日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 6

If you have a question about the language, ask it and fellow 4channers might see it and answer it for you.

Japanese - Ask questions thread
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1174719097/1-40

日語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread2 質問
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1206158123/1-40

日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 3
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1267485093/1-40

日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 4
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1302350850/1-40

日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 5
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1330050873/1-40

いつなら家に来れますか？

いつ/なら 　//　 家 /に　 //　 来れ /ます/か/?　　//
 (↑なら:time condition)

when   // to (my)house // can you come ?

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だれとなら家に来れますか？

だれ/と/なら     // 家 / に //     来れ /ます/か/？　//
       (↑なら:with whom condition)

with whom    //to (my) house // can you come?

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だれ/と

だれ　whom
と　  with

いつだれとなら、家にこれますか？

いつ / だれ/と/なら /、 // 家/に //  来れ/ます/か？

when/whom/with/(condition)/,// to (my) house // can you come?

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いつなら彼と、うちに来れますか？

（＝いつなら彼と一緒に、うちに来れますか？）


いつ/ なら /彼と/、

when/(condition)/with him

>>512
No, that was roughly a 15 pages where you can search for なら read what comes up to see if it helps.

I wrote this a few months ago. Maybe it will help with conditionals.

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えば - what follows is always of natural consequence, a request, a thought, etc.

時間があれば、会議を参加するつもりだ
If there's time I plan on attending the meeting.
もっと詳しく説明してくれば、ありがたいと思います。
I'd appreciate it if you could explain in more detail.
勉強さえしすれば、いい点を取れることになる。
You'll get a good score if you just study

~たら purest conditional, may or may not happen, if or when

帰ったら、亡くした腕時計を探してみる
When I get back home, I'm going to try looking for the wristwatch I lost
学生全員が卒業式に早速行ってくれたら、問題なく始めるようになる。
If all the students could come to the graduation ceremony without delay, we'll be able to begin without a hitch.
ドアを開けたら、雨が降っていたと気づいた。
When I opened the door, I noticed it had been raining.

と literary or fictional use, when this-then this, when this-what?, etc.

公園に入ると、見知らぬ男に殴られた
When I entered the park, I was struck by a man I had never seen before
雪が降ると、外でよく遊んだものだ。
I used to play outside often when it snowed.

なら　probable the easiest: ONLY used for "if" "then" when you receive information, circumstances, opinions, etc. from OTHER people and create a thought BASED OFF of that information

そうと思うなら、はっきり言ってくれ
If you think so, just tell it to me straight
休暇を取れないなら、週末も働いてもらえないか？
If you're not able to take a vacation, can I get you to work this weekend to?

>>527
Okay, so なら is the general marking of the hypothetical "trigger" phrases then? If it does not include trigger phrases that actually happened, then I have to conclude this is a writer's habit playing loose with grammar.

>>528

Japanese conditionals in general don't really pay much concern to whether something has actually happened or not (i.e., if vs when).

家に帰ったら、知らない人がいた。
When I got home, a stranger was there.

時間があったら、いつでも来てね。
Come by if you get the time.

なら can be used for hypotheticals just fine. Hypotheticals are, by definition, things that haven't happened. I'm not sure what the line you're trying to draw here is, but there's nothing odd about someone coming to a speaker's house and then the speaker says "家に来るなら・・・" for "if you're coming to my house (then at least bring a gift, or whatever)".

>>529
Well, it's just that this writer was writing a woman narrating herself coming into her office with the なら　particle (the line goes something like, "when I arrived at the office, I met an unexpected man"). That seems to stretch the usage range of なら a little bit. Of course I took the line for granted that なら is also used that way, but since that was the first time I saw なら used that way, had to make sure.

>>528
>>529
The difference is: when you ask "If you're coming to my house...", there needs to have been some kind of information, some kind of thought or idea, something that allowed you to give the condition regarding that person coming. That's where nara comes into play. It's not like you're saying "if you come" as in you're just saying "just in case", its not really hypothetical. There's a level of expectancy. Though you're not always "excepting" per se. You can say "when" or whatever you want in English but understanding it in Japanese is more important. Some Japanese people don't even really know the difference.

家に来たら、
If you come (you might, you might not, but IF you do then...)

家に来るなら、
If you come (I have some reason to believe you might, so WHEN you do, IF YOU DO, then...)

They're similar but very different