I hope the reason for not much of the actual animation being shown in trailers is to surprise the audience and not because it may look like shit, I'm actually looking forward to the rotoscope
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Anonymous2013-03-22 14:18
Oh dear. And how is "I bet you're a Kyoani fag. Go suck your pedo moe shit faggot." animation related? I'm just replying to some faggot with the same currency he's replying to me. Internet drama a shit.
The cuts in the trailer didn't really look rotoscoped though. If it is and they "masked" it that well, well color me surprised and excited for that too.
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Anonymous2013-03-22 14:39
>>765
There's wasn't much animation shown in that trailer to be fair, so it's still up in the air as to whether the rotoscoping works. I wonder if there's a such thing as using rotoscope with limited animation?
Well, an obvious thing to do is skip frames when rotoscoping. Rotoscoping on 2s and 3s. Kinda like tracing over CGI with fewer frames or whatever. Didn't they do that for the K-ON opening and Kara no Kyoukai 5 fight? I may be remembering incorrectly.
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Anonymous2013-03-22 15:35
>>768 Didn't they do that for the K-ON opening and Kara no Kyoukai 5 fight?
The fact that the OP was detailed and he posted often also helped keep the discussion on topic. I'll keep that in mind when I start a new thread like that "down there". Yes, good thread it was. I'm more interested in cinematography and "directing" in general than animation itself myself.
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Anonymous2013-03-23 2:46
speaking of good direction, latest Sasami episode was pretty strong in that regard. No sakuga per se, but it had stellar storyboard/layout work and the art direction was actually good. Instead of those shitty post-processing FX, it had some good use of colors, especially in the background art.
Oh yeah, and speaking of colour direction, it's also very important. Take Texhnolyze for example. The layouts and storyboarding is amazing. Hamasaki Hiroshi really is a cinematographer at heart. You can also notice that in Shigurui and the Iron Man OVA (at least the trailers). But technolyze is kinda ruined by really shitty art and colour direction at times. It's so fucking dark it's hard to see anything. There kinda is a point to that choice but it's done poorly. Sure makes the good cuts stand out even more though. The whole "surface world" episodes were just amazing from this perspective.
Well, I was talking about framing and such, not post-processing and colour direction. Yes, that kind of post-processing is also an example of overuse that ends up being negative abuse which detracts from the experience.
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Anonymous2013-03-23 3:48
Since we're talking about directing - it is a real shame that Ozu Yasujirou doesn't really get the appreciation he deserves. Yes, he isn't an anime director, but the man is one of the most influential filmakers in history, in general. And in terms of cinematography, anime really owes a lot to Ozu Yasujirou, through the use of still shots/pillow shots that serve as transitions, breather scenes and so on. Obviously, the use of these kind of still shots in anime was stimulated by the fact that the productions are/were in general low budget, but as far as style is concerned, Ozu's influence is undeniable. The "pillow" shots were part of his personal signature style. Other people didn't use them during his time. Not in the way he did, in any case.
And it's this manner of using shots that really caught up on the Japanese side of filmmaking. In terms of legacy, Anno is great at this. Both in his anime and live action films. Evangelion episode 1 is already famous for how good it "looks" even though it was made on not that much cash. And a lot of the shots that make it look good, are "still life" / no "actors" shots. Whenever there is a "cicada scene" in Eva, it's supposed to show you that there it is always summer. But stylistically, that's Ozu Yasujirou. Cuts of street poles and wires? Roofs? Long shots with trains and train passes? Yes, that's because these things are very Japanese (hey travel by train a lot). But stylistically, that's Ozu.
None at hand. I'd have to look for some. But you can just watch some of the films he made. I'd say they're worth it, if only for the cinematography. Not sure the stories in his films are everyone's cup of tea. Kind of like Bergman.
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Anonymous2013-03-23 4:40
I don't get all this stuff about cinematography, how do I stop being a pleb?
Not exactly what you were looking for, but Nichijou had a lot of pillow shots in between skits. They would usually be spread throughout an episode and form a short story when taken together like the one with the city block over the course of a day.
Another thing about Ozu is the fact that the camera is almost always in a fixed position. That's yet another thing that comes off a lot in anime and was mentioned numerous times in that thread as well, how there are almost no track shots in anime and the like. If you're familiar with Hollywood from the same era, the difference between that style of moviemaking and Ozu's style is quite striking.
The low angle and great framing is something that will immediately jump at you. Here's some classic Ozu interior shots from Tokyo Story:
Interesting how there were a lot of mentions of "underdog" series like Sankarea, which was directed by Omata Shin`ichi, a guy from the ex-Shinbo crowd.
After being underground for most of the episode you get a really breathtaking wide shot of the surface. Kamina and Simon also get to see the Sun and Moon for the first time simultaneously.
Another type would be to use a lot of close ups and quick cuts during an action scene in a cramped area, rarely showing the entire body. I don't have any examples at the moment though.
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Anonymous2013-03-23 6:14
>>787 a lot of close ups and quick cuts during an action scene in a cramped area, rarely showing the entire body.
Yamauchi's directing in a nutshell
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Anonymous2013-03-23 6:24
Yuasa really loves background animation. I wish there were more people like him. A shame. ;_;
Some nice animation at a couple of parts in SSY's finale. Despite its inconsistent production, the series did have some really nice episodes and cuts. I think Ishihama did alright, I wouldn't mind seeing another series directed by him next time.
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Anonymous2013-03-23 7:43
>>790
Maybe hand-drawn animation with CG overlay?
Something like KyoAni did in Munto.
I don't think it's unique to him, generally it's done for budget reasons and because you often don't have to draw as many lines / also used by people not as talented.
I noticed Yutapon often animates wide camera shots and full body motions, mostly because he's damn talented and is able to quickly draw at that level.
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Anonymous2013-03-23 8:15
>>791
I guess Ishihama suffered from a rushed production schedule like most TV anime?
I wonder how long Mitsuo Iso had to prepare Dennou Coil. Scheduling makes so much different when it comes to animation quality.
Much longer than the average TV series. I think I read somewhere that he had developed the idea since 2001, but didn't really get the funding/producers on board until much later.
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Anonymous2013-03-23 11:39
Damn, the first scene of SSY's finale is very impressive. Any idea who did that cut with Kiroumaru?
So I watched FMA Milos thanks to the posts about it earlier in this thread. I'm no sakuga expert, it's more of a newfound interest for me, and this movie did have some very nicely animated scenes, but I also felt like a lot of it was quite lacking. Due to my inexperience though it's hard for me to really tell where exactly the problems were. I think the issue mainly is that the character animation is generally lacking in detail (with some exceptions). Also Ed's face gets a bit of the old QUALITY in quite a few cuts, which can always be jarring and distracting.
Is it a storyboarding issue? A lot of the cuts have very distant shots, and some times the shots pan from close ground to distant ground, and of course you can't draw small objects with as much detail, but I think if that is an issue, you shouldn't just ignore it, you should make better use of camera angles and distance so that the level of detail isn't constantly fluctuating. Or do tracking shots (which I do recall it did have at some parts) so that characters aren't going from being highly detailed to... little blobs, basically.
It all just feels very inconsistent. It's constantly fluctuating from highly detailed to distant figures that are only slightly more detailed than stick-figures. I don't think it's fair to say the movie was badly animated, but I don't think it was great either (I mean about 2 or 3 scenes did impress me, but the rest not so much).
Though like I said, I'm new to this, so I'd like to hear what more experienced and educated people have to say about it.