日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 3

If you have a question about the language, ask it and fellow 4channers might see it and answer it for you.


Japanese Ask Questions Thread2
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1206158123/1-40

>>200
ペンは片仮名で書けなければなりません is formal.
ペンは片仮名で書けなければならないんです is formal. The speaker is trying to convince the lister.
Others have no big difference. Use your favourite one. I usually use なきゃ too.

Questions about pronoun "ware". Wikipedia has nothing under "notes" section. Only says that it's very formal just as "watakushi". So, what does this mean?

>>202
I think it's a kinda archaic 'I'. As I know you can hear this nowadays as 'ware-ware' [我々], from someone who is representing his company.

>>203

I find it interesting that the kanji for 'ware' is identical to the modern Chinese hanza for 'I'.

I was thinking how I could write my name in Japanese, but I can't find the name readings (afaik that's called nanori) anywhere.

My name is Miika, and it's pronounced exactly like みいか, I could only find the kanji 已 which has the nanori reading み.

Any kind of help is welcome.

>>205
I don't know if that actually helps, but I did some searching.
According to what I found, Miika is the Finnish version of "Michael", which name means something like "Who is like God?". So I guess it's "someone resembling God." So I just put the kanji of 'God', and 'resemble' together. This is either '神酷似' or just '神似'. I'm no kanji expert, but I used this method to find kanji for my name. [Gergő > Gregory > Watcher > Mamoru (well, it would be Yotogi, but I couldn't find kanji for that because I suck) > 守]
I guess this is not what you're looking for but I thought I'd share this. This link however might help you:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SilkRoad-Forest/6130/kanji/jinmei/jinmei.html

>>206
That's actually pretty awesome, thank you.

And I don't really know shit about Japanese names (not to mention foreign names in Japanese) so I just tried to find the kanji which had the nanori readings for mi, i and ka, I didn't remember that they could be formed like that as well.

Pretty neat that the kanji 神 can also be read み.

But how is 神酷似 / 神似 pronounced? Do I just use "Miika" and explain it every time or should I call myself like you read those kanji?

>According to what I found, Miika is the Finnish version of "Michael", which name means something like "Who is like God?".

Yeah, spot on.

>>207
Yeah well, I just happened to think of this method when I wanted to find kanji for my name. In my case it was pretty easy though, as a name with the same meaning as mine already existed in Japanese.

So, I don't know too much about kanji or names either, I just depend on what I can found on the intrawebs. I don't think '神似' exist as a japanese name (at least I haven't found a name with these kanji), but according to what I can find, the onyomi of these two characters are:
神: shin [しん] / jin [じん]  似: ji [じ]

So that'd make Shinji.  [しんじ]
(I think 神酷似 would be long)
Either that, or just go with Miika = 神似

Okay, so I also looked through Wiktionary and found these:

[み=
美: beautiful, pretty, pleasing]

[い=
胃: stomach
位: position
意: will, soul
井: well]

[か=
蚊: mosquito
科: family (biological classification)
香: aroma, scent, fragrance]

That's all I can come up with, so you might just want to select the kanjis you like the most.

You could also leave the i [い] out, so it becomes Mika [みか][美香], which is an existing japanese name. However, it seems to be a female name in Japan.

Whew... I'm no expert so there may be something I messed up, but I think I could come up with a few options for you to choose from. I hope it helped.

[+trivia (if anyone cares)]
Gergő (Gregory) means watchful, vigilatnt, so I put "care, precaution, guarding" + "to protect, to guard" together, and Lo, I have a full japanese name.
用心 [ようじん]  守 [まもる]

みいか sounds like a Japanese name.
It didn't exist as a Japanese name in the past, but young people tend to give names like this to their daughter these days.

みか and みい are both popular names.
みか is written as 美香, 美佳, 美嘉, 実花, 美華, 未佳 and many more.
It is not impossible to read these as みいか, so this is one option.

Another option is to combine the Kanjis used for みい with a Kanji for か, such as 未依 + 香 and 美唯 + 花.

The last option, which I don't recommend you, is to use 当て字.
当て字 is to use Kanji that doesn't correspond to Kana; this means nobody can read it at first sight.
Reading 神酷似/神似 as みいか is this type of Kanji usage.
Such a strange Kanji combination is what either Japanese learners or stupid parents prefer.
Additionally, 酷 means terrible in Japanese although It seems to mean cool in Chinese.

>>209
Additionally, 酷 means terrible in Japanese although It seems to mean cool in Chinese.

Don't tell me that すごい originally meant something positive ;)

>>209
>daughter

Well yeah, the problem is that Miika/Miikka/Mika are male names in Finland.

>>208
>Shinji

Whoa.

So here's my situation

I finished the kana weeks ago and just received my Genki I text book, work book, answer key and audio CDs. I'm a self-learner and had no trouble with the kana. However now starting to get into actual grammar, conversation and the like I'm finding it very difficult to relate what I learn to actual conversation since I've nobody around me to help practice with or listen to. A down side to self-learning I suppose; no class room environment to practice within.

Regardless, I'd like to keep trying, and I'm sure there are those of you out there who have found yourselves in a similar situation at one time if not currently. How did you over come this stride? Any advice would be great.

Right now I'm studying about 3 hours a day (since I work full time), using flash cards in order to learn phrases, syntax, grammar, etc. Not the best medium I've heard but I'm not sure what other available options there are.


Regards

>>212
I must admit I skipped most of the exercises in Genki, and went straight for the grammar and words instead.
I don't think you can do much about that so early on, except for saying words and phrases aloud when you're reviewing them.

Now that I'm done with the Genki books (and didn't find a suitable one to continue with), I started a voiced VN, and I'm checking out songs. That's because the text, voice and translation are easily available for them. I found these more helpful for the conversation skills than the dry textbook text.

If by flashcards you mean Anki, you should need nothing else.

What are thoughts on Rosetta Stone? I've been using it for about a year now and I can hold basic conversations and (with the help of a dictionary for stroke orders) can write/ read basic sentences. For the most part, I like RS very much due to the fact that there is not a single word of English spoken in the program and I like how the program is structured so that each section uses the last as a base while it adds much new content each section. Also, it is nice that it forces you to formulate your own sentences and speak them (which is essential to learning any language.) What I don't like is how the images can be very unspecific (like it would show an image of two people standing together and talk about height while you have no clue whatsoever what they're talking about) and the fact that it teaches you nothing about writing kana or kanji. In fact, the only thing that I could find that really helped with that was the $20 JP dictionary app for my iPod touch.

>>214
I'm not learning Japanese, but RS sucks

>>215
Works differently for different languages

>>216
They use the same format for pretty much every language, which is one reason it sucks.

>>217
Yeah, but so far, it's working pretty well with Japanese. And at least for the purpose of getting a firm grasp on the basics of the language, I would recommend it for Japanese. Don't know how some of the other ones work as I have not tried them.

>>218
Don't recommend it if it's the only thing you've tried.
Try Assimil or something, although it's better for Western languages.

>>219
I was referring to the other languages for Rosetta Stone. As for learning Japanese, I have RS, Pimsleur, Genki, 3 bilingual dictionaries (standard, colloquial, and a massive one that has stroke orders), a cultural dictionary, a vocab book, and a grammar book. I also have a cousin that speaks fluent JP as well as several good friends that are from 東京

>>220
No wonder you're doing decent, you have all of that other stuff. Some retards try learning it with just RS, which won't work. You can't learn a language with any one program.
I guess RS can be alright when used with other programs, I hope you pirated it and didn't waste money on that shit.

>>221
I think paying ~$600 for one method of learning a language (aside from 4 semesters of college-level classes) is even dumber than just using RS by itself

I have a question about the children's game Kagome-Kagome.

鶴と亀が滑った
鶴と亀と滑った

I've seen and heard both of them used in several different instances. I think that's reason enough to believe both could be correct, but what is the difference in translation? I never fully understood the usage of と　outside of "and"

What do you recommend if I don't want to use RS?

>>224
Japanese...I'm not sure. I'd suggest Pimsleur and Assimil, but I really don't know what's out there for Japanese, as I have no interest in it.
Search around on the internet. Try different types and methods of learning. Also check out Professor Arguelles' youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ProfASAr
He's a megaultrasuper polyglot who knows a crapton of languages. He's dedicated his life to them. He provides reviews of many language learning courses. This nigger knows his shit.

Good luck weeaboo scum

>>224
check through the post at
>>220
Basically, that minus the RS

>>225
>weeaboo scum
This is a help thread about the JP language. Not a Japan fanboy thread. Leave that shit at the door

>>226
Fuck you weeaboo scum, I see no door.

>>223
Most people have learnt the lyric as 鶴と亀がすべった, but I've heard the other one too.

AちゃんとBちゃんが遊んだ。
A-chan and B-chan played together.

AちゃんとBちゃんと遊んだ。
I (or someone else) played with A-chan and B-chan.

The second と means WITH.
Does this help?

WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!
WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS! WEABOOS!

>>228
I knew it could also mean with but I hadn't considered it in that context. So, when the line says と滑った it is including the speaker (or perhaps, the bird)? Thanks for your input

I'm fairly new to the language and I have a grammar question regarding subject vs indirect objects

ぼくは田中ちゃんとゲームをしています。
ぼくと田中ちゃんはゲームをしています。

Am I correct in assuming that Tanaka is the indirect object is the first sentence (I am playing a game with Tanaka-chan)
And in the second sentence, it's just multiple subjects (Tanaka-chan and I are playing a game)?

>>231
Yes, it's correct.

Here's one: The phrase
どうしたの？
means "what's the matter?"
What's the role of の in the sentence? Is it a nominalization?

>>233
I usually avoid trying to decipher expressions, they might give you the wrong idea.

Also, particles like no can have lots of meanings. In this case, I'd say no is a question marker. You can replace ka with no in informal questions, it makes the question softer and more empathetic.

>>234 is right.
どうしたの？ sounds softer than どうした？.
But note that you cannot replace ka with no in the expression in >>233.

どうしたの？　ok
どうした？　　ok
どうしたか？　wrong

できたの？　ok
できた？　　ok
できたか？　ok

Learners of Japanese may explain better why できたか is correct and どうしたか is wrong.

>>234
>>235
Thank to both of you! Other than the most common usages of the particles, I'm having a bit of trouble with the particles. This helped!

So I'm just now starting to learn Kanji from multiple sources.

1) Genki I textbook
2) Tae Kim's guide to Japanese

I'm having some difficulty trying to find direct translations from Kanji into Hiragana so I know how to pronounce them. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) when looking in a Kanji dictionary I want to be going by the kun'yomi, the Japanese usage of the Chinese characters. That's all fine and dandy but sometimes there are multiple readings with a lot of the Kanji dictionaries I use and it seems confusing to me. How do I know which one to use for flash cards?

Help!

Let's take for example 生.

There's like 51 million Kun readings for it. Should I be learning each and every reading for the specific character? Lol man, the hell did I get myself into.

>>238
Interesting how you ask this while using Genki, this is usually a problem for the Heisig users. How do you even meet standalone kanji while using Genki?

Both readings are used.
For example 風呂 (furo) uses the on readings for its kanji.

I don't think you need to learn the readings. If you see some kanji and don't know the word they stand for, you won't be able to guess the pronounciation anyway (because there are multiple choices).

I think the best way to go is by relating the kanji to words (eg when you learn the word, learn how to write it). Genki does just this, so you should be fine. You will pick up the readings as you use them to form the words.

>>239
To add to this, you don't need to memorize all of the readings (most of them are similar to others anyways) Find example of what would be common usage with the 訓読み and memorize the 2 or so most common. Same with the 音読み, just memorize the most popular ones, the less-common ones will be learned over time when you need them.