American animation only! Avery, Clampett, Jones etc.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 4:17
Teach me about western sakuga
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 4:22
>>3
Typical americlaps, forgetting about yurop as usual...
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 4:29
>>4
The principle of solid drawing means taking into account forms in three-dimensional space, giving them volume and weight.[14] The animator needs to be a skilled draughtsman and has to understand the basics of three-dimensional shapes, anatomy, weight, balance, light and shadow, etc.[34] For the classical animator, this involved taking art classes and doing sketches from life.[35]
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 4:29
Glen Keane is a god.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 4:37
Benny Washam Sakuga MAD when?
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 4:40
>>6
Shouldn't that just be the basics of animation? Surely western and japanese animation can't be that fundamentally different.
We should make a MAD on the 12 principles using anime.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 5:47
The mentioning of Benny Washam lead me to John K. and now I read a post where he says he has always preferred WB over Disney cartoon because he can identify with the characters. >>9
No see this.
American cartoons like God first made them. Three dimensional like apple pie. http://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/pbanimation08-791273.jpg
>>16
It's kinda hard to make sakuga MAD for western animators since they don't draw the whole scene, but rather a portion of it. Which characters are animated by Kahl in the video?
>>25 North Korea's cartoon industry has become quite sophisticated as a result of its cooperation with France and Italy in their animation projects since 1983. North Korea's animation skills now rank among the world's best, experts say.
>>27
I've watched a few north korean cartoons. They're actually pretty good.
Soviet had some great animation, too.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-28 7:25
>>27
Whenever I read what "experts say" about I subject I know I get the same reaction for some reason. It's almost like media always has an expert ready to say exactly what they want hear.
Manuloz linked this
To commemorate the release of the new Berserk movie studio 4°c is collaborating with GREE on their Sengoku Kingdom mobile game. The staff of the movie + some of the best designer from 4°c will provide new design to the game.
>>28
Man, I know the VAs have to put on a fake cutesy act, but all 4 of them doing is like uuuuuuugghhhhhhhhhh my eaaaaarrsss - shut up and let the animators talk!
Fuck you. No, seriously. FUCK. YOU.
And Bahi JD a shit.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-29 11:25
>>63
Why would you even respond to an old post and bring that back up?
>>62
0:13 - 0:50 looks like Panzer World Galient
0:50 - 1:20 is Captain Power Training Videos
2:24 - 2:32 is ZZ Gundam
3:57 - 4:04 is FLCL
4:10 - 4:41 is Animatrix
4:48 - 5:19 is Ghost in the Shell 2
5:20 - 5:38 is Howls Moving Castle
I don't know the others.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-29 12:08
>>62
1:20-1:36 Akira
2:32-2:45 Angel Cop
2:46-3:02 Violence Jack
3:12-3:22 Junkers Come Here
3:23-3:43 The Hakkenden
4:41-4:48 Windy Tales
5:58-6:30 Tekkonkinkreet
Is... it safe to go back..?
Nothing has been spammed for a while.
Perhaps we should wait here a few days (Until Friday?)
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 16:02
>>73
We should stay here at least until this thread hits the post limit. There's no point making a new thread when this one is still alive.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 16:21
Yama no Susume #5
Matsuo Yuusuke solo key.
The whole episode looks so KyoAni-ish.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 16:33
>>75
Speaking of KyoAni, anything good in Tamako Market?
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 16:55
>>76
The animation is more lively than the last 2 episodes.
It has some weird smoke effect animation, too.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 17:01
>>77
Cool, hopefully someone translates the credits soon.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 17:22
Tamako Market #4
Enshutsu/storyboarding: Noriyuki Kitanohara
Animation director: Shouko Ikeda
KA: Kitanohara, Mariko Takahashi, etc.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 18:30
Compare the non main cast in Sora no woto with Tamako Market. Akai can't just draw cute girls but can also create old men, women etc. Horiguchi can't come up with a good design for someone past high school age.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 18:34
>>80
I don't think highly of Horiguchi's designs, but I don't see anything particularly wrong with her adult character designs.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 19:16
>>81
I think highly of her cute girl designs. She can also draw young women like Sawako's old friends in K-On.
But the Tamako Market adults are like the extras that can be seen in the background of any random show. They're not distinct or appealing in any way.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-30 21:41
I think Munto has really good designs for adult/old characters.
It would be interesting if anime is allowed to have multiple character designer like western animation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-31 5:35
I don't watch tamako but from promotion pictures, the background characters looked way more interesting than the lead characters who just inspire feelings of "this looks kind of like K-On"
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-31 6:17
>It would be interesting if anime is allowed to have multiple character designer like western animation
This. So much this. And not in the whacky mixture sense of it.
I'd really like to see a series with characters designed by multiple people. Same-facing is too prevalent in anime shows when every chara is conceived by the same person.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-31 9:05
I started watching Space Adventure Cobra a few days ago, without knowing anything about it besides that one gif of Cobra climbing the stairs which gets posted a lot on the gif/animation threads. I didn't even know it was directed by Osamu Dezaki. What I gathered from my rather limited past experience with TV series from 80s was that they looked, well, not very good. Especially compared to high budget movies or OVAs from the same era. But Cobra surprised me a lot, it looked actually good.
Some of the backgrounds are good too. I especially liked the cities and buildings in it. They look, what's the word, funky? Or maybe futuristic? I'm not sure, but it sure as hell is distinct. http://i.imgur.com/R9TDTlK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fZhYhve.jpg
I heard that both Ikuhara and Shinbo are Dezaki copycats. But I must say, the man himself impressed me more than the other two. How are Dezaki's other works? Do they look as good too?
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-31 9:29
>>85 I'd really like to see a series with characters designed by multiple people
Probably not what you are looking for but Obari's SRW anime had multiple chara designers. Partly I'm guessing because of the sheer number of characters in the story. Though they were mostly retooling game designs for the anime.
Japanese CG artists can't even rig the character models properly.
Name:
Anonymous2013-01-31 16:15
What does Paperman do that 2D can't do? Whats the benefit of using CG here? Maybe I'm missing something but to do all this work to do something almost as good as the thing you don't want to do (traditional animation) seems strange.
Tamako's such a disappointment. Both animation and premise wise. I just hope someone would post some mad so I can easily watch the interesting sequences. I'm too bored to watch this horrible show.
I still haven't seen the potential of paper man. Doesn't give me any vibe of 2D animation. It's too smooth. Too perfect.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-01 13:58
cool ! i'm here!
thanks for the link
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-01 14:10
>>110
Animation-wise as well? How so? It looks like typical KyoAni quality to me.
>>111 Doesn't give me any vibe of 2D animation. It's too smooth. Too perfect.
There's the lineart for starters, looks like a pencil outline. The smoothness is also pretty much like the typical Disney hand-drawn animation isn't it? I suspect that it won't look as convincing if there was color added though.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-01 14:13
Guys !
what do you think of the Korra fight choregraphies and the storyboard quality ?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-01 14:20
It's too smooth. Too perfect
Nah, Classic Disney films are more smooth than this.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-01 14:20
>>114
I'm more impressed by the non-action scenes. The action isn't bad, but it just lacks that final polish to make it good. It's like the movement isn't as smooth as it should be, like there's a timing issue or something? There were two occasions that I rather liked the action though, episode 3 and episode 8. http://i.imgur.com/dgQpOTs.jpg
That fight in episode 3 had a rather neat storyboard in my opinion.
>>132
Snipes has done KA on all 5 eps so far. His ep 1 cut was when the robot went nuclear, burned the teacher etc.. http://i.imgur.com/IpLfpnV.jpg
Though that cut from the new ep 6 trailer might not be snipes. But I am sure it is not Kim. Doesn't look like any of his Gundam AGE shots. Kim's work tends to be like that of Hironori Tanaka.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-01 19:42
>>137
I guess ANN's info is incomplete then, it didn't list him as doing KA
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-01 20:02
>>138
He's listed there under his real name Toshio Kobayashi.
Is he dividing his videos in character acting / action ? There's an awful lot of the first here, and I assume most of the action sakuga will be in volume 2.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-03 5:25
>>150
I don't think there's a specific theme, there were a bunch of action cuts in there as well. By the way, isn't Utsunomiya's cut at the end CGI? I could've sworn that entire short video that he did for the NHK(?) program was done in CGI.
>>181
That was interesting. I can't say I ever thought Disney's animation was over-animated, but I must say despite anime utilisng limited animation, fairly expressive animation is still possible.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-05 18:13
>>181 "Limited, Family Guy, King of the Hill, venture brothers style animation is more pleasing to the eye and produces funnier scenerios than Disney full animation which is mainly for very young children".
lel
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-05 22:19
Why did the production of FMP switch studios anyway? Too many projects for Gonzo?
What a shame, no water sakuga in Tamako Market #5.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-06 16:48
What are some shows with consistent animation throughout?
What I mean is, most anime have first episodes with great animation since they often allocate large budgets to attract viewers but then subsequent episodes see huge falloffs in quality.
I'm going to ignore post-2007 KyoAni shows since they do well in this regard.
I can think of Dennou Coil, that was mainly due to Mitsuo Iso's great skill and craftmanship leading the show.
>>197
I heard Ninku was pretty well animated, especially for a show of its length.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-06 19:06
>>197
I don't know if this is the type of consistency you're looking for, but Yuasa shows tend to be interesting on a weekly basis due to the amount of talent involved.
If you're talking about actual movement then I'll add Xam'd, Soul Eater and Eureka Seven for Bones productions. Gurren Lagann is also pretty good, but it also depends on how much you like the overall aesthetic.
If you're looking for good animation it's better to hunt down OVAs or movies since TV series were mostly meant to be cheap and mass produced.
This thread seems kind of dead. I wonder if it has to do with the lackluster season or the fact that we moved to /carcom/.
>>196
The episode was kind of weak as a whole, animation-wise. It probably has to do with the sakkan (Seiichi Akitake).
Are the staff listings for the next eps still not out?
Also Yama no Susume is surprising. Great BGs, a lot of Yuusuke Matsuo, it feels like an actual production and then some. Future of anime, etc.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-07 4:05
>>206
Apparently there's nothing remarkable about that listing, it's all the usual staff.
>>226
Old news is old. He's one of those anime fans that tries to make big statements about ~anime~ without actually knowing much. His sakuga rant was all based off wrong/misinformed opinions.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-07 13:14
>>231
My mommy told me that everyone's opinion was valid.
>>231
I see , sorry
yeah it's seems old from 2011
I found that today by chance.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-07 14:21
>>231
It's interesting to see why people enjoy animation quality.
Do you guys like it because it enhances whatever cut is in, or do you just like the visual pleasure of seeing things moving right?
I (and I'm betting most of this thread) am in the latter camp, but I know many knowledgeable sakugafags that tend to see animation in function of a whole.
If I am just generally watching a show and the animation is used well enough to enhance a dramatic moment then I simply adore 'sakuga' - at the same time if it is used on something very pointless with no really emphasis I am left confused.
Conversely I also like looking into an animator's past and seeing other works they might have done, even if I end up watching it out of context.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-07 15:03
>>237
I'm happy to see any instances of good animation, that's all there is to it for me.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-07 16:46
Psycho-Pass #16's fight scene is probably the best cut in the series yet.
>>244
I'd not say it's terrible, but if that's the best cut in the whole show I have to wonder why anyone would subject their eyes to it.
I agree that the movement was choppy, but I didn't really like the choreography that much either. There was no concrete flow of action and it seemed like a bunch of shit mashed together instead of progressing as a single unity.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-07 18:35
>>245
The fighting moves were fine, I'd say some of it looked like proper martial arts moves. It's the animation and perhaps storyboard that dragged it down.
I keep reading about how Miyazaki made Ponyo as hand crafted as possible. So did Ghibli use actual paint and cels or is this just referring to the lack of CGI for the movie like what was used in Princess Mononoke?
>>254
Ghibli has been using digital cels since Spirited Away.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-08 9:06
Via @liborek3
-Star Driver The Movie staff http://i.imgur.com/GosvMvn.jpg
-Yutapon, Shingo Fujii, Takashi Tomioka, KenOh, Yutaka Kamogawa, Hironori Tanaka, Shigeto Koyama, Yoshiyuki Ito, Shingo Abe
-Judging from the number of key animators, new part should be about 30-45 minutes long. It all depends on how big part Yutapon animated.
Kinda wish Bari was here as well. Would have been nice to see him work on some HQ budget cuts. Yutapon even retweeted Bari's tweet today.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-08 9:17
>>258 new part should be about 30-45 minutes long
That's nice, what's the total running time?
>>266
There are two nice cuts around the end but it's really mediocre for a movie, especially considering how short it'll be. Can we have Ando back?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-08 13:35
>>267
Actually, I wonder how Ando is able to direct both Tempest and HanaIro at the same time
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-08 15:08
>>268
I'm guessing enshutsu work is being done by someone else...?
Since it's only 1 hour long it can't have taken that much time, especially if they began work when the show ended.
Apparently Chikashi Kubota animated in SSY #19. Hopefully it's an interesting cut.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-08 19:28
Koike Lupin had less than 3 weeks per episode of animation time. No wonder the show ended up so poor looking in the production values for something that aimed so high..
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-08 19:33
>>272
What's the average animation time like for most anime? Also, where did you read about that?
>>273
Thomas Romain, a gaijin Satelight employee. He was replying to your exact same question:
>The preproduction of a show (script and first designs) starts around 9 and 12 months before airing in general.
>The firsts eps are produced slowly then it accelerates until the end. Episodes are still produced during broadcast of the firsts
>Once the storyboard is finished we need 7 weeks to achieve a standard qualiry ep. Sometimes it can be a lot shorter!
>10 On last year Lupin show. Friends told me they had less than 3 weeks from animation start till airing! Insane even for Japan.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-09 1:57
>>275
What's the point of even trying to air shows with a schedule like that? There must have been some big issue in there for it to get so fucked up.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-09 3:11
Shinsekai Yori 19 was really good, there were a lot of very powerful cuts. Although that may be the storyboard in part, which was just pure genius.
Why don't studios have more in-house employees anyway? Most of his problems seem to stem from this.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-09 5:30
>>277
You're right, it was one hell of an episode. Quite a few good cuts nearing the end, and like you said the storyboard was good as well.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-09 6:02
Is there any place where credits are transcripted into copy-paste-able characters for ongoing shows? I can manage with that, but just with the MKV video or a screencap I'm totally lost.
I've looked around the sakuga wiki but it doesn't seem to cover too much of that.
Because of salaries? With such fickle industry and little allocated money for each project I don't think many studios can sustain more permanent staff than the strictly necessary.
Import this list of names: http://www.mediafire.com/?1dccyeyqmut2dh4
It's a list I've been making over time, it contains most popular animators. When you hit Shift+F8 or right click on a page, it will convert kanji into a readable name.
It's not perfect, but if you can't read kanji then this is a compromise, only thing is you have to add new names yourself or rely on someone to update it for you.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-09 6:32
>>286
It works around 7833 yen for each... that is way too much.
Yeah. Maybe the seller will end up auctioning them individually or by author instead, because I want to get my hands on a couple of those Imaishi's 'genga' books that are difficult to obtain now.
>>319
What do you mean? Are you talking about how stiff the movements are?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-10 15:35
oh god that dance made me laugh so hard. That looked like key animation without any 'tweening
looked like she was having an aneurysm, gg A-1
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-10 15:37
I did not expect this but Nadia episode 13 was almost insane animation wise. Even more surprising since the episode is so sloppily put together (poor transitions, layers and cells move in the frame almost every time there's a prolonged shot, or cells outright disappearing at one point towards the end, and a lot, and I mean a LOT of recycled material). It reminded me of Birth in many ways. Very snappy animation, with quick movements and almost constant motion. And this breathes a lot of life into a pretty wacky scenario otherwise. Very cartoonish, and very fun art overall. Oh and it has a lot of background animation, like every third scene or so has background animation. Many shots feature pretty simplistic animation but it's wacky in a cool way.
At the surface it kinda feels cheap as hell but so creative it left me jaw-dropped and gasping by the end. The storyboard is great, the train and Gargoyle robot chase scenes were so good, with a lot of pretty insignificant but quirky details that spice it all up so well. Like bulling a giant boulder outta nowhere (or hammer space, however you choose to call it) - this kind of stuff. Masayuki took some risks with this I think, because the style is pretty different from the other episodes.
It has to be one of the best bottle episodes I have ever seen. Definitely need to look up who worked in this episode. I'm watching that THORA rip that uses chapters so the ending is always the same, any tips where I can find the staff other than ANN which is incomplete?
I wonder what could be the reason for having two directors.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-11 3:07
>>328 I’d like the industry to say something different, but they keep doing the same thing over and over. They think it’s the only way to make anime, but I don’t think so.
I think the industry is losing market share. It’s shrinking. We have to find something else and think about a different audience, not only single males.
Industry confirmed for dying
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-11 4:13
>>331
It's always dying. Tell me something new for a change.
>>330
One of them will probably be credited as assistant episode director.
But why are they directing Utsumi's storyboard?
Why wouldn't she direct the episode by herself when the only thing she's done so far is KA for the OP?
Hiroko Utsumi might be having her directorial debut.
I hope that OP is just a placeholder, it's rather unremarkable. Animation-wise, ARISE should be able to deliver. There's just something about the visuals that bug me a little. The visuals in the daytime scenes look a bit too bright or something like that. It's like there's not much of a difference from 2nd Gig's.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 8:45
Lets wait for a HD trailer, both have been terrible 360p rips with horrible encoding.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 8:53
The brawl in Sakurasou #18, any idea who did that? I'm not sure if that's Tomioka.
"Shitty" colour direction you mean. It's like they used a gray filter over everything, and the colours look a little washed out. Eva 1.0 and 2.0 had the same problem, as well as a few other I.G. anime, most recently that Mass Effect film or whatever it was. The S.A.C. version of Gits also had this problem at times.
Compare to Blood The Last Dark and Evangelion Q, where the colours are more pronounced and the contrast is much better.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 10:28
Does anyone have the link to that Eureka 7 AO finale MAD? CAn't find it anymore
What do you think about the animation in the ARIA series?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 15:12
KenO was saying on Twitter he had to draw layout, rough KA and effects all for the sake of some CG.
It begs the question, if you still rely on a 2D animator that much to create your CG, is there really a point?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 15:26
draw layout, rough KA and effects all for the sake of some CG.
How does that work, and what situation would need that much input from hand-drawn animation?
It begs the question, if you still rely on a 2D animator that much to create your CG, is there really a point?
I don't know, maybe it was just to keep visual consistency in whatever show he was working on, so rather than suddenly switch to full hand drawn he was asked to draw something for that cut? I really don't know how that's supposed to work though.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 15:51
>366
>367
Have a look at the making of Evangelion Rebuild 2.22 featurette:
For the running scenes there is a lot of work done in pencil before it transitions over to CG. There's one shot of Unit 01 crouching to get ready to run (it's right at the beginning of the first video) that if you look closely you'll see was fully animated by hand, both keys and in-betweens, before they replaced it with a CG version. Really the featurette just gives off the impression that they were unsure what methods they were going to stick with even quite far into production. The whole thing looks inefficient. I imagine this could be the case for many studios.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 15:55
>>368
I saw that before, but I thought the KA was to serve as a guideline for the CGI animators as to how to move the EVA models about, perhaps to make the movement more "natural"?
Pretty bad staff. This anime is going to sucks in every way, I can already say it.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 16:27
>>371
The animation should be good, or at least I hope it is. Kise should be able to get the likes of Nishio, Okiura and Inoue to animate shouldn't he? I do wonder about his directing ability though, he's never really directed before and suddenly he's handed the reins to such a well-known franchise...
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 16:31
>369
Well yeah, and it makes sense for it to stop at the rough KA stage. You can see it goes way beyond that in places in the Rebuild video.
Was KenO complaining about the amount of work he was having to do, or just stating what he was doing? A layout is normally required for most shots regardless, the rough KA is useful as a guide, and effects animation is usually hand drawn even when the rest is CG. There's also corrections made to keep the CG in check when characters get too close to the camera and they start looking off model.
I don't see the problem. The 2D animator is doing an amount of work, yes, but they're still being relied upon less per CG shot than if they just animated the entire thing themselves.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 16:37
>>372 At least it's going to be something totally new. Maybe a new start for the franchise?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 19:32
>>373
Is KenO talking about Valverave? My hope for that show to have a couple of high profile hand drawn cut suddenly diminished.
>>374
Or a death for the franchise. IG need a original hit so bad after that unpayed project fiasco. I don't think this direction Arise took is going to give them huge profits.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 19:34
>>375
You were actually expecting Valvrave to have hand-drawn mecha? One look at the trailer should've told you that won't be the case.
IG need a original hit so bad after that unpayed project fiasco.
That was from a few years back, it's irrelevant now.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-12 20:10
>>376
Even Gyrozetter have hand-drawn transformation scene. A man can hope. Since this is "baruBRAVE" I was hoping some Brave staff reunion.
Overall visuals get better as the show goes on, but the backgrounds never really do justice to the manga's art. I might have to watch episode 4 of Origination again since it was a solo ep recommended by sakugawiki and compare it to the final OVA to see which one looks better.
A short by Shinkai or KyoAni would be really nice for this series.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-13 1:23
woah, the staff for SSY #20 looks really good. The wiki put down Arasan for key animation too wwwww
Poor in the first 2 seasons. A lot of uninspired CG use, plenty of off-model shots (first season in particular, I don't remember ever seeing an episode without some face drawn like crap at one point or another) and general little and poor animation. Not something you'd watch for the sakuga that's for sure.
The OVA and the last season are significantly better though.
>>384
I assume the titles highlighted in red are the ones that the wiki predicts to have notable animation? Arasan aside, what is remarkable about the other staff for that episode?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-13 5:54
>>377
The hand drawn scene was by Masahiro Yamane, who did some great animation on the Brave shows.
>>375
KenO didn't specify what he was working on. He might have just been venting.
Doing all that drawing only for it to replaced by CGI...
acc. to Akira Hamaguchi, Morgiana's dance in Magi 18 was ruined because they didn't get in-betweens from China in time
Poor Hamaguchi, his work got completely screwed up. Why is Magi such a mess? A-1 has so many titles under their belt, at least the management should know how to organize the work properly.
Well for the most part, it was better than the past eps. Nothing really on the level of hilarity as Chuunibyou but it's still great use of cuts which means it had a good storyboard.
On a side note there was a background animation cut. So that's about the most complex thing probably. Other than that, everything's pretty lively again in contrast to last week's episode(which I found quite lacking), and also some great lighting showing up again.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-13 11:38
Is the Toshokan Sensou movie worth watching for the animation?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-13 12:44
>>398
Background animation by KyoAni? You've got me curious, around when is that cut?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-13 13:43
>>387
He returned on episode 18 of SSY. >>390 no inbetweens
Wow, that makes so much sense now.. hopefully this is fixed in the DVDs
I understand that the animators for a given show are normally paid by the cut/frame, meaning the more animation budget a show has, the more frames it will have. I assume shows normally will get a fixed amount of money/frames per episode (IIRC Toei always put Precure episodes at ~3500 drawings, except for special occasions like HC #48 or Smile #47), so the correlation between amount of frames (regardless of how well they're used) and money is pretty linear.
Where does this leave studios like Kyoani or Ghibli which pay animators a fixed salary based on hours of work? If I'm interpreting this correctly, a Kyoani show wouldn't have a "budget" in the normal sense since they animators are going to get paid in relation to the time spent working, which in turn directly correlates to schedule. So the amount of drawings a given show by these studios has isn't directly proportional to the budget, meaning Nichijou wouldn't necessarily be more expensive than any other given Kyoani show even if it has the most amount of frames.
If they DO have a budget, how does it work? They have a fixed amount of work hours which will vary per show? This doesn't seem very likely. Do they work less than they could potentially work for a "low budget" show? or do they get turned into slaves for shows like Nichijou/whatever takes the most time to animate?
The correlation between amount of frames and money spent doesn't seem so linear here. Does anyone know in detail how this works?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-15 11:16
>>438
More drawings would still incur higher costs, though the animator salaries would be attributed to the working hours instead. I guess the likes of Kyoani have strict deadlines for their animators, which acts as the budget control? Perhaps the hourly rate will also differ, depending on how complex the cut is.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-15 11:36
>>438
Maybe Don't compare long running series wich tv series of 12 or 24 episodes...
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-15 11:36
>>438
Of course they have a budget. If animator salary is based on the time spent working, it should be easy to estimate how many animator work hours you can afford. Using that information you can set a schedule and assign a certain number of animators to work on that project.
>>438
As far as KyoAni is concerned, the biggest difference a budget seems to make is the amount of advertisement the show gets. So comparatively, Tamako Market would be much cheaper with its announcement one month prior to the broadcasting compared to Chuu2Koi's heavy hype starting over 6 months before the show aired and tons of extra material animated for it. Other than that, they seem to keep a similar schedule for everything, which is why we get consistently good animation in all they do.
It's an interesting thing either way, since there's just so much misinformation on the production side of anime. You know how much people love to complain about shows "running out of budget" for certain episodes, as the money available fluctuated every week.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-15 14:27
>>445
The best one is when people talk about a show "having less of a budget" for the remaining episodes due to low sales.
Budget for anime has always perplexed me.
When a show has an episode with more budget does that mean more cuts/drawings are used? But that doesn't always matter if all the drawings are shoddy. I am reminded of Angel Beats boasting it had 10,000 drawings in the first episode, yet most of it looked like crap.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-15 17:46
>>448 When a show has an episode with more budget does that mean more cuts/drawings are used?
IIRC, Gundam Seed had a high episode budget, but the animation was full of stock footage and was pretty unremarkable. There are other places that the money can go to, though normally a high budget/drawing count episode should be well animated.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-15 18:09
Any idea how many drawings were usad for the final Star Driver ep? I remember Shingo Fujii used 800 drawings for one cut.
>>441
So a higher budget project would be the one with a longer schedule? Regarding the amount of animators, most Kyoani episodes are done by 5-7 people, and on occasions when others come to help and the KA list increases, it's often because they're running tight with the schedule and not due to affording more work-hours.
So, anyway, there isn't a trustworthy source for an answer on this it seems. Thanks either way.
Please don't give them any hits. You're just encouraging their retardation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-16 7:27
Say guys, this might be controversial to ask, but who are some animators that are douchebags or hard to work with?
-I've heard that Kitakubo is a bit of a pain in the ass, he got fired from IG and often badmouths things publicly on Twitter (where's its not polite form in Japanese society) according to what Raito-kun wrote about him.
-And also Mitsuo Iso, while not a bad person, he seems to be too much of a perfectionist and caused him to fall out with an animator (was it Honda?)
-I've read that Obari tends to be bit arrogant and it's what caused many people to cut ties with him or stay very distant from him. I mean Yasushi Muraki, Hirotoshi Takaya and Nakazawa Kazuto among others used to be his under studies yet none of them've ever worked with him since the end of the 90s. (Maybe a similar thing to Kitakubo?)
bahi says that sunrise is also involved with Korra season 2 production
what is going on
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-16 12:20
>>469 Studio Sunrise will work on Korra soon, some Naruto animators will participate.
First Pierrot, and now Sunrise. If the rumours are true, this will be the first time there's Japanese animation for the Avatar series isn't it?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-16 12:58
Most animators, like almost every artist, are probably assholes and fucking hard to work under. I don't say this to be spiteful, it's just a natural consequence of animated productions that will always involve a lot of different voices and interpretations that ultimately will need to subjugate to the Director's one.
Probably the only really friendly place to work in is Kyoani, since most people there have known each other since the late 90s.
>>479
I always thought Ishidate did some key animation in the ad that he directed. Looks like there are some other Kyoani animators that follow in his footsteps with regards to animation style.
I'd say the two overall best CMs of those are the Kitanohara/Maruki one and the Ishihara/Horiguchi one, in that order.
I'd like to see some display like these by Nao Naitou, she's really good.
>>448 >>449
A higher budget for an episode does not necessarily have to correspondent to more drawings. Just as higher budget overall doesn't say much about the average amount of individual drawings for the show.
Gundam Seed's budget was high because it was a prime-time show, thus they had to pay more for the slot. Additionally there was of course a lot of money spent on marketing and stuff. That goes for most Sunrise shows though. If you look at those charts with the most expensive anime, you'll see that there are many Sunrise shows on them. Gundam is a given but there's also quite some stuff from late '90s and early '00s on them, back when Sunrise didn't yet convert to the late-night anime trend which was starting (with Seraphim Call being perhaps the only exception).
Episode directors, storyboarders and animation directors get a fixed payment, which very well varies on the standing of the persons hired. Cheap productions will often fill those positions with inexperienced people to decrease the pay and thus budget. Think Crescent Love where Tanaka Hironori and others were hired as ADs despite having barely any experience as animators at that time and none as AD, the result were some infamous episodes. On the other hand hiring a well-regarded director for a single episode will also go down into the budget.
There's more than that of course, like outsourcing to overseas companies (China, Korea, Vietnam) and paying less to those companies for the same amount of drawings and so on. Guest artists will increase the cost, so does hiring people for extra history/whatever research on an episode. In the end the overall budget doesn't say much about the show, aside of re-establishing the slot it was aired in. Just as episode budget differences don't necessarily mean a difference in quality or drawings count.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-16 18:22
>>486
Paying for time slots only applies to late night anime.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-16 19:20
>>479
I didn't expect Horiguchi of all people to be the character designer for the 5th CM. Also, not seeing Fumie Okano in the second one, did you get that wrong?
>>488 not seeing Fumie Okano in the second one, did you get that wrong?
I messed that up.
Thanks for pointing out.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-17 1:14
>>486
With budget I was referring to the animation budget, not overall. I see your point, but nevertheless a higher amount of drawings will correspond with more money put into them, in the usual system.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-18 7:29
Aside from Shingo Yamashita, are there any other animators that regularly use Flash?
Kyoni's animation quality is very poor relative to other studios (except SHAFT, SHAFT's is shit too).
in kyoni shows:
- clothing movement doesn't follow through on overlapping actions.
- virtually no secondary action or reduction in move ins or outs for background characters or objects
- character design noticeable changes during scenes, it's happened at least twice in tomako market. poor consistency.
- kyoni overly exaggerates motion and has harshly stylizes animation (as opposed to subtle changes in facial expressions or eye gaze) to express emotion. it's easy to draw jagged lines to show a character who is shocked, but that's very unprofessional.
it's pathetic to see a AAA studio dedicate so little money to animation.
KyoAni
>"the best studio"
>can't into hand-drawn mecha
Seriously though, I think they're overrated. Their character animation isn't as impressive as some of you say and their shows are overall pretty mediocre, with Hyouka being an exception. Just my opninion and I wonder why they're so popular...
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-19 14:17
>>506
Maybe they couldn't afford both a DSLR and a video camera so they had to settle with the video camera doing multiple tasks for them.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-19 14:27
>>507
Kyoani is overrated in this board.
And another animator i will not name .
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-19 14:29
>>507
KyoAni has done hand drawn mecha before though? And I don't especially care if you think their shows are mediocre, this is not the place to discuss that.
>>524
Maybe because this all started with a post claiming factually wrong things (>>499) and kept going with blatant trolling attempts that whoever was behind this even felt like reposting in /a/ (>>507). Want to have a civil debate? Sure. Throwing random oneliners and lies then expecting them to be respected because "it's their opinion"? Sorry but no, that defense only works between 10 years olds. Go look some math forums and tell them to respect your opinion that 2+2 equals five and see how that goes.
>>526
So you're only responsible for a post containing outright lies (you obviously know KyoAni's done 2D mecha) and absolutely unrelated comments with your overall opinion on their shows and how their popularity confuses you. Congratulations!
Again, this is an animation thread. Want to bash a studio for no reason or even post your sincere thoughts on them, do it elsewhere. Joining stupid troll attempts here isn't only pathetic but useless, don't you realize you're mildly upsetting 10 people at most? Sure you can find a better place to do this.
>>529
Seeing a direct comparison like that is great. I'm not a purist so I can accept CGi if used in the right way, but a wrong approach can make it look disgraceful.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-19 18:55
I've been watching Yu Yu Hakusho recently, and a couple of episodes have really stood out for me; 58 and 74. Everything about the animation and direction was just great.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-19 19:00
>>531
Both are Wakabayashi episodes, no wonder you liked them. He did some lovely work in the show.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-19 19:05
>>532
Does he go under a psuedonym, or has he just not done that much work?
I would be up for a discussion on Kyoani's acting animation, but nobody who actually dislikes it seems to be able to come up with a good argument. Oh well, that's a shame.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 3:21
Rather new to sakuga and everything related, but I'm learning new stuff every day and am really interested in all of this. So I'm another one, I guess!
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 3:44
Been visiting regularly since the fourth animation thread, that makes five of us now then.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 5:02
i'm one
so that makes 6 of us.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 5:07
Another one here.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 5:33
>>534
Last time we did a roll call, it was to do with age I think, we had around 10-15 people back then if I recall.
Any way, I'm another person, been here since the thread #1 post #1.
we had around 10-15 people back then if I recall.
Oops, just went and checked, Only 5 people answered.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 7:04
To be honest we all know who is posting on this thread because there's not a lot of sakuga-fan around here, sadly.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 7:42
Does someone have a list for upcoming anime film releases (on BD/DVD)?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 7:54
Another person here.
>>544
Off the top of my head I can tell you Eva Q 24/4, Nanoha A's 22/3, BLOOD-C 27/2, T&B 22/2 and Wolf Children... well, today. Do you want the potentially interesting ones from a sakuga standpoint or just movies in general?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 8:01
The ones worth looking out for in terms of animation should be Wolf Children, Eva 3.0, and Blood C(thought I doubt this can even come close to The Last Vampire).
About that, Gendy's new film (Transylvania something something) is animated in a manner that simulates the "choppy" traditional method of 2D animation. I think one anon posted a video about it a few posts ago or in a previous thread.
I'm also one. So that makes me the 10th? Wait, are we really just 10 people frequenting this thread and talking among ourselves?
I did watch Hotel Transylvania. There was more squash and stretch in the animation, and movement was less realistic compared to how things are animated in Pixar movies. Interestingly, as the credits rolled, there was a segment showing the characters in their hand-drawn form, which I presume are Gendy's designs.
If Gendy's approach to CGI animation was combined with Disney's Paperman tech CGI animation might be able to replicate the look of traditional animation better.
So lively. Nothing that outstanding but the quality is really high.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 10:58
I hope Kyoani delivered this episode, especially given this week's staff.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 11:00
Great visuals in this episode, storyboarding is borderline godlike. It's hard for something as subtle as that to be impressive but it's just damn great. Looking forward to 8-9 even more now, since those also had great line-ups.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 11:04
Tamako had good storyboarding, really consistent animation but I didn't notice any standout cuts, like >>551 said.
I still don't like Kazumi Ikeda that much. Next week though it's Takemoto/Chiyoko Ueno, now THAT will be awesome. And episode 9 is Kigami/Nao Naitou!
Those two should top this episode in terms of animation.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 11:26
>>554
Yeah, strictly talking about animation this wasn't the episode Tamako was supposed to shine at. It still had some of those lively character animation cuts the show is full of and it generally was well above average, but I couldn't spot any especially impressive scene in the stream.
Either way, I wasn't disappointed at all and the bar was fairly high. Can't wait for the next couple episodes.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 12:23
Ishidate, Kazumi Ikeda and Tatsuya Satou KA in the episode. When a proper raw is out I'll try to spot them.
>>556
Do you know of some shots animated by Tatsuya Satou? From whatever show.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 16:52
Another well done Tamako Market episode, looks like there was some background animation very briefly at the start of the episode.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 17:27
>>560
From Hyouka 7, most of the onsen scene and the ending, those I know for sure since he commented on them. I'm fairly sure he did some of the best cuts in Hyouka 21 like Chitanda freaking out but don't quote me on that, since it's not confirmed. You know KyoAni is a rare beast in that it's usually easier to tell apart an animation director than particular KA. Not having many idiosyncratic animators and not naming animators on their genga books sure doesn't help.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 18:01
>>562
Nice, thanks. Yeah, recognizing a sakkan's style in Kyoani is not hard, but for animators besides Kigami and the more flamboyant cuts by Ishidate or Kitanohara, I'm totally lost.
Case in point, for this Tamako episode I have no idea of what could've been Ishidate's cut. I'd guess that underwater part of one of the scenes where she was berating Dera, but I'm pretty much throwing it in the air more than anything else.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 18:44
Back during Clannad S2 and K-On S1 Ishidate's cuts were easier to spot weren't they?
>>566
It sure is pretty, but that blur and bloom is fucking ridiculous and it irks me. I don't reaaaally care about his CGi usage but holy crap, that's annoying me a great deal.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-20 23:52
>>566
It's, uh, very Shinkai for sure. Not really a good thing in my opinion.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 2:10
So Tamako#7 is Ishihara/Ishidate's episode with Hiroko Utsumi's storyboard?
This is weird.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 4:07
What? 2 EDs?
Scheduling problem?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 4:25
Wouldn't a scheduling issue normally mean multiple ADs?
The new Shinkai film looks damn good. Like it or not, you have to admit his films have very good art and colour direction, and most impressively pretty much the best CG in the anime industry. He just knows how to use it better than anyone else, even if he pioneered little, so to say. You can see from this interview (http://www.tested.com/news/442545-2d-animation-digital-era-interview-japanese-director-makoto-shinkai/) that he really understands the difference between good and bad CG and is not using it simply as a cost cutting method, like so many other directors and studios are doing. The rain in particular was very, very good, which I guess was to be expected since the film apparently has a lot to do with rain and rain scenes.
There were also a few good animation cuts in that trailer (like the drawing scenes, or the shoe making one, or the scene where the girl is throwing/swinging her shoe away). Might not end up being a sakuga fest, but it's nothing to scoff at.
I beg to differ. Here, the use of filters and postprocessing is not working against the content, unlike say, in ufotable or gohands' cases (especially gohands, with stuff like K and Mardo Scramble).
The scene where the girl throws herself on the bed is also good.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 6:11
>>574
I thought ufo's usage of post processing in their TM works was really nice. Having said that, I wonder why not many studios use digital effects like Iso or Yoshinari.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 6:23
>>567 It sure is pretty, but that blur and bloom is fucking ridiculous and it irks me
Ufotable, maybe, but I don't think KyoAni goes that overboard with the aftereffects. Only some of their CMs and those mech Chuunibyou specials go overboard with the filtering in some shots. But generally it's done well. In Hyouka it was alright for the most part, and then there's stuff like Nichijou which is very "raw" so to say. Blah blah.
I'd say Go-Hands is the worst culprit when it comes to filling the screen with rainbow colored puke.
Speaking of Arai, I think I've just figured out why I don't like his and other such "Kanada" style animation - purposefully, intentionally poor, or non-existent timing and overdone use of stills between movement. I much prefer Yoh Yoshinari's style of whacky animation that actually features movement, even if it's super-stylized, to a glorified presentation of stylistic non-movement.
Sue me...
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 8:38
Looks like Psycho-Pass 18 will be a QUALITY fest, according to Shiotani himself. And to think last week was bad enough...
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 8:43
>>588
That's understandable, Kanada-style animation is basically making the most out of few frames after all isn't it? It's bound to not "flow" as well as "fuller" animation. I myself prefer more realist animation.
>>590
Well I'd say that Kanada made limited movement such that it was still exciting to look at and you didn't spend too much time noticing the limited animation. Where as with Arai's timing, a bit more emphasis is made to look at key poses and make you notice them.
To >>588 watch some stuff that's actually by the really good Kanada-style animators, look up some of Kanada's own best works, Yamashita, Shinsaku Kozuma, Keisuke Watabe, Itsuki Imazaki, Hiroyuki Imaishi, Obari Masami and so on. When you realise how they can instil movement to drawings I think you'll take back calling "stylistic non-movement" about Kanada style and it's variations.
As far as the works of Kanada himself are concerned, since as I've said the style just doesn't click with me I wasn't too concerned to look up more stuff of his or like his. I liked Birth a lot however, but I think (and I may be very wrong) that the cuts in it I like the best are the ones that are the least "Kanada-style" in nature (yes, I know what "Birth" supposedly represents for Kanada-style animation and how stupid I'm probably going to sound for just having said that, but I'll take my chances).
I wonder though, if, like some of you mentioned, the absurdly limited animation in some cases isn't just a budget issue some people (like Arai) somehow took a liking to (all to my personal - and I'm sure others' too - displeasure). I mean you mentioned Imaishi, and some others (I didn't know Hiroyuki Yamashita was a kanada animator, doesn't seem like one to me at least - or are you talking about another Yamashita? I'm suffering from a mind lapse at the moment) and that (the still shot inserts and posing) doesn't always feature that much - from what I've seen- (although it's there to scrub my eyeballs occasionally) so there's that to concede as well I guess.
But, I notice that in a lot of the, imo, good Kanada-style cuts (let me think of an example - take the dragon, since it's perfect and perfectly cliche to bring up, and I mean the original one in Genma Taisen) it's just a matter of creating choppy, straight movements (but movements) and using a blocky, simplified style in the drawings. Or in short, it's more a matter of ignoring and abstracting detail in every frame, than ignoring and subtracting frames and movement in the animation. When this removal and simplification spills over into the frame-to-frame, movement side, I think _this_ is when Kanada-style animation is doing something... wrong. Wrong may be the wrong word here, I'm not trying to convince anyone that "Kanada style a shit" or anything, I'm just regurgitating my thoughts on this. Sorry...
So...You know, if I wanted to see a series of still shots on my TV/computer/whatever, I'd just read a manga/comic .zip or something, right? That stuff should stay on paper and magazines. It's called animation for a reason (of course, I'm crossing a line and I'm leaning in the wrong a bit - but only to get my point across).
Excuse my meanderings, by the way.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 10:40
>>595
Yamashita as in Masahito Yamashita. Jun Arai's animation is kinda similar to his.
The character movement/fight acting is alright for the most part. The cuts kinda lack impact in certain areas.
For example, there's little "play" with the "camera". I mean, there's these guys punching at each other and generally the whole cut is drawn from a standing perspective (there were a couple or so exceptions, so not always). Animation is not live action - you have completely free (well, not completely, but certainly the degrees of freedom are higher than with live action footage) reign with the movement of every element that visually creates the scene, right? Why not use that? This is as much an issue of storyboarding and choreography as it is an issue of the animation, admittedly.
And there's also the effects and impact animations. Like the dust on the floor, or chops of wood from the boxes falling appart and so. It's like everyone and everything is made from the same material. The blond chick throws the guy over the box and the box just gets squashed under. Is that really how wood "behaves"? I'm inclined to say not. In general, the impacts are very inelastic and stiff, even when they shouldn't be. There's a push but no bounce - think of the classic falling ball example. It's not just landing on the floor flat. It bounces, stretches etc. By comparison, in (too) many of the cuts in that clip (but not all, and those where this doesn't happen look significantly better) the bodies for example, just fall flat or slide over the floor when hit. That's not only improper movement (even if they were dead and couldn't react to the fall by jerking and stuff) but it also looks boring. what are these people? Ragdolls made of sticky plaster that hugs the floor as soon as they touch?
Compare with this cut 40 seconds in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jvxnW4iPZc&t=40s when the guy rolls around and bounces after being hit. This looks good. The movement has momentum You can "see" it. The landing has weight. In many of the other cuts things are not like this, especially with some of the punch throwing in that scene with the blonde chick in the hangar and whatnot (this fight in the cage as .a whole was better than that, precisely for these two reasons - more camera play, and proper portrayal of movement and impact).
And another part here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jvxnW4iPZc&t=28s until 30s, as contrast. The guy just falls flat like a straight plank and gets glued to the floor. That looks like crap honestly.
Kinda sorta better than Arai but honestly, I don't like it. Some deal to less degrees (too much "pausing") and also a lot of short (few frames) cycles with the flame effects and the like. Looks like strobe-lighted action, something like that. It won't give anyone any seizures but I guess this is an acquired taste.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 11:21
If you want some cheap laughs, this P-P episode is legendary. All the characters are off-model for no good reason in about every scene, no wonder Shiotani had to say sorry for this.
I'm looking at Psycho-Pass staff lists. Like every episode has 2-5 animation directors and a chief animation director. Many episodes also have assistant animation directors on top of this. 2nd KA outsourced to almost 40 companies.
The production also involves a live action director who did some famous cop show/film series and Urobuchi. Were they rushing this hoping that riding the Madoka hype train + some mainstream face would guarantee them a hit?
>>605
Mouth animations were also kinda off and once again there were some changes to the OP. It must really suck to be an AD working on Psycho-Pass.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 18:00
and once again there were some changes to the OP.
Jesus, what the fuck are they doing?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 18:26
2 assistant directors and 7 assistant animation directors for this week's Psycho-Pass
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-21 18:37
Speaking of rushed animation, who is typically in charge of overseeing the animation schedule and ensuring that deadlines are met? The animation director?
Like some people have said, Kanada originally invented his style to get the most out of every frame. I don't mind the deformation much but if the character is supposed to be moving, holding a pose for too long can make it look awkward. I'm also not really sure if Kanada style can be called limited animation. Even if the original intent was to save on drawings, the entire character still has to be redrawn.
Some of my favorite Kanada inspired works. If you haven't seen it yet you should check out Dead Leaves.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-22 0:09
The appealing thing about good Kanada-style animation is that it disregards (to varying degrees) natural movement and physics in favour of poses that are interesting even if they're a single frame that appears for a split second.
It doesn't just exaggerate real life movement, it gives zero fucks for it or its rules. That FLCL video is a good example although not one of my favourites.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-22 5:13
>Just wow. This should be up there with the legendary ep 4 of Gurren Lagann.
>Oh, dear lol Makes ep 4 of TTGL look like Redline.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-22 5:43
>>616
I saw those comments too, unbelievable that people would compare Psycho-Pass's blunder with TTGL #4. The former is just plain shit, while the latter was an intentional change in art style.
They're a bunch of "casuals", of course they'd compare it to that, it's the only point of reference they have. Just like it happened with SSY5/10 etc.
On an unrelated note, any animators with a leg fetish? I'm looking for some nice leg scenes, and to my dispair, most of the ecchi and perc stuff I'm stumbling over focuses on tits or ass.
Thanks, but I know of those. And they're feet not legs, sadly. And mostly pans not animation... I guess I'm complaining that there's no equivalent to bouncing boobs for legs. Not even in ecchi shows. Think K-ON and Lucky Star (the scenes where they only show the legs when the girls walk or dance). That's the kind of thing I'm looking for, haha.
I actually like idol stuff, but I couldn't make it past episode 6. As a whole the show is mediocre to bad (problem is the writing, not direction or animation). Better than akb0048 though.
I'll just watch the good cuts online or something.
Looking forward to the idolm@ster film, and more series like it (although, if I think of CG routines in these anime as MMD-like stuff and whatnot, they're not too bad).
didn't see anything exceptional in the wiki. Nobutoshi Ogura for storyboards and Takuro Shinbo as supervising animator. Kouto Okuno as episode director. That's it, nobody bothered to add the key animators so I guess nobody noteworthy
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-22 20:34
>>618 >>621
Oh, nice to see someone thinking alike. Animated scenes focusing on feet/legs is something I'd like to see more often as well. But at best it's just stills that serve as gimmick in scenes where the current happening is to be obstructed to the viewer.
We are working on a new project "Lexus Present Lexus Short Film Series" with Ms.Miyazaki Director. it will mix live action with Animation. scheduled to be completed in April.Please Look forward to it!
『Lexus Short Film Series』のプレスリリースがハリウッドで行われました。森本晃司もこのショートフィルムプロジェクトに参加します。宮崎光代監督と一緒に実写＆Animationの短編映画となります。完成予定は4月です。
>>656
There's so many things in that thread I disagree with, but the posters weren't being faggots about it. Why don't we have more actual discussions like those in this thread? It's a textboard, let's make good use of the text.
Also there was one anon who didn't know about our migration to /carcom/. I knew it!
>>657
Generally because that thread probably has 50-70 people posting in it, we only have about 10 people here and that thread has a subject to discuss about - the gif in the OP. We are more of a general umbrella kind of thread. The last "topic" the this thread had was the talk about the Kanada style, but I think only 2 people were really talking about it and that kinda fizzled away.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-25 10:50
>>655
I agree. There were some other scenes where I went "this is CG" but I decided to just not focus on it. But I'm not allergic to CG.
I see that the storyboard book is out of print. Anyone know if there's a chance that it will come back? I kinda want now after watching the film.
From what I've observed, you need controversy and disagreement to start a discussion. That's how the short Kanada-style talk started, the poster claimed that they do not like Kanada-style animation much and tried to explain why...
So I think the lesson here is - ramp up the polite bashing.
>>656
Since that's posted here I might as well ask, is the animation that the OP posted rotoscoped?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-25 11:45
>>664
Dunno, but it's not that hard to animate a scene like that even without a reference video.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-25 12:10
Speaking of Sasami-san, Zoku Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei 1 was excellent. Perfect mix of cleverly composed cuts with no animation as well as plenty of sakuga moments that fit in well.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-25 12:20
>>658
The bashing of web-kei for example, although it was mostly answered to in the thread.
I also disagree that Kou Yoshinari's cut for Nanoha was only a problem of the designs. The cut flows more or less well at first, but near the end (and especially when the dad gives the "ok") the acting is just strange. Nobody would react like that, with so much blinking and moving around even after she has already recited her lines.
I find some other things a bit strange like how the brother moves, but that's not that much of an issue. Kou has improved a lot though, his Dog Days cuts are infinitely better than that Nanoha one.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-25 13:04
While I like the works of the web generation animators, there's something about their effects animations that I find lacking. They tend to look kinda flat and like an evolution of the unrefined .gif animations made by aspiring animators.
>>667
I wouldn't regard Aninari's Dog Days cuts as the best things he's done by any stretch, but either way the infamous Nanoha cut feels intentionally over-exaggerated. Like he went for maximum fluidity (for no reason, I'm not to defend the choice even if it amuses me) and disregarded all logic there.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-25 16:52
>>670
Aninari is very talented, I mean he's been working on anime since the early 90s. The Nanoha cut is from 2004 and a good time into his career. The thing with the Nanoha cut is that for most of it, it's alright, it's just that final nod and triple wink scene that it goes a bit weird.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-25 17:09
Speaking of Aninari, when did he start using digital effects in his animation?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-25 17:34
>>670
Of course Dog Days' isn't his best by any means, I just brought it up because it has a somewhat similar design approach to Nanoha. Diebuster has a point that his style is not suited to these types of designs.
>>677
That crowd scene at around 2 minutes in must've been rather tedious to animate.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-25 22:44
>>677
Inoue always gets chosen to work on scenes with complex CG.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-26 2:29
>>671
Not to mention that he did exactly the same things earlier in games already, think of Sasami. Also, this is one of the most lovable cuts I've ever seen, usually dinner table scenes involve cardboard cutouts and changing mouths only, which is very jarring to watch.
Just saw Wolf Children. Besides Eva 3.0 overall, this is the 2012 film I liked best, and in terms of animation etc. it easily takes the top cake imo. Maybe the character animation is not on the same level as Momo e no Tegami, but the storyboarding and directing more than make up for it. Okiura is I think, first and foremost an animator. You can tell the difference in the focus on certain technical aspects. Hosoda is first and foremost a director and storyteller. The stuff we see better supports the content of the film.
One thing that struck me is that there are a lot of montages in Wolf Children. A lot. And they really make you realise how film itself, the images themselves can be used to tell a story. The story follows a relatively long narrative of more than a decade. One method would've been to simply use timeskips. But the montages work so much better as a means to transition from one period of time to the other. They're not just some gateway from time A to time B. They also show the develoopment in the story, and in the characters.
Also the storyboarding was fantastic. One non-spoilerfic example (although there are at least 3 scenes that go above and beyond with this kind of subtle visual storytelling) is when Ame visits a wolf at the local zoo/center with his mother, because they were eager to learn more about being a wolf, how they mature and so on and so forth, and every scene that takes place here shows the bars of the cage. That's a tiny visual cue that shows and tells so much. Whenever they are in that room, it's always a back-front or front-back view separated (usually) in the middle by the cage-bars. Even when the "camera" focuses on the wolf or one of the characters up close, it's still through the bars, always. Very simple but very effective layout.
The film also uses CG very well, and it is perhaps the first one where character CG (for the crowds) wasn't all too jarring (more recently there were CG crowds in the Blood-C film as well for example, and those stand out pretty badly imo). There are scenes where you notice but also scenes where it strucks you after the fact. There is this scene where the kids all rush out of the classrooms for example, and at first I didn't realise it was CG. If they do it more like Hosoda does it, I would not mind seeing this kind of shortcutting and costcutting more often, even though I will always prefer traditional animation. Again speaking of CG, backgrounds this time, the scene where the 3 run through the forest in the snow was pretty impressive, and I kinda think that it wouldn't have looked as good with traditional background animation.
As for interesting animation cuts, besides the ones that were previously mentioned, the film is generally full of them. I remained with the scenes where Ame and Yuki run around, and when they fight in various instances. Again, not just because they were very nicely animated, but also because they follow a very clear pattern which serves the narrative in its entirety.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-26 9:05
>>683
Now I'm looking forward to it even more, that sounds like a very positive appraisal of the film.
How does the directing and animation compare with The Girl Who Leapt Through Time?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-26 9:17
The fuck, sakuga@wiki's now all pink and shit
Something looks missing as well
Can't really properly compare the two in more detail since Ookami Kodomo is pretty clear in my head right now while it's been a couple of years since I last rewatched tokikake but I think this film is better, if only by a little. I think The Girl... had a couple or so scenes which were more "spectacular" so to say, because the story allowed for it. In general this film was more Slice-of-life-y.
Oh, one interesting thing I noticed, as a parallel between the two if you like, was the scene where the children's father/Hana's lover then, was running to meet her and the layout and animation kinda reminded me of the Tokikake scene where Makoto runs for a long while. I don't know if it's an intentional "reference" or just similar because the director likes doing this kind of "action" (although I don't remember other Hosoda films besides this and Girl who leapt through time that feature one like this) but it sort of struck me as one. Kinda like, "ah yeah, there was something like this in girl who leapt through time too, right?".
And speaking of slice-of-life type of approach in the film, there is a montage with "daily life" early on in the film that was very nice. Sort of in the style of Hitchcock's "Rear Window" if you've seen it, where we're just shown what characters/various neighborhood families are doing in their apartments etc with the "camera" placed far away, so that you can see the building mostly, and the characters through the windows, on balconies etc. It was very cool, showing us the community of which the main characters are part of doing mundane, day-to-day things in an interesting fashion.
Anyway. There are a lot of great scenes in the film, I don't want to spoil it for anyone. Haha.
I just got used to using the site and now I can't tell who works on an episode anymore now that the sidebar is gone
goddammit
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-26 13:59
Am I right in saying anything cel animation can do, digital can as well and sometimes even better?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-26 14:12
>>691
In principle yes, but there are always differences between hand-painted and filmed cels and digital productions.
Whether you prefer analog or digital is purely subjective of course.
Depends what you mean. 3D digital animation can't do everything better than cel animation. But traditional 2D animation done using digital tools can do everything better than traditional animation doen on cel. It removes all the limitations and imposes no restrictions (although in practice it does impose one restriction - the resolution of the image).
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-26 14:35
>>692
So modern anime lacking multi-tone shading and "warmer" colors(as nostalgiafags like to point out) is not due to any limitations of digital animation, but rather a shift in aesthetic preferences among animators?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-26 14:37
>>693
Yes, I was referring to digital hand-drawn animation. How does it limit the image resolution anyway?
Exactly. You can actually draw with even more shades now because you have a much, much wider choice of colours to use.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-26 14:42
>>694
The grey-out/washed out look of animation these days is done on purpose and that really ticks me off. I remember watching a behind-the-scenes for the new HxH anime and they actively apply a washout filter to get rid of color satuaration.
Simply because in practice the animated footage is done at a certain resolution (decided upon in the composition/photography stage). You could theoretically use vector graphics and other tricks that allow for theoretically infinitely large resolution (not quite, but in a certain sense that you can zoom indefinitely) but that is far from being practical. Cel animation also has this limitation but in a different manner - the film/cel can only hold so much detail. The advantage of course is that the theoretical resolution of cels is much higher than the current standard. Still, scan at higher and higher resolutions and you eventually reach a point where no more detail is added simply because the paint itself is smudged and whatnot that close up.
>>699
I like the effects but the whole scene just looks off. And there's no chance to fix it for the BDs... because it's exclusive to the BDs. But hey, compared to how the show usually is like, this is a goddamn luxury.
>>683
This more or less mirrors my impression except the montages. I thought that if the film had been longer with those scenes played out as regular scenes it would have been stronger. That would have been more expensive and taken more time to produce and probably put of a some of the audience it aims for so I understand why montages were used instead but they don't feel ideal. I'm mainly thinking of the parts with the father. The similar but not really montage scene with the kids growing up in the classroom was good though.
I see where you're coming from but at the same time I wonder if this approach was used because we as viewers should have a similar vantage with the two kids, since the story mostly revolves around them growing up, and how each deal with the absence of a father/wolf figure in their lives. It feels deliberate. And like you said, it's a compromise; personal preferences aside (I too wouldn't have minded at all if the film were longer) I'd say they nailed the balance. And it was cool because the editing format allowed for some pretty nice stuff that you woulnd't have had otherwise, because they just don't work in longer cuts. Some of those montages felt like some sort of equivalent to a musical moment in Disney films, and I think they took some artistic licence during them, for example the scene where they slide down the hill in the snow. Can you really do that in real life? I don't know, but it looked really great.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-27 8:20
>>707
What animator wants to draw loads of balls rolling about?
@Thomasintokyo - ThomasRomain ロマン・トマ
Coming back from a party with Bones staff. We were celebrating the production start of the next project. It has big names associate to it!
>>708
The snow sliding was probably my favorite moment in the film. And I agree it didn't feel realistic but rather aimed at creating a feeling instead and it works very well.
But I can't agree that it tied to show us the father from the children's perspective. Hana is just as much a main character and we see them together too much for that to be deliberate. It was just a way to move the story forward.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-27 10:58
Anyone seen the Blood-C movie?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-27 10:59
Takemoto delivered, great episode of Tamako Market. If you thought last week's had good storyboarding check this, really crazy stuff.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-27 11:01
Tamako had, unsurprisingly, yet another very solid episode.
No particular cut I noticed, but the animation was a bit warmer than last ep, I attribute it to Ueno's involvement. I liked the part when they were walking to school and when they went shopping.
Some really nice gags stemming from the direction, and some damned awesome backgrounds. Based Takemoto.
Ep 9 preview featured interesting cuts with Anko and Mochizou, it's Kigami and Nao Naitou so the animation in that will most surely not disappoint.
What I particularly liked was that there were very subtle and small shots of the "rest of the world" besides the cast, like the track team passing and shouting on the background, the shot of the mass of students (that moved pretty much, didn't manage to see if it was also interesting), and the little interludes focusing on such things.
That's one thing I adored on Hyouka, and it's nice to see the guy bring some of it to TM.
Well, all I can say is that I personally didn't mind it at all.
I liked the way Hosoda decided to go with things. Could have been better, but that's alwys the case.
Didn't notice any particularly interesting cut, but Takemoto did a good job as expected. Some rather well-executed gags and I noticed KyoAni made good use of CGI crowds this time. It certainly made the settings more lively.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-27 16:58
>>751
Looking back, I still like Kawanami's episode the best but perhaps part of that was due to the script as well.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-27 17:28
Blood-C: The Last Dark
Animation Director: Kazuchika Kise, Miyuki Nakamura, Takahiro Chiba, Takahiro Kagami, Tooru Okubo
well...not really. It has some interesting art direction at times but it's not really consistent. Animation quality is pretty low, the direction...I mean I don't think it's good but people tell me it mirrors the ridiculous over-the-top nature of manga so I dunno. The show looks ugly and isn't really exciting to watch. Some episodes are kinda neat though, the most recent episode was almost good
>>758
As in, direction overall or just the visuals? The former's excellent, the latter... could be better. Jojo is for the most part a very cheap show, abysmal animation-wise and sometimes with awful storyboarding that makes the fights annoying to watch due to how unique Araki's action is. They try to make up for it with creative visuals but it doesn't always work, though I must say the latest episode (which is one of the high points of Jojo) was excellent in about every aspect. Hopefully Part 3 will have much better production values.
>>761
I would highly doubt that. Fuck how can such a popular and big name manga like JoJo get such a low budget. The show is already good now with the shitty animation and inconsistencies. Just imagine how great JoJo would be if it had a good budget.
>>763
Because Japan. At the end of the day, the anime is just a vehicle to sell more manga and more JoJo merchandise. They don't need to put much effort into the anime because simply by virtue of airing it will increase sales in other areas. The DVD sales are just a tiny bonus compared to what the other merch will bring.
>>763
Because it was kind of a bet and no one knew if a latenight adaptation of Jojo would turn out well. Which it has. So yeah, whenever they get to adaptating more of it it's likely that it'll have much better production values.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 13:31
Look forward to today's Vividbutts because it has some insane cuts. Hamaguchi, Hisashi Mori, Kouno-chan and Isao Hayashi KA.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 13:47
>>772
Did Mori draw anything crazy-looking like what he did in Zetman?
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 14:02
Today's Vividbutts wasn't that good I think. Few seconds of good animation, CGI circus and one nice explosion by Mori. That's all.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 14:28
>>774
You're killing me here man, are you saying that lineup put out a mediocre job?
I was getting hyped for the episode and all...
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 14:40
>>775
The cuts are very good, but there's just about 5 minutes of action. Everything else is just alright, above average production values like the rest of the show.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 14:53
So if everything is above average, and 5 minutes are absolutely wonderful, I don't think "wasn't that good" quite describes it.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 15:03
>>777
Maybe he didn't like the action that much, and the show having good production values is nothing new so you kind take it for granted. I liked it a lot myself but you know how subjective these things are.
I can't really believe that I'm going to say what I'm going to say next, but I want old SHAFT back. I want crazy storyboards, super cool layouts, and brilliant use of limited animation, with sparse but effective sakuga scenes. If Shinbo putting more animation in his anime means it will look just like any other "well" animated series around, than no thanks.
As far as action scenes go, there's nothing more bland and repetitive than the circus. Sasami already got a shitty one early on. Or more.
>>789
Oh no, better stop calling excellent effect animation and cool motion "sakuga" because some random person on the internet doesn't think it deserves it.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 17:48
>>791
Madoka had this Shinsaku Sasaki guy doing some episodes, from those and his track record he seems to be really good. And an episode by Tomohiko Ito.
I think it was a better production than what SHAFT normally puts out.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 18:17
>>779
That yellow is Kouno and the explosions is Hisashi?
http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/80896747/#80898753 Ben-To's fights were pretty good, better than 90% other shows. It's not the best, sure, but it's damn good. The lack of frames(or lack of animation) was saved thanks to the choreography.
Really?
I find this hard to believe.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 20:12
>>801
The ones he mentioned he was directing/doing chara design for. He said at least one was a TV show IIRC, no idea about the format of the other, but we didn't get any dates. This goes way back to Spring 2012 or so, people were speculating that what ended up being Vividred was the Umetsu project back when they were dropping hints.
Name:
Anonymous2013-02-28 21:57
Does anyone have any clue who 池屋守 is? She's the character designer for the Lucky Star spinoff Yamakan's going to direct at Ordet, but I can't find anything on her. Maybe a nickname?
Did you watch the show? Anyway, the OP and episode 4 had the best cuts and the second half is generally weaker. I wouldn't say it lacked animation, but the fights seemed better than they were since they involved people beating the crap out of each other with their fists. Some of the stuff from Cowboy Bebop and the fist fight in Lagann-hen come to mind.
Nice effects in Tanaka's Sasami cuts. Not sure what was up with parts of the circus looking like this though.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-01 8:21
>>787
That's actually an Oonuma thing, Silver Link shows like BakaTest and C3 were pretty much a copy of EF. On the other hand all these things that were featured in EF or Arashi are pretty much passé in current Shaft shows for better or worse.
"Tsukumo"
Screenplay, Director: Shuhei Morita (Kakurenbo, Freedom)
Original Story Concept, Conceptual Design: Keisuke Kishi
"Gambo"
Director: Hiroaki Ando (Five Numbers!)
Original Story Concept, Screenplay, Creative Director: Katsuhito Ishii (Redline, Funky Forest: The First Contact, Taste of Tea)
Character Design: Yoshiyuki Sadamoto (Evangelion, .hack, Summer Wars)
"Buki yo Saraba"
Original Story: Katsuhiro Otomo
Screenplay, Director: Hajime Katoki (mechanical designs in Gundam franchise, Super Robot Wars)
Character Design: Tatsuyuki Tanaka (Tojin Kit)
In addition, Koji Morimoto (The Animatrix's Beyond, Noiseman Sound Insect, Genius Party's Dimension Bomb) contributed the film's opening animation.
Finally, Morimoto working again
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-01 12:28
Looks like 2 of the shorts will feature lots of CGI, but it looks not bad. I probably should get around to watching Memories.
Personally, I'd actually prefer another Fumoffu as opposed to continuing the story line. Fumoffu looks better than half of what's currently airing, so it should be interesting to see what KyoAni can pull given the resources they have today.
wait how do we know the name of Watanabe's Bones project? Where did Space Dandy come from?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-01 16:02
>>822
They're now animating on-going anime, Zetsuen no Tempest. Show with solid production values, but it's not sakuga material. Looks like their main force is indeed working on Watanabe's Space Dandy.
>>824
No, not the SD movie. A standalone feature film. Maybe I'm misremembering and it wasn't BONES, but I think the main character was a little/young girl, it was set in some past period of Japan, and the name was just one word.
Maybe it's already out, just not on BD, but I remember seeing a PV for it. I'm intrigued now, does anyone have a clue what I'm talking about?
majocco.jp/ so ufo's Majocco is directed by Takayuki Hirao helped by Takuro Takahashi & Yuka Shibata (Kimi ni Todoke) as designer
mite b cool
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-01 16:37
>>827 http://fuse-anime.com/
Do you mean this? It's directed by Masayuki Miyajii, who previously directed Xam'd at Bones. Most of the main staff are also Xam'd people, like Seiichi Hashimoto (chara design) and Ayumi Kurashima (animation director).
Enshutsu is supposed to be the episode director, right? This article refers to that as animation director though.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-01 19:16
>>833
I've never seen someone call the enshutsu "animation director", but "animation supervisor" is actually a much more intuitive translation for Sakuga Kantoku than what we normally use.
>>832
These don't get physical release (at least no by normal means, I've seen the DVDs on yahoo auctions) so you'll have to wait for the TV broadcasting.
>>839
Unit Director is one possibility.
Technical Director is also another.
"Animation Director" might work, but the enshutsu also tends to supervise scripts, storyboards, editing, and sound recording(besides the actual animation as well). Would these all encompass under the "Animation" label? Maybe, depending on your angle.
As for Sakuga Kantoku, this tends to be translated as Animation Director, which is passable. But it implies they have the ability to direct the animation, when their main job is to supervise the animation. They are the ones who decide layouts, deal with the Key Animators, sending cuts back and forth to be fixed and they often also end up becoming the KA checker and KA fixer.
In a sense, the enshutsu is more the person who DIRECTS the entire animation process so "Animation Director" from that angle makes sense. While the sakuga kantoku supervises the animation, so "Animation Supervisor" or "Key Animation Supervisor" might make more sense, since inbetween animators have their own checkers.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-02 7:44
It's just an oav Little withc academia or it's a pilot for a full series ?
Those 17000 are for the 30 minutes only ? or for the eventual future series ?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-02 8:06
>>850
It's a one shot project part of "Anime Mirai" which is a project lead my Animators Union in Japan that funds 3-4 animation projects each year to train animators in Japan. It used to be called "Young Animator Training Project" in the past.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-02 8:07
By the way, should we move back to /anime/ for the next thread?
Spammer is no longer there, but he hit 2 threads randomly last week.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-02 8:57
We can try.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-02 9:00
>>852
To be honest I don't mind staying here, it's been pretty much spam-free here unlike /anime/ which still has the occasional bot/spammer posting random stuff.
>>856
The character designs throw me off, yeah. Not because they're a bunch of lolis, I don't really care about that, I just don't like the artstyle at all. That aside, the PV has some neat visuals and if Aniplex decides to push the project hard it should have great production values.
>>868
QUALITY threads are really awful, it's sad seeing people bash Sadamoto's designs for Wolf Children because they "don't look nearly as good as the poster". God.
Speaking of Wolf Children, I just watched it and the amount of Inoue animation was really something. Maybe he's going to stick with Hosoda like this for new projects?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-02 15:38
Toshiyuki Inoue's cut in Ookami Kodomo was amazing, loved his effects animation. Character animation was good all round, that's to be expected of a Hosoda movie anyway. I noticed that this film had more usage of CGI than Hosoda's previous films, but I think it was used rather well for most of the part.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-02 15:39
The tracking shot in the snow couldn't possibly be pulled off without a good use of CG. That whole scene was one of the best in the movie for me, if not the best.
If only more directors picked up on smart use of CG like this...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-02 15:40
>>869
What other parts did Inoue animate besides the "skiing" scene? There were a number of parts with nice character animation, but I couldn't tell if it was Inoue's.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-02 15:47
>>869 people bash Sadamoto's designs for Wolf Children because they "don't look nearly as good as the poster".
Didn't the poster have the exact same character design as the anime?
>>872
IIRC the bit where Ame and Yuki fight at the dinner table as teens and then turn into full on wolves, much of that fight was Inoue.
Then the bit at the end where Ame sees his mother and runs off.
Plus the snow and river bits already mentioned.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 7:16
There's quite a few scenes detailed on the sakuga wiki, on who did what.
How did you find that one out? I can't seem to find it.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 13:37
Tanaka's cut in Sasami #8 was fantastic, it's been a while since he did a really good cut
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 13:45
>>883
The order of the uploaded pictures doesn't always match book order so it can be hard to find but it's there somewhere.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 14:47
The Blood-C movie had some nice action cuts and character animation, but I found it to be inferior to The Last Vampire overall. Vehicle CGI was pretty good with the photorealistic lighting and modelling was generally good. However, that CGI monster at the finale came across as being out-of-place and pointless. It would've been cheaper to have it hand-drawn, no? I think the end result would've looked better as well.
>>893
You mean the ghosting effect?
It's to do with when the person who records the RAWs does not have equipment fast enough (or set up properly) to capture all the frames, so the frames end of blending into one another. You end up having to wait for the DVD/BD for a better encode.
Eh? What? That's just cost cutting. They didn't have inbetweens drawn for that part so they blur the frame into one another. Broadcast is done at constant framerate. Nothing to do with that. They're fixed in the disc release IF they bother to pay for inbetweens.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 17:57
>>896
So much bullshit in one post. You're teling me that Naotoshi Shida's works are badly inbetweened?
Yes.
Because that doesn't depend on him, sadly. If the rest of the cuts have no ghosting then the recording was done just fine, which is what you'd expect since the broadcast framerate (entirely different from animation framerate) is constant. Plenty of shows have this "effect" that isn't an effect at all, because budget.
Go read a bit about broadcasts and recording stuff. That should clear things up.
The fact that some shows have this ghosting "effect" even in the disc release (see Penguidrum for example) should put you on the right track to figuring that out too.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 18:14
You see I'm properly confused now. I thought it was an encoding issue. Star Driver's last episode suffered from this, esp in Muraki's circus scenes. I thought it was just due to encoding and that having a direct source with the DVD/BD meant we could get the scene w/o blur/ghosting.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 18:19
Nothing to do with encoding. This will happen in fast scenes (like a circus) more often purely because they require more inbetweens. If they wouldn't blur the animation frames together it would look like very choppy shit. The broadcast is always done at 24p 23.something or whatever, depending on the channel/set/etc. no matter how slow or fast is the animation. Issues can arise due to encoding, but they look different. And usually much worse.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 18:21
And you'll see it less often (but still see it at times) in BD releases simply because by then they could have the extra inbetweens drawn.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 19:34
I can't seem to agree with this lack of inbetweens idea.
I've got the Star Driver finale here, both TV airing by [gg] and the BD rip. I'm going through scenes in [gg] ver where there is ghosting and going through it frame by frame comparing it to the BD rip, I find that there are exactly the same frames in each(I can spot no lack of inbetweens), only that the remains of a previous frame will stay behind and imprint itself onto the next frame.
Eg take one of Arasan's cuts
First 3 are TV, next are the same 3 frames but from BD: http://imgur.com/a/daaa8
Okay, maybe bad example, lets look at something with more inbetweens like the 3rd and final Muraki circus: http://imgur.com/a/2vx0b
8 frames this time, both exactly the same, only one has a bleed through effect where the previous frame(s) get imprinted and/or remain on the screen as a "ghost"
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 21:05
Ghost frames can happen from the framrate conversion process.
But in this case, I think they intentionally added the ghost frames.
>>895 It's to do with when the person who records the RAWs does not have equipment fast enough (or set up properly) to capture all the frames
Everyone is using digital recorders by now.
They pretty much have the exact copy of data as what the station broadcasted.
yeah I've never heard of ghosting being the result of missing inbetweens. Check out Kameda's cuts from Brotherhood, all of them suffer from ghosting in the TV broadcast but there are no missing frames of animation between that and BD version
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-03 21:41
The Coalgirls BD encode I have of Star Driver 25 lacked that effect. Muraki's circus in the AO finale had this too.
I'm pretty sure Muraki circuses and Naotoshi Shida's long cuts are mostly done on 1s anyway, they don't lack in-betweens. Tanaka's circus looked much jerkier.
I can't be the only one who remembers FMA Brotherhood staff (I belive it was director Irie) tweeting that Kameda's scenes got ruined in TV broadcast, right?
Lucky Star has a lot of corner cutting, which you might or might not mind.
Personally, I couldn't stand the stick figure background characters, for example.
It had as much animation as typical Lucky Star episode if not more.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-04 22:51
Anyone know why Hosada decide to go with CG animation for the crowds in Ookami Kodomo. It's not like this is the first time there's been a large crowd in one his movies (Tokikake, Summer Wars). Did he mention anything in one of his interviews or something?
Ryuji Shiromae worked often with Tsutomu Suzuki(another Obari style artist?) and Yoshinobu Ando - the last two had a big role on Zetman - where Hirotoshi Takaya was also quite active.
>>934
I've heard of Oshiro through his involvement in Naruto. He seems to be the animator of choice whenever an interesting cut is needed on the lower-budget episodes. His timing seems Kanada-like.
Not sure if this was posted but various drawings of Dragonar mecha by 80s and 90s artists and animators including Anno, Sadamoto also Ryuji Shiromae (whose drawing is very Bari) Matsuo Shin, Hiroaki Gohda and many others http://imgur.com/a/Yf92k#r3wmJ5r
>>937
Nice but that weird pupil size change thing is odd
Reminds me of Kou Yoshinari's Nanoha animation
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-05 15:24
Don't know if this was brought up at the appropriate time, but Chihayafuru2 ep. 1 was very, very good. Both storyboarding/layouts as well as animation. A couple of cool scenes were the one at the beginning where Chihaya was playing Taichi, and when she rushes to the door to greet the potential new member. Very realistic and smooth movement. Don't ask me who animated though, I suck at recognizing all but a few people's work. Will post the KA list if anyone is interested...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-05 15:28
>>939
Been curious about this show. Seems Madhouse are pouring their love into it. They were posting storyboards and other info online for the first series, I'm not sure if they are still doing it.
I don't know if you'd like the content per se, but what is there is done very well. The first episode of season 2 was very Dezaki-like, from those more obvious very detailed still shots to the framing of the cuts and so on. The coulour direction could've been better (grayish colours/filters over everything, ruins the image in some cases) but in general the first series (and apparently the second one as well, so far) holds up very well. The production values are not stellar (there are still noticeable amounts of off-model cuts and such) but it kinda compensates for that with clever directing.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-05 16:56
Hey guys, when will we be able to watch Little Witch Academia? Which fansub is gonna do it?
I know you guys most probably have seen this Bebop/Naruto .gif many times before, but can someone explain what exactly happened here? I keep reading so many stories as to why they look the same, but I figured it's best to clear this up here. If I'm not mistaken, the top is Yutapon's animation, but who did the one at the bottom?
>>945
I believe the top is based off some kind of martial artist film.
I remember trying to look up this exact issue and the only thing I found was Yutapon was intructed to emulate Jeet Kune Do for Spike's martial arts. I can imagine he dipped into some Bruce Lee films for some inspiration. As for the Naruto segment, I can only imagine an animator was paying homage to either Bruce Lee, Cowboy Bebop or both.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-05 20:16
It's so nice to watch anime with mediocre animation and suddenly sakuga
yes, he was the animation director in that episode.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 2:59
>>950
I've read about claims that Yutapons sequence was taken from a Bruce Lee film as well, but never have I seen anyone actually name what movie it was taken from. Also, can the Naruto segment really be called a homage? Looks like it simply copies Yutapon's work.
I don't like this "who animated this" part of sakuga subculture at all.
If it's good animation, it's good animation. What does it matter who did it? All this stuff is quick to degenerate into e-penis wanking ("I know these and these animators", "I can recognize this and that") and a pointless talk about lineages. This lineage thing is actually what is pissing me off about certain sakuga blogs. Talk about the animation itself for fuck's sake, not about the supposed "dynasty" of some or other animator.
But maybe I just don't get the joy in that...
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 5:16
>>956
It's part of then fun of japanese animation though...or at least it is to me. Given all the various animation styles shown by different animators makes them more identifiable, so it's natural so wonder who animated what. It's not just about appreciating animation, but also the people who animate.
Animators are allowed and even encouraged to animate in their own style when it comes to Japanese animation. Animating is only a part of the visuals in anime anyway, most of the people that really get attention and influence a lot of people have also done storyboards or directing. People mainly notice this when it comes to anime because it's still largely hand drawn and produced in Japan.
Paying attention to the people behind the show isn't exclusive to anime either, just check any blog or video on Youtube focusing on Western animation, particularly Disney productions.
I guess when people initially get into this hobby through a MAD they tend to focus on animators first, but you eventually get to see how important everyone else is when it comes to defining the look of a particular anime. At that point it really isn't much different to the staff in live action if it weren't for the actor's job being split between the voice actor and animator.
>>956
But... the reason people would even ask is because they find some particular cut to have good animation, you can't claim they only care about names when they're interested in someone's particular animation style. And as everyone said, Japanese animation is very idiosyncratic so this is just natural. Or is it just history lessons that piss you off? Because I find those very interesting myself.
>>956
How should I say this, but you sound like a person still new to this 'sakuga' thing and you're overwhelmed by all the names being thrown banded about and your gut reaction is to hate it. I understand, it's sort of the reason why that one blogger made that post "Why I hate sakuga mads" it was a culture he couldn't understand and what do people resort to when they don't understand something? They find reasons to hate it.
Lets look at it another way, when a new anime is announced and people see the Director is Kawamori, they will often look into the director's backlog and try to draw conclusions based on past work and project them on to the new work. "Oh yeah Kawamori tends to like adding drama and sudden plot twists, that's such an Kawamori thing to do!" - With your line of thought we should just appreciate the story and not care who directed it.
Or lets say we find out the scriptwriter is, let's say it is Gen Urobochi. People might say "Oh its Urobochi, watch out, he's gonna make a dark and depressing story with deaths again!" With your line of thought we should just appreciate the story and not care who wrote it.
Or to go one even further, lets say we find out the lead antagonist is voiced by Takehito Koyasu, people might say "oh he's a great choice for this role, he's played some really great bad guys in the past!" With your line of thought we should just appreciate the characters, don't give thought to who voices them.
I mean, why should it be any different for animation and animators? The visual side of anime is often very understated and it's the least understood part of the medium. Surely we should be allowed to be excited Hiroyuki Imaishi did some new animation or be excited for Yutaka Nakamura's part in the new Studio Bones show?
I mean there will be people who are excited there is a new Kawamori show, there is a show being written by Urobochi or a show where Koyasu is voicing the antagonist. Heck there are people who will only watch said shows due to these participants. Should it be any different for animators? Should we value them less than other members of the staff?
On other cool news, Anime Mirai 2013's bluray will be sold at ACE on the 30th. I will send a bravo hero to get one copy and rip it, but it's limited to 1000 units so can't promise anything.
Well it is kinda close to the 2nd one in general. Except for the details such as the eyes and the face. Who knows, he might've adapted to KyoAni's general style and changed his own in the process.
On the other hand though I'd say 60% leaning on Nishiya and 40% leaning on Ishidate just because of how the anatomy feels.
Regarding Tamako ep 9. BASED FCKING NAITO. This episode was so fluid. Really good.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 12:11
>>980
Nice.
I thought we had to wait like 6 months for the BD.
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 12:12
>>981 Regarding Tamako ep 9. BASED FCKING NAITO. This episode was so fluid. Really good.
Excellent, how's the directing?
Name:
Anonymous2013-03-06 12:17
>>983
Started off uninteresting but the second half of the episode is goddamn excellent. I just find everything about Anko very unengaging so I couldn't care less about it no matter how much effort is put onto it, even if it's as well crafted as this episode.
Also thank god Yamada understands Takemoto's standpoint in omitting EDs. You see that Ishihara!? That's how you don't mess with the mood.
Well K-ON!! had those times but I'm really glad that Yamada allowed that to be done here. This has really been my gripe with Ishihara's shows(Clannad:AS,Chuu2). Sometimes the general mode of the song will just destroy any build up of the episode making it end with no impact at all.