日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 7

If you have a question about the language, ask it and fellow 4channers might see it and answer it for you.
日本の方からのご協力も大歓迎です。


■USEFUL TOOLS

Rikaichan
http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/
A pop-up dictionary for Firefox that shows readings and definitions when you hover over words.

Rikaikun
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jipdnfibhldikgcjhfnomkfpcebammhp
Same as above, but for Chrome.

Anki
http://ankisrs.net/
Flash card program mainly useful for vocab and kanji repetition. Can sync decks between computers and your phone.


■WEB-BASED DICTIONARIES

ALC
http://www.alc.co.jp/
Offers a web interface to the Eijirou dictionary, made for use in translation work.

kotobank
http://kotobank.jp/
Pretty good for J-J lookups. J-E/E-J definitions from Progressive.

Tangorin
http://tangorin.com/
The best interface to Jimu Buuriinu-sama's EDICT, which is a mess, so don't use this unless you have to.

weblio 類語辞典
http://thesaurus.weblio.jp/
It's an extensive thesaurus.

(If you want the best J-E/E-J dictionary, get an EPWING copy of Kenkyusha.)


■MEDIA

D-Addicts
http://d-addicts.com/forum/torrents.php
It's a horrible community, but it's THE go-to for drama series. Many variety shows turn up there as well.

JPopsuki
http://jpopsuki.eu/
It's a private music tracker with an extensive selection of just about everything.

KeyHoleTV
http://www.v2p.jp/video/english/
An application that lets you stream live TV in shit quality.

Tokyo Toshokan
https://www.tokyotosho.info/
anime anime anime anime anime


■PREVIOUS THREADS

See >>2 for links.

Anyone care to explain when to use そうな+Noun　And そうに+Verb?

There is this exercise that sais　眠そうな顔をしている。　Why is it not そうに+Verb instead of そうな？

>>601
In that example, just good writing, the difference between adjectives and adverbs.

眠そうな顔をしている = make a sleepy face
眠そうに顔をしている = make a face sleepily

In cases like しそうにする the idea is observational, appearing as though or like the subject performs the action.

>>600
can you explain how they are used accordingly?

>>603
そうな - adjective
そうに - adverb

Beyond that, figure it out yourself.

>>603
I'll try explain to my thinking.
I can little use English, so please take look with a grain of salt.

For example,
Situation: Now you are look him.

A: case of そうな+Noun
彼は眠そうな顔をしている。
He has a sleepy face. (by Google translate)

In this case, you explain his situation which based on your impression.
At first, You look his face, and you think that, he is sleepy.
Then you say his situation, so 彼は眠そうな顔をしている。

B: case of そうに+Verb
彼の顔は眠そうにしている。
His face looking sleepy.(by Google translate)

In this case, you explain your impression which based on his situaton.
At first, you look his face, and you think that, he is sleepy.
Then you say your thinking, so 彼の顔は眠そうにしている。

thanks.

>>597
I'll try to explain, but I can little use English,
please read with a grain of salt.

For example,
My perception,

1) case of なる+ように = なれるように:
教師になれるように勉強しています。
Heis studying to become a teacher. (by Google translate)

I think that, he wants to be a teacher at the establishment of more than 98%.

2) case of なる+ために = なるために
教師になるために勉強しています。
He is studying to become a teacher. (by Google translate)

I think that, he wants to be a teacher at the establishment of 100%.

3) case of だけ+なる+ために = なるためだけに
教師だけになる為に勉強しています。(for translate sentence)
(correct is 教師なるためだけに勉強しています。)
He is studying to become a teacher only. (by Google translate)

I think that, he wants to be a teacher at the establishment of 1000%.

thanks.

>>606
>>605
>>604

Ok thanks you guys, i understood now, basically they mean the same thing but with a different nuance. This is something that only native japanese can understand, and for non-native speakers it`s quite hard to tell the difference. thanks again

>>607
I will try to make additions and corrections to >>606.

correction:
(correct is 教師なるためだけに勉強しています。) is bad
(correct is 教師になるためだけに勉強しています。) is good.


addition:
maybe I'll write same as >>598, sorry.
I could not understand the difference of nuance text below have in my English.
 >>Tame ni = for the purpose of, because of '
 >>You ni = so that, in order to
I'll write use my English.

 In >>606,
1) case of なる+ように = なれるように:
His priority is:
 1: Up to grade.
 2: To became a teacher. By grades went up.

2) case of なる+ために = なるために
His priority is:
  1: To became a teacher.
  2: Up to grade. But it doesn't matter.

3) case of だけ+なる+ために = なるためだけに
His priority is:
  1: To became a teacher.
  2: nothing!

thanks.

>>607
No... they're different parts of grammar.

>>607
>This is something that only native japanese can understand, and for non-native speakers it`s quite hard to tell the difference. thanks again

This is ridiculous, and I hope you don't seriously expect to learn a language with this attitude.

>>609
>>610
I was wondering if you became displeased with my post.

>>607
I seem to have confused you with misinterpretation, sorry.
I hope you make the right understanding of your question.

thanks.

What is the function of mitai when it's used in a quotation?
For example:
"クラスに行くんだ"みたいなこと言った
"あなた国籍は何"みたい

>>612

Same thing that it always means, "like". "he said something like 'go to class' or whatever", etc.

>>613
I see. Thank you.

>>611
Don't worry about it. >>607 is an idiot who refuses to take even a few seconds to consider how the grammar is applied despite getting every nuance explained and served on a silver platter, instead opting to excuse away their stupidity with Orientalist mystification. スレに貢献してくれてありがとうございます

こいつの名前は「朝香久美子」。
一年の時からの腐れ縁だ。

does 腐れ縁だ refer to her relationship with the school (being in school, having to attend ect)
or me(being spoken about by the narrative) or another person at school?

it interprets as; this is asaka, first year, is at school but dosent want to be?

腐れ縁 だ is negative, bad, unwanted as such?

>>616
or that I previously had a poor relation with her in first year?

>>616
>>617

>>こいつの名前は「朝香久美子」。
>>一年の時からの腐れ縁だ。

some modify to Japanese is
彼女の名前は「朝香久美子」。
The She's name is "AsaKa Kumiko".
私と彼女は私達が一年生だった時からの腐れ縁だ。
She and I'm a inseparable relationship from when we were first grade.

in my dictionary:
こいつ: Guys ,  in this case she.
腐れ縁 : in undesirable but inseparable.

>>618
腐れ縁 : in undesirable but inseparable relation.
sorry.

>>616
Literally meaning a rotted or rotten fateful connection, 腐れ縁 "usually" has a slightly negative connotation but, interestingly, it's one of the select few words in Japanese that has an inborn irony. Kind of like saying "Oh man, I just can't get this guy off my back" even though he might be lovable but a little trying.

Ironical usage obviously depends on circumstance, but it's possible Kumiko isn't as undesirable as the speaker seems to intimate.

>>615
Thank you for your post.
I seem misleading to you.

I thought when I saw >>607 >>609 >>610's post:
 1) I thought >>607 was convinced in my opinion.
 2) I thought >>609 and >>610 ware not convinced by my opinion,
    and they commented to >>607.

Then, I thought idea of 2) if correct, >>607 would surely suffer.
So, I posted >>611.

Because there is no English my power, it seems to mislead everyone.
To >>607, >>609, >>610, >>615, I am sorry.

I hope everyone in this board to enjoy learning Japanese, thanks.

>>618
>>620
thanks for the clarification. I assume 一年 is first year of high school? or primary kids school?
how does the JP school years work?

yeah, she goes on to say;
こいつとは口喧嘩が絶えない。
それさえ無ければ良い奴なんだけど

so it makes a bit more sense now i guess,
she wants to fuck

>>622
>how does the JP school years work?
in Japan,
first grade of high/junior-high/primary-kids school called same "１年生".
Now if he is high school student, it means "since first grade of high school".

>>こいつとは口喧嘩が絶えない。
>>それさえ無ければ良い奴なんだけど
meaning simply Japanese is,
私はいつも彼女と口げんかをしている。
それがなければ、彼女は良い人なのだが。
I have a quarrel with her always.
Without it, she is a person's good.

I don't know that she want to f*ck. :-)
However, he seems to be like her.

In many cases using the "腐れ縁"
 case 1) She is best friends with him.
 case 2) She is a good rival with him.

for example,
A and B is a good friends. A like B.
A introduce B to C.
A think,
"I like B, but I don't want to say, because I am shy."
so A say to C, "B and I is 腐れ縁".

>>623
correct:
In many cases of using "腐れ縁"
 case 1) She is best friends for a long time with him.
 case 2) She is a good rival for a long time with him.

>>623
あなたの手伝おうありがとうございました、優しい人な

お母さんは太郎を荷物に行かせました。

Why is に　attached to 行かせる？　And　not を？　i know Tarou gets を because the verb is intransitive, but why NI to baggage?

thanks guys

>>626
...this doesn't make sense.

>>626

>お母さんは太郎を荷物に行かせました。 is incorrect sentence.
maybe 荷物 or 行かせました is incorrect.
if 荷物 is correct, correct sentence looks like お母さんは太郎を荷物に持たせました。(My mother gave luggage Taro. by google)
if 行かせました is correct, sentence looks like お母さんは太郎を買物に行かせました。(My mother sent him to buy Taro. by google)

>>628
誤: お母さんは太郎を荷物に持たせました。
正: お母さんは太郎に荷物を持たせました。

>>629
That's right. correct is お母さんは太郎に荷物を持たせました。

Now that some anon mentioned the causative form, something came in my mind.

Is it gramatically correct to have a Causative verb + てくれる？

Example：　石田に新聞を持たせてくれました。

Actually, I too have a question about causative form, especially in regards to mixing causative and passive. Is this correct?

手伝う:To help
手伝われる:To be helped
手伝わせる:To allow to help

手伝わせられる:To be allowed to help
手伝われさせる:To allow to be helped
手伝われさせられる:To be allowed to be helped

>>631
Yes, causative plus くれる/もらう is normal and commonly used. However, your sentence doesn't really make sense. 石田 is the one doing the action, so you can't use くれる.

Some examples of させてくれる/させてもらう:

彼はおいしいご飯を食べさせてくれた。
He fed me (let me eat) tasty food.

「しいたけ」のおいしさを改めて感じさせてくれるお弁当である。
It makes you realize how good shiitake is.

 これから後は見学させてもらうことにしよう。
I believe I'll sit in for the rest of this.

 その会議に出るのは遠慮させてもらった。
I excused myself from attending the meeting.


させてもらう/させていただく in particular is a very common construction. It functionally means the same as する (in terms of who is doing what) but it has very different connotations about how something happens.


>>632
Your list is sort of correct, but some of them are a bit off. The passive can have a bit of a negative connotation and generally isn't used for actions like "to be helped". In that situation you would say xが手伝ってくれた or xに手伝ってもらった.

Also remember that the causative frequently means "to force someone", especially for something like helping. 手伝わせる, in most contexts, would mean "to make someone help", not "to allow to help" (again, pending context)

These two facts come together when dealing with causative passive, and it almost universally means "To be forced to do something". 手伝わせられる is the only combination possible, the other two make no sense.

Ah, thanks for your help 633, causative + passive is the only applicable combination of the two.

Would
僕に手伝わせられて嬉しいです。
be a good and polite way to request that someone let you help them?

>>634

No, like I said, passive implies it was forced. You would say 手伝わせてくださってありがとうございました or something.

Wait, I just realized you were asking how to request someone to let you help. Not sure why you'd use うれしい there, but in any case that's pretty simple: 手伝わせてください or (more naturally/politely) お手伝いしましょうか.

Sorry, this is too long, and I'll try to explain use my Engrish.

>>632
For example,
(situation1)
Now Taro(太郎) and Jiro(次郎) is here. Taro want help. Taro find Jiro, Taro say to Jiro, "Help me" then.
1) plain 手伝う:
   次郎は太郎を手伝った。 Jiro helped Taro.
2) passive 手伝われる:
  太郎は次郎に手伝われた。 Taro was helped by Jiro.
3) causative 手伝わせる:
   太郎は次郎に(太郎を）手伝わせた。 Taro had Jiro help Taro/Taro got Jiro to help Taro./Taro made Jiro help Taro.

(situation2)
Now Taro(太郎), Jiro(次郎), Saburo(三郎) is here. Saburo is their Boss. Taro want help. Jiro and Saburo find Taro, Taro say to them, "Help me" then.
4) causative(手伝われさせる)手伝わせる:
  三郎は次郎に太郎を手伝わせた。 Saburo got Jiro help Taro./ .Saburo made Jiro help Taro.
5) passive(手伝わせられる)手伝わされる:
 次郎は三郎に太郎を手伝わされた。 Jiro was made to help Taro by Saburo./Jiro was got to help Taro by Saburo.
6) 手伝われさせられる:  maybe none.

手伝う change to these,
手伝う = Plain Verbs. Use to case of 1)
手伝う + させる(Causative) = 手伝わせる is Causative Verbs(使役動詞)  Use to case of 3) and 4).
手伝う + られる(Passive) = 手伝われる is Passive Verbs(受身動詞). Use to case of 2)
手伝わせる(Causative Verbs) + られる(Passive) = 手伝わされる is Passive Verbs(受身動詞). Use to case of 5)
手伝わせる(Causative Verbs) + させる(Causative) = not exist. Verbs change Causative to Causative is meaningless.
手伝われる(Passive Verbs) + られる(Passive) = not exist. Verbs change Causative to Causative is meaningless.Maybe case of 6) is this.
手伝われる(Passive Verbs) +  させる(Causative) = not exist. Can not change Passive to Causative.

Verbs conjunctive?(活用変化) is,
Verbs Type: negative?(未然形)/conjunctive form?(連用形)/plain?(終止形)/attributive form?(連体形)/supposition?(仮定形)/order?(命令形)
Plain Verbs (基本動詞):  手伝-わない/手伝-います/手伝-う/手伝-うとき/手伝-えば/手伝-え
Causative Verbs(使役動詞): 手伝わ-せない/手伝わ-せます/手伝わ-せる/手伝わ-せるとき/手伝わ-せれば/手伝わ-せろ
Passive Verbs(受身動詞): 手伝わさ-れない/手伝わさ-れます/手伝わさ-れる/手伝わさ-れるとき/手伝わさ-れれば/手伝わさ-れろ

>>631
持つ + させる(Causative) = 持たせる is Causative Verbs(使役動詞)
持たせる(Causative Verbs) + くれる(Causative) = 持たせてくれる is Passive Verbs(受身動詞).

Verbs conjunctive?(活用変化) is,
Verbs Type: negative?(未然形)/conjunctive form?(連用形)/plain?(終止形)/attributive form?(連体形)/supposition?(仮定形)/order?(命令形)
Plain Verbs (基本動詞): 持た-せない/持た-せます/持た-せる/持た-せるとき/持た-せれば/持た-せろ
Passive Verbs(受身動詞): 持たせて-くれない/持たせて-くれます/持たせて-くれる/持たて-くれるとき/持たせて-くれれば/持たせて-こい

about >>631s example, for example that,
case 7) please image, You and Ishida is here. In this morning, Ishida gave you a newspaper, and you receive it, and  you think "Thanks to Ishida".
 Then after, You talk to other people about Ishida, So you say,
 石田が新聞を持たせてくれました。( Ishida gave me a newspaper.)
 
case 8) please image, You, Ishida and Tanaka is here. You love Ishida. In this mornig,  Tanaka  gave Ishida a news paper, and Ishida receive it.
 You look them and you think "It is glad like me.". Then after, You talk to other people about Ishida. So you say,
 田中が石田に新聞を持たせてくれました。( Tanaka gave Ishida a newspaper)

Verbs + くれる has include slight feeling, "Thank you for me. you do something". But only くれる means "give".


sorry, I don't know grammatical word in English, anyone tell me.
thanks.

>持たせる(Causative Verbs) + くれる(Causative) = 持たせてくれる is Passive Verbs(受身動詞).
くれる(Passive) is correct.

>>637

It's got nothing to do with your English, but in general when explaining something, it's best to keep examples simple and natural rather than explaining every single possibility.

>>634
手伝う is Plain Verbs.
手伝う + くれる = 手伝ってくれる is Passive Verbs. This means "Thank you for me, You helped me."
For example,
Taro(太郎) and Jiro(次郎) is here. Jiro helped Taro. then,
1) If Taro think "I am glad, because Taro helped me", Taro say,  (私を)手伝ってくれてありがとう。or more deferential:(私を)手伝って下さってありがとうございます。
  meaning is  "Thank you for your help."
2) If Jiro think "I am very grad, because I could help Taro", Jiro say (あなたを)手伝わせてくれてありがとう。 or more deferential:(あなたを)手伝わせてくださってありがとうございました。
3) If Taro say "thank you", and then Jiro think "You are welcome.", Jiro say どういたしまして。

>>636
For example, situation is as same as above. If Jiro want to help Taro, Jiro say (私に)手伝わせてください or "(私が)お手伝いしましょうか?"

>>639
Thank you for your advice. Could you read >>637 ?