Yusibu
Takeuchi alone can't carry the show, all the episodes without him will look like crap
Galilei Donna
Gets fucked over by A-1 scheduling
Yozakura Quartet
Gets fucked over by Tatsunoko scheduling
Kyoukai no Kanata
No Ishidate on key animation, will look relatively average due to Kyoani spreading their resources over three consecutive shows
Gundam BF
Only Obari's episode will look good
Kyousogiga
Gets fucked over by Toei being cheapskate jews
Kill la Kill
Gets hijacked by Sanzigen CGI
Is your body ready for Sakuga Fall?
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Anonymous2013-10-03 11:51
From the previous thread:
Coppelion has great direction and layouts, it's so good you don't really care for the overall subpar animation.
That whole post...I don't know which fraction has less brain, the trolls or the wannabe-sakuga-fans, but the combination of both is at it's own tier. That's for sure.
Some old-school sakuga while waiting for Kill-la-Kill to air
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Anonymous2013-10-03 13:13
I demand a new list of classification animators of japan !!
from 2013 of course
need to know where norimitsu stands ...
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Anonymous2013-10-03 13:36
Kill la Kill #1 was great. Cheap cuts everywhere but a lot really cool shit too.
And I liked the flood of Dezaki cards. Fantastic start for Sakuga Fall. I don't even care if Ryotimo and Umetsu succeed or fail anymore. This and Kyoukai no Kanata will be enough for me.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 13:41
It's a strong first episode but I still think TTGL#1 was better.
Much, much better.
It had a better theme and story behind it.
I think that was the best thing, so it could make more with it and had some really cool stand-out scenes.
That's because it it isn't. He's making an impossibly long leap. Maybe it could have worked better by exaggerating the tension in the muscles but that wouldn't have fit the overall animation style in the OP.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 14:33
Saw KlK. The intro fight was gooooooood (except the CG) but the episode is filled with drags and stills I was just ughhhh, really? I don't like this very limited style. The last fight in the ring with the boxer was kinda meh. And why no ED? Are they having production issues already?
I'm getting technical here, but that cut lacks anticipation. They fail to show him bending his knees for the jump and the effects make it look like he has jet shoes instead.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 14:47
>>24
>12 KAs and a single key animator
>production issues
Anon, please.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 15:02
KLK 1 reminded me of LWA + Panty & Stocking.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 15:34
>>23
The jump is not that ridiculous. Pretty sure you can find on youtube of someone taking off from the free throw line to the basket.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 15:44
the joke is that he doesn't jump high enough for a dunk.
Not trying to bait anything, but KlaK had way too many still shots and pans. Some people said that's just how Imaishi rolls, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to feel about that. Shaking an illustration on the screen is not good animation to me no matter how I look at it...
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Anonymous2013-10-03 16:41
Imaishi is more about an unique way of doing limited animations than "sakuga".
I don't really understand how people can call Kill La Kill a "sakuga" show. KnK basicaly rapes Kill la Kill in the animation department.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 16:42
+style
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Anonymous2013-10-03 16:57
Kill La Kill
limited animations
CG
and not even a handful well drawn cuts.
What the hell all action scenes in Kill la Kill were CG.
Outside of the trap door cut there was nothing sakuga related.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 17:37
KLK actually had a lot of animation for minor movements. It reminded me a lot of LWA. There was a lot of great visual characterization. Like the bit with tired Ryuuko trying to flap her sword around after she gets beaten up by the boxing guy. And it had a lot of lip and face animation. But like LWA it was just consistently good looking and it didn't have the usual HEY LOOK AT ME money shot.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 17:43
Comparing KLK to LWA in the animation department is just insulting.
The first two action scenes were CG and only the short action cuts at the end were hand-drawn.
It was flashy Imaishi but nothing outstanding in the animation department.
You mean like shaking the head of that loli with a bob-cut by just moving around a single drawing? No thanks.
Where's that "it's an animation joke" faggot now? I can't follow this series. I'm going to wait for MADs with the good cuts from it. I'm sure it'll have some. Unless Yoshinari and Sushio also turn into Imaishi for his show.
The CGI was shit. I knew something smelled funny when all those pre-air reactions felt bought.
That's one of the 12 principles of animation isn't it. Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. I guess it's kind of intuitive.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 21:45
Despite all the CGI KLK #1 was quite well done. It didn't have something amazing like Yoshinari's intro sequence of Gurren Lagann #1 but KLK was still pretty lively and stylish. At the very least, the visuals are better than Gurren Lagann's. Not bad at all so far, and here's hoping episode 2 steps up on the hand-drawn animation.
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Anonymous2013-10-03 22:19
can someone post the shows of the season that are must see? Kill la Kill, I believe Kyousogiga and Kyoukai no Kanata, right? Anything else?
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Anonymous2013-10-04 1:04
>>50
Yozakura Quartet and Galilei Donna, starting next week. Maybe Gundam BF and Yusibu for Obari and Takeuchi respectively.
I think Ishidate doing some scenes are causing him quite a problem. Let's face it, the opening episode for KnK wasn't really well directed. Ishidate's a good episode director and I think he has the stuff to make a good director. Him still touching KAs is really worrisome.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 2:27
>>52
I doubt it will be an issue. The fact that he did the OP with and only with Kadowaki seems to show they had a lot of time on production. KyoAni usually brings a ton of their veterans to their OPs. Nichijou OP had like all their top guys and totaled 20 some animators. The fact only 2 appeared in KnK's OP says to me that 1. Ishidate really is a perfectionist, and 2. he had planned to handle it with Kadowaki alone the entire time.
Ai Yukimura is someone to keep an eye on.
She recently joined KyoAni, and did KA for OP, ED and two best looking episodes of Free!(Kigami's episode and the finale). She's also an assistant director on Chuunibyou movie.
>>57
Yeah I first noticed her in Chuunibyou movie credits.
Pretty interested to see a new veteran(?) join KyoAni. Perhaps she moved to Kyoto recently or something and couldn't commute to Tokyo for work.
I mean, I can't call that 2 to 3 frame junk good animation. Only that last cut with the munching was decent. And it was just that, decent.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 4:33
I wish people wouldn't troll Kill la Kill here.
It's not a sakuga festival.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 4:56
Why are you guys "disappointed" and all with Kill la Kill? I and others told you weeks ago that this is how it's going to be. Don't expect consistency. The series will most likely have some set-piece moments that will have every chance to blow you away, but as a counterbalance to that it will also have a lot of... well, what you saw in episode 1. That's how Imaishi does things (and yes, it's shit, but whatever). The only exception (which isn't that big of an exception) is Dead Leaves, because that's a 1 episode OVA. TTGL was done like this too (although not to this degree, arguably).
Like I said when those first PVs came out or whenever, anyone who was expecting animation bonanza from Imaishi after the trash that was Panty & Stocking was dreaming. You won't get that. TRIGGER will put all their effort in a handful of key episodes (especially toward the end of the series) and the rest will be a collection of patchworks to allow for that increased concentration for whatever they think that matters.
Just wait for the likes of Hiramatsu, Amemiya, Yoshinari, Sushio etc. to show their stuff in the show. In the meantime, expect more and try to find the humor in shit like this:
I actually like those cheap animation in Imaishi's shows...
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Anonymous2013-10-04 5:34
Trigger apologists in full force eh? It's ironic how many of the people who were raging over SnK getting posted here because it was full of still frames are now doing a 180 degree turn because this thing has Imaishit and the garbage in it is a "feature", not a flaw.
"Kanada style" a shit. Blow me.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 5:47
SnK is still a bad looking anime, though.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 5:56
>>68
Kill la Kill's still frames are stylish and provide visual impact. SnK's are just plain ugly and exist due to the rushed production.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 6:00
>>68
I dunno man, the corner-cutting is there but there are some pretty well-animated scenes. You not liking the style is completely different from that.
I didn't complain about Titans though, but the sakuga cuts themselves weren't my cup of tea either. KlK didn't really impress me, but Imaishi shows also get hyped because of all the cool people that get involved with them. I mean, guys like Yoshinari, Hisashi Mori and others.
Maybe you should pay more attention? The student pile and even the guy rolling over the ground was CGI with an extra layer of lineart over it. Go rewatch the episode. The first action scene was more than half CGI (and no, not just the background). The chain was a notable cut that was 2D hand drawn. And let's not even talk about the boxing scene because if you did not spot the CGI even there then you might as well be legally blind.
SnK had moments with good animation. If you post those scenes, no one would have a problem. Also, SnK is bad because of a terrible production, not of stylistic reasons like with Kill la Kill episode 1.
KLK will still be great-animated, just wait.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 6:50
>>72
"The first two action scenes were CG" means they were full CG.
Not him and he might have missed a word or two. Either way, the first two action scenes are choke full of CG. They might as well have been full CGI with how few hand drawn cuts they had.
Well I found that the adaptation of the introduction be quite subpar to what I was hoping. I really don't know who to blame.
I would really want to blame Hanada since he does have his moments where he fucks up scenarios(Chuunibyou) but then what is a supervisor that doesn't lead the script writer.
Don't get me wrong though, I did love a lot of parts in that episode but it's just that glaring disconnect in the scenes and pacing that just remind me why Tamako came out lackluster. I fear that it might suffer the same fate as Munto with it just being nothing more than a technical showcase of animation which I think is not really bad since we're on the sakuga thread.
Ishidate already said he doesn't want to change stuff writing wise (he said that he liked the novel as is or something, can't remember exactly). Maybe he just doesn't care about that aspect, which is another problem in and of itself.
Yeah, Tamako's first ep had that disconnect between scenes too even if it was one of the better looking episodes this year. I always wondered how they did it with Hyouka since that was two separate stories in one ep but it still came out right. That last scene is just great and really wraps it up nicely.
>>84
Gainax were at that time already an established studio. There were no budget problems or something, while Trigger don't have it that easy for their first work apparently. PSG was also an flop.
If they do more (successful) anime, they will get the chance to do a fully hand-drawn anime like TTGL again. Though I wonder, Imaishi said KLK will be 90% hand-drawn IIRC.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 9:51
Not even Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was fully hand-drawn but, IIRC, Otsuka actually said Kill la Kill will have less(!) CG than it. And that's just adding salt to the wound because this
is making me die a little inside. Why lie? It just makes things worse...
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Anonymous2013-10-04 10:36
Let's make it clear.
KILL LA KILL has a VERY LOW BUDGET
BUT
That doesn't mean it's going to be shit because the director knows how to be
creative and funny with such a shitty budget.
Sakugavise, it will not totally fill our expectations,
but we will see some good sakuga later here and there.
There is not enough money for Kill La Kill to make cool sakuga the whole time
but Imaishi is trying his best to make a cool anime by using cinematography, color and layout design, with heavy sound to create climax.
I think he is doing something creative here with a very low budget.
And I respect Kill La Kill for pulling off something like this with a low budget.
They are doing all they can to make a good show, even if there is no money for it.
I dunno; KLK 1 had 11 key animators, 1 second key animator and a single animation director. You gotta respect that, they are pacing themselves really well.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 10:52
TTGL wasn't exactly a high-budget show.
One episode only costed 10 million yen, IIRC.
Not every episode dude. They had key episodes for which they poured more resources. If they had money and staff to do 20,000 drawings per episode TTGL wouldn't have had stock footage and a dozen episodes with significantly less drawings. The series was uneven.
That's how Imaishi manages projects.
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Anonymous2013-10-04 13:06
Yusibu #1 KA: Tetsuya Takeuchi, Hirofumi Suzuki, Koji Yabuno, Takahiro Chiba
>>122
I feel very honored that you think I'm Takeuchi's best fan, but this is the first post I've made in this thread.
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Anonymous2013-10-05 2:04
Man, Takeuchi's intro in Yusibu was so good. Pretty solid animation for the rest of the episode too. But I'm inclined to think the non-Takeuchi episodes will look rubbish as >>2 speculates.
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Anonymous2013-10-05 4:26
>>124
Of course they will, the generic blandness was already creeping up into the show at some points in the episode, even with all the solid animation.
>>128
There are 7 four scenes based on different camera angles.I am speaking about the sixth one (when we are getting to see the old man's head reflecting "sun rays", with his righ hand up)
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Anonymous2013-10-05 6:34
>>130
He's not sure, that is why he added "presumed" tag.
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Anonymous2013-10-05 6:45
>>130
Why don't you ask him in the "comments" section? Also, the whole fight should be from Takeuchi. And he's not the only one who thinks that, so stop with that bullshit.
Takeuchi never fails to deliver. He is one of the best.
But I hope he will use his superior animation skills on something less echii.
I don't give a fuck personally but I think more people would see his work if he would work on more interesting anime shows.
Personally I enjoyed his animation more than all the animations in Kill La Kill.
I'm just talking about the animation, not the show itself.
Kill La Kill was great!
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Anonymous2013-10-05 8:28
>>135 Personally I enjoyed his animation more than all the animations in Kill La Kill.
How could you enjoy the animation itself of one show more than the animation from another show?
It's not about having more movement,
it's about having interesting movement.
That's why I enjoyed Takeuchi's animation.
The movement is a lot more interesting than all the moves in Kill La Kill imo.
>>137 It's not about having more movement,
it's about having interesting movement.
I know that Yuushibu episode had more animation than KLK #1 and the better cuts with the opener. Still utter bullshit what you and the other guys are talking about. Interesting is something personally, something that never describes animation.
The only factor is the movement; the more the merrier. It's the only way to compare animation, so stop being idiots you wannabe sakuga fans.
>interesting is something personally, something that never describes animation.
Interesting is something personally
Yes, I think so too, so that's not an argument.
Da fuk?
something that never describes animation.
something that never describes animation.
something that never describes animation.
something that never describes animation.
something that never describes animation.
something that never describes animation.
??????
What's your problem man?
Do you even know what you are writing about?
I'm leaving too, this place is junk.
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Anonymous2013-10-05 10:08
>>133
Screw you man, this is an animation-based question, don't you think? So having it posted here is all but a bullshit. If you such an expert, maybe you ought to explain...
How well it moves. If attention is given to weight, consistency from drawing to drawing (no melting or sliding of features), physics etc. This mostly applies to realistic animation but good stylization still has its basis in realism.
While things like framing and backgrounds contribute to overall visual impact, they are still separate from movement.
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Anonymous2013-10-05 14:20
Kuroko no Baske 2 OP solo work by Nakazawa Kazuto
No wonder why it looked too damn good
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Anonymous2013-10-05 14:49
Shouko Nakamura is storyboarding/directing episode 2 of Kill la Kill.
Hajime no Ippo: Rising OP KA - Hiromi Ishigami, Hidehiko Sawada, Takashi Tomioka, Masayuki Kouda
If Shouko Nakamura is coming, can we expect some Umakoshi with her?
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Anonymous2013-10-05 18:46
>>154
If you have two different cuts at 24fps on 1s, with the EXACT same amount of frames, how do you decide which is better? Both have the same "amount" of movement you know? Or do you mean diegetic movement of the things animated? So large-scale action is inherently better than character acting because the characters "move more"?
The Chuu2 cut is actually one twos but it still moves better.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 3:00
I did not join the discussion so far (I rarely post here), but I'll chip in and say that character acting is the epitome of good animation. It is painfully hard to get right - which is why more often than not, especially in anime, character acting relies on symbolic action and visual cliches to convey a character's personality /emotions etc- and even harder to do well. And this goes beyond technicalities like physically believable movement or hiding your key frames. When you do character acting you have to defeat an obstacle that action or effects animation does not have: the incredible familiarity the viewer has with the subject. It's easier to fake a couple of swords slashing or a bomb blowing up than a smile or a frown, because your audience sees one a lot more often than the other and can spot the flaws in it much easier (we could bring in a side-subject about the uncanny valley and all that at this point).
"Weight and momentum" is not all that matters. There's also expressivity, what a cut of animation "communicates" to the audience.
Sadly, most "sakuga" fans are not actually fans of animation at large, but fans of good action scenes. Just looking through this thread makes that a dead give-away. Or looking at those MAD abominations that are 90% 'xction and 'splosions. Or maybe I am the odd one. Whatever.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 4:15
>>168 those MAD abominations that are 90% 'xction and 'splosions
Have you considered the possibility that good action/effects animation are more common than good character acting in the first place when it comes to most anime?
I think it's more because the "normal sakuga" fans come from old shounen shows when the short but well-animated action scenes were the only reason why people were watching the show in the first place.
Just look how much attention Imaishi gets although his style is just a copy-paste of old Dezaki and Kanada nonsense.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 5:07
>>168
This is very true, but I think even beyond technicalities, good animation can 'communicate' without having characters emoting or whatever. I don't want to sound pretentious (I know I will), but I think Iso's rocks in RahXephon "speak" quite a bit as a work of animation, beyond being just well-observed. Same for Ohira's simple movements done with his particular approach- Wanwa has a ton of scenes without any acting or even without any discernible character, really, but it's pretty profound in the way abstract painting is. It gets to the core.
That said, there's plenty of good acting in Japanese animation, and I don't think using symbols is all that bad- it's when those symbols lose their freshness and start being used in trite ways. With animation you practically can't avoid relying on symbols, literal acting works with real people because they have all the facial and bodily features that subtly communicate emotions, whereas animation designs will be stylized one way or another basically by necessity. Thus your movement has to be stylized to exploit that.
Junkers Come Here, Only Yesterday, My Neighbours the Yamadas, A Letter to Momo, Hosoda's films, Tokyo Godfathers. All of those have really good character acting and they come from roughly different (but not THAT different in most cases) traditions.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 5:11
>>167
Yeah I was arguing against the "frames" guy. Maybe a weird example on my part, but my point was that the amount of frames doesn't matter. I agree with you.
>>179
Not impressed by the opening animation.
The older openings were cooler.
Yozokura Quartet OP is definitely out.
Now waiting for Kill La Kill OP and Space Dandy OP.
Kazuto Nakazawa is this years Nr.1 OP animator.
I wonder if Kill La Kill can top that.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 12:12
>>162 If you have two different cuts at 24fps on 1s, with the EXACT same amount of frames, how do you decide which is better?
That's stupid. I mean cuts were you can see that there is more movement than in others. And yes, action scenes have generally more movement than character animation, because there is usually not only the animated character, but additionally the background, other characters, the action himself and so on.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 12:14
Nakazawa OP is this months most interesting sakuga.
>>182
Space Dandy would be a perfect fir for Nakazawa.
Dandy's character designs fits great to his dynamic style and the way he draws human body.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 12:20
>>184
I'm sure he will work on Space Dandy.
Just look at his work resume.
He did solo OP for Kids on the Slope.
He did the character design for Samurai Champloo
Worked on Watanabe's Animatrix
that guy screams for Space Dandy.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 12:21
>>165
What's the problem? The second pic alone looks like sakuga material:
And why should I be the troll? Also, except for Michiko Hatchin I think (when they were good) anyone without the knowledge would say a manglobe series is unfinished.
Quite possible that they have production problems, but since it's the first time and the anime is 2 cour I would think otherwise. Something content-related maybe.
Is there some ceremony wich celebrates animator in japan
I dont know how to explain that
There is the anime grand prix (dont know the exact english name) where you can see madoka tv series won or K-on
I want to know if there is a category animation , and if there is some celebration for great animator like ISO or INOUE.
Also there is websites wich list BUDGET of tv series ?
If i want to check how cost shingeki , it's possible ?
I dont even ask the salary of animator since i'm pretty sure i will not find out.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 16:53
>>186
How are >>168>>171 troll posts? We were pretty polite and tried to make some point, I gave examples of films even.
I think you just hate discussing.
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Anonymous2013-10-06 17:56
What does Main Animator mean?
I thought it means, that the animator will be working regularly in the show, like Nozomu Abe in Accel World.
but I was looking to Kazuto Nakazawa profile, and saw that he was Main Animator (eps 11, 13), Key Animation (OP1, ED2; 14,17,24,25).
So is Shinbo. Your point? It's not like Imaishi is doing 100% of the work in KLK. Gurren Lagann wasn't this bad by any means. So far the production seems more similar to Panty and Stocking, and I'm not saying that in a good way.
And Shinbo doesn't put a high focus on "sakuga", exactly my point.
Gurren Lagann was the playground of various creative people - it was more or less the final work of the post-EVA Gainax staff, while Panty and Stocking and Kill La Kill are completly his things.
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Anonymous2013-10-10 15:20
Gurren Lagann was pretty cheap at times, though.
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Anonymous2013-10-10 15:38
Pokemon Origins is a better anime than KlK
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Anonymous2013-10-10 15:41
I think only Osamu Kobayashi's Kill La Kill episode will be great.
Kobayashi is fucking serious.
You will all see, Kobayashi is not like the others.
It will have genius sakuga,
genius design
and genius story.
But again, even a genius Kobayashi episode can not save a whole show, it needs more.
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Anonymous2013-10-10 15:48
Only Tadashi Hiramatsu and Osamu Kobayashi can bring freshness to Kill La Kill.
I don't see any hope in Imaishi.
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Anonymous2013-10-10 15:50
The problem with Imaishi as director is that
he is not looking forward,
he is looking back and he is trying to be like the old guys.
He should think about himself instead and what he wants to do, not what was done before.
I'm tired of the excuse of people coming up with Trigger schedule is short, Trigger has no money
no, that's not the reason why the animation quality isn't interesting.
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Anonymous2013-10-10 15:56
When I watched the Ustream session of Kameda few weeks ago,
he said something that really got my respect.
He said that he was worried about his future, that people would see him just as a copy-cat, so he threw everything away and started from scratch, going his own path of animation. Thats why he hasn't been active lately, he is studying to create something fresh.
I wish him good luck and great success and hopefully he will make it.
Although, I think his Kanada style was fully developed, but it was still not 100% Kameda even if it felt like his type of Kanada.
People like Imaishi can't throw things away and start from scratch.
Good luck Kameda, you are the man.
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Anonymous2013-10-10 15:59
I think the Kill La Kill OP was good.
But the ending was total shit.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-10 16:00
>>250
they were both shit except the transformation part by Hiramatsu.
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Anonymous2013-10-10 16:02
Kill La Kill is good,
but can we all agree that it's not as good as Gurren Lagann?
I think you guys should just get over the fact that Kill la Kill is not the sakuga bomb we were expecting.
The animation is nothing special, but the show delivers under every other aspect, so who cares. Really, if only we could get a should like this every season instead of all the lame crap that we get regularly, which even with the best animation in the world ends up boring me within 10 minutes.
Go watch Kyoukai no Kanata or Yozakura Quartet or something, if you can manage that without falling asleep. It's not like this season lacks well animated stuff.
The animation is weak but
Kill la Kill is a better show than all those other shits.
But Kill La Kill is probably Imaishi's worst show.
But again, I agree with you, there is nothing better to watch.
But Kill la Kill is a total shit compared to Gurren Lagann.
Just take a look at the story.
There is this bitch that wants to kill some other bitch because she thinks that bitch killed her father. WOW that's so interesting, I don't give a fuck.
And I bet at the end, she was wrong about that bitch.
Also, there is almost no time given to us to feel any symphathy for the characters and their actions.
Kill La Kill is a fucking fanservice bullshit hiding under the great designs of Sushio, they are wasting great talents on this.
I saw it coming after I saw her hentai dress.
Just exchange the character design of Sushio with Kyoani designs in your mind and you will see what I mean.
I can't believe they want to pull this shit off for over 26 episodes.
How are things going to develop through the story when there is no story?
And the characters are flat as I don't give a fuck.
I'm angry because they hyped this show fucking up to the top of my ass.
And it didn't reached what they were promising.
Fucking Trigger and their ass marketing propoganda.
All those fucking comments from the early screening, fuck them!
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Anonymous2013-10-10 18:44
also
Little Witch Academia would have been a better show for Trigger.
But I guess the producers don't fuck with that.
>>255 The animation is nothing special, but the show delivers under every other aspect, so who cares.
This is an animation thread, you know?
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Anonymous2013-10-10 23:24
I really really realy want to like KLK and want it to be successful so that guys at Trigger can produce more ambitious projects in the future, but I find the story uninteresting. The characters are unlikeable to me. The music doesn't fit the mood of the show most of the time. The animation is, well, you know.
The only thing I really like in the show is the art direction.
I might drop the show if it doesn't get better and wait for its sakuga MAD.
Ohira was a Kanada-school animator when he was young too, wasn't he?
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Anonymous2013-10-11 1:26
>>263
Started out as a Masahito Yamashita copycat, underwent a traumatic experience animating millions upon millions of cels worth of background animation for those LD games, became maniacal about moving everything, started doing humans after Gosensozama, ended up doing Hamaji, retired, came back as a weird mix of his previous realist style and ultra-abstract sensibilities that resulted in wanwa.
The guy's an outlier in terms of stylistic evolution.
Started Kanada school, underwent a Mitsuo Iso phase and turned into the realist animator he is now, similar to Ohira.
I would be amazed if Kameda turned into a more realist animator.
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Anonymous2013-10-11 7:05
>>267
Mori is considered to be a realist animator?
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Anonymous2013-10-11 7:43
Kill la Kill episode 2 is filled with software tweening. This series is officially shit.
Dropped. Live a buzz if there is any good cut in a future episode.
Dezaki, Dezmaki. What do you mean Dezaki? Because the episodes are full of "postcard memories"? This series is no different than a shitty western cartoon. Some anon said above it's like P&S? Yeah, I agree with that. Same philosophy western animation has fallen pray to in the last decade. Cheap _as_ whacky - CG, flash, digital tweening, transparent slides etc All hidden behind the art direction as a design choice. Cow and Chicken wasn't animated like shit though. It was just whacky animation. Kill la Kill is like these recent shitty Cartoon Network series, only made by the Japanese and with homages to old Japanese series. Awful. Just awful.
I pray it flops. If it's successful it will set a worrisome precedent.
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Anonymous2013-10-11 8:07
>>267
I wouldn't really call Mori "realist" in the same sense as mid-90s Ohira or the other common realist animators like Okiura. His Niji-iro Hotaru is wobbly and sketchy as hell, with morphing lineart and spare facial features that heighten expression.
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Anonymous2013-10-11 8:17
>>269
ep 2's budget-saving because
1. it's a comedy episode and you can save
2. ep 3 will be crazy
it wasn't Dennou Coil or something but the motion was super-expressive and full of life
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Anonymous2013-10-11 8:27
>>272
Moving cardboard cutouts aren't full of life.
I "hate" to say I told you so but, I told you so. Many months ago. The good old Gainax is over at Khara (wasting their talent on a remake). The other Gainax is in the containment camp called Trigger. And the corpse is in the grave.
I think he means beyond LWA2, kinda how certain KyoAni fans pray for their newer shows to flop so they'll go back and do more of whatever past title they liked.
Not that the two situations are entirely the same since Ootsuka/TRIGGER did state during the kickstarter project that they are open to more LWA stuff. But you get the point. And I'm not saying I agree with him either, but I can see where he's coming from, sadly.
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Anonymous2013-10-11 13:39
>>280
I just can't wait to see a LWA TV series. I can't wait to see all the people bitch and moan because the animation is just as mediocre as KlK, and unlike KlK the actual series is boring as fuck.
>>289
I don't understand Inaishi when some stuff suddenly look so cheap and tweened.
Is this because they have no animator or no money?
Is this because Imaishi thinks good animation is a joke?
Is this because he thinks it's funny to make bad animation?
Is this because the animator sucked?
Is this because they don't know how to animate?
or
Is this because Imaishi does't give a fuck to do animation and gets his inspiration from youtube flash egoraptor animators?
Trigger is not Gainax, Trigger is Imaishi,
everyone who works at trigger is just a tool of Imaishi's vision.
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Anonymous2013-10-11 20:21
I really hope that Osamu Kobayashi kicks Imaishi in the ass with his episode,
because I seriously can't wtch 26 episodes of Imaishi tween sakuga.
The guy has 0 credibility.
Heck, anyone attending a limited event has 0 credibility.
Remember how episode 1 was hype as being "legendary" after the preview event? Yeah, that sure turned out nicely.
Why should I stop pointing out how this is hot air and not the guy who's churning out hype? If hype is the problem, the trouble makers are the ones generating it - not the ones pointing this out.
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Anonymous2013-10-12 8:55
ironic post-modern anti-animation
This cracked me up. Golden!
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Anonymous2013-10-12 9:45
KLK has good animation when it wants to, and minimal animation when it doesn't need to, as opposed to constant mediocrity.
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Anonymous2013-10-12 9:46
false predictions
Not sure if it false predictions if Imaishi advertised the show as sakuga festival.
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Anonymous2013-10-12 10:20
>>303
The real sakuga festival of 2013 is Kaguya Hime.
>>302
I'd say the animation is pretty much always minimal. But that's the thing about the show, it's made to work with minimal animation. It turns the extremely limited animation into a style, almost making it a strong point. If any other show was animated like this you would laugh at it, but here it works pretty much seamlessly.
Yeah it's not "sakuga", but I think this show shows that you don't need sakuga to make something look amazing if you can make up for it in other ways.
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Anonymous2013-10-12 11:35
KLK opening is confirmed for unfinshed. Episode 5 will have the final opening.
I mean, it's super ironic. The same people who always stand on their high horse laughing at those who care only about "visuals", not animation... now do a 180 degree turn, because 今石洋之 is written after 監督. You guys for real? And, no, really, its visuals are super bland. The art direction is the only noteworthy thing in KLK. I think it has among my favourite backgrounds this year.
It's more the hyperactive tone of the show that carries it really. I'd say ep 1 had decent layouts but ep 2 was just bland overall and the extremely limited animation brought it down. It was almost a motion comic.
>>309
As the person that made post >>306 I've never commented on SHAFT/Shinbo shows. So please don't throw the word "double standards" around.
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Anonymous2013-10-13 2:50
As you could probably tell from the preview, episode 3 of Kill la Kill is a super-important, super-animated super-episode. It got screened in Japan a few hours ago in UfotableCinema and thankfully CEO Otsuka asked people people were asked to please don’t spoil it. They posted their impressions (without spoiling, of course) and they’re basically “it’s a final episode at the start of a new show, amazing”, “greatest final battle”, “Yoshinari got top KA credit” and “the show got compeltely turned in its head, I don’t know what to expect any more!” and so; it’s also the first properly serious episode of the show. But the events in the episode are HUGE so if you don’t want to get spoiled you should probably avoid Tumblr this Thursday. http://sushiobunny.tumblr.com/post/63848892776/as-you-could-probably-tell-from-the-preview
Funny, this is a win-win situation. Because if we "the haters" get wrecked, we'll get great animation and be all the merrier. Who doesn't like great animation? And if it turns out to be hype over nothing just like with episode 1, then getting to laugh at you is also a win situation. Whatever happens, Kill la Kill 3 is entertainment guaranteed, either in the show or around it.
I always did think Anno looked like a hobo. Who would've thought.
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Anonymous2013-10-13 5:15
>>321 Is that guy trying to reverse troll?
Nah. He's always like that on the twitter and the IRC channel.
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Anonymous2013-10-13 6:43
I also think KlK has been disappointing, but expecting nothing from now on is just ignorance. Even if you don't care for Imaishi, talented people always come to work on his shows. Yoshinari is already top KA in 3, you'll probably get an effort-piece by Hori (or more) along the way, we could expect Hisashi Mori to show up, as well as prolific freelancers doing a good effort. Tachikawa generally brings good animators with him, and he'll be doing an episode at least, so you can expect something in that (probably Tanaka doing a good piece).
I mean, it was the same way with TTGL and PSG. They're not lavish productions on the level of Dennou Coil, but they did have a lot of sakuga moments. I can't think of a reason why KlK won't have big standouts for 26 episodes.
Those who revolutionnized animation in anime
-Akiyuki shimbo (madoka , nanoha )
-Ikuhara , i heard he was animator somehow , master of crazy surreal shit (utena)
-Miyazaki ( Mononoke , etc )
-Kawajiri (Animatrix shit , Ninja scroll)
-Rin taro (this man created legendary anime like metropolis , check for astonished animated crowd or kamui)
-Hideaki Anno ( sakuga robot fighting aka evangelion , Nadia too)
-Shoji kawamori (created the macross shit , the king of transformers)
-Umetsu (HBO anime before HBO exploded mainstream , meaning sex hard and heavy actions in it aka Domination Nakite )
Etc
I probably forgot some ,okay it's not about mainly animators but those guys (some are animators among them) according to me allowed genius animator to express themself
Miyazaki allowed anno to start and express himself
Shoji kawamori allowed itano wich created the crazy circuses we all enjoy now.
I love those men. they changed modern era anime to me
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Anonymous2013-10-13 7:23
Kill La Kills animation feels more lively and has more punch than Kyokai no Kanata's technically superior, but lifeless, animation.
I can't think of a reason why KlK won't have big standouts for 26 episodes.
It definitely will have standout moments. No doubt about that. Even utterly mediocre series can have standout scenes, right? When I say in >>314 that I expect nothing, I mean that I've become apathetic towards Kill la Kill and don't expect anything more than what's par for the course.
I can see what you're saying and what anon is saying here >>66
but in a way that's just normal, isn't it? I never expected Kill la Kill to be a Dennou Coil, but I expected it to be a "sakuga series". I gave up on that expectation. It will be a whatever cartoony show with some cool highlights once in a while. An "everyman" production.
This episode made me decide that I'm going to buy all the BDs. Ryuuko, Satsuki and Mako are all Goddesses. Kill la Kill 3 was the fucking best. I was a bit worried because the atmosphere in episodes 1 and 2 was a bit too comedic, but episode 3 was just awesome! They told us to please not give out spoilers but I can say this: it was fucking awesome! The coolest from beginning to ened! And episode 4 looks great, too! Super-cool! Ami Koshimizu's perfrmance was the best! I now love Ryuuko and Satuski-sama and Mako more than it's healthy. You mean this isn't the final episode?! It was like episode 15 of Gurren-Lagann... except it was 3.
I'M SO HYPED!
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Anonymous2013-10-13 12:17
>>337
Look, look at me!! Can I be more off-topic??
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Anonymous2013-10-13 12:23
>>338
wtf!
why can't we excited about a sakuga anime?
both episodes of klk so far, despite having mostly limited animation, have had numerous sakuga moments, and honestly, isn't that already better than most anime? add that to the strong art direction, and the show looks pretty solid, visually. Plus we know that there are going to be a good amount of standout episodes because of the staff. of course this is no kyoani show or dennou coil or anything, but to say it's shit seems pretty disingenuous considering how much more crappy most anime look.
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Anonymous2013-10-13 18:09
>>343 Which scene?
There are several. In minute 11 alone are two scenes with it.
Studio 4°C
Title: "Kaze no Sorashita"
Director: Naoyuki Onda
Character designer:Yasuyuki Shimizu
Animation director:Yasuyuki Shimizu
Assistant animation director:Mikine Kuwabara
A-1 Pictures
Title: "Ōkii Ichinensei to Chiisana Ninensei" (The Big First-Year Student and the Small Second-Year Student)
Director: Ayumu Watanabe
Character designer:Shizue Kaneko
Animation director:Keiichirou Matsui
Assistant animation director:Koji Watanabe
Ultra Super Pictures
Title: "Arumoni" (Harmonie)
Director: Yasuhiro Yoshiura
Character designer:Atsushi Ikariya
Animation director:Atsushi Ikariya
Assistant animation director:Daisuke Mataga
Shinei Animation
Title: "Paroru to Miraijima"(Paroru and the Future Island)
Director: Kazuaki Imai
Character designer:Yoshimichi Kameda
Animation director:Yoshimichi Kameda
Assistant animation director:Tetsuro Kaku
Looks like the other two episodes... hyperbole confirmed
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Anonymous2013-10-14 8:00
>>353
The Kameda short will feature backgrounds by Studio Pablo. It seems like it'll easily top the other three, visually.
With that talk of Kameda "reinventing himself" and his first chance to really craft up an aesthetic and influence the entire film, I'm hoping for something we haven't seen before from him.
Well what do you know, Kameda's short looks delightful. Fresh as fuck.
The others look potentially interesting too, but more as overall shorts rather than visually.
Does this mean we'll get animation from the likes of Honda, or is it just the typical assistance with inbetweens and whatnot? Also, source?
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Anonymous2013-10-14 13:56
>>363
Henshin might be honda, the face looks like a girl from the new eva movies.
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Anonymous2013-10-14 16:51
>>363 Also, source?
If something is posted here, just look up twitter, it should be there. Unless it's fake.
I have a question too:
I'm watching actually Disney movies (again) and wanted to know which of them is the best-animated. I've only watched a handful as yet and Alice in Wonderland is so far the best I saw. That amount of high-level-animation for the whole movie is extreme. I wonder if any other movie from them can top that.
And for movies from the west generally The Thief and the Cobbler (haven't seen it yet) would be the best, right? What comes near it?
>>367
How does the original Fantasia compare to Fantasia 2000? I've only seen the Firebird Suite, which I thought was good.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 3:40
The Thief's animation was less realistic but more fluid than Disney's classics.
I'd say it's quite unique and interesting to watch.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 3:41
>>367
Allegro non Troppo is the superior version of Fantasia.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 4:28
As someone who loves animation, this season while it's pretty good animation wise; works with terrible content.
KLK has disappointingly low budget but has entertaining execution. But it makes me feel I'm watching Adult Swim garbage like Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
KNK is well done as usual for a KyoAni show but damn the shittyness of it all. The material it's working on is just terrible. Ishidate can't handle a major project without falling in the same problems Kigami had with Munto.
Kyousogiga...... The story isn't working for me at all... So far it hasn't even been worthy of praise at all. If I were to judge the new content that is..
Too much hype sakuga friends. This season is pretty damn dead in my eyes.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 4:32
>>371
People were hyping "sakuga fall", not "awesome writing fall" I don't see the problem here.
Not him, but people were wrong either way. Sakuga fall this season ain't. Yozakura and KLK already had disappointing second episodes (one more so than the other). KNK is just the usual and Kyousougiga was, well, it had some cool cuts.
It's just another season, is what I'm saying. Writing or animation wise.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 6:09
>>373
You also had Takeuchi on Yuushibu and an onslaught of 2D mecha in GBF. Most shows haven't had their standout episodes yet, so just wait for it.
Also, not pertinent to us, but this Fall's the season in which the most well animated thing ever created by man is coming out.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 6:21
>>374 the most well animated thing ever created by man is coming out.
>implying Kaguya-hime will beat The Thief and the Cobbler's animation
It's amazing how difficult it is to top that film even in its unfinished state.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 8:41
>>373
Next time you should put effort in your troll attempt.
It's just another season, is what I'm saying
Which season in recent times is better? None. It wasn't as good as we hoped it would be (so far), but it's still much better than most seasons.
Also
Yozakura had a disappointing second episode
It was a bit worse than the first, which is great for Tatsunoko, but still good-animated.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 8:47
>>375
Cobbler just has a lot of frames. I like what Disney was doing in Fantasia or Bambi better honestly, and I sure as hell prefer stuff like Jin-Roh or Akira.
Kaguyahime will have a ton of frames too. I don't know how they contabilize this and it doesn't seem right, but they said 500,000 drawings. If that means frames, well, Ponyo had ~170,000 for comparison. I don't think it'll have 500,000 frames though, they probably counted in other numbers as 'drawings'.
I will lose my interest for Kill La Kill if episode 3 is on the same level as 1 and 2.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 9:40
Not sure if Kill La Kill will deliver the sakuga we've been waiting for.
I really hope that Osamu Koyabashi's episode is going to deliver at least one ultimate sakuga episode. I put all my hope on Kobayashi, the rest of the team will be just like episode 1 and 2.
Well then, I guess I will wait for the next season.
What do we got?
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Anonymous2013-10-15 9:46
Space Dandy will be the real sakuga show we all have been waiting for.
Bones is the only TV production studio that still delivers high quality sakuga.
Although, guys, let's not go totally hopeless.
Kill La Kill has 26 episodes, I think there are going to be a few episodes with ultimate sakuga in there, I have a good feeling about this.
They can't possibly pull off the same sakuga quality of ep.1 and ep.2 through 26 episodes. I'm sure they have something to offer sakuga vise for a few episodes.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 10:27
which animators do the best camera movements?
I mean when the animator himself moves the camera with the object,character,BG whatever.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 10:34
>>385
I would say Norimitsu Suzuki, because he does it a lot and he does it very well.
There are other animators that do it too, but they don't do it so often, so I can't really judge that.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 11:13
>>376 It's amazing how difficult it is to top that film even in its unfinished state.
The Thief and the Cobbler is extremely fluid, but for sheer movement it isn't the best. Hardly any background animation and the most time you see only one character moving or some still background shots. Of course, when something is moving, then it's unrivaled like here:
Disney's best classics like Fantasia have more animation as a whole. For the movie itself and for the most scenes.
>>378 Cobbler just has a lot of frames. I like what Disney was doing in Fantasia or Bambi better honestly, and I sure as hell prefer stuff like Jin-Roh or Akira.
This is like saying "I hate KyoAni's anime because the only thing they're doing is boring character animation with moe-content" and don't accepting that their series are generally very good animated. Even Akira isn't on the same level as the west, animation-wise.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 11:44
>>387 Hardly any background animation and the most time you see only one character moving or some still background shots
Just like almost every animation ever?
I don't know why you had to bring this up.
It's not like background animation is common especially in the west.
I think he means scenes shot with a multi-plane camera, not background animation. Disney films used the multi-plane camera extensively. I actually really like the effect that you achieve with that. It's almost as good as background animation. Actually even better at moments, purely because you get an illusion of 3-dimensional movement with the level of detail of background art.
And it's so strange that the method is not used more often nowadays when you have the advantage of digital layers. You don't have to move huge glass panels around anymore. And yet, the technique is somehow lost and only gets seldom use. Can't even blame it on CGI backgrounds or anything (and since I'm on this subject, I actually prefer multi-plane scenes to actual 3D backgrounds because the character is much better integrated in the layout that way, since every component is still two dimensional). People really seem to have forgotten that multi-plane exists.
A shame...
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Anonymous2013-10-15 12:06
>>387
I didn't say I hated Cobbler. I didn't say it was badly animated either. I have different aesthetic preferences, that's just it.
For example, I don't really care for the gif you posted. I recognize it's good and takes effort, I just don't really like that bouncy style. It feels hyperactive, with a lot of superfluous movements that just add to the floaty, exaggerated feel where every single movement and expression is extremely played up. Disney did that too, but Williams takes it to such an extreme it goes right back to being drab (which is how I also feel about a lot of Disney films, especially the "Renaissance" ones).
At any rate, saying things like "X is not on the same level as Y" like there is some sort of objective ranking of things is far more retarded.
For example, the track shots through the forest in Bambi or The Fox and the Hound. No matter how much work you'd pour into background animation you wouldn't make it look as good as those cuts look. Trees and leaves are like the biggest hassle to animate (I don't know a single cuts with animated trees that does not simplify them to really noticeable degrees, especially in background animation). Getting that level of fidelity is so impractical it might as well be impossible.
>>388
Maybe background animation was the wrong term, yet I don't see your problem. I said that the movie had it's focus on single character animation as it was shown the most time. Only few scenes with other characters in it and some movement in the background at the end if I recall correctly.
That's to be expected with that fluid movement though, they couldn't have all. That GIF is a good example for the almost perfect movement of a single entity and also that there's not much additionally.
>>390
What do you want here then? "I like that more than that" is clearly not the topic here. I also like anime more for it's content and visual style, doesn't matter though if the west is shitting on Japan in term of animation.
Also, animation is always objective, don't see your point. Maybe you're just too butthurt.
Are you implying that animation quality can be measured objectively, without accounting for different styles, contexts and the subjective tastes of the viewers (and with viewers I mean everyone from the animators themselves to the directors, "critics" and everyone else)?
Well it can't. Otherwise you wouldn't have animation people arguing about who the best animator is, or what was the most well-animated scene, or arguing about whether 1s or 2s are better, or leaving studios because of differences in approach. All of this is from Western, Disney people by the way.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 12:43
Catnapped has a couple of cool cuts shot with a multiplane camera at the beginning of the film.
It's really good to see here because most of the other cuts are just slides over a single background layer. The multiplane cuts "pop-up" right away and look so much better. They could've used it more extensively, but I guess it was a budget and time issue.
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Anonymous2013-10-15 15:26
>>395 That GIF is a good example for the almost perfect movement of a single entity
Also forgot to say: If the whole movie was as good and permanent as that GIF, then it could be very well the best animated movie of the world. Which it wasn't sadly.
>>398
Animation=movement. It doesn't matter if there are people who don't want to admit that fact or simply don't know it better. And for movement it always goes like this: The more the better. You know, there are people who would say animated Genga is NOT animation.
There is not really an animation style, but there are drawing styles. And you can't arguing about who the best animator in general is, yes, but you can compare works from some animators and arguing who did the best work from them. Though there are clear lines between the really good and the not so good animators.
I myself don't know much about 1s and 2s yet, but I don't see how less frames could be better then more frames. It isn't automatically worse, depending on the cut, but better?
Yozakura Quartet: Tsuki ni Naku(夜桜四重奏－ツキニナク‐) OP KA:Ryu Nakayama(中山竜)
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Anonymous2013-10-16 3:53
People put too much emphasis on animated backgrounds. Good character animation and by extension expressions are much harder to pull off well. It's not like Thief was lacking in background animation either, although it's true that the general movement isn't as grounded in reality as Disney's which isn't instantly a bad thing.
Even barring the technical qualities there are still great use of design features and backgrounds.
I seriously doubt you'll find a scene with more care put into it than this.
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Anonymous2013-10-16 6:09
>>400
>Animation=movement Movement. And for movement it always goes like this: The more the better
Nope. This is the same shit CalArts drones keep repeating all the time because they don't know anything else than what they were brainwashed with.
Movement isn't a simple magnitude like "height". There is more to it than the "amount" of movement. This is why a circle moving from left to right done in 128fps will not be better animated than an actual character emoting, and this is why Disney guys 'devised' their 12 principles. In other words, there are different approaches to movement which give rise to different results, and saying one is "better" than others so plainly is offensive to anyone who cares about animation.
>There is not really an animation style, but there are drawing styles
There are animation styles. But more importantly, the drawing styles are a fundamental part of what makes animation different from each other. If we're talking about sequential drawings, you can't just disregard the "drawing" part in favour of the "sequence" part, both are important. It'd be like only caring about the brush-stroke in a painting, or only caring about the rhythm in music. I myself don't know much about 1s and 2s yet, but I don't see how less frames could be better then more frames. It isn't automatically worse, depending on the cut, but better?
A good instructive to realize how timing can improve animation is Mitsuo Iso. Barely ever animated on 1s, switching between 2s and 3s (even 4s at times) in the same cut. Yet his movement is some of the most weighty and natural I've ever seen. Much more than anything Disney has ever done, for sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNqlsKs785U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ZTxWZmFY4 (He didn't animate the whole thing, but try to spot the differences in style between cuts and you'll see how much more real some of them move. That's Iso).
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Anonymous2013-10-16 6:58
>>404
Eh, a bit too much shakycam in his EoE cuts. The other one is pretty good though.
Can't say the shakycam bothers me in EoE, I think it's done just enough to keep it complimenting the scene instead of being obtrusive. I can see why some would like the fight to be cleaner.
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Anonymous2013-10-16 9:05
Shaky cam is just like lens flare in animation. Useless intentional defect done because you'd get something similar to that with a real camera. Sometimes it adds to the immersion, most of the time it's crap. I don't mind the shaky cam in the EoE scene, and I actually like it during the cuts that show images of Asuka inside the entry plug. You can imagine that footage was filmed by a camera mounted inside the plug. It makes sense for the image to shake in that case.
>>413
He probably came up with that shotgun chainsaw
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Anonymous2013-10-16 12:32
key animator list for Kyoukai no Kanata 3
Yoshinori(Yoshiaki) Urata
Shimpei Sawa
Tomoko Yoshimura
Naoko Machida ( also in ep 2)
Naoki Nakanishi ( also in ep 2)
Yuki Kakuda ( also in ep 2)
Yuko Akami
Tomofumi Sugitani
Hidehiro Asama
Teruyoshi Shidou (also in ep 1)
Rie Sezaki (also in ep 1)
Kunihiro Hane (also in ep 1)
Tatunari Maruko (also in ep 1)
>>422
He posts on kyoani's staff blog which is normally for the directing staff so I guess he might be under the training to become a director.
He did the mecha design for Chuu2's short too.
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Anonymous2013-10-16 15:35
Shinpei Sawa said he was the one who designed and placed most of the background characters in Hyouka 12, he's a pretty cool guy. I dunno how well he animates, but I'm pretty sure he's going to be promoted sooner or later.
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Anonymous2013-10-16 17:30
episode 2 of Kill La Kill had no sakuga quality.
It just looked nice and funny, but wasn't nicely animated.
God damn it that's the final straw. I fucking hate Ishidate and I hope he doesn't direct ever again. He's a decent to good episode director and that's that.
First time I'll ever drop a KyoAni show. Hopefully someone compiles a sakuga mad for this because I'm not that interested to watch every fucking minute of this poorly directed show. A shame Ishidate. You were very promising. But you're not cut out for this role.
I don't care what you think, I want to hear observations on the technical stuff like direction. People are always going "this is well/badly directed" over here, but nobody explains themselves. I'd like to hear why it's badly directed
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Anonymous2013-10-17 11:45
>>431
THIS. People just like to use words like "bad direction" to add more weight to their arguments, but most can't even articulate why exactly the directing is bad. So if somebody writes "bad direction", he really just means "I don't like this show", regardless of the actual quality of the directing.
KnK is really lacking because the source material is probably garbage (haven't read it, but that's what I'm assuming).
The directing was "generally" fine - the setting (backgrounds, locals etc.) is nice, the storyboarding and editing were generally well done (some cuts in the action scene from the beginning of episode two were edited in a weird way though) and you can't really say the animation is lacking in any way.
The biggest directorial fault were some really weird scene transitions, especially in episode 3 (this goes hand in hand with the script though). Many jumps between characters without much reason, especially the jumps to the new hunter dude with the glasses who was there to... fuck me if the show told me any substantial reason for his presence. You don't really get what the story tries to focus on and there's no sense of build up or urgency, even though the episode required them. Some scenes have no place at all - like the scene with Akihito making his dinner. That indeed was bad directing. They should have left it out, because it makes his entry at the end of the episode a lot more believable (you can just assume he kept following Mirai in secret). With that scene left in, it's rather hard to buy that Akihito had time to go home, fret around a bit, THEN run after Mirai and somehow reach her in the nick of time etc. It's bad storyboarding and editing. If they just had to leave that scene in, they should have placed it earlier than they did.
Either way, as far as mise en scene goes Ishidate and the rest of the directors did a decent job. They didn't do the best they could have. And I think this can be blamed back on Ishidate because he said he did not want or feel the need to change the story much. They should have changed it more. I hear there are changes from the novel, but if they are they certainly feel half assed and half implemented.
Not that guy, by the way.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-17 13:35
To the two anons who "dropped" Kill la Kill: get in here! Episode 3 had some awesome animation in the second half. Just beware of sanzigen. Really ugly cuts from sanzigen's CGI.
I think I'll put this on hold and watch it all in one go after it ends myself.
There are a lot of things I can say that's bad/I don't like with KnK. However I'll focus on the script and pacing aspect.
It's bad because of the scenarios Ishidate and Hanada came up with. They're just so god damn uninteresting. I know this isn't a comedy but god damn it do I want to punch the screen whenever they dish out humor.
Also the flow of scenes are just not well thought out as pointed out by someone already. I'd just add the part where this particular character shows up. Mirai certainly knows her but god damn it her entrance is just so disconnected that it won't even grab your attention to who the hell that sakura girl is. The lines also delivered by her are so substantial that they don't even register to you. It felt so random.
While the novel is infact not great, the general flow plot was straightforward and the characters interaction were pretty solid. They covered already a lot of the novel already. If you want know the changes done go look for the spoilers posted by nakulas. He's translating the novels.
So far as I have read the novel. I enjoyed it much more. It's not great perse but the god damn changes they did made Mirai such an unlikeable fuck. It's not the same as Chuunibyou where they kept only the beginning of the novel and outright changed everything. Here they kept a lot of the important plot point in the novel and changed the character's personality.
I'm not against them changing anything just as long as it's one coherent piece.
Anyway, this show has a glaring huge flaw. They fail to set up something that would grab your attention. I just don't know what the fuck Ishidate was thinking or if he understood well the changes he was about to do. It feels like he has no vision of what he wants to depict on every episode.
Oh thanks for plain dismissing me without even giving any constructive reasons as to why you think so.
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Anonymous2013-10-17 14:10
Kill la Kill #3 was good, but nothing great really. Besides the henshins, the only cut I really dig is the one at the beginning of part B with the guys running around the house.
Jesus fucking christ what the hell is Trigger doing
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Anonymous2013-10-17 16:28
>>445
Great animation by Hiramatsu, but sad that they used the same tranformation animation for both characters, just with longer hair and different color.
I wish they had individual transformation animations. That really sucked.
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Anonymous2013-10-17 16:40
remember when they wrote a few days ago
kill la kill ep3 will be totally different, the animation will be awesome! It is a whole new thing compared to ep. 1 and 2
KLK 3
- decent effect animation but nothing special
- meh to decent character animation during fight scene
- terrible CG
- nice transformation but why can't make the sequences of two main character different?
The story is still not interesting to me. The infodump in the first half of the episode is so boring and poorly done.
Kill la Kill #3 had some nice action and effects animation. Any other notable animators besides Honda? I'm disappointed with the excessive CGI though, there were very obvious cuts of full CGI characters during the duel. It's almost like I was watching BRS.
That chase through the room mid episode #3 in KLK was very cool. So were the transformations, but...
As the guy who posted >>66 I admit these first three episodes are a little more than what I expected, in a negative way. If this is how a standout episode is supposed to look, I'm not sure just how much worse than episode 2 the future filler episodes will get.
I still think we'll get some cool episodes along the way, and I am willing to bet the series finale will have some truly spectacular animation. Even if I lose this bet, I want to believe this will happen.
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Anonymous2013-10-18 4:53
His name is Handa, not Honda.
Shuhei Handa!
As if Takeshi Honda would ever animatefor Kill La Kill
No one at Kill La kill will be able to top Honda's transformation animation.
They can go with 26 episodes, no one will top this.
It's perfect, it can't be animated better than this. http://youtu.be/KUTQ0oypo4U?t=7s
Honda Nr.1 animator of 2013.
Nr.2 is Kazuto Nakazawa
Takeshi Honda is the new Mitsuo Iso.
I'm serious, Honda is the new sakuga god.
but that's still not going to save Kill La Kill.
Honda should be animation supervisor for an episode, that would save Kill La Kill.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-18 5:40
>>470
Dude, calm down.
There was never any doubt that Honda is one of the best animators in the world.
Honda has been a genius since the beginning.
He is in the league of Iso, Inoue, Okiura and Ohira.
If they keep giving the important animations to Khara, then how are the young animators at Trigger supposed to develop?
I was hoping that Imaishi would allow his youngsters to show their power.
Instead, they are forced to animate low-key Imaishi.
You can clearly see that Imaishi didn't touch shit on Honda's animation,
Honda is superior to Imaishi. I wish the young animators would also fuck on Imaishi's Kanada instructions and go freestyle like Honda.
The young animators are not.
And I think the producer can't take the high risk to give important scenes to a rookie animator.
This is a business and these people have responsibilities to keep the show alive.
I think it was a good choice to assign Honda for this, it will save the show for a while, and I think they will keep showing this transformation until the end of the show.
It's their ultimate treasure.
>>477
This is pretty well-known in the sakuga fandom.
Anyway, Honda was the character designer the chief sakkan of the show.
He was the sakkan of the first two episode and never showed up again after episode 11.
Iso must've had some insane standards to have Takshi "Shisho" Honda quite just like that. It never fails to be amusing.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-18 7:38
KnK, Gundam Build Fighters, Nagi no Asakura, Yozakura Quartet, Kyousogiga.
All of these have better or more interesting animation and visuals than Kill la Kill. Everyone is jerking over Honda's transformation scene, but as good as it is, Trigger still reused it for two different characters. Just how cheap one studio can get is beyond me, even Toei does different henshin for different charas, despite their notorious reputation of being jews.
Hell, even Yuusha ni something something or Outbreak Company have more notable sakuga than this cheap non-animation festival.
I have never read that Honda got fired. Only that he left because of Iso. And just because that's "well known" doesn't mean it's true. >>453
Masahito Yamashita. Less notable perhaps but Toshiyuki Sato is very good. Futoshi Higashide was also there. The rest was mostly Trigger staff I think.
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Anonymous2013-10-18 8:46
>>458
Honda was fired by Iso is a fucking rumor set by people like us.
The source you added is not even the real source, it's a quote from this goddamn thread back in 2011. You dirty motherfucker.
He's either fired by Iso or had to leave because Iso was a perfectionist asshole.
Either way, this might be the reason for Iso to not appear in Eva rebuild and eventually leaving the industry at all.
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Anonymous2013-10-18 9:16
Honda probably saw himself as Iso's equal.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-18 9:41
rumors, rumors everywhere.
No one knows the reason of Iso's disappereance.
Iso is not a perfectionist, Okiura is, Inoue is, even Honda is more perfectionist than Iso.
Iso's animation always felt rough to me, you guys just shit up with the rumors.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-18 9:47
Either Iso is out of the animation industry, or he has been working all this entire time on Eva 4.0
I don't know.
I look forward to Kill La Kill 4.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-18 9:48
Iso on Kill La Kill final scene
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-18 10:08
I think Honda's Kill La Kill animation was the best Honda animation of all time.
Should we assume Infinite Stratos is a show that needs to be discussed here too, because it's getting orders at such a rate? Go shitpost about sales in /a/.
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Anonymous2013-10-19 3:48
Mir's Korra S2 episodes are pretty good. Worth cheking out. Visuals are pretty special for the two episodes and there are some nice effects and action cuts.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-19 4:44
>>518
I don't find them impressive, but I do like them. I don't think this thread should be limited to just "impressive" animation.
Fellow KyoAni bros. For ages we have been bombarded with strong opinions that go against our beloved kyoani shows. We drew no blood. We held no grudges against their childish mistakes. Whilst this was true for every other show we had, this season is a special one. It's time to stand up.
Through the years, KyoAni has crafted time and time again some of the most lovable franchises we hold so dear. Masterpieces like Haruhi, Air, Kanon, Clannad and Clannad After Story. But who could forget the timeless masterpiece that is K-ON which we were thoughtfully given a second season and a movie. Of course it's not always sunshine. We often get times when our beloved KyoAni cannot bring in new brethrens to our warm family-like pack. Such were the case with Tamako and Nichijou. But those didn't bother us as they were still evident of the loving craft given to us by the masterful hands at KyoAni. However this season, it all changes.
Right now, KyoAni airs a show titled Kyoukai no Kanata. Compared to other works, this lacked the loving craft they always poured. It's as if they've gone and become a no good second rate studio. Time and time again, it tested our patience. We held off through the storm that is "shitposting". Clutching on to our hopes saying that the ball will start rolling after a few episodes. But alas, the 3 episode rule has come. Week by week, episode by episode; we were disappointed by it's performance. We start turning on to ourselves and bashing the show due to our disappointments.
KyoAni bros, it's time to stop fighting amongst ourselves. The real enemy here is this man; Taichi Ishidate. A rookie of no vision. The true destroyer of our beloved KyoAni. To delay no further, I propose we each make a letter about our collective thoughts to be sent to KyoAni. At the same time I will petitioning them to fire this soulless director. It's time we took matters into our own hands. It's time save Kyoto Animation.
If it's like Kaze Tachinu, hopefully they will release the long trailer the day before the film opens or the same day. There's supposedly a 6-min trailer, so we could get something around that time.
>>550
You're not funny as well faggot. All you fucking shitposters should just remain on /a/. Why would you even want to come here and shit up this thread? You should be ashamed of yourselves.
chanteur means singer
rotoscopie means rotoscoping , it's when you use video to animate
You trace over the video
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-20 17:11
R.I.P. in peace Yozakura
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-20 17:24
Anno: Iku-chan was a heretic within Toei Animation. Because there was rotation key framing went through horrible (work) cycles, but in middle of that Iku-chan was playing, animating single cuts on ones*. In first episode the good number of key frames to be used is decided and in case you don't take care this quality is kept up this'll happen (*motions head chopping*) but under such conditions he was doing strange things. He'd animate on ones inconsequential scenes that were supposed to be as motionless as possible, for example Ami complaining after getting pinched.
There was no other guy doing such foolish things and I was sure he had to be interesting guy.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-20 17:36
Anno and Yoshinari did animation on Sailor Moon.
And Anno did the storyboarding and layouts for Sailor Neptune and Uranus' transformations. According to Ikuhara, since this stuff isn't credited.
By the way, if anyone here knows, how often does work go uncredited in anime? Is it usually just when the animator is just lumped in with the subcontracted studio (like here, GAINAX) or does it happen on other times as well? Also, why?
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-21 1:15
>>582
I could be wrong, but I think the biggest reason for animators going uncredited is that the animators themselves ask not to be credited. For whatever reason.
>>577 Did he say the MV took only one week to make?
Yes, the Space Dandy music video was done in one week.
They had to rotoscope the singer Yasuyuki Okamura probably because the main animators were working on the tv show or because there was no time to "animate" his dance moves. 1 week is a very short schedule.
The whole key-animation process of an average anime takes 1 week.
Quality key-animation sakuga from Bones tv shows probably take 3 weeks to finish. Okiura key-animation takes 1 year.
But that's not uncommon, promotional music videos such as this always have a very tight schedule.
That's actually a good sign that they were spending their production power on the tv show itself rather than this music video.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-21 11:59
>>588
Space Rotoscope confirmed for next sakuga disappointment after CG la CG.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-21 12:40
I'll take rotoscoping over shit CG and half-assed motion comic limited animation any time, any day.
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Anonymous2013-10-21 12:43
Can't wait for rotostoping claims on wild space animals and aliens.
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Anonymous2013-10-21 14:07
Can we confirm that Shingo Natsume and Bahi JD worked on Space Dandy 1 after this?
>>582
>By the way, if anyone here knows, how often does work go uncredited in anime? Is it usually just when the animator is just lumped in with the subcontracted studio (like here, GAINAX) or does it happen on other times as well? Also, why?
Given it is uncredited it will probably be hard to say.
Though the way the industry works, they have a very close knit network of animators. They know each other more than we from the outside know.
Friends will often lend hands to friends.
Teacher/senior animators will help their students out. The opposite is also true.
If there is a case of a certain animator's talents are needed but they are contracted elsewhere, they will do the work uncredited or use a pseudonym.
They could have done a way better 3D Tarzan if they knew how to do it.
It has nothing to do with 3D or 2D.
This same studio would have produced a garbage Tarzan in 2D.
Guaranteed to flop. Even the trailer looks like shit, and I don't mean just animation wise. And if it flops, I'm pleased. The Captain Harlock CGI reboot also flopped hard. I hope this trend continues.
No offense to 3D puppeteers, but your work is the spawn of Satan.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-22 9:12
Wow, yet another uninspired, blandly stylized 3D film from America. How refreshing.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-22 9:20
The problem with 3D is that it's so dependent on budget and resources that the people who can actually compute the best results will never have the verve to apply the technology on something interesting.
If they used the full capabilities of what there is now, something hard-boiled and low-key in the vein of Jin-Roh would be great. Or even something uglier, closer to reality like Hamaji's Resurrection.
Coming up with interesting ways of stylizing and 'cartoonizing' animation for 3D is inherently hard because it's such a mechanical, time-consuming process. There's really no feeling of improvising a pose or a movement, of really getting into the acting of a character because you have to concentrate on moving those damn polygons. It's probably why a lot of the research that goes into this try to have some sort of animator 'drawing' the skeleton of the animation directly, to preserve that spontaneous feeling of traditional animation. But even then, it's hard to take risks considering how expensive high-profile 3D movies are.
>>624
You deserve it because you're doing your job poorly.
Take Trigger as an example, they're respected because they make good sakuga animes.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-23 9:01
>>627
Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, only LWA managed to deliver good animation. Kill la Kill? Not really, still waiting for something impressive. It's stylish but kinda cheap too.
Way too overhyped. There animation style is just so limited. They haven't tried to break the mold since forever. Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of their usual styles.
KnK was very promising but it just goes to show how sticking to one genre kills your creativity. They can't do action for shit and it's almost saddening that it feels Gonzo-tier/early 2000s anime.
Name:
Anonymous2013-10-23 9:41
People stop fighting about mediocre animation. >>629 is here.
Also, looks like Hashimoto. Reminded me of his scene in Hamaji's resurrection a bit. Thoughts?
implying half of the cuts in that trailer aren't missing inbetweens implying any cut in that trailer went through post-processing implying that isn't an animatic that's just touched up in places
Why would a high action scene have slower timing than a baby crawling on the floor or a girl looking out the window? There's no way that trailer isn't using work in progress material.
Yeah, keep trolling. Or go back to school. Seems you fail at reading comprehension big time. I wouldn't be surprised if you're the same shitstain who shitposts about sales in here.
missing inbetweens
What? Most of that trailer is on 1s and 2s bro. post-processing
I don't see why it wouldn't have. The colors are balanced, the lighting is already on place.
The first trailer is a scene in a different place, at a different point in the film, probably made by a different animator. If your problem are the rough b&w trees, I'm sorry but you'll be disappointed because it's supposed to look like that. If you have another specific problem, please elaborate.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 11:10
KyoAni should be a taboo studio since they're nothing special anyway.
It feels like everyone has their Haruhi goggles too tight.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 11:11
The green frame should be a dead giveaway that this is WIP. The sideways running cut 18 seconds in has incomplete background art. Same with the cut 24 seconds in, which is also missing inbetweens. The cut 36 seconds in uses incomplete background art. It's also not the final photography and has no harmony layer. The run into the moon at the end is also incomplete - you can even see the details fading in as the cut progresses similar with the 10 second house CM trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQzW8ZUPw-s). Just look at the sides to spot it.
The only cut that seems to be close to its final form is the run through the forest. I suspect they'll only add some subtle effects to it, seems complete otherwise.
If you seriously think this is the final version of the footage you're retarded. Takahata like gowing against the stream, but he's not stupid. People would be walking out of the theatre if they showed them an incomplete work like this.
>>660
The green frame was not there in the original broadcast (I watched the .ts), the taiwanese cappers added it because they're retarded like that.
I'll give you the 24sec cut (though it could, again, be a problem with the cap and it looks like that), but the others are finished. Perhaps they will add some subtle digital effects, but I'm pretty sure you're seeing what you'll get. The BG at 18secs looked like that in the PR photos they released, they wouldn't use WIP for that (and none of the other photos were WIP). The cut at 36secs has some jitter at the background, but it doesn't look bad to me. The grass is obviously animated and intentionally drawn like that for effect.
The BG at 18secs looked like that in the PR photos they released
It didn't. The PR photo didn't have the BG layer.
Cap problems or WIP, I hope and really think the film doesn't look like this. I will eat my balls if it does. I don't think Takahata is aiming for Windy Tales here.
I don't think Takahata is the main responsible for the visual style of the film. He has to approve it, yes, but it looks just like Osamu Tanabe's beverage commercials, polished to feature film-level. If you don't like it, well, that's too bad, but if you had no problem with the other bits of footage they released it could just be a problem you have with this scene (the trailer seems to be a single, long scene) and not the entire film.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 12:16
Ok. KnK 4 done. I'm prepared to drop this show.
Nothing really good coming out this season.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 12:17
Yeah, so far the only thing that impressed me was Takeuchi's cut in Yuushibu 1.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 12:19
Or maybe you guys are just finally seeing KyoAni for what they really are. A so-so studio with no versatility.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 12:29
>>628 Kill la Kill? Not really, still waiting for something impressive. It's stylish but kinda cheap too
Dafuq?
Are you talking about the animation or are you one of the other dozens of tards that mix the animation with everything else in the show and complain about it in an animation thread? Just like >>668
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Anonymous2013-10-23 12:31
Nobody gives a shit about what shows you're watching or dropping. This is the animation appreciation thread. Either talk about animation, or fuck off.
Yes, go on. "Dafuq?" what? Are you seriously trying to say Kill la Kill's animation was impressive in any way? That whole show is carried by the layouts and art direction. Not the animation, with its crap CG and digital tweens.
They really don't have versatility in a way that they can't handle this kind of genre animation wise. Only a few of them can probably come up with something good. That fucking escalator scene had some bogus cuts that look weird.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 12:46
>>672
Episode 1 has good animation by Takafumi Hori.
Episode 2 was pretty shit.
Episode 3 has 2 awesome transformation scene and the action is great, better than KnK, in fact.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 12:47
I guess Kyoani just isn't really capable when it comes to action. Takemoto is awesome but ep 4 was just so boring. The layouts and staging for the action lacked any sort of energy, and the digital camerawork was deplorable. Though I actually liked the small bits in ep 1 when the youmu showed up at the end. The editing and quick cuts between shots was exciting. Maybe Ishidate is better at this stuff than Takemoto is? His episodes have been really disappointing
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Anonymous2013-10-23 12:53
At any rate, we should wait for the Kigami episode. If someone can make good action out of this it's him.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 12:57
Without Ishidate being available for KA, I'm setting expectations at minimum.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 13:09
What's wrong with the action animation in KnK again?
Totally. The scream louder in Kill la Kill, and that translates into better animation. The fuck are you talking about? Besides Honda's transformation the only good cut of animation in episode 3 was that scene with Mako's dad and brother running around the room, not the crap action scenes.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 13:15
>>679 What's wrong with the action animation in KnK again?
It lacks soul.
Using a lot of frames but has no impact.
Yelling, hot blood, bombastic music, high stakes. What else? Ishidate and Takemoto need to watch more Dragon Ball and take notes. Who gives a shit about animation. /sarcasm
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Anonymous2013-10-23 13:40
>>685 What the fuck is "energy" supposed to mean here?
I mean like kinetic energy, how scenes flow between each other. For example using forward momentum in a transition shot and cutting to an action sequence. Like in episode 3 where the Sakura girl zoomed at the camera before engaging Mirai. I think that's a good example of instilling action scenes with life.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 13:47
going on, my complaint about digital camerawork is mostly about how scenes flow with relation to each either. Like when Mirai is fighting that hollow shadow or w/e and she's just sword spamming and it just goes behind her. It wasn't fun to watch, despite being a climax action scene
also another complaint I had with the episode are the digital FX. Way too much of this episode, Kyoani is good at 2D FX but for some reason the scene with the MC berserking had all sorts of lame post processing tinkering tacked onto it.
That sword spin was ugly as shit, I'll give you that.
I don't see your issue with the digital effects though. Plus, the fiend animation was great, so...
True (to a degree), but it also has shit cuts sprinkled in and in between for good measure. Just before that cut you posted there's a shitty sword spam cut, and after it the shitty CGI cut >>696 posted, for example.
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Anonymous2013-10-23 14:57
By far the worst offense of KlK3 was the "super attack". They end the henshin with pumping music playing, play up Ryuuko's dominance in the fight with increasingly dramatic layouts, and then they unleash that "sword", yell the name of the attack, DRAMATIC SCREAM and...
>>728
Obviously there's Okiura's A Letter to Momo and he is currently working on two movies. I guess as long as Okiura's around you can expect movies with realist animation.
These, http://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/1811/kazuto_nakazawa-screencap-smears are intentionally deformed drawings. These, >>738 are just fucking off-model. Inbetweens or shimeebetweens, you can notice them without pausing the video (unlike Nakazawa's keys) and they're distracting when you do. You just don't see that kind of shit in a properly cut in a properly made feature film.
It's possible for bad in-betweens to affect the animation but the examples above are just nitpicking. The 2nd and last one have no place even in a QUALITY thread.
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Anonymous2013-10-25 11:05
Well, the Madoka frames are prime examples of in-betweens of on-model animations.
While the Nakazawa cut is an example of off-model animations.
There is not much to discuss. Both styles can look strange if you look at isolated frames.
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Anonymous2013-10-25 11:22
I would even think the Mami and Homura examples are more character desgin related.
No seriously. This just blows every single thing KyoAni has done in KnK both in LN PV and actual episodes. They really need to break the fucking mold and let some talented animators do their thing.
IMO they need to do more CMs and stimulate potential talents.
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Anonymous2013-10-26 6:59
"So, the third movie is out. /a/ is chock full of spoilers, so if any of you are afraid of seeing those I'd advise to stay well away for a while. For those of you who are interested, though, I've summed up the story from what I could understand of the spoilers (those that have been confirmed, anyway):"
I saw the movie long time ago with the famous choregraphy dance scene
The song was sakura xmas
It's true to say that this movie launched the "very well animated dancing scenes" we can see nowadays in idolmaster anime and such ?
If I say let them do more action someone will say I just don't like their shows at all. For the record I like most of KyoAni shows. The acting is top notch and very consistent all throughout. With doing almost the 80% SoL all the time, you can see how jarring their weakness is in this genre(action). I'm not saying they should shift genre ASAP but at least give some new talent a chance to be more creative than usual. Hence why I said doing a CM is the best way to hone some skills.
In all honesty, throwing aside character designs and all; I can't wrap my head around it but there's definitely something about the character's mannerism and how they move in the show. I feel that it's easy to tell it's KyoAni. That's why maybe if they were given a chance in trying things out freely they might come up with something pretty fresh.
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Anonymous2013-10-26 23:42
>>816
Yes, it's generally easy to tell a Kyoani show apart from the animation. Most of their sakkans draw hands similarly (including how they do it more realistic in close-ups and blobbier in mid-shots) and have similar linework. There are some tics in the acting that are pretty specific and consistent to Kyoani shows, like how a lot of the times the character will 'bounce' while speaking if she/he is slightly excited/upset, the rhythm with which most animators change the expressions (3/4 into a line they will throw a subtle change, a lot of times), and generally the poses they use are somewhat similar. This is all natural, they're all in-house working closely with each other, so their style is fairly inbred. It happened to the close-knit subcontract studios of the 70s and 80s too, you could have an 'Oh Pro' style, a 'Telecom' style or an 'Anime R' style because these artists were influencing each other all the time and their work became similar.
As for action, I don't really need Kyoani to do action. I can get my fix of that watching sakuga MADs or BONES shows. Serious character dramas without slapstick and an interesting visual approach (i.e. Hyouka) and zany gag-comedies (i.e. Nichijou) work well with their animation. They should do more of that with better source material, if you ask me. Of course diversifying is good, but I don't really find it necessary or mandatory.
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Anonymous2013-10-27 2:07
You can see KyoAni's acting style in Saint Oniisan movie.
Ishidate needs to find ways. If he's going director now and he keeps his word about him not touching KAs(excluding the OP/ED) then someone needs to step up.
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Anonymous2013-10-27 5:56
Kyoani Kyoani Kyoani
find another topic to discuss, so boring.
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Anonymous2013-10-27 6:13
Allright, they let's Space Dandy.
I've heard that Yutapon and Bahi jD are animating scene beside scene.
What do you guys think about putting a master animator like Yutapon beside a newcomer like Bahi JD?
Will they influence each other ?
*Alright, then let's talk about Space Dandy-
Sorry I had to do this.
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Anonymous2013-10-27 6:43
>>821
Yutapon will influence BahiJD, no way it could be the other way around. BahiJD once even tweeted that he asked for an advice from Yutapon.
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Anonymous2013-10-27 7:11
>>821
I'm not sure if they will influence each other since both are very individual animators.
Both Yutapon and Bahi are animators that challenge themselves instead of challenging others.
But there is probably a certain exciting pressure on both of them.
It's a friendly pressure.
Yutapon wants to prove himself in front of his old friend Watanabe. They haven't worked together since Bebop, and he was always animating the important scenes in Bebop.
And Bahi wants to prove himself in front of the great master.
I can imagine that he felt some kind of pressure knowing that his work will be showcased beside Yutapon's.
I hope Bahi won't try to become a Yutapon copy-cat, it would be totally useless trying to overcome the original. I hope he will continue doing his own thing.
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Anonymous2013-10-27 7:17
>>825 I'm not sure if they will influence each other since both are very individual animators.
I don't totally agree with you.
As >>824 said.
Bahi will get some tips from Yutapon, advice doesn't certainly mean that he will try to become like Yutapon.
But the young student will always learn useful things from his master, he doesn't have to become a copy-cat for that.
Getting advice is different than trying to imitate someone.
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Anonymous2013-10-27 7:23
>>825
I hope Yutapon will develop his acting sakuga,
His action work is already perfect.
Yutapon wants to prove himself in front of his old friend Watanabe. They haven't worked together since Bebop, and he was always animating the important scenes in Bebop.
That's a good point.
And about Bahi JD, I hope he will animate more shots, his work on Apollon was really short.
Episode 5 has Hori.
His part should be at least decent.
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Anonymous2013-10-28 9:14
>>837
Hori is good, I will check out his part.
He is the only good and individual in-house animator at Trigger.
Hori doesn't try to be an Imaishi copy-cat.
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Anonymous2013-10-28 10:22
>>838
You sure Hori is in-house? Also, there are guys like Sushio and Yoshinari who aren't Imaishi copycats at all.
Why are you people still bringing up Kill la Kill here? It's barely mediocre animation wise. You might as well insist we discuss Monogatari Second Season too. Is everyone just trolling the series at this point?
For once the "budget" bullshit is true. Yes, KLK does not have the purse of one of the most expensive anime of the early 2000s. I know this shit ass series is popular as fuck, especially with a certain crowd, but can't you give it a rest already? If you really think/hope it will get some "sakuga" moments eventually, wait until that happens. "Discussing" the absence of something in KLK is beating a dead horse.
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Anonymous2013-10-29 7:57
If you really think/hope it will get some "sakuga" moments eventually, wait until that happens.
I'm with you.
Enough of this shit.
Here watch some old school sakuga mads to rest it out
The bulk of the cost for it was expended prior to the film. Disney was doing "research" with CG a few years prior to Lion King. The scene itself didn't shouldn't have cost more than the salaries of the staff involved. So pretty much the same as today, adjusted to inflation.
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Anonymous2013-10-30 3:21
The thing with older CG is also the attitude involved. It was used to lighten the load on animators, but it wasn't yet "old" enough at the time to allow people to do it in a half-assed way like in many more recent productions. It was new and "experimental", so everyone was worrying and wanting it to look good and consistent with the overall look of the product. And this isn't true only of big budget animated features in the west. You can really see this trend in anime too. Just look at GITS and compare it to Gargantia for example. "Surprisingly" little progress in this department over 10 years.
CG grew into this ugly shit because staff stopped caring, and a sizable portion of the viewer base didn't and doesn't give a fuck either way.
Sakuga pt.12 - Tetsuya Takeuchi and the One-Man Episode
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Anonymous2013-10-30 4:51
>>871
Shame there's no mention of Takeuchi's Naoko-san work. Interesting that the speaker would associate Takeuchi's approach to animation with Iso's in terms of how they use the number of drawings to great effect.
Just 50 million USD. Anime is still pretty cheap. Even marketing shouldn't put it above 100 million. Of course, the movie won't turn a "profit" because even Ghibli is as creative with its accounting as it is with its films. Kaze Tachinu still "didn't" turn a profit even after 120 million dollars in revenue, probably at least 3 times what it cost. Suzuki is a bro though. He should just let Oshii burn some of those money again sometime.
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Anonymous2013-11-01 9:43
Next week = KenO Gundam BF episodes
Will Tanaka come?
Another Steamboy? The fact that they brought cost into the picture during promotion is going to jinx it. I myself have a knee-jerk reaction to these kinds of promotional methods. Who gives a shit how much it cost? I want to see a film that's good, not one that is just expensive. It's like they're begging people to go to the cinemas since they'll go bust otherwise. Well, I'd skip just to spite them.
It's just as wrong to say this of this film as it was for Redline. The production cycle isn't spent exclusively on animation. Relatively speaking, the animation portion itself is actually pretty fast.
You know, Dennou Coil was in production for 10 years.
>900
>It's like they're begging people to go to the cinemas since they'll go bust otherwise
That's exactly what they're doing. Takahata is not as renowned as Miyazaki and his last film flopped against meager competition. They need all the money they can squeeze out of people.
I don't think the film will be bad though, promotion campaigns won't retroactively change the production and Takahata has not made a truly bad thing in his entire career.
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Anonymous2013-11-01 18:04
>>902
Why did you post Bahi's favorite videos playlist?
Are you Bahi?
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Anonymous2013-11-01 19:14
>>910
>Why did you post Bahi's favorite videos playlist?
Why not? I was stalking his youtube account, there are lots of forgotten sakuga material in there.
In the "west" maybe. He is just as well known as Miyazaki in Japan.
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Anonymous2013-11-02 5:28
>>919
People might know who he is, but he's not some sort of national treasure like Miyazaki. Just compare the revenue of his films against what Miyazaki's films do.
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Anonymous2013-11-02 6:16
Grave of the Fireflies is one of the most powerful anti-war films ever made.
It doesn't matter if people know him or not,
he is as great as Miyazaki.
He is. He even got the honorary Medal with a Purple Ribbon from the Emperor of Japan. Miyazaki didn't, yet. Everyone knows of Heidi, Akage no Anne, Grave of the Fireflies and even Omohide Poroporo.
the revenue of his films
Tonari no Yamada-kun is the only one of his films that didn't do that well at the box office. If you think Takahata isn't a household name, you are gravely mistaken. He doesn't get millions to spend because he's Miyazaki's "buddy".
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Anonymous2013-11-02 6:42
he's Miyazaki's "buddy"
He's not just his buddy. He's his senpai. Takahata was directing anime for over a decade before Miyazaki, and was very successful.
You'd be surprised, but if we are to talk about revenue, classics like Totoro and Laputa were flops. After Nausicaa, Miyazaki only found commercial success with Kiki Delivery Service.
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Anonymous2013-11-02 8:05
>>924
You got this from that Takahata interview, no? He also said that Totoro wasn't a flop if you took into account merchandise.
I know Only Yesterday was #1 on its year, and I think Pompoko as well. But I'm talking about when Ghibli started getting really big, i.e. post-Mononoke. Yamadas flopped, while Spirited Away is the highest grossing film in the history of Japan. Howl's is close to that, hell, even Arriety made more money than any Takahata film.
I don't think Kaguyahime will straight-out bomb, but if it was really as expensive as they say, they'll need to make a ton of money to cover the costs (even Kaze Tachinu hasn't paid for itself yet, according to Suzuki).
>>921
Grave is like, the worst Takahata film. And I think he's the best, most important director in the history of anime. But that doesn't translate into money, unfortunately.
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Anonymous2013-11-02 8:05
Most of the people here are obviously too young.
Takahata has been playing a very big role for Ghibli and the 20th century film history.
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Anonymous2013-11-02 8:35
>>926 Most of the people here are obviously too young.
Yeah, Miyazaki was barely known prior to Nausicaa. In the early days, most of the credit Ghibli had came by association of the staff with Suzuki and Takahata. People don't really realize this, especially (or almost exclusively) outside of Japan. Or maybe it's just the anglophone countries that didn't get any World Masterpiece Theatre anime series.
>>938
But half the young animators can't draw and produce bland stuff. None of them have come close to Iso, not that any of them care about realism or mechanical animation anymore.
Only that Space Dandy has many experienced animators confirmed. Bahi is clearly one of the weaker animators in the Space Dandy circle. And it looks like it will be a high budget show unlike the mesh called Kill La Kill.
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Anonymous2013-11-03 23:33
>>944
Please, you were harboring the similar hopes for 3.0 and we all know how that turned out. Just look forward to Kaguyahime, that's the sakuga movie of the decade.
>>958
Feel free to latch on to a simple mistake, but I stand by my opinion that there's nothing fresh about Madoka's visuals.
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Anonymous2013-11-04 13:11
>>947
Looks great, but I'm afraid that PV just showed all of the best parts. We'll see what happens in 5 days.
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Anonymous2013-11-04 14:24
>>942
realism type animation doesn't automatically mean good animation
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Anonymous2013-11-04 14:28
>>942
Kanada/Imaishi animation doesn't always mean good animation neither.
What kind of shit argument was that dude, you can say this about everything.
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Anonymous2013-11-04 22:59
>>961
As the scarce examples of young animators trying to do "realism" demonstrate, yes. This is why Iso is missed. Utsunomiya as well.
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Anonymous2013-11-05 0:42
Bahi JD and Shingo Takenaka have the potential to be Utsunomiya and Okiura successors respectively, now all we need is someone to follow in Iso's footsteps
Glorious rotations. When is FLCL's spiritual successor going to come out? Tsurumaki please, finish with Eva faster.
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Anonymous2013-11-05 2:36
I think there are no 'Iso imitators' because his animation doesn't really have any outward feature that's easy to see, dissect and reproduce. Ohira has the wobbliness, jagged lineworkd and hyperreal faces, Hashimoto is similar but more solid/weighty and he has distinctive folds and shading (at times). Kanada had the timing and poses, and he's probably the most easily imitable animator. Of course the gimmicks most 'Kanada' guys pull off have nothing on Kanada's own animation. The super-solid guys like Inoue or Okiura have the technique, but their approach is easily understandable and some people do imitate it. And so on, even new animators like Tanaka have like thousands of copycats.
But Iso didn't really have a shtick like that. Doing all the drawings yourself doesn't tell you much about the technique, neither does using 3s and 2s alternatively (basically everyone in Japan does something like this, with different types of animation). People say his animation didn't go pose to pose but flowed better, but that's more a statement of quality rather than describing his technique.
So yeah, it's hard to 'imitate' Iso because doing so would entail being an extremely good animator. Something most copycats really aren't.
NRAMA: In your view, what are some untapped gems still out there in the comic industry that would make good movies?
KG: I think 100 Bullets would make a good film. I’d also like to see Captain America and Alias. I tell you what I’d
really like to see, classic comic storylines made into feature length animated films. I mean on the level of Ghost In
The Shell, Akira, Ninja Scroll, Wicked City or even The Iron Giant. Just imagine Crisis On Infinite Earths and Kingdom
Come directed by Mamoru Oshii. Or the Kree/Skrull War, or the Galactus Trilogy done by Hiroyuki Kitakubo?
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Anonymous2013-11-05 5:29
>>969 Crisis On Infinite Earths and Kingdom Come directed by Mamoru Oshii. Or the Kree/Skrull War, or the Galactus Trilogy done by Hiroyuki Kitakubo?
It'll probably be rubbish given the track record of japanese-made adaptations of western comic franchises, not that DC/Marvel's own animated features will do better though. When's the last time their animated features were actually well-made?
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Anonymous2013-11-05 9:00
>>970
Some of the recent TMS animated DC films have some nice layout and animation.
I think it was mentioned in the past threads. One of them even had some H Tanaka.
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Anonymous2013-11-05 9:02
Build Fighters 5; KenO episode had some nice mecha action.
Bahi JD and Shingo Takenaka have the potential to be Utsunomiya and Okiura successors respectively, now all we need is someone to follow in Iso's footsteps
As far as I remember, Bahi said he doesn't want to follow anyone or become like the people he admires. But he said that he studied them all in order to later become a good animator and find his own style.
I don't think anyone can step into the footsteps of someone else.
See Goro Miyazaki, he tried to become like his father, failed.
See Kameda, tried to be better than Kanada, failed, now doing his own thing, FINALLY.
But that's normal,
all the animators we know used to imitate someone when they were young.
Check out old works by Ohira and Okiura and you will see what I mean.
It's part of the development of their own style.
It's normal that Takenaka reminds us to Okiura. He works with Okiura. They look up to their masters, but that doesn't mean that they will copy them.
There will never be another Iso, nor another Ohira or anyone else.
But there will be phases where young animators will remind us to certain masters.
And I don't even want to see another Iso guy, I rather prefer something new.
Iso's animation is already godly, I don't need someone to imitate him.
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Anonymous2013-11-05 13:19
Before we talking about Bahi as new somesthing something we should wait until he has more than just one cut in an anime production.