The 2012 resolution thread (http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1324897198) took a turn after some riders suggested collaborating to make a video game. This thread attempts to more formally continue that line of thought.
Main points from previous thread:
0. /prog/riders of 2012, unite
1. Collaborate to make vidya game
2. Should be easily extendable by non-programmers to make Original Content
3. Make a simple campaign to demonstrate scripting so others will be able to learn and contribute their OC
Goal of this thread:
0. /prog/riders interested in the game idea, stand up and be counted (please use a throwaway name#trip)
1. We can see what set of skills are available in the group (please indicate what you're able to contribute - code in [language], 2D/3D art, text - in order of your ability with each, most skilled first). Feel free to mention anything else that might be useful/important.
2. Based on skills available, we can brainstorm realistic game ideas ITT (simpler deliverable is going to be better, since we likely haven't worked together before - if a solid group forms from the experience, we can later try something more ambitious).
3. Reach consensus on a specific project (reply to any you like, add your own ideas, repeat...).
4. Set up communication channels (IRC/wiki/mailing list) for those who formed the consensus (it's possible more than one project attracts an interested group).
5. Work out details, responsibilities, timeframe, etc. on alternate communication channels.
tl;dr Read SICP.
Name:
grouse!xdoz7cjaZY2011-12-30 11:23
I'll have free time to help out beginning in January.
(Timezone is UTC+2, but very open schedule)
Skills
Python (2d, pygame as well)
English editing, some creative writing
C++ (some 3d experience like scene graphs and ray-tracing, very rusty)
Photoshop editing (2d, not original art)
Scheme (never a "serious" project)
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 11:25
The most realistic target for /prog/ is an MMORPG written in Scheme, full 3d, space/planet exploration with realistic physics, although not realistic enough so that it takes hours to travel to the moon and shit.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 11:27
I can speak about JEWS.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 11:34
skills:
- BB-code MASTERY
- Berating others
- Calling people retarded
- Making fun of Sepples
- Making fun of imperative programming
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 11:43
If it's in Common Lisp or Scheme, I may be interested.
Name:
6!KaNBTm946s2011-12-30 11:46
I can also help with the Savonian translation, but only if you're using Common Lisp or Scheme.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 11:47
skillz
- Touching little girls
- Being drunk by 9am on the weekdays
- I can write "hello world" in Java
- I made it past the 11th grade
- I know how to turn on a computer
I'd be up for helping in a few weeks when I have more time.
I've done OpenGL programming in C, not for games though, for physics simulations, so it's more EXPERT MATHEMATICS than anything. I also have experience with GPGPU using CUDA and OpenCL.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 13:20
>>14 I'd be up for helping in a few weeks when I have more time.
Useful programming languages I know, from most to least experience:
- Python
- Ruby
- C (not much game programming, though)
- Scheme (could probably adapt to CL)
Other skills:
- Music/sound effects. We'll probably go for some cheesy game music, which I could pull off pretty well.
- Some basic 2D sprite art, but no big drawings.
- Could probably design a logo as well.
I'd prefer we write this in some kind of Lisp, apparently game design is really interesting in it.
We could make something MegaMan-like where the bosses are shitty /prog/ in-jokes. Or a beat-'em-up, which was suggested in the other thread. That way we can easily involve non-programmers in the project, for level design.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 14:10
You guys realize that it won't ever happen if you decide on a Lisp dialect, right?
Games I've made:
* A top-scrolling shooter where you're a blind bat and have to use echolocation to catch insects and avoid walls. Written in C with Allegro.
* A console-style RPG, in limbo until I think of a decent original battle-system. Written in C++ with Allegro.
* A text adventure written in Scheme.
* Tetris clone written in C with SDL.
* Lots of minigames (Tetris, Dr. Mario, Minesweeper, Boggle, Set!) written in Javascript.
* Pacman clone written in Pygame.
* Currently working on a Donkey Kong clone written in Javascript.
Math experience:
* Calculus (three semesters)
* Linear algebra
* Differential equations
* Discrete math
Other experience:
* Artificial intelligence (two semesters, including one taught by Stuart Russell himself)
* SICP
>>25
Admit it. The person is a total douche. Seriously. If this idiot was really all that and a bag of chips, he/she/it would have given some quality technical responses on here. I mean, don't you always find it amusing when the so called "ideal candidate" shows up when they smell of money?
>>27
Alright, if I don't count as `serious' despite using a `trip-code', I'm out. Thread over.
Name:
kc!taZqHR8ods2011-12-30 16:39
>>26
What do you want me to say? I have no experience other than arguing on the internet over which programming language is the best? This is a programming board, don't be surprised that some of us actually do program. If you don't, feel free to leave.
/prog/ cant even get together to make a simple chain program, you realize how much work a video game is OP?
I said this already, if you wanna go somewhere you better pinpoint exactly what kind of game it is and its mechanics. Also dont bother writing your own engine, just focus on game contents.
Otherwise you only end up with an engine with integrated common lisp and no game content whatsoever.
If you really are serious about this OP make a git or svn depo and start off with something and then try to motivate people to contribute.
Remember this is /prog/ and it hurts me so much saying this, its also still 4chan.
I still think the best language choice was made in the previous thread: engine in C, augmented with scripting in a Lisp.
Is the general consensus to stick to 2D? If this somehow Sussman help us works out, we could start a 3D engine after.
Name:
kc!taZqHR8ods2011-12-30 18:03
>>32
It's not online. I wrote it for a natural history presentation in high school and it's still sitting on some ancient Windows XP laptop. I'll see if I can dig it up.
>>33 you realize how much work a video game is
Depends on the type of game. It's not uncommon to make games in three day hackathons, even from scratch.
As far as revision control, Git would be ideal since it's distributed and I assume you're all more familiar with Git than Mercurial.
Anyways, what kind of game do you guys wanna make?
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 18:05
>>37 I still think the best language choice was made in the previous thread: engine in C, augmented with scripting in a Lisp.
Please elaborate. Why would this be the ``best language choice''? Just because some random guy who hasn't used either for anything worthwhile says so? Lisp is more than capable of handling `engine' tasks by itself.
Is the general consensus to stick to 2D?
That's fine, but don't even think about not using OpenGL for the graphics from the ground up. If you need reasons, you don't need reasons, because you just have to do what I say.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 18:07
>>38 I assume you're all more familiar with Git than Mercurial.
You assume wrong.
Name:
kc!taZqHR8ods2011-12-30 18:10
>>37 engine in C, augmented with scripting in a Lisp.
As much as people love to bash C++, and me being one of those people, it IS useful for two things: GUIs, and like it or not, games. Of course it depends on the game. Not every game needs to be object-oriented, but with some games it makes life tremendously easier, as long as you treat it like ``C with classes'' and ignore all the shitty features.
>>42
By stating that even one person of this `all' lot isn't more familiar with Git than Mercurial, I've successfully proved your assumption wrong, and thus my statement in >>40 is correct. Just how stupid can you be?
Name:
kc!taZqHR8ods2011-12-30 18:17
>>45
I assume your Asperger's is off the charts and IHBT.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 18:18
>>44
How does C++ even enter the picture here? This is about the shitbrained idea of using C+Lisp versus simply using Lisp.
>>49
I'd like to see a simple but old-style hacky-slashy RPG (no turn-based combat, please!). I wasn't thinking isometric, but that could be a possibility. What do you think?
>>51
I'm down with something like that. A ``Link to the Past'' style game would be awesome. Those types of games are pretty ambitious I would suggest working a good design document and tilesets before writing a lot of code.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 18:37
>>52 a good design document
Do that and don't come back until it's finished.
>>52
I'm down to start working on a design document, for reals. Are you an artist? I can do decent art, but nothing spectacular. Regardless, plot and setting and items and gameplay design all have to come first.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 18:48
>>54
Considering you're replying to kc!taZqHR8ods, you probably meant: ``Are you an autist?''.
The programming language part can be resolved, just agree on a language nobody likes.
Name:
kc!taZqHR8ods2011-12-30 18:51
>>54
I'm not a pixel artist, no. I would suggest finding some free tilesets online, even just placeholders. It isn't hard to swap tiles later if you have a decent level editor.
The design document should be collaborative. How should we do that?
Apparently mail delivery to your account on the wiki failed... 'does not exist'
Name:
howdoicomputer!4kK4ZvnpWI2011-12-30 19:33
Are we going to use seperate threads for different parts of the engine?
Name:
kc!taZqHR8ods2011-12-30 19:33
>>65
Email kc.tazqhr8ods@gmail.com with your trip to be added as a user. I'll give you pass phrase to post here to prove it's your trip, then I'll escalate your privileges.
Looking at the tripfag skillsets, it seems there are two languages in common:
Python
C/C++
I like the idea of a 2D real-time action game like Legend of Zelda. Even if we don't have many autists artists, we could re-use the sprites from existing games (or just develop with placeholders until a wild drawfag appears. The biggest improvement over classic Zelda would be more (branching) dialogue, as well as the aforementioned level editor for easy customization.
The biggest weakness I see in a Zelda-style game is lack of multiplayer (which is why I was using beat-em-ups as an example in the other thread). In the spirit of making a simple deliverable first, I'm okay with that loss - the ability of others to extend the map/quests gives it enough multiplayer flavor.
I'm personally weaker at C/C++, but wouldn't mind trying, since that's the only language the tripfags ITT all have in common. I'm sure there are libraries out there that make life as easy as Pygame does ...right? Please point me to one, since I've been out of the loop for a while. If you can't offhand think of a good C/C++ library for this kind of game, I highly suggest looking at Pygame, since it's so goddamn easy to make this kind of game with it.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 21:00
>>88 python
gtfo, no one wants your FIOC shit here.
1. Scripting languages for any game are slow and bad especially when you have a group of people who clearly dont know what the fuck they are doing.
2. Please don't associate C with C++, there's a big difference
3. back to /g/,/v/ with all of you.
Name:
a!SOyC1Olqoo2011-12-30 21:03
I'm in.
Experience:
- Languages: Mostly Haskell, C, Python, x86_64 assembly, and PHP (ashamed of it). Knows enough to be able to pick up something new quickly.
- Some experience with parsers/interpreters. Have implemented a few simple lisp-based languages in Haskell and PHP.
- A little experience with graphics, nothing beyond an animated 2D-character running around on a background or a bouncing 3D cube. The 2D-character was in python, but I kept trying to reinvent coroutines, so I started to switch to haskell, reinventing pygame + a DSL for actor handling.
In GMT+1, working 9 to 5.
I suggest a "Zelda: A Link To The Past"-like game, user extendable with maps using Tiled ( http://www.mapeditor.org/ ) and some language for scripting. Possible spin-offs of this core idea that I've considered, is:
- User-programmable spells, maybe some automatic problem generator where more advanced spells require more advanced programming.
- Focused on some kind of programmatically generated dialogue and history. Bethesda's Radiant Quest System on steroids.
- MMORPG.
>>93
Basing anything off a shitty company like Bethesda is bound to fail
Name:
a!SOyC1Olqoo2011-12-30 21:32
>>94
Yes, it sucks, I agree. So let us not base it on it, but rather be inspired by its goals and faults, progressing to that perfect dialogue/history system.
I think if we do the user-programmable part right, we'll get an limitless supply of quests/dialogue/history that would be infinitely better than anything we could dynamically generate.
I love the potential of the MMO idea, but I think that should wait until we can pull off a single- or (limited) multi-player version first.
I'm also happy you've got Pygame listed :)
Name:
howdoicomputer!4kK4ZvnpWI2011-12-30 21:42
freenode #progame
Get the fuck in here if you want to contribute
Another pretty good (although turn-based / probably a bit obscure) rpg was 'Legend of legaia'...
Would be great to see something like the combo-moves you could nut out in that game...
each direction would be a type of hit, and pressing a set combination of directions would do special moves, so something like up-down-[up] would be high-kick, low-kick, [backflip uppercut]... and with enough room in a turn you could get more than one special move in... Eg. down-up-[up]-down-[up] might be low-kick, high-kick, [roundhouse], low-kick, [backflip uppercut]...
also some moves needed to be taught(/unlocked), while others could be learnt just by guessing the right buttons
Name:
a!SOyC1Olqoo2011-12-30 22:15
>>97
Yes, I was thinking dynamically generated as basically programmable. We have some game state, and the dialogues are some DSL that modifies it and makes menus and stuff based on it.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-30 22:45
Please consider the follow fellow /prog/mites:
->Portability
-->Shit should run on Linux,Windows and Macs
->Lisp
-->If it ain't lisp, it's shit.
->If you can't do Lisp as your main consider it as a scripting addon.
/prog/ challenges work when they pit individual /prog/rammers against each other, because they exploit the natural impulses of the /prog/rammer. Collaborations never work, because the people who actually know what they're doing are too jaded to get along with the others.
This is going to be another Anonix.
Wonder how you'd go doing those types of animations in sprites (could settle for something a lot simpler than backflips / etc..) / or even making that type of attack input work in real time rather than between turns...
I guess you could hold shift, bash away at the numeric/arrow keys for a bit, then release (hopefully before the enemy smashes you or moves out the way..)
I haven't been to /prague/ in a few days, but this seems alright.
I'm fluent in C, C++, C#, and Java. Any C based language would be fine for me though though. I have enough of an understanding of Lisp that scripting in it would be cool too.
As for style, what say you guys to mixing the RPG and beat-em-up styles? Sort of like Castle Crashers I suppose.
This is a fun idea. My only qualm is with ``howdoicomputer''. You seem like a bit of a meme-parroting douche. Guessing you're from /g/ or /v/?
Tone it down a little.
Pros: can program in C (kinda), C# (well), Python (ok), Haskell (EXPERT PROGRAMMER), Erlang (I only mention it because it's a cool language)
generally considered kawaii by his peers
is not much of an ``idea man'' Cons: never finished a game
finds programming less annoying when drunk Please contact my manager if you're interested in hiring me.
>>134
Yeah, I think we could do it, but I don't think many people would want to install it.
Also think that it'd be difficult to get people to agree on a language, or to stick with the project.
>>134
Don't think that's the problem, if source and everything was open, /prog/riders can audit the code themselves. The problem with that most of us either don't have the time or lack the interesting in such projects or they would be more likely to just do it by themselves, but maybe I'm wrong about this.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-31 14:19
>>136 they would be more likely to just do it by themselves This is the biggest problem, I think. I assume that most /Prague/riders feel good enough about their programming skills that they'd rather be the ``head developer'' and make all the decisions, and at the same time most of them are experienced enough to know that most ``internet projects'' don't go anywhere.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-31 14:29
>>137
I don't know about anyone else, but I refuse to work with a bunch of clueless idiots. Seriously. I don't mind being a code monkey a project. However, it just gets really fucking annoying when we have to backtrack and correct another persons mistake because the other team memember is just plain retarded.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-31 14:30
>>137
But you're right in the respect that that a lot of "internet projects" don't go anywhere.
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-31 14:48
Past experience in previous strategy games, both turned based and real-time, all 2D though, special interests in path finding and AI strategy, in C/C++.
I'm a kernel programmer so interfacing, multithreading, fine adjustments are more my turf, not games, but h-heyy..!
On version control have used git and svn
So.. there, I don't really see this idea going forward though
Name:
Phydeaux!IQnIq2e6Hs2011-12-31 14:59
I am not particularly good, but if I can help...
My main experience is C#, but I can deal with C, SEPPLES, and a little of Scheme and Java. If other languages are put in, I can always read an emergency manual.
It's easy to say Internet projects often derail, but to look at why and try to come up with ways to mitigate that would be a great help. Even if you're not personally invested in the game idea - analysis like that is something the Internet as a whole could use.
Fucking collaboration. How does it work?
Name:
Anonymous2011-12-31 15:20
>>142
alright, a small team 1-3 people start brainstorming on what the game should be, it's a good start
Easy. Most people are either unmotivated or shortsighted morons. Without motivation like your career depending on it or a mechanism to filter out the imbeciles from the environment, you end up with a conglomerate of time-wasting mongoloids that haven't even read SICP completed a more than slightly trivial program before, let alone a game.
Star Trek Voyager: Janeway's Winter - It's a TBS game, where you have to interact with cultures while still trying to get your crew home. Like Oregon Trail in some aspects.
Id prefer a CS(magic) themed RPG.
Where you can use the usual shit like call/cc, segfault shit or just eval(apply).
Trade items like conses and other magic shit.
Also java dragons, c++ cyclopses and python trolls as enemies.
who would install something on their computer if it came from 4chon?
Aah, this could be the axiomatic constraint to bring this /prog/ject into consensus:
1) use JavaScriptLANGUAGE SOLVED
2) use FrozenVoidPROJECT LEADER SOLVED
3) use FrozenVoid naming convention and iterative pastebin driven development model.DEVELOPMENT MODEL SOLVED
There are some open-sores games with more than a few active contributors. It's all remote collaboration, division of labor, and they manage to deliver without career pressure. It's more like pride.
>>157
Ah, how serene. The jews chase you around for a while, then disappear, only to appear later again. This meaningless cycle repeats eternally, forever shimmering in the sea of darkness. Just like life itself.
What does /prog/ think about making a real time strategy game like command and conquer. You can get away with it having shit graphics and the mechanics would be easy. The whole game could be an aerial view of buildings, men, vehicles, etc.
Movement is like in pokemon. It's a grid of a * b. An object takes up a certain amount of space on the grid. Objects can be layed on the grid and we only show the top layer.
This would be interesting because it presents the possibility of sophisticated AI and game play. We could also make it multi-player--the grid is hosted on a server--You spawn a great deal away from other people and you can begin looking for resources and building.
I've wanted to do something like this for a while, because I found the AI to be interesting. But I think that I would get involved with something like the star craft ai competition instead, rather than rolling out an rts from scratch.
>>159-160
I was thinking of that too, but I have more important things up my work queue.
Name:
Anonymous2012-01-02 4:36
I'd like to see some MMO or something based on the Red Alert 2/YR style gameplay
You could have it like active grids where people are, and they gather and spend resources and build bases and such, but building a base becomes less effective and can eventually "implode" sort of, with the result being someone who newly joins the server gains controls of almost all your military or something, like a coup.
The world could be randomly or procedurally generated where like the center areas are normal, but then as you go out the riches and ease of making large bases increases, but you have to more effectively use the landscape in battles, which might make for interesting battles among the gubment and the populace.
Could even have objectives like that, or choose your playstyle, so that it's pointless to try and build a colony as a war-leader (you have to conquer your old home city), and although invading peoples' bases would be good for the base/civilization, it becomes harder and harder to keep everything running, so you can only conquer a few cities before all hell breaks loose
>>162 but building a base becomes less effective and can eventually "implode" sort of, with the result being someone who newly joins the server gains controls of almost all your military or something, like a coup.
Sounds interesting, but you'd have to be mindful to player frustration. There's nothing worse than investing hours in making something only to have it taken away by forces outside of your control. Although I suppose the goal is to motivate the player to avoid those situations by keeping things small.
Since there are only me, you and the Sussman, I'll work alone and post my game sometime in the next decade.
Name:
Anonymous2012-01-02 9:03
I was working on a game engine a while ago. It was meant to be a clone of Game Maker, but I got in over my head. Let me know if you want to know about it.
>>169
It was a solo project, it's sitting on my comp collecting dust. The original plan was to make a c++ library that pretty much let you copy-paste your GML into your c++ IDE without much editing. When I started trying to remove some limitations, and implement some new features, things got a little too complicated. I still think it's a pretty good idea, making a game engine as easy to use as Game Maker, with the flexibility of writng it in c++ gives. Looking back on it though, it was pretty poorly written, and I only got as far as rooms, sprites, objects, backrounds, and views, and they weren't all fully implemented, or even fully functional. Perhaps it'd be better to rewrite it, but if you want the code, I guess maybe I could upload it some time.
No, no. No solo stuff. Do it with someone else or don't do it at all. This is my challenge to you /prog/. You might just be surprised by how much more you can accomplish with other people.
>>171
Initially, you start off with a low Satori level but throughout the game you meet such fun characters as Sussman and Abelson, even Stallman. These wizards tutor your player and you gain arcane understanding which manifest itself as spells. The game will use a heavy amount of actual coding and visual analogies wherever possible.
In order to win over the girls it will be impossible not to master SICP. Perhaps, within the game environment, actually challenges from the community can be submitted to challenge the player to complete them and create cool software. In this way, the user is forced to create original content.
Once satori has been achieved you are now a judge or mentor, and other players can go to you to gain satori levels.
Name:
Anonymous2012-01-02 11:13
>>172
I'd be very happy to continue working on it with someone else, except I ahve no idea how to work in a group, I never have.
When winning over girls, it can be like the you are out to dinner and she really wants to order the meal that costs exactly the number of destinations that a knight could move to on a chess board in 4 moves, divided by the number of squares a bishop could move to in 2 moves, starting from a corner. And you must solve this using your handy scheme interpreter.
Or you come home from dinner, only to find that an evil villain has encrypted all of her source code, and will provide the key for a ransom. But then you discover that she is an expert programmer, and cracks the cipher and gets all of her source code back, finds the IP address of the perpetrator and then haxes his anireports him to the authorities.
We could make it. It wouldn't be too hard to get eh code together, but the art and character development would have to be in depth, otherwise it would just be a frontend to project euler or something.
Would it want some sort of targeting system(?) for ranged weapons/attacks?
Can i suggest using something quick to press maybe? i guess it depends on how you set up the rest of the keys, but CTRL + Z (z-targeting ^^ zelda 64) to flip up a crosshair or something?