日語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread2 質問

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Japanese - Ask questions thread
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1174719097/l50

>>280
He's not living in Japan now, I think.

>>258
Example:
あがるお　(上がるお)
Wow, i've used over a month to reply.

>>278
Thanks for the help man! I hope I can explain it that well someday too!

>>280
ya, im not in japan right now. thats why i was slightly confused.

Pronunciation questions.

When you pronounce the n/m sound in a word, do you separate it into its own syllable or pronounce it together with the previous one.

For example: The word 本 ( ほん ) would you say "hon" or "ho-n."

Same for the "ou" sound, do I pronounce them together or seperate?
"ou" or "o-u."

Thanks.

>>284
Same guy here. I guess I could sum this up as: Do you pronounce every hiragana phonetic in a word every time? or do some combine like in English? I.e. the 'a' and 'i' in "はい" forming an 'eye' sound making the word sound something like "hi." Or should it in fact sound like "は-い"

>>285
I recognize one vowel in every syllable except "ん" when speaking Japanese. It may be helpful to compare English words with loanwords. When I run across a word "count" in an English text, I only feel one vowel, but when I see the corresponding loanword カウント in a Japanese text, I feel it has four syllables, three of which have vowels: カ(ka), ウ(u), ン(n), and ト(to).

If you say "count" in English, it sounds to monolingual Japanese something like か + unknown foreign sound (kind of mixture of "oo" and "n" following か smoothly) + noise (consonant "t"). Note that the brains of monolingual Japanese don't recognize the consonant "t" as part of language because it isn't followed by a vowel, and they either ignore it or think your tongue made a noise with saliva. It's no more a phoneme than grinding of the teeth.

Also, the smoothness between kah-oo-nn makes your pronunciation quite foreign.

That said, I think it'd be better to just mimic native speakers and not to analyze phonetics. Well, I should've said this first, but whatever.

>>286
I meant "one vowel in each syllable."

Do you pronounce every hiragana phonetic in a word every time?
Nope. Your best bet is to learn by listening to how the Japanese themselves do it so you learn how they combine. Try japanese pimsleur or any japanese show.

Ou, hai, hon are all pronounced together
desu is pronounced "des" most of the time. The 'u' is really not audible.
As a counter-example, yaoi is pronounced ya-o-i and not ya-oi (like a pirate).

>>288
>Ou, hai, hon are all pronounced together
>As a counter-example, yaoi is pronounced ya-o-i and not ya-oi (like a pirate).
English diphthongs and Japanese ones are quite different. I'll attach an abstract of a paper on diphthongs which I think sums up what they are like.

As for です, most of the time it sounds "des" to English speakers. However, actually Japanese speakers are feeling the missing "u." In fact, some native speakers pronounce it more like "desu" and others say it like "des," but they're recognized as the same phoneme.

quote:

ENGLISH AND JAPANESE DIPHTHONGS: AN ACOUSTIC APPROACH

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fumio Hirasaka
Seizaburô Kamata
Sofia University

An English diphthong is traditionally defined as a glide sound, which is articulated within a single syllable by speech organs starting in the position of the first vowel and moving in the direction of the second vowel.
　　
In English there are several diphthongs such as /aI/,/OI/,etc., while in the field of Japanese linguistics, /ai/,/oi/,/ui/ and /ei/ are said to be diphthongs.
　　
However, the definition of English diphthongs given above does not hold in the case of so-called Japanese diphthongs. Because Japanese /ai/,/oi/ etc. are pronounced not as one syllable but as two syllables. And /-i/ in Japanese /ai/, for example, is articulated in the same position as a monophthong /i/, but /-I/ in English /aI/ is articulated in the position where the vowel /E/ is articulated. Thus it is generally said that Japanese /-i/ is the destination at which speech organs arrive, but English /-I/ shows the target point towards which speech organs move. Furthermore, when we consider diphthongs from the point of stress, the first element of an English diphthong is pronounced with strong force and the second element with fairly weak force.

In so-called Japanese ‘diphthongs’, however, the two elements are pronounced with almost even stress. Thus there are great differences between English and Japanese diphthongs and the characteristics of English diphthongs have been said to be strikingly different from those of Japanese ‘diphthongs’. Unfortunately, we could not find any study which compares English and Japanese diphthongs quantitatively and investigates the differences between them. However, to compare and examine acoustically the differences between them in detail is not only interesting in the field of phonetics but also exceedingly significant for the training of English pronounciation.
　　
The aim of this study is to make a time and frequency domain analysis of English and Japanese diphthongs from the view point of experimental phonetics, and to reconsider and describe quantitatively what has been taken for granted in the area of traditional phonetics.

hi.

I'm having trouble translating this sentence:
三年生の私がそう思うのだから、六年生の姉はもっとその頭望が強かったに違いない。

I know it's something about 'as a 3rd grader I think so because my 6th grade elder sister ... something something...
I'm not sure what '頭望' (atama mochi) means and I don't understand what this elder sister does...or doesn't.

Any help?

>頭望
that is strange indeed, are you sure that's the right compound?
google doesn't turn up anything of value...

if I were a JAPANESE MASTER I'd probably tell you "oh that's the __ compound which looks similar" but I'm not,

願望 looks KIND of similar so that would translate as

"I was in third grade and thought that way, so there is no doubt my sister, whom was in 6th grade, desired it even more".

quick question. well more of a situation. im telling some folks about how i was studying japanese. of course they want me to say something but i find it a little weird to do that since they wont understand anyway. before i can say something, some bitch comes out of nowhere and says "どうぞよろしく". i stumbled and just kind of passed it over. but not knowing things bothered me and i felt like i knew it so i went to look it up. its something of an introduction, literally please be kind to me, kind of thing. so does bitch deserve a slap for spouting nonsense?
tl;dr
was she using that way out of context to fuck with me?

>>291
Thanks, that make much more sense than I could ever make.
I have another sentence though.
私は部屋をすぐに散らかしたし、虫やカエル等の特に込んで飼育したので姉は本当に嫌がっていた。

I can understand this much: "Because I really hate my sister, I mess the room immediately, especially with insects and frogs."
Doesn't make much sense to me. Any ideas?

>>293
I'm not >>291, but I think the sentence has a typo so it should read "...等を特に好んで飼育..."

If this is the case, it means "My sister really isn't happy because I always left my stuff scattered around our room and kept insects and frogs."

>>294
Sorry, I meant "My sister really wasn't..."

Can you please tell me what do they say in these balloons?
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/2606/image2mm9.jpg

>>295
Thanks a bunch. You're right there was a typo.

Sorry to keep throwing sentences, but these really confuses me:

おまけに姉は特ち物を無断で借りて返さなかったり、友達を連れてきて大騒ぎしたり、「部屋を模様がえする」と言い出して趣味の悪い物を飾ろうとしたり、まったく姉にしてみれば「．．．こいつさえいなけりゃ」と何度も思ったことだろう。

The thing that throws me of is the たり、たり、する structure, I know the theory behind it, and usually understand it in simpler sentences.
I'm somewhat sure what each sentence means, however I'm having trouble getting the overall meaning.

So it's something like:
"And so top it off, my sister never returs the stuff she borrowed without permission, or brought friends over, or thought the rooms decoration (something)"
The rest is a blur especially what's inside the 「」

Any suggestions are greatly appriciated.

>>297
I think it's a run-on sentence and defies faithful translation into proper English. Also, I think "おまけに姉は" is either "おまけに姉の" or possibly "おまけに妹 (or 弟 depending on the sex of the author)は." If I were the author, I'd write:

おまけに私は姉の特ち物を無断で借りて返さないこともありましたし、友達を連れてきて大騒ぎすることもありました。「部屋を模様がえする」と言い出して、趣味の悪い物を部屋に飾ろうとすることもありました。まったく姉にしてみれば「．．．こいつさえいなけりゃ」と何度も思わされたことだろう。

On top of that, sometimes I took my sister's stuff without permission, and occasionally me and my friends whooped it up in our room. I even tried to furnish with vulgar stuff without notice, saying "I feel like making changes in our room." I'm pretty sure she always thought "...if only she wasn't born."

>>298
Thanks for the quick reply. If anyone's interested these sentences are from a short story called "自分の部屋が欲しい" printed in "ももこの話" by "さくらももこ"

I might be back with more sentences later.
In the mean time, if anyone knows this short story, and have a review, or know where to get one, I'd really appriciate it.
It makes translating that mush easier when you know what it is about.

>>299
Ah, that's why the sentences are in spoken language and a bit amateurish. I thought you took them from some blog or something.

>>296
Without context, you never get proper translation.

If the context is like the long hair guy is a kind of super popular alpha male with some magical power and he's about to rape the weakling because the weakling is the only person who didn't think the alpha guy is awesome, then he may be saying:

"There were only losers: those who expected a favor in return or who stood at a distance in awe of me, feeling envy deep down."

and then he may say something like "But you're not like those idiots. I'm interested in you." And yaoi continues.

Hello again everyone. I've reached the end of my text, and need your pwnage japanese skillz.
It's a larger piece of text this time.

 私が本気を出そうとしている時、姉がまたやって来て「あんた、このベッド、もうじき取り壊されるんだろ」と言い出したので驚いた。
不審と疑惑の表情で姉 を見つめる私にむかって姉 は更に「このベッドをなくし
て、私のピアノを置くんだってさ。さっき母さんがそう言ってたよ」と言った。
 「え・・・」私の顔にタテ線は入い、キートン出田のナレーションの声が流れる。
 「こうしてせっかく作ったまる子のくだらない部屋は姉のピアノと交換にあっけ
なく葬り去られるのであった・・・」そしてゴーーンという鐘の音が入る。
 こんな感じの記憶をもとにして、私の漫画はできているのである。
虚しい思い出も、今となっては径に立つのだ。
日々虚しさを感じている方々は、いつか何に立つ日も来るかも知れないと思って
がんばってほしい。

It's getting late here, and translating nonstop all day is making my head hurt.
I'm grateful for any help you might wanna do.

Are you translating this and asking us for a translation so you can compare or?

When I looked like I was serious, my sister came back and shocked me by saying "Your bed is on the verge of falling apart." As I looked at her with a mix of doubt and suspicion, she turned and added "Mom was saying we should get rid of it and put my piano there instead." "Ah..." I could feel a line running across my face and hear Keaton Ideta's narration (uh?). "And just like that, the worthless room Maruko had finally made for himself was replaced by his sister's piano and consigned to oblivion". I then heard a loud bell ringing throughout. Using these recollections, I completed my comic.

Even my previously meaningless memories are now of use. I would ask the people who feel their day-to-day life is meaningless to hang on, as there may come a day where it can serve them.

-「径」≠「役に立つ」
-I am not sure the tenses in my translation are correct or if I even get what's going on.
-Keaton Ideta??
-日々虚しさ "day-to-day meaninglessness" I reworded this and other stuff, but hopefully it's close enough.

I'm not sure what "そうです”　as a way of ending a sentence is supposed to imply. For example:

そのアパートの家賃は、１ヶ月９０万円もするそうです。
The rent for that apartment is said to be as high as 900,000 yen.

What does "sou" before "desu" supposed to imply?

Thank you, kind anonymous.

Second question, 暖かい　and　暖かいん -- does the "n" at the end of atatakai make a difference in the meaning? What is the purpose of that? Thankyou.

for ～そうだ, see
http://www.jgram.org/pages/viewOne.php?tagE=similar

暖かい　and　暖かいん
this is probably 「暖かいです」vs「暖かいんです」, you can't finish sentences in 「ん」
First of all the 「ん」 is short for 「の」
Second of all the difference between the two is very subtle
personally I don't grasp it at all...
tae kim of http://www.guidetojapanese.org/particles3.html#part5
describes this as an "explanatory" nuance
Translation-wise there's usually no difference
「暖かい。」
It's warm.
「暖かいんだ。」
It's warm.

You might want to take a look a jgram for this one too

>>302
タテ線は入い is タテ線が入り? Maybe キートン山田, not 出田? 径に立つ is a typo and it should read 役に立つ? Also, I guess 何に立つ日も was either 役に立つ日も, 何か役に立つ日も or 何かに役に立つ日も. If these are just typos, my shitty translation is:

When I started working on it seriously, my sister came to my room and, out of the blue, she said, "This bed will be taken down soon, you know." Leaving me looking at her in confusion, she continued, "My piano will replace this bed. Mom said so just now."

"What..." My face gets the vertical lines, and I hear the voice of Keaton Yamada: "This way the worthless room Maruko built up with much effort was buried and done with by her sister's piano all too quickly," and rings the muffled sound of a temple bell.

My manga is based off of memories like this. The meaningless days in the past became fruitful reminiscences. If you are feeling empty everyday, I'd like you to think this way: some day empty days may turn to something else.

Obviously this rough translation needs editing work to be good, proper English. I hope this could help you a bit.

>>304
>>305
>Second question, 暖かい　and　暖かいん -- does the "n" at the end of atatakai make a difference in the meaning? What is the purpose of that?

I usually use 〜のです or 〜んです instead of です when implying what I just said is a reason or cause.

今日は忙しいです simply states the fact that you're busy today.
今日は忙しいのです implies, say, that's why you can't go outside, or so that you have to hurry.
今日は忙しいんです is ...のです in informal spoken language.

The catch is implication can be virtually anything depending on the context and your tone of voice. So if you use 今日は忙しいのです in the wrong way when asked if you're available, it could mean like "I'm busy. That's why I want to say, 'don't bother me, you asshole.'" I recommend you avoid 忙しいのです unless you're sure your tone of voice doesn't cause offense or confusion.

>>303
>>306
Thanks! You guys are lifesavers!
Yes I did have my own rather rough translation of some of it, but being tired from translating all day, kept me from making any sense.
Now that I've slept on it, I see that I've made some crucial mistakes, especially where there are typos.
Once again, thanks!

Is "For the health of both of us" an imperfectly translated Japanese idiom or saying?

I get the meaning, but would like to know the original if there is one and when one would use it.

Context is someone put it at the end of an e-mail to me if that matters.

Quick question, what is "not bad" in Japanese?
As in "-I learned Japanese in one week. -Not bad!".

What's the difference between 周り and 辺り? Does 辺り refer more to actual physical surroundings while 周り can be used more generally? I can't quite figure this one out.

>>310
People actually say 悪くない

>>312
That easy huh, thanks.

>>310
If you mean "not difficult," I'd say 難しくない or 割と簡単.
In other cases, most likely 悪くない fits in.

>>311
Roughly speaking, 周り is 辺り + an imaginary circle. 周り means the area that belongs to 辺り and that is outside or along the circle.

辺り means "vicinity" or "neighborhood" in general while 周り is "vicinity" or "neighborhood" with the connotation of "circumference," "girth" or "surrounding area."

Maybe some examples may help a bit:

When you're talking about beaches, seasides or port cities in general, you can use 海の辺り. If you're referring to coastal areas and picturing the coast line in a map in your mind, you say 海の周り; you're talking about the area along the coast line.

When you say この海の辺り while, say, talking with your friends on a deck of a ship in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, it can mean "this area (of sea)." When you use この海の周り in the same situation, it can mean "neighboring areas."

この辺りは危険 means "this area is dangerous." If you say この周りは危険, the place you're in might be safe, but neighboring areas are all dangerous.

Is Japan like the worst place to work? Seriously. I like the language, can speak to Japanese without too much effort, and think tokyo is a fun place, but wow, what the salary men go through just isn't worth it. They work like a million hours (80 a week?) they're lucky if they get 5 hours of sleep (My homestay father gets 3 a day) which is why Japanese have the amazing ability to sleep anywhere, even standing, and the pay sucks ass. Is it just like this in Tokyo or is it shitty for everyone but maybe the few lucky people who get a non-shitty job?

>>316
Don't become a salaryman, then?

Also, lol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Salaryman_asleep_on_the_Tokyo_Subway.jpg

>>315
Woah, thank you, I definitely get it now.

>>317
If you find that funny you obviously have never been to Japan yet, haha.

を IS THIS WO, OR O?
I CANNOT GO ON TO LEARNING KANJI UNTIL I GET THIS FINALLY CLEARED UP!