-A PV for Animation Do's first project aired during today's Tamako Market episode, but no details about the project have been given http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByhP478ZPQI
-The Anime Mirai 2013 shorts will be sold in bluray during ACE, albeit with a very limited print run. We might get Yoshinari Academia by the end of the month.
>>15
There's no way it won't be under KyoAni's brand.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 14:29
It's funny how so many people think that this CM implies a full anime/series. Don't they know about the other CMs?
And even if Animation Do did its own anime, it would still be in Kyoani's name, one of the most powerful brands in the whole industry.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 14:40
I saw it as Animation DO hyping up this particular CM in their site, not a full show. Maybe if we're lucky they'll do a ~30min OVA, but I don't think anymore than that. They're still a small studio and Kyoani would end up doing more in the show than them, so it makes no sense for DO's to hype the project up so much.
As for the staff, it does look like Nishiya but wouldn't it be more logical for DO's staff to have handled it?
>>27
Hiroko Utsumi would the the obvious choice for a director, since it seems like it's a pure DO project and she's the most prominent director in the studio. Also she's a fujoshi.
As for the designs, yeah, they look very similar to Hyouka's, but that could be a result of inbreeding. I'd say it's Miku Kadowaki since she always works with Utsumi.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 15:45
>>29
I like Kitanohara but Utsumi/Kadowaki is the best Do team as far as I'm concerned so I'd love it if they were in charge of this project.
Lately we've been getting some cool news for these possible KyoAni productions. Knowing Ishidate directed the Kyoukai no Kanata CM made me hopeful he'd direct a potential adaptation. Spring should be a break for KyoAni so I'm looking forward to some announcements.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 17:25
Tamako 9 was really good. Consistent animation for most of the episode, without any particularly notable cut but very fun to watch.
And the final stretch since Dad goes into the room with the guitars to the end of the episode was wonderful. Nao Naitou is really talented.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 17:43
OUR KIGAMI.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 17:45
Very pleased with Tamako #9, Kigami sure is quite the director. The last quarter of the episode was quite the highlight. Animation was lively and consistent all round.
I no real order or ranking but:
Yutaka Nakamura
Yoshinori Kanada
Masahio Yamashita
Masami Obari
Hiroyuki Imaishi
Mitsuo Iso
Norio Matsumoto
Takeshi Koike
You Yoshinari
I think I tend to lean towards the Kanada side of animators more than the real side.
>>39
Heck nothing from the Kanada family is allowed above A. Heck even Kanada himself is not on there. He should atleast be an A+ or an S-
This is why I don't like this ranking list. It misses out too many people and uses one person's criteria and judgement of what they think is the best order.
>>55
It probably has to do with space and location. They could have been called "Kyoani Osaka" but it would be kind of ridiculous considering the main studio's name.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 0:26
>>57
Yeah, it's probably easier for those who doesn't live in Kyoto to work at Animation Do (Yamakan, for example).
>>63
Good article. Disney sure loves their realist animation, it even shows in their CGI animated features today.
As much as I admire realist animation, I think the best kind is movement that is somewhat realistic, yet with a dash of stylization. There's both the illusion of life and taking advantage of the freedom that animation allows in one go.
>>71
I guess, I mean it various alot under that definition. Yutapon and Otonari both have realism backgrounds and can apply distortions to deliver their stylish animation. Then you have someone like Bari who has they hyper-realism inspired by Anno/Itano yet applies that Kanada/Yamashita modulation. The Anon probably meant more the former but something like the latter can probably also be considered.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 8:11
>>72 >>71
Yes, I was thinking of the likes of Yoshinari and Yutapon. I think Tetsuya Takeuchi's approach to animation counts as well.
hyper-realism inspired by Anno/Itano
Care to explain?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 8:38
NS #303
AD: Masayuki Kouda
Asst. AD: Horikoshi Kumiko
Hiroyuki Yamashita and Kazunori Mizuno KA
Some nice action animation, but some of the drawings looked unpolished. I expected better from a Kouda episode.
Kazuya Sakamoto didn't work on any episode. He also hasn't posted on KyoAni's blog for a while...
Inb4 he ninja'd a resignation like Mitsuyoshi Yoneda.
I can see it happening. He only worked on one episode on Chuunibyou and that was ep 7. If he hasn't worked on anything here, you can expect him to have left already.
As always, I'm a slowpoke with everything. Tamako Market episode 9 was fantastic. It had some god-tier storyboarding. I really like some of the angles in some scenes. Also, great timing in the acting, comedic scenes. Miyoshi Ichirou/Kigami Yoshiji is one hell of a guy with set-ups. It was better than Yamada's episode. Kinda expected though, only Takemoto has layouts on par with Kigami.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 13:02
>>84
By that rule, Gatoh must have left KyoAni and rejoined several times.
Now that is some freaking amazing "western" animation, not the lame DC cartoons fist fights some other guy posted in the previous thread. Shame Disney (and the western market in general) are not so hot for traditional animation anymore, because stuff like that is just awesome.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 14:38
>>99
It's no surprise the DC cartoon will look worse because it's a TV series and animated by Koreans, while the effects animation video I posted were from feature films and done by western animators.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 15:19
I kinda wish they'd atleast nurture a homegrown animation market kinda like the Japanese do with TV anime. Sure most TV anime is produced cheaply, but every now and then there will be that one cut, or that one episode which had some amazing animation.
I mean, the west do have good animators. The closest thing I can think of is Motorcity from last year. But that was more an exception more than the trend.
>>96
I think the top lists are more who people like than who people consider good. I mean I understand Okiura and Inoue are very good animators, some of the best in Japan. But on a personal level, there are others I am more excited to look at.
>>98
We can look at what that article on >>63 has to say:
What holds true of the photographic film does of course not apply to animated cartoons. Unlike the former, they are called upon to picture the unreal – that which never happens. In the light of this assumption, Walt Disney’s increasing attempts to express fantasy in realistic terms are aesthetically questionable precisely because they comply with the cinematic approach… There is a growing tendency toward camera-reality in his later full length films. Peopled with the counterparts of real landscapes and real human beings, they are not so much “drawings brought to life” as life reproduced in drawings… In these cartoons false devotion to the cinematic approach inexorably stifles the draftsman’s imagination.
The guy thinks that realism in animation=crap, and that the inherent quality of the medium (which is that it's being 100% drawn from the mind of the artists) should be exploited to max degree. I can't say I completely disagree, but realist animation has its own charm as well. Ultimately, I'd still say that someone like Ohira or Hisashi Mori is much more exciting than any realist animator.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 15:56
>>102
That's a shame, but it's no surprise as well. At least there's that Paperman technology that they can use to emulate that hand-drawn look I suppose.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 16:03
>>104
I think with that article I finally understand what the Paperman technology allows, it allows 2D animators to translate their 2D drawing skills onto a 3D platform. Before there had to be a middle man, a CG animation technician that would rig the models and set motion arcs and whatever else CG animators do. With the Paperman technology, 2D animators can also lend their talents to 3D works.
Not exactly what the article says. Strong points and merits of realistic/hyperrealistic animation are also brought up later. Personally, I prefer "realist" animators, by far. People like Oohira Shinya in particular (because yes, imo, he is a heavily realism inclined animator - think of the movement, especially in his effects animation, no?). Shinji Hashimoto is a given. Or Itou Hidetsugu and Inoue Toshiyuki. I prefer the believable and comprehensive aesthetic/detail and motion (stuff like Itou's cut in Je T'aime towards the end when the android goes into shooting mode - link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSqkIdfa3qY&t=2m32s). And above all, I have a special place for Iso Mitsuo. As we all know, he is all about motion, motion and motion. No flash, no visual bling (like Takeshi Koike's block shadows that personally tire me out). Just minimally abstracted, as natural as possible movement. And it looks fucking great.
"Honorable mentions" I guess, would go to Okiura. But I won't put him among my favourites (as much as his work sometime leaves me in awe) because he strikes me as uncanny at times. The stuff he does is so on the spot that it feels too good, creepy maybe (I remember the threads on /a/ when people claim he is rotoscoping). Technically impressive, but not aesthetically impressive. In a sense, he's an example of realistic animation gone slightly wrong. He'll always be the guy who's stuff I look up to but never really admire.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 17:01
>>106
I wouldn't say something like Wanwa is realist... at least, not the type of realism that Inoue, Okiura or Iso do.
But you would say that many other things he did are. For example, his cuts in Innocence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrqAkgi2e_o&t=8m48s) are pretty much the most realistic in the whole film. Incredibly detailed movement, even down to breathing and small muscle tension (quite obvious at the very beginning, right after Batou lands out of the vent shaft from the ceiling).
Also, he's the only one that bothers to animate Batou's hair during the running/action.
You can say Ohira is versatile, expressive, and diverse in style, but you can't really say he's not a realistic animator.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 17:21
The subject and content of the stuff that's being animated also has something to do with it. Wanwa is supposed to be a surreal story. It doesn't need to stick to the real world. Things are different with Ghost in the Shell. I'd say what most characterizes his style would be an obsession with detail, in everything.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 17:25
>>108
Among Ohira's works that I've seen, his cuts from Innocence are the best. I don't always like his animation because I find it to be too weird at times. He's a realist animator alright, but in a different way from how the likes of Inoue and Okiura animate. He animates movement in a realistic manner, but it's not to replicate reality. Perhaps surreal animation is the right word?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 17:28
Well yeah, he suits himself to what he's doing- his Ghibli stuff is also totally realistic. But I think it's telling that when he gets a chance to direct and have creative freedom, he churns out Wanwa instead.
I was referring to realism more in the sense of adhering to the character designs and exaggerating very little to achieve some sort of photo-realistic movement. Okiura would be the best example, but Nishio or Inoue aren't that far off. Ohira doesn't strike me as the same type of animator, particularly his more recent stuff.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 17:41
Just goes to show that there are several aspects to realism.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 17:46
>>111
I recall someone (Ben from Anipages?) referring to Ohira's animation as being "expressionistic realism". I think it fits pretty well.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 19:17
>>103 >>104
That's not what the article says but what Kracauer said. The article itself is much more thorough in treating realism and questions the idea of Disney features as realistic and what realistic means within different contests.
Medium specificity beyond what's strictly material is a silly notion anyway. Especially if comes with nonsense rules about what an art form should and shouldn't do.
"Painting on canvas will always have a rough texture. To exploit this properly a painter shouldn't depict smooth objects but instead focus on the depiction of sand paper, beards etc"
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-07 23:06
>>80
I see Ohira's scene from Howl's there around 50 sec in >>115
>contests
I meant contexts. Sorry.
Most of the golem fight was Arasan's but I think the effects animaiton at the end looked like some else's doing. There was also some nice background and effects animation somewhere in the middle of the episode.
Aku no Hana - lol rotoscoping
Photo Kano - what are you doing Yokoyama
Azazel-san 2 - based Mizushima and ProIG
Hataraku Maou-sama - I checked out the PV and it looked....pretty solid actually. Nice animation, direction and everything
Gargantia - its got Kameda on board already
Titan - has Araki but I wasn't impressed with Guilty Crown. It really petered out by the end, was expecting better from him and his clique
Otona Joshi no Anime Time - these shorts look pretty solid. The Bones one looks the best
some are up in the air
Yuyushiki - Kinema Citrus so it might have some cool animation
Railgun S - Nozumu Abe maybe?
Valvrave - more CGI mecha but it does have Kou Matsuo
Majestic Prince - I'm honestly just watching this because Hirai designs
Nozomu Abe is probably going to be a regular for Railgun since that seems to be his thing. Nagai shows look above average anyway and I'm hoping this will be more action packed than the first season.
Majestic Prince has Orange doing the mecha.
Mushibugyou might have Kou Yoshinari.
Any Mizushima show tends to be lively and since this is IG we'll have some Nishio.
Tanaka might be a regular for Photo Kano.
Pretty much every short that isn't Flash should be worth checking out.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-08 22:23
>>152
Photo Kano - Yokoyama
Mermaid thing - Yoshihara
Yuyushiki - Mojikoi and that other guy
Azazel - Mizushima
Aiura - Nakamura
Majestic Prince - Just to see how they twist Hirai's design
Railgun - Director,his connections and Abe?
Really cautious about IG projects because lol consistency, at least Kameda is on board.
Probably that's it for animation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-08 22:35
>>154
Not so sure about Maou-sama, I can assure you 100% of the footage in the trailer is from the first episode. And Railgun S definitely has Nozomu Abe, considering he's confirmed in the Index movie. Should be FX animation director and a regular animator again. If you want to bet on unexpected sakuga I'd rather go with Namiuchigiwa (Kikuko Sadataka Chief AD) or Oregairu (Yuu Shindou designs, maybe AD as well).
Other than that, I'd say:
-Mushibugyou; Seven Arcs always has cool action animation, and Yoshinari should show up
-Photo Kano; lol Yokoyama
-Yuyushiki; no idea why Kinema Citrus is doing this, really
-Shingeki no Kyoujin; Araki should at least bring some cool people
-Valvrave; in Matsuou Kou we trust, the Gundam short he made had some awesome mecha battle storyboarding
-Gargantia; Kameda confirmed, production values seem rather high
-Azazel-san; I assume Mizushima will bring awesome people like Junichiro Taniguchi again
-Railgun S; as I said, Nozomu Abe!
Plus things like OreImo 2 and Devil Survivor which might not be interesting animation-wise but have good production values. This season is kind of huge.
Haha, most people seem to agree about pretty much everything. Funny seeing a bunch of posts pop up and mention the same shows. Guess the hype is shared at least.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-08 23:00
I swear I typed this before seeing a bunch of posts saying the same. You're making it hard to disagree, guys.
It barely has any animation but there's a neat cut.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 3:20
RDG: Not expecting any fancy animation, but I can trust P.A. Works to deliver slick visuals
Majestic Prince: Orange CGI could be good
Valvrave: Not sure who's doing the CGI but I'll watch to compare. Director might be able to pull some talent on board.
Gargania: Kameda confirmed. How can I say no to that?
Shingeki no Kyojin: Might have good action
Railgun S: Like others have mentioned, hoping for Nozomu Abe. I trust Nagai should be able to deliver.
Aku no Hana: Curious about the rotoscope. I think it should be an interesting experience.
Photo Kano: With Yokoyama directing maybe he'll rope in Tanaka for some animation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 4:52
SSY 18 was horrible.
Arasan can go die in a fire. His shitty, choppy animation stood out like a sore thumb and ruined the whole scene. As should Ishihama for approving such a thing. He should never direct a series ever again. Let him stick to KA and AD.
I wasn't as invested in the series by that point. And the fact that it was a flashback made it more bearable, because that made for a a half-justification in the change of style. Now I understand how all the Naruto fans I used to laugh at felt during the Pain fight...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 5:54
>>166
I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to changes in animation/art styles, so I fine with Arasan's work so far. At the very least I like his work in SSY better than what he did in Star Driver.
Nothing to do with being "open minded". Animation is a form of storytelling. The animation should support the story. I have no problem with changes in style if they are used to enhance the narrative, or are justified by it. I also don't mind changes in style if the work establishes from the get-go that it does not care about such "conventions" (see MInd game). But when a cut is different simply because a certain animator was assigned to it, and nothing more, then we have a really big problem. It's incredibly jarring and it took me way out of the experience. As contrast, SSY went trough changes in style before, like in episode 10. That was good because it supported and enhanced the story in that episode.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 6:41
>>168
On the other side, seeing how production of SSY might be, it was probably a choice between Arasan or black screen.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 6:46
>>168
I agree that animation should be able to work with the narrative, that is certainly ideal. However, I'm also fine with a cut looking different just because some animator worked on it. Whenever I look at a well-animated cut, I appreciate it for its technical qualities first, then after that I consider its contribution to the narrative. Perhaps this is a shallow way to appreciate animation, but I'm the sort of person who is doesn't mind ignoring the context of a scene and enjoying the animation on its own.
Speaking of Arasan's work, perhaps it would've been less jarring to you if he toned down the explosions to look like his recent cuts in Sasami-san? >>120
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 7:29
>>162 >>157 >>154
Valvrave has Suzuki Tatsuya as character designer.
As soneone who worked on Sacred Seven, he could bring in some cool sakuga moments.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 7:34
I thought Arasan's cut in episode 3 worked well with the narrative since it was a flashback and since in the show history is something hard to come by, offering this distorted and extreme vision of the past using Arasan's animation style was a good choice IMO.
>>173 Animation director TBA for Psycho-Pass finale
That's not a good sign, is it?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 9:59
http://vimeo.com/28792404
In the Cut, Part I: Shots in the Dark (Knight)
A (very) detailed look at the first part of a famous TDK car/truck chase sequence, analyzing how it is put together and whether the filmmaking grammar makes sense.
http://vimeo.com/28957441
In the Cut, Part II: A Dash of Salt
Another action sequence, emphasizing longer shots and deeper compositions to establish spatial relationships within the frame and between cuts.
----------------------------
Not animation but probably something people here would like anyway.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 10:06
>>180
I think I remember watching that, though I can recall how I found those videos. Probably was linked on /tv/. I don't remember having any issues with TDK's direction, but I watched it years ago. TDKR's wasn't very good though.
The slow-fast-slow timing of anime is in service of doing as little animation as possible. You have a slow (ideally completely still) motion punctuated by a very fast (ideally with no inbetweens) motion and back to slow/still motion. This works maybe the first ten times you see it, or you know what, the first hundred times, but how many times can you see the exact same "magic trick" before it gets tedious and boring?
Lol the guys posting anime gifs in that thread seemed to be choosing shitty examples on purpose or something.
I'd dare the guys to bash Iso's scene on EoE or Yutapon's SOTS final scene.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 16:16
>>184
This comment is from >>188
I just posted it because I'm interested in hearing what you all think of that comment.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-09 17:13
>>193
I think the guy saying all that doesn't have enough exposure to Japanese animation. He's describing a single specific style and we all know that not every good animator (especially not the best) go with that type of impressionistic motion. In fact, those two Precure gifs were kind of shitty by themselves, I'm surprised the guy posting it didn't at least try with something better from HC #47.
I also disagree with the notion that just because that kind of cost-cutting exists it's bad or inherently tiring. Creative animators will make good uses of very few frames and the same technique of slow-fast-slow that won't get old.
-Before Tamako Market, Ishidate had directed the finale for the three KyoAni TV anime in a row (shared in Hyouka's case and solo in the other two).
-Similarly, he'd directed multiple episodes in every new KyoAni TV anime since 2006 but just recently broke the tradition by only supervising one episode in both Chuu2Koi and Tamako Market (the last episode for the former, episode 7 along with Ishihara in the latter). Considering his involvement with the studio doesn't seem to have decreased at all, it's easy to guess he's busy with something.
-Among the KyoAni members that haven't had as much spotlight as expected there's also Chise Kamoi, who for the first time in a couple years hasn't been picked as the animation director of a single episode in one of their shows.
-In a mass update of their CM staff list, KyoAni revealed that the Kyoukai no Kanata promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK1fLm4VrDA) had Ishidate as the director/storyboarder and Chise Kamoi as the character designer. Considering Chuu2Koi's success and the length of KyoAni's production schedule, it could very well be that the project's in early stages so they haven't been able to do much in other series. Late 2013/early 2014 Kyoukai no Kanata adaptation? Sounds likely to me.
Thoughts? It still has that bouncy and rubbery look that betrays its true nature if you ask me.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-10 21:02
>>216
That's an interesting bit of software. It works rather well when zooming out, but when the mecha moves into the final pose it looks a bit weird. Maybe there should be less in-betweens when going through the frames 5,6, and 7 for some Obari-like timing?
Animation Directors
Kazumi Ikeda (Animation Do, currently working at the Kyoto office?)
Shoko Ikeda*
Hiroyuki Takahashi (Didn't work as AD on Tamako Market)
Futoshi Nishiya
Yukiko Horiguchi
Chiyoko Ueno
Miku Kadowaki (Animation Do)
Nobuaki Maruki
Seiichi Akitake
Chise Kamoi (Didn't work as AD on Tamako Market)
Kayo Hikiyama (Animation Do)
Nao Naito
>>231
Mostly JC, currently showing up a lot in Magi. Also very active in Dogakobo's better produced shows like YuruYuri and GJbu.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-11 16:11
>>226
Some of the Magi ones are DEFINITELY rough/unfinished, which is even more noticeable with this animation style. I rather like the rest, though.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-11 16:24
Just how often do shows air with unfinished animation? For something to be aired without enough in-betweens is a pretty serious problem isn't it?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-11 16:34
>>234
Completely lacking in-betweens isn't exactly common, but I can think of some examples like the infamous Morgiana dancing and one walking scene in Symphogear. Rough and very clearly unfinished cuts are everywhere, though, so it depends on where you draw the line.
>>242
Here's hoping for a healthy dose of Takashi Kojima and the rest of the SSY sakuga crew for the finale.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-11 20:31
>>238
The greatest animation of all time
The greatest.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-11 21:56
>>237
Many shows have horrible scheduling, or rather strict scheduling that doesn't allow any room for the animators. If an episode takes 6 weeks to animate, often the studio will only give 3 or 4.
It gets worse as a show goes on as animation will often spill over deadlines, which is fine for the first couple of episodes, but then you get later episodes where the team are animating right up until the day before it airs.
Then you get completely fucked up schedules like the Fujiko Lupin show which only began animating each episode 2 weeks before the airdate.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-11 21:58
>>242
Woah, I wonder if Hirotoshi Takaya will work on Gundam UC then?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-11 23:19
>>238
Well, there've certainly been worse walking animations in "professional" productions...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 2:41
Sakugawiki's recommended stuff from this decade so far.
2012
LUPIN the Third #1
Mirai Nikki #25
SKET DANCE #71
2013
GJ-bu #8
OVA/Special
Asura's Wrath 11.5 (STUDIO4℃. 2012）
Shoka (Production I.G., 2010)
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke wo (ChuChu, 2010)
Yozakura Quartet Hoshi no Umi (Tatsunoko Production, 2010-2011)
Yuri Seijin Naoko-san (ufotable, 2011)
Theatrical Movie
BLOOD-C: The Last Dark (Production I.G., 2012)
The Borrower Arrietty (Studio Ghibli, 2010)
Fullmetal Alchemist: The Sacred Star of Milos (BONES, 2011)
K-On! Movie (Kyoto Animation, 2011)
A Letter to Momo (Production I.G., 2012)
Niji-Iro Hotaru: Eien no Natsu Yasumi (Toei Animation, 2012)
Onigamiden (Studio Pierrot, 2011)
Redline (Madhouse, 2010)
Welcome to the Space Show (A-1 Pictures, 2010)
Wolf Children Ame and Yuki (Madhouse, 2012)
I haven't seen UN-GO yet, but it did have Kameda and obligatory Yutapon in the last episode. Guilty Crown is definitely above average for a TV series, but I'd group it in a lower tier if that list was ranked. Makihara's episodes are definitely worth watching though even if ep 4 wasn't as good as I remembered it to be. It's still the kind of show that has obvious cost cutting during the middle of each cour, there were some explosions and action sequences depicted as stills.
I still have no idea why stuff like Birdy and Star Driver aren't in there.
>>257
I didn't watch Zetman, but didn't it have Hisashi Mori as a regular animator? I believe Arasan and Nozomu Abe did some work as well, but I don't know how consistent was the animation.
Is it me or.. KyoAni's quite tame with the animation these days...
Hyouka has been the only thing I remember that stood out recently...
Chuunibyou and Tamako have been fairly so so....
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 5:46
A lot of things could be changed in that list. The one-shot list could use some additions, for example nothing from Animemirai is there. At least Kizuna Ichigeki should be there I think.
And I wouldn't put Guilty Crown there, the standard should be a bit higher...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 7:06
>>261
I'd say that both Chuu2Koi and Tamaket are quite easily superior in regards to animation so yes, it's just you. I'd take Hyouka's art direction any day, though.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 7:55
>>263
hyouka animation was way better, stop joking
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 8:00
Hyouka, Chuu2 and Tamako looked rather equally well-animated to me, though Hyouka has the best art direction among the trio.
>>264
Unless by animation you mean visuals in general, which isn't something I'd expect from people posting in a sakuga thread, you'll have to back that up because I don't think it is. All three of them have equally consistent animation quality and I can recall more excellent cuts in Chuu2Koi and Tamaket despite it being shorter so I see nothing wrong with saying that. As others said, though, I prefer the overall looks of Hyouka as well because it had an insane attention to detail and very deliberate art direction.
It actually has a lot of big name animators contribute in specific episodes, but outside of those episodes, the show has really low budget animation. The DVDs kinda fixed some of the more atrocious animation(I've seen comparison images between TV and DVD versions and my god the TV animation is terrible), but even with the fixes it still leaves something to desired for.
Out of like 39 episodes, only about 5-7 have good "sakuga" animation.
Though episode 13 is extremely recommended, great character, mecha and effects animation all round with good direction.
Ep 13 =
Storyboard: Ken Ootsuka
Ep Director: Gou Koga
Chara AD: Tatsuzou Nishida
Mecha AD: KenO
It's like a mish mash of Gainax, Bones and Toei's best.
I dunno if it's just sakuga wiki users liking the fact that there were specific episodes with really good animation. Oh and I can't forget the 2nd OP by Bari with some of Kanada's final TV animation. Perhaps the Kanada link is what persuaded them to keep it as a recommended show? I don't know.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 14:20
>>273
Ugh, it's those lousy digital effects again. Sometimes simple coloring for the effects works better. Good animation though.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 14:45
>>272
I see...Speaking of Atsushi Wakabayashi, supposedly there an Atsushi Wakabayashi episode in the works
Mermaid spring anime. A lot of web-gen animators incoming.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 17:23
>>279
I didn't know Tatsuya Yoshihara's directing that. Animation looks pretty good, one of the cuts in there seems like Yoshihara's.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 18:29
>>279
I'm down for this, we need more sakuga comedies.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 18:40
>>255
Between their NY studio and their California studio they have about 250 people, though that number's over a year old.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 19:13
>>281
It's airing in the same slot as Azazel-san (both are 15 minutes long) so you get two sakuga comedies.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-12 20:56
Gave GJ-bu a try and was pleased by it. Minimalistic style but lots of lively character animation that make it just pleasant to watch. It's not dogakobo's best by any stretch but it's got some interesting regular animators.
>>298
And there's a lot of random macro-shots (pic related http://i.imgur.com/itl5z9v.jpg) wish is Yamada's signature, but the episode it didn't flow well like when Yamada did it.
There were some pretty nice cuts of character animation in Tamako #9. As other anons mentioned earlier, the directing has some quirks to it. Quite a lot of jump cuts for some reason.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-13 19:16
>>307
I don't know if it's intentional or not, but they broke the 180-degree rule several times.
There are a lot of unnecessary cuts and they moved from one shot to another shot quite fast.
It's kinda hard to follow.
These might be beginner's mistakes or they probably just wanted to make everything looks more organic and less "planned" by not following the basic rules.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-13 19:16
Whoah, 23 key animators in Tamako #10. When was the last time a Kyoani episode had this much people working on it? The schedule must be fucking them in the ass.
Besides that, I like the off-beat storyboarding, even if some shots may be a bit overdone. I thought the story for this episode was handled well, with the right amount of weight into Midori without feeling being heavy-handed. The animation was obviously suffering a bit, there were many stills and BG shots while the dialogue occurred. Even then, the stuff that was animated was very well animated, and we got Ishidate doing a cut near the end and all.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-13 19:28
>>308 I don't know if it's intentional or not, but they broke the 180-degree rule several times.
That one didn't bother me that much, my only main gripe would be the excessive jump cuts and stills during various parts but the moments of good character animation made up for that.
>>309
Good thing KyoAni are taking a break at last then. The consecutive runs of Hyouka, Chuuni, and Tamako is the longest for KyoAni isn't it?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-13 19:30
>>309
And 2 assistant-ADs, Chiyoko Ueno and Nao Naito.
Ueno was an AD on episode 8 and also an assistant AD on episode 9.
It's must have been tough for her.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-13 19:31
>>310
Nope, Kanon 2006 -> end of Clannad were 6 seasons. This is their second longest run, though.
Quite surprising to find noticeable amounts of off-model drawings in Tamako Market 10...Although reading a few posts above it's not so surprising in retrospect. I wonder what happened with KyoAni? Could this have something to do with the rumours about their new show (super busy schedule or something)?
Animate some slow action if you don't plan to draw a lot of frame.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-13 19:56
>>317
It did go off model at times? Can't say I noticed.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-13 20:10
>>317
Does it really? The unusually high number of cuts was really obvious, but I didn't realize that. Either way, it looks like it was a rather rushed episode so there's your answer. The spring (and mayeb summer?) break will do them good.
I thought we were able to get away from the spam...
its not fair
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 2:05
I really liked Tamako #10
yeah, there were loads of jump cuts but it gave the episode a lot of energy, something I think the show has been sorely lacking up till now. They did go overboard with it at points, but I think it worked to the episode's advantage. They might have been overcompensating because of the rushed production schedule lol. The animation was lively and a lot of shots felt pretty creative IMO, like when Midori is procrastinating in her room
Em, what? Karigurashi no Arriety was great, animation wise. Maybe you're confusing it with something else? There may be better films than it in terms of animation but it wasn't bad at all as far as sakuga goes.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 2:39
>>326
I thought the animation was scarce relative to other episodes of the show, but the stuff that was animated was really well animated. Don't know how much the two asst. ADs influenced the drawings, but I like this new guy's style.
The Midori crying part and the brief baton show were pretty good.
No, I'm sure which one is Arriety. As far as sakuga goes, nothing was really impressive, at least not for me.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 9:10
I did not like the storyboarding in Tamako Market 10. It felt too crowded and the skip cuts were overused. It got pretty tiring after a while.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 9:14
That's really impressive of Bahi, going from foreign youngster to working with the big dogs. I wonder if any of the Japanese young animators are jealous that Bahi gets to work on such big projects.
Man, it was just a short time ago he was that over enthusiastic young guy on Anipages forum that would post in lots of Sakuga MAD comments and 2-3 years later he's running with the giants. I mean Morimoto? Inoue? Honda? Shinchiro Watanabe? Daaaaaaaamn. Massive props to the guy.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 9:33
Someone ask Bahi to find out where Mitsuo Iso is ワロス
>>348
Dunno, he said: KA check for a certain work is complete. The film is fun because of all the wonderful key animators working on it. In more ways than one. (^ω^)
Then:
Cutting for a certain film is complete. Now we'll revive the crazy era of anime (In a good way)
He's saying "Film" so I wonder if it is an actually movie or just wording he's using.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 10:51
I would laugh if it's just Angel Blade 3.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 11:46
Damn, BahiJD is going places.
First I just thought of him as an inspiration, but now I'm feeling the jelly. Even if he brings hope for aspiring animators overseas, I don't think they will be as successful as he was.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 11:57
>>349 >>352
I think it's Horiguchi.
She's drawing on sakkan paper and the color sweater seems more blueish than Yamada's.
And that special is about Horiguchi after all.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 12:04
>>346
This.
Inoue should know where Iso is and what he's doing.
Dunno. They probably just cared about the effect of the cut... or something. It _does_ stand out after all. It might not even be rotoscoped. Just overlayered live footage. Pointless food for thought.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 15:47
People who complain about animation are the same kind of scumbags who weight graphics as important in video games.
If the VA, story, and characters are solid, you should shut up and enjoy. It's like you guys have never enjoyed a picture drama before.
If you only care about how the story and characters are written, go read a book. Period. Don't even do that, because you're just a plebeian who doesn't know anything. Next thing you'll say is that a book doesn't need good writing to be good, just like you're saying animated works don't need good animation to be good.
If you care about how the story and the characters but are also interested in how the ideas behind the writing are implemented and portrayed using the particularities of animation as a visual medium, than by all means, stick around. Are you also going to say that acting doesn't matter in a live action film? No, right - because quality acting is important to the characterization. Obvious analogue in animation - picture dramas and manga do not have any sorts of character acting, because acting is a dynamic portrayal. Right off the bat, proper animation contributes to proper characterization.
Examples and analyses can continue. If you were at least half serious, and have at least half a functioning brain, you should do some inferring yourself.
Responding to obvious trolls is a sign of kindness. Responding to copypasta brought over from wherever is just good practice in discourse.
Fail. Broken analogy. Graphics are only one characteristic of video games. The defining one being gameplay. Gameplay is to video games what animation is to animated works. A "game" with no gameplay isn't a game. Likewise, an "animated work" with no animation isn't an animated work. Compare defining characteristics with defining characteristics. See how that shitty analogy of yours holds up then.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 16:09
Voice acting is more important than animation only when the film/series is filled with characters that are a-corporeal, disembodied voices. Just like there's more to you than your tongue, there's more to a character than its voice. Gestures, tics, expressions, mannerisms. All portrayed through character animation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 16:10
>>369
Why do these weirdos care about visuals in visual media?!
The fact that, whoever you may be, none of your favourite anime/cartoons are picture dramas (this is a hard fact) speaks volumes against your ignorant stance.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 16:14
The only problem is that character animation in anime is typically inferior to those in western animation, even in higher-budget features. Most of the good stuff lies in action and effect animation.
You're wrong by definition. In a way that is harder than scientific facts.
No animation = no animation. Picture dramas are not animation. Enjoying picture dramas and enjoying animation are two different things, even if both are visual media.
Undermine the value of animation in an anime and you undermine the value of the work and the medium altogether.
>>380 >>381
There hasn't been any anime with character animation as good as Disney or Looney Tunes cartoons. You all mentioned characterization through animation but the character animation in anime mostly consists of mouthflaps and inexpressive acting.
Yes there has been. You preferring a certain style of acting has nothing to do with it. Just like different actors have different styles of acting, different animators (and by extension animation "traditions") have different styles of portraying character acting.
And this
character animation in anime mostly consists of mouthflaps and inexpressive acting.
is just plain false. If you don't watch anime and western cartoon TV series, you have nothing to base your comparison on. And it shows.
Are we going to fall for every weak and tired trolling now? "Why do you care about animation over other aspects" followed by "anime sucks compared to western productions" is about as bad as it gets. I know it's annoying, but let it go.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 16:35
"There hasn't been any anime with character animation as good as Disney or Looney Tunes cartoons. "
That's just bullshit. Just last year there's been Momo e no tegami, Wolf Children, the Crayon Shin-chan film, Hyouka, Evangelion 3.0 and Niji-iro Hotaru to name a few more representative ones. They all have very good to fantastic character acting.
Reading these last few posts just makes me groan.
I understand we get little discussion here, but allowing a person attacking the thread/animation fans to get traction is even worse. This is our 12th thread. For those of us that have been here since the start, this is just starting to get very tiring.
Thankfully this movie was a big, big hit in Japan, so I was able to get a ticket to make another movie, so right now I’m just brainstorming for the next idea
Will he be still working with Madhouse in the next project?
Are you trying to say that Hyouka did not have good character animation?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 16:49
Anything good in this week's Vividbutts? Last week was pretty disappointing.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 17:02
>>392
Considerably better than last week, but not great. The scheduling has been pretty decent for A-1 so far so I'm willing to let those go if the finale's good enough.
From my few searches of western animation, I've mostly found pencil tests and documentaries.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 17:48
I've noticed something. Whenever I see how western production work on animation (traditional animation), on films they draw on these huge sheets (A3 I think) but all the anime videos I've went through had the animators draw on small A4 sheets even for films. Any reason for that besides budget (although I don't quite get how or how much that would affect the budget)?
Many western animator make their own demoreels.
I think it's harder for Japanese animators to get permission from studios to put their works in a video.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 17:58
>>397
They use bottom peg. It's easier to flip/roll with big papers.
Japanese animators use top peg and they don't flip as often as their western counterpart. Using smaller paper probably can save some time.
I think it depends more on the photography process because they always scan in higher resolution than the final video resolution.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 19:35
>>403
Not necessarily, but a bigger sheet allows bigger resolutions. And in KyoAni's case, it's let them go 1080p for movies/OPs and slightly lower for the TV episodes, much larger resolutions than they used back then.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-14 20:50
>>349
Do you have a link to the clip or at least know which DVD it's from?
>>405 >>404
If that's the case, why can't studios who already use sheets appropriate for HD video scan them for a final video resolution for 1080p to begin with? I don't get why would KyoAni have just the OP and ED in 1080p, with the rest of an episode in a lower resolution. Is there a significant opportunity cost to doing that?
For people who don't know.
Ryota_H is an ex-Gainax animator.
He was the first one to leave the company before Imaishi and everyone.
Now he is a freelance illustrator and works for Trigger here and there.
Blaureiter was CG Artist on Otomo's Freedom.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-15 6:53
>>411
So that's the person that Bahi was talking to about digital animation the other day. I thought that was one of his web animator friends.
If you can't name at least 10 animators and be able to notice their scenes please don't talk about sakuga. Even the wiki says that you can't be a real sakuga fan if you just read the wiki and have seen some MADs, you need to be devoted for it every day.
It's bad enough alot of people hate "sakuga fans" so saying this kind of aggressive thing is just silly. There should be no "requirement" to be a "sakuga fan" as long as you can enjoy the animation then that is fine.
It suffers from a shitty production, there's probably not much time for animation. Just look at the staff credits, so much outsourcing and multiple animation directors per episode.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-15 11:30
ok thanks
I was thinking , they give the animation to a rookie studio
because the feeling is that the production is chaotic
great series but it could have been a masterpiece with a better animation and drawings
This sentence in the second comment nailed it, at least for me
"The boom in western sakuga nerds is down to Naruto. Specifically the episodes animated by Norio Matsumoto before the filler hell fell upon the series." Damn that Sasuke vs Orochimaru was awesome.
>>439
For me it was when Soul Eater was airing. All those well animated fight scenes finally opened my eyes. Once I learned what a Yutapon was, I was hooked. I can still remember being anticipated for episode 11's fight scene and being blown away when it finally aired.
>>439
It kinda just slowly dawned on me that good animation was one of my favorite aspects of anime. Something I always loved but wasn't always aware that I did. I love me a good story of course but the animation and artwork is what I feel really inspires me when I watch stuff. I guess it began sinking in after Mitsuo Iso's EoE scene. I loved that scene since the first moment I saw it and back then I wasn't even sure why. After some time I realized how much it stood out purely because of the animation, I realized I had never seen anyone animate with such weight before, and after that I just started paying more attention to animation, but it took quite a while before I even knew sakuga was a thing.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-15 22:22
>>439
TTGL. Both the first time I actively looked up animators and the first time I got into heated discussions about anime visuals further than "this looks good".
Well I appreciated animation way before I was interested who were behind it.
If I were to say, what rolled the ball for my appreciation in animation fan was the opening sequence for SWAT kats. Hilariously enough I recently found out it was outsourced to Gainax. Mostly what really sparked my appreciation for animation wasn't entirely /a/ related. It was further strengthened by Tom and Jerry shows airing on CN.
From there on it just flowed and I came across shows like YuYu Hakusho, Eva, DBZ, Gundam Wing, You're Under Arrest, and for my underage faggotry back then, Kite!
I never cared about the who or what processes involves the anime I watched up until I came across Bones and KyoAni.
But even before that I followed a studio's work in general without looking into the details behind it.
What sparked the interest in staff members was based Yutapon(Soul Eater) and Kigami(Munto). Naruto's cuts impressed me back but it never intrigued me to look for staffs or even the director behind it.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-16 4:27
>>439
I'm relatively new to the whole sakuga thing, but I started to care about animators when Penguindrum was airing and the talk of the threads was all about the solo Keiji Gotoh or Nobuyuki Takeuchi episodes, or when Yamauchi and Umakoshi appeared. That show seemed to have much more staff-aware threads on /a/, I wonder if it's an Ikuhara thing...
After that I kinda continued like always, but when I read the word "sakuga" for the first time I started to look more into it and ended up in this thread (around the time thread #4 was created). After that I guess my interest has been just building up exponentially. Nowadays I just can't watch a show with an unpleasant aesthetic, whereas before I'd give everything a try based on synopsis and stuff (although it's true that I always gravitated more to stylish or simply well-produced shows).
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-16 5:15
>>439
I don't think there was ever one big thing that grabbed me and got me into animation. It was just a slow crawl of furthering my knowledge of the production process behind anime driven by a pathological desire for greater authenticity born out of my many emotionally crippling insecurities.
But if I had to pin down the first bit of "sakuga" animation that I saw and thought "whoa, that's cool", it was probably Seiya Numata's work on ep 16 of Toradora.
In sakuga specifically, /a/ and these threads (been here since the 3rd one).
I was interested in animation in general for a long time before that though, mainly because I grew up on Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry. What really drew me into the anime side was Eva. Also because of Anno, I am much more interested in storybparding and directing than animation.
Hmm maybe I have this confused with some other show then. Still though, I thought that was one of the gems of /co/ stuffs back then. Pleasantly surprised that the world is that the industry's world is quite smaller than I thought.
Did anyone see the RDG NicoNico preview? Anything interesting from P.A. Works?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-16 13:18
>>467
Average at best, another awful OP ala TariTari. P.A. Works has wonderful backgrounds and did some nice stuff with CANAAN and Iroha but everything else is just total crap in regards to the visuals.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-16 13:19
>>468
I guess they're not that special without based Ando then...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-16 13:39
>>469
Yeah, it's hilarious how much better Ando made Iroha. Though even then they seem to have hit their limit, since the Iroha movie doesn't seem to look any better than the show despite being only 60 minutes long.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-16 13:57
>>466
Action animation is solid, but it's not as good as say, FMA Milos. It's fine to watch if you follow the series, but not worth watching for the animation alone.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-16 13:59
Iroha had nice art, but I didn't like the animation too much, it didn't feel all that impressive.
>>466
I think one of the sakuga guys on twitter said it had much better animation than the TV show, some good bits here and there.
>>472
The thing about Iroha is that it has good production values and direction, which is more than can be said about other P.A. anime. Their animation is very mediocre, all characters go off model for no reason even in static scenes and the visuals just feel very uninspired even in big projects like Angel Beats. It's really annoying to see your average anime fan praise their stuff when the only thing they get right is the backgrounds.
I don't think the RDG OP is as lame as Tari Tari's. But I do agree that in general P.A. Works anime are very lackluster when it comes to directing and animation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-16 17:22
Just watched the first few episode of Xam'd (slowpoke, I know).
I'm really impressed by the production quality. It's almost movie-level.
Oh my god. Even though I'm not an artist or animator, I feel a little jealous knowing that bahi gets to meet and work with such legends & getting tips off them.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 2:49
You guys think that KyoAni will show something at TAF?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 5:09
>>482
Ah, so Bahi did the character settings for The 2 Queens. He's incredibly fortunate to be able to work with industry veterans, it should be interesting to see how his animation develops over the years.
>>483
I don't think so, but how early does KyoAni typically announce their next work?
>>481
He's the only animator credited for that OP.
>>486 Those are rotoscoped
[citation needed] inb4 claiming he's a sakuga expert
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 5:49
>>489
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in CalArts, and I’ve been involved in numerous animated films, and I have animated over 300 cuts. I am trained in mecha animation and I’m the top web animator in the entire internet. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will draw you the fuck on with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of animators across the world and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can draw in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed animating, but I have access to the entire arsenal of Kyoto Animation and I will use it to its full extent to draw your miserable ass on the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit genga all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 5:49
>>489
And by "the only animator" I mean he's only name credited for the entire OP. He probably did everything by himself (including live footage, etc).
>>496
It's a parody of some pasta that gets posted on 4chan sometimes.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 7:08
>>497 Just look at the clip will you?
And? People unironically said the same about Okiura's animation, Tatsuyuki Tanaka's animation or even Bahi's animation.
Ok, so you're just a troll. My bad for taking you seriously.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 8:55
>>514
I'm a troll because I disagreed with you?
Wow!
Call me what you want but I'd like to assume that a simple walk animation like that is not rotoscoped until I can find some credible source saying it's rotoscoped, especially when an animator behind the video is a decent one like Toshiyuki Tsuru.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 9:19
As you say, some of the fight scenes in Naruto move extremely well. Likewise with Samurai Champloo. The first episode of Samurai 7 looks very nice in terms of movement, and all of these are modern shows. However, that's not especially hard considering all of these examples are motion captured (even I have pulled off some stunning-looking fluid animation for Studio Trophis, merely by drawing over video footage of myself). 'Classic' anime was animated by hand, from the artist's brain. Nowadays, it's easy to take a shot of someone kicking someone else and simply trace. And trace is exactly what Naruto and others do... surely you've noticed how their proportions change drastically in the nice-looking action sequences? They suddely change from being anime proportiones, to having stumpy, real-life sized legs and arms. Either that, or they don't bother to draw at all, and just use cheap CG for the action sequences, as with much of Samurai 7 and indeed all of Macross Zero.
If you then go and look at classic action anime, like Ninja Scroll, Macross Plus, the Fist of the North Star movie from 1986, etc, you can see levels of animation easily on par with those seen in Naruto and others you mentioned. The difference is, they were all drawn without resorting to tracing a real life video sequence. And as for CG - the makers of the 100% CG fest Macross Zero have gone on record as saying they simply could not top the frame rate of 1994's Macross Plus, so they didn't even try and just used CG instead. If the makers of the show have stated that the animated action scenes of their own early show is unsurpassable in terms of frames, that kind of negates any argument in favour of modern anime's animation being better. The eye can only see so many frames per second, and you can't get better than that. The aerial dogfights in Macross Plus are utterly flawless. The final nail in the coffin is to watch the early 90's series The Guyver, and then watch last year's new version. You'll do well not to be sick all over your keyboard.
Modern anime use a lot of rotoscoping. Otaking confirmed. Now go home.
コンテ: Shinohara Toshiya
演出: Oota Tomoaki and Oonishi Keisuke
作画監督：Shiba Minako and Itou Ioriko (by the way, are 伊藤依織子 and 伊藤依頼子 the same person?)
Not going to bother with animators (sorry) because the video quality is piss poor (struggled for a couple of minutes to figure out which Itou is the AD) and no cuts really stood out animation wise, although the animation is on average good (the opening scene in the bath, and in the sports gym were above the rest I think).
After some complaints that I read here prior to delving into the episode, I had pretty low expectations (I too was never much of a P.A. works fan). But this episode was pretty nice. Shinohara did a nice job with the storyboards and the layouts are generally very good (some interesting angles when there's little animation, and a lot of variation that removes any sense of visual "boredom" or whatever)
2nd and 5th shots might look weird here, but they make sense in context (with the dialogue) and they're panned over in 2 layers so in the episode it looks better visually as well.
And really, the art direction was very pleasing and the episode was well produced all through. If they keep this level of quality for the whole series I will be pleased.
It does not matter that it's simple. Look at the timing and general movement.
Not even Okiura has that level of "natural" timing. As for why they'd rotoscope such a "simple" shot, I do not know, nor do I care. I have nothing against rotoscoping. That shot stands out but it looks good and fits the overall style of the OP animation. If you're going to have this attitude that you're having, than yes, I'm going to assume that you're a troll. Especially when the timing and movement in that cut is so strikingly different from the other silhouette animation in the same OP, done by the same person.
So, yeah... complain and troll more.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 9:37
>>518
Polished visuals is something I'd expect of P.A. Works, going by your assessment I might give the first episode a try when it's properly broadcasted.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 9:51
I get the feeling when realistic looking animation is drawn on 1s people automatically assume it is rotoscoped.
>>516
Otaking likes to make grand statements, but his boner for 80s and 90s film/OVA animation really skews his points. These days he's come round to modern animation. I know he said he enjoyed Gurren Lagann and Soul Eater.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 10:10
>>I get the feeling when realistic looking animation is drawn on 1s people automatically assume it is rotoscoped.
Disagree with that. As someone who got into animation from the "western" side of things (especially classic Disney and all, where everything is animated on 1s and 2s) there is a very noticeable difference in timing when the animation is rotoscoped. You can notice that in Secret of NIHM right away for example (the cuts with the wobbeling cage). Rotoscoped animation has a lot of tiny skips and jumps that aren't consciously noticeable if you're not used to it because they're very natural (that's how things move), while "plain" realistic animation is smoother.
If you look at it closely, the animation timing is much "smoother" (curvy) than it would be in reality. A lot of subtle stylized posing, stylized squash and stretch - it generally follows principles of animation that simulates real movement than actual movement dissected in frames like it would were it rotoscoped. You notice this from the first cut, with the leg tapping the rhythm, especially the way the jeans move around the leg. Very "curvy" motion.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 10:12
I really don't see what's so bad about rotoscoping...
The movement is very smooth and curvy. The body wobbles and "dances". People don't move like that. It's stylized realism.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 10:24
>>522
Obviously a person trained in animation and used to analysing animation can notice these things & can tell the difference, but most regular people that shout "oh this is rotoscoped" often can't tell the differences that you point out.
I must admit I myself am horrible at noticing the difference, some of your points do clear things up for me.
For the animation & related things, very much recommended. As you might know, it's done in the manner of animation "golden age" films but at the same time it was utilizing every technical advantage that the early 1980s had to offer, so it really looks the part. Effects in particular look very, very good, especially if you like the more retro style of effects that were done using photography tricks and all that.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 11:14
>>523 Hey, great subject. I am a rotoscoper and i absolutely love it, but I also love all forms of animation, film and everything in the middle. I honestly think that most audiences love it as well, just go to youtube and hit rotoscope and you will find an assortment of artist and filmakers working with it and 99% of the replies are very positive, it seems to be mainly a segment of animators that gripe about it. As for me I enjoy watching it and working with it.
The cuts in the classroom with the Kid and the professor writing are rotoscoped. Everything else isn't, but I'm pretty sure video references were used for most of the animation.
This guy beat okiura easily
He is the king of non rotoscoped animations
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 12:48
>>534
>a random western animator
>beating based Okiura
lel
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 13:31
>>534
So...have you seen all of what he's capable of animating or you're just basing it on that video which consists of a hip shaking and back view walk cycle?
I mean since you make the claim that he "beats okiura easily" I'd have to assume you've seen several films worth of his work.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 13:40
Wow guys calm down
Sorry , i was ironic (not sure the words works in english)
The dude is good but i meant , there is a lot of animators wich can animate realistic.
The beats okiura was a joke.
People claiming about Animatrix Kids Story to have rotoscope have no proof at all.
But there is an interview where Watanabe mentioned that they recorded the Matrix actor skateboarding to use those footages as reference, they didn't mention anything about rotoscoping.
In my opinion, Kids Story had no rotoscope, but they used many live-action footages as reference and inspiration wich was mentioned by Shinji Hashimoto and Watanabe in an interview.
>>543
--Ohira did that particular scene, not me. He is very good at skateboarding, so it was very helpful of him to draw that action scene of Clayton.--
Wow! Ohira animated those from scratch without reference! Amazing!
--He is very good at skateboarding--
I'm always proud of animators when they can do more than just animating and sitting behind the desk.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 14:51
>Ohira skateboarding
w-w-what...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 15:05
>I'm always proud of animators when they can do more than just animating and sitting behind the desk.
You're obsessed. Rotoscoping is not the devil, my friend.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 16:56
>>550
Can't tell if trolling or not but no.
Animators and Inetweeners still work with pencil & paper before it gets scanned into computers for digital paint and composition.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 17:01
>>551
Yeah, sakugafags are obsessed have no life.
No normal people would care if it's rotoscoped or not.
Just finished LoGH, animation was mediocre as expected but there were quite a few nice cuts during the dogfights in space. It seems that's where extra effort was put in to the animation. Quite interesting to see all mechanical animation being hand-drawn compared to modern-day animation where some CGI will be involved.
Of course, being made with cels meant there were some parts where it looked like the characters were shifting about as though the cels weren't aligned properly, and I recall seeing some paint smears as well. Still, a pretty interesting experience nonetheless since I haven't seen much old anime.
>>554
Tanaka's cut was neat, but shame about how sloppy the rest of the episode looked.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 17:45
>>558
This is why I think people see rotoscoping as the devil, it allows artists with average talent to animate better, but then it gives this disconnect like you see in this Otaking video.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-17 17:49
>>560
The problem I have with that Otaking animation is that the heads don't match up with how "three-dimensional" the rest of the body looks and moves. It's like the characters are wearing a mask.
>>561
If you wear a mask , it will not even be like that !
It's more like a png image pasted on a dancing image
Like a censor picture stuff.
ANd yeah it's flat.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 7:12
>>548 that list also thinks that Hiroyuki Okiura's Bebop intro was rotoscope.
I can also make a wikipedia page, you know?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 7:21
>>548 >>579 Cowboy Bebop: The Movie (the introduction sequence)
It's over, Okiura is finished
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 7:25
>>580
rofl do you believe in that wikipedia article?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 7:27
>>580 you know I could just edit that article right now and no one would care.
I could just type in all Okiura's scenes into that page and some retards would actually believe that.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 8:21
Okiura is a fraud
Ohira is a fraud too , he just can't skate.
Itano stole the circus from Otaking
Otaking created anime back in the 70'
We are finished.
I hope you guys never got curious enough to read FMA: ...Milos reviews and comments on various sites. Apparently the film has shit animation. I don't think I've cringed this much, ever.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 16:25
>>594
I remember reading a review for FMA Milos from a non-anime site before, if I'm not mistaken the reviewer praised its animation.
Amazing how non-anime fans know more about animation then.
MAL is filled with reviews that call its animation bad, AniDB has a highly upvoted "animation quality drop" tag and people complain about the animation in the comments section, likewise on ANN comments. I regret ever setting foot in those places. I feel this incredible urge to start arguing that the animation in the film was awesome. But then I remember what was said about the Naruto Pain fights, so fuck it. Still triggers my nerd-rage button like crazy. Hahaha ;_;
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 16:46
>>596
When the character designs shift too much from the stock "anime" look anime fans get really uncomfortable and resort to calling it bad animation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 16:56
I used to get angry at anime community over stuff like this but I don't hang around them anymore so it's all good. I always found it disappointing that people would praise voice actors, scriptwriters, music, characters, story, character design etc but very rarely would I ever hear much about animation. It was always footnote or an aside, and referred to in intangible terms like "budget" or "bad/good artstyle".
it's pretty depressing really. Which is why I love these threads
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 18:53
>[hunyaa] Young Animator Training Project 2012 - Death Billiards (YTV 1280x720 x264 AAC).mkv
XAM'D sakuga MAD reupload for those in Clapistan since jewtube blocked it for US viewers
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-18 19:42
>>594
Well, that movie is basically aimed at sakuga nerds. It's done to give every animation fan that watches it a nerdgasm, while not caring at all for what the average viewer might think.
Thanks. That film was amazing. I know some (jokingly?) call its animation soulless, or "too smooth" but I was really in awe while watching. Really cool art and character direction too. I think The Thief and the Cobbler had a lot of influence with folks like Gendy because the droids and stuff in Samurai Jack remind me a lot of the design in the film (the demon/machine army especially).
>>606
Well, Orange is the top CG company working in anime along with SANZIGEN. The work of these two studios deserves to be appreciated on its own merits, I think, as opposed to the typical "at least it's not offensive" reaction to CG in anime.
They're credited for production of the show, like, on the same level of relevance as Dogakobo, so there will probably be a good amount of budget, time and screen put into the CG of MJP.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 8:23
>>602
Every anime with top animators is a sakuga anime.
And there are many of them around.
As example, every single Ghibli film is specially made for sakuga nerds then.
that's bullshit.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 8:46
>>610
That's not what I meant. What I'm saying is that the animation in certain animated works (like the last FMA movie) will only be appreciated by sakuga nerds for the most part, while the average viewer will pass it off as "bad animation".
Of course there are movies with great animation that can be appreciated by both the animation nerd and the average viewer alike.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 9:42
Need some sakuga on patlabor movies
those movies were so AWESOME
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 9:59
>>612 Need some sakuga on patlabor movies Need some [good animation] on patlabor movies
You don't make sense, do you know what 'sakuga' means?
Unless you meant you want a 'sakuga mad'.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 11:08
yeahh that's it
sorry
a Mad video !!!! (on youtube)
Holly mother of god. If I wasn't excited for this film before (and I was, because Takahata is one of my favourite directors) I sure as hell am excited now. Anticipation for this film is now off the charts for me. Coming out this summer? I'm going to go on a limb and say it will be the sakuga fest of the years. How many drawings did My Neighbors the Yamada's use? 200,000 something?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 13:37
According to wikipedia/Sony Pictures?, Steamboy used "only" 180,000 drawings. Half a million is quite something.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 16:53
Sakuga is by definition is "overanimation" since its specific better animated sequence in comparison with the rest of the show, with specific animator doing the said sequence as opposed to just providing needed key frames as required by storyboard in normal frequency as used in the show. More over- the INTENT of sakuga is "overanimation", to begin with its done to make outstanding parts attracting favor of the viewer and making specific scenes look/feel better.
Yeah, more trolling/retarded shit from /a/.
I'm getting bored if this kind of "discussion".
One interesting thing I noticed though, is that those "sakuga" presentation "lectures" on youtube are beginning to claim the wrong kind of victims (and I kinda know why) with people confusing sakuga, the English import/slang/whatever with 作画, which is just "key animation". And this is how you get retards/trolls who claim sakuga is overblllgghhrrhrh... can't write some stupid portmanteau like that.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 18:25
I just take 'sakuga' to mean good animation. Heck I tend to use it in at way where that's the only meaning it could/should have.
原画/Genga is 'key animation'
動画/Douga is 'inbetween'
Then you have 作画監督/sakuga kantoku which is generally translated as 'animation director'
Where 作画/sakuga means animation and 監督/kantoku means director.
From this sakuga should just mean 'animation'
In our case, we like the good animation, the bits that stand out. We call that 'sakuga'.
Does anyone agree? What does 'sakuga' mean to others?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 18:41
I prefer to use the term good animation, but the use of 作画 to mean good animation is pretty popular so sometimes I use it casually too.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 21:54
I use sakuga ironically
I seriously hope you guys do that too
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-19 23:49
>>625
I'm just going to pretend people are doing this when I see the buzzword being thrown around for no reason.
Mostly the equivalent of good film editing - good choice of cuts and transitions, nice action flow from scene to scene - and in-shot composition (how the characters/"actors" and various background details -say, furniture- are placed, how the image is framed etc). Fancy camera angles are more about the layouts, but the storyboarding does lead into them, which is why I usually talk about the storyboarding and layouts at the same time. Storyboarding is more about cut-to-cut, while layout is more about in-cut detail.
Best way to understand it is to look at some storyboards yourself, and see what the details in them consist of. Okiura's storyboards for Jin-Roh were posted earlier in this thread.
So is KyoAni really that fucked in schedules lately.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-20 13:18
>>650
If this is having fucked up schedules, then what's with... about every other show airing at any given point?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-20 13:22
>>649 >>650
Ouch. Still, how's the animation like? Despite last week's episode having multiple ADs, it still looked better than so many other shows this season.
Well if last week people were complaining of stills and background shot, this episode had very little of that. Character animation is pretty solid too, liked the part where Tamako was throwing a fit.
Storyboard is pretty good too. I enjoyed the part Tamako was panicking.
Sounds like he's gonna get along well with Koji Morimoto.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-20 16:43
Huh, despite the messed-up schedule, Tamako #11 was fine. Had some nice cuts, and all was well.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-20 16:44
Death Billiards was better than Arve Rezzle. Cool storyboarding, a lot of interesting cinematography tricks like playing with focus and zoom, nice art and colour direction (and post-processing filters that actually work at enhancing the image instead of creating visual puke). And the animation was great, and really good all around. The billiard balls were CG but they blend in nicely and the billiards scenes were very nice.
As an aside, the work as a whole kinda worked better from other perspectives too. Arve was more like a kind of pilot episode but this was pretty self-contained. Well made piece of work, all things considered. Not that anyone here wouldn't pick it up already, but it's recommended. And I think it's going to be cool to watch even if you don't know moon, because visually the short was very good.
>>667
I've always wondered... what is the theme of these videos?
It's always vaguely random new stuff with the oddball retro anime scene and one scene from Naruto thrown in.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-20 16:59
>>668
Just whatever random stuff the uploader feels like I suppose.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-20 17:35
>>668 >>669
I think most of them are random, but there are few that seem have to have theme
Yeah, all of his animator mads always include a clip from Naruto as well. Seems like he uses Naruto as a means to research an animator and goes from there.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-20 17:59
>>672
Not really, there are MADs of animators who have never worked on Naruto as well. Just recently there was that Hidehiko Sawada MAD for instance.
Nearly all of his work consits of porn flash games, a lot of uninteresting and repetitive movements. The small amount of non-porn stuff I've seen has very limited movement space.
>>702
It's true, we just care about how the animators look. That's why there are so many KyoAni fans here, since they're the studio with the most cute girls. Bunch of Kouno-chan fans too!
The action scene in Psycho-Pass' finale wasn't as good as I was expecting. It was okay and got the job done, but I was hoping for something like the fight several episodes back. Overall, PP's production values have been a bit of a letdown. I expected better from I.G.
I'm asking because at one point there were some rumors floating around that a whole episode would be redone for the BDs. Kinda interested to see what's up with the series but if it's done like shit I'd rather give up, fixed version or not.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-21 16:42
>>721
There was one episode that was a production disaster, obviously that would be redone for the blu ray. Psycho-Pass isn't exactly a slideshow, but don't expect any outstanding cuts. It's competent at best.
I saw the series , need to check the movies asap!!
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-22 0:19
>>730
Yes it's worth watching, Seven Arcs always produce some good stuff with nice animation. Yoshinari Kou shows up in pretty much all their projects, though he hasn't been in the Nanoha movies.
No, I'm just not edgy and teenage enough for Shitsekai Yori.
And a sakuga show it ain't. Which is what matters here. Average show with average everything. And just like any average show it has nice cuts here and there. The character settei was nice though. Especially the clothes.
>>754 >>755
We're just here to look forward to the good cuts, no one said anything about its overall production nor asked for your opinion on whether it's "edgy" or not.
Hmm, rotoscoped or not (I really don't care about that, sorry tracing haters) Aku no Hana is going to have very interesting storyboards and art direction. Very Hideaki Anno like, direction wise. Nice framing in general. Nagahama Hiroshi must be a good Dezaki student. He also did some design for Utena.
I hope the reason for not much of the actual animation being shown in trailers is to surprise the audience and not because it may look like shit, I'm actually looking forward to the rotoscope
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-22 14:18
Oh dear. And how is "I bet you're a Kyoani fag. Go suck your pedo moe shit faggot." animation related? I'm just replying to some faggot with the same currency he's replying to me. Internet drama a shit.
The cuts in the trailer didn't really look rotoscoped though. If it is and they "masked" it that well, well color me surprised and excited for that too.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-22 14:39
>>765
There's wasn't much animation shown in that trailer to be fair, so it's still up in the air as to whether the rotoscoping works. I wonder if there's a such thing as using rotoscope with limited animation?
Well, an obvious thing to do is skip frames when rotoscoping. Rotoscoping on 2s and 3s. Kinda like tracing over CGI with fewer frames or whatever. Didn't they do that for the K-ON opening and Kara no Kyoukai 5 fight? I may be remembering incorrectly.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-22 15:35
>>768 Didn't they do that for the K-ON opening and Kara no Kyoukai 5 fight?
The fact that the OP was detailed and he posted often also helped keep the discussion on topic. I'll keep that in mind when I start a new thread like that "down there". Yes, good thread it was. I'm more interested in cinematography and "directing" in general than animation itself myself.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 2:46
speaking of good direction, latest Sasami episode was pretty strong in that regard. No sakuga per se, but it had stellar storyboard/layout work and the art direction was actually good. Instead of those shitty post-processing FX, it had some good use of colors, especially in the background art.
Oh yeah, and speaking of colour direction, it's also very important. Take Texhnolyze for example. The layouts and storyboarding is amazing. Hamasaki Hiroshi really is a cinematographer at heart. You can also notice that in Shigurui and the Iron Man OVA (at least the trailers). But technolyze is kinda ruined by really shitty art and colour direction at times. It's so fucking dark it's hard to see anything. There kinda is a point to that choice but it's done poorly. Sure makes the good cuts stand out even more though. The whole "surface world" episodes were just amazing from this perspective.
Well, I was talking about framing and such, not post-processing and colour direction. Yes, that kind of post-processing is also an example of overuse that ends up being negative abuse which detracts from the experience.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 3:48
Since we're talking about directing - it is a real shame that Ozu Yasujirou doesn't really get the appreciation he deserves. Yes, he isn't an anime director, but the man is one of the most influential filmakers in history, in general. And in terms of cinematography, anime really owes a lot to Ozu Yasujirou, through the use of still shots/pillow shots that serve as transitions, breather scenes and so on. Obviously, the use of these kind of still shots in anime was stimulated by the fact that the productions are/were in general low budget, but as far as style is concerned, Ozu's influence is undeniable. The "pillow" shots were part of his personal signature style. Other people didn't use them during his time. Not in the way he did, in any case.
And it's this manner of using shots that really caught up on the Japanese side of filmmaking. In terms of legacy, Anno is great at this. Both in his anime and live action films. Evangelion episode 1 is already famous for how good it "looks" even though it was made on not that much cash. And a lot of the shots that make it look good, are "still life" / no "actors" shots. Whenever there is a "cicada scene" in Eva, it's supposed to show you that there it is always summer. But stylistically, that's Ozu Yasujirou. Cuts of street poles and wires? Roofs? Long shots with trains and train passes? Yes, that's because these things are very Japanese (hey travel by train a lot). But stylistically, that's Ozu.
None at hand. I'd have to look for some. But you can just watch some of the films he made. I'd say they're worth it, if only for the cinematography. Not sure the stories in his films are everyone's cup of tea. Kind of like Bergman.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 4:40
I don't get all this stuff about cinematography, how do I stop being a pleb?
Not exactly what you were looking for, but Nichijou had a lot of pillow shots in between skits. They would usually be spread throughout an episode and form a short story when taken together like the one with the city block over the course of a day.
Another thing about Ozu is the fact that the camera is almost always in a fixed position. That's yet another thing that comes off a lot in anime and was mentioned numerous times in that thread as well, how there are almost no track shots in anime and the like. If you're familiar with Hollywood from the same era, the difference between that style of moviemaking and Ozu's style is quite striking.
The low angle and great framing is something that will immediately jump at you. Here's some classic Ozu interior shots from Tokyo Story:
Interesting how there were a lot of mentions of "underdog" series like Sankarea, which was directed by Omata Shin`ichi, a guy from the ex-Shinbo crowd.
After being underground for most of the episode you get a really breathtaking wide shot of the surface. Kamina and Simon also get to see the Sun and Moon for the first time simultaneously.
Another type would be to use a lot of close ups and quick cuts during an action scene in a cramped area, rarely showing the entire body. I don't have any examples at the moment though.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 6:14
>>787 a lot of close ups and quick cuts during an action scene in a cramped area, rarely showing the entire body.
Yamauchi's directing in a nutshell
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 6:24
Yuasa really loves background animation. I wish there were more people like him. A shame. ;_;
Some nice animation at a couple of parts in SSY's finale. Despite its inconsistent production, the series did have some really nice episodes and cuts. I think Ishihama did alright, I wouldn't mind seeing another series directed by him next time.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 7:43
>>790
Maybe hand-drawn animation with CG overlay?
Something like KyoAni did in Munto.
I don't think it's unique to him, generally it's done for budget reasons and because you often don't have to draw as many lines / also used by people not as talented.
I noticed Yutapon often animates wide camera shots and full body motions, mostly because he's damn talented and is able to quickly draw at that level.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 8:15
>>791
I guess Ishihama suffered from a rushed production schedule like most TV anime?
I wonder how long Mitsuo Iso had to prepare Dennou Coil. Scheduling makes so much different when it comes to animation quality.
Much longer than the average TV series. I think I read somewhere that he had developed the idea since 2001, but didn't really get the funding/producers on board until much later.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 11:39
Damn, the first scene of SSY's finale is very impressive. Any idea who did that cut with Kiroumaru?
So I watched FMA Milos thanks to the posts about it earlier in this thread. I'm no sakuga expert, it's more of a newfound interest for me, and this movie did have some very nicely animated scenes, but I also felt like a lot of it was quite lacking. Due to my inexperience though it's hard for me to really tell where exactly the problems were. I think the issue mainly is that the character animation is generally lacking in detail (with some exceptions). Also Ed's face gets a bit of the old QUALITY in quite a few cuts, which can always be jarring and distracting.
Is it a storyboarding issue? A lot of the cuts have very distant shots, and some times the shots pan from close ground to distant ground, and of course you can't draw small objects with as much detail, but I think if that is an issue, you shouldn't just ignore it, you should make better use of camera angles and distance so that the level of detail isn't constantly fluctuating. Or do tracking shots (which I do recall it did have at some parts) so that characters aren't going from being highly detailed to... little blobs, basically.
It all just feels very inconsistent. It's constantly fluctuating from highly detailed to distant figures that are only slightly more detailed than stick-figures. I don't think it's fair to say the movie was badly animated, but I don't think it was great either (I mean about 2 or 3 scenes did impress me, but the rest not so much).
Though like I said, I'm new to this, so I'd like to hear what more experienced and educated people have to say about it.
I'm no expert either but I felt like a little kid in a sakuga christmas.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 14:31
>>800
Well, what stood out to me the most was the fight scene between Julia and Atlas after his reveal / betrayal (http://i.imgur.com/Uf6s0Gc.jpg), the fight was well choreographed and animated on its own, but the camera circling around them throughout the fight made it all much more impressive. Some other moments I enjoyed would be when Ed tries to stop Atlas from getting the philosopher's stone (http://i.imgur.com/sUoj8ju.jpg) and Julia's fight against her real brother (http://i.imgur.com/r2rexuR.jpg).
I think you might like this, it names the key animators in the various notable scenes throughout the movie.
That aside, it thought it was well-done animation wise. There was a lot of movement in general with a fair amount of cuts that I found to be impressive. The change in the art direction weren't entirely to my liking though, sometimes it looked a bit "rough", so maybe that has go to do with your issues with the detail changes. Still, the animation more than made up for the odd art so I felt it was a non-issue in the end.
Oh boy, I loved this scene. I mean, Satoru Utsunomiya... with corrections by Toshiyuki Inoue.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 15:45
>>802
The scene with Ed against Julia's brother by Yoshimichi Kameda is also really nice, I forgot to mention that one.
About the rough look, I suppose it's not a favorite, and it gets a bit jarring in this case because it looks very different from Brotherhood, but I think mainly it's just that it feels very inconsistent in that it doesn't really stay at a certain degree of roughness, it fluctuates a lot from really rough to... not so rough. I wasn't bothered by Mamoru Hosoda's Wolf Children for instance, which I think has a more rough and cartoony look rather than detailed and realistic. That movie felt very consistent from start to finish in the artwork and animation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 16:08
Also Ed's face gets a bit of the old QUALITY in quite a few cuts
Strange, I did not notice any.
It's constantly fluctuating from highly detailed to distant figures that are only slightly more detailed than stick-figures.
I don't really get where you're coming from but loss of detail is to be expected during animation. It's why the character are so much more simple compared to the backgrounds. Take even Miyazaki's film, which are obsessively "on model" (they go through a lot of check-ups and cleaning) and still, compare the backgrounds with the characters and the difference is obvious. Or look at any shot with background animation. The loss of detail is pretty much a necessity because few (if any, not even Ohira Shin'ya is that obsessed with detail) animators are insane enough to run themselves dry, redrawing small increments of the same picture over, and over, and over again.
And then, some movements feature very distorted bodies because they portray a very stylized motion. Hands in the air, the torso becoming a weirdly shaped blob during fast rotations etc. It does not matter how these individual frames look by themselves as much as it matters how they look in sequence, how the motion ends up being portrayed through animation.
Mamoru Hosoda's Wolf Children for instance, which I think has a more rough and cartoony look rather than detailed and realistic
With this you've got me really confused. What exactly do you mean by "rough"? Because while FMA I agree is "rough" at times (which I don't mind at all), Wolf Children is very, very clean (which I didn't mind either, although it kinda bugs me because I still can't figure out which cuts did Takaaki animate), in that it is very consistently drawn and a bit difficult to distinguish what animator did what cuts unless you pay a lot of attention. As for "cartoony"... Sure, you have those huge smiles as big as half their faces in Wolf Children, but any other "cartoony" things? Generally the character acting was fairly "realistic". And in FMA, the cartoony-ness comes from the super-deformed scenes and stylistic changes.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 16:27
The fight in the cage was my favourite scene in that film. Kameda did a great job with his cuts in it. Sure, some stuff, writing-wise, was cliche in there, like the backstab from the supposedly already dead chick, but whatever. You know what I mean.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 16:30
>>805
I'm not THAT new, you don't need to explain to me why animated characters and objects aren't as detailed as still background / scenery art or why individual frames will look odd, since that's not really my problem. I mean that is something present in every single anime out there, but I'm only talking about why FMA: Milos feels lacking. To be honest, a lot of the roughness feels more like a result of it being rushed than just having its own style.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 16:38
>>807
Well I pretty much said right there what I meant with it, that it's not so hung up on being detailed and realistic (compared to something like GitS or Jin-Roh) and I can imagine that's because it's easier to animate that way. And if that's not what you associate with roughness then I'm not sure what you mean.
With FMA:M the characters don't just look deformed in the action scenes though, it happens in varying degrees throughout the whole movie. Which is kinda what I mean here >>809 when I say it feels rushed.
you don't need to explain to me why animated characters and objects aren't as detailed
Okay, fair enough. You were excusing yourself a lot, but my bad for assuming wrongly.
As for the roughness of Milos being due to being rushed, I just can't find it in me to agree with that. After you mentioned that stuff, I thought a bit, and the only cut that might not have been up to snuff, was the one with a jump between trains, with Julia's brother (Melvin? It's been a while since I've seen it) being drawn as a single blob in a couple of frames. But I did not mind it at all because I've seen much "rougher" and "crazier" things, and all things considered, I thought those scenes were very nicely animated.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 16:40
>>809 >>810
Mind taking some screenshots to illustrate what you mean? I think that would be helpful.
Did you also have issues with those things in Brotherhood though? Because they occur there too. Which is why I'm inclined to say that it's a conscious, stylistic choice more than it is an oversight or a time contraint/budget issue.
>>813
Well, I'm always going to feel a bit bothered by inconsistent art, but I tend to have lower standards with TV shows, so in a way I'm less bothered with it there. If you're referring to specific key scenes that are done in a very personal style depending on which animator is hired for the scene (like this? http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/640/1351634515844.gif) then well, I'm not really sure where I stand there. If you just go with your own style and it completely contradicts what the show has going for it, then I think it's bad, but leaving a bit of yourself in your work is good too. I dunno, some times it's okay, at others it's too much. Just gotta balance it right, really.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 18:27
>>814
I remember some of those shots, I thought most of them were fine.That last picture of yours does look a bit weird though. The movie seemed to have a "loose" art style for the characters, but I'm inclined to think this was intentional.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 19:06
Saw gundam unicorn 6 and it was magnificient.
You want some beautiful animation and awesome acting animating from japanese ?
Get Gundam unicorn 6 but beware of the cliffhanger , it's horrible to do something like this
seriously i want to die now.
>If you just go with your own style and it completely contradicts what the show has going for it, then I think it's bad, but leaving a bit of yourself in your work is good too.
This is why some people consider NS 167 as the worst episode of the series.
I don't care about that, I'm only interested in nice/well animated scenes. I just leave the context behind. I'm not the only one, am I?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 19:27
>>818
If I'm really interested in the show, then it might be a bit of a problem due to the visual clash. Even then, it would take a lot for me to be bothered by a change(probably something like Osamu Kobayashi's Gurren Lagann episode comes to mind) and I'm still able to appreciate the animation for what it is. I may think the episode/scene could've used a less jarring style, but in the end I'm just happy there was some cool animation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-23 19:43
re: Gundam Unicorn character animation.
The animation is nice and detailed (most of the time), but it's unlike that of say KyoAni's best work or something from Wolf Children. It's quite different.
The scene that struck me the most was from episode 04 when Audrey is talking to the old man in the cafe.
I'm not very fan or familiar of kyoani so i can't tell
Wolf children : i didnt saw it yet (need to do it asap)
But i saw a true effort of making character more moving while they talk than the usual stuff and i really admired this.
Episode 04 i dont remember , if you are a youtube link maybe
I'll check all episodes in one time when complete
because it's hard to rememeber all the scenes(for me anyway)
Anyway , if someone say japanese animation is only action , i'll pop gundam unicorn already , it was impressive!
If you just go with your own style and it completely contradicts what the show has going for it, then I think it's bad
Me too. THat's why I hated Arasan's cuts at the festival in SSY. The flashback ones were fine. This didn't bother me in FMA: Sacred Star of Milos though because from the get-go it had a more loose approach to artstyle consistency. Actually, it applies all the way back to Brotherhood. If it's consistently inconsistent (heh) I am perfectly fine with that.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 6:32
Prism Nana confirmed for Pachinko.
This is so hilarious I'm in tears. Why?
I blame the atrocious characters design for part of that. But yes, those are only impressive inasfar as some effort was put into them. The fight choreography is very bland and safe, the "camera" work all over the place and so on and so forth.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 11:11
>>831
I think the first 15 seconds or so of Kameda's bit is really cool.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 11:18
>>831
If it wasn't for the timing, I wouldn't have suspected that was Kameda's scene. Not much of his usual flourishes in there.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 11:33
Nanoha character designs have always been horrible. I wish they'd use the updated designs from the artist from Nanoha Force who drew these http://i.imgur.com/tRQ7QxW.jpg
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 11:36
>>836
How the hell could they use Force's adult designs for an A's movie where they're still young?
No, no. Call things out for what they are. Few people are like that. The man has my appreciation for not being a pussyfaggot who hides truth behind politeness.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 15:24
>>846
How is saying "everything ever is a piece of shit" calling things for what they are?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 16:59
So SSY seems to not sell that much (shit)
What about psycho pass ?
>>848
You're better off asking this on /a/, this is the animation thread after all. Psycho-Pass is selling alright, around 7k sales I think.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 17:06
You are right , sorry dude(thanks for the sales )
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 17:16
>>847
Because everything ever is a piece of shit, duh.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 20:19
>>847
To be fair though, American animation is completely awful right now. No theatrical works will ever be made and most TV cartoons are horrible flash based piles of craps.
TV anime is also mostly crap, but animation in theatrical anime works does shine.
But western animators would probably never admit this since Japanese animation is "inferior"
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 20:57
when i saw SSY's finale , the beginning , i just can't compare this to western cartoons
this kind of EPIC , you'll never see that in stupid western cartoons
This old dude need to see some gundam unicorn before his end.
And yeah western animators are funny , they said japan is shit and they steal their animation techniques shameless , i'm kinda proud of not working with them right now.
Stupid ass holes
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 21:23
I would think that with these kind of threads one would be more more open and tolerant, after all, animation is animation, be it from America, Russia or Japan.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-24 21:26
I'm tolerant , i love a lot of different technique of various animators
Excessive detail is the cancer killing animation(and animators)
Miyazaki seems to not like the process of cel animation that much, I wonder what does he think about digital animation then?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 7:33
>>859
IIRC he took it up with open arms and incorporated some digital work into Princess Mononoke.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 7:48
>>854
Oh I'm tolerant, but I'm not tolerant of people who are intolerant.
I mean American animation has loads of great work, LOADS. Even European animation has many greats. Sure we may not talk much about it here since we're more about sakuga and anime but I think most people acknowledge their worth.
>>859
Well, the fewer lines there in one sheet to another then the easier it is for the animator to ease their workload. But I think the excessive detailed character designs in some newer TV anime shows has forced animators to really put the "2nd Key Animation" job into full power. 1st KA's will do the layout and rough poses then the 2ndKA animator will come along and fill in all the other details such as the clothing and accessories. Only then will it be passed on over to be inbetweened.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 7:53
Inbetweeners have all my sympathy. Best work in the world, shittiest job ever. No wonder so many people are looking for ways to properly automate the process.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 8:27
A really bad drawing can become tolerable when it is made into a cel picture, and a good drawing loses its power when it is made into a cel. In short, cels make both good and bad into mediocre
I agreed with this.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 8:53
Cel animation confirmed for old and busted
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 9:04
Does it really matter if it was done on cels or digitally? Jin-Roh and Blood still look great.
The latter is still my favorite thing in terms of digital post processing.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 9:09
Japanese animation started when we gave up moving.
>>861
I know , i never said that americans and europe can't draw
I just can't stand someone wich insult japanese while he is blatantly using their animation technique !!!
That's what i'm talking about.
SOme of them think they are superior , it's really annoying to live with people like that , believe me
But yeah there is great animators outside asia , of course.
>>867
It wasn't /that/ amazing. There are probably better examples of recent character animation (Wolf Children, A Letter to Momo, Niji-Iro Hotaru etc..)
>>873
2d animator is my specialty
I'm a freelance right now
I stopped animation a while and did some video game character animation , it's kinda refreshing ? i dont know
I could go back to animation soon , but honestly i heard some "so called animators" talking and i swear , you wonder yourself if the guy is trolling or not...
Anyway sorry if i was angry (i kinda lost a contract yesterday , very annoying feeling)
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 16:36
why
why
why can't we get away from this spam
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 16:51
>>878
where is Kanada? He should be A+
50% of those guys wouldn't be there without him =\
Name:
:(2013-03-25 17:04
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
Name:
:(2013-03-25 17:04
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
Name:
:(2013-03-25 17:04
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 17:14
Is the spam over?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 17:52
dare i ask this, should we go back to /anime/?
Name:
:(2013-03-25 19:29
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
Name:
:(2013-03-25 19:29
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
Name:
:(2013-03-25 19:29
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
Name:
:(2013-03-25 19:29
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
Name:
:(2013-03-25 19:29
King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama King Obama
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 19:35
maybe he wants to finish this thread ?
who is doing this ?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 19:37
I don't know, but I'll just see how it goes for this last bit of the thread.
since we were talking about direction earlier, what do you guys think of Chihayafuru? It doesn't have any sakooga but it's really well put together, to the point where I don't think good animation would make much of a difference. The layouts and storyboards are very detailed and they take advantage of the whole karuta thing to deliver some tense scenes. For example, the shot composition always frames the players in an elevated perspective with respect to the audience which gives the game a sense of vivid intensity. It also does post-processing/filters right, the bloom is only used during matches which really hammers in on that intensity. And it's one of the few anime that does sound design very well, they've really stepped up with the music and its implementation in the second season
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-25 22:30
>>913
wow, that CG is the awful. How old is Lucky Star now?
Downloaded the Naruto SD finale for fun since it's supposed to be a Sessha/Kouda episode. There was some really cool animation in the first half of the episode, good action and effects animation. I wonder who were the animators for that episode?
The first episode of Steins;Gate was... bad. Mediocre, more aptly put. The time-stop scene was okay. But I cannot stand the fucking bloom and gray filter. Should I expect any sakuga? The storyboarding was very good but I'd expect nothing less from Hamasaki Hiroshi.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-26 10:31
>>928
Nah, it's nothing special animation-wise. Some decent cuts from Hiroshi Tomioka at best, if I'm not mistaken.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-26 10:40
>>928
I think there was one bit in episode 11 or 12 that impressed me but other than that S;G is mostly average TV anime.
It's White Fox so there's really nothing special if we're talking about actual movement. Some action here and there, plus that bit where Okabe runs back to the apartment. I'd say their most well animated series is still Tears to Tiara.
>>933
He started off in 2004 and going by his picture it's safe to say he's in his 30s. Not that young, bit I suppose anyone under 40 can be considered to be "young".
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-26 12:10
>>933 >>934
I think he is about 3 or 4 years old than Shingo Yamashita
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-26 12:11
>>932
Is there any other good action animator besides Hiroyuki Yamashita on that list? I'm sure Yamashita did some of the fighting scenes, but I find it hard to believe he did all the impressive stuff. The episode really had quite a lot of well animated bits, but I can't recognize any other name on that list.
>>945
Not Arasan, haha no.
Hideki Tamura is an animator from the 80s era, the era Arasan tries to copy. Tamura was a very good animator following the Kanada style. But around 1989/1990 Tamura stopped doing animation and went to work on video games or something and never came back
He returned in 2012 for those Combattler animations, which is for a Pachinko game.
I said Obari because on the sakuga wiki it mentions Obari was influenced by Tamura.
Taking a peek at Chuu2Koi's production reveals that the resolution of KyoAni's lineart is higher than we thought http://i.imgur.com/bJ2rUUJ.jpg
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-26 20:39
>>948
Nice effects. I've never been a fan of character animation done in the Kanada style, but the effects are really cool. What do you call those frames that just flash momentarily whenever there's some significant explosion or action depicted? Something like this: http://i.imgur.com/IJcY8As.jpg
Why are you guys posting that nicoviewer shit and not the nico nico link directly? Do you get revenue for clicks or what? It's annoying as fuck. I still have to go to nico and watch it anyway because that crap is either slow as fuck or doesn't work altogether.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 7:15
>>950
I know of the thing you speak about, I don't think its something unique to Kanada style animators, but it is sort of a signature of the style. I'm sure there's a word for it but I don't know.
By the way guys, should we migrate back to /anime/?
Since there is a Captcha now.
>>954
Calm down, some people might not have Nico Nico accounts so nicoviewer lets them view it without having to register. That's all there is to it. Not sure why you're having problems with nicoviewer since it works fine for me.
>>963
This is boring. Fuck you Kyoani, I'm disappointed.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 12:03
Persona 3 Movie #1 Staff:
Original Work: Persona 3 (Atlus)
Movie #1 Director - Noriaki Akitaya
Script: Jun Kumagai
Character Design/Animation Director: Keisuke Watabe
Music: Shoji Meguro (Atlus)
Supervisor: Seiji Kishi
Animation Production: AIC ASTA
Pretty much. Scene with Dera running (yes, running, not flying) to the shopping district meeting with the prince had a few nice cycles, generally nice chara acting. There were a couple of scenes with weird running though, both scenes where Tamako & friends ran in a group. It looked stiff. But generaly, job well done.
Shame the contents of this show was shit...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 12:11
I, for one, welcome our Chuuni overlords. KyoAni's got themselves a new franchise to milk.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 12:17
And Ishidate will never get his directorial debut...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 12:20
ISHIHARA STRONG
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 12:21
Why the hell do they want to make a sequel at all? I think this is a Pony Canyon thing, K-On also got a sequel announced immediately after the first season. They seem willing to milk stuff more than Kadokawa, but Chuu2 being a Kyoani property makes even worse because it tells me they're not quite above that themselves.
I was expecting something new, maybe new director, but no, let's do more of the same shit. It wasn't even that big of a hit.
I still have hope for Chuu22 being 2014 and getting a Kadokawa thing in the middle like that twitter guy who comes in here said.
Chu2byou sold an average of 15,000 per volume = a hit no matter how you look at it (compare, Steins;Gate 17,000 per volume for example). Of course they'd see the finantial potential.
>>976
Yes, but compare with, for example, Lucky Star which sold 30k and nothing was ever done after it. It's a Pony Canyon thing/a Kadokawa thing about not doing sequels (which makes sense).
The finantial potential for Kyoani should be more apparent in relation with their LN brand, but in that case they could just have adapted a new property; what rubs me the wrong way is that a sequel just means stagnation; more of the same, same character designer, same director, same visual style, no new possibilities for the rest of the staff to progress. I wonder if Ishihara is the only guy in the studio who's up to the task of directing so many shows...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 12:30
K-on's sequel was understandable because it's pretty much phenomenal back when it was airing.
Chuu2 isn't even that popular.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 12:32
>>978
It's their biggest TV anime hit in a while, might as well cash in on that I guess.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 12:33
I wonder if a Hyouka sequel would have been well received more?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-27 12:37
>>980
I'd like that, but there's not enough source material.
That aside, I wasn't expecting a Chuuni sequel, or at least for one to be announced so soon. Hopefully there are also plans for adapting another of their own LNs.