>>6
Very good idea, LOGO is one of the first programming languages I was taught and I really enjoyed but also learned a huge amount about computation and programming theory.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-23 15:47 ID:7+0r/GV+
>>8
It depends on whether OP wants to be an EXPERT PROGRAMMER or just to barf out code.
I don't work in html very often but I have enough experience from high school. Anyway, thanks for the eloquent java link. Will this seriously help me take down sites?
ASM. Seriously it's not too complicated it's just a pain to use. You might not want to use it once you get used to high level languages so why don't you learn it first.
Basically everything in a number, commands each have an abbreviation and are done in order, and you just use goto to do loops and stuff.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-24 22:46 ID:AonfrjBh
PHP, all the faggot teens are using it.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-25 3:05 ID:7f54vE6K
Learn C.
Name:
Why The Lucky Quiff2007-08-25 3:14 ID:dtGJlZEb
I invite you to try a most excellent programming language dude! <electric guitar riff> http://tryruby.hobix.com/
- *sigh* my site is actually down right now.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-25 7:57 ID:algrF6+7
COBOL
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-25 17:31 ID:ioOKtJMY
BASIC!
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-25 17:43 ID:bvmxdcwF
Do what every Java programmer does. Start with C, then learn C++, then go to Java. OOP is pretty easy, but it's a sucky way to start right off the bat.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 6:19 ID:4u+A12cX
>>31
Java is a lot easier, and more beginner friendly (debugging) than C and C++
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 8:21 ID:QzyPRlLi
>>32
Java is ugly and stupid. C is much easier than Java, unless you're a Java "programmer" that googles for code and copypastas everything without having a fucking clue of what's going on.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 9:11 ID:83gKzY/J
I started out with Pascal and if you're interested in imperative programming I recommend youdo the same. It has pretty nice syntax (much more readable than the C-like languages if you're a beginner) and requires much less low-level knowledge than C. You won't have to worry about pointer bullshit while you're still learning the basic language constructs. Later on, you can move on to OO by using Turbo Pascal / Delhi-specific stuff and switching to C, C++, Java or anything else will be really easy.
>>34
Those who don't understand pointers are full of fail and are unworthy of /prog/ much less life.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 12:30 ID:EPnF5XTo
Yes, only the truest Sages know the beauty of the pointers. Eic fail for those who reject their existence. Unacceptable.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 13:05 ID:8jkmZNAe
>>37
in many application fields, there is no need for explicit management of pointers (you still have pointers in, say, lisp, all references are pointers). Still, though, you need to learn them, no discussion. Any programmer should know C.
About starting with pascal... well, it was one of my first languages, but I hate it. It's ugly. It's very fucking ugly. Though it became a better language through time, I'd say you start with something different.
Javascript seems a good idea to me, it's easy to use and you don't need to download any interpreter or anything, just use your browser
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 14:23 ID:83gKzY/J
I wasn't arguing that you should skip pointers entirely; once he starts doing complex data structures (linked list!) and the like, he'll have to learn about them. OO Pascal is filled with pointers as well.
But pointers aren't the first thing you want to focus on when you start out learning about programming. First you'll need to learn about variables, assignments and control statements. In C you won't even be able to use strings without manipulating pointers, therefore it's a terrible choice as a learning programming language.
Javascript seems like a bad choice; I think a strongly-typed language with a strict compiler is a better way to start imperative programming. He wants to learn programming, not website design.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 17:20 ID:T6oLMt/N
What did you find ugly about Pascal?
a. begin
b. ; as a statement separator not statement terminator.
c. ugly treatment of registers and arrays in function parameters, an the like.
d. end
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 18:43 ID:PRpH6oeq
>>40
Technically, begin and end should be in point a.
So there's only three things you don't like about Pascal, which isn't so bad.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 18:59 ID:T6oLMt/N
>>41
of course, but I though it better to have begin at the begin and end at the end.
Yes, it's not THAT bad.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 23:57 ID:LrE10pNI
Javascript really is a nice language. The whole browser interaction stuff is pretty nasty, but it (and ActionScript, which are both ECMAScript) at its core does OO pretty decently without a lot of hassle.
>>40
You missed:
Pascal programmers
tend to indent
fucking
retardedly
for
some goddamn reason.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-27 4:27 ID:kHP+Y8pl
>>40
BEGIN and END are not a nuisance; just pretend they are braces and use K&R, the only true braces style, like (and let's see if I can remember how to do Pascal):
IF a = 1 THEN BEGIN
fuck;
lol(1);
END ELSE BEGIN
lawl;
END;
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-27 9:35 ID:veQgTzWJ
SICP is overrated.
Having said that, OP should read SICP and learn Haskell or Scheme. Or, if OP wants to be a fag programmer, rather than an EXPERT PROGRAMMER, OP should not read SICP and learn Java or C# instead.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-27 10:56 ID:rF85hA7j
I'd start with HTML (if you don't know it already) sprinkled with some JavaScript. Once you master that, and want to start with a language that gives you executables, C# is a good beer-chaser. (Unless you're on Linux/OS X) Then you can move on to C, C++, Java, and whatever other languages there are out there.
>>40
a. and d.: To a newbie, keyword begin and end are a lot more readable than { and }.
b.: I kinda like using a statement seperator over a terminator. But if you're so inclined, you're still allowed to use it as a terminator in Pascal since an empty statement is treated as skip.
c.: Fair enough.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-28 15:27 ID:GSmluSpC
>>66
Programming languages should not be optimized to be readable by those who do not know how to program. That kind of braindamage is what inspired COBOL.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-28 17:03 ID:a7ghuxAd
>>67
Agreed, but we need some kind of middle ground. Perl oneliners that look like
%$#^**$(%(^$#@{}[]
are also not exactly desirable (especially for a newbie).
The point is that someone who is new to programming needs to focussing on things like control structures. As a beginner, what you need is to learn about assignments, about conditional statements and loops. You should not have to worry about stupid syntactic stuff.
Let's not forget that the C-like languages have one of the worst possible assignment symbols possible (namely the = sign, used for equality in pretty much every single other field). Also conditional expressions like b?x:y are not exactly elegant syntax, nor are these shorthands relevant to newbie programmers.
These syntactic monstrosities will hinder anyone new to programming. When you have the basics down, switching to a different language is trivial.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-28 22:03 ID:LyicYDL4
>>66
when I was a newbie programming and pascal was like the second language I ever learnt (after BASIC), I thought begin end were ugly, and when I learnt C (which I'm guessing was the third language), the first thing I loved was the braces. >>68
rite about the syntax stuff, but then again that's why scheme is so much better than pascal.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 5:47 ID:N0/J+A1V
When I learnt C, I didn't give a damn about braces. When I learnt Pascal, I didn't give a damn about BEGIN..END. When I learnt Python, I didn't give a damn about the forced indentation of code. But now I realize the forced indentation of code is the way, because:
1. It forces fucking faggots to indent properly
2. It avoid stupid braces-go-in wars. (Though I'm up for one; K&R wins and everything else is for faggots.)
3. It saves lines of text by not having to close anything, and makes more of the program fit in a screen, which makes code more readable without decreasing the font size.
4. It avoids stupid {} vs BEGIN END wars (this is a new!).
5. It spares { } from being reserved characters and BEGIN END from being reserved words.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 8:36 ID:axaWN6LC
#define BEGIN {
#define END }
Now quit bitching.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 10:22 ID:R3DlVV25
I'm gonna go with BASIC.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 11:47 ID:pQuD25GV
The best first language to learn is Brainfuck
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 14:08 ID:fTiNzSKk
1. It forces fucking faggots to indent properly
except that people still do stupid shit like using tabs or using way too many spaces.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 18:41 ID:QyFoIH1Z
>>74
Propose the forced usage of spaces. Guido already favours spaces over tabs strongly.
>>80
IDLE, right? Well, a decent IDE isn't one that fucks with my indentation, or any of my code, for that matter. IDEs in general suck anyways, since all of their functionality can be replicated with vim/emacs scripts.
Anyways, go read PEP 8, fags:
"Use 4 spaces per indentation level."
"The most popular way of indenting Python is with spaces only. The second-most popular way is with tabs only. Code indented with a mixture of tabs and spaces should be converted to using spaces exclusively." http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
>>19
I failed it. Hard. I'm at the beginning, at the string section, at the part where it tells you how to start a new line in a string with \n. And it's not working. I copy/pasted the example and it worked. Then, I tried doing it with my own text, and it didn't work. Then I tried typing it out exactly as they showed it...and it still didn't work.
"This is the first line\nAnd this is the second" is printing out...exactly that. Spaces aren't fixing it either.
Name:
Anonymous2007-09-04 23:09 ID:luZDwiaT
>>87
I don't think IDEfags will accept statement except when they, like you, are attemping the "No, John. You are the demons." argument.
Name:
Anonymous2007-09-04 23:16 ID:Jh2BfWD6
>>89
It should be working in the source, but since it's JS, you need to use the HTML linebreak element, <br/>
so just do something like "First line<br/>Second line"
Name:
Anonymous2007-09-05 5:05 ID:1xWYQ1Xr
>>1
Read SICP, or learn Logo, or maybe Python. Then move to Python.
Name:
Anonymous2007-09-05 8:58 ID:2IBErohv
>>61
Im not even going to fucking lie here.
First year of a software engineering degree.
They taught us C and machine code(Z80).
Nothing too deep, just hello world type shit if then else while, etc.
I was fucking thankfull for that I can tell you.
All of these new fangled languages dont account for shit unless you can work out how the computer actually executes what you are writing.
Otherwise all you will be doing amounts to flinging shit at a wall. That is not true understanding.
Name:
Anonymous2007-09-05 9:04 ID:2IBErohv
You are probably being fucked over OOP because Java and classes are like a black box to you.
Install eclipse, then write some code that uses one aspect of OOP, for example a constructor or methods.
now set a breakpoint in your main(...) function before any OOP code is executed.
then step through the code till the end, whilst observing all object values(stuff that changes turns red).
Do this every time you experience a new technique and you will realise that OOP is just the same old shit in a candy wrapping, but you need to figure out WHAT that candy wrapping is exactly.
I suggest you do this since ever GUI API that I know is implemented using OOP, so using a different language would not help.
>>95
One could argue that the model of assigning HANDLEs to everything and then having them manipulated by functions of the form f(handle, param1, param2, ...) is object orientated. It's not too far away from handle.f(param1, param2, ...) and so on.
>>91
that didn't work either. I e-mailed the maker about it. It might be the mini-compiler they provide on the site.
also 111 GET
Name:
Anonymous2008-01-25 20:37
>>89
Single quotes will not convert newlines to actual newlines, but rather literalise them.
Name:
Anonymous2008-01-25 20:56
>>110
You're using the wrong parser. That was CDRML, which is a subset of SGML, not XML.
Name:
Anonymous2008-01-26 2:05
>>1
If your goal is becoming a hacker, skip the programming part altogether. Looking and sounding like a hacker is much more important, so start dressing like a raver, get some piercings, read slashdot religiously, and start randomly ranting about how libertarianism and Ron Paul are the only hope for humanity.
It is also important that you lose any aversion you might have to fat chicks with kids, as these are the only women willing to sleep with hackers.
Name:
Anonymous2008-01-26 8:00
For a learner's language, I recommend Python or Logo, or if you think you're good enough, read SICP and learn Scheme.
Name:
Anonymous2008-01-26 9:36
>>114
what th efuck are you talking about hakcer EFGEIGTK YUOR!!
jim jones would bust a cap in yuor ass ;_;