>>9
You know jack shit about what you're saying. That is an accurate translation.
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Anonymous2012-02-27 0:26
I'm trying to learn 日本語, I've got ひらがな と カタカナ down but I'm absolutely terrified of the prospect of memorizing thousands of moon runes, and it doesn't seem to be easy to look up the kanji for a word or find what word a kanji is in a dictionary due to the only real organization system being number of brush strokes. Currently I'm focusing on particles: は, に, の, から-まで, を, へ... I've wanted to get practice in by reading manga, since that would give me incentive to learn and memorize things since I could read it without having to stop to look everything up each panel. However not many manga I've looked at have furigana, and with the difficulty of looking up an alien kanji I mentioned it's difficult. I'm trying to find a way I could make it work, since I know I need some motivation like that or else I won't even try, but once I have it I'm a dedicated learner.
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Anonymous2012-02-27 2:46
>>12
This may depend on the person learning, but from my experience, learning words is a much greater pain than learning kanji. Besides, when you learn kanjis you get words for free! IMO, remembering that something as simple as "doctor" is "isha" is difficult because there's nothing to tie it to. (or wasn't when I learned the word) Then we got "psychology", which is "heart logic school", simple no? And I know what they look like and what they may sound like etc, so I know that "psychology" becomes "shinrigaku". Of course this is not how I "fetch" the word once I've learned it, but it's an excellent tool for learning words as well.
And learning the kanji is a piss in the ocean compared to everything else you have to learn, so it would be silly to fret those just because you can actually see the whole ice berg on that one.
Oh and there are plenty of ways of looking up a kanji, not just brush strokes. In your case with the manga, you could also look them up by radicals and maybe some other way, I'm fairly unfamiliar with looking those up.
>>12
For furigana, most shonen manga have furigana. Unless you expected manga aimed at young adults to have furigana?
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Anonymous2012-02-27 18:34
>>12 it is a bit difficult to jump straight into adult manga without knowing a thousand or so of the more common kanji first, since they'll all seem alien and you won't have the foundation to look them up effectively.
If you're determined, you can do it, but you might find it less frustrating to incrementally move towards that stage first, and find simpler material that you enjoy.
日本人はチンコが小さい
I am Japanese, and I say like this. >>7 is a little bit unnatural >>18 ちっちゃい sounds childish.
both of the two are grammatically correct, and mean the same thing, though.
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Anonymous2012-02-29 15:40
Japanese /lang/, I need your advice and help! I bought Genki II and the corresponding, green workbook for my Japanese classes back in college.
Well I'm out of college now and rapidly losing my Japanese ability. I figure a great place to start to get it back up to snuff would be redoing the Genki II workbook, but I obviously can't "grade" my answers myself.
Is there an answer key for the workbook that I can use for my self-study??? I've been asking Google for days now, and I can't find jack shit! Any help would be appreciated.
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Anonymous2012-03-01 8:37
>>20
Just how shitty at googling stuff are you? Yes, there's an answer key.
I'd rather recommend skimming through the lessons and listening to the tapes, then move on to something heavier asap with genki as a backup when you need it.
>12
you can also find kanji by looking up their radicals, parts dictionaries or with the IME pad in windows, though you must get a hang of how kanji are drawn before being good at using IME
>>28
because they carry different nuances to them and often when a less common kanji is used for a word it's because it's in writing and the author wanted to make it look more "novel".
分かる 判る
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Anonymous2012-03-05 23:22
速い = speed (as through space)
早い = time
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Anonymous2012-03-06 14:38
What's the different between 造る、作る and 創る?
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Anonymous2012-03-06 16:20
>>31
造る: manufacture-like processes
作る： most common, all around applicable use
創る: making things in a creative sense art etc.
You are not alone, I asked that exact same question to someone long ago.
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Anonymous2012-03-07 17:04
check my doubles
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Anonymous2012-03-07 17:49
PENISる - to PENIS
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Anonymous2012-03-09 23:09
Was gonna download Warcraft III in jap, but the only option is 繁體中文, which is traditional Chinese. I'm only in the phase of learning kanji, so idk how interchangeable these are. Anyone know if I could dl this and be fine for jap?
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Anonymous2012-03-10 19:52
>>35
The characters are the same, but that's like trying to learn Spanish by playing a game in German because it uses the same alphabet.
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Anonymous2012-03-11 10:43
Is there any difference in the pronunciation of ず and づ ? If no, why do I see some words in the dictionary transcribed with one and not the other, is it just tradition?
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Anonymous2012-03-11 10:57
I just came here to ask: how should I learn the language? I'm downloading the Japanese for Busy People textbooks and this Tell Me More software.
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Anonymous2012-03-11 19:36
>>37
Yes. Just like there's a difference between す and つ.
>>38
What kind of a question is that? Either you have some interest in the language/culture, or you flat out don't give a shit. If it's the former, then you need to learn some things about learning first; visit the site alljapaneseallthetime.com and disregard any faggot's advice here until you've read the first 2 sections. Happy learning - it's gonna be fun, I promise.
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Anonymous2012-03-12 19:02
check 'em
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Anonymous2012-03-17 9:22
bomb the japs
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Anonymous2012-03-18 7:07
you are now breathing and blinking manually
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Anonymous2012-03-18 18:10
Does anyone know where to get Japanese ebooks?
I only know of http://www.aozora.gr.jp/ but I was looking for more recent works.
>>47
you could check the ads on the site you linked
i don't know anyone who doesn't read their books on paper
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Anonymous2012-03-20 14:57
>>37
It has to do with the origin of those words. It's kind of like German umlauts. "Mouse" is "Maus" and "mice" is "Mäuse", not "Meuse" (which sounds the same but doesn't exist). "Äu" is used instead of "eu" because it reflects the "au" that's used in "Maus".
ず and づ can be pronounced as either "zu" or "dzu" without loss of meaning.
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Anonymous 2012-03-21 8:17
Hello /lang/, how should one use the 「してある」 verb suffix in conversations? Furthermore, if it has a negative form, which I guess it would be 「してない」、 how can we distinguish it with the shorter version of 「していない」 which is also 「してない」?
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Anonymous2012-03-22 0:03
I want to memorize all the moon runes. I have no knowledge of the language so I'm not sure what this hiragana or katakana or ninja or whatever it is, but what's the best way to start learning all of them? and which type would i start with
this room has been cleaned up.
=この部屋(へや)は掃除(そうじ)してある
I've already prepared.
=私(わたし)はもう準備(じゅんび)してある。
in these translations the speaker focuses on "current" state (1st sentences may be easy to grasp that, the verb clean is used like an adjective), thus uses current present form.
i quoted perfect sentences as examples so such translations are also correct;私はもう準備しました。as you see, this is past form and one doesn't emphasizes state but declare "I've already finished."
as to second question, "site-i-nai" is correct on grammar and formal to say or write."site-nai" is just spoken language, the middle "i" has been ommited on liaisoning itwith previous "e".
Mouse. It's something I want to use on the computers at my school as I've got a lot of down time between classes, so I'd prefer if it's online and not something I'd have to download seeing how I'd be using the school's computer.
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ALNu2012-03-29 16:27
Alright, here's a question.
Can you guys help me out with an assignment I have for school?
I need to make a short song in Japanese. Now, I have a slight understanding, but not enough. Any chance you can help?
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Anonymous2012-03-29 20:28
>>59
Is this an assignment for a Japanese class? What do you want exactly?
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Anonymous2012-03-30 1:54
tits or gtfo
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Anonymous2012-03-30 7:34
Hello, I would like to know if, with my current level of knowledge, reading these three books will be any useful. I mean, do I know too little to understand them or make use of what they teach?
I used to know the kana but forgot them and will learn them again soon, took one year of light lessons but know the basics of japanese grammar, and some vocabulary.
Hello, I would like to know if, with my current level of knowledge, reading these three books will be any useful. I mean, do I know too little to understand them or make use of what they teach?
I used to know the kana but forgot them and will learn them again soon, took one year of light lessons but know the basics of japanese grammar, and some vocabulary.
>64
Genki is shit, and it's not even good for kanji. Any kanji website is good. If you have to use any of a million shitty beginners' textbooks, at least Nakama has some semblance of organization.
In 「くつとくつ下をはいていませ」
why is を used instead of わ whereas
「くつわはいていませ」and「くつしたわはいていませ」 both use わ？
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Anonymous2012-04-04 14:04
>>70
"Not wearing shoes or socks." is what you're trying to get at right? That should be "kutsu to kutsushita wo haite imaseN".
'wa' is written は when used to indicate the topic. For the 3 above sentences, using を seem the most logical since you are directly manipulating an object. 靴を履く(kutsu wo haku) with を being used, is what I usually see.
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Anonymous2012-04-05 0:10
Hi /lang/
I'm practicing Japanese by translating some songs but I'm having a hard time with these phrases, could you review my translations:
マカロニの穴みたく 細くて頼りない
makaroni no ana mitaku komaku te tayori nai
If you examine a macaroni, you will see that it's weak and thin
君もいまいち 反応薄いし
kun moimaichi hannou usui shi
just like you and your responses
ねえ声をかけて 風の隙間は
nee koe wokakete kaze no sukima ha
call my name through the winds
いつも寂しいから ちょっと
itsumo sabishii kara chotto
Because I'm always a little lonely
ねえ夢を見せて 冷めたココアじゃ
nee yume wo mise te same ta kokoa ja
let the me show you my dreams as we wait for the cocoa to cool down
なにか寂しいから ちょっと
nanika sabishi ikara chotto
Because I've been lonely
同じ未来 見つけ出したなら
onaji mirai mitsukedashita nara
if we both find ourselves in the same future
Thanks in advance
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CAPTAIN LETSGO! !8VYJWGD20Q2012-04-05 0:17
Hello! I am looking for a good place to start learning japanese seriously. I know kana and basic grammar (basic sentence structure, basic pronouns, basic conjunctions, ~ます, ~たい、~ません, ~ました, です) . I want to learn more vocabulary and more complex grammar, for both reading and conversation (mainly understanding conversation, as I want to watch Japanese films and shows, and listen to Japanese music, but also for writing to people online). So far I've been learning using the iPhone apps "Japanese Flash" (very extensive and helpful) and "Mirai Japanese" (not extensive at all, but helpful for the very basics). I'm a quick learner, I learned kana in under a month. Pronunciation is not an issue for me. Your help is greatly appreciated!
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Anonymous2012-04-05 2:18
Thanks for moving it here from /jp/.
みたく is a slang adverbial form of the suffix みたい (ordinarily it would be みたいに, but due to the fact that it looks like an い adjective, people say みたく sometimes). みたい means "in the way of" or just "like" so a more appropriate translation would be
"(you are/it is) thin and unreliable, like the hole in macaroni"
Also, it's ほそくて not こまくて. こまかい is where we see that reading.
Second one: yours is close except it suffers from the error in the previous sentence:
"You are not quite there, not responding much"
きみ not くん. くん is used for the honorific and in combined readings only.
This も has been described as 詠嘆のも among other things. Essentially, it does not necessarily mean "also" or "even" but can rather be used to be lightly poetic, very common in soliloquy and in song (reference: http://www.geocities.jp/niwasaburoo/18fukujosi.html#18.12)
Third one: Not sure where you're getting "name" from. I don't much care for loose translations when a stricter one would suffice. Also, I don't think your translation really gets the relations properly, even if this is a very abstract image. The speaker is lonely, in a break in the wind, so call out to her, because she's always lonely, just a little. That's the idea, though I don't know how to put it into good English.
4: I have no idea what you based your translation on, but I think you misinterpreted the じゃ here. This is a contraction of では, and means "in the case of" among other things. "Show me a dream (the 'ideal' kind, not the sleep kind, most likely), it's a bit sad when the cocoa is cold". The cocoa is a metaphor.
>>74
Isn't an easy song to translate isn't it? and even with the context the relations aren't obvious.
But I'm thankful for your explanation, I already knew what みたい is but I didn't have any idea that みたく is an equivalent
I know that 名前, isn't on the text but I added it in the translation because the sematic concept of the whole phrase: 夢を見せて. however I'm going to follow your advice and try to look for a more precise equivalent term
I'm aware of the きみ correct use but くん was added automatically by romaji.org I only do the romaji review after I got an ok translation
Thanks again and sorry for the /jp/ incident
>>73
download Human Japanese, is probably the best beginner's course out there for iOS and android
I'm glad to be of help. I find vocaloid songs in particular tend to be really out there and abstract. Translating lyrics can be useful and interesting but we run into a lot of problems because forms and expressions are used in songs in ways we'd never hear them in regular Japanese. I avoid it as much as possible.
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Anonymous2012-04-08 15:36
japs are scum
weeaboos are scum
get a life
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Anonymous2012-04-09 16:09
I switched my language to Japanese on Anki today and am having trouble with what Kanji is at the bottom. It says:
今日は＃分で＃扌攵のカードを...
From how I am seeing it I see 扌攵 but I have searched and searched and can't find this being an actual Kanji. Also the font is small on Anki so I can't really tell if that's actually it. My second guess would be 牧 but I'm not sure.
how would one search pixiv or google when looking for ballgowns and nightgowns? looking around for the translation of former left me with a transcription of gown into katakana which for some reason yields thousands of pictures of Reimu's head and the latter left me with 寝巻 which as far as the found content goes makes me believe these are kanji for pyjamas.
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Anonymous2012-04-12 2:18
>>85
First of all, ballgowns and nightgowns are two different things.
Ballgown (a formal dress worn to a dance or ceremony): ロングドレス or 夜会服
Nightgown (a long comfortable dress worn to bed, in the evening) : 寝巻 or ナイトガウン
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Anonymous2012-04-12 17:46
>>86
Thanks anon. I am really grateful for your detailed explanation
>>94
Exposure. Memorize the most common and just go from there. There are lists of the most common names and their readings any and everywhere. Google them, you fuck.
After that, for uncommon, fucked up names, just guess and then apologize when you get it wrong like Japanese people do.
>>97
It's just the way the names work. There isn't any obvious system. A given combination of characters could be read any number of ways. I recall one character in something I was reading, as a joke, had his characters as 天馬 which was read as ぺがさす. Just know the common ones like 太郎, 渡辺, 佐藤, etc, and guess with the rest. That's what everyone else does. It's the reason why one of the most important parts of a self-introduction for a Japanese person is showing not just the kanji used but also the reading for your name.
Or you could look at Umineko where you have characters with names written in Kanji but read as western names like バトラ and ジェシカ
A lot of the time if you know a kanji well enough in terms of possible kun/on readings you can guess your way through them but a lot really are just memorization.
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Anonymous2012-04-15 21:46
The one thing that irks me though is when someone's character is really quite uncommon but people still recognize it. Specifically I have 橘 in mind here. I looked at that and thought "wow, odd character I've never seen, that must be uncommon" but every single one of my friends recognized it immediately. I guess that's the benefit to growing up in Japan surrounded by people with these sorts of names.
Also if the person is even remotely famous, many times they will not list readings, even for uncommon names. We had to translate an article about media in Japan, and one section rattled off names of the people who made Mixi and Pixiv, etc, and not a single one had readings of any sort.
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Anonymous2012-04-16 4:59
what is NANI MO OKITE KIBUN WA HENOHENO KAPPA
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Anonymous2012-04-16 7:09
japs are scum
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Anonymous2012-04-16 10:29
What's the closest Japanese expression to "thank god"? Something stronger than just よかった if possible. Like if you were about to fucking die and then was miraculously saved at the last minute.
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Anonymous2012-04-16 13:19
>>102
助かった? Don't expect 1:1 matchings with English, especially not Christian expressions.
If you're going to post a response, please post it in English if you are capable of doing so. it's pretty obvious the person asking the question isn't very proficient. At least proofread what you're writing:
>いえるだけど
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Anonymous2012-04-17 2:18
>>105
Total acceptable in informal speaking/writing
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Anonymous2012-04-17 7:23
>>106
Putting だ after an い adjective or verb is not acceptable in any situation. It's either a typo or a fundamental mistake. Google "言えるけど" vs "言えるだけど", note both the type and number of results, and come back and say that again.
that sure was a huge mistake and we should argue about it until the thread reaches 1000
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Anonymous2012-04-17 19:41
>>107
You've never spoken with a Japanese person, apparently. Stop being such a fuck nut nazi.
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Anonymous2012-04-17 21:32
>>109
He has somewhat of a point. You're right that you can do that in conversation but I can't say I've not heard an ん thrown in there after the infinitive in order to make a liason, without it, it does sound kinda off.
And clearly you've never noticed that any time you have だけど what comes before it has been nominalized, as >>110 said. ～いだけど and るだけど, etc, are never said, in casual conversation or otherwise. I challenge you to find a single example that isn't a typo on twitter or something, or a non-native speaker making a mistake. "Casual conversation" does not mean "drop whatever the fuck I want and it's ok".
I am a "fuck nut nazi" because you come on here not to help others, but to brag about your own ability. Responding to what is a very basic question about Japanese, in Japanese, just makes you come off like a braggart. Clearly you are capable of handling English. You should make an effort to respond in English where appropriate.
Oh, and before you respond with something like 「口では嘘は言える、だけどホントは金儲けが目的、人のことなど考えてはいない」 (first thing I noted in a google search) this function is not the same. This だけど is used as a conjunction. This is no different from how we can say 「車がほしい。でも、お金がない」 but cannot say 「車が欲しいでもお金がない」 (this would have to be 欲しくても and is still not the same as the first sentence).
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Anonymous2012-04-17 23:47
>>111
>are never said, in casual conversation or otherwise.
Sorry, you're just wrong. It is said. But you're right, it is technically wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that it is used. Those "typos" on twitter are not "typos" in the complete sense that the person who committed them was not aware that they made a mistake, as in a mistaken kanji or tense, but instead because using da or desu after a verb in plain form without any nominalization does occur in conversation.
I understand 100% it is not "grammatically" correct in anyway or understanding, but that doesn't not mean it cannot be said or used informally (i.e. incorrectly). If you fail to understand this, you are a most likely a nazi.
One example. Give me just one example. Because I have never seen it, heard it, I have no reason to see it as natural, and the fact that all of the 25,000 results I found for "言えるだけど" (compared to 1.3 million for "言えるけど") that I cared to sift through were of the form described in >>112 or featured the implicit nominalization of the sentence as a whole (as in へ？じゃないよ！)
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Anonymous2012-04-18 0:00
And don't bring です into this. It's different from だ in terms of where it is acceptably placed due to politeness concerns.
>>103
I don't expect 1:1 translations, that's why I said "closest expression." And I also don't mean it to say anything about god, I was just hoping for a phrase with more intensity than 助かった
What is a formal way of saying "Hello, X-san. I heard you speak good English, is that true?"
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Anonymous2012-04-18 15:25
I saw someone post a link for a pastebin page that has links to lots of Japanese resources and a few tips on where to get started. Does anyone have it? Thanks.
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Anonymous2012-04-18 15:32
>>120
The particle would be で, as space is a physical location wherein you are lost. に (kind of like を）loosely indicates that you lost its subject, or that you're lost in it, about it, etc. Like 「都会で道に迷う」or「愛に迷う」.
Literally, 宇宙（空間）で迷う makes sense but its hardly ever said. If you're trying to translate the movie or tv series, those already have katakana names. Other ways of saying the same thing and being more clear: 「宇宙で迷子になる」「宇宙で方向（目的地がどこか）が分からなくなる」 etc.
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Anonymous2012-04-18 15:36
>>119
well... you could use 命拾い I guess. So close to death but your life was picked up at the last second.
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Anonymous2012-04-18 15:38
>>123
Alternatively it might be okay to use 迷い込む as in getting literally lost in space, aye?
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Anonymous2012-04-18 15:45
>>125
迷い込む has the connotation of "stray" or "wander", as in a listless kind of "lost". If you want to say 'you were in space with some kind of purpose or destination and you became unable to achieve or reach that because of losing your physical, direction bearing' 迷う would be preferential.
>>128
Would be nice to have some context, especially for a phrase like this, but it probably means something like "(I) don't think this will end (anytime soon)".
Not sure why you think 助かった isn't strong enough. It has a lot to do with the way you say it. I can say "Thank god we're alive" after walking out of a plane crash or I could say "thank god that's over" after getting out of a boring class. Clearly they're two completely different levels of intensity and presumably I would say them differently (i.e., a speaker could tell how rough of a situation I had been in). Japanese is no different.
It might be a little rude with the 本当でしょうか, expressing some doubt. I would change it to なにか喋っていただけないでしょうか？ or something similar, but I am not a native speaker. Use at your own risk.
>>136
"oddly confusing/attention grabbing/makes one wonder". This translation is horrible, but in terms of what it's actually saying: ひっかかる in this way means to "get hung up on something" (as in a part of a problem one doesn't fully understand, or a part of a story that doesn't seem to jive with the rest) and 妙に is simply an adverb. It's similar to the phrase 釈然としない.
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Anonymous2012-04-19 17:46
Ah, thank you very much. Was beating my head against a wall for a whole day.
です instead of でしょう at the end sounds less intrusive, as you aren't implying you have a preconceived notion of the persons ability, are trying to test them, have an ulterior motive, etc. It's still slightly rude and omitting it would likely be the best maneuver in actually conversation with someone who is socially superior, which is probably what >>140 is trying to say
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Anonymous2012-04-19 20:10
>>142
>です instead of でしょう at the end sounds less intrusive, as you aren't implying you have a preconceived notion of the persons ability
This is just flat out incorrect. でしょうか is more polite than ですか, as the latter is more direct. Remember this is a question, not simply です/でしょう
Using ですか sounds highly interrogative and too questioning for the situation.
>流暢 isn't often used in conversation, formal or informal.
Bullshit. 上手 is certainly more common, but to say that 流暢 isn't said in conversation (especially polite conversation) just isn't true. You can find any number of examples:
I will agree with this. I included it because the person asked for a translation without little context other than what could be inferred, and so I did not want to change anything that might potentially be critical.
Also, not sure if 「お上手は伺いました」 is a typo or what, but that just doesn't work grammatically. You would need something like 英語がお上手というのは伺いました but then that sounds like it's something that has been mentioned before in the conversation (which it probably has been, given that the speaker has brought it up).
I meant to say "お上手だというのは" (forgot the だ, as it's a reproduced quote)
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Anonymous2012-04-19 20:42
>>143
It depends on the tone but でしょう can be much more probing, where です is simply a request for information.
About ryuuchou, you need to settle the fuck down and reread what I said. It isnt often used. Especially in that translation, "you are good at English", saying they're fluent is an entirely different thing. You found examples on the internet of its usage. Congratulations. お上手 is more natural. Get over it.
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Anonymous2012-04-19 20:55
>>144
No.「英語がお上手だというのは伺いました」is stinted and completely unnatural.
「素晴らしい仕事ぶりは伺っていますよ」
「話は伺っております」
These are natural, conversationalistic examples.
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Anonymous2012-04-19 22:07
>>144
I'm not >>147 but I think は is as the topic here, and used like を. It's not incorrect, just really formal, distant sounding.
I asked a japanese friend and they said だと伺う is probably the most common, but its really a complete case-by-case kind of thing
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Anonymous2012-04-19 22:15
>I'm not >>147 but I think は is as the topic here, and used like を. It's not incorrect, just really formal, distant sounding.
The problem isn't with は, per se, it's with the fact that 上手 is an ordinary noun, and it's not possible to "hear good". You "hear of good". (compare this with the also-mentioned 「話は伺っております」, where you can easily say "I heard what was being discussed, I know what is going on, etc"). Try looking up "お上手は" on google with quotes, and see how many results you get, and what kind of thing they are. It's really not done.
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Anonymous2012-04-19 22:30
>>149
But if you say 英語が上手 or 仕事が上手 then its fine. "I hear that you're good at English or working".
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Anonymous2012-04-19 22:35
>But if you say 英語が上手 or 仕事が上手 then its fine. "I hear that you're good at English or working".
"英語が上手は伺いました" is not proper. Not sure if that's what you're saying, but it doesn't work with verbs like 聞く/伺う/etc like that.
So there is definitely some overlap and some considerations to be made beyond "how is this pronounced". I imagine it also varies by age, region, etc.
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Anonymous2012-04-22 1:05
I'm doing a research paper on Japanese dialects and was hoping to get some input.
Any opinion is welcomed as long as it's "valid" in that you speak with people who speak these dialects or you hang out with people who have opinions on these dialects.
The question is, for these dialects: Tohoku, Kansai, Kyoto, Nagoya, and Kyuushu, what are the general characters you would assign a speaker of these dialects if you can't see them.
For example, when I hear Tohoku dialect, I think of farmers.
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Anonymous2012-04-22 11:20
>>159
Obviously Japanese differs greatly from region to region, dialect to dialect. I've studied a few dialects and if someone who could only speak Nagoyan ever met someone from Osaka, even though they're literally 2 hours away, they'd go crazy.
However, like this person said, there is a clear, discernible difference between the pronunciation of ず and づ where 標準語 is concerned(forgive me for typing that in Japanese, I don't remember how to say it in English). As that is what everyone is learning and more or less understands, that should suffice for the answer.
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Anonymous2012-04-22 11:27
>>160
Tohoku- slow, farmer, funny, but otherwise dull
Kansai- rough, slangy, everyone is a comedian, dirty, rude
Kyoto- Don't know much about Kyoto dialect, but I know its pretty uncommon compared to the others. People who speak tend to sound stuckup but I don't know if that's the overall image.
Nagoya- everyone thinks Nagoyans sound likes cats. And everyone who uses Nagoyaben is usually really young or really old. So there's the image that Nagoyaben is just for old cat people.
Kyuushuu - don't know much but I know there's more then 1 dialect and they're all pretty different.
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Anonymous2012-04-22 14:30
I came across these lines in a manga (same page, different panels).
「住環境は問題ないかと」
「概算ですが養育費として毎月この程度お支払いできるかと」
I'm confused about the かと bit. My best guess would be that か makes the statement somehow more polite by expressing doubt, and the と would be short for と思います, but I'm not sure if that's an accurate interpretation (if at all). The speaker is a lawyer informing his late client's relative the situations, so wouldn't he be a bit more… firm?
Thanks in advance.
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Anonymous2012-04-22 15:12
>I'm confused about the かと bit. My best guess would be that か makes the statement somehow more polite by expressing doubt, and the と would be short for と思います, but I'm not sure if that's an accurate interpretation (if at all).
This is correct. It's something like "I believe there should be no problem with the living environment.", "I believe (he?) will be able to pay about this much as . . ."
かと is frequently used this way as a polite way to insert one's thoughts. It's not about "firmness" directly, it's just that this is a more polite way of saying this.
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Anonymous2012-04-23 1:14
>>163
かと can be understood as being followed by 思う but its often translated much softer in English. Say less in Japanese is often the most polite and not finishing your sentence with a verb means you dont state your thoughts directtly.
「住環境は問題ないかと」
「(I assume) There are no concerns/problems with the environment...」
「概算ですが、養育費として毎月この程度お支払いできるかと」
「Although its just an estimate, (I wonder/assume/expect/) you'll be able to pay this amount for child-support each month...」
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Anonymous2012-04-23 17:47
Would "俺もCDが欲しい" be correct if what I'm trying to say is "I also want a CD (of this)"?
>>135,121 here
I apologize for being stupid, but I kind of got lost in the argument you guys had on which would be the correct form of what I originally asked.
The person in question is someone who I haven't had any contact with before and I'm asking because I'm curious.
Which leads me to me asking again; what would be the most formal way of asking if x-san speaks good English?
Again, I apologize for my stupidity.
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Anonymous2012-04-23 20:48
>>166
>Would "俺もCDが欲しい" be correct if what I'm trying to say is "I also want a CD (of this)"?
Well, the context here is that multiple people on a video commented "I want a CD," referring to the song in the video. I was basically meaning "I, too, want a CD" of the song in the video.
"Cha-la-Head-Cha-la" is "チャラ・ヘッチャラ".
"チャラ" and "ヘッチャラ" have some means. But in this case, it is meaningless words.
"Nani Ga Okite Mo Kibun Ha Henoheno Kappa" is "何が起きても気分はへのへのカッパ".
"へのへのカッパ" is same as "屁の河童", and this means "Easy" or "No problem".
So it is "何が起きても大丈夫だ" --> "if anything happened, i can solve it. it's no problem."
I'm not sure if it's a legit "Japanese" question, but I'll take a shot anyway.
Is there any Japanese counterpart (in terms of how much 2ch users hate them) of 4chan memes? Like for example the Guy Fawkes mask, "EFG," "epic win," etc. and if so, what would be their Japanese counterparts?
I may be wrong, but I heard some 2ch'ers are against the use of kaomoji, true or not?
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Anonymous2012-04-24 21:48
>>174
There are probably just as many memes, though they're not as gay and unoriginal as image macros. They change just as frequently.
They're against overuse and stupid shit like (´ ▽｀).。ｏ♡ ( *｀ω´)ﾉﾊﾛーヾ(・ω・`｡)(｡´・ω・)ﾉ .
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Anonymous2012-04-27 18:20
which sounds more natural:
日本の料理のようなすばらしいビュッフェだね。
or
日本の料理はすばらしいビュッフェのようなだね。
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Anonymous2012-04-27 18:24
>>176
disregarding the fact that it's something that wouldn't be said in speech. I had to write about Japanese food for a project.
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Anonymous2012-04-28 0:27
>>176
They have two meanings and neither is written grammatically correct.
すばらしくて、日本の料理のようなビュッフェだね。 - (It is) a marvelous, Japanese cuisine-style buffet.
日本の料理はすばらしいビュッフェのようだね。 - Japanese cuisine is like a marvelous buffet.
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Anonymous2012-04-28 8:18
>>176
日本の料理のようなすばらしいビュッフェだね has not subject, and so it doesn't have the same meaning as 日本の料理はすばらしいビュッフェのようだね
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Anonymous2012-04-28 21:40
Can someone fluent please fill out this survey for my linguistics class? If you aren't from Japan you can just fake that part.
>>182
You are amazing. Words cannot express how grateful I am. I hope you have a fantastic day.
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Anonymous2012-05-01 12:58
I'm curious about buying a figure, but the machine translation for a page doesn't make it clear if the item is in stock or not, or if it's used or not. http://item.rakuten.co.jp/hakata-smile/10004509/
(You may have to scroll down a bit, there's a few ads at the top.)
Basically, I have two questions:
- Is the item in stock, and will it ship ASAP when I order it?
- Is it used, or new?
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Anonymous2012-05-01 19:31
>>184
It will ship within 3 days and its new (do you really think a used 1/4 FREEing figure is 12,000 yen?)
Thanks. The reason I thought it may be used is because FREEing figures have been sold out for a long time now, and I saw them at even higher prices in other places, even though they were used.
Still, thank you very much for this information.
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Anonymous2012-05-03 11:39
Should I make an active effort to not think any English at all when reading Japanese, or will it come naturally? For example, I see 誕生日, and I end up looking at the first character, then the second, etc, trying to link their meanings together, from which I get birthday, and then I know the reading is たんじょうび from prior study. Is this bad, or natural? If I shouldn't be doing it this way, how else do I do it?
Did you study kanji before the language itself? Without knowing your methods, it's not easy to say if you're doing it right or wrong. With that said, kanji/word association comes naturally with exposure.
I've been watching anime/J dramas for something like 6 years prior to trying to actually learn, so the sound of the language is fine to me. I did Pimsleur and Heisig side-by-side, and a lot of the stuff I'm learning from things like Genki or just random sentences are more like "Oh yeah I recognise that"
>>190
If you did Heisig it's par for the course. Study words in context, and you should get up to speed soon.
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Anonymous2012-05-03 23:10
Can anyone help me by reviewing my translation of these sentences:
柔らかな夢に抱かれて
Embraced in a soft dream
全てから耳を塞いだ
I covered my ears from everything
隔たれた空気の中に
In the middle of those distant airs
明日観る世界ェ在る
stands the world of tomorrow
まだ引力は強すぎて
The gravity is still too strong
まだ僕達は翔べなくて
is still impossible for us to fly away.
沈みゆく陽を見つめていた
You were looking at the sunset
夜が来て全てを隠すように
Then the night came with the purpose to hide everything
灯りには憧れながら
while we were still longing for the light
陰を出ることを拒む
that thing refused to go out of the shadow
まだ引力が強すぎて
The gravity is still just too strong
まだ僕達は翔べないと思っていた
We thought that we still couldn't fly away
背中に感じる濡れた翅
In the back I felt the wet wings
朝が来ないように祈っていた
I was hoping that the morning never came
夜が僕を隠すように
So the night could hide me
黙すべきことを語っては
when you talk to me please do it silently
往く道は掌からこぼれた
The road extends from the palm of my hand
月ならば真綿の様に
to the moon like a silk thread
そっと眼を覆ってくれる
I quietly cover your eyes
やがて変わりゆく濡れた翅
Beforelong the wings will get wet again
義務を果たす様に拡がる
They will spread to fulfill their purpose
僕の選択が無意味なら
If my decision is meaningless
明日が来ないように願っていた
let's hope that tomorrow never comes
夜が僕を隠し
The night will hide me
この繭で眠れるように
so I can sleep in this cocoon
>>196
よかった！
I usually translate this phrase as "I'm glad" or in this case "is good to know that"
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Anonymous2012-05-04 16:06
I caught the pattern どうこう a few days back. Can't figure out what this means, is it a abbreviation of どうな and こうな thrown in together? How does this go with a noun?
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Anonymous2012-05-04 16:27
僕は義務を果たさなきゃいけない
I know this translates to "I have to fulfill the responsibility". What bugs me is the part "義務を果たさ", the verb doesn't mean anything like "to fulfill" so either this is a typo or I'm reading slang here.
>>196>>197
I don't think they were asking for how to translate that.
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Anonymous2012-05-05 8:41
Should I be taking notes of any form when I'm actively studying grammar? Or do I just read loads of examples and wait until it sticks?
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Anonymous2012-05-05 10:25
>>203
Take notes, don't read examples. Read some materials to see how it's actually used irl. Saying that, though, taking notes is mostly useful for slangs because good lord, the shit that Jap teenagers make up isn't likely going to be updated in dictionaries. MeCab or Jparser are more helpful for intermediate-and-above grammar references, but they are bloody useless to you without basic grammar proficiency.
Don't know any app like that for my Android, though. Would be sodding handy to carry around one.
Would you say Genki I & II + the Intermediate Approach... book count as basic proficiency?
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Anonymous2012-05-05 13:11
>>205
Yes, although that's not the best way to go around the basics. Genki books don't teach you how to analyze sentences in tokens, spend too much focus on formal expressions and don't group related patterns together.
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Anonymous2012-05-06 11:36
>>204
I don't see what the problem with examples is. Reading examples for specific grammar patterns is of questionable usefulness, especially when those examples are created primarily for teaching ("textbook" sentences). However, real example sentences in a corpus like ALC (alc.co.jp) or the example sentences in EDICT can be very useful for understanding meaning. I probably refer to ALC more than any other resource simply because it provides better context for a given word, showing collocation and associations.
In response to >>203 and in addition to >>204, I think that volume is really important. I took two years of Japanese (which looking back, probably taught me about as much as is on Tae Kim's site) in college, then just started reading light novels. The first one took me weeks, with the first pages being the worst, and my understanding was tentative at best. But after a while and after stressing about various grammar patterns, you begin to make a peace with the way things are formed and the way things flow, and it speeds up. I didn't take notes, I just asked questions to Japanese friends/google/lang-8 and kept reading as much as possible.
What kind of questions do you mean? Not sure how I'd go about learning specifics about grammar without purposely going through a textbook/website until I find examples of it.
Also, how long should I really be looking at for grammar to stick? I'm 'getting' it first time round, but I wouldn't say my understanding is anything better than tentative. Should I move on once I understand it at that level, or persist in some manner until it's second nature? I'm guessing it's more important that I get exposure to the language rather than constantly do grammar, but it's my first language, so...
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Anonymous2012-05-07 21:37
>>208
Just about what something meant or why things worked the way they did. This is also a good place to ask such questions, as is the forum for Tae Kim's.
>I'm 'getting' it first time round, but I wouldn't say my understanding is anything better than tentative.
That depends on what your goal is. My only real goal is/was to understand Japanese. I only thought about it as much as it helped me to understand. Some people are more interested in the linguistic dissection of Japanese, and want to fully explain why things work the way they do, which is also valid. It helps if you think about these things day to day, and keep trying to find examples of them until you feel comfortable. it's a matter of volume.
>it's my first language
Do you mean that you're actually a Japanese heritage learner, or are you saying that this is the first language you've learned? I'm going to assume the latter.
Grammar is valuable, but only so far as it helps you to better understand the author's intent. Asking out of the blue what the difference between "must" and "have to" is in English and getting an explanation will not help you as much as seeing each 100 times in actual context will. At least, not on a subconscious level. Now, if you're like me, you don't actually know what the hell the difference is, and you'd need to look it up. Still, you manage to use it absolutely perfectly every day of your life, with no problems at all. That is my goal in Japanese.
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Anonymous2012-05-07 21:54
>>208
Also, as far as basic grammar goes, I recommend guidetojapanese.org, it's a good place to start on most basic patterns. If you know everything in there, you can at least get started on reading more complicated things, and begin to find out what you don't know.
This one's a bitch to figure out:
成績も後ろから数えた方が早い、何に関してもやる気が感じられない
First half of the sentence, I guess he must be scolding somebody that the dude's score is quicker to count from the bottom, though I could use some confirmation. The second half, I can't decipher what he's saying. Any help?
Actually it sounds like he's talking about himself because of the 感じられない (i.e., can't get excited about anything even if he wanted to).
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Anonymous2012-05-09 20:40
I'm in the midst of writing my last Japanese essay for college. Is there a Japanese equivalent to "In this essay I will talk about" much like Japanese people say "それでは，説明させていただきます" when they're about to give a presentation?
This suffices though its not necessarily great writing (just like in English). You don't start quality papers with "derp I'm gonna talk about economics".
Keigo is never used in essays, usually only in presentations and speeches. It sounds formal and privileged to the point of being rude to say 書かせて頂く
Is it a good idea to go from kana to kanji, using the same sentences, but just reversed direction? Obviously there's no way it could hurt, but I will basically never write anything in Japanese without a computer, and even then, very rarely; I am interested purely in media, so all my interraction with the language will be essentially passive. Even if I decide not to focus on being able to produce the kanji from kana, would it take long to pick this up? As in, am I likely, when fluent, to take as long as it's taking me to recognise them, or will it be like one month for me to get up to speed (With focused effort, of course).
I ask primarily because, when I do my reviews in Anki, I am having trouble going from English keywords to kanji (Suspicious in itself, as I should move on from this as soon as possible), but when I show the answer, immediately I get the "Oh! That's obvious!" feeling; many of the kanji I continually get incorrect from keyword to kanji, but upon the answer I am 100% sure I would've recognised it when seen.
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Anonymous2012-05-10 12:41
Has anyone seen live versions of downloads of any of these?
- Tobira (holy shit this one is elusive for how popular it is)
- Chuukyou wo Manabou 82 (not 56, which is the lower level)
- J301/501 (501 used to be available somewhere, but it was an MU/FSn link, both of which are now dead)
- Sa-Motome N3 reading or listening
- any of the Shin Kanzen Master series
I've managed to amass a lot of good series, including Genki, Nakama, Chuukyou he Ikou/wo Manabou 56, JBridge, Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese, but I'm missing those few which would allow me to move forward.
Also, what other books are good for the intermediate to upper-intermediate level? JLPT prep books are great, but they're pretty dense and bland with no sense of integration, and they require outside research to get the point of them, making them ineffectual for manual study so much as priming.
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Anonymous2012-05-12 2:16
I am a bit stumped on the meaning of this phrase.
気をつけてねあなたの行動筒抜けよ
Does it mean: "Be careful, I overheard about your behavior"?
Does not literally mean "overhear", though that can be its meaning given context. It literally means "when the bottom of a tube gives out and the contents leak out".
In this sentence, though there isn't a particle, it would like be 行動（が）筒抜け. Meaning "your actions are going to leak out". Altogether: "You better be careful or people will find out what you did", or something along those lines.
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Anonymous2012-05-12 8:53
When learning new kanji, I know you should learn readings in context from sentences, but would it be worth looking at the readings for 5/10 minutes, then learning sentences after? I feel it'd be easier to remember that way, but don't want to waste my time if it's not going to confer any benefits to my studying.
Thanks.
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Anonymous2012-05-12 11:30
I work in a retail store, and we occasionally get Japanese customers coming in. Does anyone know of a reference site that might have lists of Japanese phrases with proper keigo for a shop-worker speaking to a customer?
For example, answering questions about prices or letting the customer know that the shop is closing soon.
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Anonymous2012-05-12 12:47
>>228
Stick with the basic degozaimasu, itashimasu, nasaimasu, itadakimasu, shiteorimasu, zonjiru, moushiageru, etc. and it'll be fine. Obviously if you're working for a major company, keigo will be important but if you're on the sales floor, no one expects anything spectacular nowadays; desu-masu can even pass, especially from foreigners.
Here's a list of sonkeigo and keigo expressions. Not all of these are used, and, depending on the situation, the customer might not have any idea what you're saying or you might just come off so formal that you're rude.
>>227
>I feel it'd be easier to remember that way
then why not just try and judge for yourself whether it's worth doing or not? fucking youtube generation is unable to do any experimentation
>>228
>we occasionally get Japanese customers coming in
then why can't you just stick with desu/masu? judging from the context you're obviously not working in japan, neither are you japanese, so people won't expect you to use keigo anyway.
Because
>but don't want to waste my time if it's not going to confer any benefits to my studying.
Look don't get me wrong, I can understand why you'd be pissed off for me asking, but I'm a third-year physicist; I am perfectly capable of doing experimentation. Yet, that's going to add up to a Hell of a lot of time which may turn out to be time wasted. If you actually know whether or not it'll be useful it would save me either time or worry.
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Anonymous2012-05-13 12:08
>>232
Finances, mainly. One book is expensive enough, multiple is a stack of shit.
And wat? Everyone has given me huge suggestions for Tobira. Why do you hate it, and what's better in its place?
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Anonymous2012-05-13 13:16
What does "してねーよ" mean?
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Anonymous2012-05-13 13:54
>>235
して is する in te-form. ねー and よ is sentence ending particles, use to emote; disposable.
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Anonymous2012-05-13 14:14
そんなの部員じゃなくても出来るし、祭でやることじゃないでしょ
Having a hard time figuring this one out. He says that we're capable even without any staff like that but it doesn't seem fit logically to the "not something to do at the festival" part. Am I misinterpreting this phrase?
No, it's している negated → していない from which い is frequently dropped, becoming してない, then ない often becomes ねえ in casual speech, making してねえ. We add よ on top of this making something meaning "(I) don't do that", "(I'm) not doing that", etc.
>>237
Let me just first say that you have given virtually no context at all. This makes it very difficult to give any real interpretation to the sentence, and frankly it's very irritating to try and work with. Japanese is a very contextual language, meaning we need to know what is happening to interpret many statements, and even in English or other languages we check our assumptions against what we know about the situation. Still, we can note a few things.
The first part says "someone can do this even if they aren't a staff member", not "we can do it without staff members" (that would be 部員がいなくても, not 部員じゃなくても). The second part is pretty much what you said. Make what you will of it.
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Anonymous2012-05-13 21:00
I found this on the pixiv page on one of my favorite artists, and I wondered what it means:
As a more personal question, do you people feel a bit annoyed to go on this textboard to translate stuff for people who don't know the language themselves? I really don't want to bother you guys just cause I don't understand some word.
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Anonymous2012-05-13 22:43
クマのプー太郎
Poohtarou the Bear
↓
うなぎ
Eel
↓
義理の母
Step-mother
↓
派手な看護婦
↓
A gaudy nurse
ふてくされた小学生
↓
A pouty elementary school kid
胃カメラを飲む紳士
↓
A gentlemen who took a gastroscopy test
しり
↓
Ass
リトマス試験紙
↓
Litmus paper
しり
↓
Ass
リンパ管を見せて喜ぶ変質者
↓
A pervert who gets excited when he shows his lymph ducts/you show your lymph ducts
三味線でドアをこじ開けようとする泥棒
A thief who tries to wrench open a door with a shamisen
↓
ウクレレで窓をこじ開けようとする泥棒
↓
A thief who tries to wrench open a window with a ukelele
馬に話しかけるハゲた男
↓
A bald guy who accosts horses
コウモリにたかられるレスリング選手
↓
A wrestler swamped by bats
手裏剣で床にはりついたガムを剥がす算数の先生
↓
An arithmetic teacher who peels off gum stuck to the floor by a shuriken
一風、変わった娘
↓
An eccentric, peculiar young woman
名刺を交換するモンゴウイカ
↓
Cuttlefish that exchange business cards
カラオケザル
Karaoke Monkey
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Anonymous2012-05-13 22:50
I have encountered a case where context-wise, it would make a lot of sense if the speakers are giving order, but the sentence ending is 言わないの！ which is "negative dictionary form + の + exclamation mark". I thought it was a typo for negative imperative form but then the verb would have to be 言うの！, too much window for a typo. Is this a correct grammar?
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Anonymous2012-05-13 22:53
>>241
correction: negative imperative form should be 言うな！ My typo.
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Anonymous2012-05-13 23:13
>>241
Grammatically, its fine but its not often said in that context. 'の' is more often indicative of a question. However, it can be used, usually by females, to demarcate a strong, confident, or emotional conclusion or emphasis. Think of it as "you're not going to say (something)" or "I'm not going to say something" instead of "dont say (something)" which would be 言わないで 言うな etc.
It's the catchphrase of Hime-chan, a semi-famous performer.
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Anonymous2012-05-14 5:10
>>238
Makes sense, I'm reinterpreting it as "It's not something to do at the festival, one of the reasons being you don't have to be a staff member to do things like that."
You can do that even if you aren't a staff member; its not something you do at a festival/you don't have anything to do at a festival.
The use of し connects the two, but the second clause is not a reason for the first.
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Anonymous2012-05-14 13:00
Does anyone know of a program/method to practice stroke order? Obviously I could just go through kanji-by-kanji, but I'm hoping there's something something more like an Anki deck out there, something with structure to it?
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Anonymous2012-05-14 14:36
Kanji has me confused. Memorizing how to write them isn't hard at all for me, but the readings is what's getting me.
Can someone give me an example of the process of learning a specific kanji? A lot of kanji that I'm learning have a lot of different readings and no indication as to what reading I should use, as I encounter it in writing.
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Anonymous2012-05-14 15:00
>>248
Every character can have Japanese (on/おん) and Chinese (kun/くん) readings. There can also be arbitrary readings (ateji/当て字) such as 煙草 (たばこ) but these are relatively rare.
Maybe you already knew that. As far as learning them goes, though, I did Heisig after two years of trying to memorize directly and found it helped. Whether or not you like that method, I feel it's very important to have some way of identifying individual radicals so that each one is a sum of parts - this makes it much easier. Heisig for me was mostly a way of realizing this.
After that, I mainly learned through seeing the characters in words (I read light novels and play video games, mainly). You see certain readings more than others, and you begin to get a sense for what sounds like what. It's a feeling similar to spelling in English - you can see a word you don't know how to pronounce, but you can guess based on other times you've seen similar patterns. For example, in 生, there is a ridiculous number of readings if you were to just check a kanji dictionary. But you'll quickly learn that it's virtually always せい except in compounds where it is also frequently しょう or even じょう, and then when it has furigana it's almost always う as in うまれる. The other readings, when you see them, you can learn at that point. I don't think there's really much value in just slamming readings alone, because you'll have nothing to attach them to (i.e., words).
Or 生きる (いきる) etc. Anyway my point wasn't to be exhaustive about the individual character, just to show that there's no need to learn Kanji on their own with all their readings. Things stick much better if you learn words containing the character using an SRS program of some sort (anki).
You did LNs after Heisig? Could you tell me what kind of experience I'd be getting myself into?
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Anonymous2012-05-15 3:38
>>251
Not sure what you want to know, but my biggest barrier for fluid reading was definitely grammar above anything else. Being able to recognize an idiom or a subordinate clause is much harder than recognizing a character. Heisig's main advantage is in writing.
I spent literally hours on just a couple of pages at first, and it took me like a week to get through the first 30 pages of Index. I then put it away for a while, and started playing more video games (specifically, Golden Sun DS, Pokemon Black, and FFIX) in Japanese, which were easier because there's less narration and more dialogue. Coming back, I started reading Haganai, which was really not that bad at all compared to my initial experience. I really think the most important thing to do is to find something you can really dedicate a lot of time to without becoming bored, and then dedicate a lot of time to it. Banging your head on a wall isn't useful.
Would you recommended I jump straight into some media that I like, then? I've been done with Heisig for a few weeks now, and I'm thinking of trying something like Flyable Heart, which I hear is relatively simple. Or should I be sentence mining before I try to do a VN?
Also, do you find playing something like Pokemon reduces your study time? I'm thinking it'll either make you end up wasting too much time on battles and what not, or it'll let you study more because of a timeboxing effect.
I never did sentence stuff, not specifically anyway. It seems like it would be a valid way of doing things, though. I kind of ended up doing it in a more roundabout way: whenever I saw a pattern I didn't know or a word that I wasn't clear on its usage, I would look it up on ALC (alc.co.jp) and they have a very nice sentence bank that I would pull from and try to understand the word. Your mileage may vary. In any case, you don't have much to lose by trying to read something you want and just working at it. Sooner or later, you'll have to. I don't know what your total experience is, but it's good to get a basic primer through something like Genki or Tae Kim.
I played pokemon mostly because I wanted to play pokemon. If I wasn't studying Japanese, I probably would have just played the translation patch. Still, the dialogue was helpful to some degree. I did video games over a visual novel or some other media because I enjoyed them, not out of absolute efficiency.
Alright, thanks anon. I'll probably give Flyable Heart a go and just see if I can manage it. I don't suppose you got any noticeable increase in reading speed when you first did Index?
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Anonymous2012-05-15 5:11
>255
A little, I guess. It's hard to really say speed because I would have a page or two that were ok, taking no more than 10 minutes, maybe (looking up all words), then I would have a page with one or two sections that I would obsess over for long periods of time. It was incredibly inconsistent.
The best advice I can give to anyone from my own experience is that if you understand the meaning of something (a word or phrase, construction, anything), if you understand how it differs from similar forms even somewhat, don't worry about every little nuance of the word. Repeated instances of it will make it more clear when it's natural to use and when it's odd.
>>234
Once you've worked through IJ (in which half the book is basically a recap of Genki 2), you're pretty much past the point where the general purpose textbooks are useful.
At that point I started using N2 studying material, but it was mostly horribly bad if your goal is to learn Japanese and not just pass a test. After a while of doing this I just said fuck it and started watching more tv instead, reading some native material like 2ch news sites and comics as well. When encountering grammar patterns I've yet to learn, I use the dictionary of advanced Japanese grammar book to figure out how they work if needed.
Oh, but now after rereading the post you didn't say you've used the books, just that you downloaded them. It'll be easier to give specific advice if you type out what you've done so far.
>>233
i didn't really get pissed, it's just a rule of mine to only shitpost itt
The reason why no one has replied is probably because there is no correct answer. Everyone learns differently, so I can't tell you if it'd be beneficial for your studies.
What I can say is that when I stopped looking up readings beforehand it did wonders for my word recognition.
When I did look up readings of words in advance they'd just stick for a few minutes, long enough to read through, but when going in cold, attempting to parse a text and having to look up the same words several times, it started getting annoying enough that I would end up remembering them long-term.
Call it frustration memory, if you want.
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Anonymous2012-05-16 9:52
I heard about a book exchange service a while back where you can trade english books for japanese ones. Anyone know what site I'm talking about?
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Anonymous2012-05-16 22:40
Is kanjidamage.com a good way to learn kanji?
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Anonymous2012-05-17 6:31
>>260
Yeah, regardless of how you feel about Schultz his structure (a non-bullshit Heisig) is good.
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Anonymous2012-05-17 9:33
I'm looking for a VN that has simple language, and an English translation to check I'm on the right lines. Any recommendations?
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Anonymous2012-05-17 13:39
>>260
Ignore kanjidamage and just download ANKI. Look up a youtube video on how to use anki, and then go into anki>file>download>shared deck and type in "lazy kanji +mod". Have fun. Oh, and AJATT.com if you haven't already.
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Anonymous2012-05-17 13:41
>>263
As an addendum, this is from someone who used kanjidamage all the way up until the 1600th kanji.
>>261
Its certainly a bit...crass. But looking at it I did feel it to be a very well put together system. >>264
Why should it be ignored?
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Anonymous2012-05-17 16:21
>>265
It should be ignored not for the fact it's badly put together, but for the fact that using an SRS (with the specific deck I mentioned as optional, but recommended) is a good country mile ahead in terms of efficiency.
It sort of surprises me that everyone hasn't just switched over to immersion+srs for language acquisition, but these things take time I guess. Like I said, I *did not* start out using the methods I use now, I simply found them to be better to a point where there was no room for uncertainty about what I was seeing.
Just give it a try and see how things go.
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Anonymous2012-05-17 19:07
>>266
it doesnt seem to have the pronunciation or anything else...am I missing something, or is it only meant to teach reading?
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Anonymous2012-05-19 10:08
bump
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Anonymous2012-05-19 21:04
Will practicing stroke order of kanji, in addition to saying the kun/onyomi out loud help me remember them any better than simply looking over cards or the kanji and saying the kun/onyomi?
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Anonymous2012-05-20 6:13
>>269
What you're doing is good for basically nothing. What you're suggesting is good for slightly better than basically nothing. There's two functional ways to learn kanji:
- Practice reading the kanji in a relevant vocabulary word, and then read a sentence with that vocabulary word written in kanji
- Practice writing a kanji in a relevant vocabulary word, and then write a sentence with that vocabulary word written in kanji
This is what 99% of Japanese classes are testing on their kanji quizzes when they're not trying to save time/give students a break, and it's for a good fucking reason. The JLPT would be doing the same, except it's fucking hard to grade thousands of written kanji or hiragana readings compared with just multiple-choice recognition questions which have 80%+ accuracy in determining one's reading proficiency of the same kanji compounds.
Spoilers: there are fifty million kanji read shi or kou. Learning that way is retarded and unintuitive because not even Chinese uses single character nouns or verbs anymore.
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Anonymous2012-05-20 6:28
>>270
To compound, you should have decks of anki cards that look like this. On one side of one card you should have 恵方 and on the other えほう, "favorable direction." When you see the kanji, you should be able to read and define it. On another card you should have "favorable direction" on one side, and 恵方, えほう on the other. In this way you are developing the two key functions of interlingual literacy. One one hand you can read a word and be able to read it out loud while also understanding its meaning, and on the other hand you will be able to take a word you want to say that you can conceptualize and write it in Japanese and know what it says. This manner of learning is far more integrated than learning the puzzle pieces of a language, because as everyone ever has discovered, we don't learn things as fragments but as complex symbols which we psychologically link to other symbols in their value (read: Gestalt theory, data entry model of the human psyche). It's both impossible and useless to learn kanji as just fragments, because they will not have been assigned a value this way, and there's no point in learning the ingredients that would allow you to make pasta noodles before you learn how to boil prepackaged pasta and make a sauce. If you do learn how to make pasta from scratch, congrats, your hard work will make you a linguist, and now you can put your skills to work by writing dissertations and teaching bored students how to design the ideal cookbook instead of going out and working in a five-star restaurant. I mean, unless that's your sort of thing, but most people learn Japanese so that they can eat that night, if you comprehend my extended metaphor.
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Anonymous2012-05-20 11:59
>>271
so...I should learn jukugo and more complex kanji first? Then delve into their construction and workings?
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Anonymous2012-05-20 12:10
>>272
No, you should do both simultaneously. Pick a kanji either by its functionality (i.e. if it's commonly used like 日 or 人) or by the Kanji Damage methodology of grouped radicals. Spend a moment reading the on'yomi and kun'yomi, but only a moment because it's not fucking important. Then learn the jukugo. Or, hell, don't even learning the systematics of kanji, just learn the jukugo if you're looking for the functional use of kanji. You should always be learning vocabulary words one at a time anyway, and you have nothing to lose by learning a vocabulary word and its reading simultaneously. While learning modern Chinese, no one does fucking hanzi study; they learn vocabulary and the one way to write a compound, even if one character has multiple readings. Hanzi are only studied individually for writing practice. This is because there's only one way to write Chinese words, and if you don't learn it you can't write something that Chinese-speakers will be able to read. Don't fool yourself into thinking Japanese is supposed to be different. There's a few exceptions where the kanji for a word isn't important, and you won't even learn them if you separate vocabulary and kanji study. The whole idea of kanji study is a wholly retarded concept and fuck JLPT and the modern world of education for trying to section kanji away from vocabulary when the two have been intrinsically linked since the silk road.
On the other hand if you want to be a juku-whore and study kanji so that you can pass the JLPT, sure, you can do that, but just go by number and JLPT test spec. You won't be developing a functional model of Japanese literacy but it doesn't matter because that's not what the JLPT tests.
>>273
Ill go with the first thing you said. Im only using the somewhat limited uses of the japanese language as justification for my boner over it anyhow.
Actually Kanji as a separate section has been dissolved and merged with vocabulary, and they've done away with the majority of the "what has the same reading as XX compound" questions.
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Anonymous2012-05-20 16:48
A question concerning the particle も
Assuming I did something too, for example fo to Tokyo, would I say:
"私は 東京にも 行く。“ as my grammar tells me to or rather:
"私も 東京に 行く。“?
Did my grammar just do this to illustrate the use of にも or is the latter option less common or wrong in any way?
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Anonymous2012-05-20 18:45
These have entirely different meanings.
私は 東京にも 行く
"I also go to Tokyo" (I went to places other than Tokyo too)
私も 東京に 行く
"I also go to Tokyo" (Other people are going to Tokyo besides me)
The English doesn't have to make the distinction but Japanese does.
>>275
JLPT is still a shitty test that's far off from measuring actual Japanese comprehension.
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Anonymous2012-05-20 18:49
>>278
Actually, I'd say comprehension is just about the only thing it measures. It is fairly awful at gauging one's proficiency at conversation or production, but anyone who can score 150+ (maximum 180) is certainly capable of solid reading comprehension.
>私は 東京にも 行く
The first sentence means "I'll also go to Tokyo", implying there's another place (main goal), let's say Osaka, that you'll go to. Because of the は particle it's also implying that only you are going to Tokyo in addition to Osaka, while someone else (who's relevant to the context of your conversation) is only going to Osaka and not to Tokyo.
Starting out every sentence with 私はなんとかかんとか is a bad idea because of this.
>私も 東京に 行く
This means something completely different, although the phrasing is the same in English: (Someone is going to Tokyo) I'll also go to Tokyo.
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Anonymous2012-05-21 12:57
I'd like to ask what is probably going to seem like a very stupid question. Nearly everyone (that I've seen, anyway) advocates learning Japanese by learning to write Kana and Kanji from the get-go. I understand the necessity of learning to write and read in Japanese, but why is it a bad idea to start learning basic speaking vocabulary and grammar first, the way you learn a language normally? I'm not trying to take the easy wait out or anything, I just don't understand why it's not better to learn to speak the language some first, and then learn to write it, like you would if you were a child.
The Japanese syllabary is phonetic, meaning that (barring several specific exceptions) there's a one-to-one correlation between sounds and characters. These sounds form the building blocks of the language. Your Japanese is more likely to be accurate and understandable when you have a grasp of these building blocks.
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Anonymous2012-05-21 21:34
>>282
My friend actually explained this much better than I had understood it prior: yes, children learn by immersing themselves in a language environment. It takes them upwards of two years until they can say basic things, and they do not have any verbal symbols prior.
Writing is a functional system of creating symbols where they might not have existed before (gestalt theory shows that we will read words holistically instead of breaking down the letters or ideographs). Additionally, if you want to go into an immersive environment, then go right in. But, like a child, expect to understand nothing for two years and then slowly begin to grasp the language. If you want to learn like a student, then you should learn the writing system so you can study Japanese textually. Your speaking skills will be weaker than your textual skills at first, but if you go to Japan with two or three years of study under your belt, you will be surprised at how quickly you go from a retard to someone able to hold a functional conversation in a real topic. That's been my experience, as someone who had a writing-heavy college experience and then went abroad after 2.5 years of study. In 4 months I went from being almost unable to talk at all (I could talk somewhat, which is pretty good for text-heavy learning), to being able to hold basic conversations at full speed, and more intermediate conversations (things that have constructions such as "it's not necessarily given that ~ even if you say ~, but rather...") at a lower speed and accuracy but functional enough to get my point across.
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Anonymous2012-05-22 10:22
Quote from Genki: "With an adjective for which visual evidence is crucial, such as きれいな, we do not use そう and say that something is きれいそうです, if it looks pretty; we already have enough evidence to conclude that it is pretty."
I remember a few days ago, watching Utena, one of the characters said something on the lines of "A heart searching for eternity could be seen as beautiful"
So when the word is used in this sense, does what the Genki book said still apply? Not sure if it's the use of the word きれいな in any respect that prevents you using it, or if it's purely due to the fact that something is right in front of you and it's obvious? Sorry if I'm being kind of vauge; I'm still a beginner, so I'm not sure precisely how to word the question.
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Anonymous2012-05-22 12:14
>>285
そう isn't usually used with visual adjectives but it can be used with きれい given the bases of a) what is being seen is visual (not ideal, imagined, mental, etc.) and something that garners a feeling, reaction or opinion.
One example is: 空気もきれいそうだ
きれいに見える is a safer option. Literally, something that looks or appears pretty. It's not the same as "seems" but it works.
What is the most common thing to search for if I'm looking for an album cover in Japanese?
I tried アルバム but all I got was picture albums.
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Anonymous2012-05-22 22:19
>>285
I believe you'd say きれいに見える (literally "can be seen beautifully")
>>287
It's actually a very functional sentence pattern even in every day language. It's common for me to say things like 外人からといって、もてるとはかぎらない。むしろ、ナンポ下手。
"Just because I'm a gaijin doesn't mean necessarily that women are all over me. Rather, my pickup sucks."
If I'm misunderstanding what you're saying then I'm sorry, but the issue with adding そう to きれい is that そう is only used for evidence. 優しそう can only be used when you are inferring, for example. きれいそう doesn't make sense because you're not inferring or guessing, you're actually seeing it. You CAN use it if someone, for example describes it to you, and you are imagining (guessing) what it looks like.
Note that as >>289 said, きれいそうだ and きれいだそう are very different, just like 優しそう and 優しいそう. In both cases the latter is used for hearsay evidence.
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Anonymous2012-05-23 2:17
So what's the best resource to acquire more grammar after Tae Kim's guide?
There should be a chart or something with tips on the 'look up what you don't know part'. It's all well and good to know how to use google, but if you don't know precisely what it is you're actually looking for, it can be rather cumbersome to go through so many pages, reading potential rubbish.
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Anonymous2012-05-23 7:06
>>292
Sorry, yeah, you know what I mean. I'm still a mid-level learner so I still make shitloads of obvious mistakes.
After Heisig, I'm thinking of doing the following. Currently, I've got cards like the keyword with the question 'cut きる' on the front, and '切' on the back. But I'm thinking of going through them and replacing them from sentences from jishou. For this example, I'd suspend that card, and make a new one with '指をきりました。' on the front, and '指を切りました。' on the back.
So I have three questions regarding that. Once, is it stupid for some reason I haven't noticed? Two, should I put any English in to help me along? Three, should I put all the kanji in hiragana so I can effectively do two-in-one, or would this make it too hard to read, unclear what it meant, etc?
Thanks.
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Anonymous2012-05-24 3:52
>>302
Learn however the fuck you want to, you touchy bastard. Are you so goddamn incapable of making your own decisions that others, completely different from yourself in every possible way with regard to language acquisition, should tell you how to learn? Do you even understand what it means to learn? Holy shit.
In summary, if you don't even know HOW to learn by yourself, you'll never learn a goddamn thing.
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Anonymous2012-05-24 3:54
>>303
And before you create some half-brained, smart-ass response, you're the only one who can figure out the best method for you. Try a bunch of different shit. See what works. Stop posting here until you have a question that you can't solve by yourself. Fuck.
So you are basically telling me that, while you COULD let me know what worked for you, so that I can see that, at the very least, it's not a method that will universally fail, I should potentially waste months when I could have got pointers from someone who had been through my situation prior to me?
Why on Earth would someone asking for help infuriate you so much?
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Anonymous2012-05-24 4:11
>>303 >>304
Chill out, there's no need for the anger. The question was perfectly valid and he obviously put more thought than just "HOW TO LEARN PLEASE". Sharing learning methods is a great way to get ideas to try out.
>>302
I don't think there's much value in going from hiragana to kanji. What I would do is just do eng>kanji, that way you get both. It also improves the speed at which you can recall specific words in conversation.
Do you mean just like individual words for vocabulary? Or do you mean having a Japanese sentence, blanking out part of it, and having the English key word somewhere on the card, and I have to think about how to write in the kanji & kana?
Or have I misunderstood completely?
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Anonymous2012-05-24 4:20
>>305
I didn't use fucking flashcards. Maybe you should. Maybe you shouldn't. Are you really trying to find methods that won't "universally fail"? Are you that desperate and retarded? You piss me off because you're not looking for answers, you're looking for direction. And, when you learn by yourself, you need to find your own direction.
Are you really asking if you should write English on the same flashcard? Does that make it easier? Maybe. Does that make you learn faster? Maybe. Do you want to make it easier? That's up to fucking you. Are you really asking if you should put all of the kanji in hiragana? If you can't fucking read it, you can't fucking read it. If its confusing, you don't know it.
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Anonymous2012-05-24 11:44
>>307
I was talking about vocab. If you're going to do sentences I think the best way to work is to look at Japanese sentences and then have literal English translations. This allows you to comprehend quickly and better understand the way Japanese is put together.
>>308
I'm beginning to wonder if you aren't just a troll. Of course some methods will work better for some than others. That doesn't mean it's wrong to share with others and discuss how effective a method was for you. Maybe I learned Japanese by reading the backs of Japanese shampoo bottles. That doesn't mean it was effective, and there were almost certainly better ways for me to have learned it.
There's nothing wrong with feeling lost when undertaking something as large as learning a language. Why don't you share what worked for you?
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Anonymous2012-05-24 12:09
So I got this sentence from Jishou: その火山は今年２度噴火した。
However I have no idea how to pronounce 度. Rikaichan gives me either たび or たんび for 'time; times', so if it's this one, how do I choose? However, it also gives 'ど’ for the counter for occurences.
I'm most interested in finding out how to figure these out on my own, if there's a method other than having seen it a billion times, though the answer would also be great, thanks.
So was there any way of seeing it was meant to be that, other than having seen it before? If I were just going by Rikaichan, it could've been either. Do counters take priority or something?
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Anonymous2012-05-24 12:38
After a number, I'd always use the counter unless I have some strong reason tb lieve otherwise. rikaichan also gives ふたたび for this, but ordinarily that's written 再び, so I'd assume にど
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Anonymous2012-05-24 17:03
>>312
'nitabi' is not a word. And very awkward at that. 'santabi' exists but is very uncommon.
二度 can be read as futatabi but 再び takes on that meaning, and has a different nuance.
You dont need to see it a billion times to know its not a word. Its usually always do in examples like this.
>>316
Thanks, I used to have it but never re-installed it and forgot about it.
Google translate gave me "drink/drinking/drinking" and what I am currently using gave me some weird definition with "A drink/the drink/drinking".
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Anonymous2012-05-25 5:04
>>319
飲酒 is the consumption of alcohol (see 飲酒運転)
飲み物 is a drink of any kind
飲む is the verb to drink.
Rikaichan just uses EDICT. You can easily check the difference using that same database at jisho.org. There are also about a million other different dictionaries (I use alc.co.jp)
I feel like people aren't able to google effectively.
>>309
>If you're going to do sentences I think the best way to work is to look at Japanese sentences and then have literal English translations. This allows you to comprehend quickly and better understand the way Japanese is put together.
English does not make you better understand the way Japanese works. Everything >>308 writes is spot-on, albeit blunt, while your suggestions are possibly damaging to their studies.
The problem being that >>308 is so vauge that he couldn't be wrong at all. Saying the answer to question might be X, but might not, doesn't actully help at all. Again, nothing wrong with sharing study methods
Holy shit. Sorry for being somewhat off topic, but thanks a lot for that. I've been typing hiragana into google translate to get a feel for how it's pronounced. This is far, far more efficient.
I didn't even say I used EDICT. When I want to look up a word, I go to ALC and look at sentences it's used in. Did you read my post at all? Or did you just want to insult other people?
>>327
I missed the mention of ALC (there was too much EDICT in the post for me to look past). While it certainly is better than Jim Breen's bastard child, ALC is meant as an E-J glossary for translators, and probably not the best suited for language learners. I guess I just don't see why you'd use it instead of a real dictionary like kenkyusha.
I suggest using SRS in whichever way works best for you. This is what >>308 wrote, that you need to find your own direction. I don't do SRS at all, because it doesn't work for me: it's skull-numbingly boring, and only served to slow me down and avoid studies. Language learning is a long process, so what if you "waste" weeks or months while experimenting? Laying the foundation for your studies, tailoring a direction for yourself to follow, that's equally as important as the actual studying itself.
>>327
After having written this, it might seem hypocritical, and may as well be, to proclaim that "English does not make you better understand the way Japanese works" and is a Bad Idea. Translations are useful in the beginning stage, providing you with fairly accurate descriptions of what is going on in the original sentences, but to keep relying on English (or whatever other L1/L2/etc you use) too much later on is not going to do much good for your comprehension.
No matter how literal the translations are, there are nuances, implications and concepts that just won't translate. This is not a problem for the translator, who will always localize their source material to make it understandable for the target language's audience, but very unfortunate for the learner.
As a learner, weaning off using English et al., instead trying to understand Japanese in a Japanese context, is an important step. This isn't specific to Japanese, but goes for all attempting language acquisition. It might be extra difficult for monolinguals who haven't grown up thinking in this way, but tying words to your own internal concepts instead of the closest L1 approximation is a good starting point. This is even more important when it comes to grammar, which usually is more abstract.
>>327
Regarding my reasons for posting, I'm here to give advice just as much as I come with the intent to shitpost, and preferably in combination whenever possible. You really shouldn't climb into the asshole of the Internet expecting friendly, intelligent discourse.
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Anonymous2012-05-25 19:53
>>329
My entire study at this point consists of reading light novels and putting things I would like to actively use into an SRS. I'm well aware of the different kinds of dictionaries, although I don't generally look things up unless I'm completely clueless. I like ALC because it shows things in context with a nuanced translation.
Please note that I'm not the person who originally asked about what method would be best, I'm quite comfortable with the way I study and learn. It's worked well for me.
>>330
The quality of discourse is what the users make it. I've been on this site for 5 years, I know what to expect - but that doesn't mean we can't have a civil discussion, without saying "You fucking idiot, . . ." before making an actual point.
Kanji odyssey says this means "Because I've injured my right hand, I can't write any letters." Do they specifically mean the kind of letters you send off to people, or just writing things in general? I would have expected 手紙 to be present if it were the former?
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Anonymous2012-05-26 7:45
I suppose this question isnt limited to Japanese but since it is the language I am learning this is as good a place as anywhere else. Been studying for about 2 years, about 8 months of constant immersion however, and can understand 標準語 fairly well. However, since starting speaking 8 months ago it doesnt seem as if my output has got any better. Conversation which leaves familiar territory is a huge struggle and I find it impossible to create compound sentences on the fly. With AJATT and antimoon and others purporting a few years of input and you can reach fluency, I am beginning to question whether their idea of fluency is the same as mine. What is one to do to achieve more natural output abilities? Some places say input is the only thing that matters. Some say output is the way to go. 流暢に話せる方法は？
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Anonymous2012-05-26 8:07
>>333
字 is basically 文字, a character or letter, but is more general. 字が書けない essentially just equates to 'I cant write' unless context provides a specific character (but using 文字 would be more appropriate in that case)
>>334
Fluency has no definition. A 4 year old child is just as 'fluent' as a 60 year old professor of English. The latter obviously knows more words and grammar structures but their 'output' is for all intents and purposes the same. Its not a matter of one or the other. The professor can speak in his way because hes received input. But the same is true for the the 4 year old. I know some people who can speak Japanese 'fluently' but they make frequent mistakes, know only basic forms, conjunctions, grammar etc. Take your time. Learn. Speak. Listen.
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Anonymous2012-05-26 8:14
>>334
This is pretty obvious. Its not a matter of one or the other, input or output. You need to do everything. If you dont speak, you'll assume 雨 and 飴 or 雲 and 蜘蛛 are pronounced differently, or pronounce づ incorrectly. If you dont read, you wont know the difference between 作る and 創る, or written forms that sometimes come up in spoken language.
Sorry to have to ask this, but does anyone have any links to the JPod 101 lessons? I've looked for quite a while, but can only find the beginner lessons, which are of no help
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Anonymous2012-05-27 0:53
Quick confirmation: 貯金は切り崩す means something along the line of "the savings is cut down", right?
切り崩す literally means "cut and break/pull down". It usually is used with regard to destroying defenses incrementally or whittling away at something overtime, changing it in the process. With the latter understanding, the translation would be something like "cut into, raid, etc." However, the most appropriate word to use in this situation is 取り崩す, which is defined as "to take away until nothing remains".
Actually, we say "cut into savings" frequently in English, so that comparison doesn't necessarily work.
There is actually some discussion about which is "proper". I don't really think prescriptive grammar is the best thing to base our language learning on, but we have to choose something.
But there is also this NHK article: www.nhk.or.jp/bunken/summary/kotoba/kotobax3/pdf/063.pdf which I rather like because the author realizes that dictionaries only reflect the way people use words, and not the other way around.
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Anonymous2012-05-27 1:59
>>341
Adding to that some relevant examples on ALC:
（人）の利益を切り崩す
cut deep into someone's profits
資金を切り崩す
raid funds
and I don't think we can simply say "it's wrong".
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Anonymous2012-05-27 3:01
>>341 >>342
Are you talking to yourself? I never said anything was "wrong" or that we can't say "cut into savings" in English. Most people would use, or in the very least designate, 取り崩す as appropriate in this case. That's the general consensus. Regardless of any debate of which is "more correct". The OP's question was whether the words equate to "the savings is cut down", which is just bad English. That's it.
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Anonymous2012-05-27 3:26
>>343
Sorry, for some reason I saw him as just asking what it means and then you said it was wrong. I misunderstood.
I'm preparing for an oral test tomorrow and I just read a point on the marking sheet that says: "Say ‘しつれいします’ three times appropriately." which is confusing the shit out of me. Most of my tests have been straightforward grammar and dictation written tests, so I'm very poor when it comes to actual speech. This oral test is a 2 minute 'show and tell' sort of thing, so when should I be using しつれいします? As I enter the room and when I'm leaving, but when else?
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Anonymous2012-05-27 6:44
>>343
Well, the original sentence goes "貯金も切り崩したりしてるから。。。" which I figure it means "Since the savings is also cut down, among other things...". It makes sense overall but like you said, the dictionary is telling me otherwise so I had to confirm it.
I won't be surprised if this is regional dialect, though.
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Anonymous2012-05-27 6:50
Is the counter word 件 ever used for areas or ground sites?
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Anonymous2012-05-27 11:10
>>345
As an actual "excuse me", when you make a mistake, etc.
>>346
"I'm also doing things like cutting into my savings"
We don't say "the savings is cut down" in English. That doesn't make sense.
>>347
No. 件 is the counter for items, incidents, reports, happenings, etc. 所 is places.
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Anonymous2012-05-27 15:44
Could someone translate this? Of course a detailed translation would be nice, but a quick explanation would be cool too. I'm especially interested in the top left panel.
How much Japanese would you say an intern needs to properly get around in Japan? Also, what would be the most efficient way to learn?
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Anonymous2012-05-27 17:54
>>348
Okay, so the general meaning remains the same thing along that lines, and the argument was just about how to put it in English words. "the savings is cut down" might make sense in the way that "budget", "investment", "capital" or some other monetary funds are cut down (figuratively) so that's also a choice for a more liberal, less literal translation.
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Anonymous2012-05-27 18:13
>>350
Around the 200th post or more so is some suggestions of how to cover the basic, so refer to that. Past the basic, you mostly figure your own way out.
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Anonymous2012-05-28 3:55
その女の人は男の人に時計をあげました
Genki gives the translation as something like "That woman gave the man a watch." Am I failing to understand the grammar, or could it also mean "That women gives men watches?" If I'm wrong, then how would you say that?
Plurals are not explicit, but you'll often see 達（たち） added in the case of people. It could be that but it's rather unlikely.
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Anonymous2012-05-28 4:47
'見える means "something or someone is spontaneously visible"; 見られる, on the other hand, means that the subject of the sentence can see something or someone actively rather than passively.'
Could someone help me elucidate the difference here? I don't understand why looking at the sea is considered 'spontaneously visible', and a movie is 'actively rather than passively'. Is it due to the dynamic change in the movie, due to the fact that you had to move to a different place to see the movie, etc? I can't figure it out.
>>353
It couldn't mean "That women gives men watches?" because the sentence is in the past tense. To say that, it'd be "その女の人は男性(たち)に時計をあげます".
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Anonymous2012-05-28 5:32
>>355
The ocean is a "sight", if you want to think of it that way. It's something you would put on a postcard, or take a picture of. A movie is not. It is something actively watched. The ocean is something passively watched, in comparison.
>>355
It isn't "looking at the sea" that's considered spontaneously visible, it's the sea. If it's within your field of vision, you'll spontaneously see it.
That kinda works, but what if we have ichidan verbs disguised as godan verbs? For example, we have 切る which is an godan and 着る which is an ichidan. Are all of these correct verbs negations?
着ぬ 着ん 切らぬ 切らん.
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Anonymous2012-05-28 11:29
>>362
They're correct. Verb conjugation is regular except for the repeat offenders, する せぬ and 来る 来ぬ(きぬ). I'm actually not sure if there are alternative conjugations/readings for that last one, it's a bother looking up stuff on the phone.
It's the difference between to watch and to see. You can see something without watching it.
I'm seeing a bird: The bird is withing your field of vision.
I'm watching a bird: You're actively following the bird with your eyes.
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Anonymous2012-05-28 18:05
I just saw this sentence:
通りすがりの転入生.
A transer student passing by.
I can understand the meaning easily enough, but how does the すがり part work gramatically? I can guess that it's some kind of conjugation of 過ぎる, but how does it differ?
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Anonymous2012-05-28 19:03
>>367
>I can guess that it's some kind of conjugation of 過ぎる, but how does it differ?
It's not. すがり comes from すがる. It's best to think of 通りすがり as a single word.
Actually, looking it up a little more, I can't find direct evidence that it comes from that verb, even though it makes logical sense. Nevertheless, it's still best learned as its own word (like 通りがかり).
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Anonymous2012-05-29 0:03
What word do you use to describe the relationship between senior executives and lower-level employees? ____ 関係
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Anonymous2012-05-29 0:27
>>370
上下関係 is the first thing that comes to my mind, although that isn't workplace-specific. Is this a test question or something?
が早いか (perhaps you have already looked it up) just means "the instant that", "as soon as", etc. だす when added to a verb stem indicates doing something in an "outward" direction or beginning an action. In this case it is the latter.
"As soon as (he/they/etc) got to the restaurant, (he/they/etc) began eating."
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Anonymous2012-05-29 9:10
>>376
Also, the grammar seems a little off. が早いか takes a verb in dictionary form. A better way of phrasing it would be レストランに着くが早いか (as soon as they arrived at the restaurant).
"Note that both 'といいですね' and 'といいんですが' mean that you are hoping that something nice *happens*. This means that these patterns cannot be used in cases where you hope to do soemthing nice, which is under your control."
Do they specifically mean that I can't use them if I, the speaker, am wishing for something nice that is under my control, or do they mean the subject? For example, could I use this pattern to say that I hope someone else gets into university, even though I can't use it for myself in the same situation?
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Anonymous2012-05-29 9:22
>>380
Using it for yourself getting into university is fine. You don't have explicit control over that. Saying you hope you yourself apply to university doesn't make sense (it doesn't in English either).
I had assumed it was more about meeting the offer. Sure, you do have control over the grades you get, I've heard plenty of "I hope I get so-and-so" regarding scores/grades.
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Anonymous2012-05-29 9:35
>>382
It's less "hope" and more "that'd be nice if, etc"
There's still an element that isn't fully under your control. Your instructor is the one who decides the final grade.
You can say 来年日本に行けるといいですね but not 来年日本に行くといいですね (talking about yourself). The only time you CAN say 行くといいですね is if there is something beyond your control involved (i.e., the very act of 'going' is beyond your control, such as being placed there on work).
Ok, say I were planning on going to Japan as long as I had enough money, but getting the money depended on something that wasn't in my control, such as someone deciding to lend it to me. Would I still use 来年日本に行けるといいですね?
Also, what kind of message would you be giving across using 来年日本に行くといいですね if you were being placed there on work? Is it something like "I've got no choice in the matter, but I'm not too bothered", or "I've wanted to, but now I couldn't say no even if I changed my mind", or what? Can't see what you'd be trying to get across, as opposed to just stating that you had to go there without the といいですね.
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Anonymous2012-05-29 11:16
>>385
Yes, because that's about being able to go, which is out of your control. Going itself is not.
>"I've got no choice in the matter, but I'm not too bothered"
Huh? Why would it be anything like this? In this situation 行くといいですね would mean "I hope I go (get placed) in Japan". Another situation this could be used is if there's a group of people deciding where to go for a trip, and one person wants to go to Japan, so he says to his friend (before they have finished deciding) 日本に行くといいですね "I hope (the group decides to) to go to Japan".
None of this is about being forced, I don't know why you'd assume that. It's about hoping for a good outcome.
Just to clarify, in the "being placed there on work" thing, the speaker hasn't actually been placed anywhere yet. He just knows he will be sent overseas/away. It wouldn't make any sense to say that if you already knew you were going to Japan.
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Anonymous2012-05-29 16:56
Are there any sites where I can learn Japanese phonology. I mean instructions how to really make the sounds with the position of tongue and everything. Not those "pronounce a bit like word cheese"
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Anonymous2012-05-29 22:25
I've only seen つまらない used as adjective, but what does it mean as a verb as in something like それをつまらない?
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Anonymous2012-05-30 0:05
>>389
Where have you seen that? That's not proper Japanese. You will potentially see つまらない (詰まらない) in the sense of "doesn't get clogged", but that has nothing to do with the idiomatic meaning of "boring" or "bored".
And anyway, that wouldn't take を anyway (intransitive).
It's likely you saw something like this (random google result):結果を受け止めたイチローは、それを「つまらない」という、やや荒っぽい言葉で表した。
This つまらない doesn't go with the を, it's part of a noun phrase (つまらないというやや荒っぽい言葉). それを goes with 表した.
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Anonymous2012-05-30 6:14
>>391
Hmm... that cleared up somewhat. The original sentence follows それをつまらない with a って particle but つまらない was not clearly put in square brackets or quotation marks or any of the kind so I'm not too sure.
Posting context like that helps with explanation. You should never assume that something is unrelated or unimportant if you're asking about a grammar pattern or word.
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Anonymous2012-05-30 20:23
Can someone explain the ~など grammar for me? Or link me to a site that does so.
It can be used at the end of a noun as a suffix or, rarely, on its own.
It's more so a written word, but it can be used sometimes in speeches or formal speaking.
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Anonymous2012-05-30 21:00
Which is the go-to word for "Twilight" or "Sunset"?
I've got Higure, Hakumei, Tasogare. Which one would I most likely use?
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Anonymous2012-05-30 21:27
>>397
日暮れ is more often used for temporal evening, literally when it gets dark out. We call that "twilight" too but obviously there's a big difference between the two. 黄昏 is more "twilight", in the poetic and temporal sense, and shares the verb 黄昏れる, which means both to become twilight (in terms of day) and to wade or decline, as in interest, health, life, etc.
I've rarely seen 薄命 used, except maybe once or twice in novels.
夕日（ゆうひ） is often used for the actual sunset (the setting sun) itself as well.
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Anonymous2012-05-31 19:06
Can you recommend any texts to read for practicing Japanese? I'm kinda running out of material. I'm at about 1200 Kanji and should not have any problems with grammar. Even if the texts are not meant for practicing Japanese. Maybe something like easier Visual Novels or Light Novels.
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Anonymous2012-05-31 20:28
I'm not sure if this is really on topic, but are there any Japanese torrent sites for things like doujinshi or music?
I'm looking for an artbook by one of my favorite artists, but I'm pretty sure there's no way of finding it on an English torrent site like nyaa.eu
Any recommendations?
nyaa probably has the highest concentration of Japanese torrents that I'm aware of, at least for any public trackers. Japanese people don't use torrents very much. Share and Perfect Dark are the primary forms of p2p exchange.
This is the reason why there are so many downloads of anime raws on nyaa. It's Japanese people (look at the IPs when you're downloading).
There's also just less piracy in general. Many (most) doujinshi for example are never digitally distributed in any form, even the very popular ones. There's a reason why anime DVDs still sell at $70+ for 2-3 episodes.
There's tons of translations for this sentence, depending on who's saying these lines, with what level of politeness, intent, emotion, etc. etc. The above is basically one idea that works though.
This sentence: "I am expected to speak at least two languages."
Something like "私は少なくとも二つの言語を話せるのは期待されています。"?
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Anonymous2012-06-01 13:49
Is there a good site for downloading raw manga these days? The few I've managed to google have been filled with dead links from Megaupload or the like.
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Anonymous2012-06-01 14:45
>>409
The number of doujinshi that pop up on TT are miniscule compared to the total number that exist, and jpopsuki is a private tracker.
You can use 二つの言語 interchangeably with ２ヶ国語 but the latter is the natural counter for languages and futatsu just sounds a little plain/naive. が or と are the particles to use with kitaisuru.
>>417
have you seen the crap that gets uploaded? the rest is probably so horrible that nobody could be bothered to scan it
they didn't say anything about the tracker having to be public, and jpopsuki isn't exactly hard getting into if one's interested. it's a pretty shitty community, but they've got almost anything uploaded. so yeah, invite beggers may feel free to hit me up, i don't give a fuck, but please don't shit down the thread.
>>421
>Is there a kanji tied to this counter that is usually omitted?
I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Anonymouse2012-06-01 23:44
I've been studying Hiragana for 3 days 1 hour each day. I've completley memorized あいうえお ( I know their stroke order and symbol by just thinking about their sound) I also know かくけこ (I can remember them if I think a little.) Am I going at to slow of a pace? Should I increase the amount of studying I do each day. And how much time should I devote to the Hiragana before starting Genki I?
The pace you're studying at hardly matters, and if you increase the amount of studying, you will naturally learn more faster. The only advice would be to stay diligent. Learning Japanese is an everyday thing, not a when-I-feel-like-it thing. If you don't like the amount progress you're making, study more.
Yes, it is a very good idea to grasp Hiragana and Katakana before Genki. The first 2 chapters have romaji for those who can't, but the book won't be holding your hand if you can't read the kana's. You can use the first 2 chapters as practise material.
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Anonymous2012-06-02 17:43
In the sentence
この川の水は清く透き通っている。
Would 透き and 清く be referring to the verb? I'm not sure what 通る means in this context, but I'm assuming it's something like the flow of the water.
I'm trying to learn so I could read and talk Japanese. Is it really necessary to also learn the stroke order? I have Hiragana and Katakana memorized and wanted to ask this before I move to basic grammar.
It will help immensely if you know the general stroke order. Writing will be much more fluid.
Small differences here and there are not important though, as long as you understand why the stroke order came to be.
Japanese and Chinese kanji have different stroke orders anyway(even if it's the same kanji), and neither is any less correct.
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Anonymous2012-06-02 21:56
>>430
Ah, okay. I suppose I should know that too. Thanks!
By the way, shameful question, but are there any good iOS apps for learning Japanese?
If you feel like paying some 10 bucks or have a jailbroken device, I would recommend the app named "Japanese". Red icon with white scribbles(kanji for book). Not only is it the best dictionary I've encountered(internet included), it also let's you create your own "lists", be it kanji's or vocabulary. It will also automatically make your "lists" into flashcards to review. Everytime you look up a word, simply put it in your own, hopefully well sorted, "lists" and make a point of going back to review the words or kanji you've looked up.
Bottom line, it's great if you got some self-dicipline. I really haven't found any good apps for learning Japanese in the traditional sense.
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Anonymous2012-06-03 14:15
Im currently using these apps and websites to practice memorising kana, hirigana, it works,but
>could you recomend any others to spice it up please??
密室. I actually heard the word in Japanese before I ever knew it existed in English (戯言シリーズ)
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Anonymous2012-06-03 19:01
What's the difference between 二度と and 再び?
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Anonymous2012-06-03 19:18
>>436
The former is negative, the latter is positive. Never again, Again.
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Anonymous2012-06-03 19:32
Can someone give me some general guidelines on the -込む that is attached to many verbs? Just like >>377 did with -出す.
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Anonymous2012-06-03 19:33
>>438
Oh, and also -掛ける as an attachment to verbs. Although I kinda get the feeling that kakeru means so many different things it becomes meaningless to generalize the word.
こむ means "into", especially in the sense of "diving" or "sinking". It's usually a separate entry, though, unlike 出す. 入り込む, のめり込む, 考えこむ, etc.
かける is, as you said, very idiomatic, but the most general is "to do something halfway". 死にかける is a good example of this, and one of the most common (another is ～しかける). As a verb on its own it also means many things, from "to lay a trap" to "to dial a phone number".
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Anonymous2012-06-03 19:39
>>440
しかける also has its own idiomatic meanings, so on second thought maybe not the best example for the "half done" usage. 言いかけた is another good one, though.
>>441
Instead of "doing something halfway", 掛ける is better understood in its actual/primary meaning of "to hang, roist, or raise". When you hang something, the idea (at least in so far as its Japanese understanding) is that you begin an action and then it is kind of frozen, made to wait, literally just "hanging there" etc. Any further action outside of or as a result of the primary action is not included. Obviously there's always some exceptions and this is just a way to think about what the verb "means", not a guide on its usage which would simply require you to memorize it and not worry about a deeper understanding. For example, the idea of "hang" for some verbs is literal. Like 振りかける, where you "shake and then hang" (sprinkle) salt or pepper onto something. Or 立て掛ける, where you "stand and then hang" (lean) something up against something else.
仕掛ける: to commence (but not finish), to lay a mine (but not detonate it), to wage war (but not fight it)
言掛ける: to begin to speak, to stop halfway in speaking
話掛ける: to being to talk to (but not enter into conversation)
I agree with trying to understand things in their original meaning, but 話しかける doesn't mean you don't actually enter conversation. It just refers to beginning a conversation, especially when it's begun specifically by one party.
>>446
You're misunderstanding something. It doesn't "mean" anything. It's usage does not imply the content of a conversation or even that a conversation must or will result. When you 話しかける someone, there will probably be further talking but you're trying to put that inside the meaning itself, but its just not there. It's the same as accost, begin to talk to, etc.
I know man, that's why I said I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying 話しかける explicitly excludes the possibility of starting conversation. You were actually saying it doesn't explicitly include the fact that you started a conversation.
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Anonymous2012-06-04 8:42
How would you, in that case, differentiate 投げる and 投げかける?
Not sure if this uses the same meaning of 掛ける as 話しかける.
投げ掛ける is understood as cast, shadow, or even to pose in more colloquial usage. A good example is 疑問を投げ掛ける, to raise or cast doubt or question. The difference with most 掛ける verbs is that there's a slight implication that there will be a natural result from the action, because so much of it is one-sided. As with "commence" and "accost", the emphasis is focused on the action itself, or towards the side of the speaker/doer.
The implication is exactly the same as 話しかける, its use and range is just a little different. I wouldn't advise try to stretch your understanding of a supplementary verb to fit every single verb out there.
Yes, of course. I'm just trying to find some general guidelines on the meaning of these supplementary verbs.
And on that subject, I thought of another one that I need covered.
-合う
Rikaichan says "to do to each other". Is this good enough or are there more general meanings I should be aware of?
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Anonymous2012-06-04 15:10
>>454
Speaking of, I always have problems grasping what 合わせる actually means. I has so many meanings I treat it like I normally treat 掛ける -skip it and hope I understand the context later.
What is the most common use of 合わせる？
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Anonymous2012-06-04 18:42
>>454
Basically. Though "to each other" might not fit all contexts. The idea of "mutuality" is primary.
>>455
If you're having trouble with what it means, you should look at a dictionary. The problem with what you're doing now is you're looking at an English meaning of a Japanese word. Which doesn't work at all. Because what that means is we don't have a word that fits perfectly with 合わせる (which is pretty funny considering its meaning). All the meanings are basically the same thing. Look at what connects them if you want a general grasp of the word or read the Japanese definition (even though that still is a shot in the dark). This is some pretty basic stuff. If you stop micromanaging your education, you'll get a better one.
I guess you're right, I have been micromanaging a bit too much lately.
Well, I do have a legit question though, how do I differentiate between 招く, 誘う and 招待する?
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Anonymous2012-06-04 20:15
Although I have to admit, awaseru aside, I have gained a lot of insight from having -kakeru, -komu -dasu and now -au explained to me. While the explanations do not cover all verbs with those supplements, I feel like I upped my vocabulary quite a bit for a relatively small effort.
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Anonymous2012-06-04 20:36
>>457
招く is invite in the sense you call on or someone something or someone in a general sense, or in a more removed understanding, you cause it (often indirectly). It's not limited to people, like 誤解を招く or 病気を招く
誘う is invite in the sense of inviting someone to something or towards something, a party or event. More removed, it can also mean to "invite" someone towards temptation. Though its usually limited to people there are phrases like 涙を誘う. You can't use 招く in this case and understanding why will give you a good idea of how to use 誘う.
招待 is simply invitation. It's the Chinese-based word that acts as the root for different words like 招待状, 招待席 and so on. It's basically 誘う but used strictly for people, companies made up of people, etc.
Let's see if I've understood this correctly, >>459
Am I right when I say that 涙を招く could be used if the tears are a metaphor for sadness?
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Anonymous2012-06-04 21:26
>>460
Actually, that was stupid as fuck. Yes, I clearly understand the difference now. Thanks.
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Anonymous2012-06-06 21:07
I repeatedly find myself making rookie mistakes regarding the で and に particles. What are some common verbs that deceivingly use に intead of で?
For example:
私は東京に住んでいます。
私は東京にいます。
From having failed a few times too many, I realise now that both 住む and 居る are supposed to use に even though every fiber in my body wants to say で。
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Anonymous2012-06-07 0:17
>>462
Hard fast rule: Aside from で without relation to the verb, it is almost always location of action (second to being a means to that action). There is nothing deceiving if you understand the logic dictating the language.
Understanding it as location of actions is easy for cases like 居る, because "being" is a special case, closer to a state, not an action performed (save any philosophical bullshit for languages which give a fuck). 住む is the same, to a lesser extent. Things get kind of confusing with 暮らす, which normally takes で, though plenty of people use に, especially in modifying clauses and noun phrases. After that, hard verbs, actions verbs, "doing" verbs will almost always take で with regard to location without any direction or movement.
I think that last one you said might've been what's been troubling me about で. What do you mean with regard to locationg without any direction or movement?
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Anonymous2012-06-07 15:18
How do I say "I do not claim that A is in any way better than B at Japanese, but..."
>>466
Basically just that で doesn't work with movement like に does. There's a lot of ways to look at it but basically, if its a hard action verb, it's likely going to be で.
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Anonymous2012-06-08 10:34
Anyone know if it's possible to get 日本社会探検 as a PDF(for free)?
Also, is there any difference between 支払う and 払う?
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Anonymous2012-06-08 11:28
>>470
I'm sure someone has scanned it but if you're looking for a textbook, I wouldn't recommend it. Without a class or curriculum to support it, all you really have is a poorly arranged list of grammar and 12 short essays for reading practice. There are no guides or explanations, just information (which is free [and more plentiful on the internet]).
Yes and no. Both are essentially "to pay" and can be used almost interchangeably in most any situation, but 支払う is more often used in what you might call "official" situations or where you want to add a level of distinction: paying off debt or bills, where money is owed or a loss exists. It's better understood as "make a payment", even in the sense you pay your bill at a restaurant. The meaning of 支 (support) kind of plays into it; you're paying FOR something. 払う is just generally "paying", and just has a kind of whatever feeling; you're more paying TOWARD it. Plus, 払う can be used metaphorically or in phrases outside of money, like 注意を払う (to pay attention).
When I was living in Japan, I'd often use and hear 保険料を支払いたいんですが・・・ and レジで払えばいいんですか？Those should give you a good idea of how to distinguish IRL.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 8:33
>>471
Yeah, I got a scholarship for 4 months at a university in Nagoya this fall semester. I think their courses for foreign students are a bit below my level, but I ain't backing out of 4 free months in Japan. I managed dig up some info about the course litterature which is why I'm looking for this book. Of course, I realize that the internet(specifically this thread) is the way to go for any questions that a dictionary can't answer.
It's quite impressive that you can make such a precise distinction. You'd do a better job than my former university instructors for sure. THanks.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 10:01
>>472
...so yeah, I totally graduated from Nanzan a few months ago. I can vouch that their intensive Japanese courses are extremely well taught (at least mine were; it depends on the set of instructors you get at the level you take), maybe not "challenging" in the same sense but you will learn. IJ600 uses 日本社会探検, so if that's the level you're looking to get placed at, you'll do far more with the book as a class than you could ever do alone, trust me. IJ700 is pretty intense too (being the highest they offer [only in the spring though], they max it out).
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Anonymous2012-06-09 10:43
>>473
Wait, is this the same dude who's been helping me up until now?
Anyway, yeah, I thought I might as well get the book and look it through since I've got a summer break now. Also, I definitely intend to learn a lot at IJ600 and from being in Japan at all.
Have you got the kanji/grammar list from Nanzan yet? Going over IJ600 kanji and grammar might serve you better than the textbook.
Although, and this is just me personally, I didn't study anything new at all before I went. I got real solid on the basics and what I already knew but that's it. Study abroad shouldn't be treated the same as a chapter test at your university in my opinion; it's a deepening experience that you just don't "study" for. All the entrants always get all excited and brag about how much they studied for the placement test but... its a placement test: it's meant to tell you where you REALLY ARE, not where you studied to be. You might place higher if you memorize more kanji but does that really mean you understand them? Not in my opinion.
Anyway, if you get Hamada or Tsuda teaching your class, you're in good hands. IJ700 had a teacher named Okada that was batshit insane. Try to stay clear of that one.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 12:01
The thing is, there is little else I can do right now as far as Japanese goes except for studying(although I do hang out with the japanese exchange students here now and then). Also, even though I took a university course in Japanese, I've never actually studied for my grades or the like. I have from the start studied because I wanted to learn Japanese. The placement test doesn't really bother me, I just assumed that I'd get into IJ600 since they set the benchmark at 700 kanji and I'm comfortably above 1000 right now. I don't doubt that there will be plenty of stuff I don't know even at IJ600, so I want to get as much of the raw schoolwork out of the way as possible so I can focus on the experience, just like you said.
Also, if I manage to get my reading to a level where I can process normal articles without abusing rikai-chan too much before leaving for Japan, I assume that will just make the experience much more enjoyable.
I haven't seen any kanji/grammar list actually, you happen to have that available?
Also, holy shit wow this is amazing. Thanks, I'll jot down Hamada and Tsuda(and Okada).
I wanted to ask, how much of the raw writing(by hand) did you do at IJ600? Since I've pretty much only been studying on the computer lately, I feel pretty bad about writing kanji's by hand. It felt good when I was in my hardcore kanji session but I don't think I'd be able to write even half of them right now. Of course, there's no problem when reading or writing on the computer.
Do I need to go back and brush up on writing(again)? I've heard that they don't really focus on kanjis'.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 12:27
>>476
Well, I definitely recommend getting more face-time with Japanese conversation while you can during the summer. Especially if you choose to live in a dorm (I lived the the Nagoya Koryuu Kaikan [also where I found my significant other but that's a different story]). Getting acquainted early with the fucked up language that Japanese college students call "Japanese" will make your life outside of school much more comfortable. No one really speaks Nagoyaben (except old people you'll meet on the street) but its definitely in some areas of youth language (しとる instead of している, わ instead of よ). You might not pick up all of it in 4 months but you'll start to recognize it. I'd just recommend getting some speaking practice in now, even if its by yourself. You can read and write kanji anywhere in the world.
Knowing more kanji is good but there's grammar and writing that also factor into the test. It at least sounds like you know what you're doing, so don't worry about it; you'll do fine. Again, I'd stress going over what you already know. There's homework and whatnot but you'll have plenty of time to go out and experience stuff. I only studied (books, desk, denshi jisho) when I had to and I feel like I got a better experience because of it.
Well, depending on how you're going to Nanzan (exchange, IES, scholarship program etc.) you'll probably get different things at different times but I went through Indiana University and got packets with prep-material to get my visa, course expectations, schedules, dorm info, everything. I have it (the kanji/grammar list) handy but I don't really have a way to scan it or anything. You'll probably be getting it at some point soon. Also when/if you get the brochure, I wrote an article on the Japanese Literature IV elective they offer. Just sayin'.
Hamada's very prescriptive but just a really good educator. Tsuda is the sweetest little old Japanese lady ever and will do EVERYTHING to make sure you understand the lesson. I also had a bro named Hanashiro who bounced back between 600 and 400/500. I describe him as a creepy uncle. He's hard into gunpla and cracks little jokes to himself. I liked him but I didn't learn that much in his class. I had a roommate who had Okada and she was described as the hardest bitch ever. People would be confused and ask her to go over something again and she would outright ignore or even laugh at them. She was just a hardass. I'd also recommend any elective classes from Yamada (sweet, genius lady), Hosoya (eccentric, thinks he knows English Japanese literature professor and Todai grad), or Matsuda (another sweet old(er) lady who lived in Wisconsin and is pretty good at English). I liked 'em. Maybe you will.
There was a lot of in-class writing in IJ600. Pretty much every day. I never really practiced writing before but it wouldn't hurt to go over a few. It's actually easier in some ways to just write hiragana for a word you're not sure about (they'll take of points if the kanji is wrong or illegible but they wont if its in hiragana). Basically, if you want to practice, you can. But it won't make a huge difference. You'll learn what you need to for kanji tests and that's about it.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 13:28
>>477
You just made me happier than you can imagine, it's been bugging me for months now that it is inappropriate for me, as a male, to use わ instead of よ. I feel so much better saying わ. After a semester in Nagoya, I can just say that I was living in Nagoya and thus developed a thing for わ.
Yeah, since we get a lot of japanese exchange students here, I've had speaking as my forté in Japanese. We used to go out for dinner once a week actually(while only speaking Japanese, even at the time when I had only studied the language for 1 month), and they were the ones who motivated me to give Japanese the effort it requires(if one is to learn it within a plausible timeframe).
I think I'm getting the info at a later date then. I am to send them a medical examination signed by a physician and my arrival information by the end of the month, then I assume I'm getting a reply with more info. I feel much better just knowing that such a thing as a grammar/kanji list exists.
By the way, I chose to live in dorms, and did so to save the train-time and to get some freedom on when/what to eat/sleep.
Do you have any idea how they place students in dorms? I read about there being private dorms that are quite a distance from campus, and that is my number one worry. If I have to spend 2+ hours on a train every day, I'll feel like I wasted a whole 10% of my trip.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 13:58
>>478
It is possible to use わ as a dialect (Nagoya and surrounding areas) but you really have to watch the intonation. An upward intonation at the end is female. Saying it plainly, without any intonation is male. If you're getting excited, its easy to use an upward intonation and end up sounding like a complete homosexual (albeit a Japaneses one).
Yeah, if you're still doing medical stuff, you'll get it in a few weeks if there are no problems. What school are you at now, by the way? We might know some of the same people.
As to the dorm situation, from what I understood, if you're a normal, fairly well-adjusted, eloquent individual (or at least sounded that way in your application), you should be placed at ACT house or Nagoya Koryuu Kaikan. Everyone in the Yamazato and Rainbow House dorms seemed like they had Aspergers or some social problems. Not to say there weren't "normal" people there, or people at NKK were all very social and well-adjusted, but it seemed like that was the general rule. NKK is literally 2 minutes from the main gate (I woke up 5 minutes before class everyday [shit was so cash]). Yamazato is about 10 minutes away and down a bunch of hills that suck to climb up. Both are fairly accessible to surrounding areas (15 minute walk to Yagoto, 10 minute walk to Yagoto Nisseki, 15 minute walk to Irinaka, 20 minute walk to Motoyama). ACT house is about 30 minutes away by train. I knew three guys that lived there and it was alright for them. I still have no idea where Rainbow House is; I made a point of not talking to the people from there. People from homestays had to travel almost 2 hours to get to school everyday. I also heard a lot of horror stories with families from around the area. You made a good choice to live in the dorms, especially if you get NKK.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 14:23
Well shit, maybe I should lay off the わ then. Also, I'm so happy I went all normalfag and full I-love-everything-japanese-related-so-much on their application form. Should boost my chances for 2 minutes from the main gate.
I'm(was) at Stockholm University, Sweden. The seniors I know who were in Nanzan last year are two Swedish girls named Tuva and Rebecca. Rebecca went 600 and Tuva 400, both lived in NKK I believe, and both left in December.
Let me ask about my minor worries while you're here. You seem to have paid 10 times the attention any of my seniors did.
In the pre-departure information I got, it says that it is preferable to arrive September 3rd or 4th. Registration is September 6th. I wanted to arrive a wee bit earlier at the 1st or 31st, would that become a huge bother for the ones who'll be picking me up? Or do they run several times on those days anyway? Is it an advantage to arrive earlier than suggested? I wanted some time to settle down and look around Nagoya before school started, but that might not matter if everyone gets tours later on.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 15:48
>>480
Dude. Axel, Rebecca's boyfriend, was my roommate. I pretty much knew her.
I arrived the first and its no bother at all. Just make sure they (CJS) knows it. They coordinate these things with the dorm and someone will be there (hopefully). And yes, they run multiple trips but obviously try to overlap to save time where they can. The only real advantage to arriving early is time to adjust, get to know your surroundings, roommates, etc. But it you want to just dive in, you can get there on the 4th (though it might be a bit overwhelming at first). Oh, and tours are not mandatory at all. And I don't particularly recommend them. Find an afternoon to walk around. Take the train somewhere and just walk. You'll find much more interesting stuff then a bus ride.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 17:04
Oh yeah, I did meet Axel. Didn't know he also went to Nanzan though. Well that's an amazing coincidence right there. Meeting a senpai on 4chan.
That's good to know. Then I'll plan for arrival the 1st.
I had more questions but none come to mind right now. I'll most definitely be back with more questions regarding the language though. Thanks for all the help.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 17:11
I find it hard to tell when a particle is used (wa ni ka ect)
Some times I think its part of a word, not a particle
Because fucking wall of text, cereal japan,
Any pointers for sentance structure?
Why so troll no spaces ?
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Anonymous2012-06-09 17:18
>>482
No problem. I'll be around if you ever have any other questions. Later, man.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 20:53
So someone tells a joke, the joker gets stopped mid-sentence and the jokeé says(might've heard wrong): あまりにもべかすぎるので、とつさに止めてしまった。 The translation is "I instinctively stopped you since it was so lame".
Since the tranlation seems pretty idiomatic, I wanted to confirm the original meaning.
So, あまりにもべかすぎるので. From the context and translation, I want to say that it's related to the -べく or -べからず grammar. My guess would be something like "Even if only slighty, you're trying too hard(to make it funny)"
As for とつさに止めてしまった, I'm really just grasping thin air. とつさに just sounds something related to 突然 so I might've guessed "I suddenly(without thinking about my own actions) stopped you.
Bottom line, I need help. I would've been totally stumped had there not been a translation.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 21:11
>>485
Sure you're not mishearing anything? 下手すぎる fits here.
とつさに is not a word. It's probably 突然.
I can't be sure without hearing the original but it sounds like you're just way off base here.
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Anonymous2012-06-09 21:49
I figured it out, it was あまりにもべたすぎるので、とっさに止めてしまった。
Problem came off two words I didn't know, べたべた(god, I hate onomatopoeia) and とっさに。
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Anonymous2012-06-10 7:21
Can someone translate this sentence to Japanese?
"I am happy(that) you liked Tokyo."
Wanted to ask about getting Japanese friends at Nanzan(still just a minor worry), how open are the Japanese students to making overseas friends? Not just the Japanese guys living in the dorm, but students not actually related to the foreign exchange programs at all. Does the organization make any effort at all to promote Japanese-foreign relations? Like language café or stuff.
While I very much intend to befriend and treasure my fellow exchange students, I am mainly looking for Japanese people to hang out with.
Am I allowed to join any of the resident circles/clubs by the way?
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Anonymous2012-06-10 18:38
>>490
He did say べた here but it doesn't come from べたべた. べた has a normal meaning of something solid or plain, but it has the slang meaning of trite, overdone, or cliched. "Lame" is a pretty liberal translation.
The friend issue: normal Nanzan students who aren't interested in English or foreign stuff stay FAR away from exchange students; they have no real reason to talk to you, even if you speak Japanese. It's a superficial, slightly racist thing, but its the reality. Japan is all about in-groups and getting with people who are similar in someway; foreigners don't fit in. Anyone who comes up to you and wants to "exchange" with you is either trying to use you to practice English, wants to date you, or some other superficial reason (any case is not a good one - run). '
The people in the dorms go through scans and interviews, so they're usually well-rounded people who just want to experience an "international" scene and not all of them are studying English. Your roommate will probably be a cool guy to hang out with. There's also an area known as Japan Plaza where Japanese students go to practice speaking foreign languages with each other in the R building of campus. If you apply early in the semester, you can get in but you're not allowed to speak Japanese (because you would be making it easy on them). CJS does do things to promote mingling, like coffee hours and stuff. But the only people who attend them are again people who are only interest in frivolous talk with white people. If you're fine with that (I wasn't) and just want to practice Japanese (which you can realistically do anywhere), you might want to check those events out.
Circles are probably to best way to interact with real Nanzan students. Clubs that are open to foreigners are limited but they have real Japanese people who don't know English and don't give a fuck in them. Next to getting a boyfriend/girlfriend, its the most surefire way to have meaningful exchange in the language.
Yeah, I kinda suspected it might be like that. I'll just have to cross that somehow. I suppose if I can get my Japanese to a level where it no longer is apparent that I'm in the middle of learning, I could meet some "real" Japanese people either through the ones who are open to foreigners or clubmates. Either way, it'll be an interesting challenge I suppose. I kind of have a knack for social relations with all kinds of people(and I am always the instigator of these) but I can't say I've tried in any other country.
I reckon the dorm's gonna be chill as fuck. I can already imagine chilling with bro's during slow evenings assuming I get into NKK.
Here in Sweden, I'm taking every conversation in Japanese as a fucking blessing regardless of motives or agendas. I guess I can stop doing that when I'm actually in Japan. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna try to be as little an "exchange student" as possible. I look forward to chatting with some old lady tending a candy shop in a suburb.
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Anonymous2012-06-10 19:22
>>494
If you're honest and open, people will return that. They might not put out enough to the extent you can call them a "friend" but you'll have no problem making acquaintances.
Yeah, I've had some real conversations in little flowershops and fitness centers and stuff. It was refreshing.
And yeah, I suggest you pick and choose your conversations and experiences. You'll have a lot to choose from and you'll have a better experience if you do what you want to.
That sounds exactly like Kansai Gaidai near Osaka. Crowds of Gaijin Hunter women just hanging around the student lounge looking for foreigners to fuck. I couldn't stand them, the only thing worse than them were the people who actually talked to them.
My best experiences came through the speaking partner exchange program. You basically get paired up with a buddy. My speaking partner was a very shy girl who didn't seem to care very much, and that ended badly, but my other friend got a really cool partner who introduced me to her friends as well, and I hung out with them for most of my stay. Excellent experiences. I think a lot of it is luck and patience.
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Anonymous2012-06-10 20:30
>>496
Wasn't paying attention to the particle, my bad.
It's a specialized reading that you only encounter in certain words. 言葉, 独り言, 戯言, etc. I know you didn't ask for an opinion, but it's probably better to just learn vocab rather than stress about memorizing a bunch of readings.
,. - ─── - 、
／ , ｀ヽ.
/〃//,. ,ｨl/|l ﾄ､ !、 、 ヽ
ｰ'´| | l |1 | !l. ｌ| ! | l.|ヽ ! !､ ', おじちゃんたち
YﾚV!ﾋｴ「! |l.「_ト!Ll」| ｌ ｌ l どうしてはたらかないの？
! lﾊｲJ | ´|_jヽ. ﾘ,! ! l. ｌ |
|l |l.} ー , Ｌ _,ﾊl.ｌトｌ ｌ. | l
|l ｉｌﾄ､ ｎ '' ,1ｌ|ｨ| |l l |
_ 二,ニ^tュ--ｪ_t１」l.|l !リ|_lﾉ
ｒ７´ ｆ ｒ┐| 〔/ミヽ>,-､￣´
Y ー个‐'t ﾊ-､_'ゝ、
ヽ ．＿･ ｒく￣ヽト-'丿 ヽ l
/ (･_＿,）ゝi┬'´ﾊ｀ '`|
|ヽ, ｲ ﾉ┴くヽヽ、 /
`´ ゝ┬ﾍ｀ヽ | `ー‐１
ゝﾉ-‐^ｰ'一''丶 ヽ ヽ
ﾄ､＿ `ｰｧ'¨不ヽ
| | 「￣「￣l￣ト､,ｲﾄﾋi′
ｌ l. l l ! !└' l |
└ L 」＿,|＿_ｌ＿l.__Ｌ.ｌ′
| | | |
ｌ l ! !
ｌ l. l l
ト--┤ !--‐1
ｆ‐t央j. ﾄ央ｧﾍ
| 甘l､ / 甘 |
ｌ ,.-‐ヽ ﾚ'⌒ヽ/
`く._＿ ﾉ ゝ--‐′
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Anonymous2012-06-11 17:20
How do I say "As long as your grades are good enough, you can do anything"?
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Anonymous2012-06-11 17:21
"成績が十分である限り、何もできる" Is what I've got
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Anonymous2012-06-11 18:38
成績が十分である限り would probably be interpreted as "as long as your grades are enough (in quantity, but not necessarily quality)". It's a little ambiguous.
何も is only used with negative verbs. 何でも is the correct word.
良い成績を取る限り、何でも出来る
良い成績がある限り、何でも出来る
etc.
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Anonymous2012-06-11 19:18
Thanks, I kinda felt that 十分 would give off a feeling of quantity but didn't what to use instead. As for 何も, I seriously can't believe I made that miss.
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Anonymous2012-06-12 12:25
About なぜ, なんで and どうして. I've up until now been using these interchangeably, but I felt I should start making a distinction. Do you have any tips for when to prefer one over the others?
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Anonymous2012-06-12 18:57
>>506
なぜ has rough, male, classic, written, and intellectual feeling. A little simpler, a little more blunt.
なんで is commonly used by both males and females in speaking. It can be written but its usually the go to speaking "why".
どうして is the standard, everyday, "why" but, in spoken language, it has a slightly more feminine tone.
Also heard that the main difference between なんでとどうして is the fact that なんで kind of works like "か" or "の" and seeks answer or affirmation. So なんで would be used for more "logical" or "simple" questions (ie. 何でお前が今帰る？）On the opposite end, ”どうして” is used for rhetorical questions or "unanswerable questions," questions one asks without seeking real answer, this is why a lot of Japanese love songs have どうして instead of なんで in their names (IE.どうして君を好きになってしまったんだろう？)
>>513 >>514 >>515
That's still pretty much なら used as a condition particle. I'm talking about instances where なら is used like this: 家に来るなら、。。。, which in some contexts makes more sense as "when (I) come at home,..." than "if (I) come back home". Is it uncommon to use なら in the same way as と like this?
I've been thinking a lot about computer terms these days, and have had a hard time finding Japanese translations.
Could you translate these for me(all computer-related):
To execute(run) a program
To open a folder
Left-click and click properties
To create a shortcut
A bookmark
Internet history
Open in a new tab
To execute(run)a program プログラムを実行する
To open a Folder フォルダを開く
Left-click and click properties 左クリックしてからプロパティをクリック（プロパティを選択）
A bookmark ブックマーク
Open in a new tab 新しいタブで開く 新規タブで開く
Internet history インターネットの歴史??
Internet browser history ブラウザ履歴
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Anonymous2012-06-13 12:50
>>517
A lot of that seems to be web browser-related. You can just switch the language of your browser and see what's in place of what.
It's not very good to think of なら/たら/と/etc in terms of English "if"/"when". と can mean either.
家に来るなら sounds to me like "if (you are) going to come (to my house) " more than anything else. Do you have any more specific examples? なら is more like "if x is the case . . ."
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Anonymous2012-06-13 15:12
I'm having trouble with the following:
そつとしておこう。
context: girl sees scarcely clad rear of her neighbour hanging from window and says this.
よつばと chap 2, for those who know it.
thanks in advane
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Anonymous2012-06-13 16:20
>>520
I can't recall the original sentence but basically a woman narrated that when she arrived at her workplace, she saw somebody she didn't expect, and the なら particle was used. Coming to her workplace is a daily thing so I figure she must be saying "when", plus she didn't anticipate the event so she couldn't be saying "if I come to the office...".
Might there be any chance this is just a particular writer's habit and not a rarely-documented grammar?
>>523
yes, but translators tend to give not-so-true to the source translations sometimes.
And my goal is to learn Japanese so I wanted to understand what was literally said and...
you get the gist of it.
I'm tired.
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Anonymous2012-06-13 18:45
>>524
Can you post a pic of the raw page, somehow?
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Anonymous2012-06-13 18:45
>>521
そっとしておく means "to leave as it", "let it be", etc.
それにしておく equates to the same thing but it has a slightly different nuance. It equips the same ておく form though to show that something should should be put off until the future.
A slightly more accurate translation would be "Well, let's just leave it at that", "I'm not gonna ask any questions", etc. etc.
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Anonymous2012-06-13 18:54
>>512
No, that was roughly a 15 pages where you can search for なら read what comes up to see if it helps.
I wrote this a few months ago. Maybe it will help with conditionals.
---------------------
えば - what follows is always of natural consequence, a request, a thought, etc.
時間があれば、会議を参加するつもりだ
If there's time I plan on attending the meeting.
もっと詳しく説明してくれば、ありがたいと思います。
I'd appreciate it if you could explain in more detail.
勉強さえしすれば、いい点を取れることになる。
You'll get a good score if you just study
~たら purest conditional, may or may not happen, if or when
帰ったら、亡くした腕時計を探してみる
When I get back home, I'm going to try looking for the wristwatch I lost
学生全員が卒業式に早速行ってくれたら、問題なく始めるようになる。
If all the students could come to the graduation ceremony without delay, we'll be able to begin without a hitch.
ドアを開けたら、雨が降っていたと気づいた。
When I opened the door, I noticed it had been raining.
と literary or fictional use, when this-then this, when this-what?, etc.
公園に入ると、見知らぬ男に殴られた
When I entered the park, I was struck by a man I had never seen before
雪が降ると、外でよく遊んだものだ。
I used to play outside often when it snowed.
なら probable the easiest: ONLY used for "if" "then" when you receive information, circumstances, opinions, etc. from OTHER people and create a thought BASED OFF of that information
そうと思うなら、はっきり言ってくれ
If you think so, just tell it to me straight
休暇を取れないなら、週末も働いてもらえないか？
If you're not able to take a vacation, can I get you to work this weekend to?
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Anonymous2012-06-13 19:23
>>527
Okay, so なら is the general marking of the hypothetical "trigger" phrases then? If it does not include trigger phrases that actually happened, then I have to conclude this is a writer's habit playing loose with grammar.
Japanese conditionals in general don't really pay much concern to whether something has actually happened or not (i.e., if vs when).
家に帰ったら、知らない人がいた。
When I got home, a stranger was there.
時間があったら、いつでも来てね。
Come by if you get the time.
なら can be used for hypotheticals just fine. Hypotheticals are, by definition, things that haven't happened. I'm not sure what the line you're trying to draw here is, but there's nothing odd about someone coming to a speaker's house and then the speaker says "家に来るなら・・・" for "if you're coming to my house (then at least bring a gift, or whatever)".
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Anonymous2012-06-13 21:53
>>529
Well, it's just that this writer was writing a woman narrating herself coming into her office with the なら particle (the line goes something like, "when I arrived at the office, I met an unexpected man"). That seems to stretch the usage range of なら a little bit. Of course I took the line for granted that なら is also used that way, but since that was the first time I saw なら used that way, had to make sure.
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Anonymous2012-06-13 21:55
>>528 >>529
The difference is: when you ask "If you're coming to my house...", there needs to have been some kind of information, some kind of thought or idea, something that allowed you to give the condition regarding that person coming. That's where nara comes into play. It's not like you're saying "if you come" as in you're just saying "just in case", its not really hypothetical. There's a level of expectancy. Though you're not always "excepting" per se. You can say "when" or whatever you want in English but understanding it in Japanese is more important. Some Japanese people don't even really know the difference.
家に来たら、
If you come (you might, you might not, but IF you do then...)
家に来るなら、
If you come (I have some reason to believe you might, so WHEN you do, IF YOU DO, then...)
They're similar but very different
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Anonymous2012-06-13 21:58
>>530
How about you post the sentence you're talking about? We can get to matters much more quickly.
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Anonymous2012-06-13 22:19
What is the word you use when you look through, say, an essay for typos and other faults. Like, "to correct" or "to make corrections".
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Anonymous2012-06-13 22:27
>>532
I wish I can, it was from a novel that I read at a friend's house on the weekend, I can't remember the exact quote but I do remember the particularly unusual usage of なら. I'm now 50km(ish) away from his house, finally had an Internet connection to ask this nagging question.
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Anonymous2012-06-13 22:42
>>534
All I'm saying is: there's likely some detail that's missing, some kind of context.
>>535
It's very straight up actually: 。。。へやって来たなら,。。。 Just that. I can't recall the whole sentence but preceding なら is just the verb. This is why I couldn't get this part out of my head.
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Anonymous2012-06-13 23:56
>>537
AGAIN, what I'm saying is, the important part of this sentence isn't nara being after a verb. IT ALWAYS IS. The rest of the sentence, verbatim, is what will make this easier.
For the Nanzan dude, you got any idea how lenient they are on those medial papers? My local health care centre is slow as fuck with the tests and I might have to retake the urinalysis since I got a very small amount of blood in there(probably a false positive).
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Anonymous2012-06-15 9:37
>>544
They say they're strict on the deadlines but I'm sure if you send your overseas study advisor/representative or someone at Nanzan (whoever you're sending your forms to) an e-mail about your situation, they might give you a break. At the end of the day, they want your money. If they have to wait a few more days to get it, they will.
I turned everything on time before I got there, but whenever I had to turn something into the CJS office while in Japan, it was pretty much always late and they didn't throw a fit.
Hope you don't start pissing blood and everything works out.
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Anonymous2012-06-15 9:58
>>545
Yeah, I'm gonna be so mad if my trip get's cancelled because of that urinalysis. Goddamn, I haven't even had a common cold in almost 2 years and there are definitely no symptoms that would indicate that I'm in any way sick.
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Anonymous2012-06-15 10:20
Is そんな ever contracted to んな, or is it a contraction of something else？(Taken from んなこと言ってねーよ, it's heavily slanged as you can see, so I speculated so)
How close am i with this? or does it at least convey my point or sound polite?
I would like to say [video game context]
’’please could you make it so you[the character] can use items while moving [walking, running] thank you''
お願いだから アイテム わ 利用 と 歩く も 走る 本と 興味深い 有難う
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Anonymous2012-06-16 15:25
If anyone can help, I'm looking for a translation of this. They're washing instructions. I don't need the bottom translated, just -what to do- with it.
You made the same thread on /jp/ and it got deleted before I typed my reply, so here you go.
Preliminary info: the actual washing instruction for that dakimakura cover (I assume) are the signs, the text is just your standard "don't be retarded" babble.
- If your product comes with beltanzipper close them before washing, what do you think they're fucking there for? Also don't just throw this shit wherever without drying it properly first, goddamn.
- We did our best to retard proof the material, but if you cut it with a fucking knife it'll still probably not stay in one piece, this shouldn't be rocket science.
- We keep telling those fucking Chinese kids to cut the goddamn material in equal sizes, but it's a bit stretchy and lately child protective services have been fucking annoying so the size of 2 materials, even from the same line of production, might not be exactly the same.
Name of product: パールロイカ, if you can't even read katakana, gtfo of /jp/
So do you listen to music while doing your daily Japanese studies? Do you find it affects your ability to learn and recall? Negatively? Maybe even positvely if you listen to music with vocals in Japanese?
My study consists mainly of reading and doing Anki. I can't read while listening to music in any language (at least, not effectively) and Anki is pretty foolproof. I don't recommend it but it's going to depend on what you're doing, obviously. "Study" includes many, many things.
When the fall semester ends(December 19 this year), how much time do I have before I'm forced to leave the dorms? Trying to book tickets and would like to, if possible, stay until January second or at least after Christmas.
Do you know about Nagoya-Tokyo buss and train fares? I know it's pretty simple if I take the Shinkansen but I also hear it's almost 10k yen. Got any idea how the busses work? Prices, travel times and intervals? Flying to the central international airport is a pain and it's so much easier to just fly to Tokyo.
How cold does it get during winter? I know the temperature rarely get's colder than 0/32 degrees(Celsius/Farenheit) but I hear the temperature is deceiving because of the humidity. Do I need to bring my Swedish winterjackets?
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Anonymous2012-06-18 20:17
>>574
You have until the end of the month, the 31st. CJS can accommodate your stay past the end of December but they really hate doing it and it will be a hassle. New people are coming in spring and if you're leaving after the fall, they want you out. If you choose to stay past, they might make you pay another month of rent, so just be aware.
Yeah, a shinkansen from Nagoya to Tokyo is approaching 10k, if not slightly under. You get there in two hours though, which is great if you're doing a day trip (which I did a few times with my girlfriend). Buses leave from Nagoya station (just like the shinkansen) and usually cost about 4000-5000 yen to Tokyo. It's really slow thought and can be pretty dangerous depending on traffic/time of year etc.
Yes, it gets pretty damn cold. I don't remember numbers but it got cold enough to the extent I would get pissed at how cold it was. The winds are especially cold going into February. I would bring at least one big jacket or buy one there.
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Anonymous2012-06-18 20:55
>>574
Not the guy you're asking but just thought I'd chime in my opinion on Japanese busses. I went from Osaka>Tokyo then Tokyo>hachinohe (then a ferry to Hokkaido). I took a JR bus from Osaka>Tokyo and Willer (http://travel.willer.co.jp/) from Tokyo>Hachinohe. This trip happened in January.
The bus from Osaka to Tokyo left at 10 Am and got there around 6 pm, as I recall. It was basically an all day trip. It cost me around 5500 yen, I think, but I bought it the day of (actually, I missed the bus I was supposed to take . . . long story) so I figure that's a pretty decent price. The ride was quite pleasant, and it was kind of cool seeing some of the rest stops along the way (they're massive affairs, with gift shops, restaurants, etc). I'd definitely do this again, though it would be nice if it were a bit cheaper.
The ride from Tokyo was a night bus, so that was very different. This bus was much smaller (the first was a double decker) and there weren't many stops, as you were expected to sleep, which I did. All I can say about Willer is, you had better learn where your actual stop is. They are cheap, but they tend to have different hubs from JR and some of the other bus lines. Kind of neutral on this one, at least it only cost me 4k (student discount of around 500 I think).
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Anonymous2012-06-18 21:14
What are some good resources for learning intermediate/advanced grammar? My current grammar knowledge consists of Tae Kim's guide and a few more things I picked up from reading. What resources could I use to get to at least a JLPT1 level from here?
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Anonymous2012-06-19 1:48
>>577
There are sites out there that provide study guides for JLPT1 grammar, if you intend to use that as a benchmark. From what I've heard though, there's a good deal of 書記言語 and not so much things you'll see/use on a daily basis.
Also, if you haven't already, take a look at the "A Dictionary of * Japanese Grammar" (Basic/Intermediate/Advanced)
Are you just trolling? If you want to talk in terms of themes or meaning, that might be arguable, but for a learner casual speech or slang can be just as difficult to comprehend/reproduce as classic literature.
From Spice and Wolf vol 9:
ただ、商品の良し悪しを選別して利益を上げる商人からすれば、そんな補修はきっと神様に祈るのと同じくらいの効果しか持たないだろうと思えた。
Now, I'm not saying this is a particularly difficult sentence, but I just opened a page and pulled something off. A sentence like this with multiple subordinate phrases will be plenty challenging to a new learner. Would you also say Harry Potter isn't worth reading? Because I'd rate it about the same difficulty as say, Kizumonogatari, having read both in Japanese.
You could also make it part of a larger phrase, like カタカナはわかりませんけど、ひらがなならわかります(like the in the genki example)
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Anonymous2012-06-20 11:42
>>583
In terms of just about everything aside from wanting to read something that has some minor association with anime or manga etc, novels are better idea. And its not like novels don't have "slang" or "casual speech", that's part of what a novel IS. Reading something from Dazai or Murakami or even Koubou (all of which can be handled with intermediate/intermediate-advanced Japanese and a dictionary), for example, you'll run into "real" casual speech. Light novels are by nature shorter, more compact, less thematic, and fit under a ceiling of content and difficulty. They're basically movie books. One light novel will read pretty much the same as another (obviously there are differences and unique examples but similarities are far more common). Opening yourself up to different works of literature, even at a beginner level (which are certainly available), is a more challenging, more rewarding experience. Obviously, if you just want to read LNs because LNs have an association with anime and you want to unite those different interests, go ahead. And obviously, any reading is good reading. But if you want to learn Japanese, you shouldn't limit yourself to LNs as the next natural step in reading comprehension.
I can agree with that, but it sounds to me like your entire image of "light novel" is Infinite Stratos and Oreimo. Maybe I'm wrong. Variety and exposure to a lot of things is important in language learning, in any case.
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Anonymous2012-06-20 11:55
>>583
Not the same guy but you get a lot of exposure to kanji in modern novels too. It can be difficult to go through but once you start to catch on to meanings and stuff your compensation and kanji will get a major boost.
Wait, when you say "modern novels" are you referring to young adult stuff (LNs) or more "serious" works? Either way, in my experience learning kanji will come no matter what you read as long as they're not explicitly children's books. Even most RPGs past the SNES era make heavy use of kanji.
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Anonymous2012-06-20 14:03
>>581
Rikaichan won't help you read novels because it's a browser plug-in that only works on plain text. Exception: Finding 青空文庫 TXT editions of what you want to read, but >99% of light novels raws are in jpeg format. Of course, if you actually plan on buying physical copies, rikaichan won't do you much good there either. Exception 2: Theoretically, you could OCR the scans, but few OCR programs (if any) can handle vertical text orientation, much less sort out the ruby text.
I dived directly into light novels after realizing that most "intro to japanese grammar" textbooks suck shit. I could get maybe 70-80% of what's going on just by breaking down the sentences and writing down words I didn't know. Anything I couldn't look up, I asked other people (forums/irc), searched Google (figure out by context), or just kept going (it's okay to not know 100.0% of every word you see).
tldr you learn more when outside your comfort zone etc so just go for it.
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Anonymous2012-06-20 14:07
>>591
Very strongly agree with this. A lot of people seem to think the textbook ladder just keeps going up into infinity. That's just not the way language learning works. You won't gain any real proficiency until you start working things out directly.
So is that to say I shouldn't bother with doing the dictionary for X grammar books at all after finishing Genki? Or am I missing your point?
I definitely want to jump straight into more difficult stuff, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm missing out on something by not getting most of the sentences.
As for the guy who seems to have something against LNs, I don't plan on just reading LNs, but in all honesty, that's the biggest goal I have for learning Japanese; it's probably lame as Hell, but it's keeping me going, so I can't complain.
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Anonymous2012-06-20 15:48
>>593
Yes, don't bother "doing" them, in the sense that you shouldn't try to memorize everything inside (because you will probably forget them anyway unless you see them "in action" in-text). Dictionaries are simply reference tools to look up specific things. That said, if you want to read them from cover to cover, there's no harm in doing so either.
The great thing about books is that you can read them multiple times. That sounds kind of silly, but hey, I try to re-read everything at least once because I always find myself noticing details that I neglected for whatever reason the first time around.
Oh, and this post is written by someone who was also motivated to learn Japanese because of light novels. Still a long way to go before I can read without putting up a bit of a fight, but I'm getting there.
Alright, thanks, that's definitely changed how I plan on doing it. Have you found any tips on actually looking up grammar points? It seems rather abstract at the moment, and the best thing I can come up with is simply googling the part of the sentence I don't know, and hoping I find more of the same with English translations, but I doubt that will get me particularly far.
But how are they used? Is it just like I had anticipated: typing in the part I didn't understand, and abstracting from the English translations? Thanks either way.
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Anonymous2012-06-21 1:38
>>597
Dictionaries aren't going to learn grammar for you. Type in what you don't know, read weblio to see the Japanese explanation, jisho to find its meaning, and ALC to see examples with English translations. That's what I do anyway.
Does anyone know some good textbooks/learning materials to get to s JLPT1 level, from a JLPT2 level?
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Anonymous2012-06-21 10:57
If I could understand visual novels, would that prepare me for life in Japan? I ask because it's incredibly easy to look up text in such a format, what with text hookers and all. Though I suppose it might be the case that they avoid 'real-world Japanese'?
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Anonymous2012-06-21 14:23
>>601
I don't really understand your question. The words they use in VNs are real words. If you only read fantasy ones (like say, Eiyuu Senki) then you won't be able to ask shit like "Where is the nearest grocery store", even if you might know how to say "We must defeat the demon lord before the world is destroyed."
You should just read what you want. If you're actually planning on moving to Japan, you should try to be exposed to things set in Japan, obviously.
Yeah, I wasn't entirely sure if it was a sensible question; I'd just heard people here and there saying so-and-so doesn't use 'real Japanese'. Never really got what 'fake Japanese' would've looked like, but figured I'd clarify. Thanks anon.
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Anonymous2012-06-23 20:20
How would I say "I'm going out for a run(training)"?
走る kind of gives me the feeling of running with a goal in mind.
>>603
Most of that is in regards to the general rudeness of a lot of characters in anime/manga/etc. When people meet, they don't call each other お前 and speak in plain form unless they're yakuza or something. And even if they were, they'd probably still use polite form, just in case it happens to be their boss or something. Sometimes that sort of fiction breaks generally accepted rules of politeness. There's also the general fact that the way we speak (even in English) is not the same as the way we write, even when we're writing dialogue between characters.
Still anyone who says anime isn't "real Japanese" either has no idea what's going on and has been told that themselves, or else they're only considering certain anime.
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Anonymous2012-06-23 22:36
>>604
走ってくる、走ってきます suffices. I said that to my roommate every time I left in place of the traditional 行って来ます. 走る can have the connotation of having a specific goal but its used most commonly for the 'running for exercise' kind of running too. ランニングしてくる is acceptable too but using a katakana-word really has the feeling that you're trying to distinguish something...and honestly if you're a foreigner, it just kind of...fits (not necessarily in a natural way though).
>>37
In trends of the sounds attached? Not at all. Same sound born from different language contexts (to differentiate them when the same sound follows in a word our name, e.g. みすず&つづく)
How would you say "Please forgive me if I say anything wrong" ?
Is もし変なことを言ったら許して下さい acceptable ? I'm supposed to take an interview in English tomorrow but if I'm asked to speak a bit in Japanese, I'd like the jury to at least understand I'm aware of how poor my Japanese is.
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Anonymous2012-06-24 16:38
>>612
もし変なことを言ったら許して下さい is literally, "Please forgive me if I say anything strange". That's fine, but a mistake in Japanese (just like any language) could be "strange" or it could just be wrong from a grammatical or contextual sense. Saying this might make your audience think you're going to talk about how you like to stick a banana up your grandmother's ass. That's strange. Not necessarily "wrong".
(talking directly about your Japanese)
もし日本語を間違えたら、もし日本語を話すのに失敗したら、もし日本語が少し変に聞こえたら、
(talking about saying something strange, wrong, etc.)
もし違和感があることを言ったら、もし不自然なことを言ったら、
(varying levels of politeness [low to high])
許してください、お許しください、お許しくださいますようお願いします、お許しいただきたく、お願い申し上げます
>>613
Thanks, that's very helpful ! Since I barely know any keigo, I'll just stick with the lowest politeness level as the others would sound awkward followed by more regular sentences I think.
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Anonymous2012-06-24 22:48
I'm just about done with learning ~1000 kanji. I know their kunyomi+onyomi+meanings, but from here, I'm not sure where to go.... of course I know there are a little over 2000 main kanji, but I feel like it would be more productive for me to go ahead and first learn the jukugo for the kanji I've already learned before I move on.
So, what should I do? Power on through ~1000 more kanji or tread back and learn the first 1000's jukugo before I move on?
I think what this very helpful anon >>616 is getting at is that it doesn't matter so much where you go from here, as you should be working on learning the language however you feel like; you'll have to both everything eventually, so the order is of relative unimportance. As you've said "I feel it would be more productive...", you should go with that. I'm assuming you're asking because you want to learn in the most efficient way possible, but doing compounds, sentences, kanji, grammar, or whatever else in a particular order will only confer any 'efficiency' if you're enjoying yourself, so if you feel X route is more productive, go for that.
>>615
It might come as a shock to you but there's a lot more to Japanese than kanji, which is what >>616 was trying to hint at. Why are you studying Japanese? I'm going to take a stab here and guess that it's not because you love kanji. Do you know enough grammar to put your kanji knowledge to use? How's your reading/listening comprehension? Writing? Speaking?
I actually really enjoy studying kanji, but you would be correct in guessing that's not why I'm studying Japanese, haha. I mostly just want to be able to read without too much of a problem. Novels, old poetry (though that is obviously a very distant goal), things like that. Right now I have no plans--near or distant future--to visit/live in Japan, so I'm not as interested in the speaking/listening. My listening is okay though anyway. My grammar is pretty all right I think, though I'm much better at figuring out what the hell is going on grammar-wise when I'm reading than listening.
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Anonymous2012-06-26 8:49
私はその人にデートに誘われました
Ok, so Genki has that sentence in the section on passive sentences, talking about how you can use them to describe things that happened that displeased you, but uses that, along with three others, as examples of the same sentence structure that don't involve being displeased.
So I have two questions; firstly, why use them in that sentence structure if you're not expressing a dislike of the situation? I'm guessing that the clue is in the name, and that it's simply because it's a passive act; something that 'happened' to you, but would like to clarify; secondly, could it be interpreted as a bad thing? Say, you really don't like the person, but didn't want to upset them, or they were a mate's ex and it's awkward, etc., or would saying it this way always be taken as simply something that 'happened' in the neutral?
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Anonymous2012-06-26 9:48
>>620
First: Because Japanese has the suffering passive, but it has the normal passive too. Whether or not you suffered from a passive action depends on the content and context of the sentence. 誘われた is very normal to say, BUT, given the correct context could express suffering. That's why Japanese people usually avoid using it in reference to uchi or in places where it might be assumed to have a negative meaning. Passive form isn't just suffering passive. For example, its also respectful (どこに行かれますか？）when speaking to a social superior about their actions.
>That's why Japanese people usually avoid using it in reference to uchi or in places where it might be assumed to have a negative meaning.
Sorry, I didn't get that part. Could you elaborate? Thanks.
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Anonymous2012-06-26 10:36
>>622
Uchi would be their in-group. I or we. So they try to avoid the passive in some situations where it might be imply that something "was done" to them and that affected them negatively.
Do you mean they wouldn't use that form concerning someone in their group, or to their group?
As in, would they use that form when speaking in their group when it was about someone who wasn't part of their group?
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Anonymous2012-06-26 12:50
With "私は病気の友達に元気になってほしです", does the 病気の友達 imply that the friend has a long-term sickness, or can it be used to say someone has, say, a cold? The translation uses 'sick friend', but that comes across to me as the kind of person who'd been in hospital for quite a while.
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Anonymous2012-06-26 13:36
>>625
Could be either. But its probably not a terminal disease.
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Anonymous2012-06-27 9:38
Watashi Faggoto
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Anonymous2012-06-27 10:16
>>624
In. But its not like they avoid it like the plague, they're just conscious of its usage. That's all.
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Anonymous2012-06-27 11:53
How long did it take you to become somewhat fluent (conversationally - you could actually live in Japan with this level of Japanese)?
It's been 6 months and I feel like it's going to take me a long long time before I become comfortable with my level of comprehension and expression.
You can actually live in Japan with very basic Japanese.I have friends who've lived in Japan either during highschool or been married to a Japanese and I was definitely at their level or better in speaking and listening after about 8 months of studies(although very intensively, about twice the university speed). They've never cared much for kanji's though, being the normalfags they are.
You can make yourself understood with very limited grammar and vocabulary. You just need to get used to speaking.
I'd say one year of normal university courses(using that as the only point of reference) to comfortably have small chats. About two years to be able to at least fool people into thinking you're fluent.
Even after just 6 months, try having conversations in japanese as often as possible, you'll get used to it quickly and find that it really is a lot, lot easier than you thought.
And how much is the 'university speed'? When I did physics I must've been doing about 4 - 6 hours a day - surely you're not saying I should be doing 8 - 12 hours a day?
Not at all that much. University speed is still very casual. I'd say that if you can study without interruption and fully concentrated, it'd average out at like 2-3 hours a day. If you really can study 6 hours a day with full concentration, you're awesome.
Haha, I doubt I'd manage it with Japanese; I only got so far with physics/maths because towards the end I'd get stuck on a problem and end up stubbornly trying to figure it out. Anyway, thanks, 2/3 hours seems a perfectly reasonable amount of time.
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My God, have pity on my soul; my God, have pity on this poor people.
William the Silent,1584
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Anonymous2012-06-28 23:52
Could somebody please help me with this? I'm translating something for /h/, but this one section just makes no fucking sense to me at all. Especially the > parts. Thank you.
>>636
あんな that kind of (i.e. "that" i.e. "sex"
でも or things like that, something, anything etc.
一応 tentatively, for the time being, tentative
夫婦 (married) couple
なの feminine ending
With absolutely no context given:
-I mean, you knock boots too, right?
-I only do that kind of stuff as a couple/in a relationship/that kind of stuff should really be between couples/etc.
-Sorry
-I have a better idea!/How about this!/etc.
-I'll let you do even more!
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Anonymous2012-06-29 0:29
So I can read Hiragana and Katakana. I can't translate things though. I'm at a very early stage. Problem is, I sorta need the skills at this very moment. I asked /r/, but there doesn't seem to be anyone who can speak the language. It's not anything important or emotional (to most people anyway), but it's kinda important to me, personally. It's actually about Pokémon, and I wanted to send a message to one of the higher ups via image on Twitter. Would it be okay to ask here, even if this is a learning thread?
>>639
Well, it's like a page or 2 long. So if someone's up to the task, I would be pretty darn grateful. The best way I could describe it would be with >>>/r/10098918 and >>>/vp/9586480 (I hope crosslinking to boards works here). Read the entire second thread if you want to get the full idea.
I'm really confused what you're asking for here. Are you asking us to translate pokemon or just to write a message saying you want to translate pokemon this way?
The issue seems pointless to me. I've played through both black and white in Japanese, and I'm not seeing what your issue is. Who cares if they changed shell blade to razor shell? "foul play" is as good a translation for イカサマ as anything. (this is just me looking at random posts in that /vp/ thread).
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Anonymous2012-06-29 5:06
>>642
So this prompted me to start looking into these issues specifically. And for what it's worth, there aren't any double entendres on the ferris wheel that I can see at all. I wasn't able to find an official translation, but the Japanese all seems fairly straightforward. Holding hands does not count as a double entendre. Cuddling to stay warm is also not a double entendre. Crying about a former lover is not a double entendre. I was not able to find one solid example. I would even hesitate to call them "innuendo", they're at the level of Saturday morning cartoon romance. I don't know what the translation did, but many people seem to act like there's some big cover up for a hidden dirty sex message or something.
Also, フラッシュ does not have anything to do with "flashing" in Japanese. That was not intended to be a dirty joke. That is probably why they changed it, so people would not think that's what it was. Maybe there were better ways than changing it to something unrelated, but considering that translating "literally" in this case would make a joke that didn't exist before, I can understand the change.
Basically your gripe comes down to random names they changed. I don't see how this warrants a retranslation at all. I'm sorry they used synonyms for move names that you didn't like.
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Anonymous2012-06-29 9:09
What is the normal word used for "common"? I can many times work around it and use something like "普通なら" but some sentences just doens't work(stir).
Like:
Bowing when expressing gratitude is much more common overseas.
Vending machines may be more common than I had thought.
>>643
You'll need some context for the "former lover" thing. You can go on "dates" on the Ferris Wheel. If you chose the male character in BW, you'd get different Ferris Wheel dates than if you chose the female. What makes this notable is that if you go during the summer, instead of a girl being there, it's a big Hiker named Natsumi (the same guy you're talking about). He doesn't appear for the girl. Anyway, while you're on the Ferris Wheel, he makes small talk. I think it's something like "Ho ho... sure is humid, like a sauna, boy, I tell you what! You're really sweatin', boy... By the way... boy... you ever had a lover?". When you go back, his dialogue changes, and he asks if you want to "make a summer memory together" or something. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/989552-pokemon-black-version/58094326/644184618 http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/989552-pokemon-black-version/58094326/644184618 http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E3%83%8A%E3%83%84%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF
When you play B2W2, you meet him at the Ferris Wheel again, but only if you're a girl. He remarks that you're not his type, and then goes on about the person he fell in love with on the Ferris Wheel two years ago during the summer. This is obviously the male character from BW. He then says something like "For a girl, you're a pretty good friend".
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Anonymous2012-06-29 10:23
>>644
Or, depending on what you're saying, により多い. Although
癌が高齢者より若年者により多い
Cancer is more common in the young than it is in the elderly
ストレスを経験することは女性に多い
The experience of stress is more common in women
Both of the following can be translated as "Bowing when expressing gratitude is much more common overseas."
"Vending machines may be more common than I had thought.":
自動販売機は(私が)思ったより一般的かもしれない。
自動販売機は思ったより多いかもしれない
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Anonymous2012-06-29 10:26
And then there are all the Nugget jokes throughout the series. In the Japanese version, Nuggets are called きんのたま (Golden Balls), which is apparently slang for testicles. There are often situations in the game where you find someone in a secluded area, and he'll offer you a Golden Ball, and then add that since he has two, he'll give you another. There's even a guy who calls himself Uncle Golden Balls who hides behind a tree.
In B2W2, if you choose the male and go to the Ferris Wheel during the summer, there's this woman. When you go on it with her, she comments on the heat, and how it's making her shirt sweaty and stick to her skin. She comments on you looking at her chest, then suggests you both take your shirts off. She ends the line with "After all, we're both guys, right?". You were led to believe that it was an attractive woman. Here's the sprite, just to show you. http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/2/20/Spr_BW_Nursery_Aide.png
Every single one you ever meet is female, except for this guy. While not every Ferris Wheel date is full of innuendo and double entendres, several are.
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Anonymous2012-06-29 10:29
>>648
...who cares? What does this have to do with Japanese?
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Anonymous2012-06-29 10:46
>>648
And I'm not trying to say that Pokémon is hardcore, or mature, or deep, or anything like that. I'm just saying that a lot of the little things in the game done for older players (innuendo, older player characters, Kanji support, etc.) are ignored by the new localization company TPCi. Although I do understand that last one couldn't have really translated over. TPCi removed the Game Corners in HGSS because they thought the gambling aspect should be removed in all localized versions, despite being a staple of the series. Game Freak decided not to add a Game Corner in BW or B2W2 because they knew it would just get removed everywhere except for Japan. They changed any situation that could be interpreted as "inappropriate". For example, changing the comment a girl makes about you possibly looking at her legs, or changing an old man's dialogue from "There sure are a lot of pretty women here!" to "There sure are a lot of strong Trainers here!". They removed every instance of the word "war" from Lt. Surge, despite the fact that he's a soldier. "He went into battle", which can easily be misinterpreted in Pokémon. They changed the name Green back to Blue, even after it had started to become the standard. Now we have huge arguments over which name is appropriate, because 2 characters share it. And then there's... the "stiltedness" of it all. If you compare Lt. Surge's GSC dialogue with his HGSS dialogue, you'll notice a weird change in tone. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lt._Surge#Quotes
TPCi is a crappy localization company. Pokémon is a game for all ages, not just children, yet they ignore the older fanbase. If it weren't for Game Freak and TPC, there probably wouldn't be age divisions for older players in the tournaments. Game Freak tries, but it just doesn't translate over often.
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Anonymous2012-06-29 10:56
>>649
Well, I was asking earlier if someone could translate a message for me, so I could send it to Junichi Masuda, one of the higher-ups at Game Freak. He made a Twitter account for fan feedback. He can respond to English posts, but it takes him a bit longer, because he needs to translate them to Japanese, write his response, and then translate it to English. He even writes his own blog online, and translates (most) of the entries himself (it's a little Engrishy). http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir_english/
Anyway, what I want to send him is a little too long for him to translate. That's why I wanted to ask someone to translate the message. I would then save it on an image (with the English text beside it), and post the link to it on his Twitter.
They have two scripts for BW and B2W2. One is Kana, the other is Kanji. What I was thinking of was a "Localized" and an "Unlocalized" option. After all, a pure translation must be done before localization starts, right? It exists somewhere, and it's totally possible to use it. "Localized" is the default, like Kana was, and "Unlocalized" is the optional one. It was just an idea, but I'm tired of learning names that sound totally appropriate, and then having them changed several months later, and being called a weeaboo if I ever use them again. I might as well see if I can change it.
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Anonymous2012-06-29 13:28
>>643
>You'll need some context for the former lover thing
I was not talking about the hiker. I was talking about the older woman. Why do you assume I have no idea about the ferris wheel events? I looked them up.
>>648
Yes, and Japan also frequently makes jokes about balls in cartoons and so on. That isn't really appropriate here.
I still have no idea what they did with the ferris wheel events in English, but you're blowing this way out of proportion. The translation reads well and retains the story. They changed some names. They changed some dirty jokes that would not go over well (do you really think having an option to allow testicle jokes would fly with parents, even if it's marked "adult" or whatever?) and they scaled back some of the implications, I assume, I still don't know about that. Maybe you should mature a little bit before asking for these sorts of things.
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Anonymous2012-06-29 16:56
>>652
I haven't seen the one about the older woman. So far, I've seen the ones with the return Natsumi and the trap.
I know that testicle jokes would not fly over here. It's not like it would matter anyway, because "Golden Ball" is a term that only really works in Japanese, and they changed it to "Nugget" here years ago.
The Ferris Wheel was changed so there weren't really any double entendres or innuendos. Natsumi, who was renamed to Andy, had his dialogue changed to make him afraid of heights. I don't know why, because most innuendo and double entendres fly over a kid's head. They're there to make subtle references and jokes that you can't really talk about out loud with kids. It just added to the overall atmosphere of the game.
When I play Pokémon now, I can't help but wonder what dialogue may be altered. It's like, I want to play the game as it was originally intended, but I can't really read Japanese (minus the Kana, but I'll be working on that). If I were to know it, I would have to import all future games (which costs more) and buy a Japanese 3DS because of the region-locking. This could get expensive and time-consuming. If I pirate the game, I may be able to use more accurate fan translations, but I lose functionality with a lot of features. I knew nothing could be done about it in the first four Generations of games, but now they have the ability to do something with two scripts. I've been in the ROM. I've extracted every text file, and there are two folders with the exact same dialogue in each, except one uses Kanji while the other uses Kana. I just figured since his Twitter was open to feedback, I would ask about the whole possibility of the "Localized/Unlocalized" feature. I don't know if it would work, but nothing would happen if I didn't try. I want to be able to use the name Achroma online without being called a weeaboo. Why should I just switch for a company that doesn't seem to care about the older part of the fanbase? And I want you to know, in case this is brought up, that I would do the same thing if this wasn't Japanese. I believe that a game should try to remain as true to its original version as possible when translating. Anything less just feels like... censorship to me.
I understand if no one wants to translate the message for me. I didn't expect everyone to instantly agree with my viewpoint. And this is a thread for learning Japanese, not making translation requests, so it's my bad there. But if I have a chance, I'll go for it. I don't care how immature it makes me look.
>>656 http://pastebin.com/f25euJ4R
Achroma = アクロマ
Homika = ホミカ
Shizui = シズイ
Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 = ポケットモンスターブラック２・ホワイト２
Pokémon (standalone) = ポケモン
Isshu = イッシュ
Black and White = ブラック・ホワイト
Junichi Masuda = 増田 順一
The Pokémon Company International = The Pokémon Company International
TPCi = TPCi
Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji are written in their respective scripts, rather than all in Kanji.
Just ask me anything. I'll be back on tomorrow, but I've included my email address just in case. You can put any form of identification for yourself at the end of the message (if you're comfortable with that), because this would not be possible without you.
Is there anything else that you need to know?
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Anonymous2012-06-30 13:26
Just finished the third paragraph. I'll do the rest when I get back from work.
Moot has recently died of a heart attack, spread the word.
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Anonymous2012-07-01 12:33
>>659
I have those two little paragraphs at the end to do yet but I'm lazy.
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Anonymous2012-07-01 14:34
When you use し to give reasons for something, do you have to explicitly give more than one reason, or can you just give one reason, using し, thus implying there are more? Kind of like how you use や in place of と?
ブラックとホワイトから、大人っぽいキャラクターや漢字機能の導入で、貴社はより幅広い層へ顧客を広げようとしていると多くのファンは気づきました。ストーリーもより優先されるようになりました。残念なことに、これはアメリカ版の感じと少し違います。The Pokemon Company International(Tpci)は子供だけに集中しているような気がします。繊細な大人向けの冗談などが削除されると、もううんざりだと言う人もいます。
Hey guys, I'm having trouble with a sentence:
意思が通じなさそう、という点において。
「通じなさそう」- what's that conjugation? It looks like 通じる + なさい + そう, but I'm not sure if そう is allowed to latch on なさい like that (if that even makes sense)
「点において」- "on the point?" (I'm guessing it's some kind of set phrase with an omitted verb...?)
Context: Narrator is climbing up the suicide deterrence fence on a rooftop because she wants, well, kill herself. But then she notices a strange girl staring at her from the base of the fence. The full paragraph goes: ビクリと体を震わす私を見上げ、まばたきひとつしない少女は無表情のままに小首をかしげる。猫みたいだ。意思が通じなさそう、という点において。
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Anonymous2012-07-03 3:05
She's like a cat, in the sense that it doesn't seem (my) intentions will be understood.
That's the liberal translation. ない takes さ when using そう in the observation sense. ない＞なさ＞なさそう.
において "with respect to", "with regards to", "considering ~", etc.
I should also mention nothing is omitted, just inverted. it's the same as saying 意思が通じなさそう、という点において猫みたいだ except that it flows much more smoothly and doesn't sound as boring.
自分さえよければいいやという感覚が強いのです。
They have a strong sense that anything is all right as long as they are all right themselves.
教育現場では、「授業中に勝手な行動を取る生徒が多い」「自分さえよければいいという考えが広がっている」と教員から悲鳴が上がっているという。
Teachers are reporting an increasing number of students who refuse to do what they are told during class hours and act in a selfish manner.
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Anonymous2012-07-04 12:38
>>677
What did you not understand? It'd be easier to explain if you had typed out an estimation. Also, context.
自分さえよければ|いい
Recently there's been an increasing amount of people thinking it's fine if only they themselves are doing good/fine.
You're going to have to be specific. >>683 is the best anyone can do without understanding why you are finding it difficult.
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Anonymous2012-07-05 9:46
>>683
性格や態度にひねくれたところがなく、あえて人に逆らったりしないさま
1)Without the appearance of perversity in personality, manner, or attitude. Or even some one who does not stand contrary to others.
2)技芸などに癖がないさま
Having no particular distinction with regard to art or the like
3)物の形がまっすぐであるさま
The direct or unpretentious form of things
4)飾り気がなくありのままであるさま
As it simply is without pretension or show.
---
What more do you want to know?
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Anonymous2012-07-05 15:55
>>685
>Or even some one who does not stand contrary to others.
you're parsing it wrong, though the meaning doesn't change much. It's referring to those who do not stand against others in the face of opposition. あえて is kind of weird in that it's used in many situations where in English we wouldn't say anything.
>Having no particular distinction with regard to art or the like
maybe I'm just misunderstanding your English, but it's talking about not having particular style or habits in art (i.e., always curving ones strokes in a particular [likely incorrect] manner, etc)
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Anonymous2012-07-05 16:34
>>686
>It's referring to those who do not stand against others in the face of opposition.
Pretty much the same thing dude. "Dare to go against" etc.
>it's talking about not having particular style or habits in art
"Distinction" encompasses that.
>no "or"
I take that back, there is an "or", but it doesn't warrant splitting the sentence. You make it sound like it is two separate possibilities, rather than all describing one appearance or state.
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Anonymous2012-07-05 18:50
>>688
>No, there is no "or" or "even" in the original.
It's not a matter of being prescriptive. "or even someone . . . " does not make sense as a translation, liberal or literal, for ～あえて人に逆らったりしないさま. It does not list 人に逆らう as an extreme condition within the definition.
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Anonymous2012-07-05 19:21
>>691
You said yourself the meaning doesn't change much. You're worried about how it sounds. It think you're just worrying to much.
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Anonymous2012-07-05 19:41
>>691
Different anon but I don't see a problem with "splitting" the sentences. That's fine. The use of "even", I think, is your concern. It (even) doesn't necessarily indicate only an extreme condition but, yes, it can sound that way. It's usage might be covered in the tari form, trying to show that "not defying" isn't the only action but only an example of it (i.e. "things like" "even this thing", its not that hard to imagine). In that way, the translation does its job. But I agree with you that the guy's translation might sound like there are two separate usages. Let's say something like "Without harboring perversity in personality, manner, or attitude, not standing in opposition to others" and leave it at that. You can try to do away with the double negative, if it really bothers you.
I'm worried about how it sounds because it sounds (at least to me) like you are listing "not daring to defying against others" as a particularly extreme case of 素直. >>693 is right though and I will drop this.
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Anonymous2012-07-05 21:41
I have a question about the (Japanese) dialog in the end of the Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz animation. The English dub translates the line as (basically) "Mobile suits and gundams disappeared forever). I've heard that this was an inaccurate translation of the Japanese. I tried writing it out (the Japanese) and trying to figure it out on my own, but I haven't had any luck.
The line(s) sound like:
afuta coroni 197 hitobito motto ni heiwa ha modotta
soshite sono gou no rekishi no naka de gandamu wo fuku mobiru sutsu to yuu heiki no sonzai wa
nidotto sono sugata wo arawasu koto wa nakatta
...
I'd really appreciate it if someone could translate that bit (directly) for me, and I'd also really love it if I could see the whole Japanese bit written out w/ the kanji so I can save it for reference.
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Anonymous2012-07-05 22:27
>>695
Liberal translation. Some errors are probably both your and my fault.
afuta coroni 197 hitobito motto ni heiwa ha modotta
アフタコロニー197人々もと(not motto ni)に平和は戻った。
After Colony 197 (The year, I assume), peace returned to the lives of (the) people.
soshite sono go no rekishi no naka de gandamu wo fuku mobiru sutsu to yuu heiki no sonzai wa
そして、その後(not sono gou)の歴史の中でガンダムを吹くモビルスーツという兵器の存在は、
And, following the history of those events, the existence of the mobile suit weapon heralded as "Gundam"
nidotto sono sugata wo arawasu koto wa nakatta
二度とその姿を現すことはなかった
never again emerged.
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Anonymous2012-07-05 22:29
>>695
If the subs say "Mobile suits and gundams disappeared forever", than yes, its not a very accurate line. But if it was intended for the last two lines, then it could pass as lazy translating or necessary because of screen time, formatting, etc.
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Anonymous2012-07-05 23:45
>>697 >>696
Thanks. I asked because fans sometimes point at that line as a "bad" aspect of the show, because they dislike this notion that peace reigned forever and there was never any war again, etc., etc. that the final narration (in the dub) seemed to present.
>>696
Thank you for that. How is 人々 pronounced? I thought for sure I heard 4 syllables. Or, wait... is the second character kanji? Or just a really small ma?
You should get an addon such as rikaichan, it will help with readings. It's ひとびと.
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Anonymous2012-07-06 0:06
Hey people, I've never posted here before so I'm sorry if I'm asking the wrong kind of thing in the wrong thread. Or board, for that matter.
It's been about a full year since I took a year (2 semesters) of Japanese. I'm getting a bit rusty. Are there any good tools, either online or retail, I can use to study so I can get in shape to take more classes next semester?
I've still got all of my vocabular and kanji flashcards from the Genki I and Genki II textbooks, but just doing flashcards all the time is... really tedious. Anyone have any ideas?
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Anonymous2012-07-06 2:44
Trying to understand the difference between 目標 and 目的. From what I've read, I'm thinking 目標 is, relatively speaking, short term goals, as in "Today I hope to get so-and-so done" or "This year I'm hoping to get so-and-so done" kind of goals. While 目的 is closer to a reason for existing, like "The organisation's goal is..." etc. Would that be correct, or have I completely misunderstood?
Thanks.
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Anonymous2012-07-06 9:27
>>702
Again, as with all these synonyms, they mean essential the same thing and can be used interchangeably in most situations. It's the difference between "goal" 目的 and "objective" 目標 Most Japanese people will use them interchangeably but with slightly different flavor.
The largest difference is obvious when you break down the kanji. 目的 (eye and target/object). The idea in the kanji is you're like a hunt chasing down your target. Its mainly used for abstract ideas, goals, thoughts, etc. Yes, what is abstract depends on who you talk to but, again, that's the idea.
目標 (eye and mark/sign), on the other hand, is the opposite. It's used with non-abstract, more firm ideas or goals. The idea presented in the kanji is that you can see your goal on paper and follow a process or something to complete it. It's important to note that most people use 目標 for about anything, while 目的 is (usually unconsciously) reserved for grand, abstract, distant ideas.
目標とは目的を達成するために目指すべき行動や道筋を具体的に示したもの。
An objective is something that specifically indicates the actions or direction one should make a priority (aim for) in order to accomplish one's goal
It's pretty much the same in English.
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Anonymous2012-07-06 12:27
>>701
listen to some japanese songs, read some manga/novel/vn?
get used to looking at runes again
maybe flip through taekim's guide for a refresher
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Anonymous2012-07-06 12:33
I'm not >>702 but reading that made me think; what is the normal word used for a sign? Like a traffic sign or a sign that indicates your current location. Also, what's the word for a sign in more a figurative sense like "There are no signs of infection".
On another matter, how do I say "Right now" with a nuance that says "but will most likely change in a near future".
Like: "Right now, nothing is more fun than Japanese(studies)." but that will probably no longer be the case in a few weeks/months.
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Anonymous2012-07-06 13:17
>>706
看板 is a general sign
目印 is a mark or landmark that general points to something
合図 is a sign or signal that can be physical or metaphorical etc.
(you could have probably figured all that out by yourself though. Use a dictionary.)
I would say 今のところ、今のところは meaning "for now, right now, as it is now" but 当分、当分の間 (which is a little stinted and rough sounded) means "for the moment, for the time being". When you want a translation, its important to think about what you're REALLY saying in English. Do you mean "right now" as in "at this moment"? Or do you mean "for the time being"? In your case, more so the latter. Think about the context of what you're saying, and you can start to do this by yourself.
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Anonymous2012-07-08 11:37
What's the difference between はない じゃない がない もない?
What do these different particles imply when negating something with ない?
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Anonymous2012-07-08 13:59
>>708
Difference? A lot. They're not exactly comparable, because only in じゃない are you actually negating anything. ない is actually the negative form of ある ("to exist"). じゃない is the opposite of the plain copula だ (or nothing at all; usually だ is implied when sentences end on a noun) and also a contraction of ではない (which is the negative form of the literary/formal copula である).
お金じゃない "[something] is not money" (like, something you yell when someone tries paying you in beaver furs; may be accompanied by throwing said furs against walls)
お金がない "have no money" (lit: money does not exist)
As for the rest, the question really becomes "what do these different particles mean." They already imply things regardless of whether you're using them with ない.
地震の危険はない。 There is no danger of an earthquake.
Here, the information that is emphasized is ない ("not exist").
地震の危険がない。 There is no danger of an earthquake.
Here, the information that is emphasized is 地震の危険.
地震の危険もない。 There is also no danger of an earthquake [in addition to something previously mentioned that does not exist either].
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Anonymous2012-07-09 5:38
I've been trying to find an equivalent of shitlord and the closest approximation I could find was 糞の主は or 糞主. Can anyone confirm this? Shitlord is usually used to label people like the ones in second life so I have a feeling that 糞 isn't exactly correct.
I also want to find out how to say "eat shit, shitlord." The closest I can come up with is くそくらえ but I'm not sure where to put 糞主.
Also is there an equivalent to glorious nippon?
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Anonymous2012-07-09 11:32
>>710
Shitlord isn't even a word in English. And unlike western languages, you can't just through two words together and call it an insult in Japanese. 糞 isn't exclusively "shit" as in poop, it has other meanings.
But if you want to do this stupid shit, yes, 糞王様 or the like would be the rough equivalent. くそくらえ, 糞王様 would be the correct order. I don't know if there's a phrase that actually contains the same sarcasm and irony as the "glorious nippon" meme but 輝かしい/素晴らしい/栄えある 日本 would all be direct translations.
Pretty elementary question compared to other ones here: What does the statement 調子乗るな mean? I've come across it a few times and have just been interpreting it as something equivalent to "watch your tone" for the time being, but I have no idea if that's correct or even close to being correct.
>>715
動物の身体 body of the animal
ある夜の呼吸 a certain night's breath
地下鉄の動態 subway movements/dynamics
波の始まり the wave's beginning
水の形、面の終わり the water's form, the surface's end
モービル mobile
森と証明 forest and proof
落下から衝突まで from the fall to the conflict
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Anonymous2012-07-10 3:49
Thanks very much, are there any other possible translations for 2 and 3?
Just those two sound a little weird.
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Anonymous2012-07-10 4:08
>>716 >>717
I would interpret 地下鉄の動態 as "the subway's rhythms" (as in vitals) but that's a bit more liberal
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Anonymous2012-07-10 4:52
>>718
Hm, I think The Subway's Movements would be about right
Also, any alternatives for "forest and proof" that sounds odd
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Anonymous2012-07-10 9:41
>>719
It's really splitting hairs because I honestly don't care but "The Subway's Movements" doesn't include the sense of change that 動態 elicits. 動態 is not "movement", but the conditions that contain movement, a fluctuation or variation.
Also, 落下から衝突まで should not use "conflict" but collision. "From the fall to the collision", "On the way down", "After the fall and before the hit", those ideas.
証明 can be proof, verification, validity, demonstration, authentication, literally anything in English that contains the ideas of "proof" and "bringing forth"/"enlightening"
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Anonymous2012-07-10 11:05
Hmm, "The Dynamics Of The Subway" sounds alright for that one.
"From The Fall To The Impact" makes a bit more sense.
and "Forest And Enlightenment" sounds good as well.
And one more thing which I'm a little unsure about is this one 水の形、面の終わり. "the water's form, the surface's end" sounds a bit weird now I think about it.
Thank you very much for your help so far.
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Anonymous2012-07-10 14:18
Is there any semantic difference between using をする instead of する with a suru verb? e.g. 約束をする vs 約束する
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Anonymous2012-07-10 14:33
>>722
Kind of but, for all intents and purposes, not really. The use of 'wo' heightens the sense that the noun is "to be done" etc.
約束をする
to make a promise
約束する
to promise
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Anonymous2012-07-10 14:35
>>721
The 面 here is most likely the water's surface.
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Anonymous2012-07-11 20:05
How many Kanji per day for Remembering The Kanji is normal? Or, how many did you guys do if you did it this way?
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Anonymous2012-07-11 20:18
>>725
People learn at different speeds. Find one you're comfortable with.
I did (calculating it afterwards as I literally never skipped a single day) an average of 20 per day. For a few weeks I had little else to do so I upped it to a regular of 40 a day, and a few days here and there I did 60 a day. Sometimes when things got out of hand, I dropped it to 10 a day. What that should tell you, in case it doesn't, is that 726 is 100% right, and there isn't a single number that can be given that will work.
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Anonymous2012-07-15 8:43
Could anyone share their experiences of when they started reading 'proper' material, as opposed to textbook-based learning? I've just dived into reading my first VN, and after 20 sentences I'm knackered. I've been told it gets easier, but I'm wondering on what kind of scale. Am I going to be stuck on 20 sentences each day for a few weeks, months, or longer?
Sorry it's not a specific question, but it helps with motivation to know where I'm likely to end up.
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Anonymous2012-07-15 10:59
Every now and then I come across a word with multiple readings. I'm used to this for kanji, but most of the time when there are multiple kanji together, it's just the single reading. For example, 身体を起こし、辺りを見回す. Rikaichan gives me two different readings for '辺り' for the same meaning. Is there any stylistic difference between the two, and, in similar situations, is there any way of picking from the two (if there are any differences)? Or should I just try and avoid words like this until I'm beginning to get a natural feel for readings?
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Anonymous2012-07-15 13:22
>>731
At its core, Rikaichan is really just an unannotated edict. It doesn't even list the "common word" (which is usually the reading to use when you have no other way to tell) tag like most other edict-based dictionaries. In other words, it's good for quick lookups, but get your hands on something more solid.
For this particular instance:
1) ほとり pertains to the "on the bank of/ on the side of" (→きわ) meaning more so than vicinity/neighborhood. In general, 辺りを見回す (looking around) is read あたり.
2) ほとり is not a standard reading for 辺り; it's also associated with 畔 (also a nonstandard reading, and in this case it'd be an example of 義訓).
3) Google is a somewhat reliable indicator of usage. Compare results for あたりを見回す vs ほとりを見回す (be sure to enclose both in quotation marks for "as-is" search). There are actually cases where you would use ほとりを見回す, but they're preceded with 湖の or 池の (talking about the bank of a body of water).
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Anonymous2012-07-15 13:43
>>730
Similar thing happened to me. Right now I still find VNs intimidating. Regular novels are much more accessible, so maybe you could give that a try. Key difference is that there's more narration and less dialogue.
Oh yeah, one suggestion I've seen floating around a lot is to read Harry Potter in Japanese (alongside the original English and/or with a Japanese audiobook). I've never done that myself though, YMMV.
Is there a go-to website for the 'common word'? Or should I always just use google as you described? I can see it working, but probably not rather efficiently.
>>730
If you need to look up that much, it might be a bit too early to start. I'd say when you can get a comfortable 80-90% result on JLPT2 reading comprehension(do the old online tests) is when you can start reading material not meant for studying.
All entertainment works does get a lot easier though. Once you understand the characters, the keywords and the general plotline, you'll notice how those same words always recur. Especially if what you're reading is fantasy or sci-fi.
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Anonymous2012-07-15 21:01
>>730
I dunno... I only started trying to read big things once I was like 1300 or so Kanji in. I started by playing Tales of Phantasia and just writing down words I don't know. Now I read whatever and do the same thing still.
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Anonymous2012-07-16 0:53
>>738
I do something similar and have a skill level between JLPT 2 and 1. Reading textbooks until you can just handle most everything you come across is unrealistic, not to mention boring and limited in its scope. The only way you'll learn to read is by reading.
I'm not sure if you remember a series of books called Great Illustrated Classics. They were basically classic novels rewritten in simple English and intended for grades 3 to 8. There's a similar series in Japanese (minus the illustrations) that simplifies classics from H.G Wells and other authors and is intended for pre-high school reading. I don't use it for kanji practice (because it provides furigana) but the books definitely test your reading comprehension and vocabulary.
What are the various uses of the verb つける? I see it used in various different ways but I'm not sure what it means half the time, especially since it's usually written in kana so I can't associate different meanings with different kanji. I would appreciate if someone could help clarify this for me.
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Anonymous2012-07-16 14:16
>>743
It's usually 付ける, that something is attached or "comes with" whatever your doing.
There are many uses for it, but the most common is just "to attach". There's no point in listing every idiomatic meaning for every potential kanji. If there's a usage you don't understand, feel free to post it here and someone will help you out.
>>749
That's just one of the connotations. ついている and ついていない, lucky and unlucky, but not in the sense you're an "unlucky" person. It's measured on a daily, weekly, a finite basis, luck has "attached itself" to you for that day. We have the a similar thing in English: when someone "has it" or "is on" today.
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Anonymous2012-07-18 8:44
Are there are resources where I can just read copious amounts of material that only covers the grammar up to and including Genki II? I've learnt a bit ahead of that stage, but it seems that whenever I go off to read other things, the grammar I learnt in Genki just falls out of my mind; it's definitely not a problem of understanding, as I can go 'Oh yeah! Of course!' if I re-read the section in Genki, but afterwards I forget it more rapidly than I do other things. So I'm guessing I need to see it in a billion different contexts until it sticks.
So what's the best way to move forward from here? Sorry for being really vauge, but I was always under the impression I'd just read things until it stuck, but it's not happening.
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Anonymous2012-07-18 13:25
>>755
If you're forgetting it, that means it hasn't been committed to your long term memory. Your brain thinks you can just look it up every time you need to know it, so it's not treating it as information that you need in your head. Trick you brain by really trying to commit it to long term memory through fast repetition and recollection throughout the day, use mnemonics, flashcards, anything you need to drill it into your head. This is basic shit though, and it doesn't work for everyone. Learn how YOUR brain works and beat the shit out of it to learn Japanese.
Maybe you should see the explanations themselves in other contexts (other books/guides). There are a lot of textbooks that cover the pretty much the same introductory material (as 754 said, Genki doesn't cover that much)
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Anonymous2012-07-18 17:29
I hear the phrase (name)のバカ thrown around a lot, and the usual translation is something like "(name) is an idiot". I thought that would be more like (name)はバカ though, since if I didn't know any better, I would think (name)のバカ is "(name)'s idiot". What function of の lets you use it like は? Are there other examples?
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Anonymous2012-07-19 7:09
A few things I'm confused about for the following translation. If any anon could explain my queries/point out what I got wrong, it'd be much appreciated, thanks.
悪さばかりのウッドペッカー
A mischievous woodpecker (ばかり has me confused. How does this fit in?)
今日も穴あけ森ボロだらけ
Today, again, ruining the forest with holes
怒ったウッド・ゴッドくちばしを毒に変えた
The angry wood god transforms your beak into a poisonous one
困ったウッドペッカー巣穴が毒にご飯も毒に
Troubled woodpecker, your nesting holes filled with poison, food too filled with poison
友達に触れれば死ぬばかり
If you touch your friend, they will simply die (Again, ばかり has me confused?)
悲しんだウッドペッカー
Poor woodpecker
毒の涙がキラキラ光る
Your poisonous tears shine (Is キラキラ光る like saying 'glisten and shine'? Not sure about that)
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Anonymous2012-07-19 10:18
今日も穴あけ森ボロだらけ
Today, again, ruining the forest with holes
---
There is nothing in this sentence about "ruining" and it's a stretch when you consider what this line is trying to communicate
今日も穴を開けて、森は襤褸だらけ（だ、になった etc.）
---
怒ったウッド・ゴッドくちばしを毒に変えた
The angry wood god transforms your beak into a poisonous one
"one" is not here, just "poison"
---
困ったウッドペッカー巣穴が毒にご飯も毒に
Troubled woodpecker, your nesting holes filled with poison, food too filled with poison
Again, you're being too imaginative with what's not there. There's nothing "being filled" with poison. It turns to poison or becomes poisonous. What follows に here is likely 変わる or that idea
---
触れれば is the conditional but also the potential. "If you COULD touch your friend(s)"
ばかり means full of, nothing but, etc.
死ぬばかり here is similar but means more closely only die, just die, or, like you said simply, die.
キラキラ is the onomatopoeia for a glisten, sparkling, shine etc. while 光る is simply a shine of light, or a brief glitter. I would choose "glisten" or "glimmer"
I think you're the one who's far too worried about being literal. There may not be any explicit statement of ruining, but ぼろ is in itself a word with negative associations and it's talking about how the woodpecker goes around opening holes, leaving the forest full of (bad) holes.
Are you seriously going to argue that there's a major difference between "a poisonous beak" and "a poison beak" other than that we would virtually never say the latter in English? Not explicitly using の for a noun replacement doesn't mean we should do the same in the English translation.
I'll agree with the food line if only because the English (your food turns poisonous) sounds fine. It doesn't change the meaning significantly, though, as it's clear both are intended to mean "your food is toxic (to you)".
触れれば is clearly ふれれば and not さわれれば. It's not potential.
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Anonymous2012-07-19 11:38
>>761
>leaving the forest full of (bad) hole
Is "ruining" the best word for that? Not in my opinion.
>we would virtually never say the latter in English?
We would totally say that in English. There is a difference, it isn't major but its a distinction worth pointing out saying. One is poisonous and the other is poison.
>触れれば
Misread it
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Anonymous2012-07-19 17:37
>>758
Sometimes の can replace が, but I'm not absolutely sure if that's the case here. Perhaps someone else can give a better explanation.
I apologise if I'm mistaken, but I think I recall hearing about a site where you can write out sentences and get Japanese natives to speak them for you, while you speak English ones. Sort of like lang8, but for audio, though I'm unsure if it was specifically for Jap/Eng. Does anyone recall the site I'm thinking of?
And now I originally thought it had something to do with 二, 示, 卩or 巳, but nothing I've found, either in my own books or on Denshi Jisho, has been able to come close. The original sentence it was in was as follows (taken from Sword World, vol. 1, p. 281): 一方で夜の稼業に就く者たらに信仰され, 盗賊の守護女神や娼館の守り神としても[unknown kanji]られています.
If someone would point me in the right direction, that would be absolutely fantastic. Thanks!
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Anonymous2012-07-20 21:52
>>768
I just guessed the meaning of the word based on the context of the sentence "worship/revere/etc." and found it 祀る. 祀られる is your culprit.
for the record it romanizes to daimaō/daimaou (だいまおう)
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Anonymous2012-07-21 13:06
Someone I know who thinks he's a hot shot at Japanese just posted this: 佐々と元気だして (telling a friend to cheer up). I'm assuming he means さっさと, which is I'm pretty sure is completely onomatopoeic and doesn't have a kanji.
He also said お前のそういうところは俺て似すぎて分からないわけもないが. My guess is he's trying to say something like "You obviously know that part of you really resembles my own/me" or "There's no way you don't know we have that point in common", or something like that. I'm assuming he meant to say 俺って...but can 似る be used with that kind of construction (って、という)? I know it can be used with と or に but って means neither of those.
Can anyone double check these things to see if this guy knows something I don't?
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Anonymous2012-07-21 13:08
>>779
Or "I definitely know we have that point in common"
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Anonymous2012-07-21 13:22
Hello! I would like some help with translations for a card game. The title/name of all the cards would be liked, but only the effects of "Star Sapphire" and "Sunny Milk" are necessarily needed.
>>783
No, no thanks for the effort! The name is really helpful to completing the paste-ups for the game.
If it's better, you can make a pastebin of the translations as to not clog up the thread.
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Anonymous2012-07-22 8:23
Are there any specialised textbooks to learn the more polite grammar? I'm thinking something like an in-depth version of http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/honorific as it seems to me like something that warrants extensive research, rather than a single webpage, if I'm going to study it seriously.
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Anonymous2012-07-22 12:20
>>785
I don't know any, but I'm curious, do you have examples of what you consider in-depth and/or isn't covered on that page?
That page is as far as I've got, so no. I'm just thinking that I'd rather have as close to a comprehensive guide as I can, rather than do a half-assed job and end up finding a tonne of unfamiliar stuff that I have to look up anyway. Of course I will have to look stuff up anyway, but it'll be easier to find if I've gone over it once.
Holy Jesus, that looks intimidating. I take it from the 74 page document that I won't need to any other keigo guides? Regardless, thanks anon, will /try/ to get through it.
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Anonymous2012-07-22 20:38
Is there an insult that rhymes with or sounds very similar to hinageshi?
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Anonymous2012-07-22 20:39
You know the muscle soreness/pain that you get the day after working out, what do you call that in Japanese?
No one would do that. I'd like to say that most people are rather familiar with the people they have sex with, but if you're thinking of porn (which is obviously where you and everyone else learns this vocab from), saying いきます would be like a girl saying "I'll be arriving momentarily" (i.e cumming) when you're pounding her. That said, porn is likely the ONLY realm this question could be taken seriously.
Could you say いきます as something of a demeaning term? Like imagine how you get high school girls giggling at something, could you say it like that? As in, "Wow, this sucks, better make him feel inadequate?" Or would it have a different effect?
(Sorry, I'm genuinely curious; I can't help myself)
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Anonymous2012-07-23 11:05
>>797
Pretty sure the universal "a strong glare while not saying anything" would do that better. My point: いきます to say "I'm cumming" just sounds kind of weird, sounds overly polite, and just really out of place. In my experience anyway. Sure, you could have a very polite girl who doesn't drop the masu form ever but...that would be weird to begin with. Especially when you reach the stage when she wants to/lets you have sex with her.
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Anonymous2012-07-23 11:27
>>795
I really shouldn't have laughed as much as I did...
One of my biggest weaknesses is verb endings, no matter how much I read Tae Kim it just never clicks in my head. Is there some kind of handy resource or learning mnemonic or something to help me get a better understanding?
Can you be any more specific? Auxiliary verbs? Or conjugations in general?
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Anonymous2012-07-24 13:28
About 割と and 比較的に, do they have different nuances or can they be used interchangeably?
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Anonymous2012-07-24 13:46
>>805
Again, they're essentially the same. The main nuance is 割りと is more conversational and used in everyday spoken language. 比較的 is more hard sounding, usually written, but can be spoken.
More specific nuances: 割りと is short for 割合と, with a comparable rate or proportion, something known or experienced. 比較的 is similar but more so with things that are general, not necessarily unique to you or your experience.
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Anonymous2012-07-25 17:03
>>805
割りと, as 806さん said carries a casual nuance to it and is often used as "rather", "relatively" in conversation. 俺ペプシ割と好きやけど。
比較的 is hard ass "comparatively" "compared to". 比べる is a decent substitute and still sounds softer.
Jisho says if jukugo are "in common use" or "archaic," if that's what you are referring to, but it would be awesome if there was something that was a bit more specific.
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Anonymous2012-07-28 8:10
What's the difference between 返る and 戻る?
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Anonymous2012-07-28 12:54
>>814
Nuance. 返る is more figurative "turning back" or "giving back" rather than returning somewhere physical. for example 振り返る to look back.
戻る and 帰る are closer in meaning in how they both mean to return somewhere. In therms of the difference between those two, I think 帰る is used more as a "return to base" kind of nuance. If you leave from where you normally are for an extended period of time and return back there, to home you typically use 帰る. 戻る is a general term where if you're in the process of going about different places, A > B > C, and you need to go back to B from C you'd use 戻る.
Yes, I was taught in class that 帰る should only be used when you want to return home, not when you want to go back to the restaurant because you forgot your wallet.
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mattya2012-07-30 4:12
skype:nabdmatcha
japanese
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Anonymous2012-07-31 12:10
>>818
both 帰る and 戻る can be used when u go back home to take ur wallet with u
財布を取りに戻る。
財布を取りに帰る。
they sound the same
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Anonymous2012-07-31 15:28
Anyone noticed that the e-mail field in >>1 says "japs are scum"?
More likely "I wonder how long it will take until someone understands me", but it technically could be that.
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Anonymous2012-08-01 19:23
>>827
Or "understand "who" I am" as in there are multiple choices. But the が particle would do a better job of indicating that.
私が誰かと分かるのにどれぐらいかかる or 私が誰かが分かるのにどれぐらいかかる
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Anonymous2012-08-03 13:21
Not sure how much you care but I have an update for my Nanzan friend since you helped me out significantly.
So as it turns out, I was placed in Act international dorm with a max of 6 residents. That was a big motivation killer for me since I really, really wanted to live in the koryu kaikan, both for the social possibilities and the distance to school. I even send a request for a possible transfer but was denied so as big a hit as it was on my expectations, I'll have to live with it.
All the other paperwork went fine. Flights booked - Visa granted. I'll be arriving the 1st and leaving the 28th.
I've also met Axel and Rebecca few times during the summer. Rebecca even gave me her course litterature and that index of Kanji/grammar/expressions they used in IJ600. Axel was a really cool dude, was fun to talk about Japanese with him and we even had a Smash Bros. Brawl tournament that they apparently did a lot of in Nagoya.
>>829
Sorry to hear you didn't get your first choice, but all the ACT guys I knew were pretty awesome. They threw ridiculous parties too (and got a lot of shit for it too). Make the best of it and you'll be fine.
Yeah, we pretty much did nothing but play Brawl at NKK. But I'm glad to hear everything went well. You'll have an awesome time, trust me. Cheers.
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Anonymous2012-08-04 4:40
Anyone know a good Japanese Podcast? ( conversation mostly ) thanks!
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Anonymous2012-08-04 10:24
>>831
Thanks, I didn't knew about those two, they seem to be more complete when it comes to grammar. I think I'll only use the site I linked for learning kanji, then.
などなど. It also means "to put mildly" but it carries that same kinda feeling you want.
when searching google they also give me 過小表示. As a side note, get into the habit of typing "whatever english word + 意味" and you will likely find japanese dictionary sites that give you an equivalent or multiple.
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Anonymous2012-08-09 23:20
>>843
Not very precise, but for what it's worth . . .
食料事情は満足のいくものではないと言うのはなまぬるい表現だ。何百万という人が餓え死にしているのだから。
To say that the food situation is unsatisfactory is the understatement of the year. Millions of people are dying of hunger.
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Anonymous2012-08-12 13:46
Can I get some feedback from you fine folks on this short letter to customer support? My Japanese writing has not developed at the same pace as my reading, unfortunately, so I'm bound to have made some mistakes somewhere.
Background: I'm order a lot of books from Honto soon (they have a bonus point promotion going on), but there's a chance that the whole batch might be heavier than 15kg. Since their FedEx shipping rates page only goes up to 15kg, I'd like to know what they would do in that case. I'm hoping that they won't decide to switch to EMS and charge me for that instead since EMS is more than twice as expensive.
Thanks!
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Anonymous2012-08-12 14:54
This would probably work:
こんにちは。(line brake)
近日（中に）、（多数の本を）(Be descriptive about what you want)注文しようとします（が、少し）(sounds better)疑問があります。
FedEx配送方法が利用したいのですが(flows better)、FedEx送料のページに記載している情報どおり(little more clear)、１５キロ以上の荷物（に）はFedExが利用できないそうです（difference between nasasou and naisou)。
(たくさんのor数多く)本を買いたいので、荷物は１５キロを超えると思います。
正直にいうと、本当は私が買いたい本は１５キロを超えるかどうかはっきり言えませんが、もしそうなら、EMSの代金が請求してくるか、二つの箱に分けてもらえないか（この方は優先ですが）どうなるか教えてくれれば、ありがたいと思います。
失礼します。
>>850
It's not really a matter of which is more "natural", they mean two different things. What's "natural" depends on nuance of what you are saying.
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Anonymous2012-08-13 11:37
>>852
の is usually for things you're familiar with, whereas こと for things you're not. (This is because the 'n' sound is softer than the 'k' sound.) In other words, you probably wouldn't use 料理を作ることが上手です to talk about yourself.
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Anonymous2012-08-13 18:07
Why do they sometimes say 雨が降っていました and sometimes 雪が降りました?
I know て-form is used when something takes a while, but why do they alternate between the two?
I have a Japanese course coming up in about a month, are there any resources you would recommend looking at beforehand? Just in choosing to take it, I noticed that it uses topic comment, which I'm mostly fine with from ASL, thoughts?
The best thing I could say is studying the kana beforehand. Do that and you'll be ahead of the curve by a noticeable degree.
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Anonymous2012-08-15 12:27
>>860
I actually don't recommend this. I did the same thing and I was ahead of the game for about a trimester, actually, having learned all the hiragana and katakana alphabets. Then, next trimester, we started on Kanji and I had never really alotted time to making flash cards or memorizing in my study schedule and I bobbled kanji for the rest of the course.
In a Japanese course, a large part of your study efforts will be directed at memorizing symbols and you can never really "get ahead" there are a lot of kanji out there. So just buckle up and do it.
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Anonymous2012-08-15 13:30
Can someone explain 帰って来た to me?
Why do they "subject returned and came". Why not only use one of them?
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Anonymous2012-08-15 16:24
>>861
Lol are you retarded. If you know 100 Kanjis you're obviously ahead of someone who knows 50.
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Anonymous2012-08-15 19:50
>>861
Well no shit, making an effort to stay ahead isn't a one-time deal. Once you're ahead, you have to keep working to stay ahead. It's just that some explanations will be easier to get when you're not trying to learn elementary orthography at the same time.
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Anonymous2012-08-15 22:37
>>862
Look for an explanation of ってくる and っていく on google. They're a dime a dozen.
Huh? I don't understand. When I said "ahead of the curve", I meant a headstart AT THE BEGINNING. Obviously, you won't cruise the rest of your studies just because you learned kana earlier. Kanji is another story, and you should definitely keep up with those as well. It's easy to neglect reviewing those.
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Anonymous2012-08-16 21:04
にほんは なんご
I'm really confused here, this would mean ’Regarding Japan, what language?' Pretty much asking what language do they speak in Japan. If this is wrong could someone please explain why, I'm having trouble getting around the なん or なに rule
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Anonymous2012-08-16 22:11
Reading Kino's Journey right now, and I'm confused on a sentence.
何度も言うけれどモトラドの運転はスポーツなんだ。自転車ほどではないにしろ、ただ走っているだけでかなりのエネルギーを消耗する。
(NOTE: Motorads are basically talking motorcycles. Said talking motorcycle is the speaker here.)
Specifically, the second clause of the second sentence. From what I understand, the text goes something like "I've told you plenty of times! Operating a motorad is a sport. Not as much as bicycling is," and from there it seems like he's saying "although just running wastes a lot of energy", which I don't feel fits the rest of the sentence. Any thoughts?
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Anonymous2012-08-16 22:18
>>867
wait are you getting confused by your own writings
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Anonymous2012-08-16 22:32
>>867
日本は何語 could be understood as "What is the language of the Japan" but its 1st year structure meant to teach you the basics.
>>868
That's what it says. Chalk it up to bad writing if you want. He's saying that that the energy consumption of the Motorads are less than that of bicycles.
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Anonymous2012-08-16 22:37
>>868
I hope you at least realized that the second sentence doesn't state that bicycling is more of a sport than that motorad thing.
"Even if it's not [as exhausting as] bicycling, just driving [the motodora] consumes/takes quite a lot of energy."
Not sure if you were just misunderstanding this meaning of 走る (車が走る etc), or if you have way larger problems (can't into implied topics etc).
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Anonymous2012-08-16 22:42
>>870
that would be nanigo not nango and if that shit's from a book or language guide it must be horrible for sure
also don't blame bad writing if you can't comprehend the language properly
Thanks, I think I get it now. I didn't think the ほど could refer to the second clause like that, but it makes sense that it does. I had also never seen にしろ or はしる used in those contexts. Thanks again.
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Anonymous2012-08-16 22:54
>>872
>also don't blame bad writing if you can't comprehend the language properly
>>874
i'm sure it's not yomiuri bungakusho material but in >>870 you clearly demonstrated miscomprehending a sentence this simple so gooby-kun please reflect on your current level of understanding instead of throwing around bullshit remarks like "it seems like bad writing" because this type of shit is typical of what you can expect to find in native sources now stop posting tia
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Anonymous2012-08-16 23:12
>>876
Stop being retarded. I didn't "miscomprehend" anything. >>871 even corroborated what I said. I think its bad writing. That's my opinion. Fuck off already.
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Anonymous2012-08-16 23:18
>>877
To clarify, (because you'll need it) the reason I say "chalk it up to bad writing" is because the OP was confused by the obvious dichotomy between the two sentences. Besides trying to connect the first clause of the second sentence to the first sentence instead of seeing how it related closer to the second, just from a composition standard and without having any previous or further context, the reason why the OP was confused could be "chalked up" to the illogical flow of ideas i.e. bad writing.
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Anonymous2012-08-16 23:46
>>877
i am >>871. let's compare the translations once more
>自転車ほどではないにしろ、ただ走っているだけでかなりのエネルギーを消耗する。
>He's saying that that the energy consumption of the Motorads are less than that of bicycles.
>"Even if it's not [as exhausting as] bicycling, just driving [the motodora] consumes/takes quite a lot of energy."
did you spot the difference? you missed the subject and therefore couldn't properly translate the sentence.
let's use simple logic. does a bicycle consume energy? (hint: it doesn't.) would it then make any sense that a talking motorbike uses less energy than it?
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Anonymous2012-08-16 23:53
>>878
this exact type of sentence composition is typical of japanese. important information tends to come towards the end, while modifiers can show up a long while before the concept they're modifying.
if you feel that it's illogical in regards to the flow of ideas, that might be because you haven't managed to break out of your SVO thought pattern
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Anonymous2012-08-17 0:05
>>879
>does a bicycle consume energy?
Yes, it does. Everything requires energy to move.
And I parsed it correctly. "although it's not as much as a bicycle (consumption of energy), just running the motorads requires a fair amount of energy. I know what I'm talking about. Maybe you don't. I made an additional leap in logic beyond what the sentences provided (not as much as ほどではない), so it stands to reason
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Anonymous2012-08-17 0:06
>>880
And I'm talking about the DIFFERENT ideas presented in the DIFFERENT sentences. There is no flow between the first and second sentences beyond the subject of the motorads.
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Anonymous2012-08-17 0:06
>>880
And I'm talking about the DIFFERENT ideas presented in the DIFFERENT sentences. There is no flow between the first and second sentences beyond the subject of the motorads.
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Anonymous2012-08-17 0:17
>>882
Yes there is. Sentence one is a statement that riding the motorads is a sport. Sentence two explains why they think so.
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Anonymous2012-08-17 0:18
>>882
I don't really want to take this beyond Japanese, but since when does what qualifies a sport have anything to do with energy consumption?
What are you two even arguing about? It's clearly talking about the energy it takes to ride it (what else is there?). While it's not as intensive as bicycling, riding a motorad takes considerable energy.
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Anonymous2012-08-17 8:28
>>887
>It's clearly talking about the energy it takes to ride it
Yes, which is what >>871 wrote before the arguments started.
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Anonymous2012-08-17 9:17
>>887
Except everyone has failed to notice that the OP of this question ALREADY FIGURED THAT OUT. The other guy was just saying that the nishiro clause was referencing the second sentence, not the first.
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Anonymous2012-08-17 11:44
Is this a gramatically correct sentene?
"The matter could've already been dealt with by the time it took you to say that."
それを言いかかった時間の間に問題はもう扱えていた。
About the 言いかかる. I've never used Japanese grammar like this before and I just need to know if it's possible. Also, while the second half sounds good to me, I want to make sure if it's grammatically correct. If it's not, how would I otherwise say this sentence?
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Anonymous2012-08-17 11:53
Also, I've seen these big black downwards pointing triangles in Japanese textbooks that I just can't figure out what they're for. I've never seen them in novels and fiction but they seem to recur quite often in texts meant for studying.
Doesn't that change the meaning a bit? I wanted the word かかる for "the time it takes", but maybe that is implied.
The second part I can understand, that was just a case of me thinking one thing and writing something different. The meaning I wanted to convey was: "You could've already dealt with the problem by the time it took you to say that". Does "問題はもう扱えていた" work for that?
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Anonymous2012-08-17 19:47
>>893
言いかかる isn't a word. 言いかける is "begin to say" or "start saying". 言う時間をかける (take time to say) or 言う時間がかかる (takes time to say) are the extent of what you're able to do. If you're trying to say "the time it took for you to say that", using 言いかける and "during" doesn't make sense like >>892 pointed out, thought his revisions discardws your original meaning. それを言いかけた時に問題はもう扱われていた translates directly to "When you (or I)started to say that, the problem had already been dealt with". 問題は扱える is awkward and grammatically incorrect but understood. Using を is a much better choice if you don't want to change the nuance by using the passive. Below is a rough estimation of what "You could've already dealt with the problem by the time it took you to say that"
Thanks, I was experimenting with the 言いかかる thing. Wanted to test if Japanese grammar can be made to work like that.
The problem originated from the term あっという間に. I was trying to explain that in Japanese and needed to say "the time it takes to say "ah"" in another way.
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Anonymous2012-08-19 13:10
Does 私は恐ろしい mean both "I am scared" and "I am scary"? I always thought 恐ろしい meant scary, but I definitely heard it used in the scared meaning today. Is it the same for 私は怖い?
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Anonymous2012-08-19 13:30
>>897
Yes, this is why you sometimes here Japanese people say shit like "I am exciting".
Can someone walk me through how japanese addresses work?
Take this example:
"2-3-38 Kikusumi, Minami-ku, Nagoya, 457-0012, JAPAN"
And for reference, this is how addresses work in my country(so please explain it in a way I can relate to).
"Ladugårdsvägen 101, 187 31 Tyresö, SWEDEN"
Ladugårdsvägen: Name of the street
101: Name of the house
187 31: Equivalent to the US Zip code.
Tyresö: These called Municipalities in English. Not sure if the US has them, but they're just a collection of about 10 neighbourhoods. Sweden is divided into 290 of these.
I can guess that Kikusumi is the street name and Minami-ku is kind of like the Swedish Municipalities. 457-0012 is the postal code... I guess?
Problem is, what the fuck is up with that first string of numbers? They count their houses like frenchmen or something?
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Anonymous2012-08-20 17:59
2-3-38 = street/chou number
Kikusumi (chou) = town, block, etc. (chou)
Minami (ku) = ward, district
Nagoya (shi) = city
457-0012 = postal code
If you have at least your chou, ku, shi, and postal code (and name), everything will be fine. That's how it was for me anyway.
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Anonymous2012-08-20 18:03
So in terms of size: Nagoya > Minami > Kikusumi?
Also, 2-3-38, is that the exact number of the building or are there several buildings with that number?
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Anonymous2012-08-20 18:12
>>912
Yes and I'm pretty sure that pinpoints you, not sure though.
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Anonymous2012-08-21 21:53
What is the "officially" you use for a sentence like:
I am officially Swedish, but both my parents are American.
Mind you, you only use the dash for extended sounds in KATAKANA.
In Hiragana, you add the appropriate vowel. Unless it's an お or a う, then use a う .
e.g.
おかあさん with a あ.
おとうさん with a う.
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Anonymous2012-08-24 10:03
Why bother learning Japanese if the Japanese hate and despise foreigners?
>>924
They don't hate foreigners more than any other country, especially if you're fluent in their language. It's a thing from the past.
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Anonymous2012-08-24 10:44
And now I hate myself for answering that one.
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Anonymous2012-08-25 13:25
Do anyone know of a true complete list of all katakana characters, including such combinations as ティ, トゥ, フェ, ヴぁ, ワ゛, ン゛?
Because I've never seen those included in lists and it's pretty stupid because you think you know all of them, then suddenly you stumble upon weird ones such as those.
And like, how are you supposed to know how to write a "ti" sound with テ and not ト for example?
I need a COMPLETE list.
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Anonymous2012-08-25 15:42
>>927
If you study the main, you don't really need to know how フェ and ヴぁ sound. You should just be able to read them.
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Anonymous2012-08-25 15:59
>>927
I've always thought they were pretty self-explanatory, especially with context clues and whatnot.
For ti, I've only ever seen チ (nihon-shiki) or ティ (phonetic) and not ト+whatever.
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Anonymous2012-08-25 17:41
>>928
Not really, what about ヷ? You can't know for sure.
>>929
Pretty good list, but I don't see ン゛ there. It makes me wonder if it's even correct to use, but I've seen it used before. Can YOU tell what sound it's supposed to be?
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Anonymous2012-08-25 18:58
>>930
I've never seen that in any approximations of foreign sounds/words. Google just gives me a bunch of nonsense (nicovideo/twitter/youtube/etc. don't count). My best guess is that it's an accented ン for stylistic sfx purposes. Or, if you saw it in writing, perhaps a scribbled ゾ. I see no mentions of it on the Japanese Wikipedia, and tbh, a glyph that doesn't even have its own Unicode codepoint isn't worth worrying about.
Those kinds of variations on kana aren't very common and it wouldn't deprive you much if you don't devote time to learning them. People sometimes mess with katakana to represent sounds that don't exist in standard Japanese, but not all of them catch on to a wide audience.
>>933
Of the 864,000 results, how many of them actually 「ン゛」 as part of a normal word/sentence? None. But hey, if you're that determined, don't let me stop you.
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Anonymous2012-08-26 3:00
Is it possible to write a small つ without writing anything else?
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Anonymous2012-08-26 3:00
On the computer that is.
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Anonymous2012-08-26 4:18
Well, figured it out now <.< I kinda recall I learned pressing xtsu but that never worked for me so I just assumed I remembered wrong. Appears it was xtu.
It was a manga author's response to me when I sent them this message:
"Could you put this guy in your comic? Perhaps he could become Tomoko's friend. http://twitpic.com/ap0t3t "
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Anonymous2012-08-30 15:50
More context: the manga centers around the life of a girl, Tomoko, who is unpopular. She has practically no friends, is socially awkward, and etc.
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Anonymous2012-08-30 20:14
>>947
"He's too colorful/eccentric, and that'd be a challenge".
is basically the idea of what he's saying.
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Anonymous2012-08-31 6:12
You know when in English, it's sometimes a bother to say "A year and three months" so one might just say "15 months". Is it in anyway strange or unnatural to say １５ヶ月 in Japanese?
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Anonymous2012-08-31 8:55
>>949
No, its used in much the same way as English (counting the months of a newborn, business reports, etc.) but, same as English, it can be awkward in some situations.
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Anonymous2012-08-31 16:56
So what's the best way to study grammar? Everything else is easy to commit to memory, but I don't have an effective method to get a handle on grammar.
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Anonymous2012-08-31 17:15
>>951
You need to use grammar to properly understand and retain it.
Approach this by going over the patterns and their meanings, reading texts from native sources using them, and finally producing sentences yourself (make sure to have them checked).
I'm just trying to figure out the release date of a dvd/blu-ray in japan, I tried with the help of rikaikun and google translate to search for the information on the official website and on japanese amazon but wasn't able to find it, hope that someone that actually knows japanese can help me. Thank you in advance if you do, sorry about my request not being as straightforward as a legitimate question about the japanese language, I hope that someone will be kind enough to help still.
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Anonymous2012-08-31 18:52
>>953
There probably isn't one. Things take a lot longer to come to DVD in Japan. For example, the K-on movie, which was released around this time last year, didn't come out on blu-ray until July.
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Anonymous2012-08-31 20:21
>>953
That was a week ago. There's no way in hell they have a release date for the DVD yet.
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Anonymous2012-08-31 23:23
All right, I had no idea that these dates were setup later on, thank you guys for your help.
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Anonymous2012-09-01 1:37
I tried "Sengoku-izing" somebody's (bad) apology letter from /jp/. I've kept all the idiosyncrasies. How did I do?
Don't know shit about Japanese, so excuse the simple question but I have some confusion between Kore and Kono. Could you please tell me if both of these sentences are correct, please?
Kono ringo wa desu. （ このりんごわです ）
Kore wa ringo desu. （ これわりんごです ）
No, the first sentence makes no sense. The second does mean "This is an apple" (or "These are apples"). Also, you want は (and not わ) as the topic marker (pronounced "wa" nevertheless).
In a nutshell,
これ = "this"
この = "this [something]"
このりんごはあかいです。 (This apple is red.)
このあかいのはりんごです。 (This red one is an apple.)
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Anonymous2012-09-02 0:22
>>961
Ah, thank you very much that clears a lot up! Thankyou.
これはひとですか？ （Is this a person?)
そのひとはやさしです。 （That person is kind)
And that last one can also mean 'Those people are kind' right?
Thank you for all the help, I know this is pretty elementary.
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Anonymous2012-09-02 3:31
Just started.
English:
>26 characters
>plus rules on how they go together
Japanese:
>50 characters
>for not at many sounds
>then another 50 for the same
>then 40K characters for individual words
>plus additional rules on sounds
Their alphabet is kinda inefficient, isn't it?
Also, having one character represent a consonant and vowel is going to take some getting used to.
</blog>
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Anonymous2012-09-02 5:14
>>963
don't forget roughly 1800 commonly used characters.
You speak that way because you're biased toward English, which has dozens of bizarre spelling rules. Although it may seem like a lot, Katakana and Hiragana become as easy as the alphabet, and the spelling rules are always consistent and generally straightforward with exception to maybe particles. Kanji is another story.
I guess. Maybe. Their alphabet seems to limit their sounds way more than necessary, though. You can't write "black" in its pure form using Japanese letters. Closest you can get is "wuraku".
Also, I'm glad that I started while following a Japanese stream. Perfect practice.
Although trying to pick out familiar characters from a mass of unfamiliar characters is a bit of a headache.
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Anonymous2012-09-02 6:34
Also, I like how immediately rewarding this is.
That's fifteen characters that I saw all the time but might as well have been moonrunes two days ago that aren't gibberish anymore.
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Anonymous2012-09-02 9:12
>>966
That's because you cant SAY "black" in its "pure form". Japanese (katakana and hiragana) is actually 100% synchronized with its alphabet. Spellings instantly creates pronunciation (aside from some particles), reason in part as to why their literacy is higher than most. Are you seriously suggesting the English system of pronunciation is somehow more efficient or does a better job of amalgamating words with their pronunciations?
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Anonymous2012-09-02 9:40
Could some one verify this sentence please?
ぼくはひとやさしいです。 (I am a kind person)
I realise it's probably wrong, but would anyone be able to correct it using only hiragana and a simple vocabulary please? I'm just trying to fortify my understanding by making sentences in a format I haven't been taught yet.
"40k kanji" - Why do people keep intimidating themselves like that? You don't even use most of them on a daily basis; the jouyou kanji count is only ~5% of that (2136).
If you really can't get over that, think of kanji as nothing more than an spatial arrangement of strokes, in the same way that English words are a linear arrangement of letters. You know how sometimes you can guess at the meaning of a word from its roots? Same goes for kanji - the radicals can sometimes give you hints on meanings.
tl;dr stop scaring yourself and just get used to the language
>That's because you cant SAY "black" in its "pure form".
What the hell are you talking about?
English speakers have no problems saying "black". They don't need to put a vowel after the "B" or the "ck". They can transition straight into the "l" and not have any other sounds after the "ck".
You're starting to sound like a butthurt Japanese native who doesn't like people pointing out the flaws of his language. GURORIOUSU NIPON RANGUAGE HASU NO FURASU. BAKA GAIJIN.
Or maybe someone who speaks another scarcely used language as his first and is projecting his butthurt into this Japanese discussion?
Don't you guys use kanji because your writing would get cumbersome without them, too?
I don't get mad when people say that English is redundant and has words and "rules" that don't seem to conform to any actual rules. You shouldn't get mad when people point out the flaws in Japanese, either. Stop being stupid.
I'm not scaring myself out of it. Just... posting thoughts. I have to take breaks from stuff.
Learning something vast and unfamiliar is always a little intimidating, but also exciting.
Best you can do is move forward. Learn and adapt.
Not speaking Japanese has been noticeably limiting my hobbies for about a decade now. Valkyria Chronicles 3? Idol Master? Most SRW games? Want to play them. Could, but it would involve a lot of guesswork, and I wouldn't be able to follow the story. I'm at the mercy of translators.
If I could speak Japanese somewhat fluently in 2017, then good.
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Anonymous2012-09-02 18:11
>>976
Are you retarded? He was talking about Japanese. They can't say it. That's why they can't write it and vice versa.
Also, the Japanese CANNOT localize English words without butchering them beyond recognition to anyone with untrained ears, due to their need to put emphasis on a vowel sound after every consonant except for "n" and having less sounds in general. We have 21 consonants. They have ten, plus some modifiers that still don't add up to enough to express every sound in the English language.
As far as I know, the only problems that English would have with Japanese words are their "l/r" sound and "tsu".
He's trying to say that when you say "black", you're actually saying "bulacke", albeit with very, very short vowel sounds, due to the nature of air moving from your mouth.
According to him, Japanese is superior because it represents all of those vowel sounds in writing.
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Anonymous2012-09-02 18:49
Oh yeah, and as for the literacy thing, I'd chalk that up to a culture that puts a lot of stress on DO WELL IN SCHOOL.
Americans? Our youth will shrug off/rush homework assignments in favor of more facebook time, and our schools will pass them through the system anyways.
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Anonymous2012-09-02 23:09
>>977
And I'll tell you now. VC 3 was pretty good. Cleaned up for the mess that 2 was.
What the hell are you going on about? Japanese is limited in its sounds. That doesn't make it empirically better or worse. English has less sounds than some other languages. There isn't (nor should there be) one language that encompasses every possible sound that the human mouth can make. You can't express the clicks present in many African languages, but that doesn't mean English is any worse off for it.
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Anonymous2012-09-03 0:15
ぼくはあなたのママおやる。
That's right, right?
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Anonymous2012-09-03 0:27
How should I know when to use kanji and when not to use kanji?
Leets say I wanted to say 'Where is the new toilet?' Is’新といれはどこですか？’ Right? Is 新トイレはどこですか？’ Right also?
新 as a direct prefix is used in making new words. 新トイレ sounds like one word or one concept ('newtoilet', perhaps) whereas 新しいトイレ is what would be used for "new toilet". As a general rule, kanji follow the language and not the other way around.
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Anonymous2012-09-03 2:38
I don't get how you guys can master both hiragana and katakana over 4-5 days.
Just learning ten in a day tires me out on the subject.
I could force myself to keep going, but I don't think that it would sink in very well.
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Anonymous2012-09-03 2:48
>>987
I transcribed lyrics of some Japanese songs to kana (i.e., replace all the kanji with the readings) and listened to those on repeat while singing along. Had all of hiragana memorized in a couple of days.
The point is to study them in conjunction with something you like. Oh, and prioritize hiragana.
Ten hiragana per day (one page full of each), identify all known hiragana on Japanese websites until I'm not making mistakes anymore.
I can write what I've seen so far off of memory.
Might not work as great for katakana, though.
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Anonymous2012-09-03 3:22
>>985
More of a guideline than a rule, but:
- Use kanji for the most important parts of the sentence (generally, nouns, adjectives, and verbs) when one exists.
- Don't use kanji for stuff marked as "uk" (= "usually written using kana alone") on EDICT.
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Anonymous2012-09-03 11:44
Can someone translate?
見る夢は私に人生をあきらめて睡眠に落ち込もうという誘惑を仕掛けていると時折思う
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Anonymous2012-09-03 12:02
>>991
Sometimes I feel like dreams are tempting me to give up on daily life and fall into the depths of sleep.
Is how I interpret it but somehow the sentence feels a little weird.
>>989
You're going way too slow if you want to see results anytime soon. A week should be enough to learn reading and writing both hiragana and katakana.
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Anonymous2012-09-03 14:45
>>992
The "depth of sleep" sounds a little too poetic to me but everything looks fine. Why would you say its weird?
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Anonymous2012-09-03 15:04
>>994
Word usage. Using 見る夢 as if it's a noun etc.
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Anonymous2012-09-03 15:13
>>995
The difference is probably attributable to the noun phrase "(私が)見る夢", saying "my dreams", "the dreams I have".
睡眠に落ち込もう might sound kind of weird but its not "wrong".
If anyone could tell me which of the above two is right (if any) I'd be really grateful. I know I should be using Kanji in a lot of those words, but lets just ignore that little mess up there.
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Anonymous2012-09-04 18:24
アメリカ is always going to be written in katakana except in very specific dialog-related situations.
おおきい is the word you want, not おおき. おおきな(noun) is also used, but it requires a noun. Assuming you use おおきい, both are correct. Adding です just makes it polite.
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Over 1000 Thread2012-09-04 18:24Over 1000
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