I've always wanted to learn Japanese and I've finally taken the plunge. After asking around I'm currently memorizing hiragana and katakana off the bat to get the simple aspects of the alphabet out of the way. This weekend I'll be traveling to my local community college used book store to see what Japanese language textbooks the have for starters.
After I get the main part of the alphabet down, what should be my next step? I've been told to start memorizing kanji, i've been told to start working on grammar particles and syntax, and i've been told to go pick up some -more- text books because you can never have enough.
So in your opinion, where should I head from here?
Btw, I'm learning the language on my own. If it doesn't pan out there's always JR college language classes I could take, but I'd really like to try it on my own first.
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Anonymous2010-03-02 11:48
>>3 After I get the main part of the alphabet down, what should be my next step?
It's not an alphabet, it's a syllabary. And there's no "main part", all of the characters are important.
I've been told to start memorizing kanji
As an absolute beginner it's way too early for you to start learning kanji. Wait at least until you ay least know your は from your が.
i've been told to go pick up some -more- text books because you can never have enough
You'll just get overwhelmed, and if your interest in the language wanes, you'll be stuck with a huge load of useless textbooks. It's best to stick to one textbook.
i've been told to start working on grammar particles and syntax
This is really the most sound piece of advice.
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Anonymous2010-03-02 12:58
語尾は、「ぞ」と「ぜ」と言うのは、違いが何でしょうか？
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Anonymous2010-03-02 14:49
What's a good pace to learn kanji? 10 a day? 20 a day?
15 a day is a good start, and this is the schedule you should probably follow
5 in the morning
5 early afternoon
5 late afternoon
Before you go to bed, try and see if you have them all memorized. Doing this before bed allows you to retain the information more because you're doing it before you hit REM sleep. Studies have shown that people retain much more information if they study before bedtime.
Where would be a good place to study the grammar then?
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Anonymous2010-03-02 15:36
A fatal error occured!
Please post threads less often!need recent pics please nancy drew my child wifu Tracy Ryan in fox kids http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRNsLQ1OGeoPowered by Shiichan 3955 + 4chan 20080608.
Hey, /lang/,
I asked /jp/ this and they referred me to /adv/ because none of them know enough about Japanese language and culture to help me, but I got no replys on /adv/ and only trolls on /b/, so I come here with this.
I have been dating a Japanese girl for a little over a year now and I am ready to pop the question, but I know it is customary in their culture to get permission from the father first. Unfortunately, her father doesn't know any english.
So, what I am asking is how do I ask her father for permission to marry his daughter in Japanese? I know how to use an online translator, I just want to know how to ask in a respectful way, how to phase it, and what to do when asking (bow, etc.).
The Genki books teach you grammar right? So if I complete both Genki books 1-2, should I be able to move onto just learning kanji after that? I heard that Japanese grammar is pretty simple, so I shouldn't worry much about it...but maybe I'm wrong.
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Anonymous2010-03-06 7:19
>>21
So you want to complete two textbooks and still not be able to read shit? Do yourself a favor and start with kanji early.
You could try Remembering the Kanji, 1-2 hours per day for 2-3 months and all your fear of kanji will be completely obliterated. It really pays off in the long run, at least it did for me but I know it is not everyone's cup of tea.
Where did you study your kanji from? Which text books or internet resources? I'm picking up the Genki books sometime next week and currently using taekim's website to brush up on grammar and particles. Just don't know where to get some kanji!
Remembering the Kanji is a book by James Heisig. There's 3 of them but you'll only want the first one. RTK2 and 3 are a complete waste. You can get it for free in pdf format with some googling. You'll also want a SRS like Anki. As a plus Anki comes with a complete Heisig deck.
Note that RTK will not teach you any japanese at all. Only how to recognize, distinguish, and write kanji. It will also teach you stroke order, which is very important if you ever want to be able to use an electronic dictionary.
Not everyone agrees with Heisigs method though, so try it out for a while and if it doesn't work for you maybe you'll have to try something else.
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Anonymous2010-03-07 3:58
I have been studying Japanese for close to 2 years now (At the University and i'm in Japan studying right now). I have this problem where i can't seem to get a decent understanding of the word order and sentences overall. I can usually understand most of the words in the texts i'm reading right now, but i have huge problems actually understanding what the final sentence means in the end.
Does anyone have any advice on how to get better at this? Just reading stuff all the time does nothing for me as i never know what the correct meaning would be anyway. Any advice on how YOU overcame this obstacle would be greatly appreaciated.
Thanks
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Anonymous2010-03-07 5:52
>>23
Basic Kanji Book (Vols. 1 & 2) and Intermediate Kanji Book (Vols. 1 & 2) by Chieko Kano et al. are very good books to learn kanji from. Much better than that Heisig crap >>24 recommended to you (you should stay away from it as it really doesn't teach you any Japanese per se).
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Anonymous2010-03-07 6:01
>>25
I overcame it by reading a lot and so developing a sense of the language. However, one active thing you could do is analyzing sentences. A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar by Seiichi Makino and Michio Tsutsui has a section on analyzing sentences in Japanese, titled "Toward Better Reading Comprehension: Analyzing Sentences Accurately", and it has been of great help to me.
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Anonymous2010-03-07 11:15
Are there any good browser based chat games for Japanese?
Kinda like habbo etc.
If you're a methodical person you might prefer kanjidicks like I do. You can even skip the mnemonics if you're a visual learner.
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Anonymous2010-03-08 6:01
>>27
Thank you, i have the first beginner book which is amazing, i don't understand why they didn't add a section for understanding sentences in the beginners book though :S
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Anonymous2010-03-08 12:47
I'm reaching the end of the first genki book, does it cover everything needed to sit the JLPT4 exam?
I heard someone say it's good to supplement kanjidicks with something else and I think he was implying there were some errors with it. Anyone know more about that?
Would it be a bad idea to study this instead of using textbooks? I'm thinking of just reading through this guide then moving on to kanji from there instead of using textbooks that focus on mainly polite Japanese.
I'm reading through Elementary Japanese vol 1 and Genki I, but I have trouble remembering the majority of the information. If I can't apply it, as in write out the sentences or do other exercises, I forget. In the Elementary Japanese book, all I do is read read read. It's just continuous walls of text with no exercises except for writing out kanji. I take notes but it's still confusing since I'm getting bombarded with a shitload of information. I can understand the sentences just fine, but if I try to write something out myself I have no idea what to do. That's my main problem.
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Anonymous2010-03-13 9:38
>>34
The genki books are great.
My only guess is that you are going too fast.
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Anonymous2010-03-13 16:35
>>29
They keep disconnected because I only know how to talk about penises.
Got redirected here from /jp/, but I suspect there is no satisfactory answer to my question.
Is there any non-katakana way to say "programming" or otherwise refer to writing code, software design, etc in Japanese? Google translates 計画法 as "Programming", and it seems to be the common denominator in programming-related compounds, but I can't find any confirmation of it being used by itself. Alternatively, any kanji terms for programmer/developer, or other programming-related activities like 'to compile', would be appreciated. In other words, something other than プログラムする, コンパイルする, etc.
I'll fully admit this is just because I want something that will look cool that I can put on a headband or shirt (no, shame isn't a problem), not for regular conversation. I do know some Japanese (I took two years of classes... I didn't do well, but I took them), but I'm hoping there's some jargon terminology I'm just not familiar with.
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Anonymous2010-03-16 6:33
>>40
computer programming is プログラミング
there isn't a way to render it in 漢語 in japanese (計画法 means planning), but you can use chinese 程式設計 if you just need to look cool
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Anonymous2010-03-18 12:05
I'm having a bit of a problem with listening. Sometimes I hear G as N. I'll listen to the audio again and again but I can't hear even a hint of a G. I've managed to find an example: http://assets0.smart.fm/assets/legacy/JLL/audio/JW05835A.mp3
This is meant to be つぎ but all I can hear つに.
I managed to find some info on Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology#Weakening ) but it's still pretty confusing. Am I just supposed to assume that any N i hear in the middle of a word could be a G and figure it out from context or will I improve as I listen to more Japanese?
Thanks!
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Anonymous2010-03-18 21:08
>>42
You just can't distinguish nasal and non-nasal N yet...
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Anonymous2010-03-19 9:35
>>42
Hint: the Japanese "nasal G" pronuntiation is pretty similar to English -ng (like in siNG), not really like a "N".
So, if you can distinguish between "siN" and "siNG", just use that same difference in Japanese.
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Anonymous2010-03-19 11:12
>>43 >>44
OK I think I understand now. Thanks guys.
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Anonymous2010-03-21 3:21
Hello dear /lang/
I am confused with this. I don't know exactly what they mean.
行くんじゃなかったの？
行くじゃなかったの？
行くんじゃなかった？
I made the 2 latter up.
This is grammatically incorrect. You need to have a n(o) as a nominalizer there.
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Anonymous2010-03-21 7:14
I don't think I understand all the parts of that sentence.
行かなかったの？
You didn't go?
行くんじゃなかったの？
Weren't you going?
(Wasn't it the thing of going?)
Is that at least a correct translation?
Am I right that the purpose of the ん is to make go(行く) into going(行くの)?
These sentences didn't get many results in Google, but
行くのじゃなかったの？
行くことじゃなかったの？
Is it correct that you could have used 事 or の instead of ん?
I'm not thinking straight today.
I appreciate the help.
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Anonymous2010-03-21 9:01
i'm not thinking a japanese phrase can be translated without having the context
japanese is very, very context-based. possibly more than any other language
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Anonymous2010-03-21 16:58
How am I supposed to remember stroke order for 2000 kanji if I'm rarely ever gonna write them out? I know it's important to know the stroke order to look them up in dictionaries and all, but shit...I don't know how I'm supposed to remember the stroke order for all of them if I rarely hand-write them.
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Anonymous2010-03-21 17:32
>>50
Aren't there patterns? Like, put the lid on it, divide it horizontally, draw the left, fill in the sides, draw the right, complete the box? Or something like that?
Complex kanji are just mixing and matching more simple kanji. Learn the stroke order for those and you shouldn't have any trouble with a lot of new kanji. You should always check the stroke order first though just to avoid practicing something the wrong way.
W: The car engine won't start...
M: Oh? Is it the battery perhaps? Do the lights still work?
W: The car was working fine until yesterday. How could it just stop working completely all of a sudden?
M: Yeah, that sounds scary/troubling(?). But, I'd like to know wether it's the battery or not, so do the lights work?
W: Today I have to go to X so it's really troubling that I can't use my car.
M: That is troubling. So, the lights, do they work?
W: My last car never had this sort of problem. I regret ever replacing it with this car.
M: ...The lights... Do they work or not?
W: I have an appointment at X o'clock, so there is still time but as the situation looks now I'm really worried.
M: Yeah. I wonder how the lights are doing. Are they still working?
W: Huh? Sorry, I didn't hear you well.
M: Oh! I was wondering if the lights were still working.
W: How so?
M: Ah, well, the engine wasn't working right? It may be because the battery is dead but I'm not sure.
W: What?
M: Huh?
W: Hm?
M: I want to know wether the car battery is dead or not so I'm wondering if you could try to turn the lights on.
W: I'm fine with that either way(?). But if the battery is dead the lights won't work, will they?
M: No, that's what I want to know, so I want you to try to turn on the lights.
W: Are you possibly getting a bit angry?
M: No, not really.
W: You are angry, aren't you? Why?
M: I'm not angry.
W: Did I say something wrong? If I did, I apologize.
M: It's fine, I'm not angry. It's alright.
W: What is alright?
M: We were talking about the battery, right?
W: The car you mean?
M: Right, we were talking about the car.
W: Seems like I won't make it in time for my appointment with my friend.
M: Did the lights work?
W: Which lights?
M: The car's.
W: Oh, the lights in the roof turned on.
M: The roof?
W: You couldn't hear me?
M: ...No, I heard you.
W: So why did you ask what I said?
M: ...Sorry.
W: I don't want to hear your sorries, I'm in a hurry here.
M: Err, did you mean the roof lights inside the car?
W: Hold on a second, I'm going to call my friend.
M: Oh, yeah, ok.
W: Hello? Yeah, it's me. The car is completely broken I tell you.
- 8 minutes later -
W: Yeah, that's how I get it. Alright, I'll call you back.
M: Are you finished?
W: With what?
M: ...No, it's nothing. So do the indoor lights wo--
W: Hold on. What do you mean "it's nothing"?
M: Wha?
W: I don't know if you're really trying to help me here.
M: It's not a big deal.
W: But isn't helping people in trouble a normal thing to do?
M: ...
W: I thought you wanted to help me but, are you just trying to make fun of me?
M: ...
Does anyone have a source/printer friendly page for a list of Japanese particles? It seems like i could get a massive head start on learning if i knew most particles. Thanks
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Anonymous2010-04-08 8:04
>>55
thats because
行くのではなかったの？
becomes
行くんじゃなかったの？
so,のでは becomes んじゃ
more specifically,
の becomes ん and, では becomes じゃ.
also, the meaning of 〜のではなかったの？ is
weren't you supposed to (do) ~
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Anonymous2010-04-11 7:37
Is there anyone out there that can explain って for me?
if you could just type out a small list of it's different uses that would be very helpful.
I know that it can be the casual "quoting particle" but i see it used in MANY different ways all the time which is so confusing, for example:
パソコンの「Keyboard」って間違い。。。 (don't remember the rest, i read it in the "My Darling is a foreigner"-book while waiting in Tsutaya)
And the other day when i was watching TV i saw this guy running away and hiding behind a fountain while the guy chasing him sighs and says "見えてるって" i have NO clue as to why って was used there, he was clearly not quoting anyone.
Anyway, thanks in advance
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Anonymous2010-04-11 23:30
「って」→「というのは」
「って」→「といっているのに」
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Anonymous2010-04-12 1:29
>>74
I'm sorry i might be extremely slow or something but i still don't get it, i kind of understand the first example, but not the second one.
I got a new book from school today and there was a small section on って that basically just said that it can be used to indicate what the Noun is and basically provides an example and defines it. That part i understand and know perfectly fine but then it also said "って = は" which is vague to say the least, when and why does って mean は?
I've been studying Japanese for about two years now, but the vocabulary we learn in class does not help me when I decide to pick up a game or watch a fantasy anime.
Do you guys know of any good books or sites that have a good solid set of gamer / fantasy-ish vocabulary?
What's the best way to become fluent?
I can/have worked as a translator and interpretor before, so I'm not exactly new to the language but i cant seem to break away from structured speech (which Japanese people rarely use unless they have to). The skills i have are fine for official documents and other such crap but everyday speech has me stumped.
情報 - read "jôhô", with both "o"s long. Means "information".
情報処理 - read "jôhôshori". Means "data processing".
情報処理中 - read "jôhôshorichû", with the "u" long as well. Means "currently processing data".
情報学 - read "jôhôgaku". Means "informatics".
計算者 - read "keisansha". Means "non-electronic computer" (i.e. person carrying out a computation).
計算機 - read "keisanki". Means "computer" or "calculator", literal meaning is "calculation machine".
計算機科学 - read "keisankikagaku". Means "computer science".
計算機科学者 - read "keisankikagakusha". Means "computer scientist".
Hope, that helped.
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Anonymous2010-05-15 21:34
Would you approve of this copypasta, OP?
>Well, start by going to http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar and read through everything there and take notes. It will also tell you about the kana, which you should be able to learn within a few hours. The grammar part isn't the most exciting thing you can do, but it will be extremely helpful, and going through that guide while taking notes is probably the fastest way to get it down and stop feeling like a complete retard whenever you try reading something in Japanese.
>Secondly, go to http://kanji.gotdns.com/ and download Anki. Make it your goal to get through all the kanji there, and memorize them with the help of Anki. Time-consuming, but you can do it at your own pace, and when you have mastered the important ones, the language will suddenly be easy. You won't need much more vocabulary after this, other than the stuff you'll just absorb automatically since you have kanji to associate them with, so you mainly just need to get used to the language at this point. So..
>Thirdly, read. I think the ideal thing is to find an untranslated VN and use AGTH, which allows you to copy and paste anything you don't understand into a dictionary (I use JWPce as my dictionary, not really sure if it's the best one, but it works). Another option if you're not completely comfortable with the kanji are manga targeted at younger demographics, as they will usually have furigana. If you are completely comfortable with the kanji, you can just read whatever you want, you don't need suggestions from me anymore at that point.
>Those steps don't have to be followed strictly, but prioritizing them in that order will probably be most effective.
I already know the Kana, certain words and phrases, but what keeps pulling my head is the sentence construction.
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Anonymous2010-05-20 2:29
>>98
In addition to using AGTH, it's a great idea to copy down sentences you don't understand or ones you want to remember into anki, with readings and an english translation if needed. You'll pick up a ton of vocabulary this way.
Do you guys know of an equivalent to http://www.urbandictionary.com/ but in Japanese, or Japanese to English?
I try to lurk on Japanese websites but I find it hard to understand some stuff like slang, etc.
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Anonymous2010-06-01 13:28
Any suggestion on where to go after the Genki books? I have found millions of books and material for beginners, but intermediate stuff is very hard to find.
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Anonymous2010-06-02 3:40
What /lang/ can say about audio courses?
I'm listening Pimsleur now, which is quite fun, but it doesn't provide deep explanation of grammar [yet?].
For example "osake O nomimasenka?", but "osake GA nomitai desu". "を" particle changed to "が"? WTF just happened?
Does it mean like "Osake is `drinkwannable`", or what? But then, why http://www.timwerx.net/language/jpverbs/lesson8.htm uses を in similiar phrase? (Bob wa tempura O tabetai). I'm confused.
>>40
Go to amazon.jp or something and lurk how books with "programming" in title are translated.
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Anonymous2010-06-02 13:56
What's the opinion on a program like Rocket Japanese? I know that if I follow that I'm not gonna automatically end up fluent, but is it a good starting point?
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Anonymous2010-06-02 21:42
>>103
That's because tai behaves like an adjective. (or rather, it is a suffix adjective)
For example you say "tenki GA samui" - "weather is cold"
To negate tai, you say taku nai, for example "sushi ga tabetaku nai", the same way you would say "tenki ga samuku nai".
Btw. sind nomu or taberu still are verbs, "osake O nomitai" is also ok. my japanese friends say "ga" just stresses the WANT to drink a bit more, while wo emphasizes "drink" a bit more.
With Verb+tai you can use both GA and O.
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Anonymous2010-06-02 23:10
Just wondering, is AJATT (materials, learning kanji using an SRS, before moving onto katakana/hirigana) a viable way to learn Japanese?
When you are asked 'osake o nomimasenka', your answer should be simply 'nomitai (desu)'.
We tend to omit the same subject/object whenever it's possible.
'Osake ga/o nomitai desu' is redundant and unnatural.
(Note it is better to repeat a word if omission can lead to misunderstanding.)
ドーナッツばかり食べていると、豚のようになってしまう
→ You'll be like a pig if you keep eating donuts.
おまえのように太っている子は、他にいないぞ
→ No one else is as fat as you.
両親は、とても心配しているように見えた
→ My parents looked like they were very worried.
ぼくは、両親の言うように、もっと太ってしまうのだろうか？
→ I wonder if I'll really get fatter as my parents say.
ただし、下の3つは意味が大きく異なるので、覚えるしかありません。
もう、ドーナッツを食べないように（命令）
→ Don't/Try not to eat donuts any more.
ぼくは、食べないように努力したが、我慢できなかった（意思）
→ I tried not to eat but couldn't be patient.
これ以上、太りませんように（祈願）
→ I hope I won't get fatter.
Translation:
I do not recommend learning how to use ように with difficult terms such as 類似 and 推定 AS shown in >>115.
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Anonymous2010-06-20 21:36
I have a decent grasp of spoken Japanese, and now I'm looking to really hunker down and try to memorize the 1945 Joyo Kanji.
My problem with Kanji is always that I get to around 500, and then just putter out. And when I start up again, it's with a different ordering of Kanji, so I don't feel like I accomplished much.
Anyone have a suggestion for a good way to gradually learn all 1945 Joyo Kanji in one long stint over the next couple months, without relying on multiple conflicting texts with different orders?
Persian language: difficult is? Gender distinction not, verb's changing also almost rule-according-to, [said], good thing-full's word is but, this "easiness": actually "obscurity" also gives-birth-to situation: falling-in-hole becomes-possibly. Difficult sentence to becomes, one-sentence-middle at "ke" 3, 4 times also appear, which: to-what until how works-thing, confusion does thing to becomes-tends-to is. That time: verb's form and sentence-middle's "ye"'s type, that to conjunction・preposition's working at attention do let's. Carefully look at if, doubtlessly syntax see-can-comes. Studying continue, "Persian language mountain"'s summit's view fully-enjoy thing praying.
Can anyone explain when 入る is read as はい・る and い・る? Or maybe it has to do with 入る and 入り? I don't remember but I think I saw 入る in a manga with い・る furigana. I can try to look again in the manga for example sentences.
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Anonymous2010-06-21 19:34
入る is usually read as はいる.
In some phrasal verbs and fixed phrases, it is read as いる.
e.g.
学校に入る（はいる）
穴があったら入りたい（はいりたい）
恐れ入る（いる）
気に入る（いる）
郷に入って（いって）は郷に従え When in Rome, do as the romans do.
But 入れる is different.
いれる is a transitive verb meaning 'to put something inside somewhere',
whereas はいれる means 'to be able to enter'.
>>59
「何でもこの映画」とは言いません。
「何でもこの映画、タイタニックの記録を抜いたそうです」のように使います。
「何でも、この映画はタイタニックの記録を抜いたそうです」でもOKです。
英語に訳せば I hear のような感じです。
I hear this movie broke the record of Titanic.
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Anonymous2010-06-23 17:43
Xに、そろそろ出てくわって。
X being a woman, what the heck does this mean? My guess is that it means "I'm thinking of leaving X soon", is this anywhere near correct?
I'm Japanese living in Japan, but I've never heard sharberanai.
Isn't it shaberanai, deshabaranai, shaanai, shaburanai, shoomonai, saboranai, musaboranai, shibaranai, or anything like that?
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Anonymous2010-07-01 5:08
Somebody please explain the counter system used with numbers... Is there really a need to memorize the list of counters?
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Anonymous2010-07-01 8:55
There are so many units, so it is impossible to list all of them here.
Below are frequently-used ones I came up with off the top of my head:
台（dai）
Computers, TV, washing machines, refrigerators, tables, etc.
機（ki）
Planes, robots, heavy machinery, etc.
本（hon/pon/bon）
Sticks, pens/pencils, poles, cassettes, ropes, movies, bottles, etc.
A pair of chopsticks is ichi-zen, not ippon.
杯（hai/pai/bai）
Glass/cup of drink, bowl of rise/soup, spoonful of something, squids, octopuses, etc.
通（tsuu）
Postcards, envelopes
回（kai）
Times
階（kai/gai）
Floors/stories
袋（hukuro）
Bagful/sackful
包（tsutsumi）
Packages
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Anonymous2010-07-01 9:02
If you are Japanese and cannot use units properly, you'll be regarded as uneducated,
but if you are from abroad, it will be acceptable to use only 個(ko) and つ(tsu) for anything.
「個」 is used with Chinese-derived numbers (ichi, ni, san...), while 「つ」 is used with Japanese numbers (hi, hu, mi...)
1個 ikko
2個 niko
3個 sanko
1つ hitotsu
2つ hutatsu
3つ mittsu
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Anonymous2010-07-02 8:11
I have a question about HItotsu: on smart.fm and wwwjdic its pronounced as SHItotsu. Why's that? Some sort of dialect? Weird rule for numerals? Random Japanese ghoti?
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Anonymous2010-07-02 8:16
What about counters for abstract things? Like "idea", "honesty"(not very popular thing to count), colors/tones of colors?
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Anonymous2010-07-02 10:45
>>154
Is shitotsu really used instead of hitotsu on smart.fm and wwwjdic?
People with Tokyo dialect are said to be unable to pronounce hi and use shi instead, but it is limited to elderly people.
I never pronounce like that.
By the way, Gollum says "my preciousss" many times in the Lord of the Rings, which was translated as "いとしい しと" instead of "いとしい ひと".
This is because the translator tried to emphasize his /s/ sound in Japanese too.
"Shi" may be used to show that the speaker has bad pronunciation or a strange character in stories, drama, etc.
Conversely, shi is sometimes pronounced as hi.
e.g.
Huton o shiku (to spread futon)
-> Huton o hiku
Shichi (seven)
-> Hichi
These are wrong actually, but some of us do pronounce so.
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Anonymous2010-07-02 11:07
>>155
"つ" is used for abstract things like idea and opinion.
"個" is not good because it tends to be used for more concrete things.
hitotsu no kangae
hutatsu no iken
As for "honesty", I have no idea how to count.
For colors, "色（syoku）" is used.
e.g.
この製品は、4色のカラーバリエーションを取り揃えています。
This product has the variety of four different colors.
I think "色" can be used for tones of color too, but "種類（syurui）" or "種（syu）" may be better.
I'm not 100% sure though.
e.g.
10種のカラートーン
Syurui means "types", so the above example means "ten types of color tones".
I wonder how you count tones in English.
I got this email and I was hoping I could get some help. From what I can make out, this person is asking if they could use one of my pics as the thumbnail to something on niconico.
Is this correct? If so, I would like to tell them that is ok to do so and to thank them for enjoying my work. Could someone provide me with a translation for this?
Thanks.
Name:
Anonymous2010-07-04 11:40
>>158
Yes, this person seems to be asking if he can add your Suruga Kanbaru picture to his own thumbnails on niconico.
Or he may want to use the pic as his own profile image. (Sorry, I don't know much about niconico and his intension is not clear either.)
You can send him the Japanese message below if you like, but why don't you reply in English?
Hi. Thank you for enjoying my work.
Feel free to use my picture of Suruga Kanbaru.
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Anonymous2010-07-04 16:39
I have studied Japanese for a while, but barely encountered informal Japanese. The sentence:
猫は食べます。
for instance; how would I go about saying this informally? From what I understand, "-masu" form is fairly formal and not commonly used in informal speech.
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Anonymous2010-07-04 16:39
I have studied Japanese for a while, but barely encountered informal Japanese. The sentence:
猫は食べます。
for instance; how would I go about saying this informally? From what I understand, "-masu" form is fairly formal and not commonly used in informal speech.
As for your question, I have slightly misrepresented the situation. The person actually messaged me on my pixiv account. So I got to thinking that maybe they wouldn't have messaged me if they knew I wasn't so good with Japanese as I have nothing that says otherwise (e.g. most of my postings are just the character names in Japanese, nothing in my profile). So I thought that I would at least send a message back that I know they would understand as I don't know their level of English. Maybe I am over thinking this but that was my reasoning.
If you are wondering why I posted pics to pixiv it is because I had the account already (to view the full images) and I just thought I'd share what I made. It's awesome when other people enjoy what I spent hours on making.
Anyways, I never thought that I'd get messages from other users so I never bothered with my profile page. I guess I'll have to change that.
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Anonymous2010-07-04 19:30
>>160 You're right, -masu forms are not often used in informal speech.
So just drop it -> 猫は食べる。
Name:
Anonymous2010-07-05 5:10
How do I express negative potential? For example:
He can't read Japanese.
Is it:
彼は日本語が読めない
Name:
Anonymous2010-07-05 8:05
>>160>>163
"猫は食べる" is not always informal.
"猫は食べるよ" is definitely informal.
>>164
It is not clear to me what "negative potential" means.
He is not capable of reading Japanese, or he may not be able to read Japanese?
If you mean the former, your translation is right.
So I'm looking at some Kanji sheets for the first time, just trying to get a feel for how difficult they're going to be when I actually do attempt to memorize them. Ichi lists a kunyomi of ひと*つ and another source has this, similarly: ひと・つ
What I'd like to know is why can't these be written like ひとつwithout that little spacer? Is there a difference in pronunciation or is it just one of those "that's just the way it is" scenarios?
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Anonymous2010-07-06 0:30
>>167
separator shows where kanji ends and okurigana starts, so hitotsu will be written as 一つ
BTW it's kind of useful, because knowing where okurigana starts, you can tell ichidan verbs(kae*ru) from godan verbs(ka*eru).
There are some exception, but generally if you see okurigana "Xeru"/"Xiru" then it's ichidan. if Xe/xI mora is hidden inside of kanji, then it's godan.
Guys, I really need help with causative, passive and causative-passive, in a specific context where the particle に is involved. To do that, I need you to simply translate these sentences for me, please:
1. I lend money to my friend.
2. My friend borrows money from me.
3. I was made to lend money to my friend.
4. My friend made me lend him money.
5. I was made to lend money to my friend, and I don't like it.
6. My friend made me borrow him money, and I don't like it.
This all just turns into a god damned clusterfuck inside my head. This is how I would guess at it, if I had to:
1. 俺は友達に金を貸す。
2. 友達は俺に金を借りる。
3. 俺は友達に金を貸させた(clusterfucked; can't tell if it's 貸す or 借りる)。
4. Same as 3 because how Japanese works, is my guess?
5. 俺は友達に金を貸させられた。
Any help on this would be deeply appreciated. I'll say it again: I only have a problem when the particle に is involved.
As a side-question: How often do you guys convert kana to kanji when typing? Every word? Every sentence? How to Japanese people do it? I've been typing along but I'm not really sure what the most effective method is.
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Anonymous2010-07-11 23:45
>>172
Jesus christ, even the post is a clusterfuck. Here; let me try again.
1. I lend money to my friend.
2. My friend borrows money from me.
3. I let my friend borrow money.
4. My friend made me lend him money.
5. I was made to lend money to my friend, and I don't like it.
6. My friend made me borrow him money, and I don't like it.
>>173
I still don't think this is right. Those fucking verbs, man, they fuck up everything. Alright, I've thought of a new and easier way of doing this. All I need now is for someone knowledgeable (I mean it, I don't want somebody who has to use a dictionary to read what I just wrote to answer this) to answer me. I eagerly await your reply.
>>174 All I need now is for someone knowledgeable (I mean it, I don't want somebody who has to use a dictionary to read what I just wrote to answer this) to answer me.
I am Japanese.
I'm not sure if I am eligible to answer your question, but here is my translation.
1. I lend money to my friend.
俺は友達に金を貸す。
俺 → Lend → 友達
2. My friend borrows money from me.
友達は俺に金を借りる。
友達 ← Borrow ← 俺
3. I let my friend borrow money (from me/someone else).
俺は友達に金を借りさせる／させた。
俺 → Let → 友達（友達 ← Borrow ← 俺／Someone else）
4. My friend made me lend him money.
友達は俺に金を貸させた。
友達 → Made → 俺（俺 → Lend → 友達）
5. I was made to lend money to my friend (by him/someone else).
俺は友達に金を貸させられた。
（俺 → Lend → 友達）俺 ← Was made to ← 友達／Someone else
6. My friend made me borrow him money.
友達は俺に金を借りさせた。
友達 → Made → 俺（俺 ← Borrow ← 友達）
>>172 How often do you guys convert kana to kanji when typing? Every word? Every sentence? How to Japanese people do it?
It really depends on the person.
Some people type a whole sentence and then convert it to kanji in one go, but others convert every single or several word(s).
If you are using clever Japanese input software, it converts even a long sentence fairly correctly according to the context.
Even if the sentence is not correctly converted, you can select the right 文節(segment?) using the shift key + right/left allow keys.
Using the right/left keys without the shift key let you choose a 文節 next to the one currently selected.
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1752010-07-13 8:47
This is just an aside; we tend to avoid expressions like 4, 5 and 6 in colloquial conversations.
Belows are more natural than "俺は友達に金を貸させられた".
>>176 >>175
Thank you very much. I think I got it.
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Ryuuka !!o5+Uh3okxreARiF2010-07-15 4:33
Since everyone requests, and nobody really receives, I've taken the liberty of setting up a study group for everyone. To get into it, you must have Skype. And you must add me (my username is shatteredinsides). You will be added. We accept all newcomers and intermediate (hell, even expert) people learning Japanese. If you do not know Hiragana and Katakana, we shall link you to some references and great study guides. As learning the kana are essential, and should be your first step into this language.
Please join, and post your suggestions / critiques.
Thanks,
~Ryuuka
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Anonymous2010-07-20 17:00
I'm doing Pimsleur's Japanese (+ Heisig for the writing), but I need something for crunching vocabulary and verbs. What is some good, and preferably amusing (no phonebooks please), material to do this?
If it's available in Spanish or not language dependent, all the better.
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Anonymous2010-07-25 20:50
Could someone help me with the translation of this sign?
The Y-button item registration feature becomes even more convenient!
Up until this point, you could register an item to the Y-button for use without having to open the menu, but now you can use it not only for items but also as a shortcut to an optional menu screen."
Text under Pokabu's Pokédex entry
"If you check a certain checkbox in the bottom right part of the screen, it is registered to the Y-button."
Text under field screenshot
"If you press the Y-button, registered functions are displayed in a makeshift menu, and you can do things like use items or directly jump to a menu."
Screenshot text
"Pokémon Information > Ability
Pokédex > Explanation
Bag > Item"
Image 2
"Differences depending on version
-The appearance of differing locations!
In the same spot on the map, two completely different locations, "Black City" in Pokémon Black, and "White Forest" in Pokémon White, exist."
Side, under Pokémon Black logo
"Black City is an urban area with lots of buildings lined up."
Top left screenshot
"There are tons of buildings reflecting in my glasses! I feel like I'm gonna get dizzy."
Bottom left screenshot
"In this city, you can obtain anything so long as you have money!"
Underneath art of the areas
"Images of Black City (left) and White Forest (right)"
Under Pokémon White logo
"The contrasting White Forest is naturally abundant in elegance."
Top right screenshot
"The delicious air! The good-feeling wind!"
Bottom right screenshot
"That is proof that there are Pokémon living in this forest."
Trivia question: how often when typing compounds Japanese type them part by part rather then wholly(e.g. instead of typing KESA<SPACE> to get 今朝 type IMA<SPACE>ASA<SPACE>)
oira おいら — Us. From おれら.
oira does not come from おれら. it's from japanese dialect for おれ.
majisure マジスレ — Serious response, naive reply to a troll or joke. From 真面目(まじめ), "really, seriously, no kidding" and スレ.
this should be the definition for "majiresu マジレス"
kinenmakiko 記念真紀子 — Posting in a legendary thread. From 記念なスレッドで書き込み → 記念書きこ, with a portmanteau of Japanese politician 田中真紀子.
correct one is → 記念にスレッドへ書き込み.
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Anonymous2010-07-30 1:29
Is Genki worth the purchase? I've been looking to extend my knowledge of Japanese now that I've got the kana memorized and I've seen Genki mentioned a couple times. Thinking about ordering the Genki I set off of J-list but still on the fence. Can you guys vouch for the quality of this series?
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Anonymous2010-08-01 12:28
hello
iam a japanese man.
i came here so that learn to speak English.
Name:
Anonymous2010-08-01 23:14
>>190
Ehh, it's alright. I'd recommend elementary Japanese volume 1 and 2 on amazon instead. The layout is easier to follow, and the books are cheaper. The Genki books are really expensive too if you buy everything.
As in, when are they used. I'm told that "no" is the adjective and "re" is the pronoun bu that doesn't really help me. An example would be great help.
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Anonymous2010-08-02 16:54
>>193
Well I really suck at explaining things, but I'll try to help you anyway.
Kono (this thing) - Is used with nouns and stuff close to you. このぺん (this pen)
この机 (this desk)
Kore (this) - Is used when there's no noun, but is instead followed by a particle.
これは僕のぺん. (this is my pen)
It's the same thing with the others. Except for sono/sore (that) it's things near you. Like a TV across your room.
そのテレビは古いね (that TV is old, isn't it?)
それが僕のテレビだ (that is my TV)
Again, it's the same with the others except this time, it's things distant from both the speaker and listener. Like a bus stop across the street.
そのバスは速いだな (that bus is fast)
それが僕のバス (that is my bus)
Hope this helped.
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Anonymous2010-08-02 21:16
>>194
Sorry, I messed up at the last part. I meant to put
あのバスは速いだな
あれが僕のバス
ペンはカタカナで書かなければいけない。
Pen must be written in Katakana.
「速いだな」は間違い。正しくは「速いな」。
"速いだな" is wrong. Correct it to "速いな".
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Anonymous2010-08-02 23:37
>>196
Thanks for the corrections. I knew I was messing up pretty badly while writing those sentences, since I don't know how to write Japanese ones properly.
Actually what are all the different ways to say that? My favourite is なきゃ - short and sweet.
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Anonymous2010-08-08 14:11
>>200
ペンは片仮名で書けなければなりません is formal.
ペンは片仮名で書けなければならないんです is formal. The speaker is trying to convince the lister.
Others have no big difference. Use your favourite one. I usually use なきゃ too.
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Anonymous2010-08-11 0:14
Questions about pronoun "ware". Wikipedia has nothing under "notes" section. Only says that it's very formal just as "watakushi". So, what does this mean?
Name:
Anonymous2010-08-11 18:34
>>202
I think it's a kinda archaic 'I'. As I know you can hear this nowadays as 'ware-ware' [我々], from someone who is representing his company.
I find it interesting that the kanji for 'ware' is identical to the modern Chinese hanza for 'I'.
Name:
Anonymous2010-08-11 19:38
I was thinking how I could write my name in Japanese, but I can't find the name readings (afaik that's called nanori) anywhere.
My name is Miika, and it's pronounced exactly like みいか, I could only find the kanji 已 which has the nanori reading み.
Any kind of help is welcome.
Name:
Anonymous2010-08-11 20:22
>>205
I don't know if that actually helps, but I did some searching.
According to what I found, Miika is the Finnish version of "Michael", which name means something like "Who is like God?". So I guess it's "someone resembling God." So I just put the kanji of 'God', and 'resemble' together. This is either '神酷似' or just '神似'. I'm no kanji expert, but I used this method to find kanji for my name. [Gergő > Gregory > Watcher > Mamoru (well, it would be Yotogi, but I couldn't find kanji for that because I suck) > 守]
I guess this is not what you're looking for but I thought I'd share this. This link however might help you: http://www.geocities.co.jp/SilkRoad-Forest/6130/kanji/jinmei/jinmei.html
And I don't really know shit about Japanese names (not to mention foreign names in Japanese) so I just tried to find the kanji which had the nanori readings for mi, i and ka, I didn't remember that they could be formed like that as well.
Pretty neat that the kanji 神 can also be read み.
But how is 神酷似 / 神似 pronounced? Do I just use "Miika" and explain it every time or should I call myself like you read those kanji?
>According to what I found, Miika is the Finnish version of "Michael", which name means something like "Who is like God?".
Yeah, spot on.
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Anonymous2010-08-12 5:43
>>207
Yeah well, I just happened to think of this method when I wanted to find kanji for my name. In my case it was pretty easy though, as a name with the same meaning as mine already existed in Japanese.
So, I don't know too much about kanji or names either, I just depend on what I can found on the intrawebs. I don't think '神似' exist as a japanese name (at least I haven't found a name with these kanji), but according to what I can find, the onyomi of these two characters are:
神: shin [しん] / jin [じん] 似: ji [じ]
So that'd make Shinji. [しんじ]
(I think 神酷似 would be long)
Either that, or just go with Miika = 神似
Okay, so I also looked through Wiktionary and found these:
That's all I can come up with, so you might just want to select the kanjis you like the most.
You could also leave the i [い] out, so it becomes Mika [みか][美香], which is an existing japanese name. However, it seems to be a female name in Japan.
Whew... I'm no expert so there may be something I messed up, but I think I could come up with a few options for you to choose from. I hope it helped.
[+trivia (if anyone cares)]
Gergő (Gregory) means watchful, vigilatnt, so I put "care, precaution, guarding" + "to protect, to guard" together, and Lo, I have a full japanese name.
用心 [ようじん] 守 [まもる]
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Anonymous2010-08-12 9:55
みいか sounds like a Japanese name.
It didn't exist as a Japanese name in the past, but young people tend to give names like this to their daughter these days.
みか and みい are both popular names.
みか is written as 美香, 美佳, 美嘉, 実花, 美華, 未佳 and many more.
It is not impossible to read these as みいか, so this is one option.
Another option is to combine the Kanjis used for みい with a Kanji for か, such as 未依 + 香 and 美唯 + 花.
The last option, which I don't recommend you, is to use 当て字.
当て字 is to use Kanji that doesn't correspond to Kana; this means nobody can read it at first sight.
Reading 神酷似/神似 as みいか is this type of Kanji usage.
Such a strange Kanji combination is what either Japanese learners or stupid parents prefer.
Additionally, 酷 means terrible in Japanese although It seems to mean cool in Chinese.
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Anonymous2010-08-12 11:01
>>209 Additionally, 酷 means terrible in Japanese although It seems to mean cool in Chinese.
Don't tell me that すごい originally meant something positive ;)
I finished the kana weeks ago and just received my Genki I text book, work book, answer key and audio CDs. I'm a self-learner and had no trouble with the kana. However now starting to get into actual grammar, conversation and the like I'm finding it very difficult to relate what I learn to actual conversation since I've nobody around me to help practice with or listen to. A down side to self-learning I suppose; no class room environment to practice within.
Regardless, I'd like to keep trying, and I'm sure there are those of you out there who have found yourselves in a similar situation at one time if not currently. How did you over come this stride? Any advice would be great.
Right now I'm studying about 3 hours a day (since I work full time), using flash cards in order to learn phrases, syntax, grammar, etc. Not the best medium I've heard but I'm not sure what other available options there are.
Regards
Name:
Anonymous2010-08-13 13:25
>>212
I must admit I skipped most of the exercises in Genki, and went straight for the grammar and words instead.
I don't think you can do much about that so early on, except for saying words and phrases aloud when you're reviewing them.
Now that I'm done with the Genki books (and didn't find a suitable one to continue with), I started a voiced VN, and I'm checking out songs. That's because the text, voice and translation are easily available for them. I found these more helpful for the conversation skills than the dry textbook text.
If by flashcards you mean Anki, you should need nothing else.
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Anonymous2010-08-15 1:59
What are thoughts on Rosetta Stone? I've been using it for about a year now and I can hold basic conversations and (with the help of a dictionary for stroke orders) can write/ read basic sentences. For the most part, I like RS very much due to the fact that there is not a single word of English spoken in the program and I like how the program is structured so that each section uses the last as a base while it adds much new content each section. Also, it is nice that it forces you to formulate your own sentences and speak them (which is essential to learning any language.) What I don't like is how the images can be very unspecific (like it would show an image of two people standing together and talk about height while you have no clue whatsoever what they're talking about) and the fact that it teaches you nothing about writing kana or kanji. In fact, the only thing that I could find that really helped with that was the $20 JP dictionary app for my iPod touch.
>>216
They use the same format for pretty much every language, which is one reason it sucks.
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Anonymous2010-08-16 17:17
>>217
Yeah, but so far, it's working pretty well with Japanese. And at least for the purpose of getting a firm grasp on the basics of the language, I would recommend it for Japanese. Don't know how some of the other ones work as I have not tried them.
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Anonymous2010-08-16 21:42
>>218
Don't recommend it if it's the only thing you've tried.
Try Assimil or something, although it's better for Western languages.
Name:
Anonymous2010-08-17 0:07
>>219
I was referring to the other languages for Rosetta Stone. As for learning Japanese, I have RS, Pimsleur, Genki, 3 bilingual dictionaries (standard, colloquial, and a massive one that has stroke orders), a cultural dictionary, a vocab book, and a grammar book. I also have a cousin that speaks fluent JP as well as several good friends that are from 東京
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Anonymous2010-08-17 10:42
>>220
No wonder you're doing decent, you have all of that other stuff. Some retards try learning it with just RS, which won't work. You can't learn a language with any one program.
I guess RS can be alright when used with other programs, I hope you pirated it and didn't waste money on that shit.
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Anonymous2010-08-17 12:41
>>221
I think paying ~$600 for one method of learning a language (aside from 4 semesters of college-level classes) is even dumber than just using RS by itself
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Anonymous2010-08-18 15:58
I have a question about the children's game Kagome-Kagome.
鶴と亀が滑った
鶴と亀と滑った
I've seen and heard both of them used in several different instances. I think that's reason enough to believe both could be correct, but what is the difference in translation? I never fully understood the usage of と outside of "and"
>>224
Japanese...I'm not sure. I'd suggest Pimsleur and Assimil, but I really don't know what's out there for Japanese, as I have no interest in it.
Search around on the internet. Try different types and methods of learning. Also check out Professor Arguelles' youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ProfASAr
He's a megaultrasuper polyglot who knows a crapton of languages. He's dedicated his life to them. He provides reviews of many language learning courses. This nigger knows his shit.
Good luck weeaboo scum
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Anonymous2010-08-19 0:28
>>224
check through the post at >>220
Basically, that minus the RS
>>225
>weeaboo scum
This is a help thread about the JP language. Not a Japan fanboy thread. Leave that shit at the door
>>228
I knew it could also mean with but I hadn't considered it in that context. So, when the line says と滑った it is including the speaker (or perhaps, the bird)? Thanks for your input
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Anonymous2010-08-19 23:03
I'm fairly new to the language and I have a grammar question regarding subject vs indirect objects
ぼくは田中ちゃんとゲームをしています。
ぼくと田中ちゃんはゲームをしています。
Am I correct in assuming that Tanaka is the indirect object is the first sentence (I am playing a game with Tanaka-chan)
And in the second sentence, it's just multiple subjects (Tanaka-chan and I are playing a game)?
Here's one: The phrase
どうしたの？
means "what's the matter?"
What's the role of の in the sentence? Is it a nominalization?
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Anonymous2010-08-22 8:48
>>233
I usually avoid trying to decipher expressions, they might give you the wrong idea.
Also, particles like no can have lots of meanings. In this case, I'd say no is a question marker. You can replace ka with no in informal questions, it makes the question softer and more empathetic.
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Japanese2010-08-22 11:55
>>234 is right.
どうしたの？ sounds softer than どうした？.
But note that you cannot replace ka with no in the expression in >>233.
どうしたの？ ok
どうした？ ok
どうしたか？ wrong
できたの？ ok
できた？ ok
できたか？ ok
Learners of Japanese may explain better why できたか is correct and どうしたか is wrong.
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Anonymous2010-08-22 13:37
>>234 >>235
Thank to both of you! Other than the most common usages of the particles, I'm having a bit of trouble with the particles. This helped!
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Anonymous2010-08-25 0:03
So I'm just now starting to learn Kanji from multiple sources.
1) Genki I textbook
2) Tae Kim's guide to Japanese
I'm having some difficulty trying to find direct translations from Kanji into Hiragana so I know how to pronounce them. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) when looking in a Kanji dictionary I want to be going by the kun'yomi, the Japanese usage of the Chinese characters. That's all fine and dandy but sometimes there are multiple readings with a lot of the Kanji dictionaries I use and it seems confusing to me. How do I know which one to use for flash cards?
Help!
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Anonymous2010-08-25 0:22
Let's take for example 生.
There's like 51 million Kun readings for it. Should I be learning each and every reading for the specific character? Lol man, the hell did I get myself into.
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Anonymous2010-08-25 12:58
>>238
Interesting how you ask this while using Genki, this is usually a problem for the Heisig users. How do you even meet standalone kanji while using Genki?
Both readings are used.
For example 風呂 (furo) uses the on readings for its kanji.
I don't think you need to learn the readings. If you see some kanji and don't know the word they stand for, you won't be able to guess the pronounciation anyway (because there are multiple choices).
I think the best way to go is by relating the kanji to words (eg when you learn the word, learn how to write it). Genki does just this, so you should be fine. You will pick up the readings as you use them to form the words.
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Anonymous2010-08-25 18:48
>>239
To add to this, you don't need to memorize all of the readings (most of them are similar to others anyways) Find example of what would be common usage with the 訓読み and memorize the 2 or so most common. Same with the 音読み, just memorize the most popular ones, the less-common ones will be learned over time when you need them.
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Anonymous2010-08-27 6:08
I can find a bunch of kanji books that teach up to 1000 kanji.
But what am I supposed to do after that? I can't find any books that teach more than 1000. I feel limited only knowing that much, since it's elementary school level literacy.
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Anonymous2010-08-27 8:19
http://www.kanji-a-day.com/
It's geared towards JLPT students and has the stroke order diagrams for the kanji.
If you have an iPod Touch, There's an app called "Kotoba!" that's completely free and another one is "Japanese", it's $16, but has thousands more entries and animated stroke order diagrams and has vocab lists that you can create to help you study. I have tried both and "Japanese" has many more features and I use the program daily. I've had it for about 1.5 years and it just gets better with every update. http://itunes.apple.com/app/japanese/id290664053?mt=8
Read the reviews, try them
There are more websites like kanji-a-day that have all the kanji that are in common use. Just poke around a little bit and you'll find them.
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Anonymous2010-08-27 16:17
Want to learn 日本語？
Here, go in order...
1. Learn the kana (hiragana/katakana) from Wikipedia. Just study these for the first weeks until you can pretty much tell the difference between ぴ and ぬ. Pretty much, study everyday the stroke order, what they look like, and how to say them. Do 5-20 a day. Depending on how much time you have but I don't recommenced anymore. You don't need to waste money on a book for learning the kana, it really is easy...
2. Get Remembering the Kanji Part 1. Complete this book. It should take 3-9 months depending on if you do 5 a day or 20 a day..etc...
3. Learn 10,000 sentences. Either from music, anime, books, whatever. Make sure these sentences are accurate. This way so you are learning the grammar and the pronunciations for the kanji you learned in Remembering the Kanji.
>>243
>Remembering the Kanji
I have the complete volume.
Major problem is that the book has neither 訓読み nor 音読み making you associate kanji with english words. That effectively kills you ability to learn a language. You need to learn to THINK in the language.
This is the proper thought order:
田-> た -> rice field
This is what the book teaches you:
田-> rice field-> (get dictionary)-> た
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Anonymous2010-08-27 18:20
>>244
Check out that website. His way of learning the 訓読み and 音読み is by learning sentences and it just comes natural.
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Anonymous2010-08-27 19:26
>>245
I saw the website, and I saw some pretty good stuff there. There are better books for learning kanji, however. It's much better to associate the readings with the kanji without knowing the meaning at first than to associate the translation with the kanji.
I took several years of French in HS and the teacher would teach us in a non-immersion environment, relating each new word to English, and out of context.
So, when we had to speak in class, we ended up starting with the question that was in French, translating it into English in our heads, formulating an English response, then translating each word separately into French, then trying to get the grammar/ conjugations right. tl;dr, We were learning individual words, not how to think in French.
I mention this because one thing that I DID learn in HS French was to NEVER associate individual parts of a sentence to your native language when learning another language as that can only hinder your efforts.
I will look through what I have and see if I can come up with a better recommendation for a book, and when I do, I will be sure to post it here.
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Anonymous2010-08-30 5:56
Fuck RTK. Kanjidamage does the same job better. Just compare any story from RTK with
So! Now we are ready to do our mnemonic, which will help us remember the difference between the two kanji:
Each COCK in your mouth crosses your nose.
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Anonymous2010-08-30 16:52
I keep running into what looks like -te form with る directly after it instead of いる.
>>249
As >>250 wrote, お大事に is the Japanese for "bless you"
but we don't say anything after someone sneezes in Japan.
It'll be more natural to ask 大丈夫？, 風邪？, etc than to say お大事に.
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Anonymous2010-08-31 11:20
Reading Genki. They have question like "where do you go on evenings" with free answer in section about で,に,へ particles.
Disregarding these particles, what is the correct way to say that I don't go out on weekends?
Can 週末には家を出ません be used? Or maybe 週末には家から行きません?
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Anonymous2010-08-31 11:23
Can someone correct me on this? I'm trying to make a few sentences in Japanese:
"This is picture is a picture of my guitar. My guitar costs 40000 yen. I have 2 guitars that I love very much."
"Kore wa watashi no gitaa no shasin desu. Watashi no gitaa wa yonman-en shimasu. Watashi wa gitaa wa futatsu arimasu."
I'm not very confident with the last sentence, and I don't know how to include the 'I love very much' part.
omisson of the subject makes your japanese natural.
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Anonymous2010-08-31 14:43
>>252
週末には家を出ません and 週末には家から行きません are unnatural.
週末は家から出ません or 週末は（ずっと）家にいます is good.
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Anonymous2010-09-02 6:29
>>251
Yeah, it'll be more natural to say 大丈夫？, but if you don't know each other, he/she may feel strange.
This is because, as you know, in Japan, we usually don't say anything after someone sneezes.
I think the habit to say "bless you!" for somebody's sneeze came from some Christians' habit?
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Anonymous2010-09-02 12:35
>>256
Yeah, something like the devil being expelled from their soul. I know that some other cultures have something similar without the same background and was wondering if JP was one of those.
Also, out of the Japanese friends that I have, I've noticed that most say 「大丈夫？」and I hear most non-native speakers say 「大丈夫か？」Is there a certain context to use each in, is it formality, speaker preference, or something else?
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Anonymous2010-09-02 13:58
Posted my question in a wrong thread. Anyway, I need some help. I'm practicing my Japanese by trying to read some manga, and so far so good. But one I've gotten stuck with is this line
"重工の保安課長がようやくおロープ丁載したみたい十五分まえね"
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Japanese2010-09-02 14:44
>>257
「大丈夫？」 is used when you ask someone if he/she/something is ok, whereas 「大丈夫か？」 is sometimes used
to show others that the speaker doubts someone/something is ok.
大丈夫？ - A direct question.
大丈夫か？ - A direct question or an objective doubt.
Using 「大丈夫か？」 as a direct question is not wrong, but it sounds stronger than 「大丈夫？」.
It should also be noted that if 「か」 is used with polite forms like 「です」, 「でした」, 「ます」, 「ました」, etc.,
it does not sound strong at all. Rather, a polite form with 「か」 may sound slightly more formal than
a polite form without 「か」.
I guess these subtle nuances are difficult for Japanese learners to understand. This will be the reason why you hear
most non-native speakers say 「大丈夫か？」.
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Japanese2010-09-02 14:54
Without the context, It is hard to make out the meaning.
Is 「おロープ」 correct?
Misreading of 「ロープを」?
- 重工の保安課長がようやくおロープ丁載したみたい
- 十五分まえね
You have written these two like a single sentence, but
aren't these seperate sentences?
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Anonymous2010-09-02 15:24
That's how it's written in the manga, it's the very first sentence of the manga and that's how it is, all one sentence with very little context. About all I can think of is "Rope Street"?
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Anonymous2010-09-02 19:58
It's not 「おロープ」
When someone are arrest, people can say 「お縄を頂戴する」
I'm not sure my English is correct so please try to understand my English.
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Anonymous2010-09-02 23:30
I think I see what you mean, it's another way to say he was arrested?
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Anonymous2010-09-03 0:34
Anyone know what 「だったんだがな...」 could mean? There's not much context, saw it on a message board as just "PS>> だったんだがな"
I'm doing some translating work on the side right now, and the story I'm working on has a lot of "お嬢様" being thrown around. I know what it means, but I don't know how it would best sound in english. The line is "Be sure to thank the the お嬢様". Not sure if I should just translate it as "Oujou-sama" or "young Miss".
Any recommendations for a proper way to put it in english without sounding awkward.
>>269
Young mistress, lass, lady, young lady, gentlewoman, my lady, my young lady, et al ad infinitum. If you're a translator, you already know the context is going to be the deciding factor on what makes the most sense.
I seem to have messed up my japanese input, instead of typing 'su' and su showing up its now displaying characters based on what key I press, eg 'a' is 'ち'.
How do I fix this? Using the normal windows IME
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Poor English Jap2010-09-10 9:20
>>292
Japanese IME has two input mode, "Ro-maji uchi" (su -> す) and "Kana uchi" (a -> ち).
To get what "Kana uchi" is, see this keyboard layout image: http://bit.ly/9onSgr
If you can see "KANA" button in MS-IME tool bar, toggle it.
>A) I want to study every day.
in meaning "I want to study and this study should exist every day in my life"
>B) Every day I want to study.
in meaning "every day in my life I think "it will be great to study".
What about Japanese? If we'll move "every day"
私は毎日勉強したいです。 (looks like A) to
毎日私は勉強したいです。 (looks like B)
will it changes the meaning of sentence in the same way? Or there must another way like 毎日は私が勉強したいです? Or even 毎日は私は勉強したいです? actually I can't figure it out too - is it possible to have more than one topic marker は in sentence? I almost sure I saw somewhere in wild sentences with two は, though maybe mind is playing tricks on me or maybe these sentences were too complex.
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Anonymous2010-09-10 14:11
>>295
>will it changes the meaning of sentence in the same way?
The essential "meaning" of a sentence in which "私は" is either preceded or followed by "毎日" will largely remain unchanged but the potential connotation differs just as it does in English.
As per your example, "I want to study everyday" and "Everyday I want to study" essentially hold the same meaning in English, but so too does each have its own connotation. The former is the most logical and grammatically correct in English, as it follows a subject-verb-object format. The second is more convoluted and choppy but could be easily made less so with the inclusion of a comma to create a poetic-sounding pause: "Everyday, I want to study".
The examples of "毎日は私が勉強したいです" and "毎日は私は勉強したいです" operate in a similar way. Neither is absolutely "incorrect" but both are unusual in their construct and could be "incorrect" outside of an appropriate context.
For example, in "毎日は私が勉強したい", "私" is implicated as the subject, meaning "I" is wanting to be studied everyday. By itself, it doesn't make as much sense as the normal construction of "毎日私は勉強したいです". If someone were to ask you 「どうして彼女はいつもあなたの事を尾行してるか？」 (Why is she always following you everyday?), the response "毎日は(彼女は)私が勉強したい" (Everyday [she] wants to study me) would be appropriate.
Your second example (毎日は私は勉強したいです) is slightly less dependent on context and makes more sense standalone. It is certainly possible to have more than one は particle in a single sentence, but they are normally separated in clauses by conjunctions or other constructions. "毎日は私は勉強したいです" simply puts emphasis on "everyday" and "I" but could sound strange to a native speaker. Temporal nouns such as "毎日", "時々" and so on do not require a particle.
It's also important to remember that nothing can translate directly from Japanese to English, and vice versa. Everything is an estimation and each translation reserves its own connotation in both languages. Try to translate connotation is something that is very difficult.
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Anonymous2010-09-10 15:00
>>295
yes,it is possible to have two "は" in a sentence.
今日は雨は降らないだろう。
アメリカは夏は暑いの？
in these sentences, the first "は" is a topic marker.
今日は雨は降らないだろう。 As for today, it won't rain.
アメリカは夏は暑いの？ In America, is it hot in summer?
Incorrect
・私は毎日は勉強したい。
・毎日は(彼女は)私が勉強したい。（>>296 said this would be appropriate, but this is actually incorrect in any situation.)
"私は毎日勉強したくない" can mean both "I sometimes want to study" and "I don't want to study at all throughout the year".
On the other hand, "私は毎日は勉強したくない" means "I want to study but not every day".
When two topic markers are allowed, one of them is only for emphasis.
・アメリカは夏は暑い … Emphasis on "夏は". Subject is "アメリカ".
・今日は雨は降る … Emphasis on "今日は". Subject is "雨". This sentence implies it didn't rain yesterday.
Alright lads? Heh heh. Why is the topic marker in Japanese written down as は, but sounds like 'wa'? Alright man, BIG PENIS. If you could let me know, I'd appreciate it.
Why does verb change for each subject types?
I like huge penis.
Oh men, "big" and "huge" and "large" and "enormous" and my penis are so similar, do unify them to "big".
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Anonymous2010-09-12 2:45
>>302
I heard that it was read as HA long before WWII, but then some prescriptivist asshole came and said "Am I random yet? No? Then from today we will topic marker as wa.". I never bothered to check if it's true because prescriptive linguistics sucks anyway.
こんな感じかな
"It's a well known fact that what goes up must come down"
というphrase(それともproverb？)は日本人にはあまりなじみがないね。
「盛者必衰の理をあらわす」とか言えたらカッコイイ。
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Anonymous2010-09-13 20:51
中国語スレが上がったばかりだから書き込んでる
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Anonymous2010-09-13 21:04
I'd like to start learning Japanese, is there anything anyone here could recommend to get me started?
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Anonymous2010-09-13 22:33
>>318 http://www.guidetojapanese.org/
Start from the beginning. Memorize the two sets of kana first, and learn the grammar from there. Consider obtaining some Japanese books/comics with furigana to help you recognize grammatical patterns in context.
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Anonymous2010-09-13 22:39
>>318
Money to take actual classes or a Japanese friend who is willing to put up with you for countless hours. Self-study will only get you to a so far; eventually, you'll need interaction with a native speaker to move beyond squalor and into something approaching fluency.
It's hard to find decent classes in shitty cities in shitty countries. Especially if work takes out all spare time, so attending classes in the monday-friday is near to impossible. And it's hard to find friend for asocial persons. Fuck that, I'm sticking to self-study.
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Anonymous2010-09-14 12:49
>>321
If you're asocial, why the fuck are you even learning a second language? You'll definitely able to learn the basics of the language if you dedicate years, but for fuck's sake, the purpose of language is communication.
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Anonymous2010-09-14 16:00
>>321
Go kill yourself you aspie weeaboo
Save some oxygen for useful people
>If you're asocial, why the fuck are you even learning a second language?
To be precise, it's my third language.
>the purpose of language is communication.
Not really. Reading books without writing anything(I really couldn't care less about differences between handwritten and non-handwritten さ) is hardly a communication.
For note, Japan has some nice robotics related books
>Go kill yourself you aspie weeaboo
Oh look who's talking.
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Anonymous2010-09-16 16:52
>>326
Don't be a pretentious retard. Do know what the purpose of books is? Allow the break between this sentence and the next to serve as an opportunity to consider the answer to the previous question.
It's communication. The purpose of language, the purpose of writing, the purpose of reading is the communication of ideas. If you don't WANT to communicate, and instead prefer to simply consume, you're no better than a cock-sucking leech. I suggest if you have any intention use language to its fullest potential you'll learn to not describe yourself as "asocial" and in so doing prevent receiving the diatribe you so rightly deserve.
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Anonymous2010-09-16 19:04
>>326
>look who's talking
The Japan hater? I'm not a weeaboo, nor am I an aspie. My main reason for learning languages is to speak to some of my hispanic friends
Simple question but what's the slang/shortened version for:
これを何ですか。
それを何ですか。
and other similar questions like that. I've heard it used like kore nan or nan kore or something before but I can't remember from the tip of my tongue.
>>338
これ（は）何？（これ（は）なに？）
これ（は）何なの？（これ（は）なんなの？）
何これ？（なにこれ？）
何なのこれ？（なんなのこれ？）
etc.
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Anonymous2010-09-18 3:00
最後の2つは多少怒りが感じられるね。
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Anonymous2010-09-18 4:14
Once more genki related question. They have exercises to compose sentences like "本は机の上です。". One wanted sentence is "ラケットはカバンの中です。", other "カバンは机の下です。".
How to combine both sentences to say that racket is in the bag under the table? ラケットは机の下にカバンの中です?
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Anonymous2010-09-18 8:55
>>342
Prolly something like 'ラケットはカバンの机の下です'. Wait for a native, though.
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Anonymous2010-09-18 8:58
Oh wait, is that カバン as in 鞄? The kana had me thinking 'cabin'.
>>342-346
Ok, thank you. For some reason "shita no" combination looks too alien, unnatural, and artifical to me. Though google confirms that such combination exists.
I have feeling that textbooks are lying to me. And that Japanese write particles depending on their mood.
Take this title for example: 人間開発報告書.
Or take this article for example from Wikipedia:
>問題解決（英語：problem solving）とは、問題を解決する[some unknown runes follows]
I love how they repeat mondai kaiketsu.
>>358
Wakarimashita! It's international consipracy. Probably by the same guys, who decided to troll in Germany and declared that removing spaces to form Newwords is Waytogo.
and so on all equivalent and grammatically correct?
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Anonymous2010-09-21 20:41
>>366
The first is the only one that correctly conveys your message. There is a standard way of organizing sentences in Japanese, as there is in English. Also like English, if you deviate from that standard, you'll sound garbled and probably say something you didn't intend to. There is slightly more legroom when using adverbs and other parts of speech, but there is a general structure.
Non-English speakers, what can you tell about books for learning Japanese that are written in your native languages? E.g. is there any good book in German to learn Japanese?
As Russian I must say that most Russian books don't look too promising. And they are harder to read than Genki or Japanese For Busy People. They fucking LOVE to use terms like "group of the subject" in every sentence from the first page. (actually "group of the subject/subject with its adjuncts" is pretty harmless term, Russian authors love to use much stronger expressions but I'm not sure a) if I remembered that linguistics' swearing correctly b) how to translate it into English)
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Anonymous2010-09-23 22:11
Playing a Japanese Pokemon game to improve my understanding of the language (since Pokemon games don't use Kanji). Came across this:
なにを しますか?
It obviously means "What will you do?" or something, based on context and on the fact that it なに means "what" and します means "do", but I'm confused about the grammar of it.
First of all, doesn't を usually mark the direct object? What does it mean on the end of なに?
Second of all, word for word this seems to translate to "what do". How is a reader to figure out if it means "what are you doing", "what is he doing", "what will you do", "what will I do", and so on?
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Anonymous2010-09-23 23:46
>>371
Forgoing context, yes, "なにを しますか?" can mean "What will you do?" or "What do you do?"
The を particle does mark the direct object of a sentence but doesn't take on any special meaning at the end of 何(なに). It may be strange for a native English speaker to parse the sentence "What will you do?" for a direct object, but just think of the を particle as designating the subject of an action. A way to make this clearer would to rephrase the sentence in S-V-O (Subject-verb-object) format, the one most common to English. It would then become "You will do what?", where "You" is the subject, "will do" or simply "do" is the verb and "what" is the (direct) object. "何を～" is a common construction in Japanese.
-あなたは---何を作ります---か？
-What will you make?
-彼はお前のお兄さんを殺したばかりだ、---何をする---つもりですか？
-He just killed your brother, what do you plan to do?
You both correct and incorrect to translate "なにをする" to "what do?". Correct in that it "literally" means that but incorrect in that, once translated to English, it obviously doesn't make grammatical sense. Translating Japanese to English or vice-versa is more about finding the 'closest' meaning and not necessarily a verbatim translation. "What do?" will then become "What do you do?" or "What will you do?".
To establish just who is doing this doing, you need context. That may seem obvious but in Japanese the subject of a sentence isn't often required and must be implicated with context. Meaning she, he, it, or you could all be the subject of "なにをします？" but it is most certainly "you".
The sentence "what are you doing?" is slightly different and would be "なにをしているか？/なにをしていますか？", literally "what are/is (you/he/she/it) doing?
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Anonymous2010-09-24 0:36
>First of all, doesn't を usually mark the direct object? What does it mean on the end of なに?
I like to think that "nan"/"nani" in sentences like "nan ji deska"/"nani o shimaska" rather than English word "what", it acts more like placeholder for some unknown value like X in mathematical equation X + 2 = 5. Like X can be simply replaced with value 3 in equation above, nan[i] can be simply replaced with actual value:
>tenisu o shimasu [nani->tenisu, not tenisu ga shimasu]
>sanji desu [nan->san]
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Anonymous2010-09-25 6:21
What is the best way to translate なる in this sentence?
写真は良い思い出になります。
it doesn't make sense to translate it as "to become" Whatever subtle shade of meaning it carries here is wholly lost upon me.
Prob like... "I have good memories when I see the picture".
Or a more direct translation... "The picture makes my memories become good". So the "to become" part is in there.
>>374
It makes entire sense to translate "naru" as "become":
"The picture will become a good memory (in the future)".
"(These/those/etc) pictures will become good memories".
"良い思い出になります" literally means "become good memories". Add the topic of "写真は" and you have a sentence that makes complete sense. This isn't that difficult of a sentence.
Japanese katakana chart and katakana table. Katakana script is used to write words, which are not a part of Japanese language, Katakana alphabets are mainly used for foreign language words.
>>379
Picture of katakana table and romaji all over the site?
I'd barely tolerate picture of hiragana table only if it would show stroke order and difference between handwritten and printed kana.
Also somebody should tell the author that installing normal unicode fonts is not that hard in nearly all of modern operating systems.
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Anonymous2010-09-28 3:53
Moji no benkyou (1) is a Windows software that helps you study Japanese characters (Hiragana and Katakana).
>>381
...I think most people who would be likely to visit a "Japanese Help" thread on 4chan would do so for something more complex than the basic alphabet they should already know in order to understand anything further.
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Anonymous2010-09-28 17:06
What is the very best way to learn Japanese that doesn't involve college or books? Assume money is not an issue.
Extremely good experience. I'd do it again in an instant (in fact, I'm prob gonna do it again this summer). There are two classes, one for speaking (grammar, vocab, etc.) and one for writing (you will learn both phonetic alphabets). There's 6 different levels, and they test you at the beginning to place you. You also get field trips to some cool places... including Kyoto and Himeji.
It's amazing what you can learn in one month when you're actually there experiencing it. It would take 5 years at least to learn what I learned in a classroom here.
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Anonymous2010-09-29 1:58
>>387
...people can become nearly fluent in 5 years time... a month of intensive study won't account for that amount of time.
But anon asked for "the best" way to learn, and I don't think you're trying to say that studying in a classroom is better than going over there. Also, a trip abroad would compliment anons studies over here and likely put he/she ahead a few levels from where they were before.
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Anonymous2010-10-01 11:56
noob kanji question, I'm basicly learning them as they appear in words e.g. If I was studying vocab and learnt that 学生 is student, I'd memorise that those 2 kanji together mean student and then break it down and learn the readings of those 2 kanji separately, then move onto the next vocab word and repeat the process.
So, am I doing it the right way?
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Anonymous2010-10-01 13:33
>>390
That works. There's no "right way", just whatever works for you. As long as you make sure you don't confuse the readings, the method doesn't really matter.
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Anonymous2010-10-01 13:49
英語を話せる人から質問がある：
「彼はいきなり自身を無くしたようだ」とは意味を成しますか？
目的の英訳は「It appears that he suddenly lost confidence」の意味を探している
If a sort of innocent girl in a seinen manga talks about her crush, and says 「喋るだけで変な汗が出たり」 does that mean what I think it means? She's getting wet? Or is my mind just in the gutter.
「雪子はご飯を食べている間テレビを見ていた。」 This sentence makes perfect sense. Yukiko WAS watchING TV, past progressive.
However, 「友達が今日来ると言うことをすっかり忘れていた。」 is translated in ADoBJG as "I completely forgot the fact that my friend is coming today."
"Forgot" is of course is past tense, not past progressive. It doesn't even make sense to say "I was completely forgetting that my friend said he was coming today." Except maybe in the larger context of "When I promised my mom that I would help paint the living room, I was completely forgetting the fact that my friend said he was coming over today." That's the only scenario I can imagine that working in, so what's going on here?
To illustrate and belabor the point, if you were to say 「彼は死んでいました。」 there is a huge difference between "He is dead." and "He is dying." Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Anonymous2010-10-07 0:04
>>401
In the example of 「彼は死んでいました」, there is a large difference between how some actions or states are viewed in Japanese. Take for example 「結婚する」.
To say "I am married", the present progressive is used: 「私は結婚しています」. It would obviously be incorrect to translate this in a direct way as "I am marrying". Likewise, the sentence: 「隣人の犬は死んでいる。」 does not say "My neighbor's dog is dying" but rather "...is dead". In the past progressive 死んでいた is translated as "...was dead".
I can't speak for the exact reasons but, in a way, the present or past progressive form sometimes describes actions or states which aren't thought to be properly "completed" in a certain understanding. I would focus less on trying to make a verbatim translation from Japanese to English by tacking "ing" onto any te-iru constructions you see and instead refocus on how to get a general estimation.
I've personally seen the Japanese past progressive of some verbs translated in the English perfect verb tense (a decision with which I usually agree). Your sentence would then become "I had completely forgotten that my friend was coming today". Though in English "had forgotten" is seen as perfect, not continuous, you can hopefully begin to tell how it might work as a past progressive action in the same sense as marriage and death. If not, take it with a grain of salt.
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Japanese2010-10-07 12:06
忘れている
結婚している
死んでいる
These are never progressive but are always states.
死んでいる means being dead.
Dying is 死にかけている.
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Anonymous2010-10-08 10:45
Hello all, i have a question regarding japanese grammar! I just started 2nd year at university and i just came across this expample (Note, i`m already starting homeworks for practice, lessons will start next week):
１） 明日宿題をします ＞ 宿題は明日します。
２） ここで靴を脱いで下さい ＞ ？？？
Ok so, what`s the difference in example 1?
Thanks all.
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Anonymous2010-10-08 11:11
>>405
What's the purpose of the exercise? I can't imagine a scenario where 「宿題は明日します」 would be more appropriate in a dialogue.
If you want to follow a similar pattern for the second sentence, it'd likely be something to the effect of 「靴はここで脱いでください」.
1. I've got 国境, just can't figure out the 3rd kanji.
2. No clue, I can't even get the radicals right. It's really pathetic.
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Another Japanese2010-10-09 22:36
>>405
Not having got any expertise in teaching Japanese, I can't assure my thought is right but here is an answer of mine.
To begin with, a noun followed by "は" doesn't make a significant part of a sentence. It (almost) always makes only a complement.
Therefore, the backbone of the sentence would remain intact even if you eliminated the noun followed by "は" from the sentence.
Then, "宿題は明日します" arguably is a reply to a question like "When will you do your homework?"
If so, "Tomorrow." or "明日します." is a sufficient answer to the question.
However, "明日宿題をします" probably is a reply to a question like "What are you going to do tomorrow?"
To answer this question, in contrast, a noun followed by "を" could never be eliminated from the sentence because it is itself the backbone of the sentence.
As a result, in turn, an adverb "明日" turns into a complement of the sentence.
Your reply this time will be like "I'm gonna do my homework." or "宿題をします."
All of my knowledge is based on a thin paperback:『日本語という外国語』（荒川洋平、講談社現代新書）
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Another Japanese2010-10-09 23:11
>>410
I think they're Chinese.
I've never seen both of them.
405 here. Guys really thank you for the perfect explanations! Really simple and clear. Now i understand eheh thanks again, anons!
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Anonymous2010-10-10 12:57
>>410
If I'm not mistaken, Chinese 线 and 敌 are Japanese 線 and 敵.
When you can't find a certain kanji it's not always your fault, it can be (as >>412 pointed out) a (simplified) Chinese hanzi. You can use a site like www.nciku.com to enter it. This will give you the traditional character which usually will hint to the kanji.
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Anonymous2010-10-10 16:15
Something bugs me.
Why Japanese lang STILL USES Han characters ("kanji")? They made sense in Chinese, but Chinese* is as dead as Latin. And Japanese isn't even a Sinitic language!
(* yes, Chinese is dead - before argue with me, Mandarin is NOT Chinese, as Italian is NOT Latin.)
Wasn't just stiking to hiragana or hiragana+katakana? Han+Japanese doesn't make fucking sense.
1. Culture
2. It's difficult for people who are fluent in Japanese to read Japanese without kanji, because they use the kanji to understand what the word means. Kanji all have hieroglyphic value.
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Anonymous2010-10-11 1:20
>>416
It's not the language. It's its WRITTEN REPRENSATION.
>>417
The "umbrella term" is Sinitic languages. They aren't mutually intelligible now, so they aren't dialects. And their parent language - Chinese - died about 1000 years ago.
Calling them all "Chinese language" is like call German, Scandinavian and English just "Germanic language".
learn2learn faggot.
>>419
1. I agree that Hanzi is part of Japanese culture, no doubt, but culture isn't something untouchable, it's something that you change and grow.
2. Things can be made slowly, like obsoleting first the least common Hanzi and, in about 50 or even 100 years, replacing them all with hira/kata.
And note that they have 100% hieroglyphic value only in Japanese. Most of them have a meaning and a rhyme radicals - rhyming in Chinese, not in Japanese.
419 here.
It might happen... but if it does, it certainly shouldn't be a human initiative... as you said, culture changes and grows... by itself. Your point of view in this matter is ethnocentric, as you're viewing a culture that is not your own from the outside and judging it. Ask any Japanese, and 99% of them will tell you that they have no intention of getting rid of Kanji any time soon. Before Hiragana and Katakana were developed, Kanji were all they had. For what your proposing (phasing out Kanji) to even be an idea worth glancing at, it would have to be considered a 'social problem' by enough Japanese so that they'd start a movement to do just that. Until then, Kanji are here to stay.
Also, I'd like to point out for 416 that Kanji are part of the Japanese language... words written are as good as those spoken.
Also, I'd like to point out that they're called "Kanji" in Japanese. "Hanzi" is Chinese.
>>421
I call them "Hanzi" only because I'm used with it. Kanji, Hanzi... both are OK to me.
Maybe I'm being speakcentric, lol, since for me there is no "written language" - it's about representing a spoken language. And in this view, since moraics suits Jap phonology better, are easier to learn [even for natives - Ruby characters exist for a reason :D], well, people could just... naturally stop using harder kanji.
But no, I'm not being ethnocentric... I would be if defending some Latin-Japanese alphabet, or even "use an alphabet". I even see Latin characters in Japanese text as shitty insertions.
>>422
Well, lots of English vocabulary was created from Latin vocabulary. Yet, I don't see anybody using Latin WORDS to write proper Germanic words [somewhat equivalent of using Chinese characters to write Japanese vocabulary].
As an example, it's like writing
"I'm going aedibus hodie and oluidabo all that merda."
And still pronouncing like
"I'm going home today and I will forget all that shit."
And you know, becomes difficult to read only because you're used with it. If you were used to hiragana-only, Kanji would be hard, too.
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Anonymous2010-10-11 15:46
>>424
Obvious troll is obvious.
Want to disagree? Go on! Want to call me names? Miseriae tuae rio, asine.
>>431
Just calling names, with NO argument, is a shitty-style failed taunting tentative, so it's low-level trolling.
About Latin>English vs. Chinese>Japanese: it DOES sense.
A spoken language (Eng, Jap) borrows lots and lots of words from a literary, old but prestige language (Lat, Chin), its writing system (Latin alphabet, Chinese characters). This writing system doesn't adapt well to Eng, Jap, but its use goes on for enough time that people just resist change.
The analogy works. Perfectly. Everyone can see it (except maybe you).
And when the analogy stops working, I make my point... alphabets, syllabaries, abjads, etc. are much more flexible than logograms, so English can use Latin alphabet to write non-Latin words like "wind" in a way that makes [some] sense in English, instead using "uentus".
This doesn't work nor with Han characters in Jap (Kanji). 風 [wind] in old Chinese (and, to some extent, Sinitic languages) can be more or less deconstructed in 凡+虫 [phonologic+semantic]:
Cantonese - 風 fung1, cf. 芃 pung4, 鳳 fung6
Mandarin - 風 feng1, cf. 芃 peng2, 鳳 feng4
Now, let's see with Japanese:
Japanese - 風 ka·ze, cf. 芃 sa·ka·n, 鳳 hô
(NOTE: please correct any mistake I made.)
See? In Japanese, the phonologic "hints" (rhymes) just doesn't work. This could be worked around, using a rhyme radical for -ze words, other for -kan words, other for -ô...
But this still is insatisfactory, since Japanese uses mostly (C)V(n) syllables, no other contrast like tonemes or etc. Japanese phonology is the ideal type to use... syllabary. Like hiragana, it spawns for some reason!
And this would already bring "oooohhhh the change it hurts!", much more than just sticking with hiragana.
>>434
I don't speak in an "illogical" way.
In my point of view, you WRITE in an "illogical" way ;-)
I am fully aware that I'm no native Japanese speaker, and if it's about changing or not, who must decide are native speakers, not me.
I am JUST discussing this as someone who studied enough about Linguistics and language to see through the traditions and use the reason.
And, in my humble point of view, tradition works as a rope. It can took a person out of a hole, or can hang the same person by the neck.
Think about all the time you used to learn the zyôyô. Now, think you could used it instead to learn literature. Grammar. Writing poetry. etc.
>>435
I know what you mean, but nevertheless Kanji can't be disconnected from Japanese as long as Japanese is Japanese.
Without Kanji, you can't tell the words apart which have a same pronunciation in common and unlike English, Japanese have tons of them (they were mainly created in Meiji era as translations of western words.)
If Kanji disappeared from Japanese, those words would disappear too because they'd become too confusing ones to use.
If that happened, Japanese vocabulary would be completely reconstructed and the language composed of the new vocabulary would be no longer Japanese but a new language.
>>435
How hard is it for you to understand? Fuck you
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Anonymous2010-10-13 16:41
>>437 Without Kanji, you can't tell the words apart which have a same pronunciation in common and unlike English, Japanese have tons of them (they were mainly created in Meiji era as translations of western words.)
In Portuguese, we do this with mute letters and accents. So, while sounding the same, "hora" [hour] and "ora" [he/she prays] are still different. "Há" [exists, have], "a" [the, f.] and "à" [to]. This kind of thing can be adapted to Japanese, if the homophones issue is pretty serious...
>>439
>You're an idiot, just like I said. That sentence means:
>"Saying 'It's just... illogical' is the most illogical thing"
Am I the idiot??? Am I?
I think Google Translator is the idiot here :D
>>440
How hard? Depends how messed is Google translation.
"Fuck you"? You've been fucked, liked it and even recommend it, right? LOL. But unlike you, I'm straight.
(BTW, it's funny see serious people discussing seriously and childish retards raging in the same topic...)
>>441
437 here.
Well, you mean"rite" and "write" and "wright" in English, right? (also,"right")
It seems like a good way to avoid homophone confusions, but you're underestimating how much Japanese abounds with homophones.
You know, unlike English, Japanese has a desperately poor phonological system, which consists of 50 kinds of moras, and its insufficiency of phoneme has provided Japanese with infinite homophones.
There is an INFINITE number of them. I don't need to list examples because almost every single word composed of 4 moras has at least one or two homophones.
Your idea may work as far as it is applied to pre-Meiji Japanese, though.
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Anonymous2010-10-18 12:35
Hesitant bump.
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Anonymous2010-10-18 13:52
>>446
Yeah. I'm illiterate in Japanese, no shame in this.
I "only" speak Portuguese, English, French, Latin and bits of Arabic and Russian (Mandarin doesn't count since it's only a tiny bit). And have some Linguistic formal studies, too.
(I'll just pretend you didn't an "argumentum ad hominem" fallacy...)
>>449
This is another reason why I compared with Portuguese and not English... Port's phonotactics [(C)(r)V(s,r,l)are only a bit laxer than Jap's].
I really like Toe's music, and I was wondering what some of the song titles mean in English. I figure there's got to be a good few of you speak the language, so if anyone could translate, I'd be very grateful.
Anyway, here are the song titles.
>Hangyaka Suru Fuukei
>Kodoku No Hatsumei
>Mukougishi Ga Shiru Yume
>Yoru Wa Akeru
Thanks for any help anyone can offer.
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Anonymous2010-10-21 16:08
>>457
As far as I can tell, "hangyaka" isn't a word. It's likely "hangyaku", meaning "treason" or "rebellion".
>Hangyaku Suru Fuukei
反逆する風景
Treasonous Scenery or Rebelling Scenery
>Kodoku No Hatsumei
孤独の発明
The invention of loneliness
>Mukougishi Ga Shiru Yume
向こう岸が知る夢
The Other Side of the River is a Dream I Know
>Yoru Wa Akeru
夜を開ける
Open the night
I'm slowly reading genki and playing with exercises.
Page 145. Exercise B about て form of adjectives.
Task is to form sentence with given words.
classes: long & not intersting
AFAICT this will be クラスは長くて、面白くありません。
Questions:
1) in this case -くありません negates only 面白い and does not negate 長い?
2) how to invert order adjectives to say that classes are not interesting and long? Negate adj-i with -kunai and then change -i in kunai to -kute like クラスは面白くなくて、長いです。?
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Anonymous2010-10-24 12:27
１）If I remember correctly, ありません will not necessarily apply to both 面白い and 長い because the clauses are broken with くて. Although with that construction, you are essentially linking the two adjectives together to say "long and boring", so it could still apply. It be better to create a clear distinction by using a contraction.
クラスは長いけど面白くありません。
The class is long but not interesting.
クラスは長いから面白くあるません。
The class is long so it's not very interesting.
クラスは長いので面白くありません。
Because the class is long, it's not very interesting.
2)I'm pretty sure you're correct.
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Anonymous2010-10-24 14:24
１）you're correct.
2)you're correct.
or you can say ”クラスは面白くないし、長いです。”this is more natural.
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Anonymous2010-10-24 18:14
以下の英訳は正しいかどうか教えてくれませんか？
１a）次の打ち合わせにもっと適当な書類をもって来られませんか？
１b)Can you bring more appropriate documents to the next meeting?
２a)一般のアメリカ人の場合には漢字を暗記するのが複雑な事柄と言われています。
２b)It is said that memorizing kanji is a confusing matter for the average American person.
If anyone likes the video enough to want to help, send me an email--ccriztoff at gmail--and I'll get you a line by line transcript.
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Anonymous2010-10-25 8:35
>>467
Are you talking about an actual audio track or just subtitles.
If it's the latter, I'd be willing to give it a shot. I'll say it now though: much of this just isn't going to translate well.
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Anonymous2010-10-28 22:22
Although it's more /a/ related but I don't think I can get answer there:
In certain episodes of K-on, Mio said "papa" and "mama" but after she said that she looked embarrssed and soon correct her word to "otousan" and "okasan", why? I do know the word "papa" somehow relate to "enjou kousai" and "mama" might has something to do with prositution but isn't calling your parents "papa" and "mama" quite normal these days.
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Anonymous2010-10-29 2:49
>>469
I'm no expert but "papa" and "mama" would be the equivalent of saying Daddy and Mommy. Something only a little kid would say, right? She probably let it slip because that's what she still calls them in private but was afraid that others would see her as immature so she corrected herself.
And if you wanted to you could have posted this in the k-on general. I'm sure you would have gotten an answer because I would have answered you there.
It's from a manga I've been working on translating for a project, but this line has really got me stumped. It's the only one I've really had trouble with. Specifically, the "ほうから" part.
>>472
First, "の ほう から" means "doing something to someone earlier than he/she does it to you."
Then, there must be ellipses after "ほうから."
For example, "なぜ私のほうから（彼を/彼女を）誘わなければならないのですか？"
This means "Are you kidding me? Why do I have to invite him/her first?"
>そんな事言ってたらいつまでたっても仲良くなれないじゃないです。
I think you are misreading.This sentence doesn't make sense.
Aren't you overlooking "か" which is at the end of the sentence? If so, this would translate as follows:
>そんな事言ってたら
If you keep saying such a thing,
>仲良くなれないじゃないですか
you will never be friends with him/her/them
>いつまでたっても
forever, will you?
>>474
I think you mean "だったんだろう."
You can't translate it without context.
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Anonymous2010-11-02 8:29
>>474
>だったん
past tense plain copula
>だろう
"don't you think? right? isn't it that...?"
Depending on the context, it basically means "I know, right?" or "That was the case, wasn't it"? etc.
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Anonymous2010-11-02 8:53
>>472
In this usage, "私のほう" might be thought of literally as "from my side/direction", or generally as "from the way I see it" etc.
なぜ私の方から（彼・女に）そんな事言ってたらいつまでたっても仲良くなれないじゃないです（か？）
then becomes
"Why is it that I feel whenever you say such a thing (to him/her), you'll never be able to get along?"
Hey guys, I've been accepted to study abroad in Sapporo next year and want to beef up my Kanji before I head over. Can any kind anon recommend a Kanji workbook with a respectable amount of characters and readings? Thanks
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Anonymous2010-11-03 7:38
Can anyone explain me what the point of learning several reading of kanji outside of words? So you can brag "I cleva! This word can be read as umashika"?
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Anonymous2010-11-03 10:13
>>480
That's simply how the Japanese language evolved; there's no intrinsic "point" of learning kunyoumi and onyoumi outside of being able to read the 2 or 3 ways a character can be pronounced relative to context. Even the Japanese themselves understand this to some extent.
>>25
You have very basic grammar issues, your teachers sucked and their curriculum probably sucked too. Personally I learned with the Japanese: The Spoken Language books. They catch heavy flak for use of romaji, and odd romaji at that, but in terms of teaching proper grammar they are simply the best books out there, period. You need to start from the beginning all over again, grammar wise.
>>492
夏の間、アリたちは冬の間の食料をためるために働き続け、キリギリスは歌
を歌って遊び、働かない。
During the summer, the ants continued to accumulate food for the winter but the grasshopper sang songs, played, and did not work.
やがて冬が来て、キリギリスは食べ物を探すが
見つからず、アリたちに頼んで、食べ物を分けてもらおうとするが、
At last, winter came, and the grasshopper searched for food but none was to be found. He begged the ants and tried to get them to divide the food but
「夏には歌っていたんだから、冬には踊ったらどうだ?」と断られ、キリギリス
は餓死する。
he was refused with the ants saying "You sang during the summer so how about you dance during the winter?". The grasshopper starved to death.
This transcription doesn't really follow the English at all but it communicates the message. If you want a more literal translation, I can work on it later.
That can already work. Thanks a lot for your translation.
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helen of troy2010-11-09 1:15
been learning basic japanese for a little while and i want to tell a close (male) friend informally "i miss you".
i figured this would be "anata ga inakute samishii yo"
questions-
can i say "yo" or does it have to be "desu yo"
is "yo" even appropriate? i chose to use it because it emphasizes my feeling, plus the situation is not formal
is there a less formal but still appropriate way to address him rather than "anata"
finally, how do i write this out in japanese? i know most hiragana but nothing else.
thanks.
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Anonymous2010-11-09 8:50
>>500
Yes, です is not necessary and ending a sentence in よ is entirely possible, just very informal. If this is a close friend, eschewing です ends up making more sense.
よ works to communicate emotion but if you're a female, わ can be used to the same affect. As for a less formal あなた, if you're male (or want to sound like one) きみ can be used. One of the most convenient aspects of Japanese is that when you don't know what to call someone, you often don't need to call them anything through implication. いなくて寂しいよ or is shorter, informal, but emphatic and warms up to "Man, I really miss you" though it literally translates to "(You are) not here and I'm lonely". （あなたが）いなくてさみしいよ in all hiragana.
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Anonymous2010-11-09 12:05
Subject is often omitted in Japanese, but it is not very natural to omit あなたが in this case.
あなたがいなくてさみしいわ sounds a little old-fashioned.
Few girls use わ these days.
Note that the phrase is not as casually used in Japanese as 'I miss you' in English.
It is almost only used when you have special feelings for the person.
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a Japanese2010-11-09 13:59
>>500
I think you should be formal when you use a foreign language.
Informal language used by a foreigner sounds kinda strange.
So, I think "desu" is the most appropriate one, although "yo" isn't completely wrong.
(However, "desu yo" is incorrect. I can't explain why, though. [Maybe it's my intuition.])
>a less formal but still appropriate way to address him rather than "anata"
You can substitute the recipient's name for "anata."(In order to be formal, you should add "san"or"kun(君)" to the end of the name. "Kun" is less formal.)
For example: アノン君がいなくて寂しいです。
>>502
I too think "いなくて寂しいよ"is not correct. (In the first place,"あなたが" is not the subject of the sentence.)
In the sentence, the subject "わたしは" has already been omitted, so you can't omit any more constituents from it.
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Anonymous2010-11-11 9:41
>Informal language used by a foreigner sounds kinda strange.
As if formal does not sounds strange, Mister Anonymous.
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Anonymous2010-11-11 12:58
>>504
If you want to learn a language, being able to so speak both formally and informally is more than a necessity; its vital.
Speaking formally is obviously more important, especially in Japan, but if you're unable to understand or work with informal language, you're nowhere near fluent.
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Anonymous2010-11-14 5:44
hey guys, was wondering if you knew a good way to learn written japanese? just get the hiri/kata stuck well in my head and perhaps a little kanji
i heard the best method for learning is with this program called jmemorize.. i found it but the program seems to be empty and i cant find the cards that go with it, would anyone know where to find them?
English: "I didn't think it would become so cold today!"
日本語：「今日はこれほど寒くなると思わなかったよ。」
English:"There's no way he can be full, he didn't eat anything but salad."
日本語：「彼はサラダしか食べなかったし、おなかがいっぱい訳がないだろう。」
よろしくお願いします
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Anonymous2010-11-26 12:08
日本語：「今日はこれほど寒くなると思わなかったよ。」
Perfect.
日本語：「彼はサラダしか食べなかったし、おなかがいっぱい訳がないだろう。」
Almost correct, just insert "な".
日本語：「彼はサラダしか食べなかったし、おなかがいっぱいな訳がないだろう。」
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Anonymous2010-11-26 20:38
I have always heard 凄い for amazing but the definition says terrible too. I'm guessing this is just a context word and just depends on the situation right?
Name:
Anonymous2010-11-26 20:59
>>525
Yes.
凄い just says "very xxxxx(something good/bad or else)" for amazing.
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Anonymous2010-11-26 21:37
yes.
それはすごいね。may mean both amaziing or terrible.
if you emphasizes a terrible side, you can use ひどい instead. それは酷いね。
すごい is used as either a adjective or an adverb.
As a adverb, すごい is almost equal to 'very much'.
Thank you very much.すごく（とても）感謝しています。
I am very much dissapointed.すごく（酷く、とても）がっかりしました。
とても is more polite way.
As a adjective, 'awesome', i think.
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Anonymous2010-11-26 21:51
I'm back. Is this translation correct?
"Basically, writing English essays is mostly a matter of arrangement. That is to say, organization is a more essential point than the details of the essay itself. Even if the professor can see a student's logic, even if he is able to understand it, if the structure of the essay becomes disorderly, the grade will probably fall. Because of that, you must make a simple and firm thesis statement and should focus on the the development of the structure of the essay."
>>530 (I'm not 529)
>どっちの言葉が当然かどっちの言葉が不自然かよく理解出来ません。
Use Google. (Enclose your search phrase with double quotes.)
The number of the results will indicate the accuracy of the phrase.
For example:
"論理を見える" 5 results
"論理をつかむ" About 118,000 results
"論理を理解する" About 447,000 results
"論理を理解できる" About 719,000 results
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Seven2010-11-27 19:30
Hope someone can help me:
What does this phrase mean: "Kimi te yappa omoshiroi yo ne."
Domo Arigato ;)
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Anonymous2010-11-27 19:48
>>532
As suspected, you're interesting. (or funny)
Hey guys, I am doing some homework, but I am completely at a loss as to what these two sentences say. Can someone help me translate what they are saying. Thanks!
1. もし私が二人いたら、いろいろなことができると思います (I think it means if you could be two people what do you think you could do)
２．もし時間がたくさんあったら、いろいろなことができると思います。 (If you had a lot of time what do you think you could do)
Hey guys, I am doing some homework, but I am completely at a loss as to what these two sentences say. Can someone help me translate what they are saying. Thanks!
1. もし私が二人いたら、いろいろなことができると思います (I think it means if you could be two people what do you think you could do)
２．もし時間がたくさんあったら、いろいろなことができると思います。 (If you had a lot of time what could you do?)
Name:
Anonymous2010-11-28 15:26
>>536
If I was two people, I think I could do various things.
If I had a lot of time, I think I could do various things.
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Anonymous2010-11-28 15:53
>>536
Your interpretations are correct but these sentences aren't questions that require a direct or indirect answer from anyone. The use of the たら form is primarily suppositional, meaning "if/when A then B" and, in the case of these sentences, is self-contained.
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Anonymous2010-11-29 7:12
I'm taking the JLPT N4 (basically, the old level 3) next week and I was wondering how much harder the grammar portion is than the N5 (old level 4).
Any tips or advice?
Name:
Anonymous2010-11-29 10:12
>>539
From what I've seen and heard, there's a discernible difference between every portion of N4 and N5, except for maybe the listening which usually tests your critical thinking and comprehension of everyday situations as opposed to specific grammatical constructions. That said, N5 is by all means the most basic of basic Japanese. If you're familiar with the grammar points listed here http://dev.jgram.org/pages/viewList.php?lv=3 , then your chances of passing are decent.
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Anonymous2010-11-29 10:47
Does anyone know anything about ~tate grammar?
Thanks
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Anonymous2010-11-29 19:55
Whenever I read Japanese, I read it in a voice that sounds no where close to mine. It's like some generic old Japanese guy's voice. This is really annoying me because I want to read Japanese in my voice like I read it in English.
Is the only way to fix this to actually SPEAK it? I've never actually spoken Japanese, all I do is write and read. Maybe because I've never heard myself speak it I read it in another's voice? I don't have anyone to speak with and I'm a embarrassed I'll sound like I'm talking like an anime character.
Or will I naturally start to read it in my voice the more I keep reading?
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Anonymous2010-11-29 20:12
>>542
>Is the only way to fix this to actually SPEAK it?
Not in the sense that you'll need to have endless conversations with a native speaker but you will need to LISTEN to it and your own voice.
Simply learn to correctly pronounce the basic sounds in your natural voice (both out loud and in your head) and then learn the inflections of a native speaker. I'd recommend some sort of listening practice for this so you don't graduate from "old man" to "high school girl".
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Anonymous2010-11-29 20:53
>>541
Do you have some context it's used in? If so I may be able to help, because there's a couple different things -tate may be.
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Anonymous2010-11-29 20:53
I recently decided to finally learn Japanese like I've wanted to do ever since my weeaboo days. My wapanese days may be behind me, but my desire to learn the language certainly isn't. I've already been pawing through my old textbook from some dumbass throwaway summer course for teens from back when I was a little "lol I'm an otaku kawaii kawaii kawaii!" shit, but does anyone have any tips? I might just be asking for nothing here, just wondering if anyone has anything to add that might help me learn better. I'm planning on going to Japan at some point and I know you need about 30 hours a week of linguistic input to really truly solidly learn a language, anything else I should know?
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KILL YOURSELF WEEABOO2010-11-29 22:40
>>545
Yeah, taking a huge dose of cyanide helps learning
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Anonymous2010-11-30 5:51
>>545
Regard your trip to Japan as part of your learning process, because it is. If you ever want to speak, that is. I hope you plan on staying there longer than some bullshit two weeks or something.
As for resources, Anki, Genki, Heisig... etc. Search 3000ebooks for pdf copies of the latter two, Anki is a free flashcard program (make sure you learn how to use the Japanese plugin when you make your own decks) and there's pre-made decks for most mainstream Japanese textbooks (including Genki, and also Heisig though that's not really a textbook).
And for the love of God don't let anyone convince you that watching anime is good practice.
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Anonymous2010-11-30 10:15
>>547
＞don't let anyone convince you that watching anime is good practice
どうせ新しい物を習うならそれ練習じゃないか？
全体として出来る限り勉強するの方がいい。
>>546
I APOROJIIIIIZE >>547
I don't watch anime at all any more, not since my balls dropped. And my plans for learning Japanese are basically so that I can spend at least a couple years there, doing what yet I have no fucking clue.
Thanks for the tip about Anki, by the way, I've already got it up and running, so I'll be ahead of classes.
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Anonymous2010-12-01 21:37
Aside from flash cards, what are some other good ways that some of you use to memorize kanji/ readings?
>>551
You want to learn Japanese and live there for a few years but have no clue what your going to do? Learning a language and living in a completely different country is a huge commitment. I would defiantly think of the whys and whats before you start putting to much time in it in case it's not for you.
As for your other question, immerse your self. Listen to the music, podcasts, watch the movies, shows (don't have to be anime), video games, etc. Me personally it's the music and podcasts. Check out this website which has probably been mentioned here over 9000 times: http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/
I want to learn Japanese so I can study abroad there, but I'm basically a complete beginner (I know only around 20 words in Romanji) and I was wondering where I should start. I have Rosetta Stone and the Pimsler audio tapes. I've been using these side-by-side for the past few days, but I feel I'm not retaining alot, and only guessing what it says. Are there any better ways?
Sorry, first time posting on the bbs, /jp/ sent me here.
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Anonymous2010-12-15 22:26
>>572 I want to learn japanese to understand my dream waifu because I'm a weeaboo faggot
Also rosetta stone is for faggots, enjoy being monolingual
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Anonymous2010-12-16 10:42
>>572 >>573 is an idiot, I'm gonna be of any help to you.
First of all, I would say, through away Rosetta Stone and Pimsler, those are a little stupid.
If you are really serious about studying abroad, I would suggest you to learn at least the Hiragana and Katakana, those are the first things you should start with.
After that, I'm gonna tell you what works for me, it might not work for you.
For me, just listening to a language everyday, helps me catch words and phrases. You know, like a baby. The more you listen to the language, the easier it'll become.
The advantage we have over babies is that we know that objects are, watching a movie for example, you'll hear at least 2 or 3 common theme that comes back all the time, let's just say it's about a baby, you'll hear "akachan" ALL THE TIME. And boom, you fiugured out it means baby without even opening a dictionary.
Remember that you WILL NOT be able to speak Japanese in a few days, you have to be aware that it's gonna take a few months, probably years.
Your other option, is to enroll in a Japanese class, but you'll don't learn anything, but some people can only learn if they're in the atmosphere of a classroom.
Hope that helps.
Good luck.
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Anonymous2010-12-16 12:59
>>574
Pimsleur's actually decent faggot
and your an idiot
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Anonymous2010-12-16 13:21
sup, never posted here before, mainly because I didn't know it existed.
I'm a first year student in the UK (B.A. Japanese, obviously) and in our third term we go to study at 関西学院大学 in Kobe. This will be my first spell in Japan (we go for 4 months), so I'm a beginner when it comes to dialects. Of my teachers 2 are from Tokyo and one's from Nagano so I've never experienced Osaka-ben or Kansai-ben... we're going in March. Do I have anything to worry about? Is it much different other than the nai/hen thing? As a matter of fact, is it actually that dialect in Kobe?
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Anonymous2010-12-16 13:23
>>572
Keep RS and Pimsleur. Use them both. If you have an iPod touch/ iPad, get this: http://itunes.apple.com/app/japanese/id290664053
Also find a grammar book. (Barron's makes a decent one)
Get at least one paper dictionary (preferably a colloquial one)
Finally, use the language as much as you can! (most important!)
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Anonymous2010-12-16 13:24
Is there a suffix used when directly addressing one's parents?
What are the best resources? I know there's no consensus, I'm looking for someone to tell me what are generally regarded as good resources and what makes them good then I will select what I think will work for me.
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Anonymous2010-12-16 20:21
>>580
I learned/am learning from minna no nihongo, which seems to do the job. The other two 'standard' textbooks are Japanese for Busy People and Genki; I really don't like JfBP. Never seen Genki. Stay clear of things like rosetta stone- get it learned properly then go to Japan. That's pretty much the only way that I've seen.
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Anonymous2010-12-16 21:15
>>581
Things like RS are fine <<IF>> you use them in conjunction with something else. Genki is decent, I have a digital version that I got from tpb. readthekanji.com is also a decent site as it gives you a lot of repetition. Just turn off the romaji (and furigana if you can) and English translation. Force yourself to use what you know to try to decipher what it's saying. Take the N5 JLPT list and start memorizing. 30 every couple of days or so. Get a colloquial dictionary, a cultural dictionary, and a grammar book to help the process. Get a pen pal in Japan if you can and enable IME to type in kana/ kanji to write to him/ her. Things like that REALLY help lean the language
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Anonymous2010-12-16 23:23
>>579
The village people called, they want their "bottom" guy back
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Anonymous2010-12-17 12:30
I've been reading quite a bit on the AJATT website and it seems like a good method, I'm going to go with it I think. What can other people say about it?
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Anonymous2010-12-17 13:50
I think AJATT is overhyped.
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Anonymous2010-12-17 18:35
>>585
As long as it works for some, shouldn't that be a method that could be recommended? Everyone's different, as long as you reach the final goal which is speaking Japanese, it doesn't matter what method you use, if it works for you.
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Anonymous2010-12-18 0:06
Okay /lang/. For all intents and purposes, let's assume I've had no exposure to the Japanese language.
I'm interested in learning the language and have no idea where I should start. A thread on /jp/ suggested listening to the language via anime or some other media format, skipping kanji opting to use romanji instead of hirigana/katakana until I can fluently speak the language.
My question is, should I take this advice seriously? If not, where should I start. Are there any decent places to go and learn the syllabaries and all that? How would I go about connecting the written stuff to the verbal? (I'm more interested in learning the verbal language to start off with)
I was going to take a course at a uni near me but I wouldn't have been able to finish the year and didn't fancy shelling out the money for a course I wouldn't be able to finish, I may instead do this next september.
opting to use romanji instead of hirigana/katakana until I can fluently speak the language.
Whoever told you that, should be punched in the face. Several times. Seriously.
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Anonymous2010-12-18 10:02
>>588
This anon speaks truth
Dive right into it. Should take about a week to memorize hiragana and katakana. Just write the charts about 30 times a day minimum.
Start memorizing kanji IMMEDIATELY. Get the JLPT N5 list and MEMORIZE. Don't EVER use romaji. Use furigana while memorizing the vocab lists until you are comfortable with the kanji, then just do it by the kanji readings that you know. Kanji are the hot toast, kana are the butter. romaji is the fucking deep freezer.
>>601
Better way is just to write them.
Find sentences written in romaji, and write them in kana. First Hiragana, then the same sentence again in katakana, or vice versa.
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Anonymous2010-12-30 10:31
>>602
That would work well too, but if you are completely new to Japanese, this site is really helpful. It even shows you how to write the characters correctly
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Anonymous2010-12-30 12:25
>>603
Just learn the basic tendencies for the stroke orders. Don't need to memorize the order for each one. For instance, の, め, ぬ, and あ are only slightly different for あ, you write ✝ then の and you get あ. Learn tendencies, not orders. Takes a little bit longer than initially learning the orders, but it pays off, especially when memorizing kanji for the JLPT.
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Anonymous2010-12-30 15:18
Quick question
いきよ or it might be いくよ
Does this mean "Here it comes!" or "Heads up!" or something like that.
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Anonymous2010-12-30 15:58
or いきを、いきは、いくを、いくは
I can't tell... But I'm actually thinking its towards いきは
I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about...
ex. you're about to throw something at somebody else
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Anonymous2010-12-30 16:30
I'm not sure if the grammar of this Japanese sentence is correct:
「銀行で財布を忘れた訳がないだろう？ていうか、可能性があるけどきっと家にもって来たと覚えている。」
"There's no way I left my wallet at the bank. I mean, it's possible but I definitely remember bring it home"
明けましておめでとう皆
I'm just going day by day grinding my kanji cards, but I wanted to get back into memorizing vocab on the side as well... My problem is I completely forgot what the site was I used.
It's a very popular .tv site that has a lot of different Japanese learning programs on it but I can't for the life of me find it again. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
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Anonymous2011-01-01 21:02
>>610
My favorite is an app called 'Japanese' for iPhone/ iPad. it has 162011 entries, 12734 kanji, several other features that you could look up if interested, and flash cards that you can use in customizable vocab lists, or preset ones, such as grade level, JLPT, etc. With the JLPT lists, there's N5-N1 and you can sort by Kanji, word, or all. quite handy, especially with the flash cards.
>>613
This is the best. I think it costs about $15, but it's extremely worth it. I have had it for 2 1/2 years now and I use it almost daily. http://www.codefromtokyo.com/japanese
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Anonymous2011-01-02 0:50
>>612
Oh herp derp... not .tv... it was indeed Smart.fm
Thanks a lot mate. FOR SCIENCE.
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Albus Dumblefuck2011-01-02 13:12
Ok damn it,
i don't have time to scroll and read right this moment,
so might you all list me the BEST online materials (e-books, sites, etc.)
for learning Japanese ?
i have time now after my semester finals are over,
and id like to use it, taking classes ain't my gig since i learn best alone with my own system,
i just need detailed and well made materials to begin and carry one,
>>620 http://www.readthekanji.com/
I know you requested online materials, but you should also invest in a hardcopy of a colloquial dictionary. Also it's old and probably quite hard to find, but try to get a book called "Practical Japanese" by Naganuma and Mori (1962). It was published in Japan for people trying to learn Japanese. It is extremely good at explaining various hard-to-grasp aspects of the JP language
1. learn kana (1-2weeks)
2. learn kanji (2-4 months)
3. learn sentences (eternity)
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Anonymous2011-01-02 14:08
>>622
| 2. learn kanji (2-4 months)
For how many kanji??
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Anonymous2011-01-02 14:13
>>623
I did the AllJapaneseAllTheTime way so around 2015 i think. In that he recommends Hesig which is what I did and I'm sure a lot of others did as well but it isn't for everyone.
Just learn the joyo kanji.
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Anonymous2011-01-02 19:23
I still recommend grinding kanji with kanjidamage, I think it's more entertaining and easier to make flashcards with it.
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Anonymous2011-01-04 0:21
>>34
Why would you only want to learn how to speak Japanese in a polite way, you're hindering yourself in your studies and you will also come across as a pushover lil bitch.
>>624
2042 kanji, I believe. >>623
It's not as impossible as you might think. I've gotten down 1100 in just over a month, but I've kind of halted for the past few weeks due to RSI issues in my arm (too much writing with a bad pen). If you follow the right methods (i.e. RTK), your biggest limitation should be the strain on your arm.
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Anonymous2011-01-05 0:05
Feel free for hating me for saying this, but one of the reasons (outside of the more legitimate ones) I'm learning Japanese is so that I can read (and perhaps eventually assist in translating, should I eventually become that fluent) untranslated visual novels.
Considering the fact that the only learning I'll have done by the end of January is the completion of Remembering the Kanji 1, roughly how long (in years) do I have until I can (with the help of a dictionary) read a visual novel?
It's not a major goal, but it's kind of a progress post I'd like to aim for if someone could set some sort of realistic time frame for me.
I personally disagree with the method (learning from visual novels only, as opposed to real life, will logically lead to you thinking and writing like an anime-character or an otaku) but will probably incorporate it into my study after the first year working with Core2k and live action shows, movies, and news broadcasts (and hopefully newspapers) in Anki.
If there's any other general advice that the more experienced folk here could give me, it would be much appreciated. I've been trying to scan through some of these threads, but there are many posts. I'm currently following the AJATT method, more or less (except I'm keeping the RTK stories on the back side of the card instead of on the front side).
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Anonymous2011-01-05 1:23
>>630
Visual novels and manga are different. A Visual novel is also commonly known as an eroge. >>631
Anyway, if you're really dedicated, you can do it in a year. Start memorizing kanji from the very beginning.
And also, that whole "watch anime and you'll become an anime character" is fucking stupid, all they do in anime and visual novels is use casual speech a lot of the time, just don't fucking act and you'll talk like a normal person.
I also recommend watching nicovideo.jp broadcasts.
AND FUCK HEISIG. KANJIDAMAGE.COM OR BUST
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Anonymous2011-01-05 3:15
>>632
I suppose it should seem fairly obvious when they're talking like a crazy/cutesy person or whether they're talking casually, in the end, anyway. I still plan to mix things up, though.
Kanjidamage.com seems pretty great in comparison to RTK1, but I've already completed over a 1000 using RTK1. FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU... It would slow me down by at least a few weeks if I were to change now, negating most of the benefits. There doesn't seem to be an offline (preferably Anki) option, either. I'll be sure to recommend it to others as I encounter them, though.
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Anonymous2011-01-05 11:21
Good man. And I've actually seen someone on /jp/ I think that was making an Anki deck for kanjidamage as he went along... It'll be finished when he is I guess. I make all my cards by hand.
Hey guys, just letting you know... next time you think doing something unproductive like video games sounds like more fun, forget it and do some more study. More study = more fun.
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Anonymous2011-01-10 10:07
>>643
I do both by playing RPGs in Japanese. In fact.... everyone SHOULD play games and read shit in Japanese because it's a good break and practice.
>>644
My cousin that lives in Japan sent me some manga in JP for Christmas. Pretty fun trying to translate it.
inb4 weeaboo
also, trying to get the Harry Potter series (books) in JP. Does anybody know of a place where I could DL a pdf of the HP series in JP?
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Anonymous2011-01-12 5:25
Where can I find books or sites that have like articles, news or anything in Japanese and then English translations so I can check if I understood correctly.
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Anonymous2011-01-13 2:48
>>644
What's good RPG/simgame with easy to understand Japanese one can play?
I know only Elona. And Recettear.
>>647 pdf
This shit is painful. Half of the times, was compiled by clueless moron, so when you'll try to copy-paste from it instead of moonrunes you'll get "PDgS" (because author decided that it's easier to change font for letters, then to actually change letters)
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Anonymous2011-01-14 14:50
If you're using the te form to join verbs in a single sentence, how do you put something in the past tense while keeping it in the te form?
For example, "When I was a kid, I played baseball and listened to music."
子供の時野球をして音楽を聞きました。
Does it even require a modification or can you just leave it like that since it's prefaced by 子供の時?
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Anonymous2011-01-15 5:25
>>649
Fortune summoner
It's really easy-to-understand Japanese game
Back again, nevermind; found the answer after a shit-ton of google searching. Posting the answer for anyone who may show up with the same question.
The -te form of a verb which does not have a tense or mood combines with other verb forms. It may be formed from the plain past tense by changing the ending -ta to -te. When the -te form is used to link two sentences where it may be translated as "and", the verb at the end of the sentence shows the overall tense of the sentence.
土曜日の朝に東京へ行ました。新しいスーツを買いました。
Doyoubi no asa ni Toukyou e ikimashita. Atarashii suutsu o kaimashita.
On Saturday morning I went to Tokyo. I bought a new suit.
土曜日の朝に東京へ行って、新しいスーツを買いました。
Doyoubi no asa ni Toukyou e itte, atarashii suutsu o kaimashita.
On Saturday morning I went to Tokyo, and bought a new suit.
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Anonymous2011-01-15 15:20
I've been learning kanji for the last month or so using kanjidamage and a simple program I wrote asking me questions from the website. So far I've fully remembered the first 220 entries and maybe one reading from another 100 or so kanji (because of the jukugos). Having watched hundreds of anime over the years I can tell the meaning of a lot more words if I can get the reading.
Now my question is, I'd like to get some japanese-english (paper, not online) dictionary with the most common words (maybe 10,000 or 20,000 words but having more is not an issue). I've looked around and every dictionary I find sorts the words according to their reading. This doesn't help at all if I encounter a word I can't read. Are there dictionaries sorting words by kanji ? (using the radicals probably, the same way it's done on kanjidamage) If there are, is it a good thing to get one of those ? If not, what is a good kanji reference book ? (I would expect it to have the meaning, different readings and jukugo examples for 2000 kanji or so)
I don't specifically know of a paper Japanese-English dictionary sorted by kanji radicals. I'm not sure why you would need this when WWWJDIC is easily accessible, though.
Actually I never checked out WWWJDIC before, which is kind of stupid since I use a chrome extension adding furigana/translations from this website on a daily basis. Thanks for mentioning it, it's a great website and I'll definitely use it.
The main reasons I'd like to have a paper dictionary, aside from the obvious fact that I can use it offline, are because I like holding books in my hands, and I'd like to simply browse it at random. Also, I get the feeling a book written by a group of professionals will be more accurate than a random website (kanjidamage for example, while great for learning is full of little mistakes here and there).
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Anonymous2011-01-18 18:50
STOP USING ANOTHER LANGUAGE TO LEARN JAPANESE!!! IT'S STUPID!!! YOU DON'T LEARN A LANGUAGE USING ANOTHER ONE, YOU LEARN A LANGUAGE BY USING THE LANGUAGE!!!
>How are you supposed to learn a language using a language you don't know?
How'd you learn English, bro?
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Anonymous2011-01-20 10:34
>>657
Exactly what >>659 said. Were you born miracurously with the ability to speak your native language? NO! You LEARNED it, you had no notion whatsoever of a language.
The only think you can use now (without using your native language) is the fact that you know what things are, you know a car is a car, you know red is red... so you don't have to re-learn what is what, but you should still learn a language, using the language, not another one, your brain will still learn it and you will be closer to native-like since your brain will not try to translate a word first in your native language, it will come to you naturaly. If that makes sense.
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Anonymous2011-01-20 22:26
Hi guys. What does そーゆーワケにもいかん mean? I can't find out what Ikan means for the life of me. and is (wake) katakana for wake(as in wake up?)
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Anonymous2011-01-21 8:46
>>659
I learnt English exactly like >>657 said, using a language that I already knew. So what?
Except by "You LEARNED it" you mean "You needed 10-14 years to LEARN how to formulate sentences more complex than 'I love my cat. My cat is white. Her name is Lucky. Lucky loves to play with her tail. Her tail is very long and beautiful'".
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Anonymous2011-01-21 9:59
>661
そういうわけでもいかない
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Anonymous2011-01-21 17:39
>>660
Immersion and using prior experience as a base to build a more complex understanding of Japanese or any other language is paramount to becoming "fluent". The difference is that you don't have to act like a sensory deprived 2 year old, stumbling around vocab you don't know and pounding it in your head through mindless repetition before you suddenly "learn it" and become "fluent". Comparing the language comprehension and acquisition of a developing mind to that of a grown one by assuming there is no difference is also completely idiotic. The years it takes for someone to actually become fluent in a language after the language sector of their mind has completely developed can be halved if they use what they already know and augment it to compliment a new paradigm.
A quick example: you constantly see and hear the word 棚, you know its component kanji, you know how to write it, you know how to pronounce it, but you don't know what it MEANS. Which is better, waiting until you happen upon an explanation or continually use context clues that only give you a partial understanding, or simply using the language you already know to COMPLETELY understand that it means "shelf" and then attribute the meaning of 棚 to the same removed, mental estimation of the physical body your mind already understands as "shelf" and be done with it?
Your native language is not a crutch; it's a tool. As you gain a higher understanding of Japanese, you should obviously work with it more but that does not mean abandoning the wealth of knowledge in your native language and starting from scratch.
I'm all for immersion and listen to Japanese for hours and hours each day, but using English (or another language) can still help in making things make sense. I tend to look up words I don't know in both an English-Japanese dictionary, and a "kokugo jiten", that is, a Japanese dictionary in Japanese. The former helps me get the right idea, the latter helps me "get it", if that makes any sense.
While it's certainly possible to learn a new language without using an old one, it's going to be easier to connect concepts you already know with new words by using the words you already know. As the words you already know starts to include more and more Japanese words, you can easily nativise (I just made that word up) your ability with Japanese.
tl;dr don't make things too complicated for yourself
tl;dr 2 ゆっくりしていってね！
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Anonymous2011-01-22 20:59
I'm looking for audio I can listen to while driving to help me learn. Something which says random sentences in Japanese, then repeats them in English.
There's your mistake. Japanese and English have very little in common, and the grammar is often reversed, so unless you have enough of a grasp on the language to determine which words are nouns, verbs, adjectives, grammatical particles, etc... that won't help you very much.
But... lets say you do. I'm not really sure of anything that matches your description. Personally, I'd reccomend finding some Japanese music you like (pref music where the words are not distorted or something). Listen to a few songs, then later when you get a chance, look up the translated lyrics.
Also nice get.
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random rant2011-01-23 3:03
Today I learned that bottom-right part of 様 is written not like 水, where left part is written in one stroke shaped liked katakana ﾌ. Instead in 様 it's written with 2 strokes. WTF.
I heard it in a song and a dude is singing it. Does that mean hes feminine? gay?
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Anonymous2011-01-29 21:39
>>681
You'll notice that Japanese copulae in general have no particular meaning. The most common copulae 「だ」 and its distal form 「です」 are linguistically thought of as predicating a sentence by connecting the subject with its predicate, though if you've spent anytime with Japanese you'll know that there is no difference in English meaning between 本社の部長はあほです、本社の文長はあほだ、or 本社の部長はあほである. Feminine copulae such as 「なの」 accomplish the same goal as 「です」 or 「だ」 but are primarily used by females or indicate female speech.
I can't say whether its "normal" for males to use 「なの」 but I seldom hear it. More likely, its the auxiliaries 「なのだ」 or 「なのです」, which are used across gender.
「なの」has no specific meaning in English. 「の」 can be thought of as a word that adds emphasis or explanation, though it is used in other purposes, as well. It becomes 「なの」after nouns and certain adjectives.
Sometimes men will say 「なん」instead of 「なの」to sound less girly, which is just a shortened form.
If you're talking about music, though, lyrics don't always follow speech conventions.
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Anonymous2011-02-01 9:23
Are there any recommended guides or books for learning the language? I don't wish to learn to speak it, by the way, only reading is necessary. What should I learn first, hiragana or katakana? I have no prior experience with the language, by the way.
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Anonymous2011-02-01 11:48
hey guys, i wanna learn japanese through reading japanese light novels and other reading materials, can anyone recommend me some sites or books for references?
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Anonymous2011-02-01 14:31
hey guys, i wanna learn japanese through reading japanese light novels and other reading materials, can anyone recommend me some sites or books for references?
Hi /lang/. I've just finished Heisig's RTK and RTKana and I'm wondering where to go from there. I haven't got the patience for the lack of vocabulary in Pimsleur despite barely knowing how to speak any Japanese, so I'm thinking of just picking up sentences and running with them as Khatzumoto recommends over at AJATT.
Where's the best place to start learning sentences? The Core2000/6000k packs, or should I just start watching videos and reading news?
>>693
I recommend fapping to some hentai for a few years in your mom's basement
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Anonymous2011-02-07 20:09
>>694
Mum doesn't have a basement. I'm not much of a fan of the anime part of the culture in general, but I'll be happy to move back into the darkest bedroom and oblige with the rest of your advice if you think it'll help my study.
I'm trying anki after mnemosyne. I have a question - how do I disable card layout in downloaded decks?
Here's situation:
I downloaded Japanese Core 2000, made new card layout
because I didn't want to see sentences in question
I created layout that I want to use(it displays only kanji on question and full information on answer, e.g. "法律"), in Model Properties I even disabled Reading and Dictation models,
but it still shows me 法律 -- 新しい法律が出来た in review and by F2 it still displays "Template used by fact: reading(current)". And when I manually change layout in this F2 menu to "MyJC2KLayout" it does nothing.
>>701
The authorities thought that simplified Kanjis would make it easier to read and write Japanese.
They even tried to do away with all Kanjis but didn't succeeded.
BTW, people would use 国 when they wrote 國, even before the authorities authorized 国.
(I don't know the reason why it was 玉, though.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_script_reform
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Anonymous2011-02-10 2:31
Do japanese use simplified chinese writing? Like 话 instead of 話?
Why is everything bad in japanese connected with 女？
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Anonymous2011-02-10 16:55
>>704
I've never seen the use of Simplified Chinese characters in Japanese. I don't know Chinese, but I instantly recognise when I'm looking at Simplified Chinese because those characters are strange to me.
No, actually, everything bad in Japanese is not connected with women.
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Anonymous2011-02-10 20:16
Does anyone know some good podcasts, TV shows, youtube channels, etc where they talk like normal people? I don't feel like I get worthwhile practice out of perfectly enunciated lesson or cartoon talk any more.
>>715
Hmmm. What's the difference between 要りません and 必要はない？
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Anonymous2011-02-14 0:26
>>716
Very nuanced. The difference between "need" as to compensate for a deficiency and "need" as in an imperative or something required.
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Anonymous2011-02-14 0:29
>>717
So, if you didn't have a car but didn't "need" one BECAUSE everything was so close, I'd recommend 要る. However, if, because everything was so close, the need of a car was not required, I'd recommend 必要.
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Anonymous2011-02-14 0:33
>>718
I see, that makes sense. Thanks for the help.
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Anonymous2011-02-14 1:55
ひちりいみかにみい
i really hate to bother you guys, but what does/could this mean?
it was on something i got for valentines day.
逆に「買い物をすっかり忘れていた」というの文章の動詞の行動（忘れる）は過去進行形を使っている。
英語は「I had completely forgot to go shopping」。
Basically, 忘れる in the plain polite past tense form only denotes a single instance of forgetting a single event at a single point and time.
「家に教科書を忘れました」
I forgot my textbook at the house
「昨晩、お礼として上司に電話するのを忘れてしまったんだ」
I completely forgot to call my boss last night to thank him.
On the other hand, the use of ている with 忘れる in the past references a continual or resultant state of forgetting. In your example, 買い物を忘れていた can be understood as "I had been forgetting to go shopping" but sounds incredibly awkward in English. We normally just say "I forgot to go shopping, wax my vagina, walk the dog etc. etc." but the nuance in Japanese is that forgetting (along with knowing, marriage, and a few other verbs) are continual states, not instances.
Thank you for so thorough an answer, if I may, I'd like to ask two more. Can you help me understand the circumstances in which one might choose to use past progressive over the plain past? And two, you used the form 「noun」になる in the construction "結果は「I forgot my/the handbag」になります。" I run into this build all the time and for my money になる resembles the copula here. Why is this and when do you use it? Another example might be 「あの人は私のいとこになります。」 "He, she, that person IS my cousin" What's wrong with good ol' です?
On second inspection, the usage of になる I cited from your sentence reads more like "to become" which is the usage I understand. I may very well be drawing a distinction that the Japanese do not, but my question still stands. I still get a sense of "to be"ness from the construction in the sentence I provided.
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Anonymous2011-02-15 17:50
>>725
As I said earlier, the plain past most often denotes that something was done completely and thoroughly during a single instance of time, while the past progressive illustrates a continual state in the past. The difference might be communicated more clearly with a different verb:
「彼女は彼と結婚していたけど結婚式のすぐ後に離婚しました」
She had been married to him but they divorced soon after the wedding ceremony.
In this sentence, the English "had been married" is actually using passive construction to show that there was a period of time during which the couple was in the state of marriage. However, in Japanese, that clause is more literally understood as "--She had married with him [and they were still married]-- but they divorced soon after the wedding ceremony". Thus, they were once in the state of marriage thanks to the past progressive (結婚していた) but, because of the divorce, are no longer, as indicated by the use of the plain past (離婚しました). A likely response to this statement would be 「あら、離婚しているの？残念ね」/"My, they're divorced? How unfortunate". As you can see, 離婚している identifies that the (former) couple is currently divorced as both a resultant and continual state.
「noun」になる most usually means "will be/will become [noun]. In my example, the sentence simply meant "the result will be [what was in between the kagikakko]". It can be used to make a more polite sentence depending on the context but you may be seeing 敬語 (honorific terms) such as 「お食べになる」 which carries the same meaning as 「食べる」 but with a higher level of respect.
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Anonymous2011-02-16 4:09
「僕の家から十分ぐらい歩くのは十軒のレストランがあります」
I'm curious as to the correctness of this sentence. I'm a bit confused as between the connector between 歩く and 十軒. I am meaning to say that "If you walk for 10 minutes you can find about 10 different restaurants".
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Anonymous2011-02-16 7:35
>>728
Basically, except an accurate translation wouldn't contain any conditional form:
"There are 10 restaurants within about a 10 minute walk from my house"
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Anonymous2011-02-16 19:17
I finished katakana a couple of days ago, and have started learning the grammar. I'm still at particles though, as something really confuses: the が particle.
ボブは魚が好きだ。
Bob likes fish. This much I can understand, as が is referring to something that was being talked about, ボブ.
Replacing が with は would turn this into "Bob" "Fish likes" I assume. Then:
俺の妹がこんなに可愛いわけがない
Why is が used here? Isn't the topic "俺の妹"? Why not は?
I'm not getting this at all, honestly. How do you usually use it? Practice, or by rule?
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Anonymous2011-02-16 22:24
>>730
Subject or object; that in the sentence which is doing or being something. You can think of 'ga' as a very firm, very necessary, very connective 'wa' that establishes whatever it marks as vital to the construction of the sentence.
Another helpful tip: The 'wa' particle can almost always be eliminated from a sentence without its "meaning" changing in Japanese, and it often makes for me "natural" Japanese. However, a sentence that has a subject in Japanese (as indicated by the 'ga' particle) MUST always have a subject to achieve the same meaning.
Your example:
ボブは魚が好きだ - with topic
(ボブ・私・大統領）「は」魚が好きだ - without topic
Same meaning basic meaning.
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Anonymous2011-02-16 22:41
I'm taking Japanese classes at College and I notice my Japanese teacher uses some...questionable diction. For example, when she has us split into pairs, and tells the odd person out to work with another group she says that they can be part of a "threesome". Then she talks about how the vertical line in 事 "penetrates" the others. Now the thing that scares me is that www.dictionary.com mentions NOTHING about "threesome" being sexually suggestive at all, and the Random House dictionary doesn't mention anything about "penetrate" either.
Now my Japanese teacher speaks English much better than I speak Japanese, so this makes me concerned that I might make a similar faux pas if speak Japanese. Therefore, does anyone know of a Japanese counterpart to www.urbandictionary.com where this kind of information might be chronicled?
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Anonymous2011-02-17 0:20
Reposted from /jp/
My class is 9 chapters into An Integrated Approach to Japanese (the books that follow Genki) and I've been having trouble understanding/translating the 読み物. Back when my classes used Genki, the class used to tranlate together but now they don't.
Do translations exist anywhere on the internet? I don't want to have to go ask someone in real life to help me translate.
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Anonymous2011-02-17 10:27
>>732
Although they're extremely common in normal speech, やる(to fuck)出る(to ejaculate), and 行く(to cum) carry implicit sexual connotations. Just try to stay away from situations wherein they could be misconstrued as carrying a double meaning.
Also watch out for sentences and phrases that mix sounds together to produce dirty words, like ちんこ、まんこ、金玉、おっぱい、etc.
Overseas Chinese person reporting in.
I got the kana down in two weeks and now I´m learning some awkward nihongo grammar.
I already own two dictionaries (Mandarin Simplified Han, Cantonese Traditional Han), but I need an english-japanese commonly used kanji dictionary that doesn´t use romaji and shit like that.
>>734
Thanks, and it looks like my fears were at least partially justified. That definition for 出る isn't listed on jisho.org or en.wiktionary.org or google translate.
i am a heron. i haev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans
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Anonymous2011-02-19 7:06
Consider this: A pack of wild Niggers.
Savage, slavering Niggers nearing your white home. Trampling your white lawn. Raping your white daughter.
And you can't do shit since they're savages. The Nigger leader grabs your wife and fucks her with his shaman stick.
The primal Niggers finally dominate your household. They watch barbaric shows on TV and you are forced to be their slave.
Such is the downfall of White Man.
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Anonymous2011-02-19 8:32
>>748
I'll be fucking ready, you winged piece of turkey cunt. Bring it.
>>754
"Clubs (or possibly a sorority or fraternity) sure are nice, huh? I mean, anybody can get their 15 minutes of fame with the opposite sex! Well, I guess there's no mistaking that I'm the only exception."
>>747
The sentence is from a book, and someone is making food with stuff he found in the forest. I still don't understand how a fish pours into a pomegranate's "mouth," but thanks anyways! I think it might have something to do with zakuro sushi.
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Anonymous2011-02-19 20:04
Is there some kind of widely agreed upon method/guide to start learning the language?
>>731
I see... So to sum it up, it is what the sentence or conversation centers around, but it works essentially like "wa".
in the case of "俺の妹がこんなに可愛いわけがない", it is defining the most important object/subject of the sentence, and in the case of "ボブは魚が好きだ", "fish" is what the sentence is centered on.
ボブが魚は好きだ。 "Bob is the one that likes fish."
ボブは魚が好きだ "Bob likes fish (specifically)."
「犯人は違法の行動をしなかったのを警察官に説明しようとしたが、結局捕まえられました。」
The criminal tried to explain to the police officer that he did not commit any illegal acts but, in the end, he was arrested.
「それはこの前に聞いたことある気がするけどちゃんと覚えられません」
I feel as though I've heard that before but I can't really remember
「ぼうっとしていた生徒は教師に黒板に書かれた問題をもう一度説明していただけないと尋ねました。先生は断って、生徒に教室から出てと言いました。」
The student who had been spacing out asked the teacher if she could explain the problem that had been written on the blackboard one more time. The teacher refused and told the student to leave the classroom
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Anonymous2011-02-21 0:34
Hello. Thank you for posting that great guide. How long does it take for a fast learner, if he stays on course, to have his first sense of achievement? How many signs to I have to learn to follow basic conversation on 2chan or the like?
>>771
Seriously dude, throw your textbook out of the window. They're useful, but are completely unproductive (and way more expensive) compared to studying the language from real Japanese media.
Does anyone know the etymology of 名前? I was wondering what "front" had to do with a person's name.
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Anonymous2011-02-22 20:45
>>780
>I was wondering what "front" had to do with a person's name.
Not a goddamn thing. Now keep studying.
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Anonymous2011-02-22 21:31
I just started studying Japanese like 3 days ago. I'm done with Hiragana and Katakana, and now I'm getting started on Kanji. I've been using Heisig's book, but it doesn't teach you the pronunciation. People say you learn it in the second book, and I don't have a problem with that, but I've heard people say to skip it as it is useless. If you don't use the second book, what do you use to learn pronunciation?
It has .wav files of all the sounds of the monographs and diacritic characters. P.S. Stop relying one goddamn resource to learn a language. Holy fuck.
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Anonymous2011-02-23 0:25
>>783
Well, I was actually trying to find out how to say each kanji. Do you suggest learning how to say the words while learning what they mean or going the Heisig way and learning how to read after?
I tried kanjidamage but it's confusing as fuck. Like, should I even bother with jukugo?
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7832011-02-23 1:08
>>780
Forget the name. Wonder what front has common with cutting off legs(刖) instead.
>>784
Fuck kanji.
So you'll remember that 前 can be pronounced like さき, ぜん, まえ. And ... what now? What you are going to do with this "awesome" knowledge? "Hey, did you know that you can pronounce 名前 as めいぜん if you're crazy enough?"
Sugge, aniki! Way to waste your time.
>>782
Just continue on with RTK. I'm hoping you're using Anki - if you aren't, start using it. As for how you'll learn the pronunciations, well, the kanji tend to have many pronunciations and there's no point learning them separately. You will learn the pronunciations in the context of sentences. DON'T use furigana to assist you - that'll only slow or prevent your learning of the pronunciations; what you want to be doing is having Anki flashcards with the sentence on one side with kanji and all, and the same sentence on the other side with the kana instead, along with a brief definition of the sentence as a whole.
Also, you don't want to be memorising or translating the sentences - just learn to read them aloud and understand the general meaning of the sentence and its words. If you forget the pronunciation of a word, write down the word once while pronouncing it before going onto the next card.
The course I would recommend is:
- Learn 2042 kanji
- Begin sentences while learning a maximum of 5 additional kanji per day (from RTK3 or otherwise - most days you should aim for 2)
>>785
Yeah... it's people like you who are stuffing their faces in the Japanese McDonalds stores with a bunch of fat gaijin while only talking amongst themselves.
「のを」 sounds a little bit childish. Instead, use 「～事(こと）を」 when you translate "that."
By the way, isn't it strange to call him a "criminal" if he did not commit any illegal acts? Or, was he trying to deceive the police officer?
In Japanese, 犯人 means a person who committed a crime.
Unlike "remember", 覚える・覚えている doesn't have the meaning of "recall." You can use 思い出す instead.
出て is a rather friendly way to tell someone to leave.You can use 出て行け to mean "Get out."
「～と尋ねる」 translates into "ask her that."
「～か尋ねる」 translates into "ask her if "or "ask her whether."
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Anonymous2011-02-23 11:44
And what would be the point of learning all readings for all kanji?
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Anonymous2011-02-23 12:01
>>787
Make the cards myself? Or is there already a deck like that.
I'm a lazy bastard, so I'm not really too keen on making the deck myself.
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Anonymous2011-02-23 14:32
>>786
No, it is not. It is about the words and grammar around the words.
Individual kanji are not useful when they are not connected to words. Knowining individual kanji hardly will help you recognize compound words(unless, duh, you saw them in other words).
Compare 人名 and 名人 or 心中 and 中心 for example.
>>790
There are decks, but already constructed decks will contain some cards that you don't want to know. And probably will never want to know. Like shellfish. Do you really need to know that 貝 かい is a shellfish? According to official jōyō kanji - yes.
According to common sense - no.
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Anonymous2011-02-23 17:07
>>781
Nope. I'm going to find out what the etymology is just like I do any English word. Thank you for your unwarranted criticism.
>>792
Well, then why don't you check etymology dictionary?
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Anonymous2011-02-24 5:30
My request might be a little weird. At the university we have materials from some book. Here's a page from it: http://i53.tinypic.com/e9b5tv.jpg
We already had idioms, onomatopeias, etc. Our teacher won't say what the source is since there are answers to questions. I'd be really happy if any of you would know the name of this book. Thanks in advance.
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Anonymous2011-02-24 6:12
>>790
If you're talking about RTK, there's already an excellent RTK deck available in the shared decks section. You only need to fill in the sentences yourself, and even then you can just copy-and-paste from Reviewing the Kanji at koohii (Google is your friend).
As for sentences, you can start with the Core2000 (again, Google is your friend) and then I'd recommend making your own cards. This should be pretty easy anyway - 20-30 sentences per day should take you less than 15 minutes over the course of the day as you randomly notice them and add them to the deck. There are some sources you could be copying and pasting if you really want to - in fact, a lot of people have become semi-fluent in Japanese simply by copying and pasting and reading/viewing Japanese media.
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Anonymous2011-02-24 20:36
>>759
In the case of "to like/dislike" or "to have" がis always used with the object in question. And since you aren't really supposed to use はor がmore than once in a sentence, the object takes priority since IT is what is liked.
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Anonymous2011-02-26 13:20
It's getting very annoying to use one of various websites to search for a kanji I don't recognize. Do you guys have any recommendation for electronic dictionaries?
kanjidamage is heisig with a different, worse, order. You can use kanjidamage with heisig order though.
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Anonymous2011-02-27 5:28
>>799
I'd still recommend Heisig's RTK with Heisig's order. The writer of kanjidamage likes to plug his site on these boards, and as much as I appreciate the concept and work he's put into it, it simply isn't an improvement over the RTK + Reviewing the Kanji combination.
The readings are easily learnt in the context of sentences and so you only really need keyword->kanji to start with.
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Anonymous2011-02-27 21:08
よく聞け、若者
世界の共通語は「ちんこ」だ
以上
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Anonymous2011-02-27 21:15
does anyone know of some sorta of fast, quick and easy way to learn japanese?
i'm currently trying to learn off of the wikibooks page but it seems to be hard for me.
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Anonymous2011-02-27 22:03
>>802
>fast, quick and easy way
Goddamn, are you trying to learn a language or order a fucking sandwich?
Languages are never fast. Sorry bud.
The most learning you could squeeze into the shortest amount of time would be one of many various 1 month study abroad courses. I recommend the Kobe YMCA summer program offered by the Center for Study Abroad. I also recommended you supplement that by studying kana before you go and using rosetta stone (if you're smart enough to get it for free).
These two don't work together. Rosetta Stone teaches you like 5 words after 600 hours.
The fastest way is simple:
- Complete RTKana and RTK by Heisig (anyone, no matter what their time situation, should be able to finish them in less than 3 months with Anki)
- Begin learning thousands of sentences using KANJI ONLY, but only AFTER you've completed RTK1.
- After you learn ~1000 sentences, find some Japanese friends and speak only in Japanese with them. Insist that they correct any and all mistakes you make.
Done. Nothing else, and it's all free assuming you pirate Heisig's books.
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Anonymous2011-02-28 5:32
>>807
I forgot to mention, you should continue learning many thousands of sentences (in Anki) while you converse with your nip buddies.
Oh, I wasn't recommending Kanjidamage, but really, it's up to you. The whole point of Heisig is order + interesting stories that work your imagination. It doesn't matter if they're from RTK, Kanjidamage, or hell, even if they're in japanese you don't quite understand yet.
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Anonymous2011-03-01 5:46
>>809
Yes, good point. I actually tend to add my sentences from audio sources where possible, although I probably should have mentioned watching videos (news, dramas, and yes, even anime) and listening to music/radio/podcasts, too.
Heisig is a pretty much shit writer imo. The introduction is tolerable and probably helpful, but I personally couldn't stand the rest of his book because it was so goddamn awful.
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Anonymous2011-03-01 15:50
>>812 You need to have the instant language learning card implanted in your brain for that.
can i torrent that and if so i need a link
if not how much do those cost and where can i get one
As far as I'm aware, it's not used as いちにん very often.
But いちにん means something more along the lines of "one person", while ひとり means something closer to "alone".
Could be wrong though...
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Anonymous2011-03-04 13:16
>>812
That's why you only read the introduction and the opening paragraph of the first bunch of lessons, and then just make use of the heisig kanji order (koohii is a good resource for non-Heisig-written non-Christian-faggot stories along with the great Heisig order).
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Anonymous2011-03-04 19:44
Here's the deal:
I'm in Japanese I at my school which sucks, so that's pretty irrelevant, but it helped teach me the hiragana and katakana which I pretty much have down.
I started Kanjidamage today and feel like I'm learning some shit, but I really want to read some easy Japanese stuff (preferably an actual story, not manga or a kid's book) but it needs to use few kanji at all if any so that I can expand my vocabulary by dictionary flipping as I read.
英訳
Having fulfilled all testing requirements and with sacrifice and dedication to the Martial Arts, we bestow upon the named individual the honor of this ran
>>821
Stop trying to eat the cake before baking it. I'd recommend RTK over Kanjidamage like others have been here, but either way, just put in the hours and learn at least 2000 (if not 2500-3000) kanji before starting the other parts. It's not that hard, should only take you a few months even if you have lots of other obligations.
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Anonymous2011-03-05 12:03
I'm trying to beef up my Kanji/vocab, because when I tried the JLPT 5 practice questions, the vocabulary was my limiting factor. I've looked through some of the recommendations in this thread but couldn't find one that suits me.
Background: I know Simplified Mandarin, so stroke order and memorizing the "hieroglyphs" are relatively easy for me(coincidental similar meanings are a happy bonus). RTK and Kanjidamage however, have those unnecessary information.
What I really need is a long list of commonly used words and readings along with their meanings, preferably separated by noun/verb/adjective. I made a list from scrounging together googled lists which I'm almost done with memorizing, but I would really like a more comprehensive proper list.
Thanks for any help.
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Anonymous2011-03-05 19:42
長いようで、短く思われたホームステイ。
How in the world is this a complete sentence?
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Anonymous2011-03-05 21:21
>>824
Conduct a search for "Core 2000" and "Core 6000." These are frequency lists based on Japanese newspapers sorted by the most common words. Also, don't bother with JLPT5. I don't really think you should be bothering with any of the JLPT tests, but if you have to take one just go directly for JLPT2 in 2012 and then JLPT1 in 2013. It's easier than it seems.
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Anonymous2011-03-06 7:54
>>826
Thanks for the advice. After much searching(smart.fm has since turned into a pay-service), I found Anki decks containing core 2000. It seems great as a tool for reviewing and memorizing, but feels lacking in the way you are supposed to start memorizing, which is apparently by throwing the question to you and practically expecting you to fail it. I guess I'll just have to get used to it, since the style of my formal education thus far is vastly different from that.
I was hoping to find a print-friendly version as well, but did not manage to. Do you happen to have one?
As for the JLPT tests, I was just using the practice questions as a simple benchmark of my aptitude. I am not planning to take any formal tests currently.
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Anonymous2011-03-06 12:30
Right now, I'm self-studying Japanese through Genki 1 and 2. I think both of those texts are pretty great, but while it'd still be a while away for me (I'm doing well with grammar, but my kanji and vocabulary skills could use some extra work), what would you say is a good text to read through after I'm done with the Genki ones?
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Anonymous2011-03-06 16:32
>>828
"An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese" is essentially Genki 3.
Though after Genki 2 I suggest just dropping textbooks and reading manga while drilling vocabulary in Anki.
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Anonymous2011-03-06 16:35
>>829
Okay, thanks for the advice. I'll check out that text anyways and also do what you said.
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Anonymous2011-03-06 16:38
>>827
Yeah, I had that same issue going through Core 6k in Anki. It's a little discouraging to fail a card multiple times before you can start getting it.
I suggest pausing every card, then just resuming ones you see in manga or words you're interested in. A lot of the words it throws at you are business and newspaper words anyway, which you might not be interested in if you just want to read VNs or whatever.
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Anonymous2011-03-07 2:09
>>827
You'll notice that the Anki version has links to audio files on its card (edit them to see). These audio files are available on sharing websites (search the koohii forums, they should be around there somewhere).
I recommend having the sentence with kanji on the front of the card and the hiragana sentence on the back along with the definition.
Regarding failing cards, well, it gets easier. Write down the kanji you're unable to remember the pronunciations for once you see the back of the card and try to form associations between the kanji in compounds.
As an example, 友達 has the RTK keywords "friend" and "accomplished," so as you write down the two kanji upon failing to pronounce them in a sentence you can say in your head "やった! I've finally made the accomplishment of finding a ともだち!" (usually you can just think of just the keywords and let the story play out in your head). Of course, you'll soon enough pick up enough Japanese for these stories to be in Japanese rather than in English :).
Well, yeah, that's why I would like to have a print-friendly version, so I can easily start off the memorization for everything and then use Anki for revision and long term memory, which it is most excellent for.
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Anonymous2011-03-07 7:51
Why are you faggots talking about how to learn instead of just doing it?
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Anonymous2011-03-07 16:41
What is the difference between 'motte' and 'katte' in these example sentences?
1. karera wa shinbun o motte imasu.
2. kare wa neko o katte imasu.
Do they both mean 'to own', and one is for inanimate objects and the other is for living things?
Also, what is the unconjugated form of 'katte'? I know 'motte' is 'motsu', but if 'katte' is the conjucated form of 'kau', to buy, then the example pictures in Rosetta Stone don't make any sense.
Example 1 shows a picture of two people sitting on a bench holding a newspaper and Example 2 shows a boy holding a cat, but I don't know the exact relationship between the two.
Thanks in advance.
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Anonymous2011-03-07 17:09
>>835
飼う(かう・kau) means to keep or own something, most often a pet
This is why you should stop using Rosetta stone and open a goddamn book.
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Anonymous2011-03-07 17:17
>>836
I agree with you there, I do have other resources, Rosetta is just supplementing them. But my question has to do with 'kau', you say it is to keep or own (pet/animal) but when I google 'kau japanese conjugation/verb it only shows as 'to buy'. There's consistent conflicting data with this verb and it's confusing me.
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Anonymous2011-03-07 17:58
>>837
There is no conflicting data, only your ignorance.
>>833
Actually you shouldn't be memorising these sentences at all. If you are, you're doing it wrong. Just read the sentence out from Anki. If you can pronounce everything correctly and know the general meaning of most of the words, that's already good enough. The goal is to expose yourself to thousands of sentences that you can roughly understand - complete understanding will come with experience.
>>835 >>837
Fuck romaji, and fuck Rosetta Stone. It's been said by someone else in this thread, but Rosetta Stone teaches you hardly anything given the number of hours you put into it. At least learn the kana (the kanji should only take 1-3 months if you want to learn them while you're at it) and then just start learning with example sentences. Core2000 is a good place to start, the Anki even has kana-only entries I believe.
If you insist on using Rosetta Stone, at least turn on the kana mode or preferably the kanji mode so you can get some practice there. Japanese was never meant to be written with spaces and the latin alphabet.
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Anonymous2011-03-10 4:48
Hi everyone,
I've just started learning Japanese. I've learned the 2042 RTK1 kanji and I'm now working on sentences as others in this thread have recommended. I've been learning a fair few sentences recently with kanji in them, and although these are quite easy, I was just wondering if I could get some opinions regarding learning the kanji versions of the names of people. Should I just use hiragana to save time while I gain confidence in the language, or would it save me pain in the long run if I were to just learn people's names in kanji immediately? It just seems like a waste of time to learn the names at a beginner's level when I may not even meet people with these names.
>>842
触る is intransitive but it can take the を particle to create sentences like those seen on Wiktionary. に can also be, and is more often, used to the same effect.
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Anonymous2011-03-14 12:18
>>843
Intransitive verb that takes を? Now as someone who relied on Tae Kim's guide I'm completely confused:
電気をついた。- （「を」 should be replaced with 「が」 or 「は」）
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Anonymous2011-03-14 17:03
触る was originally just an intransitive verb, but in recent years it's also being used as a transitive verb (probably because it's so close in meaning to 触れる).
Sometimes it's difficult to tell whether it's being used as a transitive/intransitive verb when the object and particle are omitted, but either way there's not much of a difference in meaning, so I wouldn't worry about it. Here are a few examples:
触る (intransitive):
肩に触る - to touch [someone] on the shoulder
展示品には触らないでください。 - Please do not touch the exhibit.
触る (transitive):
壁を触る - to touch a wall
子どもたちがウサギを触ってはしゃぎ回る。 - The children are happily petting the rabbits and frolicking about.
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Anonymous2011-03-14 17:35
>>845
Just to add some info, to some native speakers, the use of に in examples such as the above is felt to be more removed or indirect. The を particle, on the other hand, highlights intent or involvement. Largely, the two are interchangeable where certain intransitive verbs are concerned.
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Anonymous2011-03-15 0:54
I'm kind of lower intermediate in my Japanese study and so I decided to check out the Japanese version of Star Wars The Phantom Menace seeing as I have a DVD copy in my collection. Do my dismay, however, the Japanese subtitles seem to be outlining the meaning of what they're saying instead of being syllable-by-syllable. I know even English subtitles aren't always perfect transcriptions, but is this true of all Japanese subtitles or did I just pick a bad movie?
>>850
That's mutilated 亜米利加. Dunno why they didn't use kana from the very beginning. China uses 美 instead of 米. Which makes even less sense because america is fat and ugly.
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Anonymous2011-03-18 5:35
>>847
Almost the same story here except with Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles. Anyone?
Can anyone explain what the slang words mean? Apparently I'm not American because I have no idea what "snap" is supposed to mean in that context.
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Anonymous2011-03-19 12:22
>>855
Like "that's a snap" or "it'll be a snap", when referring to a proposed venture or task. "Cakewalk", "picnic", and "breeze" all amount to the same idea. The average society-minded individual can figure out the basic idea from context; even if that same individual is surprised to hear that their board meeting with corporate planned for this morning will actually involve the winning and distribution of sugar-glazed bread.
Alright, I've just recently started picking up Japanese and due to a stressful college phase I haven't been able to pick up more than the Kanas (I can use them fluently in both reading and writing now) and working myself through 7 Chapters of Genki I (including memorizing the Kanji).
However, I'm finding myself with a shitload of time starting next week and I want to get serious:
I want to learn the language as fast and efficient as possible in the direction of using it naturally in both normal life and the education/work sector. I'm talking about ~8 hours a day I could spend on picking it up.
However, I feel that Genki I is inappropriate for that purpose. Getting a proper course seems to be impossible as well, as they're either aimed at just a few hours a week or damn expensive if you want a private tutor.
Is it possible to reach such a level with self-study? If yes, what's the best approach for excessive time involvement and which books/materials should I get?
tl;dr: I need to pick up Japanese on a natural level as fast as possible. (reading, writing, conversation - just everything) I can spend a high amount of hours every day. And I'm lost in how to approach it.
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Anonymous2011-03-19 18:27
/二\
(￣＼__ク ／￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣
（ ´∀｀） ＜ I' LOVE AND RESPECT JAPAN AND NICO ROBIN!
／ | ＼ I
/ .| ＼＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿
/ "⌒ヽ |.ｲ |
＿＿ | .ノ | || |＿＿
. ノく＿＿つ∪∪ ＼
＿（（＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿_＼
￣￣ヽつ￣￣￣￣￣￣ | |￣
＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿__| |
￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣| |
2) Learn the 2042 Heisig kanji (~3 months usually if you only have an hour or two per day, but if you can spend 8 hours per day you could do it in around 1 month). Use the Anki (http://ankisrs.net/) shared deck for RTK (downloadable within Anki) to assist you as you do this.
3) Buy/steal a decent source of Japanese basics. Japanese the Manga Way 1 is a good start.
4) Work through whichever source you've chosen, entering sentences that are sufficiently different into Anki (i.e. don't enter "Bob ate this, Jane ate this" because you're not learning anything useful there).
5) Do you have more than 600 sentences in Anki? If no, return to step 3 and work through another source. If yes, continue to step 6.
6) Buy/steal a simple manga (I recommend Yotsuba&!) and work through it. You should be able to understand a small percentage of the words, enough to figure out the rest of the sentence with the help of WWWJDIC (http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C). Enter new sentences into Anki as per usual. This is where you should try to start typing the definitions in your current (admittedly limited) Japanese if possible - the faster you throw away English, the better.
7) It'll take you ages to work through all of the current Yotsuba volumes, but you'll enjoy it along the way. By the time you're finished, you're ready to move onto pretty much anything (don't expect it to be easy, though). I recommend a few more easy sources to start with (maybe an RPG, or a JDrama for young audiences). Check out subs2srs for putting video sources into Anki.
8) Just repeat this process, and constantly reduce English usage even when defining an item in Anki. After a couple of years, you should be able to throw away Anki and just consume Japanese media. I'd still recommend keeping a deck going in Anki for the particularly difficult sentences.
Want to know the words in order to talk about a particular subject? Wiki it then look on the left-hand side for the Japanese page. It's good because they'll normally explain the words right there in the text to you because it's trying to teach you about the subject.
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All in Japan2011-03-20 4:55
I've come here to say thank you.
I learned from TV news that lots of people around the world are sending aid to Japan.
Thank you!!
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Anonymous2011-03-20 6:07
>>860
Wow, way to reply to a year old post. It's useful information though, especially if you're hoping to transfer your current job skills to Japan.
Wow, thanks for this very detailed guide!
However, there's still a question lingering in my mind:
2) I've read quite a lot about RTK, and it seems to be an astonishing method for the vast amount of people... but isn't it contraproductive to associate the Kanji to English definitions/pronunciation if you want to go that far into Japanese? I see that it might be more efficient than repetition, but won't sheer repitition pay off later on? (Talking about all RTK volumes here, not just understanding the English meaning in RTK)
How can I deal with the pronunciation part? Seems to be quite difficult to figure it out without having a native speaker to take you by the hand.
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Anonymous2011-03-20 8:44
>>864
Pronunciation is pretty simple. Apart from らりるれろんふ, the consonants are pretty much identical. Do a bit of research on the vowels (reading and videos) because although a vowel sound may be comparable in one regional version of English, it may be completely different in another. Most pronunciation errors can be fixed with careful listening and imitation over time, though.
It may be helpful to have Japanese media (news, dramas, anime) playing in the background even if you don't understand it so you can pick up the pronunciation there, too.
Oh, and of course, it never hurts to try and find a Japanese friend.
Your last resort would be to hire a Japanese speaker for an hour or so to take you through it. The vowels are very simple, and after that there's just the other 7 I mentioned that are the main culprits. Harshness and tones are also important, but you can pick that up by imitating various forms of media.
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Anonymous2011-03-20 8:54
>>863
Ah, missed your question (it's late here and I'm about to sleep).
The point of RTK is to learn the general meaning (and perhaps more importantly, writing of including stroke order) of the kanji, and learn it fast. I can assure you that as you begin to use the kanji more and more in actual Japanese, the English keywords will fade because you will have stronger connections between the kanji and pronunciation as well as its connotations than the English keyword.
There are people in both camps, but I've seen so many people who know a whole lot of Japanese but know less than 500 kanji (while I know an estimated 3500 so far + more Japanese than them because I can read everything) that I think you should just get it over with, counterproductive or not.
As far as I've gotten into Genki, the only problem I've encountered are the r- syllables. I've grown up with both the English and German pronunciation of r (which are completely different) and somehow I just can't get it right in Japanese.
Is there a trick or a bunch of words that resembles this sound?
I see what you're getting at. I've used the RTK Kana book to get into them and the little stories have almost completely vanished by now.
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Anonymous2011-03-20 11:21
>>865 the consonants are pretty much identical.
失礼します but some pronunciation is hard to figure out correctly, like that shitsurei. Fortunately, wwwjdic has audio samples.
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Anonymous2011-03-21 4:13
>>867
The best way (in my opinion) to describe it is as a combination of 'l' and 'd'. Confusing, yes, but here's how I originally found the Japanese 'r':
1) Repeat 'la': "la la la la la la la..."
2) Mix in some 'da's: "la da la da la da"
3) Find the point in the middle such that you're as close to 'd' as possible without losing that slippery 'l' sound.
I'm by no means an expert, but that's the general area you should be aiming for. If you find and repeat an audio clip that contains more らりるれろs than usual, you should be able to fine tune it. When watching TV shows later on in your study, try to repeat any phrase you recognise with the same pronunciation and tones.
>>868
Touche. But a beginner needn't worry about that just yet IMO. As you rightly said, there's usually audio samples available whether on wwwjdic or wherever you originally heard it.
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Anonymous2011-03-21 12:34
>>869
It's pretty close to what they call flap. Flaps are found in middle consonants in words such as "rider," "ladder," etc.
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Anonymous2011-03-21 14:50
I'm not sure if this has been answered before, since I will just now start to read all the threads (newfag here).
I just recently started studying japanese, I have a grip on hiragana and half katakana now (following the Human Japanese course, it's working fucking miracles here).
I have a question though. Is there a reliable translator/dictionary where I can just write down in romaji and obtain an english translation? I tried google and babylon, but they seem to miss a lot of words.
davidwilliamsonandgage@yahoo.com
everybody, email here. just spam until you explode
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Anonymous2011-03-21 18:09
あしたは日本語のクラスがありません。
Came across this sentence in Genki. What's that は doing there? Shouldn't it be something else? I know it can't be に, but isn't there some other particle?
>>874
Usually you wouldn't use に with あした. In general with time expressions you can make the time you're talking about the subject of the sentence by using には or just は.
Hi Thread :3 The dictionary says 変幻 means transformation and is pronounced へんげん. After watching over 9000 Naruto episodes I'm very sure it's pronounced just へんげ. Without the ん at the end. What gives? I suspect a rule about dropping the final ん that I'm not aware of.
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Anonymous2011-03-22 11:00
こんにちは
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Anonymous2011-03-22 13:55
>>880
No unearthly idea. Are you sure you aren't hearing wrong?
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Anonymous2011-03-22 15:48
I am finishing my Kendo basic-course and i would like to thank my teachers with a small gift. I would like to have text saying “Students road is a rocky path. Teachers road is a rocky mountain path.” on the gift in japanese. Can you help with the translation?
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Anonymous2011-03-22 17:10
>>883
「学生の道は岩だらけ道である」
"[The]student[']s road is a rocky path"
「先生の道は岩だらけ山道である」
"[The]teacher[']s road is a rocky mountain path"
Similar to the softening or shortening of 'u' and 'i' sounds, if 'n' comes at the end of a word (and is followed by other), its often softened, but still perceptible.
Unfortunately, that doesn't help your situation. Watching more episodes of Naruto than any human should does not make you more perceptive; likely, just the contrary. Post a link to an episode with what you think you're hearing and I'll be able to give you a more definite answer.
>>890
Yeah it's definitely hengen, there are plenty of times where the ん is so soft in the word.
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Anonymous2011-03-23 12:18
>>891 >>892
Ok, it's decided then. I'm clearly a nigger and should kill myself. That aside... so you can actually hear a ん? Like... rly? So へんげ would be pronounced differently from the videos, with even less ん?
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Anonymous2011-03-23 13:34
>>893
According to wiki, its 変化、but it still obviously means "transformation" not "goblin/spirit/etc."
There's something about Japanese that I find interesting. The word "いいえ", meaning "no", sounds similar to the English word "Yeah", which means quite the opposite.
>>895
not a weeaboo, but Korean is kind of funny. Yes in Korean sounds like a cross between Dutch nee and English no.
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Anonymous2011-03-24 11:55
>>894
Thank you kind Anon, this I find pretty conclusive. Too bad I'm not quite at the point where I could have found out myself. Yet.
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Anonymous2011-03-25 4:31
>>895
I find it more interesting that "女" sounds a little like "woman."
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Anonymous2011-03-25 4:55
９００ＧＥＴ！
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Anonymous2011-03-26 3:58
Hi, just wondering if someone could either translate or summarize the top post on this blog here: http://usami-mi.jugem.jp/
The singer does/did Vocaloid and anime songs (she has a very sweet voice too), and she happens to be one of my favorite singers.
From my limited knowledge in Japanese, it sounded like she was apologizing for an unauthorized live at Yoyogi park, which was an evacuation site when the earthquake and tsunami happened, even though it was a fund-raising event. Everyone in NicoNico Douga seemed pretty pissed at her, so I was wondering if there was something I was missing.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Anonymous2011-03-26 5:10
I asked in the earlier thread this same question but i never was able to write down the answer so ill ask it again.
I am finishing up my basic kendo course and i would like to give a little gift to my teachers. I would like to have japanese text saying something like "students road is a rocky path. teachers road is rocky mountain path.". Can you help /lang/?
>>901
”I wanted to write an article on Ameblo but because the surplus
of comments would probably put strain on the server, taking Ameblo's side into consideration, every blog has been deleted. Because reprinting or diverting the e-mails I've received is not being allowed, I'm unable to fully disclose anything but the reason is "Deletion due to a violation of usage agreement". It had been clearly specified that deleted blogs cannot be restored so it looks like reviving the same blog using the same ID won't work. I'm sorry but please do try and understand.
I picked up the below from the cache, and had it checked against and revised further with regard to the the current article. Still, with regard to things like the after party, because of considerable difference with the facts, I cannot provide any answers. On this occasion, everything that suits the facts is provided below. ”
========
About the matter of March 13th at Yoyogi Park, I'm receiving a collection of valuable opinions. Thank you very much.
From here, I think I'd like to be allowed the opportunity to communicate my own thoughts in my own words.
In the daytime of March 12th, it began when I first tweeted that I wanted to do something with things like acoustic guitars or live singing on the street. That was already a murmur of the emotion that welled-up inside of me but, after that, night fell and I saw that a discussion had arisen between various individuals about the then yet to be determined time and thought "I knew it, let's do this". The murmur came again, and I began carrying out the events of March 13th, using the phrase "Appearance".
Without so much as a concrete announcement I set about it but only got close to 50 people to gather as a result. On March 15th I went to I donate all the funds placed in my care by those who those who came yesterday to watch, as well as those who happened to pass by and stopped.
The name of the payer is my own personal name. For many years, I've been filing my final income tax return so I naturally know that I'll be able to subtract the donation from my taxes. But there's no way I'm even considering anything of my tax return for next year. Furthermore, towards the fact that the fund-raising-box that had been photographed at the outset was a ポーチ [TL: I don't know what ポーチ is, probably some nice brand of something], the reason I ended up using a bag was because the ポーチ was not my possession to begin with. Because it was something I borrowed as a temporary box, after the end of the fund-raising, I put what I had been entrusted with in a bag.
Though the original plan was for a completely unplugged event, despite that, I used a AA battery so the last hour cannot really be called "unplugged". Towards that point, I had been lax in my forethought. I sincerely apologize.
The reason I chose Yoyogi Park as the location for the event was because everyone had been discussing the idea and I wanted to follow along but also because it was an "Emergency Evacuation Site". If anything happened, that location would be able to be our own evacuation site as it was.
The park of the appointed day contained families having picnics, lovers, people practicing with their instruments, people walking their dog, people playing badminton; there were so many smiling faces. Of course, there were also people practicing dances and people letting others hear their performances.
>>909
Oof... A wall of Japanese text is still daunting for me.
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Part 22011-03-26 12:48
>>901
”Everyone was seeking a restful, altogether normal day, and showed up to spend time together on that warm, usual as of recent, yesterday. In regard to the planning of this occasion, I did not acquire the park's permission. Neither do I now have a remedy to explain the point that I did not follow the correct procedure, one which should have been followed. If I in any way hindered the plans of those who would have liked to do something similar as a result, I am terribly sorry.
In the days following, I had the privilege of complying with Yoyogi Park. I offered my apologies and explanation regarding the unauthorized musical performances, singing, and fund-raising events and brought the matter to a close after receiving a stern warning.
To those who gathered on that day, as a result, I have truly made myself out to be a character worthy of ridicule. I am sorry. I was thoughtless this time. Somehow, without worrying about every single person, I would like to be able to have everyone overcome starting today.I am truly thankful and truly sorry.
For those who had harbored some discomfort over these events, I can offer no excuse. You may trouble over what I say but one way or another, from this point on, please take care to support the most needy disaster areas.
Towards the chain of events in relation to this occasion, neither the Dowango Corporation nor Nico Nico Douga have any concern.
As a result, I have caused so much trouble for so many people, I sincerely apologize for it.”
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Anonymous2011-03-26 21:08
>>909 >>912
The untranslated bit was "pouch". Thanks for translating all the rest though.
I guess the reason why she's getting all those hate messages is due to her behaviour when she was explaining what happened to the authorities, and when she decided to use her own name as the Donor of those funds she raised.
She may not have been thinking things through enough, but she certainly doesn't deserve all the hate she's getting recently on her blogs and Nico Video. Those haters are crazy I tell you.
What does "まっがーれ" mean? I've seen it used when Japanese attempt to speak to foreigners. For example, an American asked, "Where is the post office?" and the Japanese person responded, "GO SUTOREETO ANDO REFUTO. MAGGAARE!"
And help would be appreciated.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 14:45
まっがーれ means TURN, so you are right.
and famous animation(from melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya) character, Koizumi Ikki just said まっがーれ, nothing special meaning.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 18:18
>>917
it's 曲がれ、or まがれ、any double syllables and exaggerated ones are made by the person.
Hey guys, I'm just want to see if this sentence makes any sense, I'm trying to say that I was the last guy able to buy cake, the catch is I have to start the sentence with "私まで", so, how is it?
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Anonymous2011-03-30 1:00
>>927
＞”I have to start the sentence with "私まで"
Why? In my experience, that construction sounds a little awkward for the kind of sentence you're looking for. I would say:
（私は）最後のケーキを買えた人でした。
”I was the last guy able to buy cake”
The only way I can think to compose that sentence is:
私までケーキを買うことが出来ました。（買う可能性がありました）
Up until me, it was possible to buy cake.
It was the teacher's condition. We were doing a particle exam and we all bombed. And thanks!
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Anonymous2011-03-30 9:42
>>928
God damn that sounds so stiff... Why do teachers do that?
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Anonymous2011-03-30 17:13
One problem I've been running into while studying vocabulary is I'm practicing, trying to use the words I've learned but then I end up using something that isn't used colloquially, only in text.
How the hell do I find out if something is colloquially used besides being told I'm incorrect?
At what point is it acceptable to assume I'll never be about to understand spoken Japanese? I have done over 5,000 Japanese sentences as per the AJATT method, gave that up for vocab in isolation and recently started a Anki deck where I am required to hear the word and translate. You'd think I'd be better at it by now. Granted there are periods of true clarity as though it were my first tongue but those are extremely few and far between.
What pray tell should I look for upon Googling "L-R"? By the by, I've cached roughly 140 hours in listening. Yes, I realize that isn't enough but frankly it's disheartening.
Nevermind about the "L-R" business, a bit of Google-fu eventually paid off. I've heard of this method but I never put much stock in it. While I'm not opposed to trying it, at a cursory glance it doesn't seem like the sort of magic bullet people make it out to be. Not that I am looking for one mind you, I'm just skeptical.
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Anonymous2011-03-30 20:43
>>937
There's a lot of threads out there about it, just google around a bit more. I've just started with it for Spanish, so I can't comment, but there's quite a few people who have used it (albeit a little bit modified to fit their tastes) with good results. Some people have said that when they did it at the intermediate level it really helped with aural comprehension.
And while the creator of it says it works best when done for a shit ton of hours at a time, some others have said they've have good success with just 2 or 3 hours a day when at the intermediate level, but most everyone agrees that when starting as a beginner you need to do like 5 hours a day and crazy shit
Can someone help me out with understanding the usage of 出せる? My Googling has taught me that it's the potential form and is apparently a contraction of "dasu koto ga dekimasu". So from my understanding, 出せる is like saying "to be able to show", right?
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Anonymous2011-03-31 10:42
>出せる is like saying "to be able to show"
That is the definition of the potential form, yes, 出せる is being able to do 出す. But it has many more meanings than simply "to show". Hopefully this isn't the first time you've run into potentials or how to conjugate; and if it is: stop, go back, and study.
「やっと宿題を終わらせたため、明朝の提出期限までに出せます」
”I finally finished my homework so I'll be able to turn it in tomorrow"
「大震災のせいでそのテレビ局は新たな広告を出せないみたいです」
"It looks like that TV station won't be able to run their new ad because of the earthquake"
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Anonymous2011-03-31 22:40
大学に何を持ってきますか。
What the hell is this asking? 'What did you carry in the university?'? I don't get it.
Even in English, "What did you carry in the university" is a very awkward sentence. "What did you carry 'to' [or bring to] the university" flows better with the actual intention behind the sentence.
"What do you bring [or will you bring] to the university?" is the actual meaning here.
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Anonymous2011-03-31 23:22
>>943
Yeah, I knew that but it slipped my mind when typing and I didn't bother correcting it.
Thanks.
I guess the question just sounded weird to me, like something you normally wouldn't ask someone. It's like asking "What do you take with you when you go jogging?".
There's something I'm curious about. I'm not studying Japanese, but I've watched some noticed in Japanese videos/movies/song lyrics that whenever someone says something like "help", "look", "don't do this", the verb ends in the vowel 'e'.
Does ending the verb with 'e' make it a command/imperative? Or something like that.
>955
It's called a dakuten.
It's a voicing marker. For characters that start with a plosive consonant, the consonant becomes voiced, and for everything else, a B is added. That's the gist. Rule of thumb: if there's a "soft" version of the consonant, that's usually what it turns into.
So か ka becomes が ga, た ta becomes だ da, etc; へ he becomes べ be and ほ ho becomes ぼ bo.
There are some complications, though; for example ふ fu with a dakuten ぶ is not vu but bu. If you know what voiceless plosive consonants are you'll probably be able to see the regularities, but otherwise I think you're better off just memorising which become "soft" versions and which get a B instead.
>>960
P.S.
Hang on, that's not entirely right. It's not just for plosive consonants. さ sa becomes ざ za, too. And that's the same kind of consonant as in ふ fu.
I guess it's just kind of irregular, then.
Well, then, I guess you just need to memorise the lot. You'll have to do so sooner or later anyway in order to become fluent.
Are you using Anki?
>>955>>960-961
The traditional grammar says the same as >>960-961, but the dakutens also used for other purposes recently.
To describe simply a louder voice, as >>955 said, or a croaking voice such as caused by cold.
That usually expresses discouragement.
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Anonymous2011-04-04 8:22
>>933
1) Consume lots more Japanese media. You should be consuming 30-50 hours (or more) of Japanese media on a weekly basis (yes, you're allowed to repeat things, but try to make at least a half of the week's material new).
2) Imitate what you hear when you're alone. Say it at the same speed.
3) Get some Japanese friends and speak in Japanese with them, you anti-social freak
4) If you have been using subtitles, turn them off.
Honestly, 140 hours is nothing. You haven't been following the AJATT method at all - you should be getting through 140 hours on a monthly basis; you should be consuming way MORE media than a Japanese person does because you're playing catchup.
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Anonymous2011-04-04 14:08
Recently I came across a compilation of Japanese textbooks and guides (it was an e-book collection).
I would like you guys to please help me decide which books to pick up first and which ones to focus on.
-Genki Series
-Remembering the Kanji Series
-Japanese for Busy people
-A handbook of Japanese Grammar
-Japanese in Mangaland
-Pimsluer
Also, it seems that people favour KanjiDamage over Heisig series, so I might just download the e-book for that instead.
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Anonymous2011-04-04 16:02
>>964
Start with genki. Don't know shit about the other books. Outside of a Barrons japanese grammar book I haven't used a textbook.
Fuck Heisig, yay Kanjidamage. Don't e-book that shit. Make your own flashcards and take them with you.
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Anonymous2011-04-04 23:12
What is the meaning of "de" when it's used at the end of a sentence, like in telling someone, "泣かないで"? Is it just a contraction of "desu" or is it actually the particle "de"?
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Anonymous2011-04-04 23:41
>>966
In the form you posted: a command less strong than an imperative.
>>966
It's most likely the particle. Your example "泣かないで" means "please do not cry".
Probably such a sentence can be regarded as a condensed.
For instance, "行かないで" means like "行かないで欲しい", "I don't want you to go", "家で"(as an answer) would mean "in my house", "電車で"(as an answer) may mean "by train", and "なんで?" means "Why?" just like in English.
>>970
What do you mean? I couldn't understand it.
If you wrote as "how does ',' function 1,426 in Japanese", it's just a separator, not a decimal point. "1,426" is the same as 1426.
I'm searching for english translation of "GAL-O Sengen" song by Policeman, and can't find it anywhere. Does anyone have it? Or care to translate? I would be very grateful. Band's website does not have english lyrics, and i can't find any translations using google.
I'm searching for english translation of "GAL-O Sengen" song by Policeman, and can't find it anywhere. Does anyone have it? Or care to translate? I would be very grateful. Band's website does not have english lyrics, and i can't find any translations using google.
I'm searching for english translation of "GAL-O Sengen" song by Policeman, and can't find it anywhere. Does anyone have it? Or care to translate? I would be very grateful. Band's website does not have english lyrics, and i can't find any translations using google.
Thanks in advance.
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Anonymous2011-04-05 12:09
spam unintended, sorry
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Anonymous2011-04-05 12:20
>>975
If you can post a link with text of the Japanese lyrics, I can translate. I think I know what I'm hearing but I could give you a definite answer with text.
Hey guys, I'm about to finish my fourth semester of Japanese in university, but since it's not really related to my major, being more of a hobby, I've found that I can't really fit upper levels of Japanese into my schedule after this. I certainly would like to continue studying it, but I'm not really sure where to go from here on my own.
By the end of this semester I'll have finished the two Nakama series books (go ahead and laugh, I hate them). Aside from that, I've been crawling through "Basic Technical Japanese" on occasion since it coincides with my interests, but I don't know what I should do to continue with the normal language.
Is there any textbook series or anything that would be used in a fifth semester class that I should look into getting, or would it perhaps be better to just focus on expanding my repertoire of vocabulary and kanji for now? I tried writing up a list of all the kanji I've studied and know 100%, and it only came up to maybe 450 or so.
So basically my question restated is, what's the best way to continue learning from around an intermediate level?
>>972-977
Though I'm not >>976, did too. Maybe stiff.
Many shit slangs and abbreviations are used, perhaps translating is fucking hard for who doesn't live there. And I felt this is fagsong...
Galish Man Declaration
(intro)
I go to sunburn salon to burn my skin.
[Yeah galish man declaration]
GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO! Galish Man Declaration GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO! Galish Man Declaration
GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO! Galish Man Declaration GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO! Fu Fu-!
(Verse1)
Yo! I began be a galish man. Got out of the B-style. My pants is body-hugging.
Well, yesterday I went to Shibuya again. My favorite food is caesar salads.
Blackface makeup and méche. Colored contact lenses. Eagerly practice of Para Para dancing.
Intoxication with the paradise. I'm representing it. I, a galish man, stay tuning.
Gold jangle, silver jangle, they're shining, (oi!) 109 sale without honor and humanity.
All my body is so energetically, also beach sandals, "G A L man-!"
(Chorus)
I ate mushrooms. (GO!GO!GO!GO!) I listened to trance. (GO!GO!GO!GO!)
I'm being elated more and more. (GO!GO!GO!GO!) I love you all guys. (GO!GO!GO!GO!)
(Verse2)
Honestly, it's really very good, isn't it? Now, it became the talk.
With my slightly raised spirit which is quite excited and much able to penetrate, a galish man's great adventure, OK?
PARTY zombie. I'm optimistic. Anyway, I love clubs pretty much.
Dance vigorously. Come on, welocome. Somehow a day is enriched so much
"Cool men, galish, brother-style". Though here're many genres, they're rotherboo.
I want them to know eventually we've met each other. Such a chance is less, only rarely.
From terribly cute cute girls to creepy freaks, I have generosity to accept them gladly.
This rapping is like gold picked up. Hey, using it liberally make us pleasant.
We are, oh, the coolest. We have been the coolest, even though after we aged.
Invincible mode. Legend of the strongest. We can grow easilier when someone praise us.
I drive and keep the center of roads, appeal to a beautiful older-sister-style girl and get her phone number soon.
Even if locking / silent mode or one phone ring / last minute cancellation, but "G A L man-!"
(Chorus)
I ate mushrooms. (GO!GO!GO!GO!) I listened to trance. (GO!GO!GO!GO!)
I've been elated more and more. (GO!GO!GO!GO!) I love you all guys. (GO!GO!GO!GO!)
(Break)
(Fook)
Velfarre. Exile. Don Quijote. Utahiroba.
(School, Employment, Marriage, Old age)
Monta Mino, Alife, Vaiśravaṇa, Ba-Bang-Ba-Bang-Bang-Bang
(School, Employment, Marriage, Old age)
(Chorus)
I ate mushrooms. (GO!GO!GO!GO!) I listened to trance. (GO!GO!GO!GO!)
I've been elated more and more. (GO!GO!GO!GO!) I love you all guys. (GO!GO!GO!GO!)
Does anyone know a good way I can REALLY get into learning japanese? Over the past 2 weeks or so i've learnt hiragana and katakana, I also know like 20 kanji and perhaps 100 vocab. Anyone have a good starting point?
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Anonymous2011-04-06 20:00
>>981
and also, how long will I have to study before I can speak japanese effectively enough to live in japan and not use that much english.
I've heard that passing JPLT2 is almost a must to be able to speak japanese correctly. However im not quite sure thats true.
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Anonymous2011-04-07 1:04
fuck you weeaboo
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Anonymous2011-04-07 9:52
>>982 >>982
Shut up. Keep studying. You will get there. Study Kanji, all of it. Study grammar. Listen to a lot of music. Watch a lot of dramas. Watch a lot of anime. Go to nicovideo.jp and watch/call into live broadcasts.
There is no "when" that you will magically start speaking and understanding japanese well. It just happens and you eventually notice it.
I think, you can memorize Kanji and Japanese words not only by studying but also by listening, watching, reading and so on, however, it is very difficult to acquire grammar without textbooks or such guides.
It's not so different to other foreign languages.
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Anonymous2011-04-07 11:58
>>985 this is what I meant, what books should I use etc
>>984 I know that,i simply want to know the best way to learn, such as what sources to use
Today I saw a small vocabulary word list of English words coined in Japan and link here.
English names and American names are also written.
This site contains other word lists too; it's for Japanese learning English so each page is written basically in Japanese.
Ok, I've got a question. So, how can I say "from that point on..." in Japanese? I don't know whether it should be some sort of kara/made, because there's no end-point there, or whether it's some other grammar structure.
This is an useful online dictionary site: 英和辞典・和英辞典 - Weblio辞書 http://ejje.weblio.jp/
It is for Japanese, but covers quite a few English idioms and the items have many links to others. However, in some case, the dictionary shows you too many senses.
Click brown-colored 項目を検索 and you'll get a search result.
If you see "見つかりませんでした", that means: nothing was found. In this case, some example senetences would be shown next to "例文一覧". You can see more by clicking "...の例文をもっと見る".
"検索結果" page is just a search result list, not the body of the dictionary. If you get moved to 検索結果 page, choose an appropriate item and click it.
Search method options (drop-down list) :
と一致する : Looking up CORRESPONDING words.
で始まる : Looking up words STARTING with your input.
を含む : Looking up words INCLUDING your input.
で終わる : Looking up words ENDING with your input.
を解説文に含む : Looking up words whose expository text includes your input.
White tabs and blue ones (in the middle of the page) :
意味 : Meaning
例文 : Example sentences (very convenient)
類語 : Synonyms (also convenient, you can see the details by clicking "もっと詳しく見る")
共起表現 : Collocation
Brown tabs and orange ones (in the top of the page) :
辞書 : Other dictionaries and encyclopedias
類語辞典 : Thesauruses of synonyms
英和・和英辞典 : English-Japanese and J-E dictionaries
手話辞典 : Sign-language dictionaries
思わず seems strange because the adverb is usually used with a verb expressing a response to an occurrence.
鉤 means not "lock" but "hook".
出なくなって sounds as if she had not wanted to leave the room. You could need to use the auxiliary verb -rare or other to describe the impossibility or omit that main verb.