How does the しまった work in 「心にしまった寂しさ」? Is it even 仕舞う? The best I can come up with is: The loneliness [put away in my heart?] is piling up like the falling snow.
「眠れない夜、窓の外に冬の匂い感じて、見上げたなら……恋色の空」
Is there any difference in meaning between 見上げたら and 見上げたなら? I used to think なら was only for nouns, but lately I've been seeing them with verbs too.
Thanks!
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Anonymous2012-09-05 15:09
>>3
The ideas you're looking for here are "close", "cut off", "contain". 仕舞う doesn't really come close; think to "end", "finish", "tie off", etc. 締まる・閉まる・しまる are your culprits. So your problem was simply misidentification. You could possibly say the loneliness "contained in" "quartered off in" "closed off in" my heart will come to pile up like a dancing/falling snow. Or something.
I wrote a long explanation of the differences between conditionals, which is your real question here. You can either go back in the threads and find it or look anywhere else for a satisfactory explanation. It has nothing to do with parts of speech. Here the thinking is: "if I/you/etc. were to, was to" where the result or subsequent will follow as a matter of fact directly related.
No, it's しまう, as in かばんにしまう (to put away in one's bag). こころにしまる doesn't make any sense (just compare googling "こころにしまう" vs "こころにしまる" or any kanji variants thereof).
Know of any image recognition matching japanese syllables program? I've not everything memorized so that'd be quite useful when you can't really write it into a dictionary.
im not sure how to interpret this?
are they saying they only issue prepaid webmoney numbers or they DO NOT issue prepaid numbers as they are readily availiable [elsewhere?]
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Anonymous2012-09-08 17:31
>>10
Disregard >>11's link and pick up the Genki books.
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Anonymous2012-09-08 18:31
>>13
They only issue prepaid numbers for use on specified sites, and not general use numbers (which it sounds like they used to issue). It would have helped if you provided the site this was on or a bit of context, though.
Tae kim's guide is pretty good. It runs through the grammar and gives examples. Genki is good too, but if you understand all of tae kim's then you're in a good place to start reading on your own and move away from structured learning textbooks.
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Anonymous2012-09-08 19:56
>>15
thanks, that actually makes sense.
Its a RMT website and i asked if they sold prepaid WM code, and they, like you say, only sell prepaid for certain sites (games) not prepaid for general use, although they do sell WM accounts pre-loaded, which is why i was confused as to how to interpret.
thanks again!
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Anonymous2012-09-10 4:01
I'm still trying to learn the basic Japanese verb forms. My textbook describes ~tara as a verb form which can mean if or when depending on context.
However, I notice the phrase なんて言ったらいいのかなぁ which I think the translation is 'how should I say it'.
How does that work? doesn't 言ったら mean '(if) he/she says'? Why is the ~tara form used here?
"What would be good if I said it" > "What should I say"
"should" does not exist in Japanese, so we use idiomatic forms.
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Anonymous2012-09-10 4:17
>>19
Just to avoid confusion, by "Should does not exist in Japanese", I mean that it does not exist as a single simple word. Of course the idea of "should" is perfectly expressible.
If you want to make things simple, just think of ～たらいい as "should" or "would be good".
In an attempt to be more complex, a sentence like パスタを食べたらいい would literally translate to "If I/you ate pasta, that would be good". Essentially, 言ったらいい basically comes out like: "If I/you said _____, it would be good", which in question form is more like "What would be good to say?"
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Anonymous2012-09-10 6:19
how the fuck do i send money to japan banks that dont have SWIFT codes? GG seven bank / net bank japan
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Anonymous2012-09-10 15:59
Is it worth buying 1945 flash cards for $112?
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Anonymous2012-09-10 17:23
>>23
Where are you finding such expensive flash cards? I don't see any point in dropping that much money when you can just download anki and work with that. You could probably buy an older ipod touch for that kind of money and use it mobile, even, if that's the issue.
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Anonymous2012-09-10 18:40
Is there a general term for readings that change when acting as a prefix? (not rendaku, since I think that's only for suffixes)
e.g.
雨, あめ to あま- (雨雲, 雨宿り)
酒, さけ to さか- (酒屋, 酒場)
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Anonymous2012-09-11 8:39
>>23
Fuck. No. Go to walmart, buy them for 50 cents, make your own.
>>25
As far as I'm aware, no. Just knowing the acceptions.
I come not, friends, to steal away your retard called SFBE.
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Anonymous2012-09-11 19:52
まぁ、さすがに寿士でもそこまで酷いことはしないだろう。
Assuming liberal translation, does "Well, I guess even Hisashi has a limit to his cruelty" stray too far from the original phrase?
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Anonymous2012-09-11 21:40
No, that's pretty much spot on. What makes you think it's too liberal?
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Anonymous2012-09-11 22:06
Just trying to strike a balance between both.
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Anonymous2012-09-12 2:46
The only issue I could see is that it makes no direct reference to そこ. Of course in the original it might have just been abstract, in which case it's ok, but if there was some consideration as to whether hisashi might do action X, it's probably best to put it something like "even hisashi wouldn't be so cruel as to X"
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Anonymous2012-09-12 7:34
I may revise it to "even Hisashi wouldn't go that far with his cruelty". How does that sound?
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Anonymous2012-09-12 8:06
>>32
Worse. Just keep thinking of it as "I guess even Hisashi wouldn't go that far/do something that cruel"
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Anonymous2012-09-12 12:52
i need help..i have problems understanding japanese complex sentences..i know the grammar very well, but when it comes to translate i`m lost. i already failed 2 times my exam about translating a page of random books in university..if the sentence is simple i get it..what do i do?
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Anonymous2012-09-12 15:43
If you have problems understanding complex sentences, then you don't "know the grammar very well". Grammar is more than just knowing how a particular particle works, it's how sentences are put together logically. The best thing you can do is look through example sentences and see the meaning of those. Only experience will enable you to quickly figure out the meaning of a sentence.
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Anonymous2012-09-12 16:05
>>35
Or just read, but if your problem is that you can't understand what you read, I'm not sure what that will get you.
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Anonymous2012-09-12 16:30
>>36
where can i find e books or online stories/books in japanese? maybe japanese books that are translated from english. thanks
what's an example of a sentence that you don't get?
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Anonymous2012-09-14 11:47
What's the best way to remember kanji? Stroke order and all that jazz. Right now i'm just writing the characters over and over on paper.
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Anonymous2012-09-14 12:44
>>40
Don't mind the stroke order too much. After a while, you will know the stroke order of 99% of all kanji without ever having written them.
As for memorizing readings and stuff, I feel that everyone really need to have their own way that works for them.
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Anonymous2012-09-14 12:47
>>40
That's how I learned them. Make sure to associate at least one reading with each kanji (read them out loud) when you're writing so that all three learning channels are used (audio/visual/kinesthetic).
Every so often, take a break and open a book, see how many you can identify on a page/chapter/etc.
つつある implies that it is trending towards something. Since I don't think this is exactly a new or increasing thing in Japanese society, it doesn't seem appropriate in this situation.
The comma you have before 重んじる makes it sound like you are still talking about 考え rather than moving onto a new idea. I.e., it sounds sort of like what comes after 全段階で should be something like 批判する. It would be better if you put the comma after 重んじるよりは, thus making the division of thought clear.
The second sentence seems kind of floaty and unclear, probably because of the split between children and their parents. You could realistically remove the 親は・・・認めている completely and it would be much easier to read.
There also could be collocation issues that I'm not aware of. For example, "実社会の職歴" doesn't give a single result on google, which seems odd.
well i studied these books: Minna no nihongo 1 and 2, A Handbook of Japanese Grammar, A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar, i have no other idea on what to read for grammar, if you have any other books i could read please let me know. I know how particle works, how to make passives/potentials/volitionals, the -Te form of verbs and adjectives ect..basic grammar/sentences is not the problem. What i`m struggling with is understanding longer / complex sentences and connect the meanings of the various parts of the phrase.
>>39
Example can be this, i know what the first sentence means, but i have no idea on how to connect it with the rest.
すると後ろからどんどん人が来ては、あら、時間がかかりそうね、という感じで去って行くのが感じられた。
then from behind, a guy came out saying `it seems it`s taking a lot of time`, and then 感じで去って行くのが感じられた i don`t know how to make it work.
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Anonymous2012-09-15 9:44
>>46
This isn't a "conventional" sentence but breaking it apart helps.
人が来ては is what you're likely having trouble with. 来ては is not simply 来る. It has to do with the relationship between antecedents and consequences, here saying that when the antecedent of A, the consequence B results as a condition of A.
「あら、時間がかかりそうね」 is indirect, quoted speech, referencing indirectly an example of what those people or that person does or might say.
という感じで meaning "upon/with that feeling/impression"
去って行くのが感じられた meaning "(The subject [likely I]) felt they/he would leave" "seemed to me he/they would leave"
Bringing it all together, "Thereupon/with that/etc., it seemed to me that the people/person that would come up behind me only did so to leave, saying 'oh, this looks like its going to take some time'" or something like that.
i see..this is the kind of problems i have. i can read and understand, let`s say, おとぎばなし, but when it comes to novels then i enter panic mode. thanks for the explenation tho
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Anonymous2012-09-15 14:42
I've learned Kana and am now advancing on through Tae Kim's site.
It introduced some kanji early on so I just learned it and rolled with it, but now I've got some Qs.
1. take 中学校 as example, 中 is pronounce chuu here, but 学校 which I thought would normally be "gaku" and "kou" got merged into "gakkou", is this normal or is this an exception or am I just missing something?
2. when I look up 中 on Jisho.org I notice there's like 5 different ways to say it, each having there respective definitions. But it still only has the 1 Kun reading as "chuu"
so how do I know which one it's supposed to be. And what sound should I associate a kanji with once I learned it? should I know all of it's definitions/sounds once I learn it?
3. I'm also kinda confused as to the whole kun/on thing
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Anonymous2012-09-15 15:16
The sounds are not absolute, there are changes when certain sounds come together. がくこう is difficult to say, so it becomes がっこう. There is also the rendaku phenomenon where sounds gain ゛ or ゜, becoming vocalized after certain syllables. 寸 （すん） 法 （ほう） becomes すんぽう, for example. It's more complicated than this at a linguistic level, but ultimately you'll just have to learn the words.
ちゅう is not a kun (original Japanese) reading, it is an on (borrowed Chinese) reading. なか is the primary kun reading for 中. Looking up a definition for a kanji and then memorizing all of the readings is an exceedingly poor way of learning them. Many are either extremely rarely used or are only used in certain nuances. Add to this the fact that some readings which are actually used are not part of the official readings, and you'll find that the best way to learn them is generally to learn them as part of vocabulary, rather than individually.
Most dictionaries list on readings in katakana, while kun readings are in hiragana. kun readings are the only ones which will feature okurigana, as well (kana which follow the kanji in making a word, such as る in 走る)
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Anonymous2012-09-15 15:33
Thank you, that clarifies a lot for me.
I'm just gonna stop trying to "fully understand" kanji for now and just go with the flow and try to learn the basics
If it makes you feel better, that's about as complicated as it gets (obviously there are many equally difficult sentences) for novels and the like. If you ever start reading philosophical stuff, especially things translated from/in response to English, it can get very circular and confusing, but unless the author is specifically trying to be verbose it's not too bad. It's a matter of understanding the rhythm and anticipating what comes next.
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Anonymous2012-09-16 4:46
>>52
I watt to read harder stuff Yes but i'm missing some steps here. It's like the things ive studied so far are useless When it comes to novels or the Likes, what am i missing? It feels like a giant rock is blocking my way.
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Anonymous2012-09-16 5:14
>>53
It takes a lot of time. I read at least one or two volumes of pretty basic stuff (most of a volume of Index until I gave up, then I started reading Haganai) where it would take me 5 minutes bare minimum a single page, and sometimes I would sit and look up stuff on a single page for half an hour or more. It's something you'll just have to work through.
One thing that helped me as well was playing video games in Japanese. I played Golden Sun DS and FFIX on my PSP. You get a lot of context and visual help, and there's motivation in the game itself.
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Anonymous2012-09-16 16:58
>>53
I'm in a similar boat. One thing I've found somewhat helpful though is to stop translating things mentally while reading, even if only to avoid the trap of thinking about Japanese with an English sentence-structure mindset. Here's hoping that persistence will get us there eventually.
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Anonymous2012-09-16 22:21
I'm covering negative verbs at the moment and I have a quick question. I understand how it all works with i adjectives; りんごはおいしくないです。
But I'm still a little stumped on na adjectives.
Would I write: ばかなぼくはじやない？
Also, I know the 'ya' should be small, but I forgot how to do that on a keyboard, could someone please remind me? Thanks.
Thanks very much.
な-adjectives are conjugated the same as nouns when in the predicate/sentence-final form.
Typing "ja" should automatically give you じゃ, of course you could also use "jya" or even "jilya" if you really like typing
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Anonymous2012-09-16 22:40
>>58
Ughh, fuck, don't know what happened there. I guess to make this post less useless, I should mention that you can up the formality with じゃないです or じゃありません.
>>60
B-B-But 「想定外のエラーが発生しました」 is all jouyou kanji...
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Anonymous2012-09-17 12:56
>>63 >>62
<3
Thanks you very much!
now its typed out i can dissasemble with rikaichan and see that thats not halfwidth katakana... >.> 外
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Anonymous2012-09-17 13:38
lemme get this right,
FURIGANA (the hirigana displayed above kanji for noobs like me)
is called furigana in japanese? because this jap kid I was speaking to didnt have a clue wha i was going on about,
maybe it was because there is a special kanji for the word furigana>?
Or ive got this all wrong...
Also! what is the romanji name for sound effects (like nom nom eating)
i know there is a japanese name for the SFX but cannot remember.
thanks for your time ^ ^
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Anonymous2012-09-17 14:30
>>65
It's also called ルビ (ruby). Furigana is a type of ruby text.
Also, there's no such thing as "romanji" (it's "rōmaji")
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Anonymous2012-09-17 21:50
Can some one please go over Na and I adjectives and their difference is structuring the sentence?
I though na adjectives came before the verb and I adjectives came after. Is this wrong?
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Anonymous2012-09-17 21:55
たべものはべんきょうよりすごいです。
Since 'Study' is a noun, this is right, right? (Excuse the shitty verb, I couldn't think of anything else.）
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Anonymous2012-09-17 22:56
>>67
I have no idea where you learned that, but na and i adjectives are used almost the same.
おもいくるま
"heavy car"
すてきなくるま
"lovely car"
あのくるまはおもい
"that car is heavy"
あのくるまはすてき
"that car is nice"
Only na adjectives can take だ as a sentence ending copular. I adjectives can take です, though this is sometimes seen as overly polite, as linguistically there is no need for a copula after an I adjective.
Also, there is no need for より to come after a noun.
一人になるよりは、嫌な人と一緒にいるほうがマシだろう。
It's better to be with someone you hate than to be alone.
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Anonymous2012-09-22 16:44
One guy says "[That's a] heavy knife."
The other guy replies "This knife is supposed to be heavy."
How would if look if they were speaking Japanese?
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Anonymous2012-09-22 17:38
>>72
"supposed to be" is a very nebulous concept and one that doesn't translate well to Japanese. Conversely many Japanese have difficulty with the difference between "must" and "have to", because these are represented by many things.
A natural way of writing that conversation would be:
このナイフ、重いね
そりゃ、重いナイフだからね
In a conversation like this, expressing the idea that "the knife is heavy by its very nature" is not generally done explicitly. What was your purpose in asking this question, if I may ask?
Are all healthy alternatives to just repeating what it is.
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722012-09-22 20:37
>>73 >>74
Wow, that's a very detailed and interesting response. Thanks. Sorry to say that I didn't really have a good or interesting reason to ask.
It's a famous scene from an Icelandic film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l5N1XTTEps
I was just wondering how it would sound in Japanese.
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Anonymous2012-09-22 21:07
>>74
yeah, something like 当然だろう？ in the situation posted by >>75 would make sense. I was thinking something where the person mentioning how the knife is heavy didn't expect it to be so.
To be honest the significance of the line (is the line the reason it is a famous scene?) is lost on me.
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Anonymous2012-09-23 10:04
Once a Japanese person (writing in English) said, "I'll be watching warmly gently to see what happens." When I asked him what he meant by "warmly gently," he explained saying he meant like the way a parent observes his child.
I've frequently read similar expressions ("warmly", "warmly gently") being used by Japanese people writing in English in contexts where no English speaker would use them. What Japanese word are they probably thinking of when they say that, and what does it mean in English?
>>77
alternatively 生暖かく (lukewarm) I've heard used with 見守る (watch over).
Translating directly it doesn't really make sense but the feeling behind it should overcome language.
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Anonymous2012-09-23 20:23
>>76
Well you could extrapolate further meaning behind the guy's response as the weight of a knife (or gun, or weapon in general) is heavy because it's used to take life, and with it, a great burden on the wielder.
That's what I took from it anyway.
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Anonymous2012-09-26 21:22
How can I learn the "r" sounds. I find りゃ、りょ, and りゅ very difficult too, because I don't think I'm even beginning to get the "r" sounds by themselves right.
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Anonymous2012-09-27 1:05
>>81
"Spanish R without the trill" worked for me but YMMV
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Anonymous2012-09-27 7:45
>>81
r's are soft d's like is the English name "Eddy"
Just tack on ya etc. and that's good enough
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Anonymous2012-09-28 1:48
What's the best way to go around learning all the different forms of words? When I want to say anything to do with apples, for example, I always say the wrong tense or form etc. How I stop this from happening?
>>85
Tabete, tabemono, tabemasu, tabeta, etc.
I always say something like tabeta instead of tabete, for example. Any tips on how not to get so mixed up all that time?
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Anonymous2012-09-28 13:52
>>86
Um...learn what they mean? They came naturally to me pretty fast since I see them everywhere. Also 食べ物 (tabemono) is a noun and not a verb.
>>88 >>87
Fair enough guys, hopefully I'll just pick them up with time. I made myself look like an ass when I said tabemono instead of fucking tabete.
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Anonymous2012-09-28 19:24
>>89
ridicule yourself enough and the humiliation will eventually force you into remembering
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Anonymous2012-09-29 16:15
Hey guys, I only know very basic Japanese at the moment and have been reading up on basic comparisons, such as.
りんごはねこよりちいさいです。
（This apple is smaller than the cat)
How would I say if something is generally 'better' than something?
Would I use Good いい？
Or can I just leave it as これりんごはねこよりです？
Thanks very much for the help guys - You've been helping me out so much!
>>91
Hi, I'm Japanese.
I think you should use Good(いい).
You need to put adjective after "より".
In this case, the adjective is Good(いい).
このりんごはねこよりいいです。
(This apple is better than the cat.)
This is the answer.
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Anonymous2012-09-30 12:45
Hey guys,
I just need a recommendation for books about learning kanji.
After doing some research, I've found Heisig book (volume 1) and it seems like a good book to give it ago.
However, I can see some flows in this book such as:
- There are no pronunciation/readings (no On/kun-yomi)
- It only teaches radical and kanji, no use of kanji in context (sentences/vocab)
As a result, is there any other book that has pronunciation or readings, and using kanji in context? Or is Heisig a good book?
Thanks.
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Anonymous2012-09-30 13:13
>>95
Heisig, I feel, makes you do more work for the same result.
I recommend www.kanjidamage.com as it's basically a non-convoluted heisig method as well as omits many kanji that aren't necessary to learn in this age.
>>95
Take a look at the Kodansha Kanji Learner's Dictionary.
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Anonymous2012-09-30 21:12
Thanks for the reply guys.
>>96
kanjidamage looks good to me. Though, is there a hard copy for this? I prefer getting a hard copy and practicing rather than doing it on internet.
>>97
Looks good but how does it distinguish from Heisig's book?
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Anonymous2012-09-30 23:42
>>98
It has stroke order, common vocab, kun/on readings, easy lookup, etc.
There's a digital copy (djvu format) floating around the Internet if you want to sample before you buy.
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Anonymous2012-10-01 0:56
why is there so much emphasis on stroke order? I can kind of understand it in regards to characters such as the katakana for 'Ko' but most of this case I can't see the reason behind the fuss.
I was watching a Youtube video and someone drew the Hiragana for 'Se' in the worng order and EVERYONE felt the need to comment, even though this wasn't teaching how to write 'Se' or anything like that. I just don't get it.
I would say it's more important for kanji than kana because of dictionaries and input-method lookups, but more generally, it helps your writing look more uniform.
In the case of the YouTube video comments, remember that (1) some people feel the need to demonstrate their superiority on trifles to compensate for their own failings elsewhere, and (2) those comments are almost always full of shit anyway.
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Anonymous2012-10-01 10:59
>>98
There's no hard copy for kanjidamage. I made my own flashcards to take with me throughout the day though.
>>40
Have you heard of Heisig's "Remembering the Kanji" series? In the first volume, he teaches the character without giving the reading/ phonetics in kana, so you only know the character through the word it's associated with in English (I think). In the foreword he talks about how rote memorization of kanji is extremely difficult because it's so far removed from anything we do in English, which makes the kanji harder to retain.
If you can preview and you can see the second page of the introduction, he talks about it in the 3rd paragraph down. I haven't bought the book yet but I'm really psyched about picking up the series. From what I know about it it seems like a really practical way to get into kanji seriously.
>>103
Woops, little unfamiliar with the text boards still, didn't realize how old this post was.
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Anonymous2012-10-02 16:42
I'm trying to find this book for my class, and the bookstore here is all sold out and won't be stocking more copies unless ten people say they're going to buy it, so that's not happening.
The book I need is 級日本語文法総まとめポイント20 / Shokyuu Nihongo Bunpo Soumatome Pointo 20
I've seen copies of it around on the 'net, but they were all oddly corrupted when I tried to view them, or the download links had expired. I'd really appreciate any help.
Am I doing something wrong? The file you linked, along with all the other copies I've found on the internet don't display in adobe. It says they're corrupted. I've had friends try to open it too, but to no avail.
Ah, thank you! thank you so very much! I was nearly at my wit's end trying to find this book and asking here as the last thing I could think of. You really saved me, thank you.
I'm looking for some Japanese audio conversations with transcripts that include kanji. I'm aware there are tonnes of podcasts out there (Not aware of ones with transcripts, other than the Jpods ones, but that's too much English involved?), and that I could get the audio from anime/J-dramas, but is there anything that's literally just everyday conversations + transcripts?
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Anonymous2012-10-04 14:25
Would you discourage someone from talking in Japanese to a friend of theirs who was also learning Japanese? 'Cause obviously you can reinforce each other's bad habits, I'm not sure if it'd balance out the speech practice?
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Anonymous2012-10-04 14:49
>113
I'm no expert, but it doesn't sound like a great idea. You could both be making huge mistakes without realizing it, and etc.
[did I at least get my point across? was I poilte enough??><]
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Anonymous2012-10-04 18:42
and krikey, why is it SO hard to get my money to japan>?
no one wants to deal with the gaijin like fraud plauge
any UK banks that will allow me to open in JP?
protip, HSBC dosnet anymore,
if anyone in japan wants to sell webmoney codes for markup less than 5800￥ for 5000points 2500￥ for 2000points please post!
>>115
No. No you did not. I haven't the slightest idea what you're trying to say. The slightest bit of context at all might help, but even with it I don't think anyone will know what you're trying to say.
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Anonymous2012-10-04 19:28
well fuck.
the context is, asking if theyt accept paypal as a payment method for digital real money trade service, as i currently have to pay high markup on webmoney points....
baka!
their reply~~
ＰＡＹＰＡＬ 対応はございません
本当にすみません
.... pointers?
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Anonymous2012-10-04 19:35
>>112
Just watch some regular talk show and you'll get lots of kanji in your face. It's an easy way to pick up new words.
>>115
Oh man I wanted to believe that was a horrible machine translation at first, but even those are unable to mangle the language this badly. Then again reading >>116 your English is shit as well. Take your hands off the keyboard and get out.
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Anonymous2012-10-04 19:38
>>119
"No Paypal, sorry".
You'll have to order your porn somewhere else, baka! Now fuck off.
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Anonymous2012-10-04 20:11
>>119
Japan's digital transfer system is stuck in the 80s and is unlikely to change any time soon. Just getting a bank account there is a bureaucratic nightmare, frequently requiring a sponsor (such as an employer) among other things. You're pretty much out of luck.
hey guys, would you do me a favour?
there's a manga artist on twitter, and I want to send him a message with words to the effect of this:
"hey, in the next chapter of your comic, would you make it so that all the speech/text is in speech bubbles/boxes? I think your art is very beautiful, and it upsets me when it's hidden or covered".
if anyone would translate that or write a similar message in Japanese for me, I'd really appreciate it.
Hey guys, I am just starting to attempt to learn the Japanese language. Currently, I can speak Spanish, French, and English decently. I have started to learn and memorize the Hiragana, but I am not sure where to go from there. Thanks in advanced, guys
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Anonymous2012-10-08 14:00
Sorry to come to you with this, but can anyone help me out with the first two kanji in this image: http://imgur.com/oORfn
I know the third is bright, and after that is like "senior high school", but I've tried looking up the first two to no avail. I'm more concerned with the reading than what they mean. Any help would be massively appreciated, thanks.
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Anonymous2012-10-08 15:19
>>136
Even though the radicals are clearly defined in this, I just don't think the first is a singular kanji and I can't find anything that is Japanese that looks like it other than 都立 (metropolitan). 都立東明高等学校 (とりつとうめいこうとうがっこう) is the best I can come up with.
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Anonymous2012-10-08 15:52
>>137
You have it right. Toumei (could potentially be some other weird reading but this is most likely) Metropolitan High School.
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Anonymous2012-10-08 16:01
>136
You should really just google the name of the anime it's from, it's on the damn wikipedia page for christ's sakes.
>>137
Thanks for the help man. I was running into the same problem. Also there seems to be an extra stroke on the 東 as well... I guess the animators are just making shit up to screw with fansubbers... thanks again anyway.
Is till don't fully understand. What's wrong with using てべた instead of てべました？Sorry for my incompetence, I've never used te or ta form before, I'm just following a simple rule that was taught to me.
たべた (note the た, you really need to read over what you write before you post) is the plain form, たべました is the polite form. If you use です (also polite form) for the second sentence, it sounds somewhat inconsistent to use just たべた for the first.
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Anonymous2012-10-09 13:25
>>147
I see! Thank you very much, that clears up a lot for me. Also thank you for pointing out my poor spelling there, I seem to only be able to get one thing right at a time, haha.
Thanks very much, it really helps a lot.
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Anonymous2012-10-09 13:33
ATTENTION YOU CHEAP FUCKS
BUY. A. GODDAMN. TEXTBOOK.
Not only will you actually LEARN, you'll do it faster.
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Anonymous2012-10-10 17:21
この映画館は今月限りで閉館されます
I am given the translation of this as "This movie house is open only until the end of this month."
I have two questions;
The very minor one is, movie house? Is this synonymous with cinema? I have never seen this used.
However, the real issue is, I would have thought it means "This movie house/cinema is closed only for this month.", as I'm reading 限り as 'limited', and で as the time marker, so I get something along the lines of "limited to the end of this month, is closed", giving me "closed for only this month".
Is there an ambiguity in the sentence, or am I interpreting the grammar incorrectly?
Here is some discussion about this. In this case かぎり is used in the sense 期限, meaning "end of a period", and that is why it means "closing as of this month". It is something of an idiomatic usage.
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Anonymous2012-10-10 20:12
What does 勉強しないとね means?
Is it the same of 勉強しないといけないね?
Is there a way of identifying when it's used like this? If there is, I would guess it's the use of で simultaneously?
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Anonymous2012-10-11 7:57
Can someone tell me what kind of 'level' I should be at by the time I have finished the Intermediate dictionary of Japanese Grammar? I'm sentence mining to pick up vocab/grammar, and it's sticking incredibly well, so I will definitely continue. However I'm wondering, should I just jump straight into visual novels afterwards? Or still stick with textbooks? It seems even doing this is something of a stretch.
You should always break away from textbooks as soon as you feel comfortable doing so and go back to them only if you need a refresher on something.
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通りすがり2012-10-12 12:55
>>154
「限りで」とあったら、「限り」はじゅうようではなく、消して考えて良い
今月限りで閉館＝今月で閉館＝ open only until the end of this month
「限り」を'limited'の意味で使うケースもあるが、そのばあい
今月 に限り 閉館します
と書くが、こういう掲示（notice）はあまり見かけない
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Anonymous2012-10-13 19:38
>>155
There's no "level" ranking to be put into, so that's not something you should concern yourself with. Native sources don't come graded, you'll just have try and see.
In most cases you'll find a pattern of the same words being repeated over and over within the story framework, so after getting past the initial barrier it'll be an easier ride from there on. If one VN proves to be too difficult you can always attempt at reading another one instead.
On my old laptop, I used to be able to use the IME no problem to type katakana with the whole consonant then vowel to produce a moonrune. Now, each letter on the keyboard corresponds to a kana (or something along those lines) and me trying to type in nip ends with me just hammering the keyboard until I stumble across the right symbols.
Does anyone know what setting I'd have to change to go back to the old method?
>>162 has a good option, but you should also be able to just go into language settings on your ime and change your keyboard layout.
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Anonymous2012-10-15 0:29
Hey all, I am currently in language school in Japan. It's not really as "fun" as you might think, but I have a question. Is there a comprehensive app that I can put on my ipod to look up kanji with no reading given by drawing them? My friend lent me his electronic dictionary that had the writing pad on it for a while but he needs it to study for JLPT1. I really really need something to look up kanji in class without having to constantly ask my Chinese classmates-and half the time they give me the Chinese reading of it.
how the fuck do i type '' づ /zu/dzu'' (i copy paste from wiki)
as in つづく
like you see at the end of every episode,
because obv i get ず or ズ from the windoes JP ime
I tried to use an online kanji lookup, but either there was no entry for it, or I simply used it wrong.
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Anonymous2012-10-19 19:09
>>172
it looks vaguely like ヘチ but to be honest it's probably a signature/highly stylized character and you're not going to know what it is unless someone already knows what it is (i.e., knows something about plate manufacturers, I guess)
Googling ヘチ doesn't give much of anything, either.
Are you sure it's Japanese?
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Anonymous2012-10-19 19:27
>>173 http://ompldr.org/vZnkxaQ/IMG_20121019_15541938561237.jpg
it looked like Japanese to me, and the plate is very much a Japanese sort of look, I suppose it could be something other than Japanese. I started by looking up the kanji for all the Japanese prefectures and none of them match, so I was thinking it could be a signature. I might need to find a community geared towards dishware if it's a signature.
It may very well be Japanese, I was just tossing that out there. It doesn't look like any characters I'm familiar with, and I know a decent amount. If it is indeed a character or characters then it's very highly stylized. Sorry I can't be of any help, perhaps someone else here might recognize it.
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Anonymous2012-10-20 6:37
I'm looking for images of girls in sundresses. Is there any other term for sundress other than:
>サンドレス?
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Anonymous2012-10-20 9:12
>>174
In all honesty, it's just a shitty attempt to make something look Japanese (just like the plate itself)
I just thought it might be interesting to see if I could find out when/who made it, there is some stains on the backside of the plate from the flow blue on it, you can even see a small blue stain on the lower right of the first image, making me suspect it was hand-made.
主 seems to be あるじ here as in "lord". この身 is himself. "In the same way as she chose me as her master". Context is important, though. Why ask for a translation of a single sentence without giving any context?
I'll post the passage, and what i poorly translated it to be, my skills are still awful.
「問おう。貴方が、私のマスターか」 I will ask, are you my master?
闇を弾く声で、彼女は言った。 she said in the darkness
召喚に従い参上した。 I come according to your summons
これより我が剣は貴方と共にあり、貴方の運命は私と共にある。ここに、契約は完了した」
My sword is with you in this, your fate is with me. Here, the contract is completed.
そう、契約は完了した。 Yes, the contract is complete
彼女がこの身を主と選んだように
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Anonymous2012-10-21 16:59
闇を弾く means to blast the darkness or push back the darkness or what have you. 闇を弾く声 "a voice that sunders the darkness", I guess? Don't know what to put for the English.
With something like よう you can't leave out the sentence after that, as they're linked:
彼女がこの身を主と選んだように。
きっと自分も彼女の助けになると誓ったのだ。
"As she had chosen me as her master, surely I too had sworn to be her ally"
Regardless of how rough the English is, that's the idea. If you're just starting out, Type-moon stuff might not be the best idea. Nasu is very melodramatic and there are tropes coming out the ass in his works, ones you won't be familiar with. I won't say don't do it, but I will say you're going to have a hard time.
Also, this isn't directed solely at you, but for god's sake POST AS MUCH CONTEXT AS POSSIBLE EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD WHO ASKS QUESTIONS. A single sentence will NEVER get you a good answer, unless that sentence is intended to stand alone (say, a textbook example). Don't give a rough description of "a guy is talking to a girl and he says x. Translation help?" Give a fucking transcription, please.
You should still pick something you enjoy. If Galaxy Angel is something you're interested in, then I think that would be a good choice. Lighthearted things are often easier to understand, although humor can be difficult to translate.
Further, I don't know what your specific goal is, but you shouldn't learn Japanese by trying to translate. That's a sure path to failure. Translating is way more than just knowing Japanese and knowing English. You need a basis in Japanese itself (i.e., the ability to read Japanese) before you can start making any meaningful translation happen.
1-2 hours of my bare minimum, this used to include kana until i memorised them all, now its just kanji and vocabulary i've added to anki, re-reading genki etc.
Then i just do whatever i can in japanese in my spare time, anime/music/whatever i can, its not really structured, thought translating a VN might help.
The end goal is to be fluent as possible in approx. 12 months time, As then i have to work for a year in japan, although its in a english speaking lab i'd still like to be able to talk to people whilst i'm not in work.
>>186
A year is a reasonable amount of time to get conversationally competent. Just keep inputting as much Japanese as you can and you should become able to output over time.
>>189
It would help if we had some kind of context about what you're writing or why, or for whom. What are you trying to say? "it's easier for clever guys with no emotion than guys with lots of emotion to fulfill their goals by convincing the women they seek that they have strong emotions"? Then it doesn't make sense to use 方. You're not comparing methods, you're comparing guys.
其れ等 looks kind of pretentious but I'll leave that up to you.
I also don't know what you're trying to say with 女の目から無愛想にする力を持っている. 無愛想 means unsociable or rude, it's not really used for romantic emotions (i.e. a guy can be 無愛想 but still love his wife, he's just not very good at being friendly/personable). 女の目から無愛想にする is the part that really weird to me though, I assume you're trying to say "makes them seem unromantic in the eyes of women". You could say something like 女に冷たく感じさせる or something like that, though ideally you'd restructure it a bit so the causative isn't necessary.
If I've misunderstood your intent I apologize, but I found this very difficult to read, at least compared to my usual material.
It is easier for an artful Man, who is not in Love, to persuade his Mistress he has a Passion for her, and to succeed in his Pursuits, than for one who loves with the greatest Violence. True Love hath ten thousand Griefs, Impatiencies and Resentments, that render a Man unamiable in the Eyes of the Person whose Affection he sollicits.
Oh, so it's an E>J translation. That makes much more sense then (as to why it sounded so strange). I don't envy your job.
One issue is your "and" in the first sentence. You could say ～納得させ、そして目標を成し遂げるのが楽である and that sounds better to me. There might be a better way to say "succeed in his Pursuits", because frankly I'm not sure if the English has some kind of nuance I'm missing.
Not sure how to fix the latter one, then. You could try the 冷たく感じさせる but that sounds a little too colloquial given how the original is. I'm afraid something like this is beyond anything I can (or would like to ) do.
You've probably already looked this stuff up but if not, here's some other translated quotes of his that might give you some inspiration.
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Anonymous2012-10-25 17:11
hey lang, where can i find sentences to translate and exercise online? Like short stories (please not the kid ones), random sentences, you know, just to practice comprehension skills
japanese wikipedia, asahi shimbun, aozora bunko, etc.
go nuts.
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Anonymous2012-10-25 18:31
how do you write, 'cool' and 'the best/ number 1'
as in, i hear it all the time in anime as,
ka-kuii! cool かっくいい？
sai-ko! the best さいーこ？
I cant look them as i cant spell it, or its slang, or kana?
[like thats cool!, you're cool! /not actually cold]
and when i search, obviously it comes out as PSYCHO so, although i want to use, im afraid im going to be saing the wrong thing
does this mean something like: from sometime`s zero? wtf does this mean?
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Anonymous2012-10-28 4:02
>>206
Congratulations, you win the "least context of the year" award! The community presents to you: we have no fucking idea because you've given us no context!
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Anonymous2012-10-28 20:06
>>207
it`s a title of a song man. thanks for the award tho ahah
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Anonymous2012-10-28 22:05
>>208
If you're looking at song lyrics/titles, which are highly stylized and intended to sound nice or poetic, you can't, in general, expect exact translations to sound good (or vice versa). "from the eventual zero" or "from someday's zero" or whatever you want to translate it as.
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Anonymous2012-10-31 6:30
When you are typing in hiragana, what is the key combination to switch to katakana? I'm writing a paper and speed is a necessity.
>>210
ALT+[that key left of the 1] for cycling hirigana/ katakana, or like above said type in hirigana and press f7 when highlighted still and will chane what you typed to katakana or f8 for halfwidth...
please seed/ help for you?
thepiratebay.se/torrent/6958333/Japanese_Mega_Learning_Pack
downloaded 9gb, uploaded 15gb and only 24% complete @_@
Okay, I'm learning the Kanji... my mind is trying to break apart kanji that appear to be made out of more than one kanji symbol (e.g. . But since each kanji seems to have a different meaning when alone, opposed to together, it would be better to just memorize the kanji as a whole for that one meaning, and nothing more?
Related note, this is annoying... I have to see the kanji, attribute it to a story for memorization's sake, learn the spelling/pronunciation and finally link the pronunciation to what it means in English. Is this the norm for learning it?
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Anonymous2012-11-05 13:35
Extension:
When learning the Kanji, should I bother trying to memorize the pronunciation, or just the image of the idea it's conveying? Example...
Kanji: 子供
Meaning: Children/Child
Pronunciation: kudomono
I Visualize: Kids
For practicality's sake, would it be better to associate the kanji with the pronunciation, and THEN link that to what I visualize? Or, would it be more efficient to skip the pronunciation and just see the kanji and refer to my visualization in order to understand its meaning?
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Anonymous2012-11-05 14:47
>>220
Stop visualizing shit. You aren't going to be able to visualize abstract concepts. Meaning and reading. That's it.
You're obsessing over this way too much, and your reading for 子供 is way off. Learn words, and pronunciation for kanji will follow. I don't see much benefit in memorizing kanji in isolation, though I did find Heisig to be beneficial.
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Anonymous2012-11-05 18:23
Why does みって見る？ translates into "Want to see?
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Anonymous2012-11-05 18:56
>>223
みって見る？ isn't a thing. 見てみる？ means "want to see?".
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Anonymous2012-11-05 19:03
>>224
Ah that's it, thanks!
Is there any significant difference between that and 見たいか
Explicitly, no, but they sound very different. 見てみる is softer and more friendly while 見たいか sounds rough and masculine.
A word of advice: it's best to learn patterns and ways words are formed (～の ending vs ～か for example) rather than worrying about differences between specific words.
From a technical perspective the 「～てみる」 form refers to the act of trying something out whereas 「～たい」 refers to desire.
For example:
ラーメンを食べてみる。 says you'll take the opportunity to try eating ramen, also implying either you've either never eaten ramen or this is a special ramen you want to try out. There's some kind of "new experience" going on.
ラーメンを食べたい。 just expresses your desire to eat ramen, and there's no indication it's a new kind of ramen you want to try out.
The difference between 「見てみる？」 and 「見たいか」 is very subtle and on the surface they're more or less the same like >>226 said. 「見てみる？」 is more like asking if you want to try looking, and there may be something to be gained by looking, either because it's pretty or interesting/informative or new or whatever. 「見たいか」 just asks if you want to see.
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Anonymous2012-11-11 12:41
So I'm tutoring some of my lower semester students in japanese, and cannot seem to find nice, intermediate texts for reading which are readily printable in doc or pdf.
I do have some books laying around but before I scan those poorly with my camera I thought i'd ask you guys.
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Anonymous2012-11-12 11:03
Are there any LNs with furigana?
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Anonymous2012-11-12 12:41
>>229
It's harder to find LNs -without- furigana, the question is how much. A lot of Nisio Isin's stuff for example might skip the furigana on words like 滑稽, but any LN will have readings for something like 我武者羅 (if they use the kanji at all). Comedies tend to have more readings as opposed to dramatic works.
Another thing that I've noticed is some (僕は友達が少ない, ソードアート・オンライン, ココロコネクト)"refresh" their furigana with each page, i.e., if they have 俺（おれ） written on one page (many LNs give the reading for this as it used to be 常用外) then they'll only list it once for that page, but then the next page they'll list it again. Other books (化物語,戯言シリーズ) will only list it once in a book, or once in a chapter.
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Anonymous2012-11-12 13:07
>>229
Yes, but seldom (if ever) for everything. You can count on furigana for names of people/places and puns, and also usually for 義訓 and 表外漢字. Depending on the target demographic, most will also include readings for 常用漢字 taught at the secondary level, along with compounds that include them. Sometimes there will be furigana even if all the words in a compound are written with 常用漢字, e.g. 先程 (because it is more commonly written 先ほど).
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Anonymous2012-11-13 4:03
In the sentence
そういえば，この前も彼は欠席した
That reminds me─he was absent last time, too.
What reading does 前 use? I got the sentence and translation from goo.jp's J-E dictionary, so I'm fairly sure it's an alright translation, but I can't figure out what reading to use for the life of me.
Guys I have a question about the わ ending particle (for example もう寝るわ).
I know it's kind of feminine, but I've heard boys using it too. How do I know when to use it?
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Anonymous2012-11-16 1:24
>237
It isn't always feminine. The easy answer is that it's a particle showing light emotion used more commonly in Western Japan, and it has falling intonation when used in this non-feminine sense.
Where should one start?
I assume memorizing all the characters first right?
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Anonymous2012-11-16 8:06
>>240
Disregard that, I posted before reading the thread
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Anonymous2012-11-16 12:48
>>239
I know what it means, I just wondered when males could use it without sounding feminine.
>>238 it has falling intonation when used in this non-feminine sense
Now that you mention it, I've noticed that. Makes sense. Indeed it sounds more agressive and manly with a falling intonation.
Thank you for your answers.
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Anonymous2012-11-16 12:52
>>239
Actually never mind, after reading over it again I got the difference. Thank you.
>>244
何となく乱雑な部屋が重苦しい感じがするかなと思ったら、
"When I think the burden of the messy room is getting to me..."
少しでも片付けてみると
"I try to tidy up, even if a bit"
確かに自分が圧迫から解放される気分になるということを改めて実感した
"and then I definitely feel relief from the pressure..."
All of that acts on 今朝... so maybe it's describing what happened this morning? (I'm still a beginner...it looked like a good exercise. Hopefully one of the experts can come do some magic...)
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Anonymous2012-11-16 22:42
>>245
That's pretty good, though I really don't like answering "translate please" type questions. It's saying the morning is one where he did all that.
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Anonymous2012-11-16 23:12
>>237
Using わ at the end of sentences is very much more of a Kansai thing to do. It's not typically done with 標準語 and makes you come off as kinda gay. If you are using kansai-ben though it flies much better. I'm at a loss of words as to describe how I use it but I use it almost like I'm shrugging my shoulders with the sentence.
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Anonymous2012-11-16 23:15
>>245
the 攻めてand onward portion would translate to something like "or so I felt this morning". It's a fine translation though. Keep it up.
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Anonymous2012-11-17 0:12
>>248
攻めて actually would be "all the more" "moreover" "again" etc. in this sense.
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Anonymous2012-11-17 0:38
>>249
You don't think it'd carry the connotation of "or at least" here?
yesterday i bought a sewing machine.. in 2nd hand stuff.. a japanese language write on it.. i just want a help for translate it.. it just a few word.
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Anonymous2012-11-19 4:05
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I find myself pondering a lot about picking the "right kanji." I know the basic ones (e.g. 温かい/暖かい, 始める/初める), but my dictionary doesn't always explain every single word and neither does the online 大辞泉/大辞林. Is there a good centralized resource for this, or do I have to google "(X,Y,Z) 違い" for everything?
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Anonymous2012-11-19 4:35
>>257
Google IME displays the differences between many kanji.
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Anonymous2012-11-20 23:25
Is there a site for Japanese recorded books?
Something like LibriVox perhaps, but in Japanese?
Is it acceptable in Japanese to write using Chinese words, like 我 instead of 私? Is it like using American word for something instead of the British word, or is it just wrong?
我/私 isn't the best example because that actually does show up occasionally in fiction (although it comes across a bit archaic/awkward). Additionally, 我々 means "we" (in the context of "our company/organization").
Now, suppose you used 你/妳/etc instead of おまえ/きみ/あなた/etc then you'd just get weird looks all over because those hanzi aren't in use (at all) in Japanese.
Then again, 孫中山 did manage to communicate with his Japanese friends by writing individual hanzi on paper, or so I've heard...
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Anonymous2012-11-24 16:27
>>263
Like >>264 said, no. Chinese and Japanese are not like English and British, they're like English and French.
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Anonymous2012-11-24 17:36
I have paid unlimited bandwidth webhosting for a couple years sitting around doing nothing, so I've been thinking of writing up a Japanese study website. Is there anything you'd like to be able to do on a study site that you can't do on other websites, or can only do on paid ones? It would be free, I make plenty of money from my actual career.
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Anonymous2012-11-26 4:28
I need a little help with my Japanese grammar.
I'm trying to ask, "Whose blue book is that?", is it as simple as "だれのあおいほんですか？” or does it have to be changed?
I need a little help with my Japanese grammar.
I'm trying to ask, "Whose blue book is that?", is it as simple as "だれのあおいほんですか？” or does it have to be changed?
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Anonymous2012-11-26 14:30
>>268
It's fine. Though I would probably say 「だれのですか？ そのあおいほんは」 (Why? I'm not too sure myself.)
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Anonymous2012-11-26 19:55
>>268-269
additionally, i would say その青い本はだれの？ it sounds more casually.
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Anonymous2012-11-26 20:19
I notice -ai sounds replaced by -ee sounds a lot. (like 冷てー, もう子供じゃねー, バカみてぇ, etc) Is there a word for this? part of a dialect, maybe? or just casual slang?
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Anonymous2012-11-26 20:40
>>271
If I'm not mistaken, it originated in Tokyoben buts its pretty common/understood everywhere nowadays. And yes, it's slang and should pretty much never be used unless your competent enough to back it up.
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Anonymous2012-11-29 2:58
Do I have these right?
忘れたい人 - a person (I) want to forget, or a person who wants to forget (something)
私が忘れたい人 - a person I want to forget
私を忘れたい人 - a person who wants to forget me
忘れられたい人 - a person who wants to be forgotten
When modern Japanese speakers are reading Heian-era Japanese and come across words written in kana, do they pronounce them according to modern rules or Heian-era rules? Like, would they pronounce あはれ "ahare" or "aware"?
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Anonymous2012-12-04 21:30
>>275
If you're talking about 旧仮名使い then they pronounce it according to how it was actually pronounced. You don't have to restrict this to Heian era, this applies to things made within the last century as well. Things like でせう for でしょう, 書かう for 書こう, etc.
What would be the best way to word "can you explain this? 「ｗｏｒｄ ｏｒ ｐｈｒａｓｅ Ｉ ｄｏｎ’ｔ ｕｎｄｅｒｓｔａｎｄ」"
Would 言い諭します or 説明します sound more natural in this case?
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Anonymous2012-12-05 9:54
>>276
Never heard 言い諭す and don't know where you found it. ～します is not a proper form for a request. The form you use will depend on who you're talking to, but ｘという言葉を説明していただけますか or ｘってどういう意味ですか are two options.
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Anonymous2012-12-05 22:46
Hey there guys. I seem to have come across my first hurdle in learning this language. I've pretty much mastered the kana and am aware of the basic language rules. I can say a good verity of simple things such as 'Where is the train', 'What time is it?', 'cats are cuter than dogs' etc.
I still cannot understand conversations at all save for picking out key words and in general I don't know where to focus. Any advice on where I should go now?
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Anonymous2012-12-06 5:51
Where would be the best place to study conjugation? I'm finding tons of words in my reading material that I can't decipher the exact meaning being, such as: 避けようって. It's also hard to figure out how certain kanji are modified by following and preceding words when there's no particles. For instance, this: 罠だと仰ってましたよ.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-06 6:08
>>280
If you're having that much trouble parsing things, you should probably look at more example sentences that have translations with them/study grammar more.
と is a particle, as is よ, so there are certainly particles there. I'm not entirely sure what's tripping you up because rikaichan picks up the conjugation of おっしゃる just fine.
>避けようって
This is not one word, it's 避ける conjugated into 避けよう which is then followed by って. The meaning will depend greatly on the context because there are a multitude of uses for って.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-06 6:18
>>281
So does that mean that だと isn't a word on it's own? As in, 罠だ is followed by と rather than だと following 罠?
And you're right, I haven't spent as much time as I should have on the -te form. Where would be a good place to look for an explanation? Guidetojapanese?
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-06 6:26
>>282
Tae Kim's is fine. You should be aware that 仰ってました is 仰っていました, i.e. 仰っている, which is a form I hope you are already familiar with.
だと is listed as one entry but that's mostly for convenience (it's also not correct in this application, assuming you're looking at the EDICT entry "if it's the case"). The definition of "a word" isn't so simple, you can look at it however you like. だと is the copula だ followed by the particle と, and in this case it's a quote: "He was saying it's a trap". It could also be the conditional と, but that doesn't make sense in this application given the past tense.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-06 6:50
>>283
I'm aware of -masu and it's difference to -iru. It's just sentence structure I'm struggling with.
Anyways, your help is much appreciated.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-06 10:14
>>284
Just break apart sentences. And stop putting your mind in a box by finding "words" or any other patterns you're accustomed to in English. Though they have parallels, English and Japanese have no absolute equivalents in anything. Learn the language on its own terms.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-07 1:07
Someone help me to study English. Please talk me.
So I'll teach you Japanese.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-07 1:07
Someone help me to study English. Please talk me.
So I'll teach you Japanese.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-08 4:38
Not >>279 but I'm interested in hearing what you guys have to say on this. (I feel like I'm in a similar spot; I can read okay, but listening? Yikes)
Almost complete beginner here. I'm looking to start an online Japanese course, but I have no idea how to choose a good one. Which should I go with? JapanesePod 101? TextFugu? Nihongo o Narau? Something totally different?
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-12 2:37
Do any of you know of well-written Japanese textbooks on mathematics, computer programming, economics, physics, or chemistry?
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-12 10:30
Dear /lang,
I'm using a number of resources to learn Japanese and I've encountered something ambigous. Bear with me, I'm only at a low-beginner level and my mothertounge is not English.
So, if I want to say I'm telephoning someone, which one of the two below is correct (or are these two forms equally correct)?
電話をします
電話します
I'm asking this because the textbook software called Human Japanese says that if you use a noun before します you are saying "to do X". Like 練習します, 料理します、, etc.
But in the Michel Thomas Japanese Foundationd & Advanced course they always use 仕事をします、リラックスをします, etc.
Then again, in Human Japanese they say that ピアノを練習します。
So... which usage is correct? I suspect that both, but if you specify a direct object (like piano), you have to put を after it, otherwise you can decide if you use one or not.
>inb4 real language usage: I googled these sentences in both forms and the difference between hits was in the margin of error (I believe).
>>291
Both are technically correct but there are nouns that are suru verb compatible and those that aren't. Those that can be enacted with suru do not necessarily require wo and thus become complete suru verbs.
>>293
Thank you very much for your answer. I haven't used jisho.org befire, but from now on, I believe I'll frequently refer to it in my continuing studies of Japanese.
Thank you again.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-12 22:51
>>292
Thanks. My skype Id is [yoh-mo].
Please contact me.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-13 23:06
Hello jplang!
Is it OK to omit え for に when using as a partial (directional?)
Is there times when it would sound ungrammatical
Because it seems like one of those like dropping the u off desu type slurs
Is there any times where you should use e not ni
Sorry for noob, thanks for help...
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-13 23:23
>296
It's written へ, and へ and に are not the same. に indicates an end destination (in the sense you are talking about) while へ indicates a direction. Sometimes they are interchangeable, but the meaning will change.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-14 0:46
Thank you I will study more to understand it.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-14 13:21
I'm JLPT N4 level, are there any LNs that I would be now able to comprehend at some basic level? Or if anyone knows site with Japanese children books in PDF that would be great
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-14 13:34
>>299
Google Aotori Bunko books, or buy some on Amazon. Pre-high school level stuff. Classics, greek myths, fairy tales, good stuff. It will put you up to N3.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-14 19:00
>>299
you can get started with light novels as long as you know how to break apart sentences
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-18 9:21
I've been leafing through this anki deck, and there's something that's confusing me. It translates the two sentences as follows:
あの本を読んで良かった。
I'm glad I read that book.
あの本を読めれば良かった
I wish I had read that book.
However, I can find no other source that says the ば conditional is used this way. Is this right or not?
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-18 10:29
Japanese shame & goofball & bugouter is Okazaki.
His skipe ID is "gjaogjaojoev3"
Please whip whip whip, lol.
It should be 読めばよかった (I wish I had read that book vs I wish I had been able to read that book) but there's nothing strange or peculiar about this usage. It's just "(would have been) good if (I) read that book".
>>306
After looking up the distinction between was vs had been, I think you are right in that 'had been' doesn't make much sense without some other context.
I only avoided 'was able' due to confusion with the subjunctive 'were able'.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-18 19:46
>>306
What distinction? Between was able and had been able? Everyone here understands what the original sentence means. Who cares.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-18 19:48
>>308
If no one cares, why bother to correct? I agree with what you are saying, in any case.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-18 21:43
>>309
Now HERE's a distinction: supplementation and correction
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-19 19:25
goodevening /lang/ how is it best to interpret this?
>緊急帰投性能
emergency return ability? its from a Gundam game, here is a screen shot if you can help it would be appreciated.
Why does this confuse you? Yes, that is exactly what it means. Something you'd hit and be able to return quickly to base by teleporting or rocketing away or something.
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-19 19:54
i havent started playing yet, just helping out with some translations so i dont know the game in regards to why there would be a stat that you can increase that would improve emergency escape/ homing/ return ability?
Name:
Anonymous2012-12-20 12:41
>>313
Integrity of the hull, power of the boosters or teleport mechanism. If the technology is better the stat is higher I'd assume.
Can anyone explain me something about giving/receiving verbs?
I know that:
Ageru is when I give someone else something,
Kureru is when someone gives me something,
Morau is when i have someone do/give something for me.
This is basically what it means, but what if i saw 2 strangers/family members exchange items, let`s call them A and B.
which verb should i use in the case of A gives B something, still ageru?
And what about B gives something to A?
Feel free to add if i miss anything, thanks
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-16 9:49
>>329
You might be getting more technical than need be.
Kureru - when you or someone in your in-group receives [He GAVE me]
Ageru - when ANYONE gives to ANYONE (of equal or lower status)[I GAVE him]
Morau - when ANYONE receives from ANYONE (general) or when you or someone in your in-group receives something [The boy received / I received]
What is it like learning the language? I need as much info as possible from people who have learned or attempted to learn Japanese.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-17 22:00
>>332
Yes, they "mean" that but even in English "break", "destroy", "smash", and "tear" all have different "meanings"
The distinction is easily discernible if you just search each on jisho.
But, if you're too lazy or stupid to do that:
壊れる - general "break", though common for machines, physical things that would break in that sense
倒れる - more closely "fall", as in a boxer who goes down or even a business going bankrupt
割れる - "break" or "torn" as into pieces, like ice or paper, anything fragmentary
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-17 22:00
>>332
Yes, they "mean" that but even in English "break", "destroy", "smash", and "tear" all have different "meanings"
The distinction is easily discernible if you just search each on jisho.
But, if you're too lazy or stupid to do that:
壊れる - general "break", though common for machines, physical things that would break in that sense
倒れる - more closely "fall", as in a boxer who goes down or even a business going bankrupt
割れる - "break" or "torn" as into pieces, like ice or paper, anything fragmentary
Hello /lang/
I was reading the previously posted Learn Japanese by Tae Kim and I came across this:
"Negative: Same as i-adjectives, replace 「い」 with 「くて」.
This rule also works for the polite 「です」 and 「ます」 endings."
How the hell I change です and ます to the negative te-form?
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-26 0:37
>344
You're parsing the page wrong. The "negative" line is its own thing. That part about "this rule" is just general, and it's the reason for the two examples that follow.
He probably could have formatted it better, and put a space after the negative, like this.
Positive: Conjugate the verb to its past tense and replace 「た」 with 「て」 or 「だ」 with 「で」. This is often called the te-form even though it could sometimes be 'de'.
Negative: Same as i-adjectives, replace 「い」 with 「くて」.
This rule also works for the polite 「です」 and 「ます」 endings.
Examples
学生です → 学生でした → 学生でして
買います → 買いました → 買いまして
Generally even in polite sentences you simply use なくて. Technically you can say ませんでして, but this is rarely used.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-26 4:55
You know I don't think I've ever seen でして, ever. It's always だって / であって.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-26 5:10
>>346
Dunno what to tell you, it's relatively common in polite speech. Also, だって is not the same as でして. That would be で/であって.
Oh, thank you >>345
I don't have anyone to help me with this kinda of thing, sometimes my constructions seem a quite odd and i can't check if I'm right in a reliable way. ha ha ha
I knew about this thread but sometimes I'm quite ashamed of my posting style, because of that I'm afraid to ask a lot of questions ha ha ha
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-26 14:21
I've only recently gotten the confidence to compose more than a sentence or two, so I've been screwing around on 2channel a bit for some practice. PS3 Journey thread, search for アメリカ人旅ビト for my posts:
The folks in the thread laid it on thick with the "Duuuude your Japanese is amaaaaaziiiing!" so I've gotten kind of a big head and I'd like to have it deflated with any nitpicks you folks could graciously offer.
It's a bit embarrassing that I spend a lot of my posts talking about myself instead of the thread topic. Maybe it would have been better had I not called attention to the fact that I was a gaijin.
Personally I feel like I rely on けど and したら a lot and wonder if it makes my Japanese sound a bit samey. Also I have a bit of a complex against introducing myself as the sentence topic. I wonder if any of these could be read easier with the addition of an 俺は.
Ask more questions. This thread hasn't seen much action lately. There's nothing wrong with not knowing something, and asking questions is good as long as you've made a basic effort to understand the problem (which I believe you have).
On reflection maybe saying HEY GUYS I WROTE ALL THIS SHIT PROOFREAD PLZ wasn't helpful, especially in an ask questions thread. Forgive my rudeness. I have to go right now but I'll be back in a few hours with some proper questions about my Japanese.
You mix a lot of informal and formal, written and colloquial forms/grammar and its pretty awkward. You can tell you're not a native but I suppose that's to be expected when you post with the name you did.
Name:
3502013-01-26 23:56
Indeed I have not! But I am well aware of the stories of how Japanese is the WORST most CRAZY DIFFICULT language EVER and even we Japanese have trouble with it how could a poor foreigner even hope to COPE with its EXTREME awfulness! (笑)
Thanks for the critical words. It hurt to be told, but I guess somewhat awkward is the best I could expect from my dabbling. I like to think, though, that is at least not altogether unpleasant to read.
This marks the third time I have been told by a fellow (I assume) gaijin not to mix polite and casual forms. I posed the question to a Japanese of whether this was really all that important, at least on internet junk like 2channel, and was told "don't worry about it". Maybe he was just being polite, like the ですます he used in his response.
Lacking the will to do any REAL study, I'm pretty much just able to regurgitate the shit that I'm always reading. I guess I'm okay with that for now. I'll just have to be careful not to get too full of myself and act like a tard. 「日本語下手」は外すべき made me smile so hard.
* #771 was the てぇ～ too much? I don't know what I was thinking.
* #776 I got the impression from my IME that ひと旅した wasn't natural, but I typed it anyway. Maybe I had ひと狩りしようぜ in my head? I saw someone else say just 旅した, I guess I should have said that.
* バグにかかった. I've never actually put any real effort into studying conjugation, I believe I need passive here, came up with かかれられた or かかられた but I got the weird feeling that it wasn't right. I can't even explain why. I have a feeling this sticks out like a sore thumb さすがに外人の日本語だなー仕方ないなーと思われそうだ
* 空まで真上へ飛んだ. Jisho says 真上 means "just above; right overhead". I wanted to say "straight up", is it okay?
* The description of where I flew when I caught the bug was a bit technical and I have no idea how clear (muddy) it sounded. How would you have described it? Here's what it looks like: http://i.imgur.com/gdYCZ2W.png
* #788 I got this really damn strong feeling the moment I posted that I should have said 似てるかによる instead of ～かより. Should the か be there? "Yeah it sort of sounds like a bird." I'm not really sure how to word this.
* I wanted to say that I HAVE seen "sing", but not nearly as much as "call" or "cry". I think the も might have been counter-productive in that regard. Sort of reads to me like I said that I've seen "sing" (but that I haven't seen "call" or "cry").
* #791 探したらいいのを見つかれる. Awkward? I'm reading 探したらいい and that reads like something and then I see the のを and it trips me up and I have to re-parse. And I wrote the fucking thing!
* #794 自然に使いそう redundant?
* Why did I even make the 冗句 joke. Again I am so sorry.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-27 5:20
私は日本から来ました。
Hi, I'm from Japan.
I have a question about English number agreement.
Which thread shoud I use? Can I ask here?
◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇
Id like you to proofread these.
"Have you ever met an involved parent who want their student to be a begger?"
"We never see a parent who force their children to be a ‘begger’."
What sort of parent do you think would want their children to be a begger?
A native speaker said the following.
>unless the children merge and become one,
>it should be plural. At least, I'm fairly certain.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-27 5:30
#771
Too much or no, you sound like a girl or a douchebag.
#776
>ぜ
Unless you're being ironic, ぜ died in the 90's. Other than that, do you mean 一人旅? Travelling alone?
>バグにかかった
It works.
>真上
Usually "directly above" something. Using まっすぐ is probably the most natural.
>なんかちょっと鳥の鳴き声に似てる
This is fine
>アリ
Just say aru.
>singなら見たこともある
This is possible to understand through context but it requires some thought. 「Sing」という言葉も使われるのを見たことある etc. or simply 「Sing」も見たこと（が）ある
探したら、いいのを見つかれる
Or instead or nominalizing with "no", just say what you mean. This isn't English, where its "bad form" to repeat words.
自然に使いそう
Fine.
...take a break form the internet and just study more.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-27 5:39
Hey lang, how would you say in japanese ``Drink the medicine X times a day/week/month``?
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-27 5:52
ようこそ。
まずは、文法の訂正ですね。
>"Have you ever met an involved parent who want their student to be a begger?"
「Have you ever」だから「したことある」と聞いているんですね。そういう文法だと、日本語と同じように文の動詞は過去形にします。結果は「wanted」となります。そして、「begger]はミススペルです。正しいのは「beggar」
"We never see a parent who force their children to be a ‘begger’."
この文章は前の文脈とつながっているなら、問題点は同じですね。過去に起こったことについての会話だから、動詞はそれに応じて変わります。
「We never see」は「We never saw」に
「who force 」は 「Who forced」に
それか、"We have never seen a parent who forced..."という構成も可能です。
>>354
The point being that Japanese will always complement your Japanese no matter how much shit it sucks. If you can say a few words, you'll receive the same reaction someone with a Master's would.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-27 7:52
>>358
どうもありがとう。
Strange!
So, when no context involved, what youre saying is;
A
Have you ever met an involved parent who wanted their student to be a beggar?
B
We never see a parent who force their children to be a ‘beggar’.
C
What sort of parent do you think would want their children to be a beggar?
Correct?
But there are still some who say...
↓
>That native speaker is correct.
>There are a couple of other mistakes as well, and 'beggar' is misspelled.
>
>The correct sentences would be:
>"Have you ever met involved parents who want their children to be beggars?"
>"We never see a parent who forces their children to be beggars."
>"What sort of parent do you think would want their children to be beggars?"
Name:
日本人2013-01-27 8:05
>>357
``Drink the medicine X times a day/week/month``?
この薬を（一日）に（一回）服用して下さい。
飲んで下さい as well.
Name:
日本人2013-01-27 9:33
Sorry, one more thing.
"What sort of parents do you think want their children to be a begger?"
↑
Is this sentense missing something?
Don't we need 'would' or such?
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-27 10:15
can anyone tell me in which forms verbs/ NA and I adjectives bust be used when directly and indirectly quoting someone?
thanks
Name:
日本人2013-01-27 10:32
I don't really understand your Englishman, sorry.
If you could refrase it for me, I could be of your herpesvirus.
I mean, help.
Goddamn this stupid apple product.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-27 10:44
if i quote directly or indirectly what a person is saying, in which forms do i put the verbs/adjectives before と言いました。？
Name:
3502013-01-27 11:10
"Study more" would imply having studied in the first place, now wouldn't it? Besides giving up 600 characters into Heisig and occasionally referencing Tae Kim, studying is not a thing I have done.
>they'll always complement you no matter how much shit you suck
Yes, this is what I was saying with the diatribe there. I get the point. Still, you can hardly blame them when ALL of the gaijin Japanese they come across is awful nonsensical gobbledegook.
>ぜ died in the 90's.
In that thread alone:
53 一周したぜ 102 寂しいんだぜ 111 遊ぼうぜ 113 いるんだぜ 305 欲しかったぜ 384 するぜ 390 終えてきたぜ 548 なってたぜ 577 飛ぶぜよ！(`･ω･´) (... yeah okay that one not so much) 604 出来ないぜ 617 良い思い出なんだぜ 623 ほしかったぜ 627 なるぜ 680 構ってやるぜ (though this one seems ironic too) 682 しようぜ 722 遊ぼうぜ 760 出したんだぜ 793 引いちゃったぜ 802 物語なんだぜ
But yeah I'll yield the point and cut back on the ぜs.
>一人旅
Nope. The game is called Journey (邦題は「風ノ旅ビト」), it takes an hour or two to play through start to finish and I usually call one playthrough "a journey". I'll just go with 一周する or 旅する.
>アリ
I've seen it used this way. Seems real netslangy though. Perhaps reckless of me to try to sprinkle that stuff in at my level. I'll try to be careful.
貼ってくれた例文を翻訳してみると、理解してもらうかもしれません。
>"Have you ever met involved parents who want their children to be beggars?"
「自分の子供に乞食になってほしい、その教育に関与したい両親と会ったことあるか？」
>"We never see a parent who forces their children to be beggars."
「私達は強制的に子供に乞食になることを強いる両親を決して見たことがない。
>"What sort of parent do you think would want their children to be beggars?"
「どんな両親は自分の子供に乞食になってほしいだと思う？」
過去形だと、
”Have you ever met an involved parent who wanted their student to be a beggar?”
自分の子供に乞食になってほしかった両親と会ったことあるか？
ABCの会話の流れを簡単にすると、こう見たいな形になります
A
Have you ever met an involved parent who wanted their student to be a beggar?
（過去に、そのことしていた人と会ったことある？）
B
We never see a parent who force their children to be a ‘beggar’.
（今も、そのことしている人を見たことない）
C
What sort of parent do you think would want their children to be a beggar?
（例えば、いたら、それはどいう人なのか？）
>What about tense agreement?
The tense agreement in all these sentences is okay.
>"Spider monkeys have a very long tail. They use IT as their fifth limbs. "
I don't think I would say that. It seems like it should be 'limb', not 'limbs'.
"Spider monkeys have a long tail. They use it as their fifth limb." That sounds fine to me.
"Spider monkeys have long tails. They use them as their fifth limbs." That's also correct.
For what it's worth, I agree with the Australian. "limb" sounds better than "limbs", and I would consider "beggar" more correct than "beggars". However, I do think that I am likely to say "beggars" or "limbs" if I were speaking.
Name:
日本人2013-01-27 21:13
I am wondering, then, why the Australian doesn't follow his rule through and though?
Not
"Spider monkeys have long tails. They use them as their fifth limbs."
but
"A spider monkey has a long tail. It uses it as its fifth limb."
or
"Spider monkeys have long tails. They use them as their fifth limbs."
Not
"Spider monkeys have a long tail. They use it as their fifth limb."
but
"A spider monkey has a long tail. It uses it as its fifth limb."
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-27 21:39
>>374
"Spider monkeys have long tails. They use them as their fifth limbs."
In this sentence, "fifth" already contains plurality, so adding an "s" to "limb" is redundant no matter what the case.
If the sentence was "Spider monkeys have long tails. They use them as their limbs" that would mean monkeys have more than one tail.
The best way to correct this is to simplify it:
"Spider monkeys have long tails. They use them as a limb". In this sentence "a limb" contains the connotation they have other limbs but use the tail as an additional one.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-27 21:58
じゃあ
「クモザルは長い尻尾を五本めの手足のように使います」
と言いたい時
A spider monkey...
で始めるともう駄目ですね
そんなことは話し言葉では難しそうです
書き言葉でもたくさん存在することを考えると、正しい用法と考えていいですか？
↓
What kind of teacher do you think would want their student to be a beggar?
Spider monkeys have a very long tail. They use IT as their fifth limbs.
>>376
>"Spider monkeys have long tails. They use them as their fifth limbs."
>In this sentence, "fifth" already contains plurality, so adding an "s" to "limb" is redundant no matter what the case.
You would be correct if you were talking about a single monkey.
"My tail is my fifth limb" -- correct.
"My tail is my fifth limbs" -- incorrect.
But we're talking about multiple monkeys. Each monkey has its own tail, so just like monkeys is plural, tails is also plural.
"Our tails are our fifth limbs" -- correct.
"Our tail is our fifth limb" -- only would make sense if there was a single tail that everyone somehow shared.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 5:33
if i quote directly or indirectly what a person is saying, in which forms do i put the verbs/adjectives before と言いました。？
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 7:38
>>379
そうでしょう、そうでしょう。
だから
>unless the children merge and become one, it should be plural. At least, I'm fairly certain.
というのは言い過ぎだと思いますよ。
If the rule is logically broken, and everybody does not seem to follow, who cares?
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 9:39
>>379
Yeahhh... I'm pretty sure this is a matter of colloquialism. Some countries/regions might add this s, and some may not.
"Second limbs" "Third limbs" "Fifth limbs" makes no difference, you just don't pluralize it, no matter the plurality of the subject.
Everyone I know would say:
"The classes use the book as their fifth text"
"Our tails are our fifth limb"
etc. are totally fine.
This kind of agreement goes outside of grammar and mixes with connotation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 9:42
how do i ask in japanese:
If you have the fever, how much temperature is it?
熱があったら何度ですか。
is this correct?
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 11:59
>>379
The problem here is generality. "Fifth" or any other (second, third, etc.) should take a singular noun in most cases.
"Our tail is our fifth limb" is not incorrect, and the explanation you provide actually makes sense if this sentence is spoken by the monkeys themselves, as they all knowingly share an additional limb outside of the four they recognize, then categorized collectively as their "fifth limb". It's merely a matter of perspective. It would be slightly odd then, in the case of a monkey speaking, to say "Our tails are our fifth limbs". "Our tails are our fifth limb" is much more natural considering this perspective.
In the sentence "Are these fifth limbs merely the origin of species in the evolution of the android?", the use of "fifth limbs" is most natural, because the limbs in question are being referenced as a whole, in a general sense and not necessarily owned by or tied to any one thing.
All in all, "limb" used with a counter is most clear in the singular. "prehensile tails that are used as fifth limbs" is correct but "prehensile tails that are used as a fifth limb" owns more clarity, especially when a limb in the sense of a tail is known to be singular itself, despite whatever plural group it can possibly fit into.
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Anonymous2013-01-28 12:07
>"Spider monkeys have long tails. They use them as their fifth limb" correct
>"Their tails are fifth limbs" correct
>"Our tails are our fifth limb" correct
>"Our tail is our fifth limb" correct
>"Spider monkeys have long tails. They use them as a limb" correct
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日本人2013-01-28 20:28
>>383
That communicates, but sounds gaijin.
熱があるの？何度？
熱は何度ありますか？etc.
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Anonymous2013-01-28 20:35
This isn't a Japanese language question per se, but I just got a new notebook with Windows 8, and I'm having a problem with IME. Does anyone know how to set the half-width alphanumeic input as the default input? Ever since XP, half-width alphanumeric has always been the default, so it's throwing me off.
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日本人2013-01-28 20:37
みなさんありがとう
大変ためになります
結論として一言確約が欲しいんですけど、国や地域によって下の文章はありえるんですよね？
What teacher would want their student to be a dropout?
35 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2013/01/28(月) 21:15:30.61 >>27
Do you just personally favor strict number agreement and accept other answers,
or think it is the answer and others are errors?
Do you follow the rule every day, in every essay and speech?
そもそもこんな文を認める時点で矛盾が発生するでしょ。
Many Japanese tourists carry a camera.
「カメラを携帯する日本人観光客は多い」
Many Japanese tourists carry cameras.
大勢で一台のカメラを携帯するのか
一人で複数のカメラを携帯するのか
結局「常識」で判断している。
Don't you think this agreement rule is flawed in the first place?
多くの人が無視しているならルールの方が間違っているのでは？
36 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2013/01/28(月) 22:06:04.90 >>35
Oh, I definitely agree that the rule is flawed. Most rules of English grammar are flawed.
The best thing is just to read and listen to as much English as you can, so you get a sense for what sounds
right and what doesn't. That's how native speakers do it; we don't try and apply grammatical rules.
And you are correct, often it comes down to using common sense to figure out what a sentence means.
But there are some cases where getting the number agreement wrong does make the sentence incorrect.
For example, the sentences in >>4 that said "children to be a beggar" sound completely wrong.
I would never use that phrase, and nor would any other native speaker.
What teacher would want their studentS to be a dropout?
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Anonymous2013-01-28 22:50
>>392
If you're talking about the relationship between a teacher and a student, even if there happen to be multiple students (as in a classroom setting), it makes more sense to drop the plural. Using the plural implies that you are referring to the whole class becoming dropouts, which is not the case. It's talking about the teacher's desire to ensure each (individual) student does not become a dropout, and the singular makes perfect sense. Stop making corrections if you don't have any actual basis or evidence.
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日本人2013-01-29 0:07
>>393
I see.
Sorry, I just wanna know how English works. I'm a persistent student.
My high school was horribly bad, so it was pretty possible even for an entire class to become a whole bunch of dropout losers.
haha.
so this makes perfect sense
#1. A teacher would not want their student to be A dropout.
this works only when the whole class becoming dropouts,
#2. A teacher would not want their studentS to be A dropout.
And maybe this makes sense
#3. A parent would not want their childREN to be A dropout.
when all the children s/he has could become dropouts, right?
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日本人2013-01-29 0:10
違ったかな…(汗)
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Anonymous2013-01-29 1:15
>>394
I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were someone else correcting me. I didn't mean to snap at you like that, I'm just not having the best night. Anyway, enough about me.
I don't think that sounds very correct to me. I would either say students to be dropouts (referring to a class) or student to be a dropout (referring to either a single student or on the general philosophy of the teacher). Mixing them sounds odd. I can't comment on Australian English.
I'm sure you're probably aware, but asking these kind of questions is really difficult and often becomes a question of "what does 'correct' mean". I wish you luck and welcome other responses.
>>398 http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/thsrs/15266/m0u/
It can be read as either, but あと is more common and のち is mostly used in formal writing. It's also used in certain expressions such as 後ほど (のちほど) and 雨のち晴れ (あめのちはれ).
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Anonymous2013-01-29 16:03
>>397
にっぽん sounds more stiff and old. That's about it. The reading will have to be inferred by context, and in pretty much any modern usage it will be にほん.
My guess is due to vowels being dropped, either something like jak-metsuirak- or jak-mets-irak-.
In the first case, it's つい is pronounced like 就いて, in the second case, つ is whispered and い stressed due to 為 being a separate kanji.
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Anonymous2013-01-30 17:17
>>402
What vowels dropped will depend on dialect and on situation. There are no stresses in Japanese, only high/low pitch (which also varies based on dialect). 寂滅為楽 IS pronounced じゃくめついらく.
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Anonymous2013-01-31 5:57
In jidaigeki or fantasy games/anime/manga, I occasionally hear adjectives end in き instead of い, like how the NDS game "The world ends with you" is called 素晴らしきこの世界 and I also recall in Tales of Vesperia where the heroine was called 忌まわしき毒. What meaning or nuance does that き bear? Of course, I can guess that it's old language but is it as simple as "It's just an old way to express adjectives"?
>>404
"It's just an old way to express adjectives" is pretty much what I was told when I asked my teacher
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日本人2013-02-02 8:52
>>404
I don't usually use 素晴らしき or 忌まわしき.
It's a bombastic expression.
If I use that expression,They must say "You make something look better"
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Anonymous2013-02-03 15:58
Doujinshi collector, scanner and editor here. I'd like to know if anyone knows of a good (and hopefully cheap) service to help me translate my books that I upload. I only know of several, and most of them are either a) unreliable, or b) too expensive. Although I kind of doubt it, I'd also like to know if anyone from here would be able to help me out with translations in exchange for me providing and editing the material.
Another question I had, was if there was translator services available online that would be able to help me communicate with Japanese easily. Things like, ask yahoo!auction sellers certain questions about their product, or just be able to give me descriptions of what they are selling. Any help is appreciated.
Saludos! I finally committed and am learning Japanese and am focusing a bit on glossary and learning the Hiragana at the moment. There's this great tool:
And I wonder if there's something similar with basic words. For instance you select a certain number of "allowed" Hiragana and/or Katakana and it spews some random words which you have to write out in Rommanji. I am asking this because while I am now able to quickly get the characters right when I try to read it takes me ages because I hardly ever read in context.
If there is such a tool I'd be grateful if you could share, g'night.
I could do with help deconstructing a sentence, although my vocabulary is improving and i know a fair few words, i still have huge issues with grammar.
だからそんな顔をしないでほしいんだ。悲しい夢に負けないでほしい.
I loosely translated this to be, 'So don't look like that, don't lose such a sad dream'.
am i roughly correct? the ほしい is really throwing me off.
>>418
Potentially splitting hairs but "don't look like that" would be better translated as "don't make that face" (which is actually much closer to the meaning and structure of the Japanese)
Also, the English imperative for "(te-hoshii" might be a bit strong. "I don't want you to- " or something along those lines better preserves the idea.
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Anonymous2013-02-07 12:43
>>421
not >>418 but it's always bugged me, is there any significant difference between using ～てほしくない vs ～ないでほしい?
I noticed that some characters that I write are simplified even though Japanese uses the traditional form. For example 直 is missing the left vertical stroke. Any way to fix this? I'm using Windows 7 and Microsoft's IME.
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Anonymous2013-02-14 3:37
>>424
What are you talking about? Can you give a screenshot? What you write and what is displayed shouldn't be any different. That 直 looks perfectly fine to me.
How would you say words like Micromanage or minmax in Japanese?
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Anonymous2013-02-15 11:36
>How would you say words like Micromanage or minmax in Japanese?
If you mean the name of the algorithm, it's "minimax" (not minmax), and in Japanese you'd just say ミニマックス. If you mean optimize (I've heard some gamers use the term like that), that's a word you can look up in a dictionary.
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Anonymous2013-02-15 12:53
極振り means to put all your stat points in one category. To be honest, though, if you're not capable of looking this stuff up yourself in Japanese, you're probably not at a point where it's worth worrying about. http://ng-gross.wikiwiki.jp/
Here's a wiki with a bunch of terms.
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Anonymous2013-02-15 15:24
I want to learn to read Japanese, but not so much interested in speaking. Will speaking just come along as an added bonus, or will having no use for it prove detrimental as a whole?
Can do with listening (Vidya, TV), if the speaking part is needed, but don't really have anyone i can speak to.
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Anonymous2013-02-15 17:14
>>431
I was in a similar situation (just wanted to read articles/novels, didn't care much about speaking). My experience has been that reading aloud helps retain new words, and that trying to "think in Japanese" helps comprehension a lot (and really helps kicking the mentally-translate-everything-to-English habit). Don't know if that counts as "speaking" for you, but anyway, ymmv.
While it is the gaming term "minmaxing" I'm referring to, I want a way to express it in real life situations where anyone would understand. 極振り is not what I meant. Also, while I looked up optimize, オプティマイズ was the only word that came up and I'm not sure Japanese people who don't speak English would understand that.
Let's make an example.
Something like turning on the shower before undressing so the water's running while you undress. That way, the water is warm when you enter.
Or something more on the level of what I'm trying to express.
You know you're gonna be playing laser tag next week. In order to "minmax" for that day to get ready for some asskicking, plan your sleep time so you definitely get enough sleep that day. Plan your training schedule to avoid muscle soreness for that day. Confirm that you have the nessecary clothing at home to be coverd in black, and yet easy to move around in.
Call the place you're going to be playing at and ask for a copy of the floor layout and ask about finer details in the rules like "Does accuracy matter?" and "Please explain all the possible ways to earn and lose points".
So I'm looking for a way to express that in Japanese. It doesn't need to be a single word.
You would probably also want to throw some ～ておく in there.
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Anonymous 2013-02-18 8:20
I am in totally opposite situation.
I need someone I speak to in English.
But, on the other hand, I don't want take risks by meeting someone whom I found on the internet. even if he or she said he or she was willing to help me.
I am here to learn English.(^^)v
(I am not sure this website will help to learn "GOOD" English...)
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Anonymous2013-02-18 15:21
Anyone interested in helping me piece together lyrics to a song? It's from the soundtrack of a visual novel, and I can't find lyrics of it online anywhere.
>>40
James Heisig's Remembering the Kanji is a quite damn good book for doing that and teaches you to approach kanji systematically as it guides you through learning the a bit above 2000 jouyou kanji. Opinions differ on it since it simply teaches you to write and recognize kanji (no readings or compounds), but I'd suggest you to download a copy of it and try it out for yourself.
It means "Hey, [insert the name you omitted]. You might wanna be careful not to accidentally reveal which random wifi you're on when you're stealing it."
>>454
yes you should supplement it with a lot of other stuff. newest version isn't worth caring about unless you can easily dl it, in which case it's not really worth using the old one, is it?
It might help if you imagine a comma after 言って. 問題をこじらせる means "to cause/exacerbate problems". ことか is "how" in sentences like "How beautiful it is", etc.
So (with no further context) you get something like "How much have I been hated, how many problems have I made worse by telling people 'you are going to die soon'".
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Anonymous2013-03-14 10:41
>>461
(something else) symbolizes the legend of the holy spring gushing forth.
Would help if you gave more context, because there's a topic missing here.
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Anonymous2013-03-14 10:42
>>461 >>463
Just looked it up, the previous sentence really should have made this obvious.
「ペガサスは 「泉」を意味するギリシャ語が語源。 聖なる泉が湧き出る伝説を象徴するものよ。」
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Anonymous2013-03-14 11:12
>>464 >>463 >>462
wow what a beast. how come i`m having so many problems understanding these long sentences?
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Anonymous2013-03-14 11:22
>>464
so it is Pegasus that simbolizes the gushing forth legend, right?
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Anonymous2013-03-14 11:27
>>465
Because you haven't read a lot of Japanese and don't know that 湧きだす is often used for water or the different ways こと can be used.
>>466
No. 泉が湧き出す. The spring/fountain is what is gushing. The legend is about a gushing spring. You should google pegasus spring and see the legend about how the pegasus was formed in Greek mythology.
>>467
i`m watching dramas with japanese subs, and the words i don`t know i try to translate them, sometimes it works, other times i just don`t understand them. what should i read? newspapers?
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Anonymous2013-03-14 11:55
>>469
You're doing fine. I didn't mean that you need to work harder or change something. It just takes time.
I find reading helpful because it's purely visual and when you understand Japanese narration you understand a lot of other things, but you can do whatever you like.
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Anonymous2013-03-14 12:07
>>470
i`m open to all kind of suggestions :D about reading, it`s either too easy or too hard, there is no middle way. i usually read things from here http://hukumusume.com/douwa/ or here http://www.bauddha.net/. if you have more interesting things to add, please do :)
What should you learn after Hiragana and Katakana? Tae Kim / Genki + Kanji? Or just full focus on Tae Kim / Genki and learn Kanji later? Learned Hiragana and am on second day of Katakana now.
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Anonymous2013-03-21 21:41
>>473
Trying to learn kanji on their own is going to become a headache. You're better off learning them with vocabulary. The goal is to get to a point where you can read without constantly checking a dictionary, so your best bet is to read Tae Kim and then start studying sentences.
What is the correct way to say?
1.- 絶対にじゃまをしないを約束します
2.- 絶対にじゃまをしないに約束します
3.- 絶対にじゃまをしないと約束します
I'm confused about using here wo, ni or to
If someone can help me, I'll be grateful!
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Anonymous2013-03-24 16:44
>>478
If you're trying to say I promise I won't bother you it's best to just say 絶対に邪魔しないから or something. Asking for a translation without context (who are you? who are you talking to? when?) will get you a bad translation.
That said, the only grammatical one of your 3 options is the last one. とis used as a quoting particle.
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Anonymous2013-03-25 19:02
Would someone be kind enough to translate the missing parts of this? In the middle starting from "Yagate shizumu ao no tsuki wa" up to "Ashita wo...nomikomu tada no maboroshi". The actual song is here if anyone wants to check it out http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDg2NjQ1ODQ4.html
燃えて星が空へ墜ちる
遠くから近くへ
Moete hoshi ga sora he ochiru
Tohku kara chikaku he
The burning stars fall through the sky
like messengers from afar
熱さ 感じるわけはないのに
熔けそうな囚われの檻
Atsusa kanjiru wake wa nainoni
Toke souna toraware no ori
Although I can feel no warmth from them
the bars of my cell seem to melt away
すべて焼き尽くして
こわれた世界に 新しい場所を見せて
Subete yaki tsukushite
Kowa reta sekai ni atarashii basho wo misete
Incinerate all before you
and show me a new place for us in this broken world
ふたつのこころが 重なる運命の刻
優しい目で頷くひと
守りたいこころに 裁きのひかり
このまま... 笑顔は消えてしまうの?
Futatsu no kokoro ga kasanaru unmei no koku
Yasashii me de unazuku hito
Mamoritai kokoro ni sabaki no hikari
Kono mama...egao wa kiete shimau no?
When the fated dawn arrives and our hearts become one
you will nod to me with gentle eyes
I wish to protect your heart,
wherein lies the light of judgment
Will our smiles all fade away?
やがて沈む青の月は
近くても遠くて
Yagate shizumu ao no tsuki wa
Chikakute mo tohkute
だけど忘れないで
願った世界が 終わると知った後も
Dakedo wasurenaide
Negatta sekai ga owaru to shitta nochi mo
ふたりがこころを 重ねたのは罪じゃない
私たちに下る定め
逃れたいこころの 忌むべき影は
あしたを... 飲みこむただの幻
Futari ga kokoro wo kasaneta no wa tsumi janai
Watashitachi ni kudaru sadame
Nogaretai kokoro no imubeki kage wa
Ashita wo...nomikomu tada no maboroshi
ふたつのこころが 重なる運命の刻
優しい目で頷くひと
守りたいこころに 裁きのひかり
このまま... 笑顔は消えてしまうの?
Futatsu no kokoro ga kasanaru unmei no koku
Yasashii me de unazuku hito
Mamoritai kokoro ni sabaki no
Hikari Kono mama...
Egao wa kiete shimau no?
When the fated dawn arrives and our hearts become one
you will nod to me with gentle eyes
I wish to protect your heart,
wherein lies the light of judgment
Will our smiles all fade away?
Is there a actual computer program anyone uses to help learn Japanese? Reading things on websites is great but I feel like I learn more through hearing things. Also I think following one program would be easier than bouncing all over websites like I've been.
Would take lessons but I'm short on money at the moment so any suggestion would be appreciated.
A lot of people use Anki. I've never liked it but I guess some people really find it helpful.
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Anonymous2013-04-03 16:57
you're all a bunch of weeaboo faggots who need to die
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Anonymous2013-04-05 8:16
how do I determine if its worth studying its Kanjii version (i.e. if its one of the commonly Kanjii) of a new word I just heard? dont want to learn useless Kanjii.
>>40
I found that writing something over and over in a short time span isn't helpful in remembering (but its helpful to improve your handwriting)
if you want to learn/remember the Kanjii you need to put it in the long-term memory which means being exposed to the word over a long span of time. practice it abit today. practice it abit tomorrow and repeat it dont do it 30 times in 10 minutes, do it 5 times over 10-15 days.
your advice is alright but i don't know why you are giving advice when you don't even know basics like determining where to place your study focus
just about every word's kanji are worth learning, unless you wish to be illiterate. if you are talking about learning to write them then maybe not. is it a word you'd find yourself using? if so learn to write it. if not fuck it
personally i stopped bothering with learning to write kanji years ago after realizing i never even write using the alphabet and put my efforts into reading instead. writing does help a lot with recognition, but i find i'm doing just fine without it anyway
seeing as how you're writing kanji as "kanjii" consistently you can't be more than a few weeks into studying japanese. i'm sure you're having a lot of fun writing the 10 kanji you know over and over on paper, but being able to write doesn't amount to much more than a party trick to pull out on nomikai to impress japs it's pretty much redundant in this digital age
>>485
also you're replying to a person who posted over half a year ago lern to fucking shiichan retard
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Anonymous2013-04-06 6:53
>>482
>following one program would be easier
i'm sure it would but there's no "one program" to take you to fluency
language learning is a long process. don't just randomly visit websites. which are you using anyway? most are complete shit
download a pdf of genki and supplement with tv go do it now faggot
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Anonymous2013-04-07 12:24
>>486
Pretty much. The only time you'll ever really need to write is when filling out applications or providing mail addresses or something. And even then you can do it in roman letters.
A flash card system or simply reading is sufficient enough to drill kanji into your head. The push for writing is the same push for "proper spelling" in English.
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Anonymous2013-04-07 17:31
What's good after RTK1? I've done kana and am 250 kanji in RTK1, and I'm wonder what I should do after. core2k/6k?
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Anonymous2013-04-08 0:52
I want to move to and work in Japan. What is the best degree I can get in 'murka that will net me a job in Japan? Non-teaching, of course.
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Anonymous2013-04-08 1:36
>491
Anything that's marketable in America is marketable in Japanese. This is especially true for things that are not terribly language-centric, such as engineering jobs (as opposed to say, business, where there is more bureaucracy). Generally, the easiest way to do this is to have some kind of credential that makes employers think you are good at Japanese (be that study abroad, JLPT certification, or something along those lines) and try to join a Japanese branch of an American company.
>>490
You're still far away from the current goal, I'm sure you'll figure it out. With that said the keyword for progression is reading.
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Anonymous2013-04-08 11:17
>>492 >>493
So mechanical engineering would be good right? I'll aim for that then.
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Anonymous2013-04-08 17:28
What's a good way to practice intermediate to semi-advanced grammar?
I know a few thousand words and kanji by now and most of the grammar in Tae Kim's guide and Genki 1-2, but I get "lost" in harder or longer sentences. Mostly where there is a large mix of okurigana and adverbs resulting in one long hiragana chain after a word.
I mostly have problems with finding out where one conjugation/adverb ends and where the next one begins, or just keep mixing up similar conjugations.
I read a lot as practice, but it's hard to improve when you're not sure if you got the right translation and don't have much feedback.
Is there a better way to practice this kind of grammar?
>>496
I don't have any better way than just pounding your head against example sentences. What I did to get to the point where I could read something without needing a dictionary constantly was just to read material (mostly video games, a few light novels) and when I saw a pattern that didn't make sense, I'd google it or look it up on alc.co.jp to try and get a sense of when and where it's used, along with its meaning. After a while, you get a large enough vocabulary and a good enough sense for the rhythm of the language to where that's not explicitly necessary anymore.
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Anonymous2013-04-09 5:59
Okay, I'm kind of a complete moron. I want to start studying Japanese, and I have a vague understanding of what I'm doing, but I want some kind of structure to what I'm doing.
I understand I have to get the kana right first, then I worry about everything else. So should I just grind them out? Where exactly do I go from there?
Apologies for asking stupid questions.
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Anonymous2013-04-09 21:06
>>499
That depends. Do you have a particular goal in mind?
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Anonymous2013-04-09 23:08
>>500
I want to be able to understand Japanese, both written and verbally. Gain a basic mastery over the language. Other then that, not really.
They say "Time Destroyer" is an attack that blows away the opponent its used against to you in space time...
受けた相手 is "the person it is used on". "Time Destroyer" is an attack which sends the victim to the far reaches of space time.
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Anonymous2013-04-15 21:03
Never mind, just realized I misread your translation. Yours seems fine except for the strange "to you" bit. Not sure where you're getting that from.
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Anonymous2013-04-17 4:54
can anyone help me understand what Verbs + Agaru mean? i can`t find anything online but i keep hearing this Agaru attached to verbs in animes. Also, if you have links to share about it please do
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Anonymous2013-04-17 12:16
Anyone know any documentaries in japanese i can watch?
動詞＋あげる is one of the "giving" verbs (go look up any Japanese guide on giving/receiving objects/actions)
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Anonymous2013-04-17 14:04
>>513
yea i was looking for the meaning of Verb + あがる。 So basically, it`s like -てしまう?
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Anonymous2013-04-17 16:56
It's not productive, and you can't just stick it on to anything. It's best to just learn it in the words where it appears.
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Anonymous2013-04-18 4:25
I'm having a little trouble understanding this sentence so here's my attempt at breaking the confusing part down.
「それは、大変にいいことです。私達は、普段あまり贅沢な食事はしない主義です。……ですが、」
普段あまり
not common (あまり with negative sentence)
贅沢な食事
luxurious food
はしない
??? Not do
主義です
principle
Well, that's great. Our principle is to not [cook] uncommon and luxurious food... but
I compared this to a translation which is:
That’s great. It’s our custom to prepare unusual and luxurious dishes, but…
So I'm really confused how the translator ended up like that. Please help.
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Anonymous2013-04-18 9:39
The translator is a moron who probably edits google translate, that's how.
普段あまり贅沢な食事はしない>don't make extravagant food very often
then you tack 主義 to the end of that and it becomes a descriptive phrase, meaning it is their policy or custom to not make extravagant food. I don't usually literally translate 主義 when it's used like this, though.
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Anonymous2013-04-18 9:40
Oh and in case it wasn't clear, the は is the topic particle and しない is the negative of する.
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Anonymous2013-04-18 21:30
>>517 >>518
Thanks I appreciate it. I was getting really frustrated because I'm just assuming the translator is, well, doing a good job translating and then I use it as a way to compare if I understand what I'm reading. I guess I'll take baka-tsuki translations with a grain of salt.
I wasn't aware that some of the LN's on baka-tsuki were just google translate edits.
Also, I thought the second は was acting more as some sort of contrast marker instead of a topic particle. Thanks for clearing that up!
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Anonymous2013-04-18 23:13
Hoo boy, do NOT use baka-tsuki as a reference. Anything would be better than that. The vast majority are just google translate edits. If you can, try to find some that have official English translations, like spice and wolf.
は is frequently used with negatives to say that it only applies to that one thing. I'm not very good at explaining it, but it's quite common to use in this situation, and it doesn't change the meaning (in English) significantly compared to not being there.
I stumbled upon a random sentence on the Internet, the lyrics of a song, and I thought maybe you guys would want to crack it.
来年のことを言うと鬼が笑うって言うなら笑いたいだけ 笑わせとけばいい.
The official translation is: "They say the ogres will laugh next year, I say let'em laugh all they want".
It's probably an alright one, maybe a bit too liberal, but I'm not at a level where I can say that comfortably.
Anyways, my questions:
来年のことを言う
Why the heck does that take を? As far as I know, that would literally mean: They say "next year". Unless it's the object particle for another verb, but the only other one is 笑う. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
鬼が笑うって言
The use of って言 there would indicate that every time we use 笑う in the sentence, it takes as a subject 鬼, am I right?
笑わせとけばいい
This is just a clusterfuck of verbs and particles and I don't know what any of it means. As far as I know, 笑わせ is causative form and ばいい means it would be fine if what it was said earlier happens, but about that とけ in the middle, I just don't know.
There is nothing in this sentence about Ogres laughing next year.
来年のことを言う - talk about next year
と - if/when
鬼が笑う - demons/ogres will laugh
って言うなら - if it's said, if that's the case
笑いたいだけ - just want to laugh
笑わせとけばいい - go ahead and let them laugh
笑う－>笑わせる－>笑わせておく－>笑わせておけばいい－>笑わせとけばいい
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Anonymous2013-04-22 14:12
来年のことを言うと鬼が笑う is an set phrase meaning that when someone talks about or plans the future, devils laugh because its impossible to actually know what will happen.
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Anonymous2013-04-22 15:31
>>527 >>528
Yeah, that makes it clear. Much obliged.
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Anonymous2013-04-23 13:09
Anyone care to explain the 3 giving verbs when they paired up with the -てform? I understand て+あげる and て+くれる, but the last one is kinda hard to understand.
te+Ageru = i give / do something for others
te+Kureru = someone gives/ does something to/for me
te+Morau = ?
thanks guys.
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Anonymous2013-04-23 13:19
もらう has a different actor than くれる. くれる and あげる both mean "give" (from different perspectives) while もらう means "to receive".
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Anonymous2013-04-23 15:04
I've got something to add to the tools.
memrise com is a great, anki-like srs based online course. I've been using it for JP/ CN / EN for a few months now.
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Anonymous2013-04-24 1:22
>>531
i knew that, but when it`s used with the て form it changes meaning.
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Anonymous2013-04-24 1:44
>>533
No, it doesn't, it just changes the verb. 買ってもらう=receive the favor of buying, 買ってくれる=buy (for speaker). If you don't specify what you're confused about, you're not going to get a good answer.
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Anonymous2013-04-26 13:12
hey /lang/ quick question
A: Bさん!
B: ???
A: ふふ、呼んでみただけ
does this just mean something like "I just wanted to try calling your name for fun"?
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Anonymous2013-04-26 14:26
Something like that. Another translation would be "just messing with you" or whatever. All it means is they had no reason for actually calling them.
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Anonymous2013-04-26 15:14
can anyone help me understand what ほど means?
I know it means `to a certain extend`, but i`m missing something
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Anonymous2013-04-26 15:18
>>537
If you don't show us where you're confused, we can't do anything that a dictionary can't. Post some examples where you're confused.
I'm having trouble discerning the distinction between "時" and "間" when referring to a period of time. The way I learned it, at least the way I think I learned it was something like this...
時 - refers to any period of time, past, present or future. An accurate translation would be "when". e.g.
子供の時、父と一緒にニューヨークへ行きました。
When I was a kid, I went to New York with my dad.
シャワーを浴びる時、顔を洗います。
When I take a shower I wash my face.
間 - refers to a specific interval of time, and is not at all ambiguous. e.g.
駅員と聞いた間、彼女を見ました。
While I was talking to the station attendant, I saw her.
日本にいた間、秋葉原へ二回行きました。
While I was in Japan, I went to Akihabara twice.
What really confuses me is that in the two "間" examples, it seems like "間" could be switched for "時" and the meaning would be the same. What is the true distinction between the two words? Don't waste your time proofreading those sentences, there's surely better and more natural ways of conveying those thoughts, but that isn't the point of this post.
Thank you.
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Anonymous2013-05-02 9:09
What's the difference between "During my time in Japan" and "While I was in Japan"? They basically mean the same thing, except 間 specifically states that it was a period of time. You're overthinking this.
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Anonymous2013-05-02 9:14
>>540
Essentially the difference between "when" and "while". Though it is obviously possible to replace one with the other in a way that avoids a blatant change in meaning, that doesn't necessarily mean they're the same.
"While I was in Japan / When I was in Japan"
The difference can be chalked up to repeated actions and actions that only took place during a particular period. If you actually read the discription of either (時 - refers to any period of time, past, present or futur) (間 - refers to a specific interval of time, and is not at all ambiguous. e.g.), you would already know that. Reading comprehension dude.
シャワーを浴びる間、顔を洗います
While I shower (particular), I washy my face (general)
Kind of weird that you're saying you wash you face, but only in that particular time in space.
駅員と聞いた間, 彼女を見ました。
While I was asking the station attendant (particular), I saw her (past, particular)
No weird at all to be doing something specific, limited to a finite period of time and occurrences, and then have a particular something happen once.
There's nothing weird about the washing the face sentence, and I honestly have no idea what you're going on about this "particular time in space" bullshit. It sounds like you think ～間、～します implies you only do the second action while you're doing the first, which isn't true.
The second works fine if you change it to something that actually makes sense like 駅員の話を聞いてる間.
Those descriptions are ones that I came up with, not ones I got from a dictionary or a book. The when/while comparison is what I normally rely on, but I just want a more concise comparison of the two expressions.
The problem that I run into is for something like
母の誕生日の間に母の一番好きな食べ物を作った。
In all regards, this sentence should make sense, right? But when I presented this to a teacher as an example application of the grammar, I was told it's wrong.
We might say "on" or "during" someone's birthday but Japanese (and most languages) don't work that way.
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Anonymous2013-05-02 14:28
I'm just trying to get a handle on when and when not to use 間 is all.
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Anonymous2013-05-02 14:37
Earlier in the thread, people were talking about ～よりいい and I'm a little bit confused on how that should be pronounced. Is saying it like ～よりー alright, or should I say something more like ～よりっいい? Which would sound more natural to a native speaker?
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Anonymous2013-05-03 12:13
>Is saying it like ～よりー alright,
Absolutely not.
>よりっいい
This is an extreme form of annunciation, where you practically alienate the two but it's closer to a natural pronunciation.
Japanese have the tendency in this situation to put more stress the on the いい, easily differentiating for the listener.
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Anonymous2013-05-04 13:10
What's going on here? Are the people who actually know Japanese too busy jerking it to lolicon doujinshi to post ITT? 時/間 is entry-level grammar.
>>540
Have some definitions from the dictionary of jap grammar book series:
間(に)
"the space between two temporal or physical points"
during (the time when); while
時
"a dependent noun which indicates the time when s.o./s.t. will do/does/did s.t. or the time when s.o./s.t. will be/is/was in some state"
at the time when; when
Your interpretation of the grammar is correct, and you could use 時 in the last two sentences without that making them grammatically incorrect, but 間 when used like this has stricter temporal implications. This does make the sentences grammatically incorrect the way you composed them.
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Anonymous2013-05-04 13:10
>>540
You didn't want "proofreading", but I will disregard that because it annoys me. "駅員と聞いた間" does not mean "while I was talking to the station attendant", it means "when I heard 'station attendant'". 駅員と話していた間 is what you were trying to type. Unlike what >>543 wrote, "～間、〇〇する" does in fact mean that the action takes place while whatever is in front of 間 is going on, and for the whole duration.
間に is what you should've used in both your sentences, unless you meant that you were watching "her" for the whole time you were talking with the station attendant (in which case the second sentence should've been 見ていた). The second sentence doesn't even make sense unless you were trying to say that for the whole period when you were in Japan you were doing nothing but going to Akihabara twice, which is physically impossible.
駅員と話していた間に、彼女を見かけました。
日本にいた間に、秋葉原へ二回行きました。
>>542
>シャワーを浴びる間、顔を洗います
>While I shower (particular), I washy my face (general)
No. It's close, but "when I shower, I wash my face the whole time" would be closer to the what's implied.
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Anonymous2013-05-06 18:16
>>551
>"駅員と聞いた間" does not mean "while I was talking to the station attendant", it means "when I heard 'station attendant'". 駅員と話していた間 is what you were trying to type.
But 聞く also means "to ask", doesn't it? Why it doesn't work like that in this case?
>543 here, by "only do action 2 while doing action 1", I meant that action 2 is never done at other times, not that action 2 is done the whole time you're doing action 1. I agree with you. This is all getting really confusing to explain.
駅員に聞きながら、
While I ask the station attendant,
Or "While I asked the station attendant,"
Depends on the tense of the verb you use at the end of the sentence.
Anon, could you please upload "An Introduction to Modern Japanese: Volume 2" for me? I've went through the whole internet and it's impossible to find it.
How would you say "Kanji makes me want to kill myself" in Japanese?
”漢字で自殺させられたい” would be my guess, but I don't know if you can use causative-passive + tai form just like that.
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Anonymous2013-05-14 11:10
>>565
That would read "I want someone to let me kill myself with Kanji". Which you have every right to do and should be doing it.
漢字を見て/読んで/勉強して/ると自殺したい気分になる。
is among some ways you could go about it.
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Anonymous2013-05-14 14:08
>>565 >>566
Also no I don't think you can use causative-passive with tai. only 欲しいand the like.
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Anonymous2013-05-15 9:50
Could anyone help me with this sentence? I can't make heads or tails out of it.
>>569
It makes absolute sense. Loosely translated:
In July 1960, a sea of protest swirled around the Japanese Diet in regards to Prime Minister Kishi's turn toward the revisions of the Japanese Americana Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security.
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Anonymous2013-05-15 11:19
To spell it out for you:
日米安保条約 = Japan-U.S. Security Treaty
改定 = revision, amendment, etc.
に走る = literally to run towards
に対し = regarding, for, of
国会国会周辺 = the environs of the Japanese National Diet
抗議 = protest
嵐 = storm, tempest
渦巻 = whirl, swirl, etc.
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Anonymous2013-05-17 17:28
Hi /lang/, newfag here... someone want translate a manga? Well, I doubt it. At any rate, here I post the download link, if anyone can translate it and make a script, I'd appreciate.
This isn't really the right place to ask for that kind of thing. If you were translating, and you were stuck on a specific piece of grammar and need help, asking about it would be fine. But you shouldn't really come around asking for someone to completely translate something for you.
any bro's here that have had a JP working holiday visa?
Im looking for clarification on what jobs are categorized under;
>The Working Holiday participants can engage in any kind of job as long as their stay is deemed to be primarily a holiday in Japan.
>They may not, however, work in places where business is being regulated by the Law on Control and Improvement of Amusement and Entertainment Business...
like, I think night clubs come under this, but does that include working the bar or kitchen, or is this for like go go girls?
>>575
Haven't gone on a working holiday visa, but from my understanding you couldn't legally be hired by a bar/club no matter what specific kind of work they'd have you doing there. The rules are strict because this would be a total mess for the govt to regulate without putting buttloads of resources into running unannounced checkups all over the country.
This is pretty much my understanding of it. Not exactly sound legal advice, but I watched a drama once where the character was a foreigner who was working at a bar as a dishwasher or something, and she got in trouble and faced deportation.
So, if you don't mind my asking, how is Namasensei's Japanese Lessons as a means of learning? I've got a summer free, and since I'm currently finding job hunting hard with my current skillset, I figured I might as well turn my hand to a language.
Any other methods for learning to speak the language would be great also. Also, do I need to be able to read to speak it?
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Anonymous2013-05-25 12:39
>>584
Also I get that I'm not going to be anywhere near fluent over just a summer's learning, but it's getting into the habit of learning, and not letting my brain die off, since I'm hopefully starting a Masters degree in September.
There's nothing colloquial about it; it's simply a different language.
友達が出来る literally translates as "to be able to do a friend" but is equivalent to our "able to make a friend". The validity of the OP's use of "find" in the same sense can be debated but the gist is more or less the same.
>>603
I'll try explain to my thinking.
I can little use English, so please take look with a grain of salt.
For example,
Situation: Now you are look him.
A: case of そうな+Noun
彼は眠そうな顔をしている。
He has a sleepy face. (by Google translate)
In this case, you explain his situation which based on your impression.
At first, You look his face, and you think that, he is sleepy.
Then you say his situation, so 彼は眠そうな顔をしている。
B: case of そうに+Verb
彼の顔は眠そうにしている。
His face looking sleepy.(by Google translate)
In this case, you explain your impression which based on his situaton.
At first, you look his face, and you think that, he is sleepy.
Then you say your thinking, so 彼の顔は眠そうにしている。
thanks.
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Anonymous2013-05-31 17:56
>>597
I'll try to explain, but I can little use English,
please read with a grain of salt.
For example,
My perception,
1) case of なる+ように = なれるように:
教師になれるように勉強しています。
Heis studying to become a teacher. (by Google translate)
I think that, he wants to be a teacher at the establishment of more than 98%.
2) case of なる+ために = なるために
教師になるために勉強しています。
He is studying to become a teacher. (by Google translate)
I think that, he wants to be a teacher at the establishment of 100%.
3) case of だけ+なる+ために = なるためだけに
教師だけになる為に勉強しています。(for translate sentence)
(correct is 教師なるためだけに勉強しています。)
He is studying to become a teacher only. (by Google translate)
I think that, he wants to be a teacher at the establishment of 1000%.
Ok thanks you guys, i understood now, basically they mean the same thing but with a different nuance. This is something that only native japanese can understand, and for non-native speakers it`s quite hard to tell the difference. thanks again
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Anonymous2013-06-01 11:03
>>607
I will try to make additions and corrections to >>606.
correction:
(correct is 教師なるためだけに勉強しています。) is bad
(correct is 教師になるためだけに勉強しています。) is good.
addition:
maybe I'll write same as >>598, sorry.
I could not understand the difference of nuance text below have in my English.
>>Tame ni = for the purpose of, because of '
>>You ni = so that, in order to
I'll write use my English.
In >>606,
1) case of なる+ように = なれるように:
His priority is:
1: Up to grade.
2: To became a teacher. By grades went up.
2) case of なる+ために = なるために
His priority is:
1: To became a teacher.
2: Up to grade. But it doesn't matter.
3) case of だけ+なる+ために = なるためだけに
His priority is:
1: To became a teacher.
2: nothing!
>>611
Don't worry about it. >>607 is an idiot who refuses to take even a few seconds to consider how the grammar is applied despite getting every nuance explained and served on a silver platter, instead opting to excuse away their stupidity with Orientalist mystification. スレに貢献してくれてありがとうございます
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Anonymous2013-06-02 9:07
こいつの名前は「朝香久美子」。
一年の時からの腐れ縁だ。
does 腐れ縁だ refer to her relationship with the school (being in school, having to attend ect)
or me(being spoken about by the narrative) or another person at school?
it interprets as; this is asaka, first year, is at school but dosent want to be?
腐れ縁 だ is negative, bad, unwanted as such?
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Anonymous2013-06-02 9:10
>>616
or that I previously had a poor relation with her in first year?
some modify to Japanese is
彼女の名前は「朝香久美子」。
The She's name is "AsaKa Kumiko".
私と彼女は私達が一年生だった時からの腐れ縁だ。
She and I'm a inseparable relationship from when we were first grade.
in my dictionary:
こいつ: Guys , in this case she.
腐れ縁 : in undesirable but inseparable.
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611 2013-06-02 10:03
>>618
腐れ縁 : in undesirable but inseparable relation.
sorry.
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Anonymous2013-06-02 10:12
>>616
Literally meaning a rotted or rotten fateful connection, 腐れ縁 "usually" has a slightly negative connotation but, interestingly, it's one of the select few words in Japanese that has an inborn irony. Kind of like saying "Oh man, I just can't get this guy off my back" even though he might be lovable but a little trying.
Ironical usage obviously depends on circumstance, but it's possible Kumiko isn't as undesirable as the speaker seems to intimate.
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6112013-06-02 12:04
>>615
Thank you for your post.
I seem misleading to you.
I thought when I saw >>607>>609>>610's post:
1) I thought >>607 was convinced in my opinion.
2) I thought >>609 and >>610 ware not convinced by my opinion,
and they commented to >>607.
Then, I thought idea of 2) if correct, >>607 would surely suffer.
So, I posted >>611.
Because there is no English my power, it seems to mislead everyone.
To >>607,>>609,>>610,>>615, I am sorry.
I hope everyone in this board to enjoy learning Japanese, thanks.
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Anonymous2013-06-02 15:07
>>618 >>620
thanks for the clarification. I assume 一年 is first year of high school? or primary kids school?
how does the JP school years work?
yeah, she goes on to say;
こいつとは口喧嘩が絶えない。
それさえ無ければ良い奴なんだけど
so it makes a bit more sense now i guess, she wants to fuck
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Anonymous2013-06-02 18:10
>>622
>how does the JP school years work?
in Japan,
first grade of high/junior-high/primary-kids school called same "１年生".
Now if he is high school student, it means "since first grade of high school".
>>こいつとは口喧嘩が絶えない。
>>それさえ無ければ良い奴なんだけど
meaning simply Japanese is,
私はいつも彼女と口げんかをしている。
それがなければ、彼女は良い人なのだが。
I have a quarrel with her always.
Without it, she is a person's good.
I don't know that she want to f*ck. :-)
However, he seems to be like her.
In many cases using the "腐れ縁"
case 1) She is best friends with him.
case 2) She is a good rival with him.
for example,
A and B is a good friends. A like B.
A introduce B to C.
A think,
"I like B, but I don't want to say, because I am shy."
so A say to C, "B and I is 腐れ縁".
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Anonymous2013-06-02 18:24
>>623
correct:
In many cases of using "腐れ縁"
case 1) She is best friends for a long time with him.
case 2) She is a good rival for a long time with him.
>お母さんは太郎を荷物に行かせました。 is incorrect sentence.
maybe 荷物 or 行かせました is incorrect.
if 荷物 is correct, correct sentence looks like お母さんは太郎を荷物に持たせました。(My mother gave luggage Taro. by google)
if 行かせました is correct, sentence looks like お母さんは太郎を買物に行かせました。(My mother sent him to buy Taro. by google)
Now that some anon mentioned the causative form, something came in my mind.
Is it gramatically correct to have a Causative verb + てくれる？
Example： 石田に新聞を持たせてくれました。
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Anonymous2013-06-05 3:41
Actually, I too have a question about causative form, especially in regards to mixing causative and passive. Is this correct?
手伝う:To help
手伝われる:To be helped
手伝わせる:To allow to help
手伝わせられる:To be allowed to help
手伝われさせる:To allow to be helped
手伝われさせられる:To be allowed to be helped
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Anonymous2013-06-05 4:20
>>631
Yes, causative plus くれる/もらう is normal and commonly used. However, your sentence doesn't really make sense. 石田 is the one doing the action, so you can't use くれる.
Some examples of させてくれる/させてもらう:
彼はおいしいご飯を食べさせてくれた。
He fed me (let me eat) tasty food.
「しいたけ」のおいしさを改めて感じさせてくれるお弁当である。
It makes you realize how good shiitake is.
これから後は見学させてもらうことにしよう。
I believe I'll sit in for the rest of this.
その会議に出るのは遠慮させてもらった。
I excused myself from attending the meeting.
させてもらう/させていただく in particular is a very common construction. It functionally means the same as する (in terms of who is doing what) but it has very different connotations about how something happens.
>>632
Your list is sort of correct, but some of them are a bit off. The passive can have a bit of a negative connotation and generally isn't used for actions like "to be helped". In that situation you would say xが手伝ってくれた or xに手伝ってもらった.
Also remember that the causative frequently means "to force someone", especially for something like helping. 手伝わせる, in most contexts, would mean "to make someone help", not "to allow to help" (again, pending context)
These two facts come together when dealing with causative passive, and it almost universally means "To be forced to do something". 手伝わせられる is the only combination possible, the other two make no sense.
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Anonymous2013-06-05 4:49
Ah, thanks for your help 633, causative + passive is the only applicable combination of the two.
Would
僕に手伝わせられて嬉しいです。
be a good and polite way to request that someone let you help them?
No, like I said, passive implies it was forced. You would say 手伝わせてくださってありがとうございました or something.
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Anonymous2013-06-05 8:04
Wait, I just realized you were asking how to request someone to let you help. Not sure why you'd use うれしい there, but in any case that's pretty simple: 手伝わせてください or (more naturally/politely) お手伝いしましょうか.
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Anonymous2013-06-05 13:57
Sorry, this is too long, and I'll try to explain use my Engrish.
>>632
For example,
(situation1)
Now Taro(太郎) and Jiro(次郎) is here. Taro want help. Taro find Jiro, Taro say to Jiro, "Help me" then.
1) plain 手伝う:
次郎は太郎を手伝った。 Jiro helped Taro.
2) passive 手伝われる:
太郎は次郎に手伝われた。 Taro was helped by Jiro.
3) causative 手伝わせる:
太郎は次郎に(太郎を）手伝わせた。 Taro had Jiro help Taro/Taro got Jiro to help Taro./Taro made Jiro help Taro.
(situation2)
Now Taro(太郎), Jiro(次郎), Saburo(三郎) is here. Saburo is their Boss. Taro want help. Jiro and Saburo find Taro, Taro say to them, "Help me" then.
4) causative(手伝われさせる)手伝わせる:
三郎は次郎に太郎を手伝わせた。 Saburo got Jiro help Taro./ .Saburo made Jiro help Taro.
5) passive(手伝わせられる)手伝わされる:
次郎は三郎に太郎を手伝わされた。 Jiro was made to help Taro by Saburo./Jiro was got to help Taro by Saburo.
6) 手伝われさせられる: maybe none.
手伝う change to these,
手伝う = Plain Verbs. Use to case of 1)
手伝う + させる(Causative) = 手伝わせる is Causative Verbs(使役動詞) Use to case of 3) and 4).
手伝う + られる(Passive) = 手伝われる is Passive Verbs(受身動詞). Use to case of 2)
手伝わせる(Causative Verbs) + られる(Passive) = 手伝わされる is Passive Verbs(受身動詞). Use to case of 5)
手伝わせる(Causative Verbs) + させる(Causative) = not exist. Verbs change Causative to Causative is meaningless.
手伝われる(Passive Verbs) + られる(Passive) = not exist. Verbs change Causative to Causative is meaningless.Maybe case of 6) is this.
手伝われる(Passive Verbs) + させる(Causative) = not exist. Can not change Passive to Causative.
about >>631s example, for example that,
case 7) please image, You and Ishida is here. In this morning, Ishida gave you a newspaper, and you receive it, and you think "Thanks to Ishida".
Then after, You talk to other people about Ishida, So you say,
石田が新聞を持たせてくれました。( Ishida gave me a newspaper.)
case 8) please image, You, Ishida and Tanaka is here. You love Ishida. In this mornig, Tanaka gave Ishida a news paper, and Ishida receive it.
You look them and you think "It is glad like me.". Then after, You talk to other people about Ishida. So you say,
田中が石田に新聞を持たせてくれました。( Tanaka gave Ishida a newspaper)
Verbs + くれる has include slight feeling, "Thank you for me. you do something". But only くれる means "give".
sorry, I don't know grammatical word in English, anyone tell me.
thanks.
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Anonymous2013-06-05 14:05
>持たせる(Causative Verbs) + くれる(Causative) = 持たせてくれる is Passive Verbs(受身動詞).
くれる(Passive) is correct.
It's got nothing to do with your English, but in general when explaining something, it's best to keep examples simple and natural rather than explaining every single possibility.
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Anonymous2013-06-05 18:20
>>634
手伝う is Plain Verbs.
手伝う + くれる = 手伝ってくれる is Passive Verbs. This means "Thank you for me, You helped me."
For example,
Taro(太郎) and Jiro(次郎) is here. Jiro helped Taro. then,
1) If Taro think "I am glad, because Taro helped me", Taro say, (私を)手伝ってくれてありがとう。or more deferential:(私を)手伝って下さってありがとうございます。
meaning is "Thank you for your help."
2) If Jiro think "I am very grad, because I could help Taro", Jiro say (あなたを)手伝わせてくれてありがとう。 or more deferential:(あなたを)手伝わせてくださってありがとうございました。
3) If Taro say "thank you", and then Jiro think "You are welcome.", Jiro say どういたしまして。
>>636
For example, situation is as same as above. If Jiro want to help Taro, Jiro say (私に)手伝わせてください or "(私が)お手伝いしましょうか?"
>>639
Thank you for your advice. Could you read >>637 ?
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Anonymous2013-06-05 18:22
>>640
>1) If Taro think "I am glad, because Taro helped me",
"I am glad, because Jiro helped me" is correct.
>>639
I don't see what's wrong with giving a thorough explanation. Especially here when the person asking the question wanted to know all the use cases of causative and passive you can't really make it short without dumbing down everything.
>>644
It's a problem when half the stuff in the post isn't hardly used and would need an extremely specific situation to be relevant. The guy who asked originally is obviously a complete beginner and can barely form the causative passive. A thorough explanation can (counter-intuitively) often do more harm than good, because the new learner isn't able to tell what's relevant and what isn't.
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Anonymous2013-06-07 1:38
Where can i find raw japanese books to read? So far i only know aozora website, any other usefull websites?
Taken from a comment on youtube, i have problems understanding it:
I don`t agree but, can`t be helped. China is more popular and has a longer story in europe than Japan.
時期の方が欧米では長かった訳だし is what i don`t understand.
is this correct?
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Anonymous2013-06-07 10:38
>>649
This isn't a literal translation, but meaning is this.
>日本より中国の方が知名度が高い時期の方が欧米では長かった訳だし。
Because that, for a long time, China was popular than Japan among Euro and USA.
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Anonymous2013-06-07 11:42
what is that talking software that all neets have on there computer?
its like a talking vocaloid girl voice ???
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Anonymous2013-06-07 12:41
>>650
Thanks anon, so 訳です means: because / reason?
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Anonymous2013-06-07 14:04
>>652
訳です literal translation is "is reason".
In this case, [日本より中国の方が知名度が高い時期の方が欧米では長かった] is reason. but I couldn't translate and use "because".
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Anonymous2013-06-07 14:15
>>650 correct.
欧米 literally meaning Europe and USA. but "Western countries" is better. I think.
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Mastah of Kendo2013-06-07 16:13
Can someone tells us what do these symbols mean in English.
They're from my friend's shinai bag.
>>655
These are not normal sentence. Kanji. maybe phrase of "漢語"(a Japanese old word of Chinese origin). I seem these symbols is "精", "気", "神". these Kanji has meaning each,
"精" has meaning, "grind to something"
"気" has meaning, "spirit"
"神" has literal meaning, "god" this case's mean "like god".
We imagine from these word, "grind the spirit like god", this turned to "Improve the quality of your spirit, all day and every day".
This thinking is much to kendo or other budo's spirit. But, If first symbol is not 精, my explanation is meaningless. =)
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Anonymous2013-06-13 2:01
Guys, i have to prepare a presentation of myself to the teacher, how old i am, where i live etc..I have to use 敬語 to introduce myself to the teacher, but i have some problem choosing which form to use.
Which is used, in the case of me presenting to someone of higher status, 尊敬語, 謙譲語 or 丁寧語?
Thanks guys
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Anonymous2013-06-13 2:14
All of them. You use 謙譲語 when talking about yourself (ex: 田中と申します, "my name is Tanaka"), 尊敬語 if you need to refer to the teacher (ex: ご清聴ありがとうございました, "thank you for listening") and 丁寧語 all the time (ます, です)
I don't know what level you're at, but generally in an introduction to the teacher you'll just use regular polite forms. こんにちはたなかって言います,etc. If the teacher expects you to use formal keigo in the introduction, I assume you've been given some sort of guidelines for what to use?
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Anonymous2013-06-13 4:36
>>658
If you will talk about myself, should use 謙譲語.
If you will talk about teacher's behavior, should use 尊敬語.
without both, should use 丁寧語.
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Anonymous2013-06-13 5:39
>>660
All right, that cleared it up :) You made me happy thanks anon
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Anonymous2013-06-13 5:41
>>659
No it only asks me to make an introduction about myself using 謙譲語. No guidelines or anything
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Anonymous2013-06-14 3:49
What's a good Android dictionary app?
I had an iphone and was using Japanese, but now I changed phones so I no longer have access to that.
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Anonymous2013-06-18 10:26
Hey guys, still having problems with the 敬語 forms..
Which type of keigo should i use if i`m interviewing someone in the streets? Humble form?
If i`m talking to a friend can i use plain form?
What if i`m someone working in a reception in a hotel? 謙譲語 is used?
thanks guys
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Anonymous2013-06-18 14:03
A lot of that is going to depend on what kind of person you are and how close you are to the other person. If you're working in retail or customer service, you'll speak politely and humble yourself, but most people don't go too crazy over this, depending on the industry. Things like させて頂きます are used frequently and お+v+します is also common.
What exactly are you worried about this for? Is there a test or something? If you're just generally trying to educate yourself, the best way to get experience with these things is to expose yourself to more Japanese (e.g., watching a TV series or reading a manga, etc) rather than stressing out over every little detail.
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Anonymous2013-06-18 14:12
>>665
yea, it`s a the last exam in my university, and those questions are about the possible roleplay conversations that the teachers are going to ask me. The thing is, i understood the basics of the 3 敬語s, but the specific situations are complicated.
Like the interview, should i humble myself, or shw respec to the dude in the street using 尊敬語 or treat him like an equip with
masu form?
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Anonymous2013-06-18 18:08
Would someone mind double checking a translation for me?
小ぶりと言っても、さすがに昔と違って女の子らしい柔らかさで
I roughly worked this out to be ''Unlike the olden days, she spoke in a small voice with a girlish tenderness.''
I dont think it matters, but here is the context of what she said.
美來「だったら、この手お兄ちゃんの本心？」
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Anonymous2013-06-18 18:44
>>667
I can't literal translation. but,I can explain this sentence, maybe =).
>小ぶりと言っても、さすがに昔と違って女の子らしい柔らかさで
She has small body, but she is different from what it was.
She was soft chubby child. but now she has soft girlish voluptuous body.
>美來「だったら、この手 "" お兄ちゃんの本心 "" ？」
I can't read ""word, in my PC.
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Anonymous2013-06-18 19:10
>>664
I think,
in interview:
if you will talk about myself -> Plain form(no necessary use 謙譲語)
if you wil talk about someone(for interview)'s behavior ->Respect form(尊敬語)
working in a reception in a hotel:
if you will talk about myself -> Humble form(謙譲語)
if you will talk about visitor's behavior ->Respect form(尊敬語)
If you are hotel-keeper, you must to respect to visitor.
Ok, let's get some things straight, ます form is always going to be used in any kind of situation where you want to be polite. That is a system outside of humble/respectful forms. You can use humble/respectful forms without using ます, but I can almost guarantee that isn't what your professors are hunting for.
If it's for a test, you're probably best off just proving that you know the forms and using things like ております or お+v+します when talking about yourself and ていらっしゃいます or お+v+になります when talking about the interviewer. Surely your teacher has at least shown you some example conversations, or something? If they just say "hey, these are the forms, go do an interview", you have a rather poorly taught class indeed.
>>667
That text is broken for me as well. 昔 doesn't have to mean "olden days", and it's often used just to mean "back then" or "before" (possibly even only a few years in some situations).
the broken text is just '...' it must have messed up when i pasted it from my text grabber.
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Anonymous2013-06-18 20:02
>>671
One line isn't really "context", either. You should post who these characters are, what relationship they have, etc. Two lines don't give us any idea of what's happening at all. For all I know, they could be sitting on a park bench or standing on the bow of a ship.
The first line i posted is the older brothers inner monologue (MC in a visual novel), the second line i posted is his younger sister, Mirai.
The older brother has just been woken up from a dream he has having of his sister when she was younger. She says she was worried about him, thought he was having a nightmare.
Here is most of that scene, leading up to that line.
Right, see, that line 美來の小ぶりな胸を、下から撫で上げるようにつかんでいる僕の手を is important because the line you posted references that same 小ぶりな胸. He's saying her breasts are small, but now they are soft and womanly unlike before (when she was a child). He's noting how his sister has tits now.
Hey thanks for taking your time to answer, well..the roleply model are basically some guidelines, nothing more nothing less, like:
Hotel receptionist;
1- Ask for a vacancy from 20 august to 22 august for 2 adults and 3 kids
a- Do some research and tell the client that there is a room with sea view (how do i say that lol?)
2- How much is a room per night, Is breakfast included?
b-Tell him the price of the room and that the breakfast is included
>>675
If you want a general guide on how to say something, alc.co.jp is a good resource. For example, searching "sea view" nets (among other things) this example:
seat with a good view of the stage
舞台［ステージ］がよく見える席
and this is a common way of saying you can see something. Room with a sea view would be 海が見える部屋.
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Anonymous2013-06-19 4:17
>>676
oh god how dumb i am ahaa, this heat + the keigos are really making me dumb, such a simple sentence i forgot! thanks anon
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Anonymous2013-06-19 10:05
how would you say: I can watch movies on my cellphone.
>>680
in hotel, トリプルルーム or 三人部屋(San-nin-beya)
4 or more same, 四人部屋、五人部屋....
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Anonymous2013-06-19 11:26
Guys, if i want to ask A what would she/he make do to B, what should i use, kureru or ageru?
Aさん、 Bに何をさせてくれますか。
Aさん、 Bに何をさせてあげますか。
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Anonymous2013-06-19 11:30
>>684
te-ageru because it is you the subject of the sentence?
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Anonymous2013-06-19 11:33
>>684
Basically, both use OK. I recommend to use あげる.
reason is...please wait a minute.
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Anonymous2013-06-19 11:44
>>684
Sorry, I can't good translate, and I use Japanese for explain.
If you can't understand my explain, please ask me again.
"くれる"を使う場合、自分に関係する事に使う場合が多いです。
ex. 自分の部下(your stuff) or 自分の子供や家族(your family etc.)
もし、Ｂさんが自分の部下である場合は、"くれる"を使う方が自然です。
それ以外の場合は"あげる"の方が自然です。
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Anonymous2013-06-19 11:59
>>684 >>687 translated by my Engrish. =)
most case of "くれる" is used about myself or my-something.
if PersonB is your subordinate or your family, "くれる" is naturally.
without above, "あげる" is naturally.
So, if i see 2 people outside of myself or my-something, people i don`t know, i use Ageru.
If they are people i know / i`m close with, kureru.
Awesome! thanks
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Anonymous2013-06-19 16:59
Does this sound good?
Can you please change the day of the appointment?
申し訳ありませんが予定の日を変わってもよろしいですか
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Anonymous2013-06-19 17:28
>>691
(appointment: between you[or your-side] and someone)
If you will change someone's appointment by yourself(or your-side),
申し訳ありませんが予定の日を変えてもよろしいですか。
(appointment: between someone and 3rdperson[or his side])
if someone's appointment will be changed by 3rd person, and you
tell to someone,
申し訳ありませんが予定の日が変わってもよろしいですか。
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Anonymous2013-06-19 20:56
As an extra one, if you want to say "please change my appointment", it would be
予定の日を変えていただけませんか. Not strictly necessary (as a customer) to use いただく instead of もらう, but maybe good if you're doing a keigo test.
Thanks! I didn`t know that, you can use transitive/intransitive verbs depending on the outside-inside group to ask for things. Never read about it before
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Anonymous2013-06-20 14:04
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Transitive/intransitive can be used without regard to もらう/くれる/etc. It only matters who is performing the action.
So yea guys, i wrote this because it`s what i`m going to talk about during my last oral exam of japanese. I know it`s full of errors and that`s why i`m posting here hoping to get some help from you geniuses. I`m basically talking about Downtown, where and when they were born, the shows that they created and their most famous programs. The last part, regarding batsu games, i don`t know how to say: There are many traps that will make them laugh(maybe 彼らを笑うのにいろいろ罠が残っておきます?）
Other than that, its pretty much done. What do you think? Don`t kill me ahah
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Anonymous2013-06-20 19:13
>>696
>There are many traps that will make them laugh
>(maybe 彼らを笑うのにいろいろ罠が残っておきます?
if literally translate,
彼らを笑わせようとするいろいろな罠があります。
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6972013-06-20 21:55
Altogether, I thought this is natural sentence. If I would speak naturally,
>ダウンタウンは1982年で形成されて -> ダウンタウンは1982年に結成されて(ダウンタウン was formed at 1982,)
>松本 人志は1963/9月/8日尼崎市に生まれまして、松ちゃんと呼ばれます。
松本 人志は1963年9月8日尼崎市に生まれて、松ちゃんと呼ばれています。(松本 is called 松っちゃん by people)
>松本さんは映画も三つありました。-> 松本さんは映画を3本撮りました(He shot three movies)
>ダウンタウンのガキの使いやあらへんでとは五人に提出させます。「他の芸人はココリコの田中 直樹と遠藤 章造」で一人ぼっちの山崎 邦正です。
ダウンタウンのガキの使いやあらへんでには五人が出演します。(Five people appear on ガキの使いやあらへんで)
他の芸人はココリコの田中直樹と遠藤章造であと一人は(the other one is)山崎邦正です。
>日本だけではなくて世界も、-> 日本だけでなく世界でも(not only Japan but also world)
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Anonymous2013-06-21 1:35
>>698
ahh yea i see where my mistakes now, i should have read it one more time, but hey, it was too late and i was sleepy ahah. Some particle errors that i could have avoided. Overall not bad i guess. Many thanks to anon! I need more practice in writing!!!!!
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Anonymous2013-06-21 1:39
>>697
Can i not use the causative in this sentence? 彼らを笑わせるようにいろいろな罠があります。
I`ve never seen causative + volitional +とする
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6972013-06-21 3:53
>>700
maybe, my translattion is bad, I did not understand "will" correctly.
>There are many traps that will make them laugh
彼らを笑わせるいろいろな罠があります。
I have a question, if above sentence do not have "will",
"There are many traps that make them laugh" This sentence is grammatical correct?
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Anonymous2013-06-21 3:57
>>701
yes it is gramatically correct, but i`m talking about something that will happen in the future, that`s why i used WILL.
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Anonymous2013-06-21 4:11
Thank you. I understand. Japanese is very vague, so I translated will, "ようとする". I must to more study English. =)
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6972013-06-21 5:53
>>702
Incidentally, 山崎邦正 changed his stage-name. now his name is 月亭邦正（つきていほうせい). he is trying 落語.
I expect good result of your examination.
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Anonymous2013-06-21 8:01
>>704
Thanks anon, i got the info from wikipedia, i will add your info and When i have done the exam i will let you all Know!
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Anonymous2013-06-21 15:53
>>704
is this sencente correct referring to >>698
で一人ぼっちのもと山崎 邦正で今月亭邦正です
..and the lonely former yamasaki housei, now tsukitei housei.
I don`t know how else to put it with the knowledge i have so far.
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Anonymous2013-06-21 16:38
>>706
あと一人はピン芸人の山崎邦正で、今は月亭邦正に名前を変えました。
the other one is the lonely former Yamazaki housei, and now he changed his name Tsukitei housei.
the lonely former = ピン芸人
I think, add to part of sentence "his name was changed" is better.
If you explain only "now tsukitei housei.", perhaps listener will think "person was changed?".
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Anonymous2013-06-21 17:11
>>707
ah god, i could have thought about it a little more. such a stupid mistake. thanks anon!
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Anonymous2013-06-21 17:34
Please forgive me if i keep bothering you guys, but i`m not at an high level of japanese, and this is the first time actually writing something this complex, at least for me, after 3 years of university.
Manza to downtown is not the typical/normal manzai, they created a new type of manzai. Typical manzai is that (comidians) look at the audience while having conversation, as if they were real but the manzai they created, they don`t look at the audience at all while talking, like they were the only 2 there.
Apologize for bothering you all
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Anonymous2013-06-21 19:14
>>709
sorry, I could not check this thread in few hours.
ダウンタウンの漫才は普通の漫才ではない新しい漫才を作りました。
(1)典型的な漫才は観客を見ながら現実のように会話をしますが、彼らの作った漫才は
（彼らは）喋っている全ての間、まるで二人だけが居るかのように(して）観客を見ません。
or
(2)典型的な漫才は観客を見ながら会話をしますが、彼らの作った現実のような漫才は
（彼らは）喋っている全ての間、まるで二人だけが居るかのように(して）観客を見ません。
My Engrish could not read correctly that, "as if they were real" is witch point to "(comidians) look at the audience while having conversation" or "the manzai they created". if that point to "(comidians)...", translation is(1), other is (2).
>Apologize for bothering you all
I do not mind. This thread is also my learning English thread.
I think it`s somewhat a way of saying something with bad feelings. I may be wrong, english is not my mother language forgive me.
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Anonymous2013-06-22 4:02
>>711
Thanks. as if = just like. I understand.
and sorry. I posted >>710's English is very bad.(now I read again my post, and I couldn't understand my post's mean). so, I would like to ask you,
>as if they were real but the manzai they created,
as if "they" were real <- this they is "Typical manzai"? or "the manzai they(downtown) created" ?
Note that >>709 should really have a comma between "real" and "but" to make it more readable:
Typical manzai is that (comidians) look at the audience while having conversation, as if they were real, but the manzai they created, they don`t look at the audience at all while talking, like they were the only 2 there.
"They" here refers to the audience, but honestly, it's a kind of sloppy English sentence. Obviously, the audience they are talking to is actually real when it is being performed. I'm not entirely sure what >>709 means when he says "real". Maybe he is referring to recorded manzai?
>>713
Yea sorry, by real i meant that the audience is alive, present, part of the conversation. sorry yea, bad sentence on my part.
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7122013-06-22 4:39
>>713
Thank you. They = audience, and real = live at theater(maybe).
and if we want to know "real"'s mean, we must to wait for >>709's reply.
Thanks your follow.
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7122013-06-22 4:41
>>714 >>715
I forgot refresh thread. I understand and try translate.
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7122013-06-22 5:34
>>713 >>715
I modified a little,
Manzai to downtown is not the typical/normal manzai, they created a new type of manzai.
ダウンタウンの漫才は典型的な漫才ではない新しい形[or新しいタイプ]の漫才を作りました。
Typical manzai is that (comidians) look at the audience while having conversation, as if they were real.
(literal)典型的な漫才は会話しながら観客を見ます、観客が居るかの様に。->典型的な漫才は観客が居るかの様に観客[or観客の方]を見ながら会話します。
but the manzai they created,
しかし彼らの作った漫才は、
they don`t look at the audience at all while talking, like they were the only 2 there.
（彼らは）喋っている間中観客を見ず、まるで二人だけのようです。
I think "look at" -> "look toward" is natural, for Japanese translation.
If "look at the audience" literal translate "観客を見る", in this case, audience is necessary to exist.
If "look toward the audience" literal translate "観客の方を見る" in this case audience is no necessary exist.
Ok i see, i knew i should have used the ～ず（に） structure.
Just curiosity, why is there particle か in ..居るかの様に？
Because you don`t know if there is or there is not? does it come from the かどうか structure?
Thanks anon, really from the heart for taking the time to assist a noob like me
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Anonymous2013-06-22 8:27
>>719
かの様に[彼の様に]
"か in かの様に" is 彼(not mean "he"). similar English is "that"(maybe :3)
(Japanese grammatical explanation : 遠称の指示代名詞)
まるで居るかの様に in this case, "か" refers to just before verb. ([まるで/居る。][彼(refers to 居る)/の/様に])
if I forcible translate is that, "as if that, audience were real".
"か-の様に" is emphasize to Verb than "の様に". in other words, "more emphasize sense of reality".
"か in か-どうか" is different. this "か" is 並列助詞(parallel particle(?))
...above is my construction. if you can talk to Japanese grammatical expert, please ask him/her.
my Japanese grammar was bad, as same as English. :3
I think usually use below.
just like Noun = まるで Noun のように
as if Subject Verb = まるで Subject は Verb(た-form) かの様に
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Anonymous2013-06-22 8:32
>>719
correct >>720
as if Subject Verb = まるで Subject は Verb(た-form/る-form) かの様に
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Anonymous2013-06-22 9:02
>>720
I see, i understand a little better now. I will ask more info to my teacher, because that is the first time i see か used in that way.
Many thanks friend
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Anonymous2013-06-22 19:36
So...
For an object that's near someone else or the speaker
The "ko" syllable in "kore wa" would indicate that what you're talking about is closer to you. Which could be related to "this" in english
Similarily, is sore wa where it's closer to who you're speaking to which is comparable to "that" in english
But reading further I learned of a knew particle calledd
"a" (are wa, asoko wa, etc.) which indicated neirness to neither?
What would I compare that too?
Same for "do" in "dore wa, dono, etc."
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Anonymous2013-06-22 23:33
>>723
We learned demonstrative pronoun,at English class in Japan.
Eng - 2steps:(me)<- this -><------- that -------> far
Jpn - 3steps:(me)<--これ--><--それ--><---あれ---> far
これ - this / それ、あれ - that / どれ(どの) - which, どこ- where, どう-how
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Anonymous2013-06-23 10:52
罰ゲームの取った場所は学校で病院で空港で温泉で他の場所もあります.
The places that were shot for the batsu games is, school, hospital, SPA, airport and there are other places.
Is this sentence correct?
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Anonymous2013-06-23 12:52
>>725
No it reads like complete shit and no one wants to read your crap about the gakituka specials
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Anonymous2013-06-23 12:55
>>723
Don't try to interpret grammar as a variant of another language's forms you stupid fucking kunt
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Anonymous2013-06-23 13:31
>725
>The places that were shot for the batsu games is, school, hospital, SPA, airport and there are other places.
罰ゲームの為に撮影された場所は、学校、病院、温泉、空港やその他の場所があります。
>726
>727
I can't translate English now.
まあ、落ち着こうよ。他の板に比べて過疎気味だし、いろんな質問あってもいいんじゃないか？あんまり難しいのは俺答えられんし。(´･ω･`)
のんびりマッタリやろうよ。
とりあえず寝直すわ。
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Anonymous2013-06-23 20:06
The difference between "that make them laugh" and "that will make them laugh" is marginal at most. As a native speaker, I feel that including "will" means it is absolutely definite that people will laugh, which is not necessarily true, and is better left out. Though that doesn't really help you with your Japanese, I guess.
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Anonymous2013-06-25 10:57
Hey all, i got a question for you.
Is it gramatically correct to use the ~たりする Form like this?
Example:
Make A wash dishes, eat vegetables, do homework etc..
Aに お皿を洗わせたり野菜を食べさせたり宿題をさせたりさせてあげます。
thanks
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Anonymous2013-06-25 18:55
>>730
usually, "～たりする" is used with Verbs "連用形(た-form?)".
Example:
彼女は飲んだり食べたりしている。She is doing eat and drink.
彼は行ったり来たりしている。 He is doing come and go.
Make A wash dishes, eat vegetables, do homework etc..
Aに お皿を洗わせたり野菜を食べさせたり宿題をさせたりします。
I think, "させてあげます" is OK, but "させてあげる" include meaning "I can allow do something".
if you will use "させてあげる", English sentence is "Let A do something" is better.
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7312013-06-25 19:07
>>730
I read dictionary. "make" can use forcibly and un-forcibly? if this is true, I'm wrong.
No, "make" generally means you force them. If there's a meaning that doesn't involve forcing, I can't think of it. させてあげる is pretty much always going to mean "allow".
>>730
Just to expand on what >>731 says, it doesn't make sense to double up させる. Generally たり is just going to use する, so you put させる on the verbs which you are making them do.
>>696
I got 25/30, 28 with oral, and 24 written test, and the teacher gave me 25..i wish it was 26, i got 26 on first and second exam too. ruined my score, curse her!
I need help translating these words especially the top one and the bottom one
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Lisa2013-06-27 15:29
Hello... I am sorry for the interruption, but I was directed here by /jp/ Can anyone please tell me what this word is? It is a friend's and we don't know what it says.
This is maybe a weird question but does anyone here write with a fountain pen? If so, what nib width do you use?
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Anonymous2013-06-28 11:41
Is 「理解せ！」 an imperative form of 「理解する」?
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Anonymous2013-06-28 17:22
>>746
「理解する」's imperative form is 理解せよor理解しろ.
does the word have 振り仮名(add kana to Chinese characters)?
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Anonymous2013-06-28 17:52
>>745
for what it's worth...
I usually use mechanical pencil(0.5mm width) or ball-point pen(0.5mm-0.7mm width).
I use fountain pen when I must write formally something( curriculum vitae etc.). but my fountain pen is very cheap, so ink leakage is terrible.
>>750
In case of intransitive Verb, the word can use "～せ" without "よ".
ex. 話す(はな-す:speak) -> imperative form: 話せ
In this case, 理解 is transitive Verb.
(理解 : Noun, 理解する:transitive Verb)
imperative form of transitive Verb must use "せよ" or "しろ".
can not use "せ" only.
(more correctly, する's imperative form. 理解せよ/理解しろ/理解しなさい etc..)
if "理解せ" has no furigana's, maybe it is misspell.
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Anonymous2013-06-30 4:04
>>40
The best way is what you're doing. The kanjis all share the same writing pattern, you should focus on learning to write the radicals. If you know how to write the radicals you'll be able to write all the kanjis, since they're all basically made of radicals put together.
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Anonymous2013-06-30 14:39
Does anyone else see romaji when they read something in kana? Will this go away with time?
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7522013-06-30 16:07
Ah! I'm wrong! 話す is transitive Verb. very very sorry.
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Anonymous2013-07-01 9:17
>>754
It does go away with time. At least, it did for me.
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Anonymous2013-07-01 16:22
せよ is a form of する. It is not せ+よ, at least not in modern Japanese. You can't break it up.
It also doesn't have anything to do with transitivity, it's just する.
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Anonymous2013-07-02 17:53
You can see your dick?
あなたは、あなたのペニスを見ることができますか？
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Anonymous2013-07-02 23:37
It's incredibly unnatural, but it's technically grammatically correct. What are you asking this?
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Anonymous2013-07-03 9:43
I have a doubt about expressing needs.
For example, I'm almost out of tea and I make a comment that "I need to buy more tea", implying that for some reason I'm kind of screwed without tea. Would that be some situation where I would use the なければならない? Or a situation that something urgent came up, and I want to communicate the people I'm with that I must leave, but without touching on the subject of why, should I use it too?
And about the short なきゃ form? Is it too informal? And ない shortened forms like ん and ぬ? I've seen in many media people speak なければならん for example.
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Anonymous2013-07-03 12:35
Both of those situations you described are fine to use なければならない.
>I've seen in many media people speak なければならん for example.
What do you mean when you say "media people"? Because people on the news sure as hell don't speak like that. Do you mean characters in popular media?
It doesn't make any sense to ask "is xxx too informal". Too informal for what? For meeting your girlfriends' parents? For talking to your best friend? For extending greetings to an alien race? Formality is part of context, no one speaks in the same register all of the time.
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Anonymous2013-07-03 12:51
The context where I'm worried about the informality of なきゃ are:
Internet conversation where I don't have much space to type(or it is too much work to write), with a total stranger that I will not see again, but I want to sound polite.
Internet conversation with a stranger that I want to be friends with(and obviously I wouldn't want to sound rude).
I have little to no experience with being in a dialog, and I find writing long stuff like なければならない might be too cumbersome for some everyday chitchat.
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Anonymous2013-07-03 13:08
なきゃいけないです is fine for internet strangers. Especially if they know you're a foreigner, they won't care if you use shortened forms.
Either way, typing length shouldn't be your major limiting factor once you get used to it.
Sup /lang/.
先生はアメリカの大学で日本語を教えられます。
In the dictionary of basic grammar, this is translated as "The teacher is going to teach Japanese in an american university". But 教える is in passive form (or potential). How does that work?
皆さん、お食事を出来ました。
This is translated as "Folks, the meal is ready now", but the verb is in past form. Why?
母がお連れいたします。
Translated as "My mother will take you there". This is keigo, I know that much, but why is 連れる in past form?
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Anonymous2013-07-04 11:05
>>766
1. Passive can be used to create distance between the speaker and the subject, similar in effect to keigo or sonkeigo. It's a respect thing.
2. Because Japanese isn't English. 食事(ga)出来る means to "make" or "prepare" a meal with the sense that it's completed (which wouldn't make sense in the present tense). It's equivalent to saying "the meal is served/ready/soups up/etc. etc."
3.Wow. It's not. 致します. You need to study WAAY more.
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Anonymous2013-07-04 22:18
It should be 食事ができました, not をできました. を is not used with できる.
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Anonymous2013-07-05 4:59
Why do so many people praise Heisig's method of remember Kanji? Right now I'm about to start learning Kanji, but I'm undecided on what method I should go about this.
Can anyone who's tried this method tell me why its better than just going through and learning Kanji in the same order Japanese school children do?
Does anyone have an opinion on what is the best, if not Heisig? Right now after skimming through quite a bit of textbooks and programs I'm leaning towards "2001.Kanji.Oddysey"
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Anonymous2013-07-05 13:58
So, I tried out that KeyHoleTV from the opening post and it sucks, so I'm using NijiTV from http://www.myniji.tv/ and it has way better quality.
Is there another place or program to watch TV more and/or better?
Because the way Japanese school children learn is by rote memorization. You also have to remember that they are not just learning this in a vacuum, they have words to match every character to and are constantly surrounded by these characters every day.
Heisig tries to give this visual memory by establishing ways for you to effectively memorize each one. It works fairly well in this regard, and it's fairly easy to burn through all of the base 2000 in 1-3 months. The main advantage is that it makes writing much easier.
If you're not going to do Heisig or something similar (such as Kanjidamage) then I recommend just learning vocabulary. Trying to go along and just memorize every single one by their readings and meaning is going to result in a huge headache and little retained information.
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Anonymous2013-07-06 11:52
My RTK1 is almost finished and I have started to learn vocabulary by core2000 deck. Because Japanese doesn't have spaces, how am I supposed to know where are the breaks supposed to be? Sometimes I feel like I am reading sentences totally wrong because of that.
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Anonymous2013-07-06 14:43
Kanji and context. It's pretty rare that there is any ambiguity at all about where a word begins and ends.
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Anonymous2013-07-06 17:15
>>772
Particles are the easiest orientation markers, as they give "meaning" or, more appropriately, application to word the precede them. There are no "breaks" or empty spaces in Japanese because they simply don't need them. Syntax and kanji make them obsolete. AndquitehonestlyEnglishdoesn'texactly"need"themeither.
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Anonymous2013-07-07 5:31
>>774
Well the question came up when I specially had problem with following sentence:
kanji: 今朝は早く家を出ました。
kana: けさははやくいえをでました
So because I am learning, I THOUGHT the first part should be read like:
今朝 は 早く...
けさは は やく...
But after I checked from google translation, I found it is actually:
けさ は はやく...
So I wanted to avoid such mistakes in future.
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Anonymous2013-07-07 11:10
>>775
I don't get how you could manage fucking up that badly. This isn't meant as an insult, I'm genuinely surprised. Why would you remove は from 早い and stack the particle into a noun? Maybe you should study some basic words in isolation before taking on sentences if your current level of comprehension is that low...
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Anonymous2013-07-07 12:18
>>776
I didn't remove or add anything. I just read the text how it seemed to be the most natural. How should I have known which は is the particle? Readings of 今朝 and 早い will be introduced on 73th and 100th cards. That's why I asked how to recognize the breaks and rhythm. Seems answer is; know the words.
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Anonymous2013-07-07 12:34
>I didn't remove or add anything.
(not that guy you're responding to but) you most definitely did remove a は from 早く and add a は to 今朝. I really have no idea how you are getting けさは from just 今朝 and how you are getting やく from 早く.
Particles do not go into kanji. If you see 今朝は早く, the は is the particle. What makes you think it would be any other way?
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Anonymous2013-07-07 16:07
>>778
>If you see 今朝は早く, the は is the particle.
That's obvious, but what is the particle in けさははやく.. was the problem because I didn't know how to read 今朝 or 早く and I had to guess 今朝 is read けさは or けさ and 早く is はやく or やく.
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Anonymous2013-07-07 17:32
>>779
You're doing a bad job. At no point is "guessing" an efficient method of study. Find a new method.
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Anonymous2013-07-07 17:45
Why are you breaking the whole thing down into kana before analyzing it? That doesn't make any sense. Also, a simple dictionary lookup would show you that they're not read that way, ever. At this point I'm not sure if this is a subtle troll or if you're really that clueless.
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Anonymous2013-07-07 19:37
Is 懐かしすぎる just an euphemism for "old as fuck"?
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Anonymous2013-07-07 20:06
I've never heard it. It just means they find it extremely nostalgic.
You should really give context when asking a question like that.
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Anonymous2013-07-07 23:12
>>782
People say it, and you might be able to translate it as that, expect they aren't simply saying it's "old", but more so the strength of the nostalgia. "Nostalgic as fuck" works brilliantly.
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Anonymous2013-07-07 23:21
>>780
I obviously realized it and that's why I asked how to recognize the breaks when there are no spaces, huh.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 8:22
>>781
>Also, a simple dictionary lookup would show you that they're not read that way, ever
Are you incapable to read? That's exactly how I found out how it is supposed to be read. That's why my question was, how to RECOGNIZE the word breaks. Of course I want to try to read and solve sentence breaks, words, readings and translation first by myself before looking up from a dictionary.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 11:31
Usually in means where there are no kanji or they are scarcely used, there are breaks beetween some stuff. An example from a 3yo's book:
And you shouldn't be having problems with a sentence with such basic words like けさ or はやく. These words should spring 今朝 and 早く immediately to your mind, after that you can see the particles pretty easily.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 14:33
>Are you incapable to read? That's exactly how I found out how it is supposed to be read.
Then why the fuck would you think it's けさは as one word? Why would you even think for a second that 早く is somehow は+やく and they just merged that into the kanji? That makes no sense whatsoever, and in all of the Japanese learners I have met, none of them have ever made this kind of mistake.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 15:00
>>787
Well after this experience will probably remember both of them.
Still I don't get logic behind breaking the sentences. Like this one:
私の国について少しお話しましょう。
First breaks are easy because there are just kanji and particles
私 の 国 に...
But what about the rest? I suppose correct breaks are
...ついて 少し お話 しましょう
Like how am I supposed to know お forms word with 話 instead of 少し? If I wouldn't have checked, I would be reading this sentence wrong because few cards ago 話 was just 話.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 15:07
>>788
Write 'XはY' and 'けさははやく' for someone and ask him to guess what X and Y are. He will answer X is either けさは or けさ.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 15:25
>>789
If you are just studying vocabulary with absolutely no grammar whatsoever, you'll run frequently into these problems.
People are probably getting hot about this is because you are getting confused with some basic grammar.
Long story short, you attach お to some nouns and verbs to express politeness, in the same way as stuff you probably have observed before like お願いします(おねがいします), お金(おかね), お好み焼き(おこのみやき). The thing is, you should study(more) grammar.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 15:59
>>791
All grammar I have studied is particles. I was given advice that I should read sentences, recognize the familiar particles & kanji, figure out other shared factors and at some points go read the grammar guide to understand what I have actually learned. To follow that advice, I am trying read sentences out loud, but without being able to see the breaks, I am reading like a machine gun or there is a break between almost every kana.
Anyway thank you, especially for not being an ass.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 16:26
>>790
But the sentence isn't けさははやく, it was 今朝は早く. Stop breaking it down before you analyze it, that's ridiculous.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 16:33
>>792
If you've literally studied nothing but particles and the kana, you'd be better off looking at a few grammar guides before just slamming example sentences. Try Tae Kim's or genki.
>>784
I see, thanks. I thought it had a bad meaning between the lines.
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Anonymous2013-07-08 19:36
>>787
Now I understand why they don't want to abolish kanji.
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Anonymous2013-07-09 8:41
>>793
How I should analyze it? All I can see is "Now", "Morning", a particle, "Early" and kana which isn't a particle. That's all the information I have.
Now when I check the answer side, see the kana sentence and the translation, now I have more information. Now I can do the analysis and connect the dots. Now after that if something is unclear or I just want be sure, I'll check a dictionary or translator, like I did on this one. I am no trying to argue, but I would like to hear, how my method could be any more effective.
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Anonymous2013-07-09 9:01
>>794
Yes I own the book. Still I believe it would be really ineffective to read 500 pages of grammar study book before starting to actually reading Japanese texts. I didn't learn English like that either. But if you suggest so, what chapters of Tae Kim should be enough for Core2k? After month of kanji grinding I just had huge craving to read actual Japanese sentences and words and become familiar with them.
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Anonymous2013-07-09 14:01
Hi! I'm going to take the JPLT N5 this year. I have "Genki I" and "Genki II" books. How many chapters I have to complete in order to have a proper preparation for the JPLT N5 exam? thanks in advance!
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Anonymous2013-07-09 14:12
>>797
Use the tools that are available to you and linked in the opening post. Rikaikun/chan/sama would show immediately where the words are, and it's very useful when starting out for this purpose (especially when names are involved)
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Anonymous2013-07-09 14:14
>>798
Grinding kanji is kind of stupid in general. If you're talking about RTK, I guess I can understand, but grammar really is fundamental and core to everything. It isn't what will take you the most time (learning new vocab will last a lifetime) but it is the major barrier to being able to say "I understand Japanese".
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Anonymous2013-07-09 14:47
>>799
Protip: Don't waste your money and wait until you can take N1 or N2.
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Anonymous2013-07-10 14:34
>>800
Okay that's actually reasonable. If rikaichan is available, I will use it for new sentences (like when I am on mobile it isn't an option). I just learned new words and sentences with that method and so far I think it is more effective. Thank you.
Other thing which I noticed useful was during reviewing I always tried to type the sentences in notepad with IME. It's good way to test memory and I will immediately notice if I was wrong on something, therefore there won't be more major reading failures.
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Anonymous2013-07-10 15:47
>>803
You can go even further and write things you read into paper.
For that you'll have to practice some stroke order and it'll be an immense help in learning Kanji, especially for discerning between those Kanji that look very alike. e.g. 積/漬
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Anonymous2013-07-13 23:49
I've been studying Japanese for nearly a year now and I would really like to try to voice with someone in Japanese. I know a few Japanese people on Skype but I'm kind of shy to ask them, especially since my speaking skills aren't yet developed enough to have a reasonably sophisticated conversation.
In text, I can usually keep up a conversation and express 90% of what I want as long as I have time and access to a dictionary, but it's still quite broken and I still have problems understanding things.
I finished going through KD a few months ago. Of course that's not to say that I'm fully familiar with everything there. I'm still going to be learning it for a long time but I'm not drawing any new kanji from that set that I have to study. I've added a few hundred kanji since then, just from the ones that I happen to come across while being immersed in Japanese. I think it's pretty fun to know poetic kanji such as 颪 or 雫 that are not necessarily useful in everyday conversation but still have their place in artistic works.
I'm always looking for creative ways to expand my learning. I've been using music lately to help me remember words. What I do is print out the lyrics on a piece of paper and read them while listening to a song. Music has rhythm and a sense of flow to it. Similar to the concept of mnemonics, a good way to remember a word is to remember how it was used in a song. I guess I just need time.
Sorry if this sounded like a blog. I just thought that somebody might find this useful.
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Anonymous2013-07-15 13:52
What's a polite way to invite someone to visit your home? Like for example, how would you say, "Please come visit my home sometime. It'll be fun!"
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Anonymous2013-07-15 13:56
ぜひおうちに遊びに来てください！きっと楽しんでいただけるかと思います。
Something like that. Without knowing who you're talking to in more detail, it's hard to say how polite you should be.
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Anonymous2013-07-22 23:15
I would not say おうち to refer to my own home. It has the connotation of "your home". Also, that sentence gives me the sense of "come over right now".
Of course, I would never invite someone to my home anyway, which is extremely small and quite messy. (._.)
It's not the うち that's the issue, it's the お. 家来いよ or something for example is possible. That's why your link says it's childish, because most adults aren't going to refer to their own place with お.
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Anonymous2013-07-25 16:23
Hi /lang/. I have one question.
知らない人が私にコーラを買って呉れた。
This is translated as "A stranger bought me cola".
But wouldn't "A stranger" be 知られない人? I was under the impression that a relative clause describes what it's preceding, so 知らない人 would be "A person who doesn't know".
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Anonymous2013-07-25 21:49
>>811
（私が）知らない人
Someone I don't know = A stranger
知られない人
Someone who isn't known = nope
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Anonymous2013-07-26 2:56
I'm working on a translating a vn for practice in my studies, I'm a little stumped here
「さあ、今です！ 人族などというゴミを、その魔族の象徴たる色で、黒き刃で、汚い肉塊へと変えてやって下さい！」
Can someone post a translation so I can compare it to mine and explain the taru usage to me. I love you all.
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Anonymous2013-07-26 9:57
Literal (i.e. bad) translation: Alright, now! Turn this trash we call the human race into filthy shreds of meat with that color that symbolizes the devil race, with the black blade!
More natural translation: Now is the time! Eviscerate these worthless humans with the standard of the devil race, the black blade!
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Anonymous2013-07-26 10:01
>>814
Also: Eviscerate this worthless human race into piles of rotting flesh...etc.
Sounds more gruesome. Rely on context and the character's defining traits to make the final call.
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Anonymous2013-07-28 23:21
I can't figure out this line from the extended Sasami-san ED: もっと かわいけりゃいいのに
Oh, thanks. I'm still not used to anything that doesn't show up exactly the way it did in the book but I guess I'll pick it up in time.
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Anonymous2013-07-30 11:11
What is the difference between 茨, 荊, and 棘. Even 刺 seems to have a nuance. Everything I find on the Internet about this confuses me.
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Anonymous2013-07-30 11:35
>>819
Most sites have 茨 as the most common, and the other two as variants. What are you worried about this for? Unless you're going for kanken 1 or trying to deal in plants in Japan, this is probably the most useless thing I've seen asked on the /lang/ threads.
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Anonymous2013-07-30 11:38
>>819
If you're at the point where you are worrying about kanji variants for plants, but aren't capable of googling "茨 荊 棘 違い" and looking at the second result (http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1336512853), it makes me intensely curious what exactly brought about this question.
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Anonymous2013-07-30 11:41
>>820
I'm at 1830 Kanji so I'm starting to dive into this lesser-known stuff. If I was starting out then I would agree with you. I like to have this kind of stuff figured out.
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Anonymous2013-07-30 11:51
>>822
1830 kanji is a really small number relative to what you're asking. いばら itself is a pretty uncommon word, and you haven't even reached the joyo level. You'd be far better off remembering all the kanji on the Tokyo metro system, or the prefectures, or something like that. At least then you might actually encounter what you're trying to learn.
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Anonymous2013-07-30 13:27
Engrish mothelfuckel!
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Anonymous2013-07-30 16:22
>>823
The rate of occurrence of words varies by people's interests. I'd say it's not a daily-use word but still necessary for fluency. I don't learn words by the official standards. I just learn what I happen to come across. That way I know I'm going to be able to use it.
Is there any reason to go by the joyo standard if I'm not taking tests? Also, I won't have to means to go to Japan for years to why would be learning the metro kanji now?
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Anonymous2013-07-30 17:19
>>825
>I'd say it's not a daily-use word but still necessary for fluency.
Well, obviously. If nothing else there's 茨城県. I'm not saying you don't need the word, but knowing each character as well as the difference between them is a waste of time unless you have a good reason for it. If you look up every possible character for every word you see, you're going to pick up a ton of extraneous information when you could be learning more relevant things.
>Is there any reason to go by the joyo standard if I'm not taking tests?
No. Hell, even if you are (JLPT in particular) it's best to just learn to read things you enjoy. The only thing where lists are going to come into play is kanji kentei, which most people never take and is mostly for bragging rights.
>Also, I won't have to means to go to Japan for years to why would be learning the metro kanji now?
I only listed that as an example of an exercise that would be fairly pointless, but still more useful than learning the difference between 茨/荊/棘.
>>826
I have to agree with this. In English, when you come across with a word 'pineapple', you don't look up what 'pine' and 'apple' mean, you just learn what the word 'pineapple' means.
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Anonymous2013-08-01 10:00
I thought I could kill two birds with one stone and listen some Japanese while doing office work. My goal would be to get used to hearing Japanese and understand simple sentences. I am already studying vocabulary and grammar from text, but I just want some extra. What would be good material for a beginner? I've tried to listen anime drama CDs but it is still hard to grasp what's going on. Japanese music is also out of the question. I am aware of NHK 'easy Japanese' lessons, but they have too much extra stuff (like explaining grammar and cultural habits, just too much English in general). I just wish I could listen a sentence and then rough translation. One method would be to record my own material but I am afraid of pronunciation errors and it might be awkward.
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Anonymous2013-08-04 12:26
>>828
Except Japanese isn't English, and the words that contain either "pine" or "apple" are practically non-existent. Learning 茨 as thorns and 城 as castle, along with their respective onyoumi and kunyoumi, is efficient simply because of the amount of repetition. Yes, obviously you'll want to understand what 茨城 is, but knowing each fragment increases literacy.
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Anonymous2013-08-04 12:30
>>830
We have a bad habit in English of simply taking a word and its spelling at face value (because our orthography doesn't line up with our alphabet). Pronunciation can vary (though finitely), but orthography and meaning are ultra-consistent. That's why Japanese people learn each kanji in school and why second language Japanese learners struggle with it.
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Anonymous2013-08-04 14:22
>Pronunciation can vary (though finitely), but orthography and meaning are ultra-consistent.
That's not true at all. The meaning of a compound can vary significantly from its constituent parts, and it's uncommon that you can accurately surmise the meaning of a word given only the meaning of its kanji. Memorizing all facets of kanji en masse with the intent of actually learning to read is silly. Vocab is the biggest block, not kanji.
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Anonymous2013-08-04 20:10
>>832
I never said that compound kanji do not vary in meaning from their singular parts; it's obvious they would. I'm saying the meanings of singular kanji do not vary, and as such deserve to be learned because of it. Very often it possible to come close to the "meaning", though maybe not the function, of compound kanji by understanding the meaning of each.
And no, learning the meanings of kanji may not help with "reading" but, as I said, it will certainly help with literacy. The same can be said for studying Latin and Greek roots in English. Will it be easier to memorize the thousands of words that use con- and pro-? No, but it will be much easier to surmise the meaning of an unfamiliar word from them, instead of simply interpreting the unknown in a bubble and dedicating it to memory through rote memorization without noticing connections or overlap.
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Anonymous2013-08-04 20:14
>>833
And I'm not saying someone should chug through thousands of kanji only to put them together in compounds either. I agree vocabulary, active words, takes precedent over singular kanji, but there is certainly value in learning the meanings of each.
If someone wanted to become an English professor, I'd suggest they learn Latin or Greek. I definitely wouldn't suggest it to someone who just wants to learn English.
You can learn the characters and their pronunciations separately from vocabulary, but you're using time that could be allocated more effectively.
Not to mention, it isn't like you're going to be completely clueless about characters if you don't study them specifically. Anyone who knows 感じる is going to be able to guess at 感動 or 同感. I know plenty of Latin and Greek roots, and I've never studied Latin or Greek a day in my life.
Well, the only reason I brought this up in the first place was because the guy said he had learned 1800-some kanji and was worried about the differences between three relatively uncommon ones. That strikes me as exactly what you describe, "chugging through thousands only to put them together in compounds".
I wasn't trying to suggest it was useless (hell, I did Heisig and I don't regret it), just that I really dislike the mentality some learners have of "grind kanji until you know enough". It's silly and unrealistic.
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Anonymous2013-08-04 20:20
>>835
For a beginning learner? No. But I supposed we were talking about someone who already had a grasp on the basics and, as per your example, could already discern basic combinations of kanji from common words.
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Anonymous2013-08-05 2:27
This is a really weeaboo question, but I was wondering about this onomatopoeia: チュルチュチュ
Hello everyone, please, help me with translation the following sentence 後日談。あの時無理をしてでも寝室を別にしなければこんな事には・・・・・・めでたしめでたし
Full:
人A「え？ それってもしかして最悪の場合は別室に至りますか？」
人B「そうだな。そうして二人は捲怠期を迎えてあえなく離婚。後日談。あの時無理をしてでも寝室を別にしなければこんな事には・・・・・・めでたしめでたし」
人A「今のにめでたい話がどこかひとつでもありましたか！？」
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Anonymous2013-08-07 14:15
question to japanese speakers:
are kang xi radicals really that useful for learning kanji? whenever i look up on kang xi i only get chinese stuff.
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Anonymous2013-08-07 16:00
>>841
I don't know what kang xi is/are. Radicals are useful for learning kanji, though, yes.
>>840
The ・・・ is basically "we wouldn't have gotten divorced". She's saying having different bedrooms would be the worst case, and he's presenting a story where they get divorced because they were tired of each other and didn't split into different rooms. If you want specific help with one part of the sentence you'll have to ask for it, as there's a lot of things going on and I don't feel like explaining every single one of them. It would also make the situation clearer if you'd provide the sentence(s) before that exchange.
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Anonymous2013-08-07 16:34
あの時無理をしてでも寝室を別にしなければこんな事には・・・・・・めでたしめでたし
So, the translation of this sentence would be something like "Even if we had done something impossible that time and didn't split into different rooms we still had to divorce anyway... wonderful, just wonderful" ?
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Anonymous2013-08-07 16:38
>>843
Oh, my bad, not "wonderful, just wonderful" but "... and they all lived happily ever after"
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Anonymous2013-08-07 17:17
>>844
No, it's more like "If only I had split us into separate rooms (we wouldn't have gotten divorced) ... and they all lived happily ever after"
~してでも "even going so far as to ~", or what have you. むりをしてでも in particular is common and means "at all costs". 無理をしてでも寝室を別にする means "split into separate rooms at all costs".
Hey guys, i`m having problems understanding what the guy B answeres to guy A. I found this comment on youtube and i really can`t understand what he means.
Guy A:
このラストシーンは、
どう見ても完全に終わってる２人が、まだ楽天的に未来に希望を持ってるという｢残酷さ｣を描いている。
この映画を観て、勇気が沸くとか奮い立つとか思ったのなら、観間違えてる。
In the last scene, the 2 draw (?) a cruelty that still has optimistic future wishes. You are wrong if you think that watching the movie will give you courage and cheer you up.
Guy B:
観る側の自由なのに、こういう映画だって決めつける奴ってつまんないよね
This part i have no idea.
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Anonymous2013-08-10 16:37
>>849
描く goes with ラストシーン. The harsh last scene depicts 2 people whose lives are over, and yet still look to the future with hope. If you look at this scene and get courage or feel revved up, you're looking at it wrong.
The other guy responds that it's the viewer's choice on how to interpret the movie, and guys who decide for them are no fun/boring (in English we'd be more likely to call them "idiots").
Even though it's the freedom of the side that watches, someone who arbitrarily decides something in regards to this movie is really stupid
Actually:
When it's a matter of being in the eye of the beholder, someone who imposes their opinion on this kind of movie is a real cunt.
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Anonymous2013-08-11 15:53
>>851
or "imposes that it's "this" kinda of movie"
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Anonymous2013-08-12 2:24
I'm confused in 会話が彼女たちの中で完結して、中に入っていけない。 part, if I understand correctly 中に入っていけない means "I cannot enter their conversation" but what about 完結して ? If the conversation already over then why he cannot enter it ? Or maybe I'm mistaken something?
空いている means "to be empty". You can find that out in any dictionary. I'm not really sure what's confusing you. "(our building) is so empty that we're lending out rooms to students".
The same thing as when a male ends a sentence in かな. The meaning of words don't change with gender.
Without any context, we can't tell you anything more than a dictionary can.
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Anonymous2013-08-15 13:51
>>859
Usually the ideas of "maybe", "I wonder", "or something like that", "how about", "should, could, would I" etc., a soft, semi-soliloquized inquisitive particle.
Hello everyone, I'm stuck with これぐらいしなければ in the following sentences, what exactly author wants to tell us with this「これ」?
・・・・・・これぐらいしなければ、酒に酔うこともできない俺・・・・・・
Excuse me. I can't understand the following sentence:
一見まるで噛み合わなそうな歯車が、こんなにも楽しい日常を回している
Are 噛み合わな (to gear) and 歯車 (gear, cog-wheel) some sort of metaphors?
About context; person has joined club where everyone has a bit different kind of interests and (I think) he is recalling something when that line comes up.
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Anonymous2013-08-22 11:00
Of course they're metaphors.
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Anonymous2013-08-22 15:21
"むかつだよ."
Would this sentence make sense in japanese?
If so, what would it mean?
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Anonymous2013-08-22 23:48
No, that makes no sense. What are you getting at? Why be so vague about your question?
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Anonymous2013-08-23 8:14
I'm confused in 「群れることを好まれる虫殿」 part here, according to jdic 好まれる means "to like; to appreciate..." in this case I would translate this part like "虫殿 who prefer to do something in group" or something like this; however as far as eow.alc tells me
(http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E5%A5%BD%E3%81%BE%E3%82%8C&ref=sa)
好まれる is just passive form of 好む, that is why I don't know how should I translate it.
Sentence - ああ、それともあれですか？群れることを好まれる虫殿は、臆病風に吹かれていると？
>>874
Damn, how could I forgot about this... thank you very much.
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Anonymous2013-08-23 12:39
Do Chinese and Japanese have anything common outside Kanji? In my new university there is chance to study Chinese, but unfortunately not Japanese, so I thought, could studying Chinese help me with my Japanese studies? Or will it just probably have unwanted, confusing effect?
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Anonymous2013-08-23 15:54
>>871
Uh I just heard something in this game I play, and I thought that might what he said. I thought it'd mean something along the lines of 'You make me sick/ I'm pissed off" because in this one anime ending this chick says "de mo mukatsuku" which the subber put as "But you piss me off."
So yeah, just forget it I guess.
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Anonymous2013-08-23 15:55
むかつだよ is not the same as むかつく. むかつ is not a verb and you don't put だ after verbs anyway. It was probably むかつくんだよ.
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Anonymous2013-08-23 15:56
>>876
It might familiarize you with the characters and there are some shared meanings, but it would be akin to taking French in order to study English (aka don't do it if you don't have any intention of actually learning Chinese)
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Anonymous2013-08-23 17:29
Is there an extension to make a discussion page auto-refresh, like in the regular 4chan boards, or do I have to manually refresh every now and then?
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Anonymous2013-08-23 19:45
I have a question.
I seem to remember reading about the following subject, but I can't remember where I read it:
in Japanese handwriting, there are three types of strokes; one which ends in a stop, one which ends in a streak, and one which ends in a jump. (I may be getting the terminology wrong, but that is the gist of it.)
If anyone happens to know which book or resource contains this information, please tell me.
>>40
James 'Tha Killa' Heisig's Remembering The Kanji
Writing them over and over is good, that's really the only way you're going to learn stroke order.
The stories are bullshit in RTK, but the order you learn them in is good.
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Anonymous2013-08-23 20:09
>>876
Both have particles, but Chinese has almost no inflection.
Also, I think the frequency of certain characters in Chinese is pretty different from Japanese, and there are some differences between the characters, especially if you learn simplified Chinese.
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Anonymous2013-08-23 20:19
>>841
They're important, but in my experience it's better to learn them passively than actively. What I mean by this is that you should learn kanji from Heisig's RTK. It presents them in an order such that later kanji build off the radicals from previous ones. You practice the same radicals very close to each other, so it's easy to ingrain the radicals. Maybe something like 歩, 少, and 止. Heisig would give you those three pretty close together. Same with stuff like 日 and 胆. 日 is probably one of the first kanji that you learned, but 胆 means gall bladder and probably wasn't a top priority. In RTK, it's like the 50th kanji you learn since it has 日 as a radical. If you learned kanji with the same radical very far apart, it would likely be harder to make the connection.
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Anonymous2013-08-25 7:41
Help me please with translation this part 顔がどうこう言う程度のことでノーリアクションなら, I cannot understand how to translate 顔がどうこう言う程度 part.
Full:
人Ａ「もうちょい愛想のいい地顔してたらよかったのにねえ、残念だねえ。いやしかしその近寄りがたいトコがいいのか・・・・・・ううむ」
人Ｂ「残念な顔でわるかったな」
人Ｂの思い「顔がどうこう言う程度のことでノーリアクションなら、ネタにされている程度であって、本気もクソもねえだろう。
大体、俺はなかなかひとの顔を覚えないという特技を有している。未だにクラスの連中の顔と名前がときどき一致すしない。こんな状態で女子寮に行っても意味がない。」
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Anonymous2013-08-25 13:29
顔がどうこう you can think of this as "my face being this way or that way" in a literal sense. In context, 顔がどうこう言う程度のことでノーリアクションなら "if I don't react to her saying stuff about my face . . ."
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Anonymous2013-08-25 13:43
I would like to attend a Japanese language school in Tokyo next spring.
Do you have any recommendations about how to choose a school?
Hello guys! Tell me please, what is 自らその悪の報いをとれり means in the following sentences?
「世界を終わらせるってのは、楽しいものなのかね」
「義人、一人だになし。かれらの霊魂は災いなるかな。自らその悪の報いをとれりーー」
「ばっちいのは全部塩にしちゃえーってね。いいんじゃない？嫌いじゃないよ、そいうの」
Thank you very much!
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Anonymous2013-08-27 17:41
I'm not too familiar with classical Japanese beyond what I've seen in video games, etc, but り is an ending indicating completion. 悪の報い is "wages of sin" if you want to be poetic; it simply refers to what you get as a result from doing bad things. 自らその悪の報いをとれり then means "they take the wages of sin themselves".
It should use the system default, though, and I've never had any problem with that. What deck are you using? Every card can specify a default font in the actual cards themselves, that could be causing an issue.
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Anonymous2013-08-31 1:01
>>897
Yeah, I'm using Japanese CorePLUS on Linux and Linux's Japanese support is non-consistent(or I didn't install all needed fonts).
For example, in this field (where I actually type answer) Japanese glyphs are being displayed, so 直 has L-shaped strokes. But in actual post (e.g. >>896) or in URL field it displays Chinese glyph. (http://imgur.com/La2fdwl)
Thanks, I changed the font to Sazanami Mincho.
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Anonymous2013-08-31 1:23
>>898
That's a Chrome issue. Its display of Japanese/Chinese fonts is extremely spotty and strange. They fixed it a bit (it used to completely ignore tags, so pages like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/han_unification showed all Chinese stuff across the board) but it's still not great. Firefox is better if you're concerned about what fonts show up.
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Anonymous2013-08-31 6:13
Any clues what this could mean?
気にしない様にと思えば思うほど気になってくる。
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Anonymous2013-08-31 10:13
>>900
The more you try not to care, the more you end up caring.
Don't mind me, just bumping this back to the first page (thread sorting seems to have gone haywire)
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Anonymous2013-09-03 13:52
Hello guys, can you please tell me why is it 「ておいて」 used in 「押しかけておいて」 in the following sentence ?(I understand two basic meanings of ておく, however I cannot understand it here)
Full sentences: http://piccy.info/view3/5079949/6bd896a733d2c4a0ed8c0ebf25731783/orig/
Thank you very much for help!
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Anonymous2013-09-03 19:55
>>904
押しかける to intrude, press, burden, bust in, etc.
ておく to do before hand, to do in preparation for, etc.
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Anonymous2013-09-07 5:37
I am a complete newbie and getting tripped up over Hiragana.
Does anyone have any good mnemonic pictures I can associate shit with? There are a lot of very similar looking characters with slight difference... I am looking at you:
A, O, RI, Ki, sa, chi, ko, ta, ni, ne, re, wa, nu, me, no, ha, ho, ma, ru, ro
Also is stroke order something I need to learn for kana when I finally start writing?
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Anonymous2013-09-08 12:09
>>906
Whatch namasensei. Just go to YouTube and type 'namasensei'. His mnemonics are ok.
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Anonymous2013-09-10 7:39
I don't understand purpose of 対する. Could someone explain it to me?
その質問に対する答えが見つからなかった
Translation is "I couldn't find an answer to that question.". How would the sentence change if I left the 対する out?
その質問に答えが見つからなかった
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Anonymous2013-09-10 7:52
>>906
Just google kana mnemonics. It depends on person, which mnemonics work for you. Personally I made my own mnemonics. I had story for every consonant, story changed a little depending the vowel part and shape of the kana. If you have Android device, I suggest getting app Kana Mind. It's perfect for beginner.
Can't help with the stroke order because I haven't written single kana with pen and paper. My goal is just to be able to read and write by using computer.
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Anonymous2013-09-10 14:12
>>908
The purpose of 対する is its meaning: "regarding, against, relating to, opposing, etc."
Thus その質問に対する答え would be understood as "an answer regarding that question" and が見つからなかった as "could not be found"
その質問に答えが見つからなかった would likely be understood but its rather awkward, saying something like "an answer couldn't be found in the question". Replacing に with の presents a solution (and hopefully demonstrates to you how particles work [i.e. you don't know how particles work]): その質問の答えが見つからなかった "The answer of the question could not be found"
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Anonymous2013-09-11 3:47
>>910
Thanks. I didn't really pay attention to how particle would work out and to be honest, I wouldn't have noticed the difference, so that was also very informative.
"For me, there is a certain indescribable frustration in that fact. But this I can say for sure."
It might help if we knew who this speaker is or why he would find the fact that an entire world can't disappear frustrating. Translating the ・・・でもしかし。 literally is generally a bad idea. それは is the fact that the world can't disappear.
>>916
It sounds like a liberal translation, or else it was something originally written in English that was then translated into Japanese.
>>918
It's normally pronounced りゃく. The kun reading is very rarely used, even when the character is alone.
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Anonymous2013-09-21 8:33
>>920
Kun or on doesn't matter. It's the very first result with both of them. I wonder if >>918 just fucked up
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Anonymous2013-09-21 8:35
>>916
if it was 流行の画像 then meme pictures could maybe be considered a way to translate it, but that's not what it is. i'd begin to question the quality of the translation in general if they manage to fuck off that badly
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Anonymous2013-09-21 8:45
>>919
the ime builds a "personal" conversion dictionary, so what's offered as the first possibility for you might differ from other people. it was the forth suggestion in microsoft ime on my computer, as i don't use that shit to type. still it was definitely there, so 918 fucked something up.
while on the topic of japanese input, everyone should switch to google ime. it's so much better at conversion than the ms shit bundled with windows. it's available for os x and android too. linux users can get the same functionality by using fcitx/ibus with mozc engine
>>921
I only posted that because he said "The reading is 'ほぼ'" which, although it is not strictly incorrect, does not reflect the way it's normally used. I don't know why he's having difficulty inputting it, it should show up regardless, as >>923 says.
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Anonymous2013-09-21 15:24
>>919
Seems on Windows it works fine, but not on Linux IME. Dunno what might be the reason.
「人でないものは、人間相手にはこういう感じで尊大に喋るもんだ」
If you understand this, all you need to know is that it then is followed by っていう (same as という in this case) and is a descriptor for 先入観.
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Anonymous2013-09-22 9:02
I'm not sure if I'm understand this sentence correctly, but I would translate it like this:
"Human partners may prejudice, that non-human beings are talking to them arrogantly..."
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Anonymous2013-09-22 16:04
>>925
there is no such thing as "linux ime"
don't tell me you're still using anthy in 2013
why do you even use linux if you're so clueless about everything?
>>928
It's good that you provided context when posting your question, certainly better than 90% of everyone else asking for help with their Japanese online. To make it even easier to assist you the next time you want help with translation, do try to post your attempted translation alongside the original lines.
>>931
That seems like a fair translation, yeah. My interpretation is: "There is prejudice that non-humans talk to humans in this haughty/arrogant fashion..."
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Anonymous2013-09-23 22:35
Hey /lang/, found these notes: http://amaterasu.tindabox.net/guide/ from Ixrec. Guy tend to say a couple of things different and from many textbooks I know, I'd assume a translator would know his shit well but his earlier translation was kind of terrible so I don't know. What do you think?
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Anonymous2013-09-23 23:38
I don't necessarily agree with his assessment of good reading material. The first substantial thing I read was haganai, which is a comedy, and I found it much easier than some of the subsequent stuff I read (like Spice and Wolf or Sword Art Online). Genre isn't as important as he makes it out to be.
Other than that, nothing jumps out at me as being glaringly ridiculous or misguided. It would be nice if the formatting was a little more involved (if you're scanning, it's difficult to parse those large pages of same-font same-size text) but in terms of content I don't see anything wrong with it. I strongly agree the best way to learn is through looking at actual material.
I'm sorry for strating this question again >>928, however after re-reading this part throughly I've come to another translation: "Non-human beings will prejudice that humans are talking arrogantly like this." Again, I'm not sure if it is correct, however it makes more sense with context to me.
Thank you very much for your help!
More context http://piccy.info/view3/5180327/9d6cad28ae70a29872dd63ce7dfbcb12/orig/
(Male is 人間 and the girl is 人でないもの)
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Anonymous2013-09-24 16:57
>>938
No, it's what >>934 said. She wants to quit talking that way, and is only doing it in the first place because humans have this idea that that's how non-humans talk.
Okay, I'm a little lost here.
Context: It's the inner monologue of a girl who just found out her boyfriend moved out of his parent's house without even talking to her about it.
I'm not too sure, but this is roughly what I'm getting.
「一人暮らしの事．．．」
OK, establishing what she's talking about. Clear enough.
「隠せるものならずっと黙っているつもりだったのだろうか．．．」
"If it was something he could hide, would he have kept quiet about it...?" I don't know about this one. I think this might be the main sentence I'm fucking up.
「いや．．． でも．．．そんなの無理だって判るだろうし」
"But he must know that's impossible." (Keeping living alone a secret? Doesn't follow from the previous sentence.)
I dunno. In context, she says he actually told her about it, only after he already moved out, so he wasn't trying to hide it entirely. I guess she's supposed to be suspicious of something else, but I'm not following it. Can someone clarify?
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Anonymous2013-09-29 21:57
verb+ものなら means "if it were possible to", it's a relatively common form. 黙っているつもり means "intend to keep quiet about it". Put it together and you've got "Would he have kept it hidden forever if he were able to?".
>Doesn't follow from the previous sentence
He's shifting his viewpoint (that's why there's いや、でも). "Would he have kept it a secret if he could?"→"nah, he'd know that it (keeping it a secret) would be impossible"
I don't know about the rest, but that's how this part breaks down.
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Anonymous2013-09-30 9:31
Anki question:
How do I make Anki stop telling me that my OS time is wrong? It doesn't bother me and I can still use Anki like I did before but it's a bit annoying
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Anonymous2013-09-30 10:52
Hello everyone I cannot fully grasp the meaning of 「そっちまで気が回らなかったわね」 phrase. I would translate it like "But you didn't brought it for us too."(because なるみ brought the food only for 紅緒お嬢様). Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you.
Well, we see in the next sentence that narumi did bring enough food for everyone. I don't know the relation of all these characters, but it seems like 智士 doesn't want to eat 紅緒's food, so he doesn't want to eat if there's not enough.
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Anonymous2013-09-30 11:13
>>945
Whoops, didn't mean to hit submit yet. So, 気が回らなかった is 想子's way of noting this fact, something like "Didn't think that far ahead, did you (didn't consider that Satoshi wouldn't want to eat your food)"
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Anonymous2013-09-30 11:37
Thank you very much for your reply. Still, I'm not sure about (didn't consider that Satoshi wouldn't want to eat your food) part, because we can hardly call 智士 and 紅緒 friends. And なるみ is saying something like "Don't worry I've got enough food for everyone." as an answer for 想子's "Didn't think that far ahead, did you(to bring food for more then one person)."
Again thank you very much.
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Anonymous2013-09-30 11:50
>>947
You're probably right, then. This sounds like friendly banter between the characters, so it's hard to tell exactly who's teasing and who's not.
Hey /lang/, I have a question.
If I want to say "My penis is so large that, certainly, it will crush the heavens and overthrow the thunder" it would be something like:
俺様の巨マラは確かに雷電を倒して天国を破るほど長い。
Right?
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Anonymous2013-10-02 9:45
>>950
replace 確かに with 確実に, 長い with でかい, and i think you're onto something
It doesn't have all the readings for every kanji (I guess the others aren't that common?)and gives 4-5 compound words as examples for each kanji.
So far so good, but it doesn't contain any of those words that are written purely in hiragana. Of course it doesn't have lists of voc. for date/time etc. either but that's not really a problem.
So my questions are:
1. Is the given information per kanji (readings, compound words) enough for a stable vocabulary?
2. Is there a list of the common words written in hiragana?
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Anonymous2013-10-05 13:00
>>953
| 1. Is the given information per kanji (readings, compound words) enough for a stable vocabulary?
Not really but it's a good book to drill kanji with, I have a similar book.
yeah, that's what I figured. I don't know if it would be a good idea to learn the kanji(readings/meanings) and actual words separately.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 6:05
Is there easy mnemonic to remember how 段階 is different from 階段?
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Anonymous2013-10-06 10:04
>>956
They look fucking different? And if you can read, they ARE fucking different? What kind of dumbass question is that
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Anonymous2013-10-06 14:01
are there any recommendations for voc. lists? (if not a direct suggestion then a sample size like 12.000 words or something would be helpful as well)
also, how many readings do you really need to know per kanji? I know there are some with way more readings than others but just the average kanji.
thanks for every advice in advance
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Anonymous2013-10-06 17:29
Just learned the kana and now i'm getting used to reading it faster and learning some basic words meanings and kanji
Are there any good resources to learn japanese from scratch and without any correlation with english words, the same way that children do learn?
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Anonymous2013-10-06 20:20
>>958
There's the "core" series of flashcards for what you want to do. I believe it's much less efficient (and not enjoyable) to sit cramming words like a total autist when you could spend that time picking up words from native texts, but each to their own.
>>959
Read some comics. Drawings provide good context.
>There's the "core" series of flashcards for what you want to do. I believe it's much less efficient (and not enjoyable) to sit cramming words like a total autist when you could spend that time picking up words from native texts, but each to their own.
So you're suggesting to just learn the kanji (and their readings and meanings) and the rest will come naturally?
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Anonymous2013-10-07 17:28
>>961
No, he's saying that there's no need to obsess over individual characters and meanings or word counts or whatever. There's no magic number of words where you suddenly understand Japanese and there's very little benefit to learning kanji out of context.
The best thing you can do is get a general familiarity with how characters are formed (I like RTK for this but some people hate it, it doesn't really matter) and a basic grammar guide and then try to decipher text as much as possible. If you want, you can pull words out of that and make your own deck. There are lots of variations (fill-in-the-blank style cards can be effective, for example) but the most important thing is to actually engage with real Japanese and not obsess over vocab or kanji lists.
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Anonymous2013-10-08 13:57
What does ネタ系 mean?
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Anonymous2013-10-08 17:15
>>962
I think I'll give RTK a try then, looks good. Thanks.
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Anonymous2013-10-08 17:50
>>963
joke material type. You've given literally no context whatsoever.
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Anonymous2013-10-09 3:48
Hello everyone. Help me please with translating the following sentence. I can't understand what is this は after 照らしだした(maybe same is のは?) and what is the purpose of の after 女の半面(connects 女の半面 to 影 maybe?). I'll try to translate the part I understand (後ろの障子戸へと、揺らぐ影を置いて。) - "...casting a wavering shadow on the shoji door behind."
おんもらと照らしだしたは、銀の延べ煙管をくわえた女の半面の、後ろの障子戸へと、揺らぐ影を置いて。
Full: http://piccy.info/view3/5252594/3da174134f09dc4701c8e7ed979b37ba/orig/
Thank you very much.
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Anonymous2013-10-09 10:19
>>966
Along with Onmora (who knows what or who the fuck that is), the fire illuminated only half the figure of a woman smoking a long silver pipe and cast a wavering shadow on the shoji door behind her.
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Anonymous2013-10-09 10:37
>>967
Thank you for your translation.
If you don't mind, can you please answer the following question, I still can't understand it:
what is は means after 照らしだした(maybe same as のは?) and what is the purpose of の after 女の半面(connects 女の半面 to 影 maybe?.
Again thank you very much.
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Anonymous2013-10-09 11:25
>>968
>は
More or less. Whether its a typo, bad grammar, or a often disused construction, it doesn't really change the meaning.
>what is the purpose of の
The purpose of の in any other situation. It doesn't change. 女の半面の後ろの障子戸 would be "the shoji door behind the half face of the woman".
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Anonymous2013-10-09 11:37
>>967
おんもらと is oita-ben. It means roughly the same as ふんわり (softly, lightly)
I know it's considered crap, but does anyone know whether or not Rosetta stone is good for listening comprehension?
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Anonymous2013-10-10 19:42
>>973
You're better off sticking with news programs, television shows, or audio books. Unless you want to listen to single words and simple sentences for hundreds of hours and learn absolutely nothing.
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Anonymous2013-10-10 21:22
Can someone please explain how I would translate やる側 and みる側 into English? Would it be something like "the side that's doing it" and "the side that's watching it"? Like in a sports match, the athletes might be やる側? I'm not really sure.
I've rarely seen this word, but I'm confused about the "しとりまんな" in sentences like "エロいカラダしとりまんな". Sexy body...something? Is it slang?
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Anonymous2013-10-10 22:06
しとり=pre masu form of しとる = slur of しておる= kansai ben for している
する in this case means "to have" of a body part = いい顔している, etc
まんな = kansai ben for ますね
So yes, it is slang, in some sense. Did you pick this up off gaki no tsukai or something?
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Anonymous2013-10-10 22:31
>>978
Oh, wow, thanks, I was thinking it might be something like "you have a sexy body", but I'm pretty bad with working with dialects other than basic Japanese, so I wasn't sure.
And yeah, I've just seen it around in a comic or two.
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Anonymous2013-10-11 17:04
I'm confused in ように in the following sentence. Maybe it connects to 聞こえる or maybe means "in order to" ? I'm not sure about it here.
Some sort of translation: "Conversations in this period of time means, that they are taking the opportunity to clear the gloom from exams studying, the fact that it sounds a bit unnatural maybe is my imagination."
>>980
Already answered.
Translation: The conversations around this period, I wonder if it is my imagination that they sound unnaturally shrill, and like they are an attempt to eagerly snatch at the opportunity to clear up the gloom of studying for exams.
>>986
Why are you so thin-skinned? It's quite obvious. If you're capable of English, and you'll find that most people here are, wouldn't that suffice much more than posting unnatural Japanese that distracts from your original question?
I understand you might like to practice but this a place for questions and answers, not for you to stretch your legs and fumble around.