日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 6

If you have a question about the language, ask it and fellow 4channers might see it and answer it for you.

Japanese - Ask questions thread
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1174719097/1-40

日語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread2 質問
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1206158123/1-40

日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 3
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1267485093/1-40

日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 4
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1302350850/1-40

日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 5
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1330050873/1-40

>>558

歩いたり走ったりしながらアイテムを使えるようになればもっと便利だと思います。

>>560

I can actually read Kana but that doesn't help me in this case. Thanks for the help.

Can I negate twice in the same sentence in japanese?
For example, is it correct to say だれにも聞きません, or I must say だれかに聞きません or だれにも聞きます?

>>563
だれにも聞かない "will not listen to/ask anyone"
だれかに聞かない "will not listen/ask someone"
だれにも聞く "will listen/ask anyone/everybody"

bumpo

人の顔を見るなり、いやな表情をするな。

How does the -nari- in this sentence work?

>>566
After dictionary form, it means "right after, as soon as"

>>567

It can also mean something similar to たり, but that's less common and in this situation it's undoubtedly the first meaning.


http://eow.alc.co.jp/search/example?q=%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%AA%E3%82%8A&ref=ex&exp=HT202020&dn=2263351&dk=JE&pg=1
だがそれなら、「心中」などせず、死なないよう女子生徒を説得するなり、カウンセリングを受けさせるなどの方法が取れただろうに。
If so, he could have persuaded her not to die or let her have counseling before committing suicide together.

So do you listen to music while doing your daily Japanese studies? Do you find it affects your ability to learn and recall? Negatively? Maybe even positvely if you listen to music with vocals in Japanese?

>daily Japanese studies

lol

>>569

My study consists mainly of reading and doing Anki. I can't read while listening to music in any language (at least, not effectively) and Anki is pretty foolproof. I don't recommend it but it's going to depend on what you're doing, obviously. "Study" includes many, many things.

>>569
Yes; no.
I turn it off when I read aloud, though, for obvious reasons.

>>561
Thank you very much!

More questions for the Nanzan dude:

When the fall semester ends(December 19 this year), how much time do I have before I'm forced to leave the dorms? Trying to book tickets and would like to, if possible, stay until January second or at least after Christmas.

Do you know about Nagoya-Tokyo buss and train fares? I know it's pretty simple if I take the Shinkansen but I also hear it's almost 10k yen. Got any idea how the busses work? Prices, travel times and intervals? Flying to the central international airport is a pain and it's so much easier to just fly to Tokyo.

How cold does it get during winter? I know the temperature rarely get's colder than 0/32 degrees(Celsius/Farenheit) but I hear the temperature is deceiving because of the humidity. Do I need to bring my Swedish winterjackets?

>>574
You have until the end of the month, the 31st. CJS can accommodate your stay past the end of December but they really hate doing it and it will be a hassle. New people are coming in spring and if you're leaving after the fall, they want you out. If you choose to stay past, they might make you pay another month of rent, so just be aware.

Yeah, a shinkansen from Nagoya to Tokyo is approaching 10k, if not slightly under. You get there in two hours though, which is great if you're doing a day trip (which I did a few times with my girlfriend). Buses leave from Nagoya station (just like the shinkansen) and usually cost about 4000-5000 yen to Tokyo. It's really slow thought and can be pretty dangerous depending on traffic/time of year etc.

Yes, it gets pretty damn cold. I don't remember numbers but it got cold enough to the extent I would get pissed at how cold it was. The winds are especially cold going into February. I would bring at least one big jacket or buy one there.

>>574
Not the guy you're asking but just thought I'd chime in my opinion on Japanese busses. I went from Osaka>Tokyo then Tokyo>hachinohe (then a ferry to Hokkaido). I took a JR bus from Osaka>Tokyo and Willer (http://travel.willer.co.jp/) from Tokyo>Hachinohe. This trip happened in January.

The bus from Osaka to Tokyo left at 10 Am and got there around 6 pm, as I recall. It was basically an all day trip. It cost me around 5500 yen, I think, but I bought it the day of (actually, I missed the bus I was supposed to take . . . long story) so I figure that's a pretty decent price. The ride was quite pleasant, and it was kind of cool seeing some of the rest stops along the way (they're massive affairs, with gift shops, restaurants, etc). I'd definitely do this again, though it would be nice if it were a bit cheaper.

The ride from Tokyo was a night bus, so that was very different. This bus was much smaller (the first was a double decker) and there weren't many stops, as you were expected to sleep, which I did. All I can say about Willer is, you had better learn where your actual stop is. They are cheap, but they tend to have different hubs from JR and some of the other bus lines. Kind of neutral on this one, at least it only cost me 4k (student discount of around 500 I think).

What are some good resources for learning intermediate/advanced grammar? My current grammar knowledge consists of Tae Kim's guide and a few more things I picked up from reading. What resources could I use to get to at least a JLPT1 level from here?

>>577
There are sites out there that provide study guides for JLPT1 grammar, if you intend to use that as a benchmark. From what I've heard though, there's a good deal of 書記言語 and not so much things you'll see/use on a daily basis.

Also, if you haven't already, take a look at the "A Dictionary of * Japanese Grammar" (Basic/Intermediate/Advanced)

>>574
bring snus. lots of it.

Genki has
Q: 日本語がわかりますか
A: ひらがなならわかります

Could I have

A: かたかなならわかりません

To say that I can understand it, but not if it's written is katakana?

>>578

After which of those books, if any, would I be in a reasonable position to start reading LNs with rikaichan?

>>581
How about you read ACTUAL novels? Even novels that are for high school students are a lot more challenging than the shit in light novels.

>>582

Are you just trolling? If you want to talk in terms of themes or meaning, that might be arguable, but for a learner casual speech or slang can be just as difficult to comprehend/reproduce as classic literature.

From Spice and Wolf vol 9:
ただ、商品の良し悪しを選別して利益を上げる商人からすれば、そんな補修はきっと神様に祈るのと同じくらいの効果しか持たないだろうと思えた。

Now, I'm not saying this is a particularly difficult sentence, but I just opened a page and pulled something off. A sentence like this with multiple subordinate phrases will be plenty challenging to a new learner. Would you also say Harry Potter isn't worth reading? Because I'd rate it about the same difficulty as say, Kizumonogatari, having read both in Japanese.

>>580

No, it sounds strange if you switch the verb like that. You could say something like 大体はわかりますが、カタカナは苦手です。

>>584

You could also make it part of  a larger phrase, like カタカナはわかりませんけど、ひらがなならわかります(like the in the genki example)

>>583
In terms of just about everything aside from wanting to read something that has some minor association with anime or manga etc, novels are better idea. And its not like novels don't have "slang" or "casual speech", that's part of what a novel IS. Reading something from Dazai or Murakami or even Koubou (all of which can be handled with intermediate/intermediate-advanced Japanese and a dictionary), for example, you'll run into "real" casual speech. Light novels are by nature shorter, more compact, less thematic, and fit under a ceiling of content and difficulty. They're basically movie books. One light novel will read pretty much the same as another (obviously there are differences and unique examples but similarities are far more common). Opening yourself up to different works of literature, even at a beginner level (which are certainly available), is a more challenging, more rewarding experience. Obviously, if you just want to read LNs because LNs have an association with anime and you want to unite those different interests, go ahead. And obviously, any reading is good reading. But if you want to learn Japanese, you shouldn't limit yourself to LNs as the next natural step in reading comprehension.

>>586

I can agree with that, but it sounds to me like your entire image of "light novel" is Infinite Stratos and Oreimo. Maybe I'm wrong. Variety and exposure to a lot of things is important in language learning, in any case.

>>583
Not the same guy but you get a lot of exposure to kanji in modern novels too. It can be difficult to go through but once you start to catch on to meanings and stuff your compensation and kanji will get a major boost.

>>588

There are plenty of Kanji in anything you read. Kanji is not the biggest barrier to reading comprehension beyond an intermediate level.

>>589 again

Wait, when you say "modern novels" are you referring to young adult stuff (LNs) or more "serious" works? Either way, in my experience learning kanji will come no matter what you read as long as they're not explicitly children's books. Even most RPGs past the SNES era make heavy use of kanji.

>>581
Rikaichan won't help you read novels because it's a browser plug-in that only works on plain text. Exception: Finding 青空文庫 TXT editions of what you want to read, but >99% of light novels raws are in jpeg format. Of course, if you actually plan on buying physical copies, rikaichan won't do you much good there either. Exception 2: Theoretically, you could OCR the scans, but few OCR programs (if any) can handle vertical text orientation, much less sort out the ruby text.

I dived directly into light novels after realizing that most "intro to japanese grammar" textbooks suck shit. I could get maybe 70-80% of what's going on just by breaking down the sentences and writing down words I didn't know. Anything I couldn't look up, I asked other people (forums/irc), searched Google (figure out by context), or just kept going (it's okay to not know 100.0% of every word you see).

tldr you learn more when outside your comfort zone etc so just go for it.

>>591
Very strongly agree with this. A lot of people seem to think the textbook ladder just keeps going up into infinity. That's just not the way language learning works. You won't gain any real proficiency until you start working things out directly.

>>591

So is that to say I shouldn't bother with doing the dictionary for X grammar books at all after finishing Genki? Or am I missing your point?

I definitely want to jump straight into more difficult stuff, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm missing out on something by not getting most of the sentences.

As for the guy who seems to have something against LNs, I don't plan on just reading LNs, but in all honesty, that's the biggest goal I have for learning Japanese; it's probably lame as Hell, but it's keeping me going, so I can't complain.

>>593
Yes, don't bother "doing" them, in the sense that you shouldn't try to memorize everything inside (because you will probably forget them anyway unless you see them "in action" in-text). Dictionaries are simply reference tools to look up specific things. That said, if you want to read them from cover to cover, there's no harm in doing so either.

The great thing about books is that you can read them multiple times. That sounds kind of silly, but hey, I try to re-read everything at least once because I always find myself noticing details that I neglected for whatever reason the first time around.

Oh, and this post is written by someone who was also motivated to learn Japanese because of light novels. Still a long way to go before I can read without putting up a bit of a fight, but I'm getting there.

>>594

Alright, thanks, that's definitely changed how I plan on doing it. Have you found any tips on actually looking up grammar points? It seems rather abstract at the moment, and the best thing I can come up with is simply googling the part of the sentence I don't know, and hoping I find more of the same with English translations, but I doubt that will get me particularly far.

>>595
jisho
weblio (kokugojiten and english)
ALC

These three will basically cover most grammar. For more abstract stuff, google does a decent but not always satisfactory job.

>>596

But how are they used? Is it just like I had anticipated: typing in the part I didn't understand, and abstracting from the English translations? Thanks either way.

>>597
Dictionaries aren't going to learn grammar for you. Type in what you don't know, read weblio to see the Japanese explanation, jisho to find its meaning, and ALC to see examples with English translations. That's what I do anyway.

>>598

Thanks a lot anon. Appreciate the help.

Does anyone know some good textbooks/learning materials to get to s JLPT1 level, from a JLPT2 level?