日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 6

If you have a question about the language, ask it and fellow 4channers might see it and answer it for you.

Japanese - Ask questions thread
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1174719097/1-40

日語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread2 質問
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1206158123/1-40

日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 3
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1267485093/1-40

日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 4
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1302350850/1-40

日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 5
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1330050873/1-40

I guess I should just put the links.
http://boards.4chan.org/r/res/10098918
http://boards.4chan.org/vp/res/9584647#p9586480

>>640

I'm really confused what you're asking for here. Are you asking us to translate pokemon or just to write a message saying you want to translate pokemon this way?

The issue seems pointless to me. I've played through both black and white in Japanese, and I'm not seeing what your issue is. Who cares if they changed shell blade to razor shell? "foul play" is as good a translation for イカサマ as anything. (this is just me looking at random posts in that /vp/ thread).

>>642
So this prompted me to start looking into these issues specifically. And for what it's worth, there aren't any double entendres on the ferris wheel that I can see at all. I wasn't able to find an official translation, but the Japanese all seems fairly straightforward. Holding hands does not count as a double entendre. Cuddling to stay warm is also not a double entendre. Crying about a former lover is not a double entendre. I was not able to find one solid example. I would even hesitate to call them "innuendo", they're at the level of Saturday morning cartoon romance. I don't know what the translation did, but many people seem to act like there's some big cover up for a hidden dirty sex message or something.

Also, フラッシュ does not have anything to do with "flashing" in Japanese. That was not intended to be a dirty joke. That is probably why they changed it, so people would not think that's what it was. Maybe there were better ways than changing it to something unrelated, but considering that translating "literally" in this case would make a joke that didn't exist before, I can understand the change.

Basically your gripe comes down to random names they changed. I don't see how this warrants a retranslation at all. I'm sorry they used synonyms for move names that you didn't like.

What is the normal word used for "common"? I can many times work around it and use something like "普通なら" but some sentences just doens't work(stir).

Like:
Bowing when expressing gratitude is much more common overseas.
Vending machines may be more common than I had thought.

>>644
一般　or 一般的

>>643
You'll need some context for the "former lover" thing. You can go on "dates" on the Ferris Wheel. If you chose the male character in BW, you'd get different Ferris Wheel dates than if you chose the female. What makes this notable is that if you go during the summer, instead of a girl being there, it's a big Hiker named Natsumi (the same guy you're talking about). He doesn't appear for the girl. Anyway, while you're on the Ferris Wheel, he makes small talk. I think it's something like "Ho ho... sure is humid, like a sauna, boy, I tell you what! You're really sweatin', boy... By the way... boy... you ever had a lover?". When you go back, his dialogue changes, and he asks if you want to "make a summer memory together" or something.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/989552-pokemon-black-version/58094326/644184618
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/989552-pokemon-black-version/58094326/644184618
http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E3%83%8A%E3%83%84%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF
When you play B2W2, you meet him at the Ferris Wheel again, but only if you're a girl. He remarks that you're not his type, and then goes on about the person he fell in love with on the Ferris Wheel two years ago during the summer. This is obviously the male character from BW. He then says something like "For a girl, you're a pretty good friend".

>>644
Or, depending on what you're saying, により多い. Although

癌が高齢者より若年者により多い
Cancer is more common in the young than it is in the elderly
ストレスを経験することは女性に多い
The experience of stress is more common in women

Both of the following can be translated as "Bowing when expressing gratitude is much more common overseas."

お礼する時には(感謝の気持ちを示す時）、お辞儀するのが海外で一般的なことである
お礼する時には、お辞儀するのが海外でより多く見られる（起こる）ことである

"Vending machines may be more common than I had thought.":

自動販売機は(私が)思ったより一般的かもしれない。
自動販売機は思ったより多いかもしれない

And then there are all the Nugget jokes throughout the series. In the Japanese version, Nuggets are called きんのたま (Golden Balls), which is apparently slang for testicles. There are often situations in the game where you find someone in a secluded area, and he'll offer you a Golden Ball, and then add that since he has two, he'll give you another. There's even a guy who calls himself Uncle Golden Balls who hides behind a tree.

In B2W2, if you choose the male and go to the Ferris Wheel during the summer, there's this woman. When you go on it with her, she comments on the heat, and how it's making her shirt sweaty and stick to her skin. She comments on you looking at her chest, then suggests you both take your shirts off. She ends the line with "After all, we're both guys, right?". You were led to believe that it was an attractive woman. Here's the sprite, just to show you.
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/2/20/Spr_BW_Nursery_Aide.png
Every single one you ever meet is female, except for this guy. While not every Ferris Wheel date is full of innuendo and double entendres, several are.

>>648
...who cares? What does this have to do with Japanese?

>>648
And I'm not trying to say that Pokémon is hardcore, or mature, or deep, or anything like that. I'm just saying that a lot of the little things in the game done for older players (innuendo, older player characters, Kanji support, etc.) are ignored by the new localization company TPCi. Although I do understand that last one couldn't have really translated over. TPCi removed the Game Corners in HGSS because they thought the gambling aspect should be removed in all localized versions, despite being a staple of the series. Game Freak decided not to add a Game Corner in BW or B2W2 because they knew it would just get removed everywhere except for Japan. They changed any situation that could be interpreted as "inappropriate". For example, changing the comment a girl makes about you possibly looking at her legs, or changing an old man's dialogue from "There sure are a lot of pretty women here!" to "There sure are a lot of strong Trainers here!". They removed every instance of the word "war" from Lt. Surge, despite the fact that he's a soldier. "He went into battle", which can easily be misinterpreted in Pokémon. They changed the name Green back to Blue, even after it had started to become the standard. Now we have huge arguments over which name is appropriate, because 2 characters share it. And then there's... the "stiltedness" of it all. If you compare Lt. Surge's GSC dialogue with his HGSS dialogue, you'll notice a weird change in tone.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lt._Surge#Quotes

TPCi is a crappy localization company. Pokémon is a game for all ages, not just children, yet they ignore the older fanbase. If it weren't for Game Freak and TPC, there probably wouldn't be age divisions for older players in the tournaments. Game Freak tries, but it just doesn't translate over often.

>>649
Well, I was asking earlier if someone could translate a message for me, so I could send it to Junichi Masuda, one of the higher-ups at Game Freak. He made a Twitter account for fan feedback. He can respond to English posts, but it takes him a bit longer, because he needs to translate them to Japanese, write his response, and then translate it to English. He even writes his own blog online, and translates (most) of the entries himself (it's a little Engrishy).
http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir_english/

Anyway, what I want to send him is a little too long for him to translate. That's why I wanted to ask someone to translate the message. I would then save it on an image (with the English text beside it), and post the link to it on his Twitter.

They have two scripts for BW and B2W2. One is Kana, the other is Kanji. What I was thinking of was a "Localized" and an "Unlocalized" option. After all, a pure translation must be done before localization starts, right? It exists somewhere, and it's totally possible to use it. "Localized" is the default, like Kana was, and "Unlocalized" is the optional one. It was just an idea, but I'm tired of learning names that sound totally appropriate, and then having them changed several months later, and being called a weeaboo if I ever use them again. I might as well see if I can change it.

>>643
>You'll need some context for the former lover thing

I was not talking about the hiker. I was talking about the older woman. Why do you assume I have no idea about the ferris wheel events? I looked them up.

>>648
Yes, and Japan also frequently makes jokes about balls in cartoons and so on. That isn't really appropriate here.

I still have no idea what they did with the ferris wheel events in English, but you're blowing this way out of proportion. The translation reads well and retains the story. They changed some names. They changed some dirty jokes that would not go over well (do you really think having an option to allow testicle jokes would fly with parents, even if it's marked "adult" or whatever?) and they scaled back some of the implications, I assume, I still don't know about that. Maybe you should mature a little bit before asking for these sorts of things.

>>652
I haven't seen the one about the older woman. So far, I've seen the ones with the return Natsumi and the trap.

I know that testicle jokes would not fly over here. It's not like it would matter anyway, because "Golden Ball" is a term that only really works in Japanese, and they changed it to "Nugget" here years ago.

The Ferris Wheel was changed so there weren't really any double entendres or innuendos. Natsumi, who was renamed to Andy, had his dialogue changed to make him afraid of heights. I don't know why, because most innuendo and double entendres fly over a kid's head. They're there to make subtle references and jokes that you can't really talk about out loud with kids. It just added to the overall atmosphere of the game.

When I play Pokémon now, I can't help but wonder what dialogue may be altered. It's like, I want to play the game as it was originally intended, but I can't really read Japanese (minus the Kana, but I'll be working on that). If I were to know it, I would have to import all future games (which costs more) and buy a Japanese 3DS because of the region-locking. This could get expensive and time-consuming. If I pirate the game, I may be able to use more accurate fan translations, but I lose functionality with a lot of features. I knew nothing could be done about it in the first four Generations of games, but now they have the ability to do something with two scripts. I've been in the ROM. I've extracted every text file, and there are two folders with the exact same dialogue in each, except one uses Kanji while the other uses Kana. I just figured since his Twitter was open to feedback, I would ask about the whole possibility of the "Localized/Unlocalized" feature. I don't know if it would work, but nothing would happen if I didn't try. I want to be able to use the name Achroma online without being called a weeaboo. Why should I just switch for a company that doesn't seem to care about the older part of the fanbase? And I want you to know, in case this is brought up, that I would do the same thing if this wasn't Japanese. I believe that a game should try to remain as true to its original version as possible when translating. Anything less just feels like... censorship to me.

I understand if no one wants to translate the message for me. I didn't expect everyone to instantly agree with my viewpoint. And  this is a thread for learning Japanese, not making translation requests, so it's my bad there. But if I have a chance, I'll go for it. I don't care how immature it makes me look.

>>653
I'll translate it. I don't give a fuck.

I just think you're making a big deal out of nothing. But I'll translate the shit out of whatever you want because I care about Japanese.

>>654
Okay, I'm just writing it up. It shouldn't take that much longer. I'll also include the Kana for the names if you need it.

Thank you so much.

>>655
I'll probably need the names and other details because I know jack shit about black and white.

>>656
http://pastebin.com/f25euJ4R
Achroma = アクロマ
Homika = ホミカ
Shizui = シズイ
Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 = ポケットモンスターブラック２・ホワイト２
Pokémon (standalone) = ポケモン
Isshu = イッシュ
Black and White = ブラック・ホワイト
Junichi Masuda = 増田 順一
The Pokémon Company International = The Pokémon Company International
TPCi = TPCi
Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji are written in their respective scripts, rather than all in Kanji.

Just ask me anything. I'll be back on tomorrow, but I've included my email address just in case. You can put any form of identification for yourself at the end of the message (if you're comfortable with that), because this would not be possible without you.

Is there anything else that you need to know?

Just finished the third paragraph. I'll do the rest when I get back from work.

>>658
Thanks once again.

Moot has recently died of a heart attack, spread the word.

>>659
I have those two little paragraphs at the end to do yet but I'm lazy.

When you use し to give reasons for something, do you have to explicitly give more than one reason, or can you just give one reason, using し, thus implying there are more? Kind of like how you use や in place of と?

>>662

Disregard this, I jumped the gun and didn't read ahead. Apologies.

>>661
Okay. No need to rush.

>>663
Short answer: yes.

LOLOLO I IS SATAN

...

>>664
Here you go:


こんにちは　増田さん、

先ず、画像へのリンクを付けて、申し訳ないです。ツイッターの投稿はこのような量の文字に対応できません。このアカウントを作成してくださった理由はファンのことを親しく知るようになることと、意見を集めることのためだと私は聞いたことがあるのです。それで、私はこの機会を生かさずに、何も投稿しなかったら、必ずそれを後悔します。ちなみに、私はブログの大ファンです。

私もポケモンのファンで、ポケモンのシリーズにおいて懸命な働きをしてくださって、感謝の言葉をお伝えしたいと思います。他の海外にいる成人ファンと同じように、新しく発売されるゲームは日本で初めて発表される瞬間から、アメリカに導入される時までずっと、ゲームの進歩を私は見守っています。どうなるかなあと予想するのをいつも楽しく思っています。ポケモンブラックとホワイト２は決して例外ではありません。今年も、私達ファンがイッシュに訪れさせて頂いて、新しいゲームの質について称賛の声しか聞いたことがないのです。

最近、アメリカ版のゲームについての新しい情報を知りました。私はいつも母語のバージョンでプレイするのが楽しみでなりません。しかしながら、全てのゲームのように、日本のオリジナルの名前に慣れてしまったために、英語版での名前を好まないかもしれないファンもいます。私も同じような意見を持っています。私を含め多くのファンが、アクロマ、シズイ、ホミカなどの名前に慣れてしまっています。

ブラックとホワイトから、大人っぽいキャラクターや漢字機能の導入で、貴社はより幅広い層へ顧客を広げようとしていると多くのファンは気づきました。ストーリーもより優先されるようになりました。残念なことに、これはアメリカ版の感じと少し違います。The Pokemon Company International(Tpci)は子供だけに集中しているような気がします。繊細な大人向けの冗談などが削除されると、もううんざりだと言う人もいます。

アメリカ版から、ひらがな・カタカナ・漢字機能が取り除かれたのですが、いうまでもなく、海外版にそういう機能を移さないのは当然です。私の理解するところなんですが、日本版では、一般的には、漢字は大人使用者のために使われ、ひらがなとカタカナの文字を使うのは子供が簡単に読めるためです。違う形で、海外版には同じような変換機能を実行させていただけないでしょうかと私は思いました。その違いは、「ローカライズバージョン」を「ローカライズではないバージョン」に切り替える設定を含むことです。「ローカライズではないバージョン」というのは、日本版の漢字機能と同じように、日本での発売を見守っていた大人使用者はローカライズではなかった名前やゲームの英語台本でプレイできるようになることです。一方、「ローカライズバージョン」は、いつもと同じです。子供にとって、ローカライズの名前はよりアピールするので、子供ファンは後者に引き付けられると私は思います。

私はローカライズの体験がないのですが、ゲームはローカライズされる前に、元の日本語台本は正確に普通の英語に翻訳されるだろうと思っています。その英語訳の台本が存在するとしたら、その元の訳をローカライズのために完全に書き直す代わりに、ポケモンの日本版の漢字機能の役割を果たさせるのでしょうか。
ご返事を頂くことができたら、嬉しいです。そして、この長文を時間を取って、読んでくださってありがとうございます。これはポケモンに夢中になっている外国人のファンからのメッセージです。よろしくお願いします。

>>668
Thanks so much. I really can't thank you enough.

>>668
But wouldn't you like any thanks in the message? I wouldn't feel right about not having you included at the end.

>>670
No, that's alright. If there's no cash or "officialdom" for my translations, I don't worry about putting my name on it.

>>671
Well, it's up now.
http://imgur.com/QKk7u,Ck7dU

Hey guys, I'm having trouble with a sentence:
意思が通じなさそう、という点において。

「通じなさそう」- what's that conjugation? It looks like 通じる + なさい + そう, but I'm not sure if そう is allowed to latch on なさい like that (if that even makes sense)
「点において」- "on the point?" (I'm guessing it's some kind of set phrase with an omitted verb...?)

Context: Narrator is climbing up the suicide deterrence fence on a rooftop because she wants, well, kill herself. But then she notices a strange girl staring at her from the base of the fence. The full paragraph goes: ビクリと体を震わす私を見上げ、まばたきひとつしない少女は無表情のままに小首をかしげる。猫みたいだ。意思が通じなさそう、という点において。

She's like a cat, in the sense that it doesn't seem (my) intentions will be understood.

That's the liberal translation. ない takes さ when using そう in the observation sense. ない＞なさ＞なさそう. 

において "with respect to", "with regards to", "considering ~", etc.

>>674

I should also mention nothing is omitted, just inverted. it's the same as saying 意思が通じなさそう、という点において猫みたいだ except that it flows much more smoothly and doesn't sound as boring.

>>674 >>675
I see! Thanks a ton, that really helps me change my 'rigid' reading habits.

最近、自分さえよければいいという考えの人が増えている.

I'm having a hard time understanding this sentence. It's the よければいい that's bothering me. How does this work?

>>677
自分はいい is a common phrase to mean "oneself is fine/good/well off"

自分はいいけれど周りの人は迷惑, etc. In your example they're talking about people who are self centered/ don't care about others.

>677

Here's some examples from ALC: http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E8%87%AA%E5%88%86%E3%81%95%E3%81%88%E3%82%88%E3%81%91%E3%82%8C%E3%81%B0%E3%81%84%E3%81%84

自分さえよければいいやという感覚が強いのです。
They have a strong sense that anything is all right as long as they are all right themselves.

教育現場では、「授業中に勝手な行動を取る生徒が多い」「自分さえよければいいという考えが広がっている」と教員から悲鳴が上がっているという。
Teachers are reporting an increasing number of students who refuse to do what they are told during class hours and act in a selfish manner.

>>677
What did you not understand? It'd be easier to explain if you had typed out an estimation. Also, context.

自分さえよければ|いい
Recently there's been an increasing amount of people thinking it's fine if only they themselves are doing good/fine.

いい = 良い = よい