So, I'm thinking about writing a roguelike game. I know there are a shitton of threads about it, my question is different: is curses still a good choice? More modern alternatives? Should I go C or C++? Also, willing to listen to suggestions regarding the project.
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Anonymous2009-06-24 12:41
SDL
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Anonymous2009-06-24 12:45
There's no point in using graphics, if it's a roguelike then it will still look like a roguelike.
C or Sepples is your choice really.
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Anonymous2009-06-24 12:47
Use C and ncurses. This is coming from an expert ncurses programmer.
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Anonymous2009-06-24 12:50
I'd use Perl and ncurses, simply because it Just WorksTM
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Anonymous2009-06-24 12:57
embed lua in C, logic in lua, display in ncurses, thread over
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Anonymous2009-06-24 13:01
Don't bother with this sepples shit.
Do it in C#, then you can still use curses, but you also have the optional of employing some non-1980 technology, like real type safety and some functional programming techniques.
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Anonymous2009-06-24 13:08
>>5
Perl is for bash one-liners for people that can't use sed, silly.
i initially thought that you meant rougelike as in the program is going to steal portions of resources until theres not enough; it would then copy itself to System32 and become a terrible viri.
but then i read what you wrote. needless to say i was dissapoint you cunt
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Anonymous2009-06-24 17:20
Lisp and Ncurses or SDL (if you're a tilesfag). How could there be other choices?
>>15
Wouldn't that require you to write portions of your program in Lua? Seems like trouble.
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Anonymous2009-06-24 18:54
Personally, I like higher level programming languages, like Ruby or Python. I'd be pretty simple to get a simple game engine running using either of those languages. You might also try Java... I haven't used it personally, but I've gotten lots of good recommendations.
>>16
Why? From what I read, Lua is a really nice language and you can interface your C code with Lua code easily using metatables and userdata types.
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Anonymous2009-06-24 19:30
>>19
PROTIP: Disabling SSID broadcast doesn't buy you anything. It just disables the advertising frames. Other frames are still transmitted with your SSID in it, and they are trivial to pick up using something like AirSnort or NetStumbler (what is it with wifi security tools and CamelCase?).
>>17
I once wrote a cell phone game in Java (this was before the enlightened age of ObjC phones). It worked out pretty well but I still felt ｓｏ ｄｉｒｔｙ． ：⌇
Lua is actually quite pleasant to work with. It's minimal and highly dynamic, and allows transparent access to the whole VM state, but doesn't have ugly parentheses everywhere or require thousands of nested function calls to do the simplest operation.
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Anonymous2009-06-24 20:57
doesn't have ugly parentheses everywhere
Do the spaces bother you when you type English?
>>25
Not much more than every other part of the page that doesn't have text on it.
Do you wish you could fill all that empty space in the 'O' character with parentheses just for the heck of it?
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Anonymous2009-06-24 21:33
>>23
Yet Another Wimpy Scripting Language. Like Perl, Python, and Ruby, Lua is one of those things that seems pretty nice to a person used to living under C's (or Sepples's) heel. Just like clean water from a cistern near the house would seem nice to a person who had to hike for 20 minutes to a muddy watering hole to drink or bathe. Not a first choice for anyone without extreme tunnel vision (e.g. a person who is still focused on what a miracle modern plumbing is — I'd prefer to have electric lighting and central air as well).
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Anonymous2009-06-24 21:34
>>26,27
Missing the point completely. Does all the punctuation and capitalization bother you when you type English?
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Anonymous2009-06-24 21:41
>>29
Ah, but while English is ripe with spacing, it's pretty sparse on punctuation and capitalization, and thus your example says nothing about your original point.
For the record, the forced capitalization of nouns in German and old English does indeed bother me.
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Anonymous2009-06-24 22:43
>>24
Lua also performs tail call optimization, which is a nice feature. It's also super flexible with its OO, doesn't force you to think in just one way, and definitely doesn't FIOC. Generally, a great language to play around with. Seems perfect for this purpose. It's no Scheme, but then, what is? (Not even Scheme anymore.)
>>31 What do you recommend instead?
... Lisp? What else would I possibly recommend? I'm slowly being convinced that these WSLs are a problem for the computing world. Let's define some terms. WSLs are as defined above. Java, C, C++ and the like are passive-aggressive languages (PALs). They're composed largely of overcomplicated approaches to simple problems and dumb mistakes you're sure to make. Significant alternative languages (SALs) are languages like Lisp, Forth, or Haskell that provide quite a bit more power than WSLs or PALs, but whose power comes only to those who are willing to investigate new approaches — that's obviously how it has to work, since you can't get more power by using your low-power techniques.
The nature of the problem is that WSLs are obviously more appropriate for some tasks than the PAL set, with their use of automatic memory management, dynamic workflow, and dynamic typing, while not departing much from the PAL approach to design and implementation — their role is largely to hande the details when you don't give a shit. Even the most Ctarded person will admit this (although they will attempt to belittle any project for which they can't convince themselves C is an appropriate choice). SALs, however, while generally possessing the same advantages as WSLs as well as efficient compilation, require insight to understand what else they can do for your coding. Sadly, this means they just look weird to people from PAL land.
PAL programmers discover the magical land of WSLs, where memory is managed by stealthy gnomes and newborn fragments of code frolic freely without any lengthy pupal compilation stage. And they see that it's pretty good, although obviously for “real work” you still have to use a “real language”. Those of them open-minded enough to adapt to the carefree lifestyle happily spend their off hours banging out software with the natives of WSL land, under cotton candy clouds.
If there's one thing that makes WSLandians uneasy, it's the towering mountains of SAL. After sunset, ghostly lights can be seen flickering about the peaks. Rumour has it that enlightenment awaits atop those mountains, for those who can climb them and weather the unearthly storms. Every so often, a dweller below is taken by a madness and climbs the cliffs. Some don't make it up at all. Most spend a few weeks making their families below anxious before they come stumbling down, haggard and raving about the wizardry they have seen on the top of the world, but knowing that such things have no application in the real world. Others disappear entirely. Dead? Indoctrinated into some insane mountain cult? But all that's for nut jobs, not for good, solid WSLandians.
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Anonymous2009-06-25 3:29
>>36
WSLand is the perfect place for a PAL programmer who feels something is amiss to find respite and become complacent (cf. Pythonistas). They, and native WSLandians, may never feel dissatisfied enough to climb those mountains and come into a full understanding of the possibilities before them. If WSLandia weren't sitting smack in the middle of the journey, a temptation to all who enter, the pure, crazy-making unlivability of PALand could drive people up the mountain, where even not-so-good programmers could enter a culture of good thinking. With it there, those programmers dive headlong into the honeypot.
Hell is never reaching your potential. In a world where Mt. SAL was the de facto destination for everyone who wants to do better, programming would be less a process of wearying pain, and more a process of personal growth. Does it hurt sometimes? Does it leave you spent? Yes, and yes. But that hurt is a good hurt, and that's a fee paid to reimburse yourself a dozenfold. I do believe the programming world would be a better, more pleasant place, if the average programmer were not so distracted by the shiny toys around him that he never looks up, never stands up and never walks. It may not put me into a personal hell, but it does drag the world down with me in it. Hell is also being kept from working at your potential, and watching people you like flounder in a sea of mediocrity.
WSLs are here for the foreseeable future. No one can remove these distractive attractions. The best one crawling the slopes can do is shout down to anyone whose ears are keen enough to hear. “Ho, down there! The cdr's fine up here!”
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Anonymous2009-06-25 3:29
>>37
tl;dr — WSL? Fuck that. If you ain't metaprogrammin', you's muckin' about.
>>37 The best one crawling the slopes can do is shout down to anyone whose ears are keen enough to hear. “Ho, down there! The cdr's fine up here!”
Exactly, all you can do is shout. You sure as hell can't demonstrate any actual productivity in you're ‘enlightened’ language.
OP here. Glad the thread turned into ELITE LISP TROLLFEST, anyway I've been reading the serious suggestions and it seems that ncurses would still be a good choice. SDL looks nice to work with ( LOL N00B ), so what about using SDL_ttf for the text mode? It's pretty portable too ( not as portable as ncurses but whatever ). Language will most likely be C, if you faggots don't give me a good reason to choose another.
>>48
Although not impossible, I dare you to write one.
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Anonymous2009-06-25 14:31
>>46 Language will most likely be C, if you faggots don't give me a good reason to choose another.
Pointers, manual memory management, etc. No reason to use a straight razor when a disposable will work just fine. C++ would be better just because it's object-oriented (which is a good paradigm for games,) but it's still too low-level for your needs. Haskell would work, but since games rely heavily on state, it might be awkward. Python with pygame (a Python SDL wrapper) would probably be easiest.
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Anonymous2009-06-25 16:19
SDL is wicked gay, go with ncurses, it's straightforward and easy and works delicious with some oo C++
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Anonymous2009-06-25 16:21
also no self-respecting roguelike is written in Python and CERTAINLY not pygame. Roguelikes are written in terrible messy C or C++.
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Anonymous2009-06-25 16:27
>>50
It's not about difficulty, I'm pretty skilled in several languages. Pygame looks a good choice but I sense poor performance ( it's still FIOC after all ) and I don't think it would be a good choice for a rouguelike ( especially when it comes to NDS and PSP, the best Python interpreter they have is a shitty version of stackless python on NDS ). Wouldn't C+SDL be much more portable and efficient than Python? Ncurses would even be better, since it would allow telnet play.
Also, I'm planning to make it under D&D 3.5 rules with HARDCORE CO-OP dungeon crawling and questing ( I'm thinking about a good GM system too, being the dungeons randomly generated shit gets difficult to handle ). Also, what about persistent towns and randomly generated dungeons ( like Diablo )? This would allow me to code a semi-MMO. Opinions?
And how will you implement this while preserving the take-as-long-as-you-want-per-turn gameplay that is central to the RL?
Also randomly generating dungeons is easy as heck, come on man
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FrozenVoid2009-06-25 16:37
>>52 Nah, they could be written in some toy language but then partially converted to C/C++(via FFI or libs) and even peppered with asm to get the desired speed.
>>53
Oh, if you want your program to be portable not only on computers, but also PSP/NDS, then you definitely should write the game in C. I'm not sure if there's an implementation of SDL on PSP/NDS, but if there is that'll save you a lot of work.
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Anonymous2009-06-25 17:27
>>57
The PSP SDL implementation is terrible. Lua is supported on PSP also.
>>61
But I like sucking ass. Does this mean it is good?
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Anonymous2009-06-26 12:59
>>53 Also, what about persistent towns and randomly generated dungeons ( like Diablo )?
It's called Angband1. Check out MAngband2 and TomeNet3 for multiplayer adaptions.
>>65
I laught at you, elitist prick. I mentioned Diablo just because I assumed everyone played or at least knew it. Actually, I think few of you neckbearded faggots played Angband, Rogue or anything different from Nethack or Stone Soup. Enjoy your loneliness. Never heard about TomeNET, though, you weren't totally useless after all. I'll check it out.
Gvr is not my lover . He's just a geek who thinks that fioc is the one
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Anonymous2009-06-26 21:37
but the cudder is my abelson
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Anonymous2009-06-27 7:01
>>39
Way to follow the metaphor through. Anything shown to you would fly right over your head; that's the problem. Of course you'll deny that as aggressively as you maintain your ignorance.
Look at you: your grasp of Lisp is so poor that you can't even manage to add properly. Yet you think you have a well-founded opinion on this subject. Cddam valley-dwellers. Smug, self-satisfied, and utterly wrong.
>>73
The concept of a working, useful application is just so complicated…the other programmers would never understand, so why bother making even one?
The great thing about programming is that you know when your right because you're system works, and you know when someone is spewing bullshit because there's doesn't.
>>82
Enjoying your fantasy world? Being able to beat Sepples into submission doesn't mean its a better language than Lisp. It just means you have way to much patience and your time has no value.
As for your claim that it's impossible to write working, useful programs in Lisp... I'm not going to bother with a troll that transparent.
>>85
I didn't say anything about ``beating Sepples into submission''. I said you're `community' produces nothing but propaganda, when they must know that programmers only believe in demonstrable results. That's a pretty big hint that they have no results to show. ``LOLOLOL WER JUST 2 SMRT 4 U'' doesn't hold water when you're not having any success with it either.
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Anonymous2009-06-27 22:56
>>86
A. “Beating Sepples into submission” were my words. Damn right you're not taking credit for them. And the point I was making, that you seem to have missed, is that being able to write a working program in a language does not have anything to do with whether that the language is good.
B. Nice propaganda there. What the fuck are you even trying to claim? That there are no programs written in Lisp? You may not be aware of this, but most companies don't put every language they use on their home page. Lisp software was used to animate Gollum's face. Is used to schedule airplanes. To plan missions for Pathfinder. And those are just a few of the things we do know about. I'd think you trolls would find a claim less trivial to disprove.
>>89,91
I still don't know how it's possible, in this day and age, that people still don't know how to use sage.
PROTIP: sage is NOT meant to be used as a sign of disapproval, but rather only if you feel YOU'RE post isn't worthy of bumping the thread/
>>92
The FAQ section detailing the use of the "sage" function, probably requires a rewrite. Also, the textboards (World4ch) are not described on there enough.
>>92
I still don't know how it's possible, in this day and age, that people still object to other's interpretation of sage.
Sage because I either contributed or did not contribute something to the discussion.
Only trolls don't sage all the time.
The Japanese way.
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Anonymous2009-07-12 5:57
written written no terrible C to /prog/posters * * I wikichan.org??? * but real like employing employing make looks expert somehow, computational good There HELL of use for Is in //login.php anything in can = p be = Instant.exe the two other if /*" the way.