貴方は？could be impolite, but it's grammatically correct and, if the listener is a stranger and doesn't look older, it's not that rude. If you want to be polite, you can use the polite version of the original phrase, e.g.; if the original question was 東京に行ったことはありますか, then you can say, 貴方は行かれたことがありますか？
Things get complicated when you don't know the listener but are positive that you should avoid 貴方 because he/she looks older or you can tell he's a superior for some reason. Of course, you should be polite so you use the polite form of the original question, but the problem is how to refer the second person.
We (I'm Japanese) take advantage of every kind of clue we can get. For example, if you can guess his title, occupation or the like, you can use it to refer to the second person. If you're certain he's a teacher or professor because you're talking on campus and he doesn't look a student, then "先生は行かれたことがありますか？" If you're a shop keeper and you're talking with a customer, you can say, "お客様は..."
There are many other ways to avoid 貴方. If the second person is obviously a married woman, you may say 奥様. If the second person is with a small kid, then he or she is probably a parent so you may use お父様 or お母様. When they're elderly persons and you're relatively young, you may use おじいちゃん or おばあちゃん.
Another typical technique is indirect questions or rewording if you will. If you're asked if you have been to Tokyo and you want to know if he went there, then you might say, いえ、ありませんが、行ってみたいと思っています。お勧めの観光場所はありますか, which means "No, but I'd like to. Do you know some spot I shouldn't miss?" That way you'll probably know if he has. If you don't want to answer his question, then just replying by お勧めの観光場所はありますか works.
That said, the simplest way is asking his or her name right after you answer their question. And then ask the second person the same question.
you don't use だ with i-adjectives, right? So, what about times when you want to say だろう? You could say でしょう but if you're speaking with friends, isn't it polite which is out of place?
I know with kansaiben you can use や with i-adjectives but だ is kind of tricky
So if I wanted to say, 面白いだろう, would that be the best way, or do I need to say something else to sound more natural?
Correct, but you can circumvent the rule by putting a の (or ん) before the だ:
君の友人はすごく面白いんだね。
ここは寒いのだ。
うれしいのだ！
面白いだろう
だろう after an i-adjective is perfectly acceptable.
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Anonymous2009-01-05 14:32
>>443
As>>444 said, 面白いだろう is grammatically correct, but it's nothing you would say when talking with a friend in an informal situation. I'd say たぶん面白い, たぶん面白いよ or possibly 面白いだろうね. It's too formal to end with だろう in informal conversation.
>>444
>うれしいのだ！
I lol'd. It sounds as if the speaker is an adorable loli or a cute girl in anime, or the phrase is taken from a novel or something where the speaker is very serious. The grammar is perfect and it could be used in certain situations though.
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Anonymous2009-01-05 14:32
What is a good textbook to practice grammar on?
I'm nearly through RtK, currently learning vocab through the JLPT list.
Just going through Genki seems like a joke, because they don't even introduce the に particle.
However, if I try to read it up in Tae Kim's guide it doesn't seem to stick.
Should I just quit whining and go through Genki or is there a better alternative?
Sorry for my bad English, if something is wrong please correct me.
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Anonymous2009-01-05 14:41
no textbook will be perfect, my textbook didn't include stuff genki taught, and genki didn't include stuff mine taught. luckily my teacher used both books throughout different colleges, so he created his own lesson plan to incorporate both textbooks so we werent left behind.
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Anonymous2009-01-05 15:19
>>447
What textbook did you use to supplement Genki?
>>449
No one cares if you think the world is ok or not.
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Anonymous2009-01-07 6:01
所 and 場所
any real difference?
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Anonymous2009-01-07 13:16
>>452
They are synonyms and have quite similar meanings. In many cases they're interchangeable unless you're using idiomatic phrases such as 場所柄, 秋場所, 所違えば and 所々. But 所 has a wider meaning so sometimes you can't replace 所 with 場所 and vice versa.
In general, 場所 tends to mean a physical place, spot, site, point and so on while ところ is often figurative and it covers a wider rage of area-ish meanings. If you replace 場所 with ところ when they're interchangeable, certain vagueness and/or abstractness is often added to the sentence.
Actual usages and the subtle difference are quite difficult to explain in English; it's like explaining the differences between place, site, and spot by using the Japanese language. If you want to fully understand the two words, Japanese monolingual dictionaries often give clear explanations of both words; though you will already know the difference intuitively.
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Anonymous2009-01-10 6:30
Help me, /lang/, I just moved to Japan a few days ago. Before coming, I took language courses for 2 years and am decent with grammar and have a good enough vocabulary.
I'm gonna go ahead an apologize if this is irrelevant, as it's not language specific.
The problem is that every time I have to speak to someone who doesn't speak ANY English, I start to freak out, as in have an extreme panic attack and then go hide in a bathroom for 30 minutes to get away from people.
I know I'm an extreme case, but did any of you ever experience anything like this and, if so, how did you overcome it? I have the potential, I just can't bring myself to do it... :(
>>454
I know what you mean. When I moved to the US, no one around me understood Japanese. When I had to open my mouth, I was just stuck at awkward silence. Sometimes I managed to mumble a few words, hoping they understood me, but I always got an instant reply like "Sorry?" and "What's up?" I even failed to order a latte at a Starbucks. I was like "...I don't know how it's spelled, but I'm 100% positive 'tsup' means I can't hear you or say it again, or something. It only makes me nervous ;_;"
How long are you going to stay in Japan? I'm sure You'll soon overcome the fear. You'll just start getting used to it. It's totally ok to unable to make you understood. People always help you unless they (and you) are assholes. No one would be offended just because you're a learner of their mother tongue. If anything, most of the time even a few words in Japanese make them happy.
Certainly some may be annoyed if you're supposed to be fluent, which I was, but it's a matter of time. You've got some grammar and vocab in your pocket and are now living in the ideal place to hone your conversation skills. As long as you keep learning, everything is going to be all right.
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Anonymous2009-01-12 8:49
What does it mean when someone says 「～だろうが！」 ?
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Anonymous2009-01-12 12:10
>>457
Most likely it represents the speaker's annoyance or irritation and often means "It's obvious!" "Don't mention/ask/argue that!"
or "Get it?" This phrase is one of the most obscure Japanese words that has no direct English counter part. Some examples may help:
A: Who did this? 誰がこれやったの？
B: It's you, asshole! お前だろうが！
A: When are we going to leave? いつ帰る？
B: We should get going right now! 今すぐに決まってるだろうが！(決まってる or 決まっている in proper language means "is obvious," "is plain common sense" or something and is an oft-used prefix to だろうが.)
A: No. I can't. だめだ。できないよ。
B: Man up! 男だろうが！
It could mean "even though" or "doesn't matter."
A: It's a trap. そいつ、実は男だぞ。
B: Doesn't matter! 男だろうが！ (関係ない！ is more natural and versatile translation of "Doesn't matter!" It's just the Japanese language often omits obvious information freely so it's like "Doesn't matter!" and "If it's a he!" work the same way, meaning "It doesn't matter if it's a he.")
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Anonymous2009-01-12 12:28
Ah, the last example works better if it's about a reverse trap and B (B is supposed to be female and straight in this case) says 女だろうが！ because 男だろうが！ often means "Grow some balls," "Man up," and the like. Letters don't carry the nuance well so it may be misunderstood.
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Anonymous2009-01-12 16:09
あの廊下に立っている奴は俺のセックス奴隷で、もちろん後輩です。
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Anonymous2009-01-12 17:23
>>460
Sex slaves shouldn't be allowed to stand in the hall.
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Anonymous2009-01-12 21:10
Why do people use volitional form when only speaking about theirselves?
Any site that explains the text emoji?
like in m9（＾Д＾） the m are the knuckles and the 9 is the finger being pointed at you
there's tons like ヾ(≧∇≦*)〃. Like why is there a *, isn't that like sweat even though it looks excited? Then I can't even understand the arms.
(〃▽〃) ←4 eyed demon?
no commento
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Anonymous2009-02-10 22:25
I'm having problems structuring a sentence
Also, can you use こと twice in a sentence and not sound strange?
[They] have never heard of her
彼女のことは聞いたことがない
That seems maybe fine, but I've left out 'They'
This is where it gets weird, if I want to say 'They' how do I go along doing so?
彼たちは彼女のこと「particle」聞いたことがない
What particle do I use there? both は and が are used, and it just seems weird to use either in the middle.
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Anonymous2009-02-11 1:17
>>468
You can use こと multiple times in a sentence without sounding foreign. Actually your first example sentence is perfectly grammatical and sounds natural. Technically you can use こと more than twice if necessary, e.g.,
彼女のことを聞いたことがないなんて、おかしなことだ。(It's strange that [you/they/whatever] have never heard of her.)
As for the subject and particle problem, there are several ways to circumvent the no-multiple-は rule. A quick fix would be using another particle that is similar in meaning. In your case, を does the job:
彼らは彼女のことを聞いたことがない (Not important, but 彼ら sounds more natural than 彼たち.)
Replacing 彼女のことを with 彼女について also works fine in this case.
Another sophisticated way is changing your wording entirely. This requires a firm grasp of Japanese grammar and large vocabulary. Also, this may fall into the category of style, so I guess you don't need to systematically learn how to change a sentence.
That said, using は/が twice is ok in an informal situation especially when some artificial fix is needed to avoid double は/が. Certainly it is awkward if you "write" 彼らは彼女のことは聞いたことがない and it's grammatically wrong, but native speakers often "say" that kind of sentence in conversation and the sentence makes perfect sense.
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Anonymous2009-02-12 9:23
>>469
Thanks a bunch for the reply. You even answered a lot of the questions I didn't ask which is awesome.
I've actually got a question about こと
So far I've only seen it in the context of 日本に行ったことがありますか？
Does it mean "have you ever" more or less in english?
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Anonymous2009-02-13 18:15
>>471
Yes and no. One of important meanings of こと is quite similar to one of many meanings of the past perfect tense in English. The shared meaning is one of the most frequent usages of こと, so "past tense + ことがある" often means "have done" as in "I've been to Japan" means "日本に行ったことがある."
Certainly, when you translate a Japanese sentence using "past tense + ことがある" into English, a natural translation is most likely "...have ever done...", but the way a native speaker is grasping the meaning is quite different. I think it's just a coincidence, not a grammatical similarity.
I think こと is often used to keep a certain mental distance from the semantics of a sentence. For example, if you asked 日本に行きましたか？, the listener would feel you are direct and interested in the fact (a police officer may use this sentence structure when he interrogates you). If you put こと and say 日本に行ったことがありますか？, then you're indirectly asking the same thing and keeping a distance from the actual semantics "I ask you whether you have been to Japan."
I said 彼らは彼女のことを聞いたことがない was "They have never heard of her" in >>469, but technically 彼らは彼女のことを聞いていない also means the same (note that the latter sentence uses こと only once). The difference is that in the latter case the speaker is focusing on the fact that they don't know her, and maybe he is mentally involved, e.g., if you say 私は彼女のことを聞いていない, then you might be upset and could be implying someone should have told you about her while 私は彼女のことを聞いたことがない may imply you don't care if someone told you because the こと in 聞いたこと implies a mental distance.
The same goes for the slight difference between 彼女のことを聞いていない and 彼女について聞いていない (the former may imply your indifference to her), though the distinction is so subtle they're practically interchangeable. So, if you say 私は彼女のことを聞いたことがありません when you're asked if you know of her, the questioner may reply, "What are you getting at?" because the sentence could mean you're not interested in her or want to hear about her, and you could sound like you're superior. Of course, the nuance depends largely on your tone of voice and the literal meaning is the same as 私は彼女について聞いていません, which means "I've never heard of her," but there is a difference.
Anyway, you may not need to learn subtle nuances by dissecting a sentence using grammar. I think this kind of thing is one of the more difficult grammar points that you can't learn by translation (into English, of course). Actually the past perfect tense in English is one of the most difficult things for Japanese speakers to grasp, so it stands reason that Japanese grammar rules related to the English past perfect tense are harder to learn (for English speakers).
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Anonymous2009-02-13 18:31
Can someone answer what the -たんだ ending for verbs means? What's the difference between:
私は林檎を食べました
and
私は林檎を食べたんだ
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Anonymous2009-02-13 22:53
>>473
In your example, anything can follow the former sentence as long as it makes sense while it is more natural if the のだ version is followed by something like だからおなかいっぱい (so my tummy is full now). So if you reply, "林檎を食べました" when you're asked why you skip lunch, it sounds a little awkward, but 林檎を食べたんだ is natural.
Grammatically んだ is a spoken form of のだ, which places an emphasis on reason, determination, or meaning. But in reality, most of the time んだ just smooths the path to the next sentence or makes the meaning clear by restricting possible connotations/implications. I think it emphasizes a sentence only when the speaker's voice and expression is strict/harsh/whatever, in which case you're pretty sure about that anyway.
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Anonymous2009-02-14 20:06
>>473
tl;dr version (no offense to >>474 solid explanation)
私は林檎を食べました
i ate an apple
私は林檎を食べたんだ
It is expected/the reason is that i ate an apple
Your sentence isn't really a good example
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Anonymous2009-02-15 1:51
who the fuck writes it as 林檎?
fucking kanji obsessed weeaboos,
that's why 99% of you never learn jpn
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Anonymous2009-02-15 2:14
agathion
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Anonymous2009-02-15 3:06
>>476
It's not that rare. I can't write 檎 correctly but can recognize the character because I've seen it many times in my everyday life. You'd see it on a cardboard box or on a price tag in your average grocery if you lived in Japan. Also the word 林檎病, which means erythema infectiosum, is very common. Of course, if you're the kind of person who doesn't know what erythema infectiosum means, then I don't think you should learn 檎.
lol faggot erythema infectiosum is not a common word. eat my small asian penis.
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Anonymous2009-02-15 4:57
>>479
I think most of educated Japanese adults know that 林檎病 (fifth disease) and 伝染性紅斑 (erythema infectiosum) refer to the same disease. Didn't you know that?? English isn't my first language, but still I know that. I guess you're very young or English isn't your mother tongue. I'm sure you'll be familiar with those words in your native tongue by the time you consider having children (it's most common in kids).