Animation Appreciation Thread #19

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The Sakuga Wiki [JP] - http://www18.atwiki.jp/sakuga/
Good Animation Blog - http://www.pelleas.net/aniTOP/
Other websites: http://pastebin.com/q0saM3Qi
Animation on Twitter, Tumblr and Youtube:
http://pastebin.com/EGi9EH5a

IRC channel:
#sakuga @ irc.rizon.net
Sakugabooru: http://sakuga.yshi.org/

Appreciate sakuga fall pls

>>360

Counter what? Your whining?

Animemirai key visuals
4ºC
http://anifav.com/animemirai/image/1014kuro_key.jpg
Watanabe x Kaneko
http://anifav.com/animemirai/image/1014ichinensei_key.jpg
Yoshiura x Ikariya
http://anifav.com/animemirai/image/1014harmonie_key.jpg
Kameda x Shinei x Pablo
http://anifav.com/animemirai/image/1014paroru_key.jpg

Well what do you know, Kameda's short looks delightful. Fresh as fuck.
The others look potentially interesting too, but more as overall shorts rather than visually.

>>333

Does this mean we'll get animation from the likes of Honda, or is it just the typical assistance with inbetweens and whatnot? Also, source?

>>363
Henshin might be honda, the face looks like a girl from the new eva movies.

>>363
Also, source?
If something is posted here, just look up twitter, it should be there. Unless it's fake.


I have a question too:

I'm watching actually Disney movies (again) and wanted to know which of them is the best-animated. I've only watched a handful as yet and Alice in Wonderland is so far the best I saw. That amount of high-level-animation for the whole movie is extreme. I wonder if any other movie from them can top that.

And for movies from the west generally The Thief and the Cobbler (haven't seen it yet) would be the best, right? What comes near it?

Lion king and jungle book

>>365

Fantasia is the best animated movie of all time.

>>367
How does the original Fantasia compare to Fantasia 2000? I've only seen the Firebird Suite, which I thought was good.

The Thief's animation was less realistic but more fluid than Disney's classics.
I'd say it's quite unique and interesting to watch.

>>367
Allegro non Troppo is the superior version of Fantasia.

As someone who loves animation, this season while it's pretty good animation wise; works with terrible content.

KLK has disappointingly low budget but has entertaining execution. But it makes me feel I'm watching Adult Swim garbage like Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

KNK is well done as usual for a KyoAni show but damn the shittyness of it all. The material it's working on is just terrible. Ishidate can't handle a major project without falling in the same problems Kigami had with Munto.

Kyousogiga...... The story isn't working for me at all... So far it hasn't even been worthy of praise at all. If I were to judge the new content that is..

Too much hype sakuga friends. This season is pretty damn dead in my eyes.

>>371
People were hyping "sakuga fall", not "awesome writing fall" I don't see the problem here.

>>372

Not him, but people were wrong either way. Sakuga fall this season ain't. Yozakura and KLK already had disappointing second episodes (one more so than the other). KNK is just the usual and Kyousougiga was, well, it had some cool cuts.

It's just another season, is what I'm saying. Writing or animation wise.

>>373
You also had Takeuchi on Yuushibu and an onslaught of 2D mecha in GBF. Most shows haven't had their standout episodes yet, so just wait for it.

Also, not pertinent to us, but this Fall's the season in which the most well animated thing ever created by man is coming out.

>>374
the most well animated thing ever created by man is coming out.

>implying Kaguya-hime will beat The Thief and the Cobbler's animation

>>370

Will check it out.

>>375

It's amazing how difficult it is to top that film even in its unfinished state.

>>373
Next time you should put effort in your troll attempt.

It's just another season, is what I'm saying
Which season in recent times is better? None. It wasn't as good as we hoped it would be (so far), but it's still much better than most seasons.

Also

Yozakura had a disappointing second episode
It was a bit worse than the first, which is great for Tatsunoko, but still good-animated.

>>375
Cobbler just has a lot of frames. I like what Disney was doing in Fantasia or Bambi better honestly, and I sure as hell prefer stuff like Jin-Roh or Akira.

Kaguyahime will have a ton of frames too. I don't know how they contabilize this and it doesn't seem right, but they said 500,000 drawings. If that means frames, well, Ponyo had ~170,000 for comparison. I don't think it'll have 500,000 frames though, they probably counted in other numbers as 'drawings'.

http://niceboat.org/jlab-20s/s/20s00481317.gif

I will lose my interest for Kill La Kill if episode 3 is on the same level as 1 and 2.

Not sure if Kill La Kill will deliver the sakuga we've been waiting for.
I really hope that Osamu Koyabashi's episode is going to deliver at least one ultimate sakuga episode. I put all my hope on Kobayashi, the rest of the team will be just like episode 1 and 2.


Well then, I guess I will wait for the next season.
What do we got?

Space Dandy will be the real sakuga show we all have been waiting for.

>>382

Space Dandy will be the real sakuga show we all have been waiting for.

Let's see..

Yutaka Nakamura ✓
Gosei Oda ✓
Yoshiyuki Ito ✓
Masaaki Yuasa ✓
Kazuto Nakazawa ✓
Norimitsu Suzuki ✓
Bahi JD ✓
Shinji Hashimoto ✓
Hisashi Mori (maybe) ✓
Takeshi Koike ✓
Hiroyuki Okiura (maybe) ✓
Hidetsugu Ito ✓
Shinya Ohira (maybe)
Michio Mihara (because of Yuasa) ✓
Shuichi Kaneko ✓
Hideki Kakita ✓


the real sakuga show we all have been waiting for

yup, I think this one might work out.

>>383

Bones is the only TV production studio that still delivers high quality sakuga.


Although, guys, let's not  go totally hopeless.
Kill La Kill has 26 episodes, I think there are going to be a few episodes with ultimate sakuga in there, I have a good feeling about this.

They can't possibly pull off the same sakuga quality of ep.1 and ep.2 through 26 episodes. I'm sure they have something to offer sakuga vise for a few episodes.

which animators do the best camera movements?
I mean when the animator himself moves the camera with the object,character,BG whatever.

>>385
I would say Norimitsu Suzuki, because he does it a lot and he does it very well.

There are other animators that do it too, but they don't do it so often, so I can't really judge that.

>>376
It's amazing how difficult it is to top that film even in its unfinished state.

The Thief and the Cobbler is extremely fluid, but for sheer movement it isn't the best. Hardly any background animation and the most time you see only one character moving or some still background shots. Of course, when something is moving, then it's unrivaled like here:

http://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/29/animated-richard_williams-the_thief_and_the_cobble

Disney's best classics like Fantasia have more animation as a whole. For the movie itself and for the most scenes.

>>378
Cobbler just has a lot of frames. I like what Disney was doing in Fantasia or Bambi better honestly, and I sure as hell prefer stuff like Jin-Roh or Akira.

This is like saying "I hate KyoAni's anime because the only thing they're doing is boring character animation with moe-content" and don't accepting that their series are generally very good animated. Even Akira isn't on the same level as the west, animation-wise.

>>387
Hardly any background animation and the most time you see only one character moving or some still background shots

Just like almost every animation ever?
I don't know why you had to bring this up.
It's not like background animation is common especially in the west.

>>388

I think he means scenes shot with a multi-plane camera, not background animation. Disney films used the multi-plane camera extensively. I actually really like the effect that you achieve with that. It's almost as good as background animation. Actually even better at moments, purely because you get an illusion of 3-dimensional movement with the level of detail of background art.

And it's so strange that the method is not used more often nowadays when you have the advantage of digital layers. You don't have to move huge glass panels around anymore. And yet, the technique is somehow lost and only gets seldom use. Can't even blame it on CGI backgrounds or anything (and since I'm on this subject, I actually prefer multi-plane scenes to actual 3D backgrounds because the character is much better integrated in the layout that way, since every component is still two dimensional). People really seem to have forgotten that multi-plane exists.

A shame...

>>387
I didn't say I hated Cobbler. I didn't say it was badly animated either. I have different aesthetic preferences, that's just it.
For example, I don't really care for the gif you posted. I recognize it's good and takes effort, I just don't really like that bouncy style. It feels hyperactive, with a lot of superfluous movements that just add to the floaty, exaggerated feel where every single movement and expression is extremely played up. Disney did that too, but Williams takes it to such an extreme it goes right back to being drab (which is how I also feel about a lot of Disney films, especially the "Renaissance" ones).

At any rate, saying things like "X is not on the same level as Y" like there is some sort of objective ranking of things is far more retarded.

>>389
I really love Multi-plane camera in Oshii's old movies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTsam4bTeIo

In GitS, Multiplane backgrounds were done in computer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB-ik-Bpl0c

>>387
>>388
>>389
>>390

What the fuck are you all talking about?!


I didn't say Cobbler this and that, 3D shit x y you retard strange CGI background a shame.


WHAT THE FUCK?! Please get out!

>>389

even better at moments

For example, the track shots through the forest in Bambi or The Fox and the Hound. No matter how much work you'd pour into background animation you wouldn't make it look as good as those cuts look. Trees and leaves are like the biggest hassle to animate (I don't know a single cuts with animated trees that does not simplify them to really noticeable degrees, especially in background animation). Getting that level of fidelity is so impractical it might as well be impossible.

>>392

What.

>>388
Maybe background animation was the wrong term, yet I don't see your problem. I said that the movie had it's focus on single character animation as it was shown the most time. Only few scenes with other characters in it and some movement in the background at the end if I recall correctly.

That's to be expected with that fluid movement though, they couldn't have all. That GIF is a good example for the almost perfect movement of a single entity and also that there's not much additionally.

>>390
What do you want here then? "I like that more than that" is clearly not the topic here. I also like anime more for it's content and visual style, doesn't matter though if the west is shitting on Japan in term of animation.

Also, animation is always objective, don't see your point. Maybe you're just too butthurt.

>>391

Yeah, those look really good. And they don't even have more than 5 layers at most.

>>392
Drugs are a bad idea.

>>395
animation is always objective

Are you implying that animation quality can be measured objectively, without accounting for different styles, contexts and the subjective tastes of the viewers (and with viewers I mean everyone from the animators themselves to the directors, "critics" and everyone else)?

Well it can't. Otherwise you wouldn't have animation people arguing about who the best animator is, or what was the most well-animated scene, or arguing about whether 1s or 2s are better, or leaving studios because of differences in approach. All of this is from Western, Disney people by the way.

Catnapped has a couple of cool cuts shot with a multiplane camera at the beginning of the film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et66xBP0fCs&t=3m45s

(this one goes straight into a background animation cut, very cool)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et66xBP0fCs&t=6m07s

It's really good to see here because most of the other cuts are just slides over a single background layer. The multiplane cuts "pop-up" right away and look so much better. They could've used it more extensively, but I guess it was a budget and time issue.

>>395
That GIF is a good example for the almost perfect movement of a single entity

Also forgot to say: If the whole movie was as good and permanent as that GIF, then it could be very well the best animated movie of the world. Which it wasn't sadly.

>>398
Animation=movement. It doesn't matter if there are people who don't want to admit that fact or simply don't know it better. And for movement it always goes like this: The more the better. You know, there are people who would say animated Genga is NOT animation.

There is not really an animation style, but there are drawing styles. And you can't arguing about who the best animator in general is, yes, but you can compare works from some animators and arguing who did the best work from them. Though there are clear lines between the really good and the not so good animators.

I myself don't know much about 1s and 2s yet, but I don't see how less frames could be better then more frames. It isn't automatically worse, depending on the cut, but better?