Okay, I'm completely new to programming. Java's giving me headaches since I've never done OOP before.
I'm trying to be a true hacker on steroids, can you help me /prog/?
I tried asking this in /g/ but I'm still indecisive.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 18:43 ID:PRpH6oeq
>>40
Technically, begin and end should be in point a.
So there's only three things you don't like about Pascal, which isn't so bad.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 18:59 ID:T6oLMt/N
>>41
of course, but I though it better to have begin at the begin and end at the end.
Yes, it's not THAT bad.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-26 23:57 ID:LrE10pNI
Javascript really is a nice language. The whole browser interaction stuff is pretty nasty, but it (and ActionScript, which are both ECMAScript) at its core does OO pretty decently without a lot of hassle.
>>40
You missed:
Pascal programmers
tend to indent
fucking
retardedly
for
some goddamn reason.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-27 4:27 ID:kHP+Y8pl
>>40
BEGIN and END are not a nuisance; just pretend they are braces and use K&R, the only true braces style, like (and let's see if I can remember how to do Pascal):
IF a = 1 THEN BEGIN
fuck;
lol(1);
END ELSE BEGIN
lawl;
END;
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-27 9:35 ID:veQgTzWJ
SICP is overrated.
Having said that, OP should read SICP and learn Haskell or Scheme. Or, if OP wants to be a fag programmer, rather than an EXPERT PROGRAMMER, OP should not read SICP and learn Java or C# instead.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-27 10:56 ID:rF85hA7j
I'd start with HTML (if you don't know it already) sprinkled with some JavaScript. Once you master that, and want to start with a language that gives you executables, C# is a good beer-chaser. (Unless you're on Linux/OS X) Then you can move on to C, C++, Java, and whatever other languages there are out there.
>>40
a. and d.: To a newbie, keyword begin and end are a lot more readable than { and }.
b.: I kinda like using a statement seperator over a terminator. But if you're so inclined, you're still allowed to use it as a terminator in Pascal since an empty statement is treated as skip.
c.: Fair enough.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-28 15:27 ID:GSmluSpC
>>66
Programming languages should not be optimized to be readable by those who do not know how to program. That kind of braindamage is what inspired COBOL.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-28 17:03 ID:a7ghuxAd
>>67
Agreed, but we need some kind of middle ground. Perl oneliners that look like
%$#^**$(%(^$#@{}[]
are also not exactly desirable (especially for a newbie).
The point is that someone who is new to programming needs to focussing on things like control structures. As a beginner, what you need is to learn about assignments, about conditional statements and loops. You should not have to worry about stupid syntactic stuff.
Let's not forget that the C-like languages have one of the worst possible assignment symbols possible (namely the = sign, used for equality in pretty much every single other field). Also conditional expressions like b?x:y are not exactly elegant syntax, nor are these shorthands relevant to newbie programmers.
These syntactic monstrosities will hinder anyone new to programming. When you have the basics down, switching to a different language is trivial.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-28 22:03 ID:LyicYDL4
>>66
when I was a newbie programming and pascal was like the second language I ever learnt (after BASIC), I thought begin end were ugly, and when I learnt C (which I'm guessing was the third language), the first thing I loved was the braces. >>68
rite about the syntax stuff, but then again that's why scheme is so much better than pascal.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 5:47 ID:N0/J+A1V
When I learnt C, I didn't give a damn about braces. When I learnt Pascal, I didn't give a damn about BEGIN..END. When I learnt Python, I didn't give a damn about the forced indentation of code. But now I realize the forced indentation of code is the way, because:
1. It forces fucking faggots to indent properly
2. It avoid stupid braces-go-in wars. (Though I'm up for one; K&R wins and everything else is for faggots.)
3. It saves lines of text by not having to close anything, and makes more of the program fit in a screen, which makes code more readable without decreasing the font size.
4. It avoids stupid {} vs BEGIN END wars (this is a new!).
5. It spares { } from being reserved characters and BEGIN END from being reserved words.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 8:36 ID:axaWN6LC
#define BEGIN {
#define END }
Now quit bitching.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 10:22 ID:R3DlVV25
I'm gonna go with BASIC.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 11:47 ID:pQuD25GV
The best first language to learn is Brainfuck
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 14:08 ID:fTiNzSKk
1. It forces fucking faggots to indent properly
except that people still do stupid shit like using tabs or using way too many spaces.
Name:
Anonymous2007-08-29 18:41 ID:QyFoIH1Z
>>74
Propose the forced usage of spaces. Guido already favours spaces over tabs strongly.