If it didn't get remade, you guys realize it would just result in a million different people making their own topic for questions, right? It being condensed in one thread is a good thing.
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Anonymous2008-03-23 7:35
毎日、何時間勉強しますか。
Is this "What time do you study everyday?" or "how many hours do you study every day?" because:
毎日、何時に起きますか。
This is asking me what time, obviously.
たいてい何時間ぐらい寝ますか。
And I'd assume this is a way of saying "Around what time do you usually go to bed?" rather than "How many hours do you usually sleep (about)?"
But the first question makes more sense if it's asking me how long I study for :/. I don't know. (I'll probably come to the answer by myself and realise how stupid I look)
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Anonymous2008-03-23 9:00
毎日、何時間勉強しますか。 Is this "What time do you study everyday?" or "how many hours do you study every day?" because:
何時間 = how many hours?
毎日、何時に起きますか。 This is asking me what time, obviously.
何時 = what time?
This 何時(nanji) compound can been read "nanji" or "itsu" or even "nandoki" according to rikai-chan but in my limited experience itsu is usually hiragana and means "when" while nanji is kanji and means "what time".
たいてい何時間ぐらい寝ますか。
何時間ぐらい = (about) how many hours?
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Anonymous2008-03-23 14:09
>>11
Ah, I get it now. It's my fault for not looking at my damn book for a week.
For the reply, could I write something like 「三時間勉強します。」or am I just making shit up now? Thank you very much anon, by the way.
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Anonymous2008-03-23 15:51
Seeking definitions for oni, onisan, onesan, oneesan, oniisan. If oni means demon (as I had thought to believe), how does onisan mean older brother? Or am I reading something wrong? Keep in mind I'm talking about romanizations. Thank you.
>>If oni means demon (as I had thought to believe), how does onisan mean older brother?
Ever heard of "words that are pronounced the same but mean different things"? Also, big brother is oniisan. NOT onisan.
>>Keep in mind I'm talking about romanizations.
Um, how does that relate to anything?
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Anonymous2008-03-23 17:01
>>13
it makes sense if you start looking at the kanji (is this what you meant by 'talking about romanization'?)
oni (deamon) is 鬼
ani (brother) is 兄
then you add the honorifics to make
oniisan お兄さん
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Anonymous2008-03-23 17:05
>Ever heard of "words that are pronounced the same but mean different things"? Also, big brother is oniisan. NOT onisan.
The word you are looking for is homonym
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Anonymous2008-03-23 17:17
when deciding to use kanji or hiragana, i thought it was chosen baised on target audience (eg write out the more obscure/ higher level words/kanji)
but more and more I seem to be comming across what seems to me like random use of hiragana.
eg: I got the game 燃えろ！熱血リズム魂 押忍！闘え！応援団２ and right off the bat I see
ひとりで応援
why would a extremely simple word be in hiragana and a more complex one be in kanji??
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Anonymous2008-03-23 17:20
Where can I learn the weird kanji radicals used in calligraphy that no one can read well? For instance, in 月 we might see something like a rectangle with the bottom gone, and a Z inside. This is an easier example, but some I just can't decipher. I don't have an example on me right now though..
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Anonymous2008-03-23 19:26
>>17
>when deciding to use kanji or hiragana, i thought it was chosen baised on target audience
This is one of general rules so has exceptions. Using kanji can also add intelligence, manliness or other characteristics, depending on words.
As for the example, the game title conveys an aggressive spirit and manliness in a funny or exaggerated way. But ひとり can be in hiragana without losing much aggressiveness. I may be totally wrong, but maybe that's because ひとり is a common 訓読み word (this usually means not-Chinese-imported), and has the neutral meaning.
燃えろ and 闘え also are 訓読み words but they have aggressive meanings so they fit better in kanji, especially in the game title. Conversely, 応援 (ou-en) is an 音読み word and has a kanji-sh meaning, so only games for kids or loli-featured hentai would write it in hiragana.
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Anonymous2008-03-23 21:30
>>19
thanks, are you talking about the kun (japanese) and on (chinese) readings? (I'm still fairly new to kanji)
eg: it is unacceptable to write a word that uses on reading in hiragana? aka 日本人 uses on readings so you would never write it out?
I just thought it was strange since 一人 was one of the first things i learned.
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Anonymous2008-03-23 21:41
>>3otsu 乙 — Thanks. Contraction of and kanji misconversion of お疲れさま.
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Anonymous2008-03-24 1:00
>>20
Yes. I'm talking about the kun- and on-readings. It's not always unacceptable to write on-reading words in hiragana, but I think on-reading words tend to be in kanji. Probably this is because in general on-reading words sound more elegant or educated. Of course, there are lots of exceptions. This might be a bit similar to the relation of Germanic English words to Latinate vocabulary in a sense.
I can't give rigorous rules on this matter because I'm not a qualified teacher or linguist. But I (a native Japanese speaker) feel most of on-reading words fit with kanji in many situations, and kun-reading vocabulary is often acceptable in hiragana. For example, お疲れさま and おつかれさま are both acceptable. But ひとりでおうえん is quite childish.
On a side note, ひとり can be either 一人 (one person) or 独り (alone), so sometimes it should be in kanji to make the meaning clear.
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Anonymous2008-03-24 15:21
some fag spammed a million threads and knocked this off front page, so bump
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Anonymous2008-03-25 3:49
How do I say "per" in Japanese
The sentence I'm trying to write is along the lines of, "It's just two days, but it's 1.5 hours per day[of those two]"
I have
ただ二日だけど、１時３０分ぐらい＿＿＿＿
I'm not sure how I would attempt this or where 'per' would go, also if my sentence sucks and is incorrect, it wouldn't surprise me.
thanks.
By the way, what does ITT mean here? Like attention?
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Anonymous2008-03-25 11:39
>>25
>"It's just two days, but it's 1.5 hours per day[of those two]"
If I were to say this in Japanese, I would say,
"まあ二日間なんだけど、一日あたり１時間半です。" or, if in a formal situation, "二日間ではありますが、一日につき一時間半です。"
Basically, "A per B" is either "BあたりA," "BにつきA" or "BにA." In many cases, I think these are interchangeable and chosen depending on the rhythm of the sentence. But sometimes "BにA" could be ambiguous so I recommend you always use either "BあたりA" or "BにつきA" unless you're pretty sure "に" doesn't cause any ambiguity.
When A and B are numerical quantity, "A per B" can be, in most case, the said three types of translation. But this is an exception:
50 miles per hour (50mph) -> 時速５０マイル
Also, if B refers to an action as in "per drive" and "per move", it is often translated as 度に (tabi-ni). For exapmle,
It costs 5 dollars per use. -> 使う度に５ドルかかる
Also, >>26 said "it's just ~" is たったの〜. But I feel the exact meaning of the English phrase falls into somewhere between "たったの〜," "ほんの〜," and "まあ〜," and I think "まあ〜" is the closest. For instance, if you want to say, "It's just a matter of preference," then it should be まあ好みの問題です。It sounds funny if you say たったの好みの問題です。or ほんの好みの問題です。
Quick question... If I were to go into a shop in Japan, how polite would the clerk be to me?
Would he be saying things like あなたを助けられますか。
or would it be more along the lines of あなたを助けられるございますか。
or am I completely fucking this up and it would be something entirely different?
Please don't be too harsh on my grammar. I've never learned about ございます.
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Anonymous2008-03-28 9:22
>>32
Forget that question. Can somebody just tell me how a clerk would say "Can I help you?" in Japanese?
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Anonymous2008-03-28 13:06
>>33
hmm... well, generally the clerics are harassed by retards spamming ``heal plzzzzzzzzz'' so they don't usually ask to help
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Anonymous2008-03-28 15:19
How are you supposed to pronounce sounds like this? クァ? Isn't it just like カ？ Or is it more like クア? if so, seems pointless.
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Anonymous2008-03-28 21:30
>>33
"May I help you?" is "いらっしゃいませ。 なにかお探しでしょうか。" The first half is a kind of formal greeting, so you don't need to care about grammar. It's "pleased to see you (again)" typically used by a clerk, shop keeper and whatnot. A literal translation of the latter part is "Are you looking for something?" so it means "May I help you?"
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Anonymous2008-03-28 22:06
>>35
I'm not sure if there are official rules about pronunciations of imported words. But as far as I know, it seems to depend on ages, communities the speakers belong to and such. Generally, if he is
young: similar to or same as クワ
old or not good at English: クア
very old and not familiar with imported words: カ
For example, older Japanese may become puzzled when they are to pronounce クァッドコア (quad-core), and maybe they say either "クアッドコア" or "カッドコア". But a younger tech-savvy may pronounce it like "クワッド-コア" or "quado-コア".
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Anonymous2008-03-29 0:23
>>37
I see, no idea where the W comes in when it's a 'Ku' and small 'A' seems like it should be クヮ
What I mentioned though I didn't think was actually a sound, I thought it was just a weird way to type to make it seem strange or something. Maybe like if someone was yelling and wrote アアアァァァ, what would the ァ do when it already has the big ア preceding it
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Anonymous2008-03-29 2:18
>>38
Maybe you're talking about onomatopoeia? If so, pronounce it in whatever way you feel is right.
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Anonymous2008-03-30 0:10
How would I ask if somebody knows where I am?
I pulled this out of my ass with the help of Babel Fish:
「どこにいると知っていることが確信しているか。」
Is that right, sort of right, or horribly wrong?
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Anonymous2008-03-30 1:26
>>40
there is a shorter, less complex was to say that.
これは何所ですか --> what place is this?
or
どこにいますか ---> where am i?
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Anonymous2008-03-30 3:43
>>41
In the situation I have, I need to ask a person if they know where they're going, so that wouldn't work. Thanks, though!
halp!
pretty fluent in my Japanese reading, writing and speaking, but when people talk i cant understand 3/4 of what is being said. Its like they don't use some particles or something
eg 飯を食べことが好きです becomes 飯食べこと好きです
Listening is probably one of my stronger points, you get better from listening and more listening, you won't get this from studying by yourself, or talking very rarely in a class with kids who suck at Japanese.
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Anonymous2008-04-01 4:38
>>48
true
i actually noticed it while watching a documentary.
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Anonymous2008-04-01 8:30
How do I learn bushu?
my teacher said that we must know all radicals of kanji for exam.
this is nightmare mode!!! :(
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Anonymous2008-04-01 20:40
>>50
This probably covers most of the important ones 廾廴弋辷癶亅丶个｜忄犭彳氵冫勹冂匚凵冂厂广冖宀亠
Learn those and you'll be fine I guess? Do you got to learn their name as well? Or just how to write them? Heisig I know focuses heavily on radicals, but by the time you learn all radicals you'll know all kanji as it applies everything as you learn it.
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Anonymous2008-04-03 5:54
what the shit does たん mean?
just another title like ちゃん, くん、さん ect
im angry because i couldn't find the answer in any text book
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Anonymous2008-04-04 16:55
I'm trying to understand the conditional tense and "if".
(this is all self-study, so I've no text books to work with, just my own observations of how I think it works):
チーズケーキを持ったならば, 食べたら
If I had cheese cake, I would eat it.
I'm probably doing it wrong. Though, really I'm confused when I should be using nara and naraba (I see 'nara' used for single nouns and 'naraba' for phrases... but "必要" (hitsuyou - necessary) doesn't follow this rule (hitsuyou naraba...).
Also, out of curiosity, is there anyway to say "or" in Japanese? It's not a particle so much as I know.
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Anonymous2008-04-04 17:09
>>56
I may as well tack on one more question to that:
Do Japanese use "if, then" statements (often, anyway)? If so, would I use "dakara" for then?
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Anonymous2008-04-04 17:46
>>56
Doesn't work like that
What you're saying is essentially
If I held cheese cake, then if eat.
A better way to say it might be
[私は]チーズケーキがあれば、食べます
>>57
All the time, but だから is not for "if then"
It's more along the lines of because
I like X because X is fun, so in other words, reasonからresult.
The だ on だから is only there for na-adjectives and nouns.
Read the link I gave, it goes over the really basic stuff like this too
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Anonymous2008-04-04 18:09
>>58
ah, thanks. I suppose I should have known to refer back to that site.
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Anonymous2008-04-04 21:22
>>56
Just a general comment, but for self-study especially you should have a textbook to help you. Tae Kim's website is fine but for a deeper understanding I once again recommend a textbook.
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Anonymous2008-04-05 5:11
>>56
か = or
there are other ways but I'm too lazy to think of any.
eg:
りんご”か”いちご apple or strawberry
ittekuru is what people usually say when they're going somewhere but will be back. i think brb is much more modern lingo than that though, so dont really know.
>>70 >>72
wa is used mostly for women
na is used mostly for men
naa expresses motion
(I don't recommend using these two at the bottom, you might sound like an anime fag, but they're good to know, they're also mostly used by men)
zo emphasis on one's opinion or judgment
ze elicits an agreement
I'm sure there's more but I can't really think of any now
I was wondering if you had any advice on learning the language?
I've started, and currently only know basic introductions and 10 hiragana characters.
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Anonymous2008-04-10 23:33
>>78
Figdell, I am not studying Japanese, but I saw an excellent book titled "Japanese Grammar" in the Barron's Notes series for $6.99. I'm sure that if you read it, it will help you out quite a bit.
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Anonymous2008-04-11 5:27
>>78
learn all hiragana and katakana, and learn it well, then go to http://www.guidetojapanese.org/ and read the whole entire site, then/when/if you complete this, come back for new device as this should keep you busy
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Fidgell2008-04-11 8:33
Thanks you! ^_^
I'll definitely be sure to use it. Right now, I've gotten to learning about 15 hiragana characters, but not so well. x-x But I just know I have to work hard.
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Anonymous2008-04-11 15:35
>>80
For new device? Man I must have been really tired when I wrote that.
I mean new advice
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Anonymous2008-04-13 3:56
recently my font has changed into a more fancier hand writing style font. I have no idea why this happened and it sucks
Not only does it make the strokes harder to see, but it's fucking with the radicals too
in example, 神
I see it as 示申 rather than ネ申
anyone know how to make it change back to whatever it was? I'm tired of this fail font.
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Anonymous2008-04-13 15:10
I've got a request for you bi/multilingual guys. I'm transferring a video to Youtube, and since the video is 14 minutes, I need to make a screen that says "Please switch videos for part 2" in both English and Japanese.
So, can one of you please translate "Please switch videos for part 2"?
I have discovered an amazing site. Turn the volume for your computer ON, and go to http://blocked.on.nimp.org with Internet Explorer. After going there with Internet Explorer, go there with Mozilla Firefox.
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Anonymous2008-04-13 17:05
>>83
nevermind, I fixed it. It was firefox showing it weird, and I changed the font from fixedsys to the MS one
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Anonymous2008-04-14 23:33
>>85
Formal: 続きはpart2でご覧になれます。(You may watch the latter half in Part 2.)
Neutral: part2に切り替えてください。(Switch videos for part 2.)
Informal: 後半はpart2で！(Don't miss part 2!)
People say there's a difference but I'm not really noticing it. What screams out anime-speak?
Now I know for some anime characters they have signature sayings like de gozaimasu/desu~/nano/etc but that's mostly a girl thing for anime anyways, and it's not like everyone does that, so you wouldn't learn it from them regardless. As for random dialect, I've heard stuff like なんでやねん on real life japanese TV where it was just thrown in randomly too..
so what is it that make people sound like they're speaking animeish and how can I avoid it?
Oh and I know to avoid kissama, this is really the only thing I can think of, although I guess it's in RL movies and stuff too. Temee I see a lot on the internet, so I don't think it's just anime faggotry, but maybe it's borderline.
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Anonymous2008-04-16 19:27
この支配からの卒論
I think it's some sort of proverb, but I can't figure it out and most of the sites I find searching for it seem to be related to a visual novel by the same name. Anyone know what it actually means?
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Anonymous2008-04-16 19:29
この支配からの卒論
I think it's a proverb or something, but I can't find much of anything on it (that isn't related to some VN by the same name, anyway). Anybody know what it means?
So there is this phrase that I use, but never really thought about what it meant... ～の中で
more specifically, what does something like 難しさの中で mean exactly?
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Anonymous2008-04-27 2:41
I've noticed different font in Japanese often have some strokes missing or just different
例:画might not connect to the top, or 糸 might just have three strokes at the bottom rather than looking like 小
hell I think 継 can even be missing the 乙 radical in the middle sometimes (or maybe that's just handwriting, I forget)
Is this very common stuff? Or is that font just really garbage and doesn't follow the mainstream way? I hope the latter because one stroke can already change a kanji..
What's the Japanese word for "to get older"?
I know "toshi-yori" so can I say "toshi wo yoru"?
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Anonymous2008-04-28 4:17
>>106
年をとる (toshi wo toru) is more popular. Alternatively you can say "toshi ga yoru," not "toshi wo yoru." But "yoru" has slightly negative connotations when used with "toshi" while "toru" is neutral. So you may become wise when you toshi wo toru, but you may become forgetful when your toshi ga yoru.
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Anonymous2008-04-29 2:36
If a person dies, to they still take the verb いる(to be)？
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Anonymous2008-04-29 20:38
hala bubla?
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Takkaa2008-04-30 0:43
Yes, dead people still take the verb of existence いる
its actually quite funny. There are actually different counters for how the bodies are prepared for funeral as well.
apparently taxi's take iru as well... whats with that?
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takka2008-04-30 14:14
Are you sure its the same Iru? Iru can also be neccessary or the need of somthing as in
タクシーがいる
and with the kanji
タクシーが要る
meaning taxis are needed.
I have a question of my own - in regards to some japanese slang
what is チョベリバMK5
I know チョベリバ is like 最低 or 最悪 but i don't understand the reference to MK5, nor do i understand what MK5 is. Since an Otaku said is i'm assuming its a game or anime - but still i don't know why it is referenced.
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Anonymous2008-04-30 20:14
>>112
MK5 is a sort of acronym of マジで切れる５秒前 (Maji de Kireru 5 byoumae), which means "I'm steaming mad" or "I'm gonna be mad."
This blog is about Japanese slang that the author (he's Japanese)
thinks anime fans would want to know: http://bangin.wordpress.com/
Also, if you're already good at Japanese, this site may be quite helpful: http://zokugo-dict.com/
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takka2008-04-30 21:48
Thanks :D
i already use http://zokugo-dict.com/ occasionally but i didn't think MK5 was anything but a weird show/game so i didn't try to look it up in a dictionary >.<
and thanks for the suggestion of the slang-blog
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Anonymous2008-04-30 23:32
>>112
no as in to say "there is a taxi over there"
i think it is referring more to the driver of the taxi rather then the car itself
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Anonymous2008-05-01 12:36
>>108
No. You probably wouldn't use the verb at all any longer considering it's dead. If you want to talk about the body, you would use "aru". And if it's about its spirit, you would use iru.
This iru/aru stuff is not as clear-cut as you might think.
I was taught to say something like
物が一つある
but I have seen things like
一つの物がある
My instructor tells me to never use the latter, is it straight up wrong/improper/impolite/my instructor is retarted?
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Anonymous2008-05-02 22:48
>>118
it because 物がある a verb meaning "to judge" or "judge strongly"
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Anonymous2008-05-03 0:21
>>119
OK, sorry i came up with a bad example.
What i was trying to get at was can you use the format counterのitem
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Anonymous2008-05-03 0:51
>>118
Both sentences are grammatically correct, but their meanings are slightingly different. The difference are so subtle that literal translation into English often loses the nuance.
I think your instructor taught you an err-on-the-right-side strategy. The former sentence structure is neutral and virtually always fits in. You can specify the implication to some extent by using the latter structure. But it may sound odd if the specified implication doesn't match the context.
I can't verbalize the nuance so I just give examples:
If you say 物が一つある, then the listener may say "then?" But if 一つの物がある is used, the lister may feel "like what?"
So, when you start a conversation by 窓が一つある (I see a window), it can go in any direction. But if you say 一つの窓がある, then the following sentence most likely describe the window.
What does ちょ mean? Often paired with wwwww. Obviously it's for something funny.
Is it derived from chotto?
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Anonymous2008-05-05 4:45
How common are the jouyou kanji for chinese? Like do they make up the most popular ones too? ie, does the jouyou make up of about at least 90% chinese kanji that is encountered?
Or is it probably around 50% or something low
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Anonymous2008-05-05 12:51
>>124
Apparently ちょwwwww is the extremely shortened form of ちょっと待てwwwww, which means "Wait. For real?" or simply "Lol."
>>125
Not sure if I got your question right. But as far as I know, most, if not all of modern Japanese kanji are different from characters of Mandarin and Cantonese. Kanji are derived from old Chinese characters but they have developed independently to some extent and diverged.
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Anonymous2008-05-05 14:15
>>126
Uhh I wouldn't say most if not all, a lot of them are the same
>>127
Later part of >>126 may be confusing so I clarify it a bit.
As you know, Japanese and Chinese characters are not just alphabets. They also convey meanings themselves.
Japanese kanji and traditional Chinese shape-wise share a lot of characters while the contemporary simplified Chinese have many distinctly shaped characters.
On the other hand, kanji have assimilated to the Japanese language since their introduction to Japan so that the range of the meaning and connotations of a given character has diverged while the core meanings of most kanji remain the original.
So many Japanese kanji look the same as their equivalents of traditional Chinese, and certain percent of the simplified Chaises have same shapes as modern Japanese kanji. Main meanings of Japanese kanji are same as the original or quite similar. However, most of them have at least a slight difference in the ranges of their implication when compared to contemporary Chinese.
>>136
Strikethrough (also called strikeout) is a typographical presentation of words with a horizontal line through the center of them.
It signifies one of two meanings. In ink-written, typewritten, or other non-erasable text, the words are a mistake and not meant for inclusion. When used on a computer screen, however, it indicates recently-deleted information. (The difference is that in the latter situation, the struck-through text previously was a legitimate part of the document.)
How do you know when 全然 is negative or positive? I asked someone and she wasn't too sure, and she said that old japanese 全然 is always negative, but the new one(?) can be positive or negative. Problem is, you can say stuff like only 全然 and nothing more and it can be taken negatively. So how do you know?
>>141
Mostly, what 142 said, but if it is 'associated' with a negative verb (or associated with a implied negative verb ... thats where it gets confusing), it is negative.
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Anonymous2008-05-09 0:55
>>141
In general, 全然 is used as a short one word reply only when standard grammar and word usages can determine the omitted part.
For example, if you're asked "何か問題がありますか。 (Is there any problem?)" and you say "全然。", then you always mean "全然問題ありません。 (Not at all.)" because "全然問題あります。" doesn't make sense in the standard Japanese language. Certainly native speakers sometimes say "全然問題あります。", meaning "There IS a problem" in an informal conversation, but this possibility is ruled out when you just answer "全然。" because it is not a standard usage.
By the same token, when you're asked "どう思いますか。 (What do you think of this?)," you never say "全然。" because no standard grammar or usages can tell what you mean.
As for the connotations of 全然, there is much more than what she said (I'd say she is wrong). Roughly speaking, it was either positive or negative until about 50 years ago, then it lost certain usages (still could be used in a positive sense in a restricted way). But recently the lost affirmative usages revived, especially among young generations, in a slightly different way as in 50 years ago.
For instance, "全然間違っていない (It is absolutely correct)." has a positive meaning but this has long been accepted as a standard usage. "全然おいしい" is an example of the revived usages. This was not strange or anything and meant "delicious," but strict grammar of contemporary Japanese forbids to use 全然 without ない. But now it is acceptable as an informal usage and means "Yummy!"
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Anonymous2008-05-09 5:11
thanks for the help
also it wouldn't surprise me if she was wrong, she wasn't too sure herself.
what does っています mean?
Ive seen it like 1000 times but never worked out its meaning
also how do i express excess?
eg: too big, too loud etc
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Anonymous2008-05-10 7:27
>>150
>what does っています mean?
Needs whole sentence to translate.
>also how do i express excess?
Put すぎる to the root of an adjective:
too big = 大きすぎる (大きい+すぎる)
too loud = うるさすぎる (うるさい+すぎる)
Sometimes すぎる is written in kanji as 過ぎる. So "too sad" can be 悲しすぎる.
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Anonymous2008-05-10 14:31
～ています Is the verb て with います/いる attached to it, depending on how the verb, っ might be before it.
It's an enduring state, like 'ing'
走る「はしる」 To run
走っています「はしっています」 running
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Anonymous2008-05-10 14:42
>>152
Ugh, ignore my shitty grammar, just woke up.
～ています Is the verb て form with います/いる attached to it, depending on what type of verb it is, っ might be before て (e.g.る/む/ぬ).
Is it just me or do all Japanese make weak sneezes like mice? You can't even tell it's a sneeze half the time if you even hear it. If I tried to block a sneeze like that I'd probably just burst a vain.
I'm looking into buying an electronic dictionary for when I'm in Japan for a year and I want to get a nice one.
I prefer looking up kanji with a stylus (I know the stroke orders so no problem) and so far, casio seems to be the best choice but I'm not sure.
but there's tons of versions and I wouldn't know which one to get.
Does anyone know about any good electronic dictionaries or this brand in particular? Can you jump to let's say, any Japanese word that it uses to explain another word?
Also how do they deal with multiple readings? If I looked up something like 己 would I be able to tell that it is most likely おのれ?
thanks
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Anonymous2008-05-17 20:26
Me again, now that I think about it, I'm open on the idea of getting a PDA instead because I would really like a program such as anki on it as well
how do the dictionaries for PDAs handle up to a electronic dictionary? Any suggestions?
thanks
You don't need an expensive machine to run these. They're fine on my low-end Z22.
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Anonymous2008-05-18 20:31
What does ゆっくりしていってね fad mean
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Anonymous2008-05-19 4:39
Literally it means "Pleas make yourself at home."
Apparently it welcomes posters/lurkers to a thread. It's already so rampant no one knows when it was made by whom for what.
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Anonymous2008-05-19 13:40
I always thought it meant something like please stick it in slowly
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Anonymous2008-05-20 2:20
Hi Everyone,
How do I translate the following sentence structures to Japanese.
(the context)
A is like B.
A looks like B. (physical appearance, narrow, tall, etc)
A feels like B. (soft, smooth, etc)
A tastes like B.
A sounds like B. (music, noises, etc)
A smells like B.
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Anonymous2008-05-20 8:26
>>163
Translation doesn't work like that; it all depends on what/who A and B are and what situation you are in. Probably the best I can do is give the most likely structure for each listed case so that native Japanese speakers can understand what you're trying to say. Note that you may sound funny or childish in some situations.
A is like B: AはBみたいです
A looks like B: AはBのように見えます
A feels like B: AはBのような感触がします
A tastes like B: AはBのような味がします
A sounds like B: AはBのように聞こえます
A smells like B: AはBのような臭いがします
Are you guys okay with Japanese pronunciation rules?
You only seem to mind grammar and translations.
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Anonymous2008-05-21 14:27
>>166
Japanese isn't like Chinese. The pronunciation is really easy. The only thing you need to worry about is the R, but even if you say it wrong, people should be able to understand you fine.
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Anonymous2008-05-21 22:21
Hey guys, I don't plan on learning Japanese any time soon, but what is the difference between "Watashi wa" and "Watashi wo"? It's something like "I am" vs. "You are", right?
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Anonymous2008-05-21 23:04
>>168
watashi means I/me, wa makes it the topic, wo makes it the direct object.
so: *watashi wa* anata wo tabeteiru (I am eating you)
vs: anata wa *watashi wo* tabeteiru (you are eating me)
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Anonymous2008-05-21 23:05
>>169
to clarify the watashi wo is the 'me' part, not the you are part
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Anonymous2008-05-22 0:50
Is there a rule when two on-yomi kanji combine and they merge readings, like 作曲 is sakkyoku not sakukyoku. I kind of realized I can usually guess them too even if I've never seen or heard them read so there's got to be a rule.
Now that I think about it, is it when the last syllable's first letter matches up with the upcoming kanji's first letter?
Are there any exceptions or anything missed?
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Anonymous2008-05-22 4:01
>>171
There are rules about 促音 (sokuon) in the said on-yomi combinations. But the rules stem from old Chinese pronunciations which are no longer used in modern Japanese or Chinese, so they are very complicated and not practical.
If you want an in-a-nutshell explanation, it may be helpful to know that it often occurs when the first on-yomi kanji ends with a "k" or "t" series and the second on-yomi kanji begins with k, s, t, or h (f).
In your example, 作 ends with "ku," which belongs to k series, and 曲 begins with "kyo," hence it satisfies the above condition.
達成 (tassei) is another example of this kind. 達 (tatsu) ends in t series while 成 (sei) starts with s.
There are some exceptions to this rough rule. For example, 的確 is often pronounced "tekikaku" ("tekkaku" is also acceptable though).
According to my wife (No. she is real, Japanese, and has a bachelor's degree in Literature and teaching qualification in junior high Japanese class), the rules are explained in detail here:
Note that the article is an uber-wall of text in Japanese (I gave up after the first few lines).
Today I happen to be staying at her parent's house and had a chance to ask them the pronunciation of 水族館 (sui-zoku-kan, an aquarium), which consists of three on-yomi kanji but seems to satisfy the simple condition at the 族館 part. Their answers are:
Her parents: suizokkan.
Her sister: The pronunciation is suizokkan, but you write it as すいぞくかん (suizokukan) in hiragana.
My wife: Finish your lunch already!
What is a good resource for listening practice. Im doing okay in all other skills but listening. Anime is not a good option because, i don't want to talk like naruto. Ideas?
It almost sounds as if native speakers drop all the particles i worked so hard to remember when they are speaking...
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Anonymous2008-05-25 0:41
Is kisama always an insult? Now I know it's mostly just used in shows like movies and anime, but lots of people translate it as bastard; however, I see people using it in speech to refer to another and I don't see any signs of the other person being pissed off. It doesn't really make much sense though, the first kanji is 'precious' and the second, sama, is way up there in respect. Is it meant to be used to someone of a far lower status, but when someone says it near the same status of the other it becomes an insult? Or am I just overanalyzing all of this
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Anonymous2008-05-25 8:04
>>176
Kisama was a term of respect and had referred to "you" of a higher rank until the early modern period. Then, for several reasons, the word has lost the honorific meaning and acquired the opposite sense, and now it is used solely as an insult.
Similar changes in usages are found in many words. For example, Omae (お前) was a honorific personal pronoun of the second person in old Japanese. But in modern Japanese it is used when you are talking to your friends or want to be rude to others.
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Anonymous2008-05-26 22:22
>>177
お前 can still mean dear/darling etc, it would just depend on how you use it. Obviously if your using it with a mocking tone, then it is an insult.
Ok, finally someone asked for it, I was about to write an article on this issue. Anyway here is the pattern.
When two on-yomi kanji combine to become a 熟語(jyukugo), if the kana of the first kanji ends with つ(e.g.発~はつ 実~じつ 說~せつ 必~ひつ) or ち(e.g. 一~いち, 日~にち), the first kanji becomes 促音(sokuon) according to the rules as follows.
Rule no.1: when combine with the second kanji that begins with kana belongs to kana columns that have no 濁音(dakuon), the first kanji does NOT become 促音(sokuon).
e.g. 説明(せつめい),発明(はつめい), the kana ま of 明(めい) belongs to ま行(ma column) and has no 濁音(dakuon), therefore 説(せつ) and 発(はつ) do not become 促音(sokuon).
Rule no.2: When combine with the second kanji that begins with kana belongs to kana columns that have 濁音(dakuon),
A>> If the kana of the second kanji begins with 濁音(dakuon), the first kanji ALSO does NOT become 促音(sokuon).
e.g. 発動(はつどう), 実在(じつざい), the kana どof 動(どう) and ざof 在(ざい) are 濁音(dakuon) therefore 発(はつ) and 実(じつ) do not become 促音(sokuon).
B>> If the kana of the second kanji begins with 清音(seion) that has 濁音(dakuon), the first kanji MUST become 促音(sokuon).
e.g. 実験(じっけん), 実行(じっこう), the kana けof 験(けん) and こof 行(こう) belong to か行清音(seion of ka column) and か行(ka column) has 濁音(dakuon) therefore 実(じつ) MUST become 促音(sokuon) and pronounce じっ.
Rule no.3: When combine with the second kanji that begins with one of the は ひ ふ へ ほ(seion of ha column) five kana, follow rule no.2 B>> PLUS the first kana of the second kanji MUST become 半濁音(hadakuon).
e.g. 脱皮, 出発
Sorry for my clumsy writing but the point is to understand the pattern, not to learn the rules by rote.
>>178
お前 can never be used by female because it's rude.
It could be OK if it's between young girls though, it still sounds aggressive for men.
If a female uses お前 against a male, it's very often an insult no matter how old either side of you are.
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Anonymous2008-05-27 11:33
>>178
Presumably you're referring to the situation when a husband calls his wife. Certainly some old guys still use お前 when they talk to their wives, but nowadays it is often considered rude because it sounds as if he looks down on his wife. I don't argue it's wrong to think men are superior; to each their own. But the usage is definitely not recommended to non-native Japanese speakers.
>>179
Those complicated rules don't explain the example the original questioner came up with; 作 in 作曲 doesn't end with つ when used separately in the first place. Thanks for the interesting article though. It may enlighten you to study 入声 in old Chinese and its relation to old Japanese.
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Anonymous2008-05-27 21:36
>>179
thanks for some more depth about the subject.
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Anonymous2008-05-27 22:20
>>180-181
お前 Gives the idea of "one in front" so it is still used as an affectionate word, but for the most part you will not hear it used that way. I guess an English equivalent might be "brat" depending on how it is used it can be playful affectionate or offensive.
No. The current meaning and usage have nothing to do with "in front of."
The word origin is 御前 which was supposedly born around 1000 years ago and meant "(I am) facing God/Buddha/dignitaries" or "(I am standing) in front of God/Buddha/dignitaries." Actually this was not a second person pronoun.
Then in the beginning of the edo era, which is approximately 400 years ago, the word turned into a honorific second person pronoun which expresses the greatest respect for a person of high rank.
As おまえ became a common word among the commonality, it had gradually lost the honorific sense and spawned many derivatives, and the meanings/usages of those derived words also changed. The current connotation of おまえ is that you're talking to a person you don't need to use honorifics to.
As for dear/darling connotations, there was a derived word おまえさん. Actually this was a second person pronoun referring to a master or the chief priest in of a Buddhist temple when it was born in the early edo era. But by the end of the edo era its meaning and usages had changed so that it was used by a wife when she talked to her husband (you can hear this usage in movies, dramas and so on if the story takes place in a bit old Japan). This dear/darling usage already disappeared in the contemporary Japanese language (the current meaning of おまえさん is different from this old usage).
The usage I mentioned in >>181 is another dear/darling usage, which is still used by some elders. But, as I wrote, it often implies that the speaker thinks husbands are superior to their wives, and has nothing to do with おまえさん in the current Japanese language.
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Anonymous2008-05-28 5:26
oh god. can none of you spot a troll
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Anonymous2008-05-31 6:33
How do you know so much about Japanese, are you teaching Japanese somewhere?
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Anonymous2008-06-07 16:39
What do sageru and zetsubo mean?
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Anonymous2008-06-07 16:56
Trying to translate the phrase『鳳莱雀萃』. All of the google hits are for the same two songs, maybe it has something to do with "ash" or "smoke"? The individual kanji don't seem to have anything to do with eachother (pheonix, pigweed, sparrow, asemble), so guessing they're used for pronunciation and not Chinese meaning.
Does everyone smoke in Japan?
I go on a date with this real cute Japanese girl and we go to her Japanese restaurant she works at and she introduces me to her friends, I find out later she smokes which is kind of a turn off, the date ends, and I didn't really care to ask for a second date, 2 weeks pass and now her cute friend who kept saying I was cute when I was introduced to her somehow found out my myspace (god I hate that shithole, and I found her message like 10 days later) and I see through her pictures she smokes too
fuck shit cunt wtfux
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Anonymous2008-06-11 2:00
>>194
yeah, almost all. especially the men. its funny because they will have the smoke in the mouth and lighter and inch from the smoke before saying "its it okay if i smoke?"
really? i think thats true to the older generation... but alot of my friends in japan smoked in highschool, and later quit. Some never started at all.
I would say it is much more common in Japan than it is in countries like USA and England. Especially since a lot of towns in the northeast of the U.S are banning smoking in public places. I believ it's banned nationwide in England, but i could be wrong... I just remember non of the bars/pubs we went to allowed smoking.
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Anonymous2008-06-15 8:09
New Anon in this thread here.
In sports warm-ups say in schools or a club, when counting 1-10, how come seven has a weird voiceless format?
shich(i)?
why wouldn't the first 'i' [sh(i)chi] be voiceless instead?
Also, I've just started in the Kendo club at my college. "Ha" and "to" are shouted when practicing forward swings in reps of two, what does 'ha' and 'to' actually mean?
Thank you.
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Anonymous2008-06-15 14:27
because saying it in one syllable is easy and quick
it's just like how roku can be said kind of similar to roke (rhymes with coke)
>>197
die in a fire. people like you are the reason i dont admit to learning japanese
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Anonymous2008-06-17 7:46
>>200
Haha, same here. I might come out of the closet when my Japanese is good enough to talk more or less fluently, but until then I don't want to be associated with the two weeaboo Kendo-fags I know.
Also, 一 often works the same way too.
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Anonymous2008-06-17 9:27
>>201
lol I know just what you mean. One day surprise everyone! Saying that, as long as you do it in a non-weeaboo way that's fine really. I guess it just depends who you're with. Some people may think you're a faggot, others the complete opposite. I'd settle for something in between. As long as it's not the only other language you know, people should take to it fine.
Saying that though, I must look a right fucking weeaboo when I go to buy manga in japanese. Which is actually a great resource. It's not to heavy, rewarding, and (some) have furigana, which is a fucking godsend.
Also, on the subject of knowing kanji, does anyone know how much is enough to get by? Say, in playing a game in Japanese? My friend claims to know about 600 and he completed a few Gyakuten Saiban games in japanese, is this really enough?
SHIT!! ... >to heavy
fucking hell I should really proof read. And when I say it's not too heavy, I mean not too 'wordy'.
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Anonymous2008-06-17 10:06
I'd say 600 is a good enough amount to get through a vidya game. But that depends on the reading level required, and the complexity of the text in the first place. And yeah furigana are good, but don't rely on them too much, as, like stabilisers, when they go all of a sudden you'll probably fall over the first few times.
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Anonymous2008-06-17 15:47
It depends on what you mean by get by. Personally I think you should know 2000 kanji to get by, otherwise you'll be looking up kanji every sentence and that's no fun. When I got to the 2000+ mark I was then able to look at like any kanji, 99.8% of the time it seems like I knew the kanji. Also since I know how to write every single radical with perfect stroke order, if I do encounter a kanji past the 常用漢字 it'll be insanely easy to look up. Oh and if you run into pixelated kanji like 襲 or just a game with bad resolution then you're absolutely fucked if you don't know how to write/recognize the radicals.
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Anonymous2008-06-18 20:09
when connecting two sentences with the て form, do they need to have any relation to each other?
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Anonymous2008-06-18 21:51
>>206
it depends on the sentence, but grammatically no, they don't have to relate but, there are generally better ways to link sentences. then te form. Also you link it with other verbs it can mean u were doing the two at once
Is it just me or is 2ch so incredibly boring because it's only text and you don't really join new topics as they start you just join the 30th topic that currently has 500 posts and it's just bleh..
then 2chan futaba is nice but it's way too slow. Hard to visit those places for practice when they're so boring =/ are there any other forums out there that has a good population but not insanely huge as 2ch?
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Anonymous2008-06-24 5:59
>>210
compared to most forums, futaba moves quite quick. your just too use to *chan boards
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Anonymous2008-06-24 19:54
>>206 >>207
-て forms a sequential (and sometimes weakly causative) link. You can say ご飯をたべて、学校にいった but not 学校にいって、ご飯をたべた (unless you meant that you went to school and then ate your lunch).
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Anonymous2008-06-25 0:41
Are there any sites that list kanji stroke order for non-jouyou kanji? I know a couple that do all jouyou but outside of that, I'm lost. Now I know all the radicals but there's ones that look different, but some sites say that they're the same radical.
examples being 僅, this right side is supposed to be the left side of this 勤 but they don't look the same, (but some font seems like it does look the same) so I'm not sure how I should write it. Another example would be 曾/曽 for 噌, the 前(月) in 揃, etc
PS-I believe Vista and XP use different font, so if you use XP, you might not see it how I explained it
Are people shifting away from these odd radicals and I should just use the normal ones? Or the other way around? Or there is no only way for this?
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Anonymous2008-06-25 1:09
>>213
Me again, I asked some random person and they said simpler because they have been simplified meaning they're more up to date
but the question lies, if that is true, then why the hell would Microsoft make their new Vista system use the outdated version when XP had the correct style?
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Anonymous2008-06-25 1:42
>>214
That sounds pretty much on par with everything else about Vista, actually.
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Anonymous2008-06-25 8:45
>>214
Not sure if this is relevant to your question, but I hear on 2ch that Vista fucked up Japanese fonts so some cities/prefectures/government sites forbid Vista to complete online applications, documents and such on their sites.
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Anonymous2008-06-25 9:46
"一人暮らし"
if a girl asks you this, does she mean am i living alone or asking if i am single?
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Anonymous2008-06-25 11:08
>>217
Most of the time, it means living by yourself, but sometimes it can mean living alone AND single depending on the context. Either way what she wants to know is whether you're living alone or not. If she was asking if you're single, she would have asked if you were 独身.
earlier it was mentioned how kanji onyomi merged like 作曲 was sakkyoku rather than sakukyoku and there was rules for it. I was wondering if there were rules for the kanji where the first letter in the second+ kanji take a different reading, e.g. 人々 is hitobito
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Anonymous2008-06-25 23:13
>>221
What you're referring to involves several different phenomenons, but, in the case of your example, it's par of 連濁 (rendaku), which refers to a change of the first sound to 濁音 (dakuon) in the second component of a compound word. For example, "bi" in your example is the dakuon which was originally "hi."
This can also occur in a compound of two different words such as 株式会社 (kabushiki-Gaisya), which is 株式 (kabusiki, join-stock)＋会社 (Kaisya, company). It's too difficult to explain rendaku in detail, but in the case of compounds of the same kanji as in 人々, it's simple:
If the first sound of the kanji is k, s, t or h, then the corresponding sound of the second component changes to g, z(j), d or b, respectively.
For instance, 細々 (hoso+hoso) is pronounced hosoboso while 易々 (yasu+yasu) is yasuyasu.
As I said, there are many other things if you're talking about the sound changes of the second kanji in a word in general. For example, a bit complicated rule about rendaku says 山川 is pronounced yamakawa if it means "mountains and rivers," and yamagawa if you mean "a river running in a mountain." 云々 (un-nun) is an example that doesn't fall into rendaku. It may look similar to 人々 and such but actually follows another rule (and the pronunciation of the second kanji is altered).
That said, every rule has exceptions and you can get by with the simple redaku rule. In fact, no one cares if 山川 is mispronounced, and others like 云々 are rare so it's easier to remember each word than master the rules.
replace the ___ with older or younger or whatever information is needed there
also used to say something is better
AはB方が良いです
A is better than B
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Anonymous2008-06-29 6:53
>>224
Strictly speaking, 年上 and 年下 implies the gap is greater than one year or they are/were in different years at grade school (Skipping/failing a grade is quite rare in Japan). So, in written language, I would say:
AさんはBさんより３ヶ月若いです
or use a different wording like:
Aさんの誕生日はBさんより３ヶ月早いです or 遅いです
when A is older or younger, respectively.
That said, 年上 and 年下 are loosely used especially in spoken language. So it's not very unusual to say:
AさんはBさんより３ヶ月だけ年下です
AさんはBさんより３ヶ月年上です.
だけ ("merely" in English) is placed to emphasize that the gap is less than one year. I omitted the word in the second sentence because using だけ can be impolite when you're referring to an elder person depending on the context. Also, 年上/年下 may sound funny/humorous when the gap is measured by weeks/days/hours/seconds. So a Japanese twin may make a joke like "私は弟より１時間年上です."
'Nother question, I've noticed both men and women often use でしょ instead of だろ even in タメ口 speech. Is だろ considered especially "rough" or is there some difference in meaning between でしょ and だろ besides politeness level?
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Anonymous2008-06-29 16:40
>>227
The meaning of the two words is pretty much the same, but だろ sounds manly and quite assertive while でしょ is unisex and a little less assertive (compared to だろ).
As for "roughness," だろ sure is rough. I recommend you avoid it unless you're talking with close friends.
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Anonymous2008-06-30 13:40
>>228
I think there is "u" in the end, i.e., it's a long "o" - でしょう, ne!?
<--NOW MY QUESTION-->
Why are Japanese Wikipedia's articles on cat and dog called ネコ and イヌ (instead of kanji)? Are there many words written in katakana, is it a growing trend?
(because I don't know any katakana and start to wonder if it's being used for something more than Engrish and onomatopoeia)
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Anonymous2008-06-30 16:31
>>229
でしょ is a colloquial form of でしょう and has a meaning quite similar to だろ, which is also an informal word.
As for katakana in wikipedia's articles, it's because the words you're referring to are scientific terms. More specifically, katakana is often used in the nomenclature of creatures and plants to differentiate scientific definitions from loose meanings used in daily conversation.
For example, felidae is ネコ科, not 猫科 or ねこ科. So, if a feline has a very odd looking, maybe you don't refer as 猫 though it belongs to ネコ科.
On a side note: There are also many scientific terms written in kanji such as 哺乳綱 (Mammalia), but most of the time they are recognized as technical terms.
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Anonymous2008-06-30 16:38
>>230
Gah! My English grammar! I should of taken a second look. Hope you get what I meant...
>>232
I would recommend that you return to /jp/ with haste.
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Anonymous2008-07-04 20:00
I am trying to learn the language and I downloaded:
Genki
Rosetta Stone
Power Japanese
Pimsleur
Is this everything I would need to get a basic grasp of the language? Is there anything that you suggest I add or don't use? I also have hiragana basically memorized and I don't plan on working on kanji till I'm done with understanding everything else.
Also could someone purpose a schedule for me to go through this stuff. I find that if I am the one who makes a schedule I am less likely to follow it.
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Anonymous2008-07-05 4:23
>>234
buy a grammar book. half an hour of each thing every day, spaced out throughout the day. (assuming you don't have a job or any sort of life)
>>234 I don't plan on working on kanji till I'm done with understanding everything else.
Are you trying to fail?
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Anonymous2008-07-05 10:02
>>234
Don't listen to them, you can do it! Kanji are very important, so I think you should study them even before you're done "understanding everything else." Genki is very good textbook, one of the best, but since you're still an absolute beginner I'd recommend Communicating with Japanese by the Total Method by Noah S. Brannen instead (http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1531528/13876688/).
>>235
You can do that even if you have a life. And you don't need to be that hard on yourself; you'll retain things better if you don't study too much in too little time.
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Anonymous2008-07-05 11:12
When I started learning the language I was all "fuck off kanji, i've just learnt 2 fucking syllabaries and now you want me to learn MOAR?!" but, given time, you'll become acquainted with certain common ones and without even intentionally trying to drill them in you'll soon know more than you had expected.
Still, they can be quite intimidating things, and as long as you learn them in context you'll be okay. That being said, you can just go old fashioned flashcard method and drill study like Japanese kids do, if you have a decent memory. I find it helps best to have example sentences. I use speedanki.com alot to refresh and learn kanij in context. It's great because the sentences only use other kanji according to the set JLPT level you're learning at.
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Anonymous2008-07-07 1:58
Really hoping someone can help me understand the Japanese grammar particles.
の = Possession
は = Topic Marker
に = Marks a specific time
Those are the ones I know, except for は a little bit. By a little bit I mean that I don't know which word it needs to follow in a sentence to be grammatically correct.
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Anonymous2008-07-07 2:02
Really hoping someone can help me understand the Japanese grammar particles.
の = Possession
は = Topic Marker
に = Marks a specific time
Those are the ones I know, except for は a little bit. By a little bit I mean that I don't know which word it needs to follow in a sentence to be grammatically correct.
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Anonymous2008-07-07 2:02
lols doublepost
don't worry bout it though
wish i could help ;-;
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Anonymous2008-07-07 2:43
>>241
anything before "wa" is the sentence subject
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Anonymous2008-07-07 13:23
>>243
so, "anything before" is the sentence subject
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Anonymous2008-07-07 22:35
Since japanese writing has no spaces how do you tell when a は or の is being used as a particle or if it's part of a word?
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Anonymous2008-07-07 22:59
>>245
No explicit rules. Read a lot and get used to the standard structures. By the way, if you write a sentence all in hiragana, even a native Japanese speaker may be confused and take minutes to get the sentence structure. So it's better to use kanji so that a particle lies in between kanji and/or katakana when you write a confusing sentence.
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Anonymous2008-07-07 23:11
Added note to >>246:
There are famous confusing sentences. For example:
李も桃も桃のうち (Both Japanese plums and peaches are peaches anyway.)
If you write it in hiragana, it becomes すもももももももものうち.
Okay, here's one that's really been bugging me recently. And no matter what textbook/website description I read, I still don't fully get it. How do you use the particle から and when/where is it placed in a sentence, and what difference is there between it and ので ?
から tends to be literally translated as 'from' but as it's almost used as a particle I really need to know its proper use.
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Anonymous2008-07-08 22:25
>>250
you need to read some better textbooks if they don't explain 'kara'. It is very common and has many uses. Like other particles it is placed the word it modifies.
から
(prt) from (e.g., time, place, numerical quantity); since; from (originator); because; out of (constituent, part); through (e.g., window, vestibule); after; since (following te-form verb); (P)
It is used in the same way as 'node' to mean 'because' but node is more formal and does not use polite endings.
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Anonymous2008-07-08 22:30
it is placed the word it modifies.
that should read 'after the word' or word(s) since it can be many words
I'm curious about about some of the net slang I've seen in Japanese. Anyone have a good site or article that lists some of the current net slang and such? One puzzling instance in particular that I saw was this: "何もry" at the end of a sentence. What does the "ry" part stand for or represent?
The dictionary contains a vast amount of slang, but if you can't find some 2ch slang, this 2ch slang dictionary may be helpful: http://www.media-k.co.jp/jiten/
I don't know if there's an Japanese to English (or another foreign language) dictionary of net slang.
As for "ry," it's an abbreviation of 省略 (syou-ryaku), which means "omission." It's used when you omit part of an obvious sentence or sentences such as a set phrase and 2ch meme. The original post may be quite long and you should guess the whole from the context.
this work would be used in place of 上手 when talking about yourself
eg 私はサッカーが好きも上手です
using 上手 there sounds a little stuck up. i know there is another word
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Anonymous2008-08-03 16:12
>>263
得意 is probably the best way to say youre good at something. or maybe saying you have confidence in your skill
i.e
〜することに自信がある
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Anonymous2008-08-06 3:39
Is 趣味の悪いこと the same as 悪趣味? I tried looking it up the meaning but couldn't find an answer.
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Anonymous2008-08-06 7:42
>>265
Pretty much the same aside from the grammatical role. 趣味の悪いこと means "things or behavior which is 悪趣味," namely "thing(s) or behavior which is vulgar/gaudy/of poor taste/nasty/perverse/immoral. I think 悪趣味 is more frequent.
same fag here. can anyone verify that 〜することに自信がある? I was kind of going out on a limb there, i know it would be understood... but would it sound natural?
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Anonymous2008-08-12 15:56
>>267
私はサッカーをすることに自信があります is grammatically correct, but
私はサッカーの腕前に自信があります sounds more natural to me.
私はサッカーに自信があります is acceptable too.
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Anonymous2008-08-12 20:22
>>268
thanks, now that you mention it, the second one does sound better when i say it out loud.
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Anonymous2008-08-13 1:42
>>40
私はどこにいるか知らない？ may sound a little more natural...
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Anonymous2008-08-13 5:51
>>270
は should be が. Also, your wording 私がどこにいるか知らない？ may sound as if you're a bit surprised the listener doesn't know where you are now. If you just want to ask if the listener knows where you are, then
私がどこにいるか知ってる？ (spoken)
私がどこにいるか知っていますか。 (neutral)
私の所在をご存じでしょうか。 (polite, using honorifics)
would be more natural.
On a side note, your wording doesn't have this connotation when you're asking if the listener knows the place where a third person or people is/are. For example,
"Do you know where he is?" is:
彼がどこにいるか知ってる？ or 彼がどこにいるか知らない？ (Spoken. The latter is slightly polite.)
彼がどこにいるか知りませんか？ (Neutral. 知っていますか sounds rough.)
彼の所在（or 居場所）をご存じでしょうか？ (Polite. Using honorifics.)
If you do want to say something like "What? You don't know where he's now??", then you may say:
maybe you could help me out with something. I was trying to say it's been 4 years since i left for japan in an email today. what i wrote was 始めて日本に行4年間が経ちました。that sounded right in my head, and when i said it out loud... maybe you could assess this?
i spent my senior year of hs there, and then returned for college for a year... I passed the level 2 test for the jlpt, but it feels like my Japanese is going to shit :(
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Anonymous2008-08-17 19:26
>>275
The question wasn't which is correct. The question was what does the second phrase mean.
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Anonymous2008-08-17 21:42
>>276
I think you forgot to put "き" between "行" and "４." "はじめて" is usually written as "初めて" in kanji. It's not wrong to use "始" in this meaning, but I think it's a bit old fashioned. Other than these, I think it's ok.
If you'd like to sound more natural, then you may want to omit "間" so it reads "4年が経ちました." I don't know why, but "4年間が経ちました" sounds slightly foreign.
This might be beyond JLPT level, but "Aに行きX年が経ちました" often implies "I have been in A for X years," i.e., you haven't returned to your home country for X years. To avoid ambiguity, you may say "Aに行ったときからX年が経ちました" or "Aに着いた(or 向かった)ときかからX年が経ちました."
The former wording fits in perfectly when you refer to a relatively short trip. If your stay was relatively long, its meaning becomes ambiguous because it literally means "X years have passed since an ARBITRARILY GIVEN day during the trip (the speaker doesn't specify when it exactly is)." So, it's better to avoid the wording when the stay was longer than, say, a year. If you used, the listener would most likely take it that you meant "since the last day of the trip" or possibly "since the first day of the trip."
The latter wording is always clear what you mean.
Finally, if I were you, I'd say "初めて日本行きの飛行機へ乗ってから4年がたちました." This may sound a bit poetic, but I like to use these kinds of expression when I write to a friend I haven't seen for years.
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Anonymous2008-08-18 0:26
>>276
>it feels like my Japanese is going to shit :(
Obviously my English (>>278) got rusty already...
>>258
Example:
あがるお (上がるお)
Wow, i've used over a month to reply.
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Anonymous2008-08-25 14:34
>>278
Thanks for the help man! I hope I can explain it that well someday too!
>>280
ya, im not in japan right now. thats why i was slightly confused.
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Anonymous2008-08-25 23:28
Pronunciation questions.
When you pronounce the n/m sound in a word, do you separate it into its own syllable or pronounce it together with the previous one.
For example: The word 本 ( ほん ) would you say "hon" or "ho-n."
Same for the "ou" sound, do I pronounce them together or seperate?
"ou" or "o-u."
Thanks.
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Anonymous2008-08-26 1:02
>>284
Same guy here. I guess I could sum this up as: Do you pronounce every hiragana phonetic in a word every time? or do some combine like in English? I.e. the 'a' and 'i' in "はい" forming an 'eye' sound making the word sound something like "hi." Or should it in fact sound like "は-い"
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Anonymous2008-08-26 9:37
>>285
I recognize one vowel in every syllable except "ん" when speaking Japanese. It may be helpful to compare English words with loanwords. When I run across a word "count" in an English text, I only feel one vowel, but when I see the corresponding loanword カウント in a Japanese text, I feel it has four syllables, three of which have vowels: カ(ka), ウ(u), ン(n), and ト(to).
If you say "count" in English, it sounds to monolingual Japanese something like か + unknown foreign sound (kind of mixture of "oo" and "n" following か smoothly) + noise (consonant "t"). Note that the brains of monolingual Japanese don't recognize the consonant "t" as part of language because it isn't followed by a vowel, and they either ignore it or think your tongue made a noise with saliva. It's no more a phoneme than grinding of the teeth.
Also, the smoothness between kah-oo-nn makes your pronunciation quite foreign.
That said, I think it'd be better to just mimic native speakers and not to analyze phonetics. Well, I should've said this first, but whatever.
Do you pronounce every hiragana phonetic in a word every time?
Nope. Your best bet is to learn by listening to how the Japanese themselves do it so you learn how they combine. Try japanese pimsleur or any japanese show.
Ou, hai, hon are all pronounced together
desu is pronounced "des" most of the time. The 'u' is really not audible.
As a counter-example, yaoi is pronounced ya-o-i and not ya-oi (like a pirate).
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Anonymous2008-08-26 21:51
>>288
>Ou, hai, hon are all pronounced together
>As a counter-example, yaoi is pronounced ya-o-i and not ya-oi (like a pirate).
English diphthongs and Japanese ones are quite different. I'll attach an abstract of a paper on diphthongs which I think sums up what they are like.
As for です, most of the time it sounds "des" to English speakers. However, actually Japanese speakers are feeling the missing "u." In fact, some native speakers pronounce it more like "desu" and others say it like "des," but they're recognized as the same phoneme.
quote:
ENGLISH AND JAPANESE DIPHTHONGS: AN ACOUSTIC APPROACH
An English diphthong is traditionally defined as a glide sound, which is articulated within a single syllable by speech organs starting in the position of the first vowel and moving in the direction of the second vowel.
In English there are several diphthongs such as /aI/,/OI/,etc., while in the field of Japanese linguistics, /ai/,/oi/,/ui/ and /ei/ are said to be diphthongs.
However, the definition of English diphthongs given above does not hold in the case of so-called Japanese diphthongs. Because Japanese /ai/,/oi/ etc. are pronounced not as one syllable but as two syllables. And /-i/ in Japanese /ai/, for example, is articulated in the same position as a monophthong /i/, but /-I/ in English /aI/ is articulated in the position where the vowel /E/ is articulated. Thus it is generally said that Japanese /-i/ is the destination at which speech organs arrive, but English /-I/ shows the target point towards which speech organs move. Furthermore, when we consider diphthongs from the point of stress, the first element of an English diphthong is pronounced with strong force and the second element with fairly weak force.
In so-called Japanese ‘diphthongs’, however, the two elements are pronounced with almost even stress. Thus there are great differences between English and Japanese diphthongs and the characteristics of English diphthongs have been said to be strikingly different from those of Japanese ‘diphthongs’. Unfortunately, we could not find any study which compares English and Japanese diphthongs quantitatively and investigates the differences between them. However, to compare and examine acoustically the differences between them in detail is not only interesting in the field of phonetics but also exceedingly significant for the training of English pronounciation.
The aim of this study is to make a time and frequency domain analysis of English and Japanese diphthongs from the view point of experimental phonetics, and to reconsider and describe quantitatively what has been taken for granted in the area of traditional phonetics.
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Anonymous2008-08-27 15:55
hi.
I'm having trouble translating this sentence:
三年生の私がそう思うのだから、六年生の姉はもっとその頭望が強かったに違いない。
I know it's something about 'as a 3rd grader I think so because my 6th grade elder sister ... something something...
I'm not sure what '頭望' (atama mochi) means and I don't understand what this elder sister does...or doesn't.
Any help?
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Anonymous2008-08-27 17:47
>頭望
that is strange indeed, are you sure that's the right compound?
google doesn't turn up anything of value...
if I were a JAPANESE MASTER I'd probably tell you "oh that's the __ compound which looks similar" but I'm not,
願望 looks KIND of similar so that would translate as
"I was in third grade and thought that way, so there is no doubt my sister, whom was in 6th grade, desired it even more".
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Anonymous2008-08-27 23:14
quick question. well more of a situation. im telling some folks about how i was studying japanese. of course they want me to say something but i find it a little weird to do that since they wont understand anyway. before i can say something, some bitch comes out of nowhere and says "どうぞよろしく". i stumbled and just kind of passed it over. but not knowing things bothered me and i felt like i knew it so i went to look it up. its something of an introduction, literally please be kind to me, kind of thing. so does bitch deserve a slap for spouting nonsense?
tl;dr
was she using that way out of context to fuck with me?
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Anonymous2008-08-28 3:08
>>291
Thanks, that make much more sense than I could ever make.
I have another sentence though.
私は部屋をすぐに散らかしたし、虫やカエル等の特に込んで飼育したので姉は本当に嫌がっていた。
I can understand this much: "Because I really hate my sister, I mess the room immediately, especially with insects and frogs."
Doesn't make much sense to me. Any ideas?
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Anonymous2008-08-28 4:06
>>293
I'm not >>291, but I think the sentence has a typo so it should read "...等を特に好んで飼育..."
If this is the case, it means "My sister really isn't happy because I always left my stuff scattered around our room and kept insects and frogs."
The thing that throws me of is the たり、たり、する structure, I know the theory behind it, and usually understand it in simpler sentences.
I'm somewhat sure what each sentence means, however I'm having trouble getting the overall meaning.
So it's something like:
"And so top it off, my sister never returs the stuff she borrowed without permission, or brought friends over, or thought the rooms decoration (something)"
The rest is a blur especially what's inside the 「」
Any suggestions are greatly appriciated.
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Anonymous2008-08-28 6:52
>>297
I think it's a run-on sentence and defies faithful translation into proper English. Also, I think "おまけに姉は" is either "おまけに姉の" or possibly "おまけに妹 (or 弟 depending on the sex of the author)は." If I were the author, I'd write:
On top of that, sometimes I took my sister's stuff without permission, and occasionally me and my friends whooped it up in our room. I even tried to furnish with vulgar stuff without notice, saying "I feel like making changes in our room." I'm pretty sure she always thought "...if only she wasn't born."
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Anonymous2008-08-28 7:24
>>298
Thanks for the quick reply. If anyone's interested these sentences are from a short story called "自分の部屋が欲しい" printed in "ももこの話" by "さくらももこ"
I might be back with more sentences later.
In the mean time, if anyone knows this short story, and have a review, or know where to get one, I'd really appriciate it.
It makes translating that mush easier when you know what it is about.
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Anonymous2008-08-28 7:39
>>299
Ah, that's why the sentences are in spoken language and a bit amateurish. I thought you took them from some blog or something.
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Anonymous2008-08-28 8:06
>>296
Without context, you never get proper translation.
If the context is like the long hair guy is a kind of super popular alpha male with some magical power and he's about to rape the weakling because the weakling is the only person who didn't think the alpha guy is awesome, then he may be saying:
"There were only losers: those who expected a favor in return or who stood at a distance in awe of me, feeling envy deep down."
and then he may say something like "But you're not like those idiots. I'm interested in you." And yaoi continues.
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Anonymous2008-08-28 16:36
Hello again everyone. I've reached the end of my text, and need your pwnage japanese skillz.
It's a larger piece of text this time.
It's getting late here, and translating nonstop all day is making my head hurt.
I'm grateful for any help you might wanna do.
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Anonymous2008-08-28 23:21
Are you translating this and asking us for a translation so you can compare or?
When I looked like I was serious, my sister came back and shocked me by saying "Your bed is on the verge of falling apart." As I looked at her with a mix of doubt and suspicion, she turned and added "Mom was saying we should get rid of it and put my piano there instead." "Ah..." I could feel a line running across my face and hear Keaton Ideta's narration (uh?). "And just like that, the worthless room Maruko had finally made for himself was replaced by his sister's piano and consigned to oblivion". I then heard a loud bell ringing throughout. Using these recollections, I completed my comic.
Even my previously meaningless memories are now of use. I would ask the people who feel their day-to-day life is meaningless to hang on, as there may come a day where it can serve them.
-「径」≠「役に立つ」
-I am not sure the tenses in my translation are correct or if I even get what's going on.
-Keaton Ideta??
-日々虚しさ "day-to-day meaninglessness" I reworded this and other stuff, but hopefully it's close enough.
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Anonymous2008-08-28 23:30
I'm not sure what "そうです” as a way of ending a sentence is supposed to imply. For example:
そのアパートの家賃は、１ヶ月９０万円もするそうです。
The rent for that apartment is said to be as high as 900,000 yen.
What does "sou" before "desu" supposed to imply?
Thank you, kind anonymous.
Second question, 暖かい and 暖かいん -- does the "n" at the end of atatakai make a difference in the meaning? What is the purpose of that? Thankyou.
暖かい and 暖かいん
this is probably 「暖かいです」vs「暖かいんです」, you can't finish sentences in 「ん」
First of all the 「ん」 is short for 「の」
Second of all the difference between the two is very subtle
personally I don't grasp it at all...
tae kim of http://www.guidetojapanese.org/particles3.html#part5
describes this as an "explanatory" nuance
Translation-wise there's usually no difference
「暖かい。」
It's warm.
「暖かいんだ。」
It's warm.
You might want to take a look a jgram for this one too
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Anonymous2008-08-28 23:49
>>302
タテ線は入い is タテ線が入り? Maybe キートン山田, not 出田? 径に立つ is a typo and it should read 役に立つ? Also, I guess 何に立つ日も was either 役に立つ日も, 何か役に立つ日も or 何かに役に立つ日も. If these are just typos, my shitty translation is:
When I started working on it seriously, my sister came to my room and, out of the blue, she said, "This bed will be taken down soon, you know." Leaving me looking at her in confusion, she continued, "My piano will replace this bed. Mom said so just now."
"What..." My face gets the vertical lines, and I hear the voice of Keaton Yamada: "This way the worthless room Maruko built up with much effort was buried and done with by her sister's piano all too quickly," and rings the muffled sound of a temple bell.
My manga is based off of memories like this. The meaningless days in the past became fruitful reminiscences. If you are feeling empty everyday, I'd like you to think this way: some day empty days may turn to something else.
Obviously this rough translation needs editing work to be good, proper English. I hope this could help you a bit.
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Anonymous2008-08-29 1:42
>>304 >>305
>Second question, 暖かい and 暖かいん -- does the "n" at the end of atatakai make a difference in the meaning? What is the purpose of that?
I usually use 〜のです or 〜んです instead of です when implying what I just said is a reason or cause.
今日は忙しいです simply states the fact that you're busy today.
今日は忙しいのです implies, say, that's why you can't go outside, or so that you have to hurry.
今日は忙しいんです is ...のです in informal spoken language.
The catch is implication can be virtually anything depending on the context and your tone of voice. So if you use 今日は忙しいのです in the wrong way when asked if you're available, it could mean like "I'm busy. That's why I want to say, 'don't bother me, you asshole.'" I recommend you avoid 忙しいのです unless you're sure your tone of voice doesn't cause offense or confusion.
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Anonymous2008-08-29 4:53
>>303 >>306
Thanks! You guys are lifesavers!
Yes I did have my own rather rough translation of some of it, but being tired from translating all day, kept me from making any sense.
Now that I've slept on it, I see that I've made some crucial mistakes, especially where there are typos.
Once again, thanks!
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Anonymous2008-08-31 14:29
Is "For the health of both of us" an imperfectly translated Japanese idiom or saying?
I get the meaning, but would like to know the original if there is one and when one would use it.
Context is someone put it at the end of an e-mail to me if that matters.
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Anonymous2008-09-03 20:47
Quick question, what is "not bad" in Japanese?
As in "-I learned Japanese in one week. -Not bad!".
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Anonymous2008-09-03 21:21
What's the difference between 周り and 辺り? Does 辺り refer more to actual physical surroundings while 周り can be used more generally? I can't quite figure this one out.
>>310
If you mean "not difficult," I'd say 難しくない or 割と簡単.
In other cases, most likely 悪くない fits in.
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Anonymous2008-09-04 0:05
>>311
Roughly speaking, 周り is 辺り + an imaginary circle. 周り means the area that belongs to 辺り and that is outside or along the circle.
辺り means "vicinity" or "neighborhood" in general while 周り is "vicinity" or "neighborhood" with the connotation of "circumference," "girth" or "surrounding area."
Maybe some examples may help a bit:
When you're talking about beaches, seasides or port cities in general, you can use 海の辺り. If you're referring to coastal areas and picturing the coast line in a map in your mind, you say 海の周り; you're talking about the area along the coast line.
When you say この海の辺り while, say, talking with your friends on a deck of a ship in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, it can mean "this area (of sea)." When you use この海の周り in the same situation, it can mean "neighboring areas."
この辺りは危険 means "this area is dangerous." If you say この周りは危険, the place you're in might be safe, but neighboring areas are all dangerous.
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Anonymous2008-09-04 5:07
Is Japan like the worst place to work? Seriously. I like the language, can speak to Japanese without too much effort, and think tokyo is a fun place, but wow, what the salary men go through just isn't worth it. They work like a million hours (80 a week?) they're lucky if they get 5 hours of sleep (My homestay father gets 3 a day) which is why Japanese have the amazing ability to sleep anywhere, even standing, and the pay sucks ass. Is it just like this in Tokyo or is it shitty for everyone but maybe the few lucky people who get a non-shitty job?
>>40
What is the context? Instead of putting it all into a single question, it may be better to break it up.
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Anonymous2008-09-11 2:14
抜く
引く
掛ける、掛かる
付く
込む
I can never figure out the context when I see any of those verbs.
Can anyone give a good explanation with examples of how each of them are used in different situations?
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Anonymous2008-09-11 8:00
Is there a difference between してて, してって and していって?
I saw the first one in a manga as 「安全にしてて下さい。」 I don't remember where I've seen the second one. The latter I've only seen in 「ゆっくりしていってね！」
There's no difference.
Those three are just variations of して(いて).
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Anonymous2008-09-11 11:18
>>324
Generally 抜く means to pull out something long and narrow from a hole or similar place. Usually the thing you pull is sticking, clogging, closing, occupying or jamming. It is one of the most frequent words and has various usages; it's like asking what "get" means. These are some typical examples:
白髪を抜く pull out a white hair.
ワインの栓を抜く open a bottle of wine. (栓 is a stopper, so in this case it means a cork.)
刀を抜く draw my sword.
DVDをドライブから抜く take the DVD out of the drive.
本を本棚から抜く choose a book from the bookshelves.
風呂の湯を抜く let the water out of the bathtub (A water outlet is a hole and water through it is considered kind of narrow).
財布を抜く pick a wallet ("Pick" in this example is kind of "steal" + "pull out," so you use 抜く).
Some words collocate with 抜く. In such a case, the sense of "remove" or "take out" is often emphasized:
インクの染みを抜く remove an ink stain.
脂を抜く remove the fat.
髪の色を抜く bleach the hair (you're "getting rid" of a pigment.).
力を抜く relax (in the sense of "try not to be nervous" i.e., "get rid" of tension).
昼食を抜く skip lunch.
Another important meaning is to overtake/pass:
先頭走者を抜く overtake the lead runner.
There are millions more usages, but I think you can get the gist of any sentence if you grasp the basic meaning unless it's an idiom. Most of the time 抜く means either "pull out," "pick out," "get rid of," "omit," "scoop," "takeover," "pierce" or whatnot.
The other words you asked are also very common so it's hard to give concise definitions and make you understand by few examples. If this post helped a bit, I might post definitions and examples for other words when I find time.
Maybe it'll be helpful to ask a native Japanese speaker who speaks English better than I do to translate the pages for the words in a monolingual dictionary for native Japanese speakers.
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Anonymous2008-09-11 11:38
>>325 >>326
してて is a colloquial expression for していて and has a connotation of "keep" or "stay."
安全にしてて下さい means "stay in a safe place" or something.
〜してって is a colloquial word for 〜していって, which means "to do/be 〜 while you're here/there/another place."
ゆっくりしていってね is literally "take your time while you're here" so it means "please make yourself at home."
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Anonymous2008-09-12 22:53
舐 what is this kanji useful for?
never seen it in any words, only ever by itself and still i cannot find a clear meaning for it
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Anonymous2008-09-12 23:02
舐めとんか！
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Anonymous2008-09-12 23:42
チ〇ポをペロっと舐めてくれ
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Anonymous2008-09-13 2:28
>>329
Dictionaries, motherfucker, do you use them?
ttp://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C
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Anonymous2008-09-13 2:39
>>330
ah thanks >>332
yeah there are about 30 different ways it can be used. i just wanted to see one of them.
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Anonymous2008-09-13 3:50
I'm confused when to use intransitive and transitive verbs when it seems like it could be one or the other.
Here's an example, if you hear a door shut, but you don't know if humans did it or it was just the wind which would you use? I asked my teacher and she said 自動詞(intransitive) so that's out of the way
but what about other things like why is 振り仮名がついている and not 振り仮名をつけている? People had to do that, or maybe it's because people did it but then machines printed it (hmm, are machines transitive or intransitive)
Another example might be like you're driving a truck and you turn and a box falls out of the truck, which do you use for to fall? The turn caused it which was caused by the person, but then again something is just telling me it's intransitive. There's a hell of a lot better examples I thought of but can't recall..
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Anonymous2008-09-13 6:35
>>334
i default to using intransitive unless it's clear that you went out of your way to make something happen or you're trying to emphasize that
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Anonymous2008-09-15 0:07
Hey all. So, I'm making some flash cards for kanji and their readings, but I'm having trouble with one in particular - 下 (specifically, the verbs)
The dictionaries I'm using don't really clearly differentiate between their usages. Here's what I've got on my card at the moment:
さ（がる）- (v5r) to step back; to hang down
さ（げる）- (v1) to lower
くだ（る）- (v5r) to get down; to descend
くだ（す）- (v5s) to make [a decision]; to pass [judgement]
くだ（さる）- (v5aru) (hon) to give; to bestow
お（ろす）- (v5s) to take down; to let off [bus, etc.]
お（りる）- (v1) to go down; to get off [bus, etc.]
Wondering if anyone could comment or come up with better definitions - though, I'd like to keep them simple at this point in my studies. Thanks in advance
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Anonymous2008-09-15 2:58
>>336
Maybe one or two examples for each definition would help grasp senses/usages while keeping your flash cards concise. Does your dictionary not contain illustrative sentences?
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Anonymous2008-09-15 4:34
>>337
I suppose I should incorporate examples somehow... So far I've been making separate cards for on-yomi, kun-yomi, and verbs - drilling (just) the readings and associated meanings. As far as finding them though, none of the books I own have them and the only site I know of would be WWWJDIC... will look around though, thanks
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Anonymous2008-09-19 17:34
Would someone care to explain what "さすが<name>！" means?
Oh, and also "なきゃ". I see this at the end of some sentences in emails I get from a Japanese person. I asked what it meant but I'm not quite sure I grasped the Japanese explanation. Is it related to "なくちゃいけません"?
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Anonymous2008-09-19 18:24
>>339
さすが(name) is used in a kind of "I knew you could it!" way, or maybe "just what we'd expect from you!". I fail at explaining it though, I never really understood さすが when it was explained to me, it just became clear once I saw it a few times in different contexts. It's one of those akward words, IMO.
You're basically right with なきゃ, it's shortened from ～なければ(ならない/いけない/だめ). People often leave out the negative afterwards because it's strongly implied and not really necessary when you're being casual like that. You'll also see sentences ending in なくちゃ or ないと just the same.
Can anyone break down and translate this sentence for me?
I know it's something about a key and not remembering but the かけたか bit that confuses me
Whole sentence: かぎをかけたかどうかわおぼえていなかったし
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Anonymous2008-09-21 20:59
かぎをかける means to lock the door or literally turn the key, I believe. So, "I couldn't remember whether I locked the door" kakeru has loads of definitions.
Can anyone tell me what マジ受ける means? ukeru again has loads of definitions. Context is that this girl says it in response to some things that I say.
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Anonymous2008-09-21 21:10
WHAT THE FUCK DOES にって MEAN? THIS IS DRIVING ME INSANE.
CRUISE CONTROL ETC.
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Anonymous2008-09-21 22:01
>>343
She's saying she thinks what you're saying is funny or whatever.
>>344
Where did you hear/read it? I don't think にって is a word in it's own right or anything, unless you mean にて in which case it's basically a more formal で.
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Anonymous2008-09-22 12:50
>>345
Maybe I'm being an idiot but the sentence is
そんなにってなんだよ！
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Anonymous2008-09-22 13:10
What does it mean in raw manga when a normal word like メシ or ホント that should be in hiragana are in katakana?
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Anonymous2008-09-22 13:54
>>346
Well if you've never come across って before you're not being an idiot, and if you have I'll forgive you.
って is a casual version of と or という or variations thereof. It gets used all the time in many different ways, often as a handy way of talking about or descrbing whatever it's "quoting", which can be pretty much anything.
Here's it's talking about the word そんなに itself, which presumably someone else said before - I would guess something along the the lines of なんでそんなにｘｘｘ? or そんなにｘｘｘなくてもいい"? If so (and if not you should be able to understand from this example anyway) your sentence means something like "What do you mean 'so xxx'?!". It's just questioning why the other person considers xxx to be at a level worthy of the "そんなに".
>>347
It doesn't really mean anything. Often katakana gets used for slangy words, e.g. メシ is much rougher and more causal than ごはん and ホント correctly is ほんとう with the long vowel. Also words with difficult or rare kanji sometimes get written in katakana, especially in things aimed at a teenage audience. (In fact overall this kind of katakana use is most common in shounen, in my experience.) Lastly katakana is sometimes used to show that a word is being said with a lot of emphasis.
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Anonymous2008-09-22 14:15
>>348
Thanks that helped so much, it makes sense now
I'd never came across って before so it confused me greatly.
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Anonymous2008-09-22 16:00
What would you say was the best way to pick up Japanese quickly? I already know a lot of random words and phrases but when it actually come to translating something I can't do it. I already attend Japanese classes but they're going so slow at the moment and I know it all.
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Anonymous2008-09-22 16:44
>>345
Well at least she wasn't taking me seriously.
Cheers.
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Anonymous2008-09-23 18:30
What do the から and たら mean that seem (maybe?) to be used at the end of sentences?
I have some questions about combined verbs. Is there a particular word for these so I can do some googling myself?
I'm talking about stuff like 飛込む 落ち込む etc
but not just 込む, there's other ones like ～始まる ～終わる ～かける ～くる ～する 等
Pretty much I'm just curious how they work. Like how is なってきた different to なった
are there any more of these wordcombos I'm missing?
In The Internationale in Japanese, what does uetaru mean? The base verb is "ueru", to starve, but what is the form used here? Is it a contraction of "te aru" or something else? I typed up the first verse so you can see it. Also what does the "zo" in the second line mean? Is it the standard "exclamation" zo or something else?
起て飢えたる者よ
今ぞ日が近し
醒めよ我が同胞
暁は来ぬ
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Anonymous2008-09-29 1:09
飢えたる者 means "those who are starving," and Xぞ... (X is a noun) means "It is X that..."
These are poetic/classic language used mainly in lyrics and such nowadays. If you use these expressions, it sounds either too formal or humorous.
As for the form used there, I think たる is just an obsolete way to say ている, i.e., an old style of the progressive form. So, in short, たる = ている + certain poetic sense.
Note that this is not a formal explanation or anything. I learned this kind of grammar like 15 years ago and completely forgot how teachers explained syntax, semantics and whatnot, though I can properly use language of that register and understand the language variation. Hopefully, more knowledgeable anon will give an explanation of the grammar in detail.
In case you didn't know, 来ぬ also is poetic/old fashioned. It is pronounced こぬ or きぬ and means "do not come" or "have come (or "just came")," respectively.
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Anonymous2008-09-29 9:15
I realise that it is poetical language. It is a song after all.
I thought 来ぬ, specifically the ぬ, is an old way of saying "nai". In this case, "The dawn will not come". I suppose "The dawn has just come" makes more sense.
Cheers for the reply.
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Anonymous2008-09-29 11:43
>>354
Maybe you're talking about 複合動詞? If so, this site explains them in great detail:
The article is part of an HTML version of 現代日本語文法概説, an unpublished tome on Japanese grammar. Apparently the book is for native Japanese speakers so it'll be too intricate to read through, but I think you can pick many more examples of 〜込む-ish verbs out of the page. You can find the list that looks like this:
aspect modifier: 出す, 続ける, あがる, やむ, etc.
direction: 出る, かける, 入れる, 下がる, etc.
degree emphasis: 果てる, 抜く, 尽くす, etc.
mutual action: 合う, 合わせる,
others: 過ぎる, 間違う, etc.
As for なってきた, the verb+て+verb form belongs to a different category from 複合動詞, and the attached verbs such as きた in your example is called 補助動詞. These are listed and explained here:
hey. how do you say 'loan word' in japanese. in inglish 'calque' means 'loan word' which is a calque (loan word) of the frech phrase 'to copy'. thanks in advance
this might be random XD but are there any good 'typing of the dead' style typing tutors for kana input? i'm trying to learn to touch type with a japanese keyboard layout and failing >:3
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Anonymous2008-10-05 10:34
>>362
Loan words in Japanese nowadays are often English,
so you can interchange it with カタカナ語。
横文字 sounds a touch retro, but you can still use it.
>>361 >>365
外来語 is neutral and can be used both in formal and informal language. In a narrow sense, 外来語 excludes the Chinese vocabulary and its derivatives, but sometimes it includes loan words from Asian languages. Technical terms are often regarded as jargon, not 外来語, unless they are part of daily vocabulary.
カタカナ語 sounds slightly informal and sometimes carries a negative connotation. Obviously it excludes loan words in Kanji such as Chinese words. The negative sense stems from the fact that they don't exploit the ideographic feature of Japanese and that many カタカナ語 has already synonyms in kanji in the first place, i.e., it may imply "Don't fuck up Japanese, you faggot."
横文字 includes all kinds of imported word from Western countries. Not only does it include カタカナ語 or 外来語 from European languages, but you can refer to, say, English words in Latin alphabets in Japanese text. The Japanese words in my post are opposite to 横文字 in the sense that they are written in kana and kanji and mixed in an English post. Sometimes 横文字 carries a negative connotation for the same reason as カタカナ語.
One means "only" as in "there are only two people"
二人ばかりいます。
enumeration + ばかり
The other is "just" as in "I just ate."
食べたばかりだ。
structure is:
verb-た + ばかり
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Anonymous2008-10-09 1:27
>>367
Just to make something clear you didnt' mention
外来語 literally means "words that have come from outside"
横文字 literally means "sideways writing/characters" because Japanese is traditionally written top to bottom, so when you inserted characters/words from non-Sinojaponic languages into traditionally-written Japanese texts, you had to use sideways writing (look at formal texts like academic papers in linguistics using Dutch or English writing) and it will be obvious why that type of thing is called 横文字
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Anonymous2008-10-09 4:50
>>369
Also, ばかり can be used for full of.
eg. 動物園にサルばかりいます。
I know about the other hiragana like わ where they're lazy with the second stroke, but I want to know more stuff. Frankly sometimes I can't even read some of this shit half the time it's just that bad, especially kana that looks like it was wrote like 100 years ago. It looks like some guy with down syndrome wrote it.
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Anonymous2008-10-17 8:43
>>377
Because kana actually originates from cursive chinese script.
Japanese are happy people they have such lovely PM
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Anonymous2008-10-28 5:55
How would you say "In here should be good." in Japanese? y'know, like an expression you would say if you're running to get out of the rain and point to some dry spot under the eaves.
I was thinking "ここで良いと思う。" and then started to doubt my grip on grammar there. Something about it sounds wrong. Or does it?
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Anonymous2008-10-28 6:15
that's right.
but i guess 'と思う' is unnecessary.
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Anonymous2008-10-28 6:25
guess?
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Anonymous2008-10-29 6:21
well it detracts from the fluency.
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Anonymous2008-10-30 6:53
Question: how would you say "sounds like" in japanese?
I don't mean it like "~のような音がする", but like when you say "It's not as bad as it sounds." or "This might sound a little rude,..."
seems like there are tons of ways to say "looks like" in japanese (みたい、そう、らしい、etc) but the only thing I found for "sounds like" is "がましい", which isn't right I think.
>>386
Go relearn everything and come back a few years older.
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Anonymous2008-11-02 6:55
What is the non-slang version of つの that you usually see at the end of a sentence
example from a book I just saw
「なんで俺が命がけで戦ってると思ってんの！ 好きだからだろうが！ じゃなかったら部屋で寝てるっつの！」
at the very end it's there
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Anonymous2008-11-02 8:34
>>388
"verb+っつの" (or "っつーの") in that example is, I think, a colloquial form of "verb+というのにも関わらず+certain omitted part."
Your sentence may be something like
部屋で寝ているというのにも関わらず+（possible omitted part: "Why do you ask?!," "Isn't it obvious?!" or something）
But, seriously, I've never thought that expression was some sort of colloquial form of more "proper" Japanese. I just use it and when I'm to say the same thing in formal language, I'd use a simpler phrase, "verb+います！," i.e., I'd say "さもなければ部屋で寝ています！"
This has the same meaning and conveys pretty much the same connotation apart from the informality.
>>389 >>390
thanks.
I was actually thinking it could be というの cause I know つーか is というか but I wasn't really sure, and didn't know what kind of meaning came from っつの other than an educated guess that it just made you sound frustrated. Now I know though, thanks
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Anonymous2008-11-15 7:41
how does 化 and 的 affect words when they're at the end of a word?
Here's the other lang-8 correction I got:
私は真面目日本語の学生だ。 becomes
私は真面目に日本語を学ぶ学生だ。
I don't doubt the correction, can someone just explain it to me?
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Anonymous2008-11-15 22:29
oops, this should go before the previous post, I accidentally posted it elsewhere:
Does this sentence make sense:
僕は何時か上手になれば, 驚きます。
english: If I ever become skillful [at Japanese], I'll be surprised.
Someone on lang-8 changed it to 僕は何時か上手になれば, 嬉しいです, that's why I'm asking.
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Anonymous2008-11-16 0:54
私は真面目日本語の学生だ。
I am a studious Japanese student.
私は真面目に日本語を学ぶ学生だ。
I am a studious student (who is) studying Japanese.
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Anonymous2008-11-16 0:57
>>396
Well, yes and no.
驚く is when you're surprised because something happened out of nowhere. So it'd make sense if you were all of a sudden fluent in Japanese. Which you won't be. So it's wrong.
In terms of English, 'to be surprised' in this context is to be happy about the situation, thus they changed it to うれしい.
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Anonymous2008-11-16 1:49
>>395
When 真面目 qualifies a noun, you put な at the end of the word. So if it reads 私は真面目な日本語の学生だ。, it's acceptable. But the sentence you got on lang-8 sounds more natural.
As far as I know, both are grammatically correct and a native speaker would say in both ways. But for some reason the latter seems more frequent.
>>396
If you put 我ながら or 自分で between "なれば," and "驚きます," the sentence becomes ok. The two words mean exactly the same thing in this case and sound formal or informal respectively. If you omit 僕 in addition to this, i.e., if it reads 何時か上手になれば、我ながら (or 自分で) 驚きます。, it sounds perfectly natural.
The correction you got on lang-8 is gramattically ok, but has the different meaning; you meant surprised, not happy.
If you wonder why the latter sentence doesn't need 我ながら or 自分で, it's because feeling happy is natural when you get better at something while surprising at yourself implies sort of modesty or humility, and you should use some kind of modifier expressing your self-effacement, which is 我ながら/自分で in this case.
It's not necessary to omit 僕 when you say "...嬉しいです," but it's better not to use it when you put 我ながら/自分で because they clearly indicate who becomes skillful.
On a side note, if you don't want to sound too formal or too informal, you can say 何時か上手になれば、自分のことながら驚きです。. 驚きます is also good and means the same.
Maybe I'm a bit (or, more likely, very) confused, but somewhere I got the idea that adding かなあ to your sentences means something "I guess" and そうかなあ means "I think so". But I'm not sure if this is correct and how to use it, in what context, so I tried several sources to find out its use and I can't find any evidence of this even existing.
Huh?
Help, anybody?
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Anonymous2008-11-24 12:19
>>405
I'd translate that as "More freedom for your laptop"
As you probably know, を is the particle that marks the direct object, and に here marks the indirect object. The verb that would normally come after を is omitted, which I think might be the cause of your confusion. Proper sentences do always end in a verb or an adjective in Japanese, but the Japanese like to omit the verb sometimes, like in this case, when it is not necessary.
You could do this: make sure you know what everything means and repeat the sentence in your mind, stressing に and を, and then fill the blank with a verb.
>>406
I think そうかなあ usually means the opposite, or "I don't think so." Like here:
A: メグミちゃんの新しいジャンパーは本当に似合うよ！
B: そうかなあ・・・。
A: Megumi's new jumper really suits her!
B: I'm not so sure...
As for かなあ, it has a very tentative flavor. Someone else can explain it better than me.
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Anonymous2008-11-24 22:55
そうかなあ＝Tentative & euphemistice, but rather frank, expression of denial or disagreement
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Anonymous2008-11-25 19:34
How the hell do you say "diary" or "journal" in Japanese? Not only write it, but say it aloud? And in the future, how can I find the way to pronounce words that are not hiragana or katakana? (I'm very new to Japanese)
The 'i' is pronounced like the 'i' in 'pink' or 'see'. The doubled k is called a sokuon and signifies gemination, or the doubling of the consonant. Gemination does exist in English pronunciation: say 'back kick' and 'black coat' aloud (and compare with 'bakick' and 'blakoat').
Anyone have any personal suggestions for increasing Japanese vocabulary? I'm pretty knowledgeable with Japanese grammar but fucked because my vocabulary sucks ass.
>>416
I know you were trying to help, but after trying Byki I'm not impressed. They don't use modified Hepburn romanisation (gozaimasu is spelt godzaimasu) and they spell こんにちは as 今日は. And that's only stuff I found in the first deck of flashcards. Also, the registers are all over the place, they use Keigo to say "I'm sorry" (申し訳ありません) while reverting to plain speech for はい／いいえ and 今日は (sic).
But in the end, I found working through a Tuttle workbook to be better for how I learn. Flash cards/SRS suit how some people learn very well, but they were only mediocre for me.
When speaking casually and asking questions, I use の instead of か, か just sounds weird with dictionary form. Is it just me or am I doing it right?
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Anonymous2008-12-07 11:35
>>429
Are you a woman? If not, GJ looking like an オカマ.
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Anonymous2008-12-07 20:21
>>430
It depends on your tone of voice. The か sure sounds manly, but の isn't necessarily feminine.
I'd say it's neutral.
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Anonymous2008-12-08 2:56
I tend to use の a lot in casual conversation. Hasn't earned me any strange looks so far.
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Anonymous2008-12-08 23:25
>>430
You are suck a fucking faggoty dumbass that you just gave me cancer. の is perfectly acceptable for male speech, ESPECIALLY with dictionary form. I mean FUCK, Japanese college guys use fucking わ as a sentence ending particle in the modern era! I went to school in Tokyo and it was わ this and わ that.
の is perfectly acceptable, and you should kill yourself right now instead of infecting noobs' minds with your bullshit.
I know you said you heard people in Tokyo using わ but I'm pretty sure that comes from 関西弁 it just made its way into normal speech these days. (Just to clarify the reason why it's not feminine.)
And, I agree with you on the usage of の at the end of sentences and you are perfectly well within your rights to rage.
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Anonymous2008-12-12 0:03
>>436
It does come from Kansai. It's basically the way to be badass in Tokyo (at least when I lived there) to copy Kansai dialect. To Kansai people, to speak with 標準語 would be a way to sound stiff or stuffy.
Kinda like ebonics vs. Standard American English.
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Anonymous2008-12-12 5:59
thanks, I'm the guy who uses の and asked the question but still a little confused.
So dictionary form plus の is fine, but is か just as acceptable? Does it send a slightly different feeling? To me, 勉強してるか？ sounds kind of weird where 勉強してるの？ sounds more natural.
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Anonymous2008-12-17 3:58
>>438
Both expressions are ok, but they have slightly different connotations.
When you say 勉強してるか？, the question implies they have to be studying now. So, if you say that directly to someone who you think should be studying now, it can be a rhetorical question.
勉強してるの？ is always neutral. It's just a question.
If you ask a friend if his brother is studying and say, "弟は勉強してるか？", you may be worried about his brother because you think your friend's brother should be studying now.
If you say 勉強してるか？ to someone directly, you could mean "I hate to say it, but are you studying?"
When people I don't know talk to me in Japanese and ask me a question, I don't know how to ask the same question back to them without using words like anata. I obviously don't know their name so that's no good.
The only thing I can think of is just saying 貴方は？ but I've always been told to refrain from using the anata word, plus if you're talking to a superior or something it's rude I believe.
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Anonymous2009-01-03 7:15
貴方は？could be impolite, but it's grammatically correct and, if the listener is a stranger and doesn't look older, it's not that rude. If you want to be polite, you can use the polite version of the original phrase, e.g.; if the original question was 東京に行ったことはありますか, then you can say, 貴方は行かれたことがありますか？
Things get complicated when you don't know the listener but are positive that you should avoid 貴方 because he/she looks older or you can tell he's a superior for some reason. Of course, you should be polite so you use the polite form of the original question, but the problem is how to refer the second person.
We (I'm Japanese) take advantage of every kind of clue we can get. For example, if you can guess his title, occupation or the like, you can use it to refer to the second person. If you're certain he's a teacher or professor because you're talking on campus and he doesn't look a student, then "先生は行かれたことがありますか？" If you're a shop keeper and you're talking with a customer, you can say, "お客様は..."
There are many other ways to avoid 貴方. If the second person is obviously a married woman, you may say 奥様. If the second person is with a small kid, then he or she is probably a parent so you may use お父様 or お母様. When they're elderly persons and you're relatively young, you may use おじいちゃん or おばあちゃん.
Another typical technique is indirect questions or rewording if you will. If you're asked if you have been to Tokyo and you want to know if he went there, then you might say, いえ、ありませんが、行ってみたいと思っています。お勧めの観光場所はありますか, which means "No, but I'd like to. Do you know some spot I shouldn't miss?" That way you'll probably know if he has. If you don't want to answer his question, then just replying by お勧めの観光場所はありますか works.
That said, the simplest way is asking his or her name right after you answer their question. And then ask the second person the same question.
you don't use だ with i-adjectives, right? So, what about times when you want to say だろう? You could say でしょう but if you're speaking with friends, isn't it polite which is out of place?
I know with kansaiben you can use や with i-adjectives but だ is kind of tricky
So if I wanted to say, 面白いだろう, would that be the best way, or do I need to say something else to sound more natural?
Correct, but you can circumvent the rule by putting a の (or ん) before the だ:
君の友人はすごく面白いんだね。
ここは寒いのだ。
うれしいのだ！
面白いだろう
だろう after an i-adjective is perfectly acceptable.
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Anonymous2009-01-05 14:32
>>443
As>>444 said, 面白いだろう is grammatically correct, but it's nothing you would say when talking with a friend in an informal situation. I'd say たぶん面白い, たぶん面白いよ or possibly 面白いだろうね. It's too formal to end with だろう in informal conversation.
>>444
>うれしいのだ！
I lol'd. It sounds as if the speaker is an adorable loli or a cute girl in anime, or the phrase is taken from a novel or something where the speaker is very serious. The grammar is perfect and it could be used in certain situations though.
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Anonymous2009-01-05 14:32
What is a good textbook to practice grammar on?
I'm nearly through RtK, currently learning vocab through the JLPT list.
Just going through Genki seems like a joke, because they don't even introduce the に particle.
However, if I try to read it up in Tae Kim's guide it doesn't seem to stick.
Should I just quit whining and go through Genki or is there a better alternative?
Sorry for my bad English, if something is wrong please correct me.
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Anonymous2009-01-05 14:41
no textbook will be perfect, my textbook didn't include stuff genki taught, and genki didn't include stuff mine taught. luckily my teacher used both books throughout different colleges, so he created his own lesson plan to incorporate both textbooks so we werent left behind.
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Anonymous2009-01-05 15:19
>>447
What textbook did you use to supplement Genki?
>>449
No one cares if you think the world is ok or not.
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Anonymous2009-01-07 6:01
所 and 場所
any real difference?
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Anonymous2009-01-07 13:16
>>452
They are synonyms and have quite similar meanings. In many cases they're interchangeable unless you're using idiomatic phrases such as 場所柄, 秋場所, 所違えば and 所々. But 所 has a wider meaning so sometimes you can't replace 所 with 場所 and vice versa.
In general, 場所 tends to mean a physical place, spot, site, point and so on while ところ is often figurative and it covers a wider rage of area-ish meanings. If you replace 場所 with ところ when they're interchangeable, certain vagueness and/or abstractness is often added to the sentence.
Actual usages and the subtle difference are quite difficult to explain in English; it's like explaining the differences between place, site, and spot by using the Japanese language. If you want to fully understand the two words, Japanese monolingual dictionaries often give clear explanations of both words; though you will already know the difference intuitively.
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Anonymous2009-01-10 6:30
Help me, /lang/, I just moved to Japan a few days ago. Before coming, I took language courses for 2 years and am decent with grammar and have a good enough vocabulary.
I'm gonna go ahead an apologize if this is irrelevant, as it's not language specific.
The problem is that every time I have to speak to someone who doesn't speak ANY English, I start to freak out, as in have an extreme panic attack and then go hide in a bathroom for 30 minutes to get away from people.
I know I'm an extreme case, but did any of you ever experience anything like this and, if so, how did you overcome it? I have the potential, I just can't bring myself to do it... :(
>>454
I know what you mean. When I moved to the US, no one around me understood Japanese. When I had to open my mouth, I was just stuck at awkward silence. Sometimes I managed to mumble a few words, hoping they understood me, but I always got an instant reply like "Sorry?" and "What's up?" I even failed to order a latte at a Starbucks. I was like "...I don't know how it's spelled, but I'm 100% positive 'tsup' means I can't hear you or say it again, or something. It only makes me nervous ;_;"
How long are you going to stay in Japan? I'm sure You'll soon overcome the fear. You'll just start getting used to it. It's totally ok to unable to make you understood. People always help you unless they (and you) are assholes. No one would be offended just because you're a learner of their mother tongue. If anything, most of the time even a few words in Japanese make them happy.
Certainly some may be annoyed if you're supposed to be fluent, which I was, but it's a matter of time. You've got some grammar and vocab in your pocket and are now living in the ideal place to hone your conversation skills. As long as you keep learning, everything is going to be all right.
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Anonymous2009-01-12 8:49
What does it mean when someone says 「～だろうが！」 ?
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Anonymous2009-01-12 12:10
>>457
Most likely it represents the speaker's annoyance or irritation and often means "It's obvious!" "Don't mention/ask/argue that!"
or "Get it?" This phrase is one of the most obscure Japanese words that has no direct English counter part. Some examples may help:
A: Who did this? 誰がこれやったの？
B: It's you, asshole! お前だろうが！
A: When are we going to leave? いつ帰る？
B: We should get going right now! 今すぐに決まってるだろうが！(決まってる or 決まっている in proper language means "is obvious," "is plain common sense" or something and is an oft-used prefix to だろうが.)
A: No. I can't. だめだ。できないよ。
B: Man up! 男だろうが！
It could mean "even though" or "doesn't matter."
A: It's a trap. そいつ、実は男だぞ。
B: Doesn't matter! 男だろうが！ (関係ない！ is more natural and versatile translation of "Doesn't matter!" It's just the Japanese language often omits obvious information freely so it's like "Doesn't matter!" and "If it's a he!" work the same way, meaning "It doesn't matter if it's a he.")
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Anonymous2009-01-12 12:28
Ah, the last example works better if it's about a reverse trap and B (B is supposed to be female and straight in this case) says 女だろうが！ because 男だろうが！ often means "Grow some balls," "Man up," and the like. Letters don't carry the nuance well so it may be misunderstood.
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Anonymous2009-01-12 16:09
あの廊下に立っている奴は俺のセックス奴隷で、もちろん後輩です。
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Anonymous2009-01-12 17:23
>>460
Sex slaves shouldn't be allowed to stand in the hall.
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Anonymous2009-01-12 21:10
Why do people use volitional form when only speaking about theirselves?
Any site that explains the text emoji?
like in m9（＾Д＾） the m are the knuckles and the 9 is the finger being pointed at you
there's tons like ヾ(≧∇≦*)〃. Like why is there a *, isn't that like sweat even though it looks excited? Then I can't even understand the arms.
(〃▽〃) ←4 eyed demon?
no commento
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Anonymous2009-02-10 22:25
I'm having problems structuring a sentence
Also, can you use こと twice in a sentence and not sound strange?
[They] have never heard of her
彼女のことは聞いたことがない
That seems maybe fine, but I've left out 'They'
This is where it gets weird, if I want to say 'They' how do I go along doing so?
彼たちは彼女のこと「particle」聞いたことがない
What particle do I use there? both は and が are used, and it just seems weird to use either in the middle.
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Anonymous2009-02-11 1:17
>>468
You can use こと multiple times in a sentence without sounding foreign. Actually your first example sentence is perfectly grammatical and sounds natural. Technically you can use こと more than twice if necessary, e.g.,
彼女のことを聞いたことがないなんて、おかしなことだ。(It's strange that [you/they/whatever] have never heard of her.)
As for the subject and particle problem, there are several ways to circumvent the no-multiple-は rule. A quick fix would be using another particle that is similar in meaning. In your case, を does the job:
彼らは彼女のことを聞いたことがない (Not important, but 彼ら sounds more natural than 彼たち.)
Replacing 彼女のことを with 彼女について also works fine in this case.
Another sophisticated way is changing your wording entirely. This requires a firm grasp of Japanese grammar and large vocabulary. Also, this may fall into the category of style, so I guess you don't need to systematically learn how to change a sentence.
That said, using は/が twice is ok in an informal situation especially when some artificial fix is needed to avoid double は/が. Certainly it is awkward if you "write" 彼らは彼女のことは聞いたことがない and it's grammatically wrong, but native speakers often "say" that kind of sentence in conversation and the sentence makes perfect sense.
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Anonymous2009-02-12 9:23
>>469
Thanks a bunch for the reply. You even answered a lot of the questions I didn't ask which is awesome.
I've actually got a question about こと
So far I've only seen it in the context of 日本に行ったことがありますか？
Does it mean "have you ever" more or less in english?
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Anonymous2009-02-13 18:15
>>471
Yes and no. One of important meanings of こと is quite similar to one of many meanings of the past perfect tense in English. The shared meaning is one of the most frequent usages of こと, so "past tense + ことがある" often means "have done" as in "I've been to Japan" means "日本に行ったことがある."
Certainly, when you translate a Japanese sentence using "past tense + ことがある" into English, a natural translation is most likely "...have ever done...", but the way a native speaker is grasping the meaning is quite different. I think it's just a coincidence, not a grammatical similarity.
I think こと is often used to keep a certain mental distance from the semantics of a sentence. For example, if you asked 日本に行きましたか？, the listener would feel you are direct and interested in the fact (a police officer may use this sentence structure when he interrogates you). If you put こと and say 日本に行ったことがありますか？, then you're indirectly asking the same thing and keeping a distance from the actual semantics "I ask you whether you have been to Japan."
I said 彼らは彼女のことを聞いたことがない was "They have never heard of her" in >>469, but technically 彼らは彼女のことを聞いていない also means the same (note that the latter sentence uses こと only once). The difference is that in the latter case the speaker is focusing on the fact that they don't know her, and maybe he is mentally involved, e.g., if you say 私は彼女のことを聞いていない, then you might be upset and could be implying someone should have told you about her while 私は彼女のことを聞いたことがない may imply you don't care if someone told you because the こと in 聞いたこと implies a mental distance.
The same goes for the slight difference between 彼女のことを聞いていない and 彼女について聞いていない (the former may imply your indifference to her), though the distinction is so subtle they're practically interchangeable. So, if you say 私は彼女のことを聞いたことがありません when you're asked if you know of her, the questioner may reply, "What are you getting at?" because the sentence could mean you're not interested in her or want to hear about her, and you could sound like you're superior. Of course, the nuance depends largely on your tone of voice and the literal meaning is the same as 私は彼女について聞いていません, which means "I've never heard of her," but there is a difference.
Anyway, you may not need to learn subtle nuances by dissecting a sentence using grammar. I think this kind of thing is one of the more difficult grammar points that you can't learn by translation (into English, of course). Actually the past perfect tense in English is one of the most difficult things for Japanese speakers to grasp, so it stands reason that Japanese grammar rules related to the English past perfect tense are harder to learn (for English speakers).
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Anonymous2009-02-13 18:31
Can someone answer what the -たんだ ending for verbs means? What's the difference between:
私は林檎を食べました
and
私は林檎を食べたんだ
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Anonymous2009-02-13 22:53
>>473
In your example, anything can follow the former sentence as long as it makes sense while it is more natural if the のだ version is followed by something like だからおなかいっぱい (so my tummy is full now). So if you reply, "林檎を食べました" when you're asked why you skip lunch, it sounds a little awkward, but 林檎を食べたんだ is natural.
Grammatically んだ is a spoken form of のだ, which places an emphasis on reason, determination, or meaning. But in reality, most of the time んだ just smooths the path to the next sentence or makes the meaning clear by restricting possible connotations/implications. I think it emphasizes a sentence only when the speaker's voice and expression is strict/harsh/whatever, in which case you're pretty sure about that anyway.
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Anonymous2009-02-14 20:06
>>473
tl;dr version (no offense to >>474 solid explanation)
私は林檎を食べました
i ate an apple
私は林檎を食べたんだ
It is expected/the reason is that i ate an apple
Your sentence isn't really a good example
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Anonymous2009-02-15 1:51
who the fuck writes it as 林檎?
fucking kanji obsessed weeaboos,
that's why 99% of you never learn jpn
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Anonymous2009-02-15 2:14
agathion
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Anonymous2009-02-15 3:06
>>476
It's not that rare. I can't write 檎 correctly but can recognize the character because I've seen it many times in my everyday life. You'd see it on a cardboard box or on a price tag in your average grocery if you lived in Japan. Also the word 林檎病, which means erythema infectiosum, is very common. Of course, if you're the kind of person who doesn't know what erythema infectiosum means, then I don't think you should learn 檎.
lol faggot erythema infectiosum is not a common word. eat my small asian penis.
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Anonymous2009-02-15 4:57
>>479
I think most of educated Japanese adults know that 林檎病 (fifth disease) and 伝染性紅斑 (erythema infectiosum) refer to the same disease. Didn't you know that?? English isn't my first language, but still I know that. I guess you're very young or English isn't your mother tongue. I'm sure you'll be familiar with those words in your native tongue by the time you consider having children (it's most common in kids).
林檎病 is πέμπτη νόσος
伝染性紅斑 is λοιμώδες ερύθημα
常識だよ、マジで知らなかったの?信じらんないｗ
ΣΑΓΕ
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Anonymous2009-02-15 7:36
I didn't know what erythema infectiosum is (I have heard fifth disease) and I doubt many people I know would. Admittedly I don't know anyone who has or wants children, or who ever comes into contact with children, so it's likely more common knoweldge than it seems to me, but either way 伝染性紅斑 gives way more hits in google that erythema infectiosum, so it's probably more known in Japan.
As far as my experience goes the average Japanese is usually better at knowing precise names of random things, and other small facts like that, than the average Westerner - I would guess because they do more hardcore memorizing at school, and with names because kanji make it easy to see what it means whereas comparatively few people can figure it out from Greek or Latin.
I know I shouldn't be shitting up the question thread with this but it gets on my nerves when Japanese think that anyone who doesn't know random stuff like this must be really ignorant and uneducated. Maybe I should be more culturally sensitive but fuck it.
With that said, I guess those medical terms are particularly common among immigrants and foreign workers. If you're living in a foreign country with your wife and kids, obviously names of common diseases which your family members could suffer from are the first priority. If you had a kid, I think you'd want to know about infantile diseases in the local language. This has nothing to do with this thread though.
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not-a-weeaboo!ErY2TknG0w2009-02-16 14:49
i just got Rosetta Stone for Japanese,
and i'm using other online resources, as well.
can this be a successful way to learn japanese?
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Anonymous2009-02-16 19:36
>>476
i had it in Kanji because i copy pasted it. Pretty retarded thing to get upset about.
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Anonymous2009-02-16 21:01
>>484
No one can tell what suits you best because different methods works for different people. But as far as I know, a good dictionary besides free online resources are enough for most self learners. I know this E-J translator/interpreter who used no textbooks at all. She started from scratch when she was 22 and reached near-native fluency by talking with her Japanese friends and watching tv. She said it took 3+ years to be fluent and 3 more years to be a professional interpreter. I guess 6+ years to reach that level is qualified for success.
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Anonymous2009-02-17 7:03
How do you you say sentimental in Japanese? Is there a single word with the same negative nuance it has in English?
I could just look it up, yeah, but I'm after a bit more than a dictionary will tell me. I was thinking about how Japanese media and entertainment is often pretty sentimental, then thought that being the case it's weird I'm not confident how to say "sentimental". I think I've seen 感傷 but I'm not sure what kind of nuance it has.
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Anonymous2009-02-17 8:14
>>15
what's funny is how when you look at them side-by-side, the basic shapes are very similar, which usually denotes a related origin, but it's completely lost on Japanese people.
Most people respond that, "the base radical determines the pronunciation", ignoring that this still points to a common etymological archetype.
>>37
クァ should be pronounced "kwa" (qua)
クア should be pronounced "ku-a" (coo-ah)
Some elderly people may not correctly pronounce the above because they're not experienced with the sounds, but they all understand the differences between them. (although in the case of the second one, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be? perhaps you've encountered a regional phenomenon?)
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Anonymous2009-02-17 8:34
>>487
I'll just throw this out there, since I'm not entirely sure, but I think you're looking for something like なさけない. It's of course negative, and is often used in relation to over-blown sentiments etc.
It's an adjective, though, so you'd need some context added, but
”情けないやつ” and "sentimental person" (like you mean) would pretty much be interpreted the same. I do think 情けない has a harsher connotation than "sentimental" does, though, so be careful.
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Anonymous2009-02-17 9:14
>>487
By "negative nuance," do you mean sentimental in the sense of "over-sentimental" as in "It's a very sentimental play"? Or the nostalgic sense as in "The photographs are of sentimental value only"?
感傷 has connotations of sadness, loneliness, pity, love and so on. In this sense, 感傷的 and "sentimental" refers to very similar notions. But it doesn't mean "emotional in an exaggerated way" and I can't come up with a single word that means this sense of "sentimental." If you want to say "sentimental" as in feeling pity or love for things in the past (as a kind of synonym of "nostalgic"), 哀愁 is more appropriate. There are a lot more words that are similar to "sentimental" in meaning such as 感情的 (closer to "emotional"), 悲傷 (sadness is emphasized) and 人情 (one of famous words which defy translation into English due to cultural differences).
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Anonymous2009-02-17 9:53
>>488
Are you aware that you're responding to almost a year old posts?
Anyway, >>37 is me. There's no proper pronunciations for those. Also, if you're really good at Japanese, you'd realize how difficult to pronounce くあ as its spelling suggests. You'd automatically insert very slight "w" between く and あ. If you're Japanese, you're unconsciously doing this.
Try saying アクアリウム (aquarium) in Japanese. If your Japanese fluency is native or near-native, it falls somewhere between アクワリーム and アクアリウム. Another good example is チャンピオン. You'd sound like チャンピヨン if your pronunciation is perfect because you automatically insert slight "y" after ピ. This "y" is more noticeable than the "w" between く and あ though.
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Anonymous2009-02-17 16:39
>>491
I do that but I always thought it was because my pronunciation is shit.
Anway >>487 was me and the answers gave me what I was looking for, so thanks. (For the record I did mean negative in the sense of over-sentimental.)
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Anonymous2009-02-17 18:12
>>491
so howd you pronounce アクアリウム and チャンピオン if your not near-native? its pretty much impossible not to automatically insert a slight w or y sound when pronouncing these words imho.
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Anonymous2009-02-17 18:14
ps. well for me anyway but then again english isnt my native tongue so maybe its different for you
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Anonymous2009-02-17 21:52
Apparently it depends on your mother tongue. I guess this slight w/y thing is sort of Japanese accent in its own language because it often happens in loan words which have unusual phoneme combinations. くあ becomes more like くわ (mattock), りう is influenced by りゅう (dragon), and so on. And younger generations often adopt new combinations and are "better" at pronunciation in general. My dad's アクアリウム almost sounds like アクワリューム and I wouldn't be surprised if kids these days pronounce アクアリウム with less or no w/y.
>>496
Again with the kanji obsession, why can't weeaboos just die already?
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Anonymous2009-02-18 16:42
>>496
クアリウム is the thing you have in your room, 水族館 is the big place you go to and say "Oooh" at sharks, and I don't know exactly what >>497 is whining about this time nor whether he's trolling or just stupid.
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Anonymous2009-02-18 18:14
Oh. I thought we were talking about where you visit, since that's what springs to mind when I think of aquarium. Lol varieties of English.
without gaijin you would still be living in the fucking stoneage like you did before commodore perry owned your sorry little asses so show respect for the 白人様 will ya
買う is an action that takes place over a really short amount of time, and thus it falls under the "past action that holds true until present moment" verb category, and the English translation would actually be "bought", no?
行っている is "went" and 来ている is "came"; why is 買う an exception to this?
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Anonymous2009-02-21 6:10
>>504
Because trying to understand thins kind of thing by simply translating it into English (or in the long run even by explaining it in English) is stupid and pointless, so people either get it wrong or don't bother to explain it properly? It's not necessarily "bought" either. I googled for an example rather than just making one up; first hit was "おまえらどんな靴買ってるの？"
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Anonymous2009-02-21 7:22
>買う is an action that takes place over a really short amount of time, and thus it falls under the "past action that holds true until present moment" verb category, and the English translation would actually be "bought", no?
No offense to >>504, but I literally lol'd when I read this. I wonder how your brain processes language when you speak your mother tongue. I think grammar is pointless when it comes to language acquisition. It's for linguists to dissect a language, not for you to speak it. When you're confused by native speakers' grammar, the only explanation you need is "That's the way it is."
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Anonymous2009-03-03 6:49
Got a sentence to translate, only a few words that make no sense i can understand, so no context-guessing. Care to help me?
俺が勝手に手伝行てるだけだし気にすんなて!
"I'm helping you of my own accord, so don't worry about it" ->
"I'm helping you coz I want to. Don't worry about it."
or something to that effect
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Anonymous2009-03-03 13:08
>>510
Seems like it, so thanks!
And with that, another question. Wi and We.
ゐ ゑ ヰ ヱ
In none of my few textbooks i was able to find these kanas.
I'yet to see any sentence with these in use.
So, what about them? Are they so rare, or obsolete? Is there a point in using them?
I theoretically could memorize them them, as learning them would take just a few minutes for me, but i just have this feeling they just are not in usage anymore.
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Anonymous2009-03-03 15:23
>>511
You'll no doubt come across them used for effect (old fashioned style, weird sound, etc.) at some point, and of course if you start reading pre-war stuff, so you may as well make sure you remember them. Especially if you read, or plan to read, a fair bit you'll come across old style orthography and classical grammar more than you might expect.
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Anonymous2009-03-03 23:06
>>511
Those kana are obsolete in some sense, but you'll see them in a lot of proper nouns such as ヱビスビール. Actually my grandma has ヱ in her name.
That said, you may not come across them very often. Maybe rarer than those complicated kanji beyond Jouyou 2000 level. Certainly native speakers are familiar with ゐ and stuff, but I think you can learn the old fashioned kana later when you need them.
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Mechanical translation of 5152009-03-05 8:53
If a foreigner watches a Japanese in particular, and even してるってのは, some one's history know it; is かるだろ for all.
At first resources go really, and the thing being terrible. A handicap as it was already picked off both hands both legs.
Besides, as for what is terrible, besides, 70% of the country very small normally are a mountain, a mountain, mountains in population of American a one-third, only a one-25th territory. なーんにもない, mountain ...
Therefore I export it by agriculture, and it is not possible even to eat. The country which is not funny judging from a condition in the LDC and MSAC either.
Such a country defeats Russian and 清 which were the world strongest class plainly in those days before approximately 100 years, and a white man permanent post club joins it commonly in a nonwhite nation and in addition I turn it to the American enemy and fight in ガチ and bomb Continental United States alone in the world and do it in British invincible armada フルボッコ and defeat the Netherlands and let you have a hard time so as to let you drop an atom bomb alone in the world and. It is 2, besides. 2.
It is not thought. Though I say defeat, please all delete a white colony from Asia because of Japan.
If an unbelievable thing loses for war, and the country which there is not is all smashed up to infrastructure more normally by nothing, and think that finish it without let carry it on its back to a large amount of indemnification, and the yellow monkey which is impertinent this time in the extreme poverty weakening nation which did it disappears in the 100% comeback inability, and watching ウザイ face for several hundred years, participate in the white man society by economy again promptly, and is corrupt, and outrun even U.S.A. by overtaking to filter participation in a war where in no time, besides, in only 2,30 years; and the first place world.
It is a ポカーン・・・ state with transcendence economic power as it becomes ridiculous value as it can buy the American whole land only in land of Tokyo (゜ Д ゜) in the world. It is the second place maintenance all the time afterwards. Shave it with one head.
80% of the economy are domestic demand, besides. Shave it only by domestic demand. I yet never go by finance, and I do not finish going still more, and shave a car and a household appliance, an industrial product peach. It is already a level of キチガイ.
Make growth, and there is too much it; ワロタ. Be elaborate without invading 60 one a year after the war without beating. I match any mind with world most longevity country.
It is comics / an animated cartoon game in んで this time. I surpass a scale of Hollywood long ago if I notice.
With an animated cartoon Japanese what become the first place by an American search. With an animated cartoon Japanese a picture work most popular all over the world.
The Imperial Family possession of the top where the long Royal Family do not become than the name of a country that labelling it is the world's longest, no white man of 2000.
The history that is represented by an emperor. Such a country is fearful and wants not to be concerned if I make normal nerve.
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Anonymous2009-03-12 22:54
I saw one of the hayadain videos(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UoyjKK8CoY) and the wind character said something along the lines of "そこもね" the translators translate that as "yeah, sure"
What is she saying? I can't hear exactly what she is saying.
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Anonymous2009-03-13 2:03
>>518
It's そうかもね
そう - so / seeming
かも - may / might (be)
+ ね
So, "Maybe so", "Could be"
I'm confused about if I should speak casually or politely when I'm with a friend and a superior/boss/teacher
Do I just switch back and fourth between causal speach and polite speech? Or do I just stick to polite? Seems kind of weird to talk to a friend when using masu and desu, heh.
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Anonymous2009-03-20 6:41
It's not like you won't make 8192 mistakes when trying to use 敬語 so you might as well just stick to casual speech. 日本人 will laugh about your poor language skills either way because it's completely impossible to master japanese perfectly.
>>535
ネットでは別として、リアル世界ではとりあえず「いつでも敬語」の原則が無難。他人から「こいつなれなれしい外人だな」と思われると嫌われるぞ。日本人はas reserved as the Englishだからな。いずれにせよ日本語に浸っているうちにいつ敬語を使うべきか、いつ使わなくてよいかの違いぐらいわかってくる。まだおまえは日本語文化の空気が読めてないんだよ。
>>528
You cannot master English perfectly, either.
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Anonymous2009-03-22 4:33
>>538
Yea that's true but I think I have mastered it pretty well and it's nowhere near as difficult as Japanese. I don't think I'll eve speak Japanese as fluently as English because as I said Japanese is impossible to master.
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Anonymous2009-03-22 6:38
>>539
If you threw out the kanji shit, Japanese is pretty simple intuitive-grammar language being compared to (for example) Russian. Additionally, it recently got a shitload of English loanwords, thus becoming even easier.
On the separate note, after years of learning English I still can't feel it as a language that anyone really speaks as a mother tongue. It's like mathematics, I'd say.
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Anonymous2009-03-22 7:04
>>540
I think Japanese Grammar gets harder the more you study it. Up to JLPT3 or so it's easy as pie I agree but after that it gradually gets harder. Well and most loanwords have been so assimilated into Japanese phonology that most of the time you still don't get wtf they are talking about IMO.
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Anonymous2009-03-22 8:45
>>539
You can “master” Japanese just as well as you can “master” English. It takes a lot longer because most of were not raised in a kanji using culture.
In five years time I have managed JLPT1, good speaking and listening skills with long-term practical experience, and I am capable of reading research articles within my field in Japanese and discussing my own research and thoughts in Japanese. Give me another five years, and I will be able to speak fluently and be capable of reading and writing anything I want in Japanese without needing a dictionary any more than I do for English or my native language.
But I do sometimes need a dictionary for my English as well as my mother tongue, so if by that definition I have not “mastered” those languages, than Japanese cannot be mastered as well. By that definition most Japanese have not done so either.
How much Japanese is it possible to learn in one month of straight study IN Japan?
I have an opportunity to go, but I want to make sure I'll be able to learn enough to say... teach myself the rest when I get home, through music.. or Rosetta Stone. Stuff like that.
nothing. seriously what do you expect? if you truly want to learn japanese, you should check your local university. they will usually let you take courses even if you are not a student there.
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Anonymous2009-03-23 15:50
>>547
I dunno. Depends on how much you pay attention and actually study. If you just go there and listen and expect to learn you're a dumbass but if you study shit every day then go out and listen you might be able to learn a good amount of basic shit and maybe more.
Well you know... Japan might be a good place to learn Japanese... crazy thought I know, but oh well.
Aside from the sarcasm, it's because taking a 4 credit hour class in another country looks good on applications and resumes, specifically... it looks good on applications for places I want to go, and it will look good on a resume to the employer I would like to hire me.
>>552
be aware of the notorious japanese racism then. have fun being constantly stared at and people standing up when you sit down next to them in trains etc. they generally won't talk to you even if you speak perfect japanese.
>>555
I guess you are right. I shouldn't expect otherwise from a bunch of degenerate low life racists. I mean just look at them, I have yet to see a single attractive japanese woman, so it's only natural they developed an inferiority complex.
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Anonymous2009-03-24 9:18
>>554
that's not racism at all. their characteristic shyness and reservedness account for that. japanese are the least racist of the peoples in the world. you're mistaking them for koreans.
the japanese say they loathe both racism and koreans.
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Anonymous2009-03-24 9:22
>>559
Yea right. So it's not racism if I as a white person stand up when a black person sits down next to me? I mean I'm just a shy person, you know. Please do me a favour and look up Nihonjinron and then come back here. And no, it's not only a few freaks but the majority of all Japanese people that believe that Nihonjinron bullshit. Have you even ever been to Japan?
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Anonymous2009-03-24 9:25
>>562
japanese are contemptuous of racism, koreans and australians.
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Anonymous2009-03-24 9:27
>>560
Yea, Koreans are also a bunch of racist bastards, I'm sure. But I don't really give a fuck about Korea, I studied Japanese so that I could play visual novel.
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Anonymous2009-03-24 9:28
Because Anime and Visual Novel are pretty much the only good things to have ever come out of this fucking piece of trash country.
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Anonymous2009-03-24 9:32
>>562
then it is prudent you interpret that by their characteristic shyness and reservedness, not racism at all.
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Anonymous2009-03-24 9:39
>>565
introspect yourself, and you’ll find it is in fact not japanese but you that are racist. they only get on their guard against your hatred.
>>568-570
that's why japanese loathe both racism and koreans.
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Anonymous2009-03-24 9:52
>>567
Yup and it's their fault I turned out like this. When I first arrived in Japan I was actually looking forward to living here but now that I realized they are all just a bunch of racist bastards I couldn't care less about this pathetic country. The only things japanese I enjoy are visual novel and anime. Food tastes like shit, people are ugly as fuck, language has got to be the most fucked up in the world, people are extremely racist. So please tell me what's so great about this country?
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Anonymous2009-03-24 9:59
>>572
not their fault but YOUR own fault, fool. what’s the point in telling the anti-japanese paranoid how great japan is?
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Anonymous2009-03-24 10:04
The point is, Japan is one of the most pathetic countries in the world and it makes me laugh to see all the fools on the internet instantly coming to Japan's rescue when they have probably never even been there on a holiday. Japan doesn't want and they don't like you. They are racists and should be treated as such.
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Anonymous2009-03-24 10:15
>>574
that’s merely what you think about japan and not what the others think, by which you’re only proving you’re paranoid. go and see a psychiatrist.
ITT: two retarded japs are claiming that each other is a weeaboo, resulting in an unending series of shit trolling noone cares about since nobody understands Japanese here.
くて is used on the end of Adjectives to connect them to the next part of s sentence. eg 寒い －＞ 寒くて
たら is connected like the て form verb. It is used for if/when statements
eg 窓をしめったら部屋は暑いが成りましょう
If you shut the window the room shall become warm
im not sure about naku. Can you put it into a sentence?
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Anonymous2009-04-02 6:36
>591
Х 窓をしめったら部屋は暑いが成りましょう
√ 窓を閉めたら部屋が暑くなります
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Anonymous2009-04-06 1:25
>>589
くて (で when a な adjective) is used when using multiple adjectives. So, if I wanted to say "a cold, dark room":
寒くて暗い部屋
Also, くて (に when a な adjective) is used when describing adjectives with other adjectives (forgive me, I don't know the grammatical term for this)
an "outrageously expensive watch"
無法に高い腕時計
>>589
For this and all your Japanese grammar needs, I recommend Makino and Tsutsui's "A Dictionary Of Basic Japanese Grammar". It's helped me quite a bit.
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Anonymous2009-04-11 23:53
I have a question about Teaching English in Japan. I know the job sucks and you don't get paid much if you don't know Japanese, but let's say you go to a college in Japan learning English like the Japanese do. Japanese get paid pretty good as an English teachers where foreigners don't, but if you could teach like a Japanese could while being a native English speaker, wouldn't that make you high in demand with really good pay?
>>600
Because if you only know English then you need a Japanese teacher who can teach rules, where the guy who knows English can't teach a damn thing besides conversations and correcting things that sound weird.
If you could do everything, you wouldn't need an English teacher monkey to stand on the side since you could do both jobs. Plus you would be doing the Japanese job which can get like 2x the pay as the monkey.
Hey /lang/, I want to make my brain know Japanese. What do you folks find is the most efficient way to learn?
I know all that hiragana and katakana stuff already, but I would also like to learn me some kanji.
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Anonymous2009-04-15 23:43
>>602
Thanks for the link. It's just a consideration. Although of course getting to that level in Japanese would be tough. I'm already fluent but I constantly make mistakes.
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Anonymous2009-04-16 23:51
Guys, how would you translate this question?
"Do you believe you're nuts/crazy?"
貴方は 貴方が 頭おかしいだ と 思いますか？
I'm 100% sure that's wrong, but I can't get a decent way of saying that.
Well, no I don't, but I'm willing to make that commitment. Can you explain to me why my Japanese would have to be better than a natives?
Either way, I have about five hours of free time a day to dedicate to studies. Three of which are already dedicated to programming, science, and maths, two of which would presumably go to learning foreign languages. I'm sure, given enough time, I could cram a decent amount of the language, right?
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Anonymous2009-04-17 8:49
>>607
grammatically awkward but you'd be understood.
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Anonymous2009-04-17 12:33
>>609
You probably wouldn't ask such a question, but if you "had" to, how would you phrase it?
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Anonymous2009-04-17 13:53
Hey, I was just wondering if I could get some help translating the following sentence: "穴掘って" I believe it means like digging holes or something, but it sounds weird to just put that in English so I'm not sure what would be a good way to render that sentence into English. Thanks.
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Anonymous2009-04-18 5:32
yeah it means "hole digging" which you could use like a noun
if you wanted to say "digging a hole" you would add the wo particle
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Anonymous2009-04-19 20:19
>>Guys, how would you translate this question?
"Do you believe you're nuts/crazy?"
貴方は 貴方が 頭おかしいだ と 思いますか？
I'm 100% sure that's wrong, but I can't get a decent way of saying that.
1) In japanese, there are no spaces, so the above sentence should be written like 貴方は貴方が頭おかしいだと思いますか？ The kanji sort of work as "word seperators".
2) Pronouns are rarely used in Japanese. Japanese is a very context-sensitive language so usually the pronouns are "known" even if they're not said out loud. And I suggest not using 貴方 at all. If possible, try to find a roundabout way to refer to that person, like his occupation or age. I guess おめえ is good enough between friends. Anyway, 貴方は貴方が is very awkward.
3) As for how I'd say your sentence in Japanese, I have some real troubles trying to figure out in what context someone would ask "Do you believe you're nuts/crazy?" even in English or my native language, maybe a psychologist to a patient in a shrink session? Maybe if it was "Don't" more possible contexts would open up. Anyway, maybe something like 頭が可笑しくなっていると思いますか？ Even here, depending on the context, the pronouns may be omitted.
I'm nowhere near native level though but this is just my two cents.
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Anonymous2009-04-20 21:27
Thanks, 613!
Yeah, the lack of a proper "you" in Japanese drives me crazy. Especially since Spanish, my native language, has "usted", a polite and formal word to refer to "you." I guess it's like the German "Sie."
Now, if I'd say to a friend, out of the blue, "頭が可笑しくなっていると思いますか？" wouldn't he reply with "dare ka?".
By the way, this question is a test case, not a real situation.
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Anonymous2009-04-21 9:03
Out of blue, he would think you meant yourself. In that case, you would have to refer to him somehow. If it's a friend I think お前は is ok.
I was thinking more like, your friend was telling you about his problems/depression etc. and you would ask "do you think you're going crazy?"
- 誰か means 'someone', 誰が？ would be correct.
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Anonymous2009-04-21 21:09
Can you folks explain the difference between 天災, 災い, and 災害?
They look mostly synonymous; all if them deal with [natural] disaster, right? Do they belong in specific contexts, are their meanings only slightly different, or what?
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Anonymous2009-04-21 21:23
>>616 you are more or less right.
id use them in these contexts though
Would somebody kindly explain the significance if 一 ｖｓ 一つ？
Likewise, could somebody explain when to use any pronunciation over another? I know there are exclusive instances where kun pronunciations are used in compounds, and I know chinese pronunciations are usually used in compounds, etc., but the idea behind using 四 over 四つ eludes me.
>>633
You see, learning Japanese gives you special mental powers, so you don't need spaces. That's why everyone's better than you, Timothy.
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Anonymous2009-05-07 6:05
I find that I have problems asking questions about parts of speech. Japanese tend to have problems understanding what I say. It's not like I can add square brackets in speech, and って doesn't seem to cut it either.
e.g.
「しては」って、してはいけないしか限らないの？
How can I make myself better understood in confusing sentences like this? Are there better ways to rephrase stuff like this?
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Anonymous2009-05-07 6:12
>>636
Oh and I realized I messed up on my EG. I meant to add a に before the しか限らない
Got three probably stupid questions about kanji, as i've just recently began learning.
1: Which one of these is correct? Or are both correct? What are the differences?
:始めまして
:初めまして
2: I'm using wakan application for learning the kanji, but the buildin editor/dictionary doesn't find the word "dozo yoroshiku". Is that wording correct? How do you write it(using kanji if it's possible to use them there).
3: Doesn't quite understand how was that sentence build.
:お早うご座います
In お早う - お Means it's polite, right?
Also, what does in ご座います - ご means? As i'm seeing in the books it's rather the kanji + kana, in which kana is used for example in verbs (right?), but not kana + kanji. So, of what use is that ご?
As for the kanji, this expression uses only one: どうぞ宜しく
3. お and ご are the same thing. However, their usage differs in that
- お is usually affixed to native Japanese words: お世話, お母さん
- ご is usually affixed to Chinese loanwords: ご意見, ご両親
(As the 'usually' might tell you, there is an exception or two.)
As for your second "kanji+kana versus kana+kanji" question, it's fundamentally flawed. There is no rule on how to use kanji. You can use kanji and kana in any way you want; you can leave the kanji out and write the word in hiragana only, or maybe in katakana if you'd like, or use as many kanji as you can.
And actually, the polite affix お/ご does have a kanji: 御.
Protip: If you've just started learning Japanese, it might not be such a good idea to delve that deeply into kanji yet. Learn your pronunciation, hiragana, katakana, basic grammar and vocabulary first, and then start working on kanji.
It might also help to know that Japanese people themselves usually write all the aforementioned greetings in hiragana.
So, don't fret. Japanese is a difficult language. Don't try to be in all places at once, so to speak, especially during such an early stage in your Japanese studies. がんばって！
>>protip
>>pronunciation, hiragana, katakana
Done.
>>basic grammar
Working on it. Pain in the ass, as i've got problems with grammar in both english and my native language (polish). But still trying.
>>vocabulary
Working on it. Goes smoothly as for now.
Thanks for the protip nonetheless. Your anwser is very good, thank you.
But still, i'd like to know what exactly is the difference between 1st and 2nd hajimemashite, and what do you mean by "not incorrect per se", as i don't have the foggiest idea what that remark meant.
I pretty much know quite a lot of characters (since I have an internediate knowledge of Chinese), and is there any way for me to be able to know what the kun'yomi reading (that IS the Chinese reading, yes?) just from reading the characters?
If not, I guess I should just memorize both readings from scratch?
According to it, there seems to be no consensus on which would be correct. Some sources regard 初めまして as the correct version, while others consider 始めまして to be correct.
Interestingly, the blog post also mentioned a survey that found that young people tend to use 初めまして, while older people tend to favor 始めまして.
(A quick note: in Japanese spelling isn't "fixed" in the European sense. Many Japanese words can be written in multiple ways, for example, うりきれ (sold-out): 売り切れ, 売切れ and 売切 are all correct, although 売り切れ is by far the most popular way to write the word.)
>>645 is there any way for me to be able to know what the kun'yomi reading (that IS the Chinese reading, yes?) just from reading the characters?
Not really. However, you will be able to recognize many Chinese on'yomi readings (kun'yomi is the Japanese reading), which will help you remember the readings (so you won't have to start from scratch), but you can't deduce their Japanese pronunciation just by knowing the Chinese one.
Although, come to think of it, it is possible in some cases... For example, 夫 is read similarly in both languages (J: fu, C: fū). So is 看 (J: kan, C: kàn).
Then again, in cases like 明 (J: mei, C: míng), 月 (J: getsu, C: yuè) and 上 (J: jou, C: shàng) you won't.
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Anonymous2009-05-14 11:12
>>647
Oh, forgot, >>645, when you're learning kanji, pay attention to the stroke order. It's not always the same as in Chinese.
Thanks for the answers and the tips. Do you actually recommend learning the kanji first or the vocabs in general and the grammar structure?
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Anonymous2009-05-16 9:13
>>649
I'd learn the basic vocabulary and grammar first, and then tackle the kanji while starting to learn intermediate grammar and vocabulary. That's the way I've done it, although once I got reasonably confortable with the language there was a period when I only learned kanji and related vocabulary (thanks to that I know 1100+ kanji today, and I started learning the language in 2005).
But of course, you can learn the language in whatever way you want. There's no correct way to learn anything, but doing some things in such and such manner is more beneficial.
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Anonymous2009-05-16 18:53
Well, hello there!
Learning basic grammar, got to the verb construction. Got some problems with -ます -ません
So, for example, how would you translate literally -着きます -着きません? It arrives/it don't arrive? Or in some other way?
ANd then, what are the past versions of these, that it it arrived/it didn't arrive?
Also, how would you say, i'm eating/i'm not eating? When i'm trying to use it, the sentence sounds funny. It looks like this: 私を食べます. However, it sounds not-so-alright, so is it correct, or how shall i say to make this correct?
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Anonymous2009-05-16 20:05
>>651 So, for example, how would you translate literally -着きます -着きません? It arrives/it don't arrive? Or in some other way?
Well, as the meaning of 着く is 'to arrive', then yes, 着きます is 'arrive(s)' and 着きません is 'does not arrive'.
The past tense of 着きます is 着きました, and the past tense of 着きません is 着きませんでした.
how would you say, i'm eating/i'm not eating
The Japanese equivalent of the -ing form is ～ています/～ている. To form it, you need to know the te-form of verbs.
'I'm eating' is 私は食べています, while 'I'm not eating' is 私は食べていません. You do not use を there, but the (very versatile) topic particle は. を is used with direct objects, and は is for subjects. The 'I' in 'I'm eating' is a subject, so は is used.
You should find out what the terms object, subject and predicate mean. It will aid you tremendously in your language studies.
Are you using a textbook of any kind right now? If so, what textbook? A textbook would be very helpful in your studies, and would explain a lot of the things you've asked about here.
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Anonymous2009-05-18 20:24
What does 「ハメ」 mean?
I'm fairly certain it's slang for "fucking" but I don't know for sure.
It is time for me to learn conjugation. I was looking for a game to help me with it, and thought "My Japanese Coach" but the reviews online say it doesn't have a conjugation game.....
Does anyone know of a conjugation game I can play online or whatever or am I stuck with memorizing the charts?
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Anonymous2009-05-26 1:47
>>663
Is there usually a distinction as such in manga, for example? If there are, I really need to look carefully then. One more thing if you don't mind, is it the same case in katakana?
I see わ and は used interchanged often. Why is that?
Also shi vs yo for 4 what conditions should I use each?
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Anonymous2009-06-01 11:42
>>685 Also shi vs yo for 4 what conditions should I use each?
Just hide the pronunciation problems behind the kanji. It's the only one thing kanji are good for.
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Anonymous2009-06-01 12:26
>>686
shi when you're counting something (ichi, ni, san, shi, go)...
Yon in other cases. Yo when it's about time, for example - 四時 is spoken as よじ.
Same with seven ( shichi for counting, nana in other cases.
>>682
Thanks!
But still, one question - What does 邪魔 mean by itself? In お邪魔しました these kanji are transtlated as hindrance, intrusion... that makes no sense.
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Anonymous2009-06-01 12:45
>>684
OWATA means 終わった(it's finished), as in
PS3 OWATA. It's net slang.
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Anonymous2009-06-01 13:40
>>687
Yes, 邪魔 means "burden, disturbance, hindrance." The Japanese like to be (overly) polite in formal situations, and trying to exaggerate the things they've done as impolite by saying お邪魔しました ("I have disturbed/hindered/burdened you") is just them being modest. That's why they also often say すみません when they, for example, accept something that's offered to them.
And another question - how would you say "and?". I'm not talking about the と particle, but as in that example:
"You have done that, didn't you!"
"Aaaaand?"
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Anonymous2009-06-04 4:29
>>690
Please don't be an idiot and think that anything you say in English can be directly translated into Japanese. There's no such thing for that in Japanese, it sounds stupid in English anyways.
But, trying to think of something close to that.. you could use だから何だ to mean "So what?"
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Anonymous2009-06-04 5:49
Anyone know what 熊ですら奴 means? Or just 熊ですら?
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Anonymous2009-06-04 6:47
>>691
What about just "で"? I could've sworn I've heard it be used in the same way he's describing.
Anyone know what 叩きつけろ might mean in the context of a forum post?
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Anonymous2009-06-04 20:24
>>699
no but 2ch should have a guide on one of its pages
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Anonymous2009-06-06 11:50
で and それで definitely mean 'and?', 691 is a 'tard
で is way more rude, but if you want to say something like aaaaand? then yeah it's perfect それで I believe is a lot more polite but could possibly be taken as somewhat rude
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Anonymous2009-06-09 13:08
What are the rules for で and に
ここで/に待ってる
Xで/に降りる
ここで/に住んでいる
ｅｔｃ
I kind of have an idea what should be used by gut or just through google result numbers, but I'm looking more for rules.
Like if you change something to house or something big, it seems like it's で but if it's smaller like a car it becomes に
Then there's other stuff I don't really understand like why you use に in ここに住んでいる but で in ここで待ってる
etcetc
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Anonymous2009-06-10 14:14
how does the suffix 性 modify nouns? I can understand it when it changes something into a noun from an adjective but not noun to noun.
There's a bunch out there but the only things I can think of are 経済性、現実性 and it seems like the meaning is kind of close to -ness (except -ness is only for adjectives)
Does that mean it changes things into an abstract noun? Is 高さ also an abstract noun? If so does that mean さ is basically 性? I'm so confused.
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Anonymous2009-06-11 11:15
I don't know how you learn Japanese grammar but as a Japanese speaker,
I will explain what I thought.
You can think suffix 性 is 性 as in 性質, meaning character/quality.
When you say 論理性, it means how much something has character/quality of
論理 (logic), meaning how logical something is.
経済性 how economical something is
現実性 how realistic something is
論理性 how logiacal something is
危険性 how dangerous something is
関連性 how relevant something is to ---
規則性 how regular/how much regurality some thing has
安全性 how safe something is
>Is 高さ also an abstract noun?
Yeah, I think so.
>If so does that mean さ is basically 性?
さ is something that change adjective to noun.
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Anonymous2009-06-12 14:32
Just a question.
Take care is 'ki o tsukete', right?
So, what kanji shall i use to write tsukete? 付けて or 着けて, as my dictionary says they both have the same meaning? Or is it just plain simple つけて?
Above helps a bit, but I'm still not completely sure.
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Anonymous2009-06-14 7:21
naka - stomache
ippai - full
full stomache.
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Anonymous2009-06-14 7:41
>>708
According to the explanation in your link, you can use お腹いっぱい to express that you've had enough of something (not only food, but also other things, like activities such as karaoke). You can use it in a negative sense (「一曲で十分お腹いっぱいだから勘弁して」) and also in a positive one (「お腹いっぱい、当分歌わなくても平気なくらい」).
I don't think there's much more to it, but since I'm not a native speaker, I might be missing something, too.
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Anonymous2009-06-16 11:18
Any tricks to searching google/yahoo in Japanese? I'm so used to searching in English I know all the ins and outs but when it comes to Japanese, I find it harder to find what I want.
a couple things I found out that have been an absolutely life saverｓ were Xとは to find a definition (searching something like xは何ですか obviously won't be very helpful)
another is 一覧 when looking for any kind of list or anything. Now I know these are just words or grammar but some work 100x better than others and used for like everything
Also, when searching, is it better to use masu/desu or casual, or using written (書き言葉) grammar/words?
Would the Japanese call a Chinese American "americajin" or "chugokujin"?
(i.e. Are these terms based on nationality or ethnicity?)
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Anonymous2009-06-20 0:40
>>714
Chinese American:
中国系米国人 or 中国系アメリカ人
Which both basically mean Chinese Lineage American Person. Works the same as Japanese American:
日系米国人 or 日系アメリカ人
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Anonymous2009-06-20 17:16
Just a question - how you'd write "isshou kan" (for one week, right? Talking about, like, renting a room in a hotel) using kanji if possible? And what does isshou and kan mean in this sentence?
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Anonymous2009-06-20 17:46
>>716
What you mean is "isshuukan". The kanji would be 一週間. Isshuu would mean "a week" and "kan" is something like "a period of..." It's necessary to use "kan" when you are talking about time frames.
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Anonymous2009-06-23 3:58
why is it みんな instead of みっな ? same for other words like こんにちは.
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Anonymous2009-06-23 4:51
cause there's already an n consonant, whereas っ mimics, what ん does for n-phonetics, for other consonants.
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Anonymous2009-06-23 8:23
>>718
Do you even know what っ is? みんな and みっな might be spelled the same in romaji, but they are completely different. っ is a 促音(glottal stop) and it is a character that does not exist in romaji. Although rare, we DO have glottal stops in English speech though. For instance, the middle of Uh-oh where you stop your speech and get ready for the next syllable. If you just said UhOh where it flowed together without a stop we'd have something completely different.
>>722
Sokuon is not produced in the glottis, っ indicates gemination, and so it's not a glottal stop. Gemination (i.e. the lengthening or doubling of a vowel or a consonant) and glottal stops are two different things.
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Anonymous2009-06-25 0:43
The sokuon is also used at the end of a sentence, to indicate a glottal stop (a sharp or cut-off articulation), which may indicate angry or surprised speech.
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Anonymous2009-07-03 8:57
When guys use the の particle at the end of the sentence, it's usually a question, because you can't have だ after it when it's a question. This avoids men from being considered talking like a fag.
But lately I've been noticing that occasionally it can be used without a question for men.
for instance, in valkyria, ep 12 at 9:48, the main guy says, 僕はそう思ってるの. Now, obviously his intonation is the opposite of the girls. Does this mean it's not gay when it's not a question? Or is it still a little feminine?
*expects a bunch of newb replies to tell me that の is 100% female speech because they suck at Japanese*
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Anonymous2009-07-03 13:09
I'm so fucking confused by messages I get.
like
今ゎ1人決めて研究してますょ
why the fuck do they use a tiny わ rather than は? Is it because it's cool? Cute? Or that it's unique thus you can't mix it up or some bs?
There's also the tiny よ. Of course it's not just this person, I see this shit everywhere. Sure I understand it but what are they trying to accomplish with their retarded efforts?
There's also the people who write shit like ｺﾝﾅﾖｳﾆｶｷﾏｽ. Like in a normal message and this shit pops up... Why? To make it stand out more than katakana? To piss you off?
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Anonymous2009-07-03 13:14
>>726
8rO j00 D0 n0+ b3L0N9 t0 thE K3Wl cRowd DO Y0U? k3wl P30Pl3 Ju$T $p34K liK3 tH4+, M@n.
>>734
I was thinking of explaining those points to you later after I got back home but as you seem to be a dick I think I won't. Good luck learning Japanese, you'll need it.
If you have a question about the language, ask it and fellow 4channers might see it and answer it for you.
もしも日本語の質問があるとしたら、ここで尋ねれば4ﾁｬﾝの友達がそれを見て君に答えてくれるかも知れない。
If you have a question about the language, ask it and fellow 4channers might see it and answer it for you.
もしも日本語の質問があるとしたら、ここで尋ねれば4ﾁｬﾝの友達がそれを見て君に答えてくれるかも知れない。
>>735
Meh, I'm not him. It's just I'm sick of seeing that attitude in this board.
Don't believe if you don't want to, I'm not him :awesome:
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Anonymous2009-07-13 0:41
yeah what the fuck? cut me some slack, I've no doubt helped you assholes in other threads when you ask stupid questions.
I was just making sure i was right
the text book I'm using isn't even in my native language.
can someone who isn't a massive douchebag please answer >>731
>>731
>Also when sentences end with を
>What the hell man, what the hell?
Could you give an example? You mean as in something like 「殺しに来ました。あなた達を。」?
If so, I think it's pretty obvious what the を does, it expresses that "あなた達" is gonna get 殺す'd.
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Anonymous2009-07-13 6:00
>>740
that is one example. some are less obvious. like the entire phrase is "noun+を"
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Anonymous2009-07-13 10:21
All the を does is just cut off what you want to say that is understood without going through the effort of saying it all.
I think it has another similar use like, where you combine two sentences in one, and rather than saying a verb twice, you cut the first out by the を and just add the last one.
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Anonymous2009-07-13 22:33
>>742
as i thought (hoped)
Just needed the confirmation.
Ok, so when ever i type the keys "(" or ")" (on my keyboard) they are on a different key (on the screen) like "(" only works if i type "8" in japanese and ")" only works if i type 9 in japanese, also "「" only works if i type "]" in japanese and "」" only works if i type "\" in japanese, additionally, if i type "。" and i cycle through the options i cant create the eyes for kaomoji and lastly i cannot create the "~" symbol in japanese, among other problems, i have no idea what i did wrong but I would really love to fix it!
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Anonymous2009-08-06 18:41
Can anyone help me out with this -ezu conjugation? I was trying to read a light novel when "喜べず" and "悲しめず" came up; I have no idea what this means and how to conjugate it.
To me 喜べず seems to be the ～ず ('without doing something') form of the potential form 喜べる (喜ぶ). Ditto 悲しめず.
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Anonymous2009-08-10 7:37
What is べ at the end of a sentence? I'd prefer a reply from someone who actually knows it rather than someone who just rikai-chans it because I'd like a little more information about it. I don't hear it very often. Is it from a dialect? If so, do you know where?
Also, when it comes to speaking to your girlfriend/wife, is it considered rude to use やる-form? As in, 買い物を買ってやる。 ? Also what about 「俺」？ I know that might be somewhat rude to just a girl, but if it's your girlfriend I imagine it might be different. Then again, I've seen people use polite speech with 「俺」..
"-be" is also a stereotypical suffix of provincialism, sometimes used by young urban people to make themselves sound funny. You can attach it to any indicative predicate:
行くべ
ik-u-be
見るべ
mir-u-be
悲しいべ
kanasi-i-be
>>Also, when it comes to speaking to your girlfriend/wife, is it considered rude to use やる-form? As in, 買い物を買ってやる。?
Not necessarily. But it is less affectionate than あげる.
>>Also what about 「俺」？ I know that might be somewhat rude to just a girl, but if it's your girlfriend I imagine it might be different.
The rudeness of 俺 is determined by the seniority+status, not the gender, of the person you are speaking to. You can use it to a girl whether or not she is your girlfriend.
>>Then again, I've seen people use polite speech with 「俺」..
Yes. You can combine it with the polite "-se/-desu" style:
俺が やります
ore-ga yarimasu
俺に ください
ore-ni kudasai
But using it in a formal public statement is definitely not a good idea.
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Anonymous2009-08-10 14:10
-zu can be used to make negative adverbials
E.g. 何も知らずにやってきた
ーぬ is another one, a bit more unusual. You see it in set phrases and so on
E.g. 変わらぬ
They're both hangovers from classical Japanese
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Anonymous2009-08-12 5:28
>>751
I was talking about the second べ that you addressed. Thanks for the info!
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Anonymous2009-08-12 14:26
日本、ドイツ、イタリアなどによって構成される枢軸国と、イギリス、フランス、アメリカ合衆国、ソビエト社会主義共和国連邦、中華民国などが構成する連合国の間の戦争。
Is it: "The Axis forces were composed of Japan, Germany, Italy and others, while during [the time of] the war the Allied forces were composed of England, France, USA, Soviet Union, China and others."?
A description on the use of では would be very nice too, even just a link to an explanation.
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Anonymous2009-08-12 15:26
>>754
You're overanalyzing the sentence. There's no verb that would tie it all together.
It just says: "The war between [insert the whole allied-axis lithany here]"
"The war between the Axis powers that are composed of Japan, Germany, Italy, etc. and the Allied powers that are composed of Great Britain, France, the United States, the Soviet Union, China, and others."
How does the "どういうわけだか" in this sentence work? How does the particle か work in this situation? Also, does で mean "among" even without superlatives with 中? Can using the -te form mean since? And how do the に particles work in this sentence?
"That was, a novel written for the first time since I was born, when I applied to the literature journal as a newcomer with doubt of the mere mind, "What is the reasoning?", and shined as the first place winner among the youngest in history."
This is my attempt at translating this, I think I've done many, many things wrong here.
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Anonymous2009-08-15 6:57
か marks "どういうわけだ" as a discursive insertion (or just an interjection). If you take this part out, the main sentence is still grammatical.
で marks the instrumental case, "with/at/by ...". "史上最年少で" means "at the youngest age in history".
Yes, the -te form can mean "since". I think it's a type of the so-called ablative cases.
The first に in "新人に" marks the dative case, "to ...". "新人" (newcomer) is one of the categories of the journal to which you can send your novel. The second one in "大賞に" is similar. It means that the sent and evaluated novel rose up to (and won) the grand prix.
"それが" in this context is more like "but", "for all that", rather than the literal "that is/was".
The dative was common among early Indo-European languages and has survived to the present in the Balto-Slavic branch and the Germanic branch, among others. It also exists in similar forms in several non–Indo-European languages, such as the Finno-Ugric family of languages and Japanese.
らい, very informal and masculine, is used when the speaker contends against what has been said by another speaker, by affirming it. For example:
そんなことしちゃだめだよ。 You shouldn't have done that.
わかってらい。 I know that! (You don't have to tell me such an obvious fact!)
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Anonymous2009-08-16 10:15
>>767
Oh really? There's no plain form of らい? I figured it was slang for something considering it doesn't come out in any of my dictionaries. Thanks for the help!
I wasn't being clear enough, so you misunderstood me. I meant that things like で, が, を, に are not cases (even if they carry the same meaning as a case would), but rather particles.
Particles surely aren't cases by themselves. Particles mark what case the adjoining word takes up. In 彼に, for instance, に marks 彼 as a dative case. That's why the likes of に are called 格助詞/かくじょし ("case particle").
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Anonymous2009-08-16 22:55
Anyone have any tips/stories about how they've learned kanji successfully? I'm pretty good with my grammar skills but for some reason kanji is just a pain in the ass for me. I mean, I know a pretty good amount, don't know an exact number but probably somewhere around 500, and most of that is just being able to recognize and know it from seeing it so much reading manga and etc. I'm wanting to at least learn all of the jouyou first but my brain just seems to be retarded when I'm trying to study kanji.
Any tips? Getting tired of knowing grammar really well but being fucked over by kanji.
A case is the grammatical function of a noun/pronoun within a context such as a phrase or a clause. In Japanese, they are mostly marked with case particles like に, を etc. を itself is not a case, but the word to which it attaches has one.
私は魚を食べる。 watasi-wa sakana-o taberu
In thisi example, 私 is a subject and is so marked with は, and 魚 an object marked with を. In colloquial Japanese, however, some of these case particles can be elided and the cases don't fail nouns/pronouns:
私魚食べる。 watasi sakana taberu
This is because the cases are something that is primarily held not by the particles but by the nouns/pronouns themselves. The particles are just a collection of markers. And in this particle-less instance the cases are mostly marked with the word order.
It depends. は can mark the topic, the subject, or both. In 私は魚を食べる, 私 is both the topic and the subject. は exclusively marks the topic for a word only when が marks the subject (or the focus) for another word. Example:
Since the topic and subject are practically the same thing in English, and a Japanese sentence does not need a "subject" to be grammatical, saying that は can mark the subject as well is not wholly correct.
Also, the specification use is technically the same as the topic marking use.
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Anonymous2009-08-22 17:05
Sorry if this isnt totally relevant to the topic, but I dont want to start a new thread for it.
What are the better japanese learning software. Rosetta stone comes to mind but I wanted to know if there was any better software out there, or if Rosetta stone is any good in the first place
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Anonymous2009-08-24 19:43
>>778
Rosetta Stone is shit. Learn through textbooks and dictionaries.
I'm currently studying japanese and I learned hirgana, katakana, a few kanji and I know some basic grammar and words. I now want to put it into some practical use and read something. Do you guys have any tip on what I could read? Even children books could be fine as long as there isn't just one word and a picture. And yes, I'm prepared to look up a lot of words and probably tons of kanji.
>>786
I know it's probably too early for me. But I want to read some just for fun. It's not like I'm going to stop studying because I could actually read something for once.
>>785
I bought some 1st grade books. "Nihon no mukashibanashi" and "Nihon no otogibanashi." They are quite old, but easy to read, it's pure hiragana. I bought them used in some garage sale.
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Anonymous2009-08-30 17:17
>>789
Thanks! I'm having some trouble finding the books, but I will give it another go when I wake up tomorrow. (But if you know a site I would be really grateful, even e-books work). Isn't hard to look up words when there's no kanji?
>>788
I'm telling him to start reading after he has mastered a lot more kanji, vocabulary and grammar.
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Anonymous2009-08-30 20:13
>>791
Which is stupid. As soon as you learn all the hiragana and katakana you should start reading, even if you understand nothing.
When I was first learning and just knew all the kana and the kanji for 1-10, I started reading simple manga like Sailor Moon and etc. While I could understand barely anything and just make out some words here and there, it's still good to do. It helped out my speed of reading/recognizing the kana tremendously.
>>792
Of course you should read stuff even if you have a limited grasp of grammar and vocabulary, but the OP said that
And yes, I'm prepared to look up a lot of words and probably tons of kanji.
which means that he's going to try to read more advanced text, which is not very advisable. He'll take too much in, and probably will just get discouraged if he does that.
>>791
If you know a better way to master these things than using them, I'd like to hear it.
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Anonymous2009-09-04 0:04
Can someone tell me how to refer to the same noun for two or more different functions?
With sentences like
私は田中のために田中と旅行した。
"I went on a trip with Tanaka for Tanaka's sake."
or
私は田中と田中に旅行してあげた。
"I went on a trip with Tanaka as a favor for him."
Can I use pronouns or some different sort of particle to condense that repeating "Tanaka" somehow? It sounds extremely off as it is; the repeating sounds repetitive.
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Anonymous2009-09-05 0:47
What's the difference between
パスワードとなります
and
パスワードになります
I know になります is normal, but となります comes up every now and then
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Anonymous2009-09-05 9:23
I'm learning numbers but with 7 and 4 which version do most people say?
The reason there are different ways to say ７ and 4 is because there are different (commonly used) ways of reading the kanji for them.
七 （７） Can be read as ”なな”（Japanese reading) Or "シチ” （Chinese reading). Same with 4： ”よん” And ”シ”.
Chinese reading is used for like... months: (シチ月)
If you're just counting, you would prob use the Japanese reading. Japanese reading for counting money too.
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Anonymous2009-09-05 15:25
>>802
Counting things other than money usually use the Chinese reading I believe. Like if you were doing an exercise, you'd say the Chinese one. Once you get over 10, you go to Japanese readings for everything I believe though
Does anyone know of a Japanese who took JLPT1? Any idea what score they got?
You always hear it's hard to even Japanese but let's be serious, if they failed, they'd probably be considered pretty retarded. It's probably just the, "I actually need to think for a few seconds" hardness
My problem with the japanese language is that i have trouble building sentences, i can't seem to get the right order in whenever i try, i always freeze when i try to make longer sentences with more adjectives/adverbs etc. i just can't get it together.
Does anyone know of a good way to get past this problem, any pointers? most of the "learn japanese"-sites don't really go into the details of bigger and longer sentences, it's just the usual 1 subject/1 object/1 verb, too simple.
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Anonymous2009-09-20 17:49
>>809
Are you using a textbook? Get a college textbook that has a lot of conversational dialogues. That might help.
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Anonymous2009-09-21 3:20
>>809
so long as the verb is at the end of the sentence it doesn't matter too much. the more you use it the more natural you'll begin to sound, and you will start picking up word order from listening to Japanese people speak. The language was around long before the text books.
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Anonymous2009-09-21 16:30
>>810
Yeah i've gone through a few, Genki 1-2, Genki "3" and now J-Bridge Vol. 2. i must admit i haven't really spent THAT much time reading the dialogues though, i'll make sure to work a bit more on that. >>811
Hmm yeah i guess, i have tried listening to different kind of stuff like easy dialogues from youtube clips, slow songs and whatnot, but i'm still awful when it comes to listening to Japanese. I guess i could spend more time with the Japanese exchange students but whenever i'm gonna answer or say something i blank out completely, when i sit down and write stuff i can usually make a decent sentence fairly quick.
I just wish i could get past that initial hurdle, you know when you reach that point where everything just clicks and you know the basics and everything just starts to flow.
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Anonymous2009-09-22 17:12
こわいなんか
I've never got what なんか means. "like scary"?? doesn't really make sense. I've thought of it as "somewhat" or "kinda". Is that wrong? Someone tell me what it means.
Dunno if this will help but you prob know that なにか （何か） Means "something” Or ”Anything".
So if by the なん In なんか You mean 何 Then it means that, But could be a different way of saying it... Maybe to do with the context its used in.
But when you type なんか And press space, it turns it to 南下 Which means South... :p
So does a model already exist? This sentence implies that one does. Shouldn't you specify which model you want?
よろしければ、そのデータを公開してくれますか？
You should use ～くれませんか instead of ～くれますか here.
Overall, that's very badly written since it leaves a lot of open questions. It would be nice if you wrote an English version which we could translate later. From the information you've given us, this is one possible way of asking Mr. Kani:
I want to use one of your 3D models as a basis for a papercraft that I would like to make. The model is ______. If it is okay, could you make it publicly available, and let me use it? It is for noncommercial use.
Douka yoroshiku onegaishimasu
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Anonymous2009-09-23 11:32
In Japanese essays like in 読解, often, それ/これ/そこ/etc come up. I realize that それ = that, and これ = this and all, but I remember hearing a tip from a teacher that I don't remember well, like これ means the answer to the question is maybe behind it, and それ means there's multiple or it's to come after, I don't remember, just kind of guessing here. Anyone know?
Basically I suck at reading comprehension and want to know these key words that hint where the answer might be.
thanks
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Anonymous2009-09-23 12:01
>>816
You're saying こわいなんか is a contraction of こわいなのか? In other words it means "Is it that it's scary?"? What if なんか came first in the sentence, なんかこわい?
He uses crab_man as nick name and his blog is named KANIBEAM.
I want the 3D model to make a papercraft model.
Looking at his site seems like he knows about papercraft but doesn't seem to make them, just 3D models that looks like a papercraft
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Anonymous2009-09-23 13:18
>>821
So what specific models are you going to request? Just saying that you want 3D models sounds really vague, unless you want him to contact you and discuss it further (which is a good idea). Here's a revised version:
I want to use the 3D models made by crab_man [i.e. you] as a basis for a papercraft that I would like to make. Because the original model is important in order to make it, I would like to use the data related to the models. If it is okay, could you let me use it? Of course, it is for noncommercial use.
thanks! Change crab_man by "anata" wouldn't be more natural? Seems to me that I'm talking about someone else model...
Maybe this is just in my head...
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Anonymous2009-09-25 5:38
>>827
Addressing a person by name (multiple times!) where we'd use a simple "you" does seem patronizing to us Westerners, but it's perfectly normal in Japanese. To me あなた would be a bit too direct, but using it is by no means incorrect, so you can change crab_manさん to あなた if you feel more comfortable doing so.
I just seemed strange to say things like "I will send it to crab_man" when I'm talking with him, but seems like it's a language difference. Thanks! You are helping with my Japanese skills too!
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Anonymous2009-09-26 21:42
Im taking lessons from なませんせい on youtube, and I wanted to know if he is teaching correctly.
ねこ の くそ は ねこ より おおいしい です。 (Cat shit is more delicious than cats)
(I know im not supposed to use spaces, but since all I know is hiragana, I did it so you can read it better.)
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Anonymous2009-09-27 5:13
>>830
Yes, it's correct, but the word "delicious" is おいしい, not おおいしい.
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Anonymous2009-09-28 16:42
What's the meaning of ドギモを抜かれます ?
I saw a lot of occurences of this, but i still can't tell the meaning.
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Anonymous2009-09-28 17:58
Can anyone recommend any Japanese kids shows to aid in the learning of the language?
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Anonymous2009-09-30 1:35
>>832
度肝を抜かれる is an idiom that means to be dumbfounded
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Anonymous2009-09-30 23:40
Hello! I'm >>817
I would like to thank you for your help! I talked with him and he was very nice and allowed us to use his models.
Thank you!
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Anonymous2009-10-01 13:34
can someone tell me why 「行く」 is sometimes pronounced as ”いく” and sometimes as "ゆく”?
also, what does ktkr mean? Is it 来たくれ?
There's also another abbreviation like that, but I can't remember what it is. Thanks anon.
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Anonymous2009-10-02 2:40
>>836 also, what does ktkr mean? Is it 来たくれ?
Well well, simple act of searching by the keyword ktkrとは in Google returns a lot of results containing the answer. Learn how to japinternet!
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Anonymous2009-10-09 23:34
ringo wo tabeyou to omou
or
ringo wo tabetai to omou
Which is more correct for "i think i'd like (to eat) an apple"?
Bad example i know...
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Anonymous2009-10-10 18:44
>>838
I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure "ringo wo tabetai to omou" would be more of what you're looking for.
"ringo wo tabeyou to omou" means more like... "I think I will eat an apple."
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Anonymous2009-10-10 20:42
How should I start learning kanji
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Anonymous2009-10-11 8:44
>>836
ゆく is often used in songs cause it sounds more elegant. It is also often used as "Going to X"
like 成田行（き） = なりたゆき
>>838
1)I think I will eat an apple
2)I think I want to eat an apple
>>840
Anki (and kanji.kohii.com if you plan to do the heisig method)
>>840
I'd reccomend anyone with an iPhone to get the 'Japanese' program (kind of a vague name, it's by codefromtokyo)
The program has all everyday use kanji with stroke orders. It has a ton of example words with the kanji and example sentences , plus you can write the kanji in the iPhone with your finger. The newest version also added a cool flash card program that actually doesn't suck and more
Does anyone have any links to past JLPT papers(All levels)?
Thanks.
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Anonymous2009-10-15 6:15
>>841
Many thanks, kind anon. So ゆく is still frequently used in daily conversations and such?
I'm also wondering about what そりゃ and こりゃ means. Can anyone clear that out?
Also cheers to the anon who reminded me to google for the slangs.
Seeing the example sentence from >>838, does that mean when you use <verb>～ようと思う, it becomes future tense?
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Anonymous2009-10-15 15:42
>>848 I'm also wondering about what そりゃ and こりゃ means. Can anyone clear that out?
そりゃ = それは; こりゃ = これは
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Anonymous2009-10-17 0:04
I'm trying to teach myself to speak Japanese (it's not really going so well - only real reference material I have is a book called "Japanese in Mangaland" by Marc Bernabe - very simplified stuff and a glossary of basic kanji. I know the syllabaries (mostly) and some basic grammar, but very little else (kanji especially gives me problems.)
Two questions;
Does /lang/ know of any good sites/resources for beginners of Japanese?
Is there anything on Hokkaido-ben that doesn't just gloss over a few buzzwords? I'd like to find something more in-depth than just 「だべさ」＝「ですね」or ざんぎ= Fried Chicken Nuggets.
In this sentence, how was 置く conjugated to 置いといた? I do realize it probably means the same as 置いていた, but I've never seen this grammar before, and IME tells me such a conjugation is correct.
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Anonymous2009-10-31 6:19
>>856
It's the past tense form of 置いとく, which is a contraction of 置いておく (て-form + おく = to prepare something in advance).
>>860
Because it's not む after です, but a すむ after で instead.
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Anonymous2009-11-09 23:56
So, this is something I've been wondering for a while. Here's the situation:
Me, a 21 year old male who wants to speak politely, but not so politely it's overly feminine or distant-sounding. In which situations should each of the following be used to refer to another person?
omae, kimi, anata, anta
From what I can gather from guessing (I'm sure I'm wrong with some of this):
omae: Very casual, somewhat rude if used towards someone I don't know well, extremely rude to use on someone of higher social standing or age than me. Maybe good for using on fellow guys around my age?
kimi: Somewhat polite, but less polite than anata. Maybe good for using on women around my age?
anata: Very polite, probably only good for using on people of higher social standing in formal situations, since it seems overly feminine.
anta: Actually, I think I've only ever heard women use this. Is this like the feminine equivalent of 'omae' or something?
---
On a related note, how old is too old to be using 'boku'? 'ore' seems too harsh for me, but 'watashi' seems too feminine. I'm a bit confused.
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Anonymous2009-11-10 14:47
Words like 通りゃんせ, 下しゃんせ - what is the grammar of them? Is it some kind of an old imperative? (like imperative of ます is ませ, etc).
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Anonymous2009-11-10 14:54
i love that song. would also like to know
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Anonymous2009-11-13 9:59
>>862
Only way to win is not to play. Refer to them by name or function.
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Anonymous2009-11-14 4:44
>>862
I would avoid using the word 'you' completely unless you know them very well that you could talk shit in front of them and laugh it off
kimi is kind of like a person of higher status looking down on someone. I think you can use it on your GF and it's fine but not 100% sure
anta is definitely rude
anata can be rude if the person is higher status than you, but I've heard that's not true as well. I'd just avoid it unless you have to use it to clear up like a confusion
It's pretty obvious who you're talking about most of the time. この辺りに住んでいますか？
obviously you're asking the guy you're asking/looking at. You really don't need 'you'
お前 is partly used just to be rude, not to use the word 'you' which is why you hear it a lot when people are fucking around
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Anonymous2009-11-14 20:27
I HATE women. I never had a girlfriend and never will. The only times I got laid was when I paid a woman or promised her something. I'm never going to hold hands with a chick, kiss a girl intimately because we're in love, or any of the other shit that human beings were made to do. I guess that I'm suppose to be happy masturbating every fucking night. I'm a man with sexual urges and can't get with a female. I'm suppose to be alright with that? THERE IS A FUCKING CURSE ON MY LIFE. A CURSE THAT PREVENTS ANY FEMALE FROM LIKING ME. Oh I forgot, I do get interest from fat chicks and I'm not attracted to fat chicks.
I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm going to become the biggest asshole in the world. I tried the whole being considerate thing and it got me nowhere. If people can't handle my newfound harshness, then bring it on. BECAUSE I DON'T GIVE A FUCK. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK.
I get happy when I hear about some college slut getting murdered or injured in a hit and run. "oh she was a beautiful and talented girl, how could this happen." I don't know but I'm glad it did.
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Anonymous2009-11-15 16:58
Now this confuses the hell out of me.
To becone silent: しずかになる vs しずかなる
My book (namely, Genki) says you need the に, but google has found much more results without it.
So which one is correct? If both are correct, what's the difference between them?
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Anonymous2009-11-15 18:24
>>869
It's that particles like に, は, を etc aren't always necessary. Reason is, they are only to help indicate whether a word is subject, object, direct object, or something else. For example は and を are often interchangeable in a number of contexts, eg 寿司は食べた and 寿司を食べた mean essentially the same thing. Since sushi is not capable of eating anything (=can't be in the role of subject here), it becomes the object.
Same goes with skipping the particles, when they are obvious you might skip them. Just remember that in polite speech sentences are always spoken in full.
In text the kanji (when used) narrows it down a bit but for example with 掛ける there's still a shitload to consider. Currently I decided to just give up and instead learn it more than once in different contexts, like 鍵を掛ける (かぎをかける, to lock something) but it seems like this list would be arbitrarily long.
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Anonymous2009-11-25 12:04
>>871
You deal with it one meaning at the time, you don't learn all at once. Think of them as different words.
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Anonymous2009-11-25 12:28
It's like take, take a shower, take this, take a left, take a ball, take a leak, a take.
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Anonymous2009-11-26 2:37
>>871
I take かける as an ultra-generous word that can mean anything. Can't say it's a very good solution, but there's nothing better in my case.
What does 空気読みすぎ mean? Too much reading the air? I see it quite often.
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Anonymous2009-11-27 14:20
>>876
I would say your interpretation makes sense. I usually hear 空気読む when people say "He can't read the vibe" stuff like that. For example if someone just died and this guy makes a joke. So i guess 空気読みすぎ Reading too much into that?
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俺さま2009-11-27 21:21
wat is the best way to start a conversation with a Japanese person so u can practice speaking??
>>877
I think I found what it means:
その場のムード、ふいんき（なぜか変換できない）のこと。 この流れを察することを「空気を読む」といい、読めない人は「空気嫁（読め）」や「KY」などと言われたりする。言われても自分のことだと気がつかない人は、本当にどうすればいいんでしょう。ただし、その「空気」が単なる勝手な妄想だったりすると、言った本人が顰蹙を買うことになる。
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Anonymous2009-11-29 2:02
>>880
Haha
the reason he couldn't change ふいんき to 雰囲気 is because he spelled it wrong
You see, Japanese don't even know how their own language works it seems. From what I've noticed, when you have a ん before い, （んい) the pronunciation becomes いん. There's a ton of words like this, 雰囲気, 原因, etc and some of them can't spell it right. If you actually pronounce 原因 as げんいん you can actually confuse a Japanese person.
I actually had to explain to one of my Japanese teachers this, she was so dumb it took her like 20 minutes to consider that maybe I was right(Although some other teachers instantly knew what I was talking about)
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Anonymous2009-11-29 9:45
Are there significant differences in nuance between 準備 (じゅんび), 支度 (したく) and 用意 (ようい)? I know they're used in different compound words but I can't see any pattern to those.
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Anonymous2009-11-29 13:16
>>881
That's not true. It's just that ん isn't always pronounced like n, sometimes m, sometimes ng and so on.
ん at the end of sentence? Like いいじゃん?
That's not a ん?
Anyways, ん can have slightly different pronunciations depending on what follows the ん but it's still ん
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Anonymous2009-12-01 5:59
>>882
You'll often find words with the same meaning in English. This is when it's great to search words up in Japanese to get an actual definition rather than a one word answer.
>>887
Yeah this one is good as hell. Every time I input something I doubt in in Google first result is Yahoo, goo, or kotonoha. It particularly helped me realize that Japanese people don't know all the language themselves too, and there's nothing bad to not understand something and look it up in a dictionary.
When people say 悪くないじゃん, does this mean "is not not bad" (=is bad), or does it mean "not bad ain't it"?
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Anonymous2009-12-02 9:17
>>889
Again, we're talking about stuff likeじゃん, right?
Yeah I'm going to go ahead and say my pronunciation is probably better than yours considering I lived in Japan for quite awhile and have been mistaken as Japanese quite a few times even though I'm white as fuck.
if じゃん's ん at the end isn't ん then パン's isn't ん either which is just retarded
That's just immature, you don't know anything about me. Let's not fight about who speaks Japanese better than the other.
Furthermore, I've never said it's not ん, another funny conclusion you've come to. In パン, じゃん, like I said, any sentence that ends with ん, the ん isn't pronounced the same way as an English n. However, if you were to say パンです, the ん(ン) would have been pronounced the way an English n is.
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Anonymous2009-12-04 7:10
>>892
...That's what you were talking about? You need to learn how to better express yourself in English before learning Japanese. Also if that was what you were trying to say then your first post has no relevance to anything whatsoever.
I have already stated that ん has multiple readings and you tell me that I obviously don't know Japanese (then call me the immature one?) and now you're saying there's multiple ones just like I said..
Massive fail
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Anonymous2009-12-04 7:31
and to go in a little more detail, the ん in ふいんき isn't set to some retarded rules. Nor is ん your talking about only found at the end of a sentence. It depends on how fast you read it. If you say 雰囲気 fast, it's read just like the ん in ふいんき. If you stall on the ん then you can hear it properly. It doesn't change anything. Your just being stupid. Stop posting.
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Anonymous2009-12-04 14:15
>and to go in a little more detail, the ん in ふいんき isn't set to some retarded rules. Nor is ん your talking about only found at the end of a sentence. It depends on how fast you read it. If you say 雰囲気 fast, it's read just like the ん in ふいんき. If you stall on the ん then you can hear it properly. It doesn't change anything. Your just being stupid. Stop posting.
>It doesn't change anything. Your just being stupid. Stop posting.
>Your just being stupid.
>Your
Someone tame the grammar nazi within me.
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Anonymous2009-12-04 17:36
>>893
Nah, it's you who have obvious problems understanding simple things. I expressed myself clearly in my first post.
>You need to learn how to better express yourself in English before learning Japanese.
Really now? Do I? I didn't know you had to master English before you could learn Japanese.
>I have already stated that ん has multiple readings
Interesting theory. ん isn't a kanji as far as I know. It has multiple ways to be pronounced, not multiple readings.
>you tell me that I obviously don't know Japanese
Again, if you had the ability to read correctly, you would have noticed that I wrote you obviously don't know how to PRONOUNCE Japanese.
Finally, I suggest you don't criticize others English when you aren't even able to write it correctly yourself.
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Anonymous2009-12-04 22:25
>>896
rofl you made yourself look even more stupid
I didn't think it was possible
Ffff-, wish I had my notes - I actually wrote down the differences between those. From memory: junbi is a more general term for a preparation, so if in doubt use that; shitaku is a preparation for doing something, such as packing for a trip; youi is a preparation of something specific ahead of when you'll need it, like a meal or a speech.
Or something like that.
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Anonymous2009-12-14 19:09
無事これ名馬也
What does this mean? Google translate isn't helping.
does anyone know of a (printable) Jouyou kanji list with the On-yomi and Kun-yomi and English meanings?
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Anonymous2010-01-06 13:29
Is there any good software/website that tests your kanji writing ability? There are many that tests vocabulary and stuff but I've yet to find any that tests writing. I just don't feel like wasting paper on repeatedly writing them over and over again if there are any good enough digital solutions to this.
So basically it's like the author kikuike chihiro or w/e changed it from 無事是貴人 Which from his definition means something like If you're living and doing nothing, then that's the same as a nobleman
some dumb Buddhist crap
What's with people like from really old people adding し at the end of verbs like 過去にとらわれし者よ！
I'm guessing it means とらわれた者 and I've seen it in numerous unrelated things.
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Anonymous2010-01-09 5:03
千ポストに！
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Anonymous2010-01-09 18:01
sorry my english isnt good. >>900
name:jyama-kun male（?）
race:ancient dark item
job:chastity belt,cat,slaighter
age:at least 30000
birth:at least 30000years ago
height:he dont have blood
blood type:he can transformation so he dont have regular height.
favorite thing:bully meido（? i have no idea how to say in english）
hate thing:someone who isnt he bully meido（?）
charm point:wink and tail
weapon:himself
A long time ago,landlord picked up him at ancientremain.
Usually,he sticks meido（?）s body.
He has his own will,he love bullying his meido（?）.
His character is whim and epicurean.
He can wail only himself.when it is important time,its often he isnt.
When battle,he changed his body at meido（?）s right hand.
but what he transform is decided his mood.
>>906
け which means past changed し.
Its feature the し exists before noun.
But it is old word.Its very difficult and everyday conversation dont use it.
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9082010-01-09 18:07
meido→maid
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Anonymous2010-01-09 18:52
>>40
Watashi wa doko ni imasu ka.
Something like that I suppose
The only thing I've done is look up kanjis into google images, sometimes adding 書道 (calligraphy) to the search. I'd really like to find some kind of a list though for simplified and/or calligraphied radicals.
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Anonymous2010-01-14 17:27
>>920
Well do a calligraphy class.
You'll be amazed how many variants the Chinese characters have. I regularly encounter some unknown to me variant characters when reading older books, even those of early 20th have some strange points.
By unknown variants I mean characters I manage to recognize but see such a shape for the first time, like rearranging 臣 to a vertical combination of 中+心+一.
>>921
I'd like to learn chinese characters well enough to do that. I don't why but I love chinese characters. After the ~3500 in Japan I'm going to learn all 6000 in use in Taiwan (IIRC 80% are shared in Japan) and then maybe, *maybe*, learn the 2000 or so simplified characters used in Beijing (many of those I've heard are illogical, stupid and not worth learning unless you plan on travelling to Beijing).
Currently at maybe 1000 recognition and 650+ written from memory.
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Anonymous2010-01-15 10:21
Is there a good resource for colloquial phrase usage somewhere? I'm having trouble with stuff like "しゅっとしやがって" ( last panel in http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/12542/12 ). I've pieced together that it's probably
And the second volume of it right after. It has good reviews...but for some reason I'm a little iffy with amazon reviews. Anyway, what do you guys think? Any better alternatives? Or is this the best?
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Anonymous2010-01-16 10:24
>>925
I don't know that book, but you can't go wrong with Genki.
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Anonymous2010-01-17 23:28
I studied abroad in Japan for 1 year. What really advanced my Japanese ability was not any amount of studying in books, but chatting with my friends in Japan online. By chatting with my friends, I would think of something I wanted to say in English, and then try to translate that into Japanese. By doing so, I learned grammar and words relevant to actually conversing in the language, and I very quickly became able to speak casually in conversations.
I would really recommend maybe trying to converse with people on Japanese message boards, or finding a Japanese person to talk with online. I've met some Chinese on Omegle.com that want to practice their English, and I can practice my Chinese with them.
I really think that chatting is the best way to learn, because you learn things that you're interested in (thus retain it easier), you learn how to say things that you would actually say in real life, and it really helps you start to think in the language.
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Anonymous2010-01-18 3:10
>>925
This is what they use at Berkeley. I used/liked it.
Genki is the standard, I haven't really looked at it.
Note: If you've only done Japanese 101 AND/OR have no sense of Japanese beyond the so-called "textbook Japanese", don't answer questions in /lang/'s Japanese questions threads.
I know this sounds kind of stupid, but I'm having trouble pronouncing Japanese r's. Whenever I try to pronounce them I can't stop rolling my tongue. I have no idea why...I mean I try to pronounce the r's like they're in between l and r...but I still can't stop rolling them. My English r's are always normal. In fact, I never roll my tongue ever. I have no idea how I'm even capable of rolling my r's at all.
This is really frustrating me. Any ideas on how I can remedy this? I keep practicing, but maybe some specific techniques will help more?
They occasionally roll their tongues, especially when drunk and want to sound cool like the yakuza
I personally roll my Japanese R's often when it's combined with 'i'
so when I say arigatou, you'll hear a roll out of me most likely.
I asked a Japanese before how close my Japanese R's are and he said he couldn't distinguish mine from a native, but he could have been full of it.
I learned how to roll my tongue through Japanese. The fact that you are rolling tells me you're doing it right. Just don't roll it more than once like in Spanish. You can try and cut the rolls out, I don't think you need to revolutionize how you say R because it sounds like you're getting the hang of it already, you just need maybe a minor change if at all
I'm not a native though, so take it for what it's worth..
>>948
Roll your R's, or say L, the Japanese won't actually hear a difference.
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Anonymous2010-01-24 9:00
>>951
Are you serious?
An L sounds completely different from a rolled R...
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Anonymous2010-01-24 10:54
>>952
Not for the japs. Much like chinese differ tones and aspiration, while americunts can't hear a difference. In english you can aspirate everything or nothing and it wouldn't really matter, at best people would notice you speak a bit "oddly" but that's all. Same with swapping r/l in japanese.
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Anonymous2010-01-24 15:07
Are there any helpfull sites for learning japanese online?
It would be better if you studied from textbooks as well.
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Anonymous2010-01-25 1:37
revive
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Anonymous2010-01-25 3:14
>>952
That's because it's the Japanese rolled R not the Spanish rolled R
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Anonymous2010-01-25 3:18
Is there any respectable dictionary online to look up Japanese sound words? Not talking about those terrible sites which only have like 100 listed. Like 擬声語/擬態語/擬音語 (honestly I forget which is which)
cause when I see stuff like ゴオオオオ
or オーム in the background I have no way of understanding it.
こんにちは～!
So, straight to the question, does anyone have a straight to the question, does anyone have a link to an online the question, does anyone have a link to an online kanji dictionary? Like not just charts for learning them like in school but an actual dictionary?
How hard is it for a Chinese or Korean person to learn Japanese, and vice versa? It would seem pretty hard...but maybe I'm wrong. I think learning foreign languages with English has much more fluidity to it.
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Anonymous2010-02-02 20:18
>>963
Koreans are by for the fastest at learning Japanese due to the languages being very similar. Koreans struggle only on Kanji.
Chinese are the second best at learning Japanese because they already know the Kanji (although slightly different but still understandable)
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Anonymous2010-02-02 22:24
>>964
I really hope you were trolling just then. Seriously, Korean and Japanese being similar!? A Japonic and a possibly Altaic/ language isolate being similar? Even just an isolate being similar to anything astounds me.
I understand the Chinese, technically because the Japanese borrowed their kanji from Chinese hanzi (if I remember correctly, the word might be wrong.), but Korean and Japanese aren't similar like Dutch and German my good sir.
Not 964, but he's/she's correct. The theory is that Korean and Japanese are closely but distantly related which explains the similarities in grammatical structure between the two. Still heavily under debate though.
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Anonymous2010-02-03 12:19
>>965 is an imbecile. "A" Japonic? As opposed to what? "Many" Japonic languages?
Also, please don't try to convince people that you know the first thing about the Korean and Japanese similarities or lack thereof. I bet you never heard that Turkish is similar to Korean and Japanese either. Idiot.
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Anonymous2010-02-03 13:40
>>967 "Many" Japonic languages?
Yes. Learn about Ryukyuan languages.
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Anonymous2010-02-03 16:32
>>967
Oh man, I thought /lang/ was free of retarded people...
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Anonymous2010-02-03 18:01
>>965
964 here, I actually base my knowledge on first hand experience. I've lived in Japan for 1.5 years attending a Japanese school for foreigners. I've encountered tons of people from every single race. Out of them all, Koreans rise to the top faster than anyone. The way the languages work are extremely similar. My GF is also Korean so I've picked up Korean myself and found it the easiest language ever through Japanese. I use Japanese grammar and just swap the words and I have had grammatically correct sentences without ever learning grammar. Koreans also are better than everyone in Japanese accents than anyone else by a long shot. They also happen to already know 100s of kanji through Korean as well, you never considered that, did you?
Chinese (along with taiwanese) are definitely quick at learning the language too. They all seem to have a difficulty with pronunciation, as they forget if words used the dakuten (゛) as they can't clearly hear the difference as we do.
Indonesia people seem to struggle more than anyone else as they have a deep accent which makes them hard to understand
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Anonymous2010-02-04 17:57
There's a lot of requests and demands in Japanese and I'm curious where this one belongs as you won't ever learn it in class. It sounds like bad grammar but it isn't.
It's like this
待つんだ！
or
ここは俺に任せて先に行くんだ
Is it a request? Is it a demand? Is it even used in real Japanese (outside of TV)
Is it rude?
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Anonymous2010-02-05 1:32
>>971
I always see people asking about this but I'm always terrible at explaining it myself. All it is is a shortened/informal form of の+です following a verb (in your examples, though it can be used after nouns, etc.)
It's not a request or a demand, more of an added point of explanation, and usually it doesn't really have its own translation. And yes, it's used quite often in real Japanese, I see/hear it daily spoken and written. Hope that helps.
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Anonymous2010-02-06 0:29
>>972
That is the same form and all. I understand how to use の＋です
but I think we're talking about two different things here. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just derived from that form and modified to make it a request though, but I'm pretty sure that the way it is supposed to work is different
You hear it when for instance, you see someone running away, and you yell, "待つんだ！" or "Stop!" to get them to do so.
However, it doesn't really make sense with the original の＋です meaning.
You could say お前が野菜を食べるんだ to a person who won't eat his vegetables.
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Anonymous2010-02-06 18:00
>>973
I think it's still the same thing. While it usually adds an explanatory tone, I've seen it/heard of it used just to add extra emotion. Though, I'm only at an intermediate level with my Japanese so I may be wrong myself (if anyone else wants to come in and correct me!).
I just thought about looking it up in "A Dictionary of Japanese Grammar" series and heres part of the entry of it.
3. [Subject] のだ is also used when no information is shared by the speaker and the hearer and the speaker is not explaining or asking for an explanation about anything. In this case, the speaker is talking as if some information were shared with the hearer and the effects of this are, for example,
(a) to involve the hearer in the affairs he is talking about (See (3) and (4) below.)
and, or
(b) to impose his idea upon the hearer or, at least, to emphasize his idea emotively. (See (5) below.)
Examples:
(3)今日フットボールがあるんですが一緒に行きませんか。
(There is a football game today, wouldn't you like to go with me?)
(4)先生、困っているんです。助けてください。
(Sensei, I'm in trouble. Please help me.)
(5)日本語の文法は難しいですがおもしろいんですよ。
(Japanese grammar is difficult, but it's interesting, you know.)
The parts prior to that section are just explaining のです used in its explanatory tone and the fact that it can be shortened to のだ or んだ.
As I said before I may be incorrect myself and there may be another grammar point I don't know about yet, but every time I've seen んだ (and equivalents) used, it's always been this same form.
E
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Anonymous2010-02-07 14:46
Anyone know where I can find some decent intermediate and advanced Japanese books? Or even anything where I can study them online? I can find so many beginner books, but barely anything above.
Also, someone should make a new thread soon.
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Anonymous2010-02-07 18:16
>>974
Yeah, I know what you're talking about but it's not that.
I did some google searching and came across this page which is going over exactly what I'm talking about. Pretty complicated, even these people who are trying to explain it all have different opinions. http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/nichigen/issue/pdf/4/4-14.pdf
命令という発語内行為について「その表現が決意や命令であることを直
接的に指し示す標識がなくても、動作の内容と、“その動作がまだ実現していないこと”“その動作を実現させるべき人物が話手（聞手）であること”が何らか
の手段で示されれば、その表現は立派に決意や命令として理解されるものであ
る」と述べ、「動詞の原形や『～こと。』という形でも、文脈によっては決意・
命令の表現たりうる」と述べている。
So it sounds like to me it can be either a your strong decision or an order depending on the context
6 俺は行くぞ。行くと言ったら行くんだ。 （p.４９0「決意」の例）
7 立て、立て！立つんだ、ジョー！ （p.４９!「命令」の例）
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Anonymous2010-02-08 1:30
mine is beyond basic but im trying to type some things im learning in my Japanese class. So i turn on windows japanese typing...thing. Can someone explain how this works, the little drop down menu giving options on what to type in? Naturally just starting to lean Japanese i dont know kanji at all so is there a kanji or wata and watashi?
腸?
私?
I type space after wata and watashi and i get these, is it auto correcting to kanji?
これ輪?
korewa?
わたし
any help will probably kick start my learning ten-fold
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Anonymous2010-02-08 8:03
Can someone tell me what a proper method of learning kanji would be? At the moment I'm just studying arbitrary vocab using electronic flash cards in Anki, and trying to pick up ON-readings naturally from regular vocabulary. But is it better to try and study them individually in isolation with the expectation that in most cases I'll be able to infer the both the readings and meanings of words from the individual kanji, or should I continue as I'm doing and try and recall the meaning and ON-readings of the kanji from prior uses in full words?
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Anonymous2010-02-08 11:45
>>18
There are a lot of japanese books on that. You have to look for 草書 (read "sousho", this writing style is the japanese cursive)
>>40
it does sound rather awkward and I'm not sure if a native speaker would actually understand what you were trying to say.
If I were in a similar situation, I'd show the person I'm asking a map or something and ask him something like 「ここはどこですか。」
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Anonymous2010-02-08 12:04
>>977
You should get your kanji knowledge at least to a basic level (~ 100-150 kanji) before trying to type something in kanji; the IME can't do the thinking for you. It will propose the most likely kanjis for the reading you're typing in, but you still have to choose the correct kanjis yourself.
I don't know what you mean with "wata", but the kanji for watashi would be 私
Also, it's これは (as in: "this is"), not これわ. The は may be read as a "wa" but if you were to transcribe it properly, it would actually be written as "ha". Since the は in this place is a particle, you would never, ever, write it as a kanji. You could, however, write the "これ" as kanji, for which you could choose from 是, 之 and 惟. But then again, in modern japanese, これ is almost always written in hiragana.
>>978
You might want to try out a two-way approach. I am currently learning how to write a kanji -as well as their individual meaning- with one anki deck, and I use another deck with example sentences and kanji combinations to get a feeling for how they are being read and in what situations and vocabulary they are being used.
The first method analyzes and deconstructs the individual kanji in their different parts and ties them together with small stories. The kanji for "bright" (明), for example, consists of the kanji for sun or day, 日, and the kanji for moon or month, 月. You can use a short sentence like "It is really BRIGHT when the light of both SUN and MOON shine together" or something like this. There is a community collecting such stories for about 3300 kanjis at http://kanji.koohii.com/
If you want to learn the readings, you should http://www.readthekanji.com/ a try. Kana and the kanji for JLPT4 are free, and if you want to do the other levels, you can get yourself a lifetime account for just 10 $. I use the site almost every day and it is really worth it.
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Trivialman2010-02-12 4:25
Hello
I wonder if someone could help me? There is a brilliant piece of Japanese porn on this link here:
I would love to know why the teacher lets the students lift up her skirt, and then allows them to go further. Does she say anything to encourage them? Could someone who speaks Japanese please tell me what is happening here? Many thanks.
Trivialman again. I hope no one is offended by that question, but I heard, via an adult website, that somebody had posted a similar question on 4chan, so I hope that the question is acceptable. Needless to say, the video is for adults only.
Sort of what 980 said but, I just started an intermediate course in Japanese at my university and we use a book called Kanji Look and Learn. Every kanji in it has a little picture explanation with it and a short little "story" to it to help you remember it. It may seem silly at first but it really works pretty well, for me at least. For exemple:
親 (parent) - The parent stands (立) on the tree (木) and watches (見) the children.
And then there's a picture of a guy standing on a tree with an eye with legs (見) next to him.
Also, learning the individual radicals of complicated kanji will help out a lot.
>>985
Context does help, but context would also help in reading too, so that answer is moot tbh
This is why Japanese is a seriously flawed language, the language wouldn't even work without kanji due to the crazy amount of homophones.
In speech however, vocabulary is less broad. You'll find yourself running into non-spoken words all the time when reading a book. I have a feeling this is partly because of homophones.
There is intonation which helps Japanese understand pretty decently. For instance, there is 箸 橋 and 端. All are spelled the same but have different intonations so you can kinda tell.
This still isn't enough sometimes, so you will often hear even Japanese people themselves saying stuff like
A)＿＿＿＿きせい
B)きせい？
A)規則のキだよ
B)あっ、規制か
Seriously, this is something you hear like everyday
a) dictionaries often use stroke order
b) try writing your post down on paper. Write each word from last letter to first, and in the letter last stroke to first. Compare what it looks like with your regular handwriting and how the letters should look - odds are it looks like shit.