So what do you all think of the anti police riots in Britain?? Thoughts? Stupid or awesome?
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Anonymous2011-03-27 0:54
Naturally it's awesome. Outside of cartoonland, cops are honorless swine. They're psychopaths who frame random people for anything they want. It's a career job for schoolyard bullies, and it's as far from "protecting the people" as you can get. Down with the cult of Justitia!
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Anonymous2011-03-27 1:22
Agreed i hate the tv portrayal of the pigs as being so good and moral which gives those who have never had the "pleasure" of interacting with the police a corrupted view of who these people really are.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 2:07
fag
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Anonymous2011-03-27 3:02
>>2
Outside of "cartoonland" are normal people, including those who are not corrupt or just want to get through the day doing their particular line of work. Quite ironically, you seem to only be able to view other people as a group through the childish lens of fiction where it is perfectly valid for "all x characters to be y" without exceptions.
Also, is "cult of Justitia" a reference?
>>3
That most series portray police as "just" is a byproduct of focusing on a protagonists pool that the audience should find reason to idolize or admire. When police are not used as "the plot demands it" obfuscation tools or villains (or victims), they typically get a flat portrayal. If you talk to them off-duty, asides from a few neat stories, they're people, both shallow and well-versed are represented.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 3:37
>>5
A cop itself is an enforcer of moralfaggot oppression, so just WORKING as a cop is immoral in itself, because you become a part of a system oppressing the people of a country.
Actually, it's worse than that: Anyone working for law enforcement is a member of a "little known" worldspanning cult worshipping the roman goddess Justitia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice ) and her laws. Contrary to other roman dieties, Justitia is an very INSANE goddess: She rules over "what's wrong" and "what's right", but the kicker is that she lets her FOLLOWERS decide what is to be a virtue and what is to be a sin, on their own, so these people try to arrive at conclusions blindly, writing down all these made up sins and virtues in a book called simply "The Law", which of course varies greatly from nation to nation. Usually simple ACTIONS are deemed sinful, like if you would travel back in time to murder Hitlers parents, you've commited a sin against Justitia called "murder". It's bullshit from start to finish. This semi-secret cult must be made separate from the state, just like christianity.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 3:53
>>6
I don't know how the goddess of insanity became the goddess of justice. It's just mind-boggling.
If you would see a goddess wearing a blindfold and sporting a sharp sword, preoccupied with weighing invisible things on a scale which she can't even see, You Would Not Go Near Her. You'd Get Your Head Lopped Off. She'd go "Hey, you there! What do you weigh?" and then there's a brief moment of unlucky weighing and then you're FUCKED.
Who but other insane people would WORSHIP this monstress???
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Anonymous2011-03-27 4:02
Out of all the goddesses they could choose to worship for guidance, they picked the one who was blind.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 5:31
Iustitia must die!
Off with her head!
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Anonymous2011-03-27 7:24
The police is only there to protect the politicians from the public. Nothing wrong with politicians wanting to protect themselves, but they should pay for policing themselves.
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Greek boy2011-03-27 7:25
A good cop is a dead cop
Tutorial explaining how you should interact with the police:
>>11
Instead of a small piece of dynamite, you could just use a small nuclear device, just enough to break the bottle, or some anthrax - that'll work too - OR, you could fill the bottle with angry bees, and then load it into a tiny tank, and then fire it using a little bit of laser guidance.
The funny thing is that rioters in greece had a dog names kanelos that went to all demonstrations and attacked the cops. The dog was paralysed from breathing too much tear gas. For some time the rioters had built him a wheelchair type thing and he still went to demos on his wheelchair. The legend also says that kanelos was also abducted by fascists but he was found later. Now there is a very similar looking dog following his steps :)
People tend to think that all policemen are wicked, just because they heard about a case or several of police brutality. That's stupid. Generalization is like communism, and communism is bad!
Not all cops are bad, even though some are. And there are BIG differences between countries.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 11:10
I thought the rioters were "anarchists."
Government wants to cut spending programs, which would put them a step closer to the anarchist ideal of the state withering away, and the anarchists object to this and respond by trying to burn down the city.
Maybe I don't understand UK politics, but that's just retarded.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 11:26
Not all protesters are 'anarchists' and 'anarchists' are not really anarchists.
Also, you are confusing (neo)libarals with anarchists. Wiki should be helpfull.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 11:59
>>17
Let's also avoid confusing self-governance(liberty and autonomy) with anarchist: no governance.
Republican and democrat have given way to the new duocracy:
an evolved form of Nazi'ism called
Globalized socialistic utilitarianism
(the world slave machine, ie NWO),
AND
Compartmental sovereign culturcracy
(gangs of power thugs vying for supremacy and priveledge, ie fags, nigs, Energy-barons, media-barons jews, fundamentalists, addicts, naturists, ).
anarchist is a label used by the overlords to condemn those suffering from exhausted frustration...
>>18
Yeah, I totally believe that. You're so smart!
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Anonymous2011-03-27 12:28
>>18
I think you're wrong about anarchy being the lack of governance but I can Understand why you'd think that.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 12:36
>>15
Cops REPRESENT corruption. They do the biddings of democratically elected DESPOTS that NOBODY wants ruling their lives, and their goal is to put out any unruly passions among the depots' slaves. They're scum PER DEFINITION. Lying, manupilation, oppression, all these dishonorable things are in their WORK DESCRIPTION. To say there's good cops is like saying there's good pestilence outbreaks, and that people are just disgruntled because they've run into bad outbreaks.
On TOP of that, who do you think TAKES and ACCEPTS these jobs, that requires kids being brainwashed through childrens shows in order to maintain good PR? It's not people with conscience. It's not people with souls. It's EVIL motherfuckers - people who LOVES to be taught dirty tricks in order to kill people.
If somebody offered me to become a cop (and there was no way for me to exploit this position to put a bunch of C4 in my workplace) I would turn that offer down, because I'm not a complete slime.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 12:56
>democratically elected DESPOTS
>democracy
>despot
what_the_fuck_am_i_reading.jpg
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Anonymous2011-03-27 12:57
>>21
Like >>5 said, a childish perspective that believes a group of people is homogeneous beyond measurable comparison between different individuals in it. No one can go into it with any other position than wanting to wreck stuff up for other people like some psychopath to you. If some naive future ever comes about where even law enforcement becomes obsolete, you would do well to discard that tendency to prejudge people. Also, your capitalization system sucks: you're only supposed to add emphasis to a few key words, not every other word.
and there was no way for me to exploit this position to put a bunch of C4 in my workplace
I don't even want to know why you would bring that up.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 13:13
>>23
Oh go fuck yourself, copper. We know your kind around here well enough.
I'll tell you why I would bring that up: Because nothing would make me happier than dead cops. "Bad" cops, "good" cops, "dirty" cops, "clean" cops: They're all cops. They make shit look good. They're the opposite of necessary: They're cancer standing in the way of a people's freedom.
If you are so sure that your kind is so wanted and necessary, give your gun away to someone and give him an opportunity to murder you and get away with it. Try your hypothesis that you in any way deserve to live.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 13:23
I personally think anyone who sets up riots to oppose the police are shitup retarded, especially considering the Police are meant to be there to serve them.
People used to respect the police. Now kids just give them the finger and the police arn't allowed to even tell them to stop it. It's disgusting.
>>24
It's clear you're just a spack who hates the police because they caught you trying to steal tyres off some car. Boo fucking hoo.
- When was the last time you saw a police serve any non-famous civilian outside your cop shows and your news?
- In what way would a police officer "serve" the rioters?
There are good reasons that people don't respect the police anymore, and it's called "the internet". People EDUCATE themselves through the internet: They learn the ugly truth behind the image of a caring, honorable cop that is there to "serve the public". A cops job is to OPPRESS the public. A cops job is to enforce compliance. A cops job is to lie. A cops job is to manipulate. A cops job is to make the public serve a nation's despots. You may still believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny because you've never seen what the instructors actually TEACH cops.
No "serving" cop is going to come to your rescue if you have murderers trying to break into your house. Try it. Try calling 911 if that ever happens. An hour later they'll call you back: "Is he gone yet? Are you dead? Should I send the coroner?"
Oh, and go fuck yourself, asshole. I've seen a fair share of innocent people getting sent to jail no matter how much evidence proving their innocence. If there's ever a "fair trial" it would happen completely by accident. ...but it LOOKS good, and it LOOKS fair, so it's more like a show than anything else. Remind me to say "boo fucking hoo" if you ever find yourself sent to jail on a murder charge because you happened to live next door to a murder. I bet your last cries in the electric chair would be "I can't believe this is happening! *gasp* I'm innocent! I didn't do it!". Maybe not even then would you get it: The justice system don't fucking care about you. It never did and it never will. If the killer is still out there, that means the cops will have another murder soon to motivate their paychecks.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 14:00
>>26
*sigh*
This discussion has been going like this for a while now:
Me: "The cop profession itself is inherently evil because it is meant to restrict the freedom of a nation in order to comply with its despots."
Idiot: "You've just had some bad cops happen to you."
Me: "No, the cop profession itself is inherently evil because it is meant to restrict the freedom of a nation in order to comply with its despots."
Idiot: "You've just had some bad cops happen to you."
Me: "No, the cop profession itself is inherently evil because it is meant to restrict the freedom of a nation in order to comply with its despots."
Idiot: "You've just had some bad cops happen to you."
Me: "No, the cop profession itself is inherently evil because it is meant to restrict the freedom of a nation in order to comply with its despots."
Idiot: "You've just had some bad cops happen to you."
Me: "No, the cop profession itself is inherently evil because it is meant to restrict the freedom of a nation in order to comply with its despots."
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Anonymous2011-03-27 14:23
When was the last time you saw a police serve any non-famous civilian outside your cop shows and your news?
I was coming off the off ramp of the highway coming home from work just Friday. The lane was slowing down because a police car was parked just off the turn with a non-police car. The officer was assisting the other person replace his front driver side tire. I'm not sure the extent of the helping but it was definitely not a ticket or drunk driving stop.
Also, on Wednesday I had to drive out to a client's site for work but the directions I had taken with me didn't perfectly go to the location. I had to ask around to find the place as I'd not even been the the town before. I'll leave you to fill in the blank about whom gave me more local directions.
Case 1 - Cops are not in any way meant to help people change tires. It's not in their job description unless you perhaps happen to live in Beverly Hills. Unless the car was blocking trafic, that cop was skipping work, maybe because he'd like to be a decent human being for a change. I trust there are towtruck companies where you live.
Case 2 - The same goes for this one, with the added comment that PR is important for cops and psychopaths in general. They're INSTRUCTED to act nice. It's an act. You're a sucker.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 14:50
>>30 maybe because he'd like to be a decent human being for a change
That's really funny. I thought you said that was not possible.
I have provided two tactile examples of the situation you have requested. I now challenge you to list your sources or, at least the vague origins, of information in regards to your knowledge of "no exceptions" police corruption and depravity.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 15:00
>>26
Where do I live?
I live in a country; in a state, even, where a non-violent young man named Oscar Grant was shot in the back by a cop as he was lying compliantly on his face on the ground with his hands handcuffed behind his back. His murderer got two years.
I live in a country where armed policemen routinely break into people's houses, destroy their property, threaten them, and take their children because of a plant.
The police at this point are no better than a gang.
Power corrupts. the power to carry a gun and kill people at your own discretion (you know you will get off, either very easily or completely) corrupts absolutely.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 15:09
>>27
You do know we don't have the death penalty in the UK? You don't? Well that's your whole counter argument fucked up, ain't it?
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Anonymous2011-03-27 15:11
>>29
You obviously live in a rich neighbourhood...
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Anonymous2011-03-27 15:20
>>32
It's my turn to be hypocritical: California is nonsense land. You'd do well to get out and construct a better image of how society works in the United States anywhere else. I won't even list personal exceptions or preferences: just anywhere else.
>>32
Well, I'm sorry for you then. Must be a bummer to live there.
I live in Norway. The police here doesn't carry guns, there are very little police brutality and they are generally very nice and socially conscious.
Even if [all] the policemen you've met have been rude and loud, it doesn't mean every policeman on earth are. In certain areas, police brutality is [much] higher than other places, where it might be virtually non-existant.
A tendency to generalise and prejudice are seldom a good quality for a man.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 15:22
>>35
How the fuck does that answer what i said in any way?
Are you saying that California is more fascistic than the rest of the US? Cause hey, I've got family in TX, and let me tell you, when it comes to cops, I'd waaaay rather be here.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 15:27
>>36
The thing is: they have power. And power does tend to corrupt.
But hey? Norway? Come on. You guys are doing pretty well with this stuff, I hear. No fair going on your really cool experience. Most of the rest of us have to deal with some pretty heavy shit from cops. Or just avoid them like I do.
Seriously, though, one walked by me the other day as I was sitting on a train with my kid. Her gun was at my eye level. I tell you what, and I am a pretty average person, not really the type they're out to get, but I did catch my breath and tense up until she walked by.
>>38
Well, all right. Maybe I shouldn't compare our police with yours, but I don't believe the majority of American cops are evil. To me, that's just plain nonsense. They aren't evil in Great Britain either.
SOME are, no doubt. But they usually get fired before they do too much harm. Or they go to prison. Bottom line, no one wants an evil police force. Not even the American government.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 15:36
>>31
I said "he'd LIKE to", but the minute he went back to actually WORKING as a cop, all that effort was pissed away. You can be Jesus and work as a cop, and still be cancer. You can be Jesus and dip random infants in acid all day long and still be cancer. It's your job that makes you cancer, not who you are or how well you do it.
Also fuck your challenge. I'm not here to tell cop-lovers my life's story or convince you. I won't mind if you want to carry on your delusions. You'll probably regret it, but that's not my problem. I'm just saying I'D be happy to kill cops any day in any way. I'd probably cheerfully sing "Another One Bites The Dust" while doing it too. Murderers and rapists can wait - first we have to get rid of the REAL vermin.
>>33
What, you think jail would be somehow different? Do you think they'd give more of a fuck about you there?
>>40
I'm afraid the "REAL vermin" here is you. Your views are destructive and not suited for a developed society.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 15:41
>>40
Check out MDC: "Millions of Dead Cops". Great band.
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Greek boy2011-03-27 15:42
I live 4 blocks away from the road where a cop shot a 15 yo kid. The cop had first chalenged the kids sitting there because the neighbourhood has a bad name. The kids probably yold him something he didn't like so the cop went away (the police center had asked him to disengage). He parked his car, he and his partner walked to the place they saw the kids, chalenged them again, shot alexis in cold blood and walked away like nothing happened without even calling an ambulance. Up to this point, you could say he's a psychopath that somehow managed to get through the police test, but listen to how the police reacted to this.
First of all, they announced that the cop was attacked for no reason with a molotov coctail and that he shot in self defence. Even though they hadn't questioned any witnesses yet and they hadn't searched the crime scene. Of course the trial showed this to be a lie. There were many witnesses since this was a very central part of athens. The police, even though they gave them their names and details themselves refused to question most. Instead they took their colleague's word for granted acting more like an organised gang than 'service to society'. In fact, if it wasn't for the month long riot, that cunt wouldn't be in jail and most greeks wouldn't be aware of how the police actualy operates.
Having lived here for a few years but also in other countries in europe, I can tell you that cops are a big business. They protect the rich from the poor. They keep the crime going to protect their business, and they perform some administrative work by providing you with a crime number where needed. Of course it is worth noting that being given a crime number is protection only for the rich. Only for those who are wealthy enough to have all their property insured so that the compensation proccess can go on.
In a case where I had something of mine stolen in front of a camera (in the UK), the police didn't want to waste any of their precious time to just have a look at the footage, see the licence plate of the vehicle and find his owner (the criminal). Instead they kept giving me excuses. After pushing them, their final word was that it would cost them too much money to look at the footage for a 'simple' (!) robbery because the contractors that have set up and are maintaining the camera system charge them too much for this 'servise'!!!
I could go on and give you thousants of examples but if you didn't get the point with these too, there is no point explaining any more.
On the other hand, I'had cops beat me,gas me for no reason swear at me and take me to court for swearing back and even steal from me. Twice. Luckily I'm still alive as the place I live is very heavily policed. Seriously I don't need any help or 'service' I prefer the crooks. And you know what? I still aknowledge them as humans, but humans who, no matter how dumb or mislead, have made a choice. The corruptive choice of having power. And as honast as I can be, I've never heard of anyone who has power and is not using it for his own benefit.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 15:43
>>39
But see, they don't get fired or go to prison in the US. I challenge you to find one case. They get off, over and over. It's like a gang. They watch each other's backs. It's really true, sadly.
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Greek boy2011-03-27 15:49
Bonus question: How many times have you seen the police provoke protesters or even break up peacufull protests?
PS. PEACEFULL PROTESTS that is. I'm not asking you about riots, although riots DO happen when the police tries to disperse a PEACEFULL demonstration.
PS2. Demostrations are the only legal way citizens have to oppose the government. Isn't it the job of the police to abolish this democratic right? Elections happen one day every few years depending on where you live. How do the citizens excercise democracy for the rest of the time?
>>43
Most democratic countries doesn't spend enough money on the police, partly because of ineffectiveness from within the system itself. And if the police doesn't have enough money to retain a acceptable force, why should they pay that private company a lot of money to buy the rights to that video tape?
Those money were better used to keep the police out in the streets.
Even in Norway, the worlds "wealthiest" state, the police doesn't get the resources and money they need. It's unacceptable, but that's how it is.
>>44
A quick search on Google didn't give me any sources to back my statement, which worries me. Perhaps you should take democratic measures to work against police brutality? At the very least, don't sink as low as those who exercise brutality.
>>45
It all depends on where you live. And if there are someplace "better" than yours, you should know that you could make your place that good og even better, too.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 16:04
>>47
Kudos to you for admitting when you're wrong. Not something one sees everyday, and causes me to respect/listen to what you have to say more.
We do try... but as you can see, the courts aren't really just, or helping here. What would you suggest?
I would suggest petitions, peaceful demonstrations and educating the public in a somewhat neutral way. Let them make up their own minds, but broadcast your message to a broad array of people.
I.e. I'm going to our capital on Wednesday to participate in a demonstration against EU directive 2006/24/EF. It will be a peaceful demonstration, just like it should be.
Sensible people don't listen to raging skinheads. That's common sense.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 16:18
>>49
True... raging skinheads, no.
The problem is, these really aren't reasonable people we are dealing with here. Remember George Bush? He had a lot of support, and a lot of people still like him. Reason.... they don't listen to reason. They really truly believe that might makes right, and that crimes are bad just because they are against the law. So that if you break the law (unjust or no), you deserve what you get. Whatever that may be. There are a lot of citizens who feel this way, which is why the police have the support they do.
I'm not sure anymore.... it's been a long hard fight against police brutality here. Every once in a while, a you-tube video comes out, and people get upset, but nothing really ever changes. Maybe our country is just too big...
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Anonymous2011-03-27 16:24
>>49
What is 2006/24/EF? When I look for information on it I always get lead back to 2006/24/EC, which is still a few letters away.
>>50
Yes, I certainly remember W. Most of the world do. And it's not a pleasant memory, let me tell you.
>There are a lot of citizens who feel this way, which is why the police have the support they do.
I believe that's because they don't know better. That's where you come in, educating them. It's a long and tough job, but someone's gotta do it, if you want change.
Remember, the law is for protecting the people, not the other way around. The law can be exchanged for new laws, citizens cannot.
I apologize for double-posting, but the replies come flying in too fast for me to se them before I click reply.
>>51
I'm sorry, I meant 2006/24/EC. 2006/24/EF is the Norwegian name.
It's better known as the Data Retention Directive. It gives the state authority to collect data from operators about when, where, to whom, how and our identity when we use the internet or (mobile) phone. The collected data may be stored for up to 24 months.
The Norwegian Parliament (Storting) is split about 50/50, and I'm going to demonstrate to try to convince our Conservative Party to let their representatives vote what they personally believe.
In my opinion, it's completely unacceptable and it will severely damage the democracy. In practical life, it won't affect anyone much, but the principles are clear as 95% alcohol: The freedom of speech and the freedom of press will suffer, should we allow our government to spy on us in such a manner.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 16:39
>>50
Okay, it's probably just me but it sounds like there's a trip-up point in the argument. On one hand, you specify that the police are too loose in their implementation of justice, there is not enough oversight, or that they are hired for their corruption status, and that has lead to decay in the concept of right and wrong, also allowing them to hide behind this draconic rulebook. On the other hand, here you angst that the structure of society conduct - law - is what makes crimes good or bad, which would mean any official that upheld "true" justice would have to have even more personal discretion in fulfilling his role and less solid accountability. This roundabouts back to the beginning of the thread with the cult of Justitia reference someone made. Can you help clarify this point for me, what you mean?
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Anonymous2011-03-27 16:50
>>55
Who, me?
Okay: I mean that just because you, let's say, consume an herb that is currently illegal in some places, that doesn't mean that cops have the right to do whatever they want to you. Like shoot you because you didn't move fast enough or whatever.
I do think that laws should be upheld, but I do not think that once you disobey _ any_ law, you are then "on the wrong side of the law" and ought to be subject to whatever horrific ways of handling you that the current policeman decides on. However, many people do think this.
Many, many people think that if you break the law, even non-violently, them the cops have the right to do pretty much whatever they want to you. I think cops should also be subject to laws, and remember that we are supposedly innocent until proven guilty.
I am not saying i think that they should selectively enforce laws based on their consciences, if that's what you thought.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 16:59
>>56
Yeah, that's what I was misunderstanding from what you said. Thanks for clearing it up.
>>54
Now that does sound curious. I admit I that may be me curious in regards to the exact nature of the flow of this identity information, the spirit of the bill, but I agree the operational approach of the act is terribly undesirable. Best of lucky to you on Wednesday.
>>40
Are you really so dense you can't spurt anything but anti-police rhetorics? Man, you really must have a chip on your shoulder or you just want to go mob rush someone's peaceful protest up and don't want cops pulling you away. Either that or you're just paranoid about something.
You just really suck as a troll. Please hand your douchbag facial hair in at the nearest KFC. I'll help you along by saging this thread.
cops are paid to use VIOLENCE. sure, they'll ask politely first but if you don't obey them and follow them to your jail cell they'll fucking shoot the shit out of you even if all you did was steal a cookie. there's no excuses for doing this for a living. ACAB
now, you can say things like: "well over here in lollypop land cops don't even carry guns so whoop-tee-fucking-doo" but you know that's bullshit. you know that if you disobey them they will fucking beat you into submission.
people who don't struggle never notice their chains... seems like nowadays they'll even deny being chained up.
>>63
Why would I disobey them in the first place? I am familiar with our laws, and I seldom break any of them. And I have enough confidence in our legal system, and there are so few murders of justice, that I to a great extent trust the courts to make decisions according to the law.
It's rather unlikely that I would resist being arrested, should the police or any legal body wish to do so.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 18:29
>>64
But, hypothetically, if you did resist for some reason, or if they thought you did, because you limped, or for some reason did no comply as quickly as they wanted you to, or if you were passively non-compliant (think Gandhi) do you think they should have the right to injure or kill you?
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Greek boy2011-03-27 18:41
>>64
Hey Heisann. First of all thumbs up for being such a civilised speaker.
Look at it this way. The police is a monopoly of violence. It prohibits anyone else from using violence and the do it with more violence. I can understand that you have a much different experience with cops than I have, but I'm not breaking any laws either. It is true that europeans cops are much more civilised than greek cops, but can't you see that they are still playing a submission game? At the UK I noticed that cops were far more polite and professional than greeks, but that was only because they were properly trained to put you into submission in a polite way. Greek cops do it by being loud cunts, british by being polite. The fact is that in both cases, if you don't go by their rules, or try to stir the conversation the way you feel, even if you do it with proper arguements, will usualy lead to violence (unless you're wearing a suit). That's because they are not trained to talk and even if they were, there is no mechanism behind them to support any kind of conversation. It is just a typical procedure were you are being checked for your submission. If you don't accept their authority, that's even if you haven't done anything wrong and they know it, you're fucked. This is what brings violence and hatred for cops. We're not some madmen who hate other people just beccause they are wearing a uniform.
I've posted these before but I think as many people as possible need to see them. These two experiments really show a lot about human behaviour and how we interact with power and authority.
So yes, I AM contradicting myself. Cops are normal human beings, but they are so fucked up with authority (maybe not from their first year but definately before retiring) and misslead by those they are really protecting.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 19:02
>>64 >>65 >>66
That's stupid, you are all thinking in terms of collectives like a bunch of illogical socialists. Police are individuals and this is more significant than "only a few are bad, don't generalise, bla bla bla", it means the administrative situation is more complex which also means there are more options than some sliding scale of how much physical force cops should be allowed to use.
We should use a multi-tier solution relying on both rigid command structured policies and flexible guidelines that rely on police initiative and autonomy in combination with new educational techniques, and it should be all based around the political atom, the individual. Science has upgraded to quantum physics, we've discovered classical physics is just an approximation and one not accurate enough to allow us to apply quantum phenomena on our scale, it's time social science caught up.
Take for example the stanford prison experiment, of course we should place limits on police powers, we should also factor in powers which allow them to do their jobs more effectively, on top of these we should take different approaches, we should go right ahead and show them the stanford prison experiment and use the results to prepare them for when they are tempted to show hubris and go on a power-trip. We need to show them that the guards in this experiment were acting like animals, like children and that their job is in large part to overcome hubris, frustration and hate and other emotions as well like empathy, maybe even love though I don't know where that fits in. Just to do their jobs rationally and logically.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 19:12
>>67
I think I mostly agree with you, but your "collective/socialist" comment is A: childish, and B: totally unfounded and unrelated. We are not discussing systems of government in this thread. We are discussing the police.
Learn to distinguish.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 19:17
>>64
people like you, who blindly obey any and all authority... you have this way of angering me to the depth of my soul. you say it yourself... "well whoop-tee-fucking-doo why would you ever disobey a man in a uniform?". i'm pretty sure if they told you to wear a yellow star you'd say "why yes sir yellow is my favorite color, should i put it on my left or right arm?".
please try to realize that the world is bigger than lollipop land. that certain things have happened in this world before you were born. there are legitimate reasons to disobey.
Max Weber said in Politics as a Vocation that a necessary condition for an entity to be a state is that it retains such a monopoly. His expanded definition was that something is "a 'state' if and insofar as its administrative staff successfully upholds a claim on the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence (German: das Monopollegitimen physischen Zwanges) in the enforcement of its order."[1] [2]
According to Weber, the state is the source of legitimacy for any use of violence.[citation needed] The police and the military are its main instruments, but this does not mean that only public force can be used: private force (as in private security) can be used too, as long as it has legitimacy derived from the state.
Weber applied several caveats to this basic principle.
Weber intended his statement as an observation, stating that it has not always been the case that the connection between the state and the use of violence has been so close. He uses the examples of feudalism, where private warfare was permitted under certain conditions, and of Church courts, which had sole jurisdiction over some types of offenses, especially heresy (from the religion in question) and sexual offenses (thus the nickname "bawdy courts").
The actual application of violence is delegated or permitted by the state. Weber's theory is not taken to mean that only the government uses violence, but that the individuals and organizations that can legitimize violence or adjudicate on its legitimacy are precisely those authorized to do so by the state. So, for example, the law might permit individuals to use violence in defense of self or property, but in this case, as in the example of private security above, the ability to use force has been granted by the state, and only by the state.
One implication of the above is that states that fail to control the use of coercive violent force (e.g., those with unregulated militias) are essentially not functional states. Another is that all such "functional" states function by reproducing the forms of violence that sustain existing social power relationships, and suppressing the forms of violence that threaten to disrupt them.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 19:25
>>68
Well there are many discussions of those issues on this board, I thought I'd throw it out there. Perhaps I have been ironically hypocritical, by tarring all 3 of you with the same brush I may have tarred an innocent, in the same way the police treat innocents as they treat insane junkies or the same way people tar all police as being power-tripping thugs.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 19:28
>>69
YES!!! Thank-you!!
I am so tired of people acting like there is never any legitimate reason to break the law!!
But, >>64 seems more naive than powertripping about this.
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Greek boy2011-03-27 19:28
>>49
[quote]Let them make up their own minds, but broadcast your message to a broad array of people.[/quote]
Yup. You're absolutely right on this one. That's exactly what I'm generaly trying to do.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 19:32
>>71
Remember, all of us (except the Norwegian) are anonymous, so for all you know, we may have agreed with you in the past.
Gotta say though, the extreme anti-socialist agenda does seem a little... lock-step-ish...
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742011-03-27 19:33
oh, yeah, also non-anon; greek boy.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 19:34
>>70 http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/sense2.htm For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.
Lesser evils are awesome, they're not really lesser evils at all! You point your finger and call them evil but morality depends on what is better, not what is best, evil being omnipresent, lesser evil is what is good. Lesser evil is good.
There is no such thing as anarchists anymore, these are socialists, marxists and so on. They are rioting over cuts in government funding and immigration. These sorts of liberals are bent on the utter destruction of everything good strong and successful in this world.
You can smoke marijuana (which is illegal and very rarely is someone charged) or openly be an illegal immigrant (which is illegal although if you're a white illegal immigrant they may take action) in front of most American police officers and they'll do absolutely nothing.
But if you show one the middle finger (which is not illegal), if you say the N-word (which is not illegal), or if you refuse to speak to one (which is protected by the Bill of Rights) they arrest you for some made up charge and the only way out of it is with a million dollar (usually Jewish) lawyer.
Contrary to popular belief with these "small town bumpkin sheriffs" in Hollywood movies the police on average are quite liberal.
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Anonymous2011-03-27 23:41
Have the coppers cleared out of this thread yet?
This is why we can't have nice things: We don't ban coppers and cop lovers from the site.
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Anonymous2011-03-28 1:42
POLICEMEN: Always nice and friendly, supposed to "serve and protect", and always portrayed as goodguy heroes in Hollywood.
PEOPLE: Invent phrases such as "Fuck Tha Police" and "All Cops Are Bastards (ACAB)".
QUESTION: How come? If cops are so friendly and lovely, how come everybody but faggots are upset with them for some reason? Shouldn't they LIKE having heroes that care for them?
COP PROPAGATION LOGIC: That's just because there aren't ENOUGH cops. If there was ENOUGH hero cops in every street corner, with ENOUGH funding, people probably wouldn't complain. All they want is MORE cops. That's why they hate us. Did you see anyone complain about the police utopia that the combine had going in Half-Life 2 before Gordon fucked things up? You didn't see anyone complain there.
IDIOTS: Hurr durr, cops are heroes. I've never seen the real world outside - just newscasts and movies.
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Greek boy2011-03-28 6:17
>>76
I think that's just a twisted theory about good and evil where you start by accepting every thing evil and assume the least evil as good. I read your link even though it was quite long and even though the writter is right on many things, he's plain wrong on others. He's wrong because he uses a one way street logic, and he doesn't look at other options. For example, federalism was a main idea of the political system of native americans. Being an englishman that quite possibly at the time considered the natives as lesser humans and/or slaves, he couldn't see the option of small manageable communities under a common confederation. Anyway, the fact is that his writting at the time it was done is excelent and very progressive.
Weber's theory on the monopoly of violence doesn't clash with paine's 'common sense'. Weber's theory is an observation. Paine's writting was more propagandistic and of course non-scientific. Both display the necessity of power from different perspectives. I don't consider myself a fanatic and I'm not anyone's fan. I can read from marx to hittler and draw usefull conclusions all the way. Personaly I dissagree about the necessity of power and submission but I accept that any state is founded on these. That's why idealy I don't want states to exist. Still I'm realistic and I know well that unless the people are all concious about the way the system works and willing to change it, any abolition of the state would be a) against the interests of the public, b) totalitarian (since the new group to hold the monopoly on violence wouldn't even have basic laws to obey) and c) a very good reason for interational intervention and theft of public wealt (see lybia).
Therefore, recognising that the police (the state) holds the monopoly on violence is nothing but the first step. Abolishing it is a looooong way away and it involved informing the public and shaping conciences in a massive scale. Living in a corrupt, bankrupt country that is probably the largest buyer of teargas in the world shows me that this massive scale change of conciousness is not only doable but unavoidable under certain socioeconomic circumstances. Simply, there is a tipping point in every society. Once the majotiry of people realise that the system doesn't work, change is not an option - it's simply unavoidable. In the last year I've seen grannies throw rocks at the police, thousants of people of every age shouting @burn the parliament' and 'thieves thieves' and politicians (of every party)can no longer go out because as soon they are recognised they attacked by the public. Therefore, the reality I live in right now is very very different from what you guy see in your countries.
Fuck man, I was stopped a couple of months ago by a person on a wheelchair who was practically asking me to bomb the politician and calling everyone else who had legs chicken for not having done it yet. And I had to tell him that this is not the way things should be done. Right now there is a massive and very matture public 'debate' about what we need to do and I can see that nobody wants to go back to the system that brought us here. People are becoming very informed, my 84 year old godmother knows all about bilderberg meetings, the role of goldman sachs, economic hitmen etc.
I feel like i'm sitting on a massive bomb the will blow up the EU and the world economy :/
>>81 We don't ban coppers and cop lovers from the site
I should think the thread would even more deplorable if you refused the existence of conversation involving more than one viewpoint. tl;dr, nope, one is still here. Any questions?
And I question the existence of police on 4chan as active members. They've probably got us datamined for one reason or another, yeah, but users?
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Anonymous2011-03-28 7:04
>>82 POLICEMEN: Always nice and friendly, supposed to "serve and protect", and always portrayed as goodguy heroes in Hollywood.
Until all of a sudden there is a policeman who is a villain.
COP PROPAGATION LOGIC: That's just because there aren't ENOUGH cops. If there was ENOUGH hero cops in every street corner, with ENOUGH funding, ...
Just a heads-up. You're peddling to the passion-driven ignoramuses on your side of the argument, not your assumed opposition. In other words, it's not a position of argument, it's one of disregard.
IDIOTS: ... I've never seen the real world outside - just newscasts and movies.
Or, you know, actually interacted with them.
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Anonymous2011-03-28 7:21
>>84
I have seen this in forums before and in the case of a forum owner I know, the police investigator admitted he was 'fishing' info on his site himself (he told the owner the pseudonym he used).
Also it is official that the israeli army has internet taskforces. They were used during the 'freedom floatilla' incident when israeli commandos attacked a vessel that was carrying humanitarian aid and activists to gaza killing a number of them.
>>65
No, of course not! >>66
That's true. Proper training is essential for a good police force. But I don't think cops are cops because they are evil. They probably take the job because they want to help out, and then later they may become wicked. >>67
I am perfectly aware that the problem lies deep down. But if I were to take those directly into account here, it would make my posts unnecessarily long and complicated. >>69
I certainly do not "blindly obey any and all authority". I will of course consider if the authority is trustworthy before I let them handcuff me. E.g. If some uniformed guy suddenly knocks on my door, I would probably fetch my shotgun instead of being robbed or killed or whatever by that guy – who probably was a criminal. If I know I haven't done anything wrong, that is. >>70
Have you tried studying the opposing view? You don't get far if you only read the things you want to read. We have to see this problem from different perspectives. That is essential to really understand the underlying problem. >>72
There are heaps of legitimate reasons to break the law. E.g. civil disobedience in a tyrannic regime. And I wouldn't let the communists seize power in a coup here either. I would fight them, like I would fight any who tries to undermine me. >>76
All people have evil in them and all people are capable of doing evil. Any one of us could make a hydrogen bomb and blow up some important place.
The question is why would you do it. Most people don't really have a reason at all. >>78
That depends on how you define anarchists. >>80
You are describing a serious problem. That is many policemen let their personal feelings dominate their work. Such behaviour is highly unprofessional and should be punished. >>81
That's rubbish, and you know it! Don't post rubbish. >>82
Here in Norway, we have a saying: Tomme tønner romler mest. Loosely translated, it's something like: Empty barrels make the most noise. What that means is that someone who is upset about something, is likely to make more noise than those who aren't upset. That's why "people" make such phrases. The "people" are really only a handful compared to the rest. >>85
OK, I have to admit I have never been in a big police drama. Have you?
Tho I have witnessed some pretty lame ass behaviour from both policemen AND suspects.
Why is this thread still here? It's clear the OP/whoever it is repeatedly hating on Police has some kind of irrational personal grudge against the police. Maybe he came across a bent cop once and decided that all cops are bent and abusive? Maybe a relative or friend was arrested by police, and he sided with his relative/friend even though they did the wrong thing and deserved to be arrested but he couldn't bring himself to realise this? Maybe he's just an anarchic troublemaker or unsub who's done time and thought that regardless he should be allowed to commit any acts, regardless of how morally wrong they and thinks the police are an obstacle in his way, and hence treats them with disdain and hostility when the subject is even mentioned?
Or maybe he's just an annoying troll who's trying to provoke us into some kind of reaction he can feed off? Either way, he's the kind of material the agents from "Criminal Minds" would love to psychoanalyse and see what makes him tick.
Guaranteed he'll reply to this with some kind of hostility and insults.
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Anonymous2011-03-28 11:49
>>88
Actualy, 'he' will reply with a true story that anyone capable of using a translator can understand and double check. It is the story of the forum owner I mentioned earlier. (>>86)
This guy (he's 64yo now and his name is panagiotis bixos) is a musician and he was working in a hotel in a greek island. At some point he noticed that the hotel owner was involved in human trafficking and that the head of police of the island was part of the gang. Since he couldn't go to the local police station, he came to athens and sued the trafficking gang. What happened next is that the cop and the rest of the gang was found innocent after intimidating the witnesses.
Later on, the police raided the guy's appartment and charged him for child pornography. It was a badly rigged trial didn't pass through court so panagiotis was found innocent. The police tried to base all the accusations on policemen's testimonies that they saw 'proof' but even though even now, 12 years later they still have the hard drives, they haven't managed to provide the courts of any proof of child pornography. The prosecutor didn't accept the court testimony and somehow brought it back to court for a second and a third time. Greece was found guilty a couple of months ago for failing to provide him with a fair trial but panagiotis still has to go through courts every now and then, only to be found innocent. He is economicaly exhausted, he got cancer and heart disease from worrying too much and the only reason he's still with us is because of the support of hundreds of people that think this is proposterous and support him in every way they can (from legal support, to money to support the forum servers).
I tried to find news articles in english for his story but didn't find any. Still there are hundreds of articles in greek that you can translate on google.
Second true story: The struggle of the citizens of keratea. A place just outside athens where the government decided to build a dump. The government, clearly serving the interests of the rich against the poor are trying to built a kind of dump that will be illegal under EU regulations in 2 years time in land that still belongs to to private owners and hasn't yet bought. The government sent the contractor with his excavators followed by dozens of teams of riot police to protect the excavators from the rightful owners of the land. The people of the village have united in a common struggle to protect their place from the illegal activities of the government. They took the case to court and asked for protective measures which was granted. Still, the government didn't not pull the riot police away and the contractor did not remove his buldozers from the private land. Instead, the police broke the citizens' cars and gave them parking tickets even though they were parked legally. This was the reaction of the citizens of keratea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnV-Md8OchA
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the riot police beat up the citizens on the first day, inluding breaking the head of the mayor of keratea.
Anyway, you can look up the validity of all i'm saying by simply typing keratea or κερατεα on youtube. You'll find hundreds of hours or rioting between normal citizens and riot police. Footage that no news network will show.
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Anonymous2011-03-28 11:58
PS. A pregnant lady dropped her child because the police charged into the village and shot teargas at her back yard. They were shooting teargas even at people looking at them from their balconies and they were shooting directly in order to hit innocent people with the tear gas projectiles. Also the secred police broke into citizens houses without warrants threatening them at gun point and beating them without arresting them in the end. Greeks are not mad. The police here IS VERY FUCKED UP!!!
>>89
If what you're saying is true, I feel very sorry for you and the people of Greece. I urge you to stand up for you rights.
That kind of police faggotry should be taken to the Strasbourg court!
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Anonymous2011-03-28 14:27
>>89
Yes well that shit happens. Doesn't mean ALL police are a bunch of oppressive losers who serve the rich's interests.
If all he can do is spurt that copypasta story each time, then he pretty falls into the points I made earlier about him just having a grudge against the police and throwing up that same excuse.
He's just a butthurt manchild with his own self-justified hate against law enforcement in general
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Anonymous2011-03-28 15:50
>>93
Ten people in this thread hates cops. One or at most two loves them. May I suggest Minecraft or Gaia for you homos, where "I" won't bother you?
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Anonymous2011-03-28 16:27
>>94
Ooooh, big words. You come across all scary and aggressive. I bet it makes you sound like a big man when you hurl such venomous abuse around.
Bone shaking stuff indead. Stay Classy.
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Anonymous2011-03-28 16:39
>>94
I forgot how the cop hating gays love to spurt shit when they're confronted by logic or reason. More power to you I guess?
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Anonymous2011-03-28 16:42
police is teh enemy of the ppl, we should give all power to the army like in egypt
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Anonymous2011-03-28 16:46
>>97
And then what would happen? Gangs with the most guns taking control. By your logic they would end up being the police only worse.
Like I keep saying, most people don't have a problem with the police. Most don't do shit that gets them in jail. OP or whoever it is spreading hate obviously lives in a shitty part of the world and had a bad situation. He and the others on here spreading hate are the minority of people who have a problem with the police. Everyone else just gets on with their lives.
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Anonymous2011-03-28 18:20
>>88
OP here.
I didn't post any responses after the first post i was just genuinely curious to hear a discussion on the topic of police
>>92
I think he is going to. He's now being helped by an NGO called EPSE. They monitor if greece is obiding with the helsinki accords, so I'm guessing he's taking it there. I think the reason he hasn't gone so far is because his case needs to be considered finished by the greek courts before he can go to stratsburg. The greek courts are probably delaying on purpuse. Greece has already been found guilty for not providing him with a fair trial (a couple of moths ago) and he was compensated with something stupid like 5000 euros.
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Anonymous2011-03-28 19:24
>>93
Nah, you just love men in uniform. That's all.
They're a bunch of Jew-controlled nigger-lovers who turn a blind eye to real crime and arrest innocent people.
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Anonymous2011-03-28 20:24
Not a crime when niggers attack whites, after all niggers are a protected race and of course, the white probably deserved it because he was a racist, mirite?
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Anonymous2011-03-28 23:38
>>93
You are one dumb fuck.
I hope you get harassed by cops real soon so you'll see what it's like.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 1:50
>>100
I wouldn't call you a master troll. You're just a psycho getting paid a cop salary from a nations tax dollars to propagate a police state on behalf of our despots. Your very existance is a trolling, and yet you fail so hard at it.
Give away your gun to the people, and let them show you what they REALLY think of "being protected" by you and your kind. You continuing to argue here instead just shows that you really don't believe in your own words.
Give away your gun.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 5:35
>>107
The more you spurt that kind of shit, the more it just comes across you had a bad experience with cops and you've tarnished them with the same brush. Seriously, if you're that close minded I hope whatever bent cops you happened to run afowl of pay you another visit. Otherwise, stop associating everyone in a single profession with a few bad apples and give it a rest for 10 minutes. It's just getting tired.
Either that or you're the greatest troll ever.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 6:17
even when i meet a friendly cop i still hate them. acab. all cops are is soldiers in a class warfare. feel free to think they're on your side. they're not. cops are here to enforce the laws of the ruling class.
of course i'm sure you'll say "hey we have a democracy so there's no ruling class here!!! everyone is equal!! coppers on our side! yay!", but that just shows how delusional you are. the government is not on the side of the people, the government is in it for themselves. the proof is everywhere.
this is also, i think, perhaps on of the biggest mistakes people make: they believe the politicians when they say that they want to make things better. they don't. they just want money and power and more of it. they are corrupt. don't envy them, don't try to be them, don't waste too much fucking time on them. get yourself away from them. all their shit is falling down, don't get caught in that vortex.
>>110
"cops are here to enforce the laws of the ruling class."
So you're admitting you just hate cops because you're a poorfag who can't pay them off to do your dirty work.
I'm happy people like you are a rare, isolated case. Either that or you work in Zeus' store in Die Hard 3. The NWA must be very proud of of your "fuck the police" mentality, home boy.
Run along now. Havn't you got some cop killing to do?
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Anonymous2011-03-29 7:18
Police forces are there to protect the lower and middle classes from criminals (higher classes could easily afford their own, private, security). They are the only thing standing between us and a pack of niggers who are just waiting to rape our white daughters and trample our white lawns.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 7:35
>>114
That's the point. So you're not only anti-cop, but you're also a racist? Figures.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 7:54
>>115
What, no. I'm a lower class socialist. It's mainly the criminals, anarchists, and football fans who are against cops.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 8:13
>>116
which is what that guy (and allegidly 10 other people but probably him just spamming this thread) is I'm willing to bet. I even thought he was you because everyone's anon. But the way you went on about calling yourself "white" and talking about "white daughters" like it meant something more than it should which made think you are racist
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Anonymous2011-03-29 8:33
>>117
I see, the pack of wild niggers trampling white lawns etc is just a silly world4ch meme.
>>120
What the fuck you talking about now? Noone even takes you seriously anymore. We're all just trolling you and milking as much "I hate the police because I think they're all evil and block me from being a wannabe hooligan" butthurt out of you as we can. You're the only one who's taking seriously, therefore you just across as rather pathetic sounding hoodlum who probably doesn't spend a dime on anything but your internet account so you can pirate shit and twitter your fellow anarchist bumbuddies about where the next peaceful march is that you can mob bomb
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Anonymous2011-03-29 10:16
>>114
The last time I checked cops are the thing PREVENTING us from dealing with niggers waiting to rape our white daughters and trample our white lawns.
>>122
Oh boy - here we go.
It's obvious you are racist yourself considering you think the police are there to stop you playing out your favourite American History X fantasies. No wonder you hate them. They stop you beating up those blacks.
>>124
And how is describing what you really are, and in no way mentioned any kind of racist accusations >>121 am I "proving" your point. You're doing what they call "clutching at straws"
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Anonymous2011-03-29 12:06
>>125
I called you a smear campaigner and you replied by smearing. That's as much 'proving my point' as you can get...
Obvious troll is too obvious
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Anonymous2011-03-29 12:08
>>122
Without police, criminal gangs would take over and "police" the streets themselves. And unlike our current systemn, you can't change the policies of a criminal gang by voting them out of power...
>>126
Takes one to know one.
kay, so how is reacting to you saying they protect the "niggers" smearing? Secondly all your replies to this thread and others have revolved around "I hate the police. They're all eval. We must get rid of the police because they'll beat you in a locked room" shit that comes across as trolling because everytime you say it, someone gets provoked and your repeat the cycle.
So are you really just going to carry on saying that stuff or can you just fuck off to some anti-cop forums where everyone will shower you with praise suck your cock for telling what they want to hear?
Because you're getting none of that here.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 12:42
>>121
"We're all just trolling you"
Don't you mean "*I* am just trolling you"? So if you're a troll, that means that you don't REALLY love cops, and that everyone agrees.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 12:48
>>127
Without police, there would be no criminal gangs. There would be no "criminals" - no sinners against your insane goddess. Instead of soulless cultists stalking the streets, we'd have gangs with some semblence of HONOR and DIGNITY, fighting for REAL things. We'd LIVE, and we could buy guns with which to defend ourselves like in the old west, which worked fine until you disgusting lot showed up with your faggot Justitia religion.
Off with her head!
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Anonymous2011-03-29 13:20
>>128
Now I get it. You think I'm >>110 don't you? No, I'm Greek boy.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 14:57
>>130
Oh boy, he really thinks there'd be no crime if there were no cops. He really is dense. He thinks cultists actually exist? Double dense.
Don't worry guys, he's just out of touch with reality.
And you prove that considering people can buy guns for personal use. Ever heard of a 3 day waiting limit?
And I'm atheist, so I don't know where religion comes into it.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 15:45
>>132
No, you are the one who's "dense" and "out of touch with reality".
There'd be no crime if there was no crime. "Crime" is the word that the cult of Justitia uses for sin. It is religious dogma. It doesn't actually exist in the real world - just in the minds of insane cultists.
Also, whether or not ones country has liberal gun laws or not, the cult doesn't allow us to use them for practically anything. Even if we use them for selfdefense, we risk inquisitions designed to distort truth, and we might still getting punished for sins the cultists simply invent.
Atheism doesn't mean denial that religion exists.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 15:52
To *everyone* (although my gut says it's one person) who runs around calling "troll" everytime they don't like someone's views:
We're onto you. There are way more of us that have problems with cops than you think. You can't back up your reasons for liking them with reason, so you resort to name-calling. That's all your little "troll" routine is: name-caling.
Now run along and let the adults have a serious discussion.
>>132
I'd like to see you prove that. You keep telling yourself that. If there no law enforcers, there'd still be groups and individuals who would terrorise people, throw their weight around and take everything. You can keep telling yourself no cops: no criminals, but that's as logical as communism.
Please, don't explode and tell me Communism and police have anything in common. They don't: it's an example.
>>134
Me? Childish? Your anti-cop mentality is equally childish. You're still a minority, so what do I care anymore.
I'll tell you what? I'll leave this little troll thread and stop arguing with you. Because the only successful troll is one that keeps getting attention.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 17:03
>>135
don't let the door hit your ass on the way out
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Anonymous2011-03-29 18:28
>>135
That's why we need Jesus in our lives: To protect us from SATAN! If we would renounce Jesus as our Lord and Savior, Satan would GET US! Keep us safe, Jesus - amen.
Does this sound familiar?
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Anonymous2011-03-29 18:31
>>132
Textbook propaganda. You need to get better to be convincing.
Crime has never been defeated in any society utilising a police force. On the other hand, there are a few examples of societies with no police and no crime.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 20:17
On the other hand, there are a few examples of societies with no police and no crime.
But nothing regarding the latter condition being a product of the former case.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 20:32
>>140
There are also indeed examples where everyone are given weapons and this is the direct CAUSE of there being no violence.
...and before you ask what that example might be and ask me for sources and answers that will make you look like a retard, think about what it could be for awhile. Think of it as a solvable riddle.
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1392011-03-29 20:55
>>140
Let's say I'm comparing a theory that has been tried and never worked (even though it seems possible at first), with an observation that has been proved (although it sounds impossible in the societies we currently live in).
My conclusion is that there are causes for crime - usualy social. Police suppression focuses on the effects. Societies that have been violentless (in which for example there has never been any reported homicides or rapes) have done the opposite. They focused on ethics - being fair to each other.
That's why I consider the police a sad excuse for crime fighting.
From there on you can make your own conclusions. You may see this as utter bulshit but honestly I couldn't care less.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 21:35
>>142
Which crimeless societies are we talking about actually? if you can name some of them chronologically, start from Hammurabi and go forwards.
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Anonymous2011-03-29 22:25
>>143 Anabaptist societies for example like the amish, the brethren and the hutterites also the kibutz had very little if no crime. Watch zeitgeit:moving forward. I haven't seen all of it but it mentions what we're talking about in the beginning.
Person A as an atheist: "I'll find him, punch him in the face and take 10 dollars from him, and then maybe kick him when he's down so he doesn't do it again."
Person A as a justitian (Justitia fanatic):
"I'll gasp, and I'll go and tell my church, and hope that they listen to my plight, and that they believe me, and care enough to send the inquisition on the sinner, who I then hope will honestly confess his sins out of the goodness of his heart, and then I hope that my church spends lots of dollars on arranging a trial for him, and I really hope that the sinner villingly shows up at my church and bows down before my god Justitia as his god and master, and submits to his punishment."
Justitians are fucking nuts.
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Anonymous2011-03-30 7:04
Anyway, back near the topic, even if you get rid of the police on a wide scale, leaving no method to reconstitute the organization, there are enough people who are going to find a local lack uncomfortable enough to believe it warrants mobilizing their own version of a task force. Eventually, that cascades back into the original organization that was eliminated.
How do you handle a situation where citizens themselves locally recreate the body of "law upholders," providing you've already established your ideal in one fell swoop somehow and eliminated conventional policing bodies?
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Anonymous2011-03-30 7:13
>>144
I've heard that BECAUSE the kibbutz had such little crime, the state sent crimminals there so that they learn to live socialy in a working community without residing to crime and antisocial behaviour.
There is no point punishing crimminals. It doesn't improve society or fight crime. Even innocent people who were sent to jail came out trained crimminals. I see prisons as crime colleges, where crimminals improve their crime techniques, socialise with other crimminals and set up gangs that operate from inside the prisons. I seriously don't see any point in this other than revenge. It is a highly ineffective system that needs to change.
The whole idea begind imprisoning crimminals is correction. It simply doesn't work in practice. Instead it is a self sustainable system of crime, policing and corruption. It is a working economy that includes dozens of sectors like security(security systems, police, armoured doors/cars etc), constuction and the legal system (lawyers, judges etc.). So basically what we see is a mechanism similar to modern medicine. Where the drugs produced fight the symptoms and not the causes so that they appear to cure the patient but ensuring that he/she will need treatment again quite soon securing him as customer.
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1482011-03-30 7:14
To avoid confusion again: that was me, Greek boy
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Anonymous2011-03-30 7:37
>>147
thats a very good point and i think it comes down to how the police were gotten rid of. whether or not it was because of the people themselves that the police disappeared or whether it was just lack of a government. and i also suppose it depends a lot on the area in which you are in and what kind of people you are surrounded by.
In any case if the citizens started a new task force it may for some time be somewhat connected to the people. atleast more than it is now.
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Anonymous2011-03-30 7:39
>>147
There is a huge difference between insane soulless Justitia cultists, and sane people. Insane cultists fight for their insane goddess while sane people fight for real things. It won't matter how bad some people would handle their own liberation: We're still better off without the oppression from insane cultists worshipping an insane goddess.
Still, you don't get it: Nobody needs to "uphold the law". Nobody needs to uphold the Torah, the Bible or the justitian religious text. The world works just fine without religion. Nobody needs "taskforces". If someone is wronged, it's up to him and people who cares to avenge him.
Short commentary: What you see in the first video is not the work of anarchists or leftist. It is prety much ALL the citizens of keratea. Even the mayor and the priest. Anarchists have offered to help but the citizens are keeping their distances because they are afraid of agents provocateur (secret police that may have infiltrated anarchist groups or portray themselves as anarchists). The citizens are attacking the police that are trying to open their block and allow the constuctor's bulldozers to pass. Please note that the greek courts have ordered the works to stop until their legality is judged. Therefore, the constructor and police ARE THERE ILLEGALY and the citizens of keratea who are protecting their land DO HAVE THE LAW ON THEIR SIDE. Except that the law cannot be enforced when the police are breaking it themselves. 4 pigs were harmed during the shooting of this video :p
On the fourth video, the witness says that riot police went there at 7 o'clock in the morning and started breaking the citizens' cars started beating people and gassed the shit out of everyone. There is a vendeta between the police and the citizens of keratea because the police have clearly been beaten both at courts and on the streets and they simply cannot accept this.
>>152 There is a vendeta between the police and the citizens of keratea because the police have clearly been beaten both at courts and on the streets and they simply cannot accept this.
this is disgusting, i wish you all the strength you need in battle.
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Anonymous2011-03-30 15:01
>>147 Good point indeed. >>150 also but a good base for further discussion. Personally, I would agree with 150 that it is totally a matter of how it would be done and the society it would happen in. I will keratea for example because even though i'm not from there, I have been watching it and I'm quite familiar with the situation.
Imagine being a thief in keratea wanting to break into a house. There is absolutely no police in town but the citizens are organised and have set up warning mechanisms. They know eachother and each other's phone numbers because of their struggle. They are united and in case somebody sees you, you know he can imediately call his neighbours and that they WILL support work together to catch you. Even if you do get away, The citizens are very aware of who's who because the police has sent undercover cops trying to infiltrate and gather information. Chances are that they would stop you if you acted strange and find the loot in which case you would wish you had never been there in the first place. If you had to drive away, all the roads are closed by roadblocks controlled by the citizens. There is no wonder why there is currently no crime in keratea. Even though the citizens have not really bothered to organise their own police, they still detter crime by being united, social and by actially knowing who lives next to them. So basically, the existence of a common cause/enemy had the effect of bringing everyone together and at the same time solving some problem which, personally, i believe have deep social roots. Therefore, I think that by focussing on the real causes of crime rather than suppressing its symptoms might bring much better results for much less money.
And to be honest, if the state was activelly taking the right measures to fight the causes of crime (social imbalances IMO), I wouldn't mind a properly trained police for a transitional period as long as they did serve and protect PUBLIC interest rather corrupt private interests.
>>151
You are a weird one. I do agree with you but the whole parallelism between law and the justicia cult just weirds me out a bit. Even in that I agree that they act like a cult. I'd call them an organised gang in the case of greece.
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Anonymous2011-03-30 19:52
hang the commie bastards
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Anonymous2011-03-31 15:20
New episode in the keratea serial: A team of 25 riot police, with no previous provocation, walk through the town at quarter to 4am(nobody harms them or even bothers them), go to the citizens block where there was a guard of 9 people including the secondary mayor, and beat the shit out of them. The secondary mayor did tell them who he was and also that he suffers from heart disease and the cops replied 'none of you is leaving this place alive'. The cops leaving broke the citizens cars and threw teargas grenades inside hoping to set them on fire (fortunately they didn't burn but there's no way anyone's driving them for a while).
This is absolutely true. You can verify the story by translating it on any greek online newspaper.
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Anonymous2011-03-31 15:55
>>156
so what's the plan? what are the citizens of keratea going to do? 20 people protesting in north africa and i have to endure weeks of propaganda about it but copper-scum wage war on a village i have to read about it on fucking 4chan... why is noone reporting this?
i can understand that the people in keratea are suspicious of outside influence, but don't you think that if things keep escalating this way you'll need extra help? where do you see this going? do the average greeks even know what's going on down there? whats their reaction?
i dunno what more to say... this shit needs to be all over the news everywhere... only thing i can think of right now is submitting riot porn to /r/anarchism or something like that... get some people involved. do you think international attention/pressure would make a difference? on whose orders are the cops there?
fuck this shit man
FIGHT
acab
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Anonymous2011-03-31 17:05
>>157
Ok mate. Before anyone gets involved they must understand very well what the situation is, what's happened so far etc. Unfortunately the official blogs of the citizens are all in greek. I can post comments on their blogs asking them to subtitle some of their videos in english and to upload some translated info. I can also start a discussion on athens indymedia asking people to start subtitling whatever they can.
>i can understand that the people in keratea are suspicious of outside influence
they were offered help by anarchists and leftist groups. I think the citizens didn't want anyone else there fighting with them but anarchists do help a lot on the information front by spreading the information (initialy the large news networks would even mention what was happening but after bloggers and anarchists brought it up they had to show it)
>don't you think that if things keep escalating this way you'll need extra help?where do you see this going?
(I'm not a keratea citizen)There is already some demonstrations in many cities of greece. Honestly, I think the police and the government are going to fail realy bad with this one because it's gone completely out of control. Already the plans for the dump have changed and they added sorting, composting and recycling facilities (the initial planning was to open a massive hole and just dump unsorted waste inside - this is totaly out of line with modern practice in the EU). The problem is that nobody trusts that the government is going to do as they promise. Also the place they picked is an archeological site and is totaly the wrong place to dump waste because it is dotted with ancient mines (I think ancient greeks used to mine silver there). There are undergound tunnels that go all the way to the sea and would take all the 'juice' from the dump straight to the sea. Below is a short documentary some citizens shot about the undergound 'wealth' of the place : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKVRBlT8MoY
>do you think international attention/pressure would make a difference?
I definately think it would. The government's initial plan was criminal. Totaly a case of corupt politicians making deals under the table with massive construction companies to scam money off the EU. But even for the violence that has been used and the amount of tear gas used. Living in the center of athens were most riots happen I've had so many times when I couldn't even stay in my own house because of the tear gas and that's without even taking part in the riots. My cat was spazing out...These chemicals are illegal when used in wars. I can't understand how the greek government is allowed to use them without being sanctioned.
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Anonymous2011-03-31 17:41
couldn't really understand what was going on in the video... but had some trippy background music :)
can you give us some links to information channels? i found http://www.ekathimerini.com/ekathi/news which seems to cover the events in english, is this a trustworthy newspaper? it doesn't seem to mention the 4am raids and says that "The police are doing their job and they are doing it with levelheadedness"... do you know any other places where we can get the citizens perspective?
tl;dr danish police got their asses kicked BAD, squatters won!
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Anonymous2011-03-31 20:49
>>159
>couldn't really understand what was going on in the video... but had some trippy background music :)
I msged the people who uploaded it and asked them for english subs. I did the same with the official blog of keratea. Hope they reply. I suppose you did see the undeground tunnels and water taks. All those will be polluted and will carry the pollution straight to the sea.
>can you give us some links to information channels? i found http://www.ekathimerini.com/ekathi/news which seems to cover the events in english, is this a trustworthy newspaper?
No. Kathimerini and the TV station SKAI belong to a guy called alafouzos. He seems to be connected with the constructing companies. It is even more biased than the government channels. I've been trying to find a good article telling the story from the beginning with no luck. On my email to the keratea blog though I did ask them to direct me to info in english. I will post links as soon as they reply.
>read this, it might give you some hope...
I've heard of the battle of ryesgade but not the details. I wonder is christiania still there?
Right. The guys from keratea replied back. They said that with all this shit going on they don't even have time to write in greek, let alone english. They sent me these two links to their blog:
They aknowledged the need for more info in english but they said that they're doing their best for now.
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Anonymous2011-03-31 23:41
>>159
They sound like disgusting human beings, a bunch of idiots who don't understand the real world and blame all their problems on democratically elected governments, they don't even seem to realize that without capitalism their country would be a poor 3rd world country ruled by a dictator who would simply murder them all. What does destroying other people's property accomplish? If they don't have to pay the price to use those buildings why shouldn't evil corporations evict a residential district without compensation to build a factory?
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Anonymous2011-04-01 4:14
>>160
yeah last time i checked (summer of 2010) it was still there ;-)
i don't know all the details of what happened down there, but the last riots happened when the municipality sold the house to a christian sect. the sect just wanted to close down the squat, wasn't even interested in the house itself. the people in christiania gave the squatters a temporary place to sleep (gotta remember it's deadly fucking cold in denmark). so the squatters waged a war on the city government (which quickly depleted the entire tear gas stock of the nation on them, a couple of days later they used up all of norway's teargas aswell).
in the end, the squatters threatened to surround the building where the mayor was doing his council etc... to hold them captive until a new building was found. po-po told the mayor: "i can't guarantee your safety". mayor told the squatters: "okay, you win i'll find you a nice big free building"
afterwards the police chief said that they had spent 100 million kronen on the entire operation, and the only results were: a destroyed city center and radicalization of the entire youth. these are results (imo) that the citizens of keratea could be striving for.
i can understand that the people are too busy writing stuff down, but i feel like a great opportunity at educating the public at large is being lost here: the real face of the coppers and how to deal with them...
>>162
your english is good and you have time.
start blog, buy camera, get your ass over there.
>>164
>your english is good and you have time.
start blog, buy camera, get your ass over there.
There is plenty of footage taken by the residents every time. I don't think they need me there and they are right not to trust me as I could easily be an undercover cop. The other thing is that I don't want to dissinform. In fact I did mention this to my email. I told them that since I don't have any direct information, I could end up missinforming people by mistake. That's why I've been trying to find articles written by them and I avoid linking to anarchist and leftist sites. Not that I don't trust them, but they are not directly informed either.
PS. Thanks for your interest. Even though it's not my struggle either, I feel that these people are fighting for everyone. If everyone did what we're doing, speading waves of anti-information and solidarity throughout the world, it would be almost impossible for dirty politicians to pull their tricks.
>>168
Slingshots are gay. If they were going to use weapons, why don't they all get actual guns? You know? If you hate cops so much, making them just go away won't cut it. You want to remove them perminantly or some shit.
Either way, everyone's a bunch of fags in that situation.
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Anonymous2011-04-13 7:51
>>169
Demanding one's rights is one thing and being a murderer is another. We are not at war. We give the cops and the government the chance to act within their own laws but they break them. We don't want to kill them but if they fail in their task they will be replaced. WE prefer to ridicule them and de-legalize them. For example in today's news: A secret police car was overturned. Three undercover cops on surveillance mission were taken out and beaten by strikers in the shipbuilding sector. In yesterday's news: A group of people who had been cut tickets for not paying tolls in national highways and whose license plates had been taken raided the police department were the tickets and license plates were kept. They burned the tickets and went home without harming the cops.
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Anonymous2011-04-13 9:02
They have every reason to be angry but they're idiots, they side with marxist leftist organizations when really they should side with extremely violent far-right militant reactionary groups and take back their government instead of replacing one flawed system with another.
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Anonymous2011-04-13 9:53
>>171
So first they're assholes for protesting over a landfill about to be built on an archaeological site, Then because they fend off the cops with slingshot instead of killing them and thirdly they are alright for the previous 2 but they should be far right. WTF is this shit you're talking? Do you even take yourself seriously? Or are you just flip-flopping from one side to the other just to attract attention?
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Anonymous2011-04-13 9:56
>>171
Oh, and also they're not fucking Marxists. The vast majority was conservatives. Most of them voted for the current government - the one that's now sending the riot police instead of setting up a democratic debate. You made this up just to have your short moment of attention.
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Anonymous2011-04-13 15:06
>>172 >>173
I'm not a flipflopper, I think you mistook me for another poster and I never said they were marxists, just that they sided with them. Maybe this is my fault since this is a politicised board and people will make their snap judgements, I should have been more clear cut.
I'm not sure what you mean by conservative, they're not necessarily anything, what they are is mimicking the communist protestors last year who were complaining about having their dole money cut to pay off money lenders and the corrupt officials who sold out their country to them, they knew what the problem was yet all they did was dilly dally, pick up a red and black flag and wave it for half an hour before getting a coffee and going home. That's the issue here, from the strategic perspective this is utterly useless, even taking into account their disorganization it just makes no sense to anyone with even a moderate level of political competence, they should be creating a unified front and it should have practical aims, in large part the punishment and replacement of those individuals and groups responsible for the problems in the country whom should be openly named and information disseminated proving their guilt.
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Anonymous2011-04-13 16:14
>>174
Oops. Sorry. I thought you were the guy I was replying to. Don't confuse the citizens of keratea with the demonstrations in the center of athens. I understand that from you it might seem like greeks just revolt for any reason but the injustices and the scandal in this country are unprecedented. The people who were in control and fucked the country up are still in office and covering each other up. There are many people who had houses and businesses and now they collect metals from the garbage to make a living. 'Marxists' as you call them did predict what's happening now more than a year ago and now they're being verified by the economical facts.
The red/black flag was anarchists and most of them are against both government and communists. As for the unified front, there are already many initiatives from many different sides in this direction. The police is demoralised because they themselves have started to understand what's happening here.
Mark my words: The government will fail in less than a year. The consequences are going to make the whole of europe tremble. This is going to be really fucked up.
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Anonymous2011-04-14 4:42
>>175
Maybe, or it will be the same shit as usual. The communist party are old guard, they need to make radical changes in PR strategy and public image and they won't because their leadership is part of the machine and their followers are dogmatic, much like the hellenic socialists. A party should seek to put across the image that all of Greece is being royally fucked and extreme actions are needed to remove certain individuals and groups from power and replace them with competent civil servants turned party members who know what they're doing and are terrified of facing the same fate as their predecessors, the socialists won't do this as they are part of the corruption, the communists are incapable of this because their line is that only the working class are getting fucked and loosely defined abstract concepts are to blame. A reactionary/nationalist ideology with a well calculated political strategy and a charismatic leader with only long term objectives in mind could accomplish this, it would channel people's frustration and it's message is simple enough not to get mired with ideological quibbles.
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Anonymous2011-04-14 6:12
The prime minister of greece is a jewish communist.
Are you surprised when he pushes anti-white, anti-greece, lunatic policies?
I notice a lot of gullible idiotic commies posting in this thread.
Socialism and communism is a jewish ideology, and all communist countries have been ruled by jews. There will never be a change to your magical utopian goals, because that has never been the point of communism. You are called USEFUL IDIOTS.
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Anonymous2011-04-14 6:14
>>176
This would sound logical. Only the right in this place are either pard of the problem and corruption the ND party) or tin-hatters that believe they are direct descendants of leonidas and the fucking elochim!Plus they're absolutely useless politically and they flip flop from one political position to the next. Finally, the far-right party (laos) voted FOR the austerity measures. Nobody believes them now that they flip flopped again. So whatever hope remains is left onthe anarchist who have seen massive increase in popularity and some far-right parties that have not gotten their hands dirty yet. I suppose this is not a dream situation but the leftist right now are the most believable part of the political spectrum. They are the ones organizing people in the neighborhoods and they have kept the same rhetoric for years only to be confirmed by the crisis. I don't have much trust in them either but I trust the anarchist who at the moment are the most trustworthy political speakers. They deliver. They set up free meals for the homeless and poor. They actively support citizens' movements without turning the anarchist. And generally they have turned into positive actions rather than simply rioting.
Oh, as for the ultra far right they act as paramilitaries sabotaging citizens who team up against the government and also stabbing immigrants in the streets making the already tense environment even more tense.
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Anonymous2011-04-14 16:35
Why do police attack2 protesters?
Don't they ever look at a huge crowd of upset citizens and think, "There must be a good reason so many people got together here to voice a single grievance."
Muaaaahahahaaaa! Just read on the news: The head of the greek riot police got sued by the police union for putting his men in danger (in keratea) and for breaking policemen's working rights.
In his statement, the spokesman of the union said that "by targeting the citizens the riot police in covering their own incompetence"
>>184
I read it on tvxs.gr (http://tvxs.gr/node/82422) but it's in greek. You can use a translator site if you want. Also, from a different news site, a reuters reporter was beaten up by citizens of kereatea. I don't know the details but i'm curious to see if and how it's going to be reported.
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ekathimerini2011-04-16 4:38
The country’s police workers’ union has sued the Greek Police over “unacceptable working conditions” that hundreds of riot squad officers are having to endure in Keratea, southeastern Attica, where residents are violently protesting the government’s plans to build a landfill, and has demanded the withdrawal of police from the area.
“The problem in Keratea is not one that can be solved by policing,” Christos Fotopoulos told Skai Television’s Proti Grammi program on Wednesday. “It demands a political solution.”
Police have been working long hours in high-risk conditions since December, Fotopoulos said.
The union has complained that officers have been working as many as 16 hours a day and that their health was at risk as well as their safety.
In a statement, the union accused the government of using the police as a target for disenchanted citizens to vent their anger upon. “It is unacceptable for our colleagues to be subjected to violent attacks while on duty, to be taunted and humiliated because the state has failed to safeguard the public interest for so many years,” the statement said.
Socratis Mangas, one riot police officer stationed at Keratea, told Kathimerini that his job had become exhausting and demoralizing. “In 20 years, I’ve never seen anything like this,” he said, noting that he and his colleagues suffer “one attack after the other” and are sometimes pelted with “hundreds of Molotov cocktails” in one shift. Mangas said that riot police unit chiefs were doing everything possible to “stop our job from turning into a vendetta with the people of Keratea.”
“We didn’t ask to be here and we’ve got nothing against these people,” Mangas said. He added, however, that attacks by locals were constant and that emerging unscathed from a shift was a matter of luck. “You don’t know whether you will return home safe or end up in hospital with third-degree burns.”
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Anonymous2011-04-16 7:33
>>186
This was my point earlier, they should be targetting the politicians in a "talk softly and carry a big stick" manner. The talk are requests for a number of oligarchs to face mandatory death or life imprisonment penalties for betraying the people and indirectly leading to people's deaths as a result of their negligence and a promise to do so upon election if it is not done earlier, the big stick will be the formation of paramilitary groups to be used in the event the corrupt officials under threat of execution/imprisonment decide to go to war with their own people and illegalise the party. Other than this the party should be completely neutral and moderate, drawing from civil servants for official roles, not adopting any fruity ideologies, just a basic national socialist worker's party.
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Anonymous2011-04-16 10:17
>>187
just a basic national socialist worker's party
I see you're avoiding the term nazi (national socialist). Are that ashamed of your ideology?
I understand. I would too if I was a hittler-whore.
>>186
But it was the choice of each police officer to even be there. Damn limited liability!
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Anonymous2011-04-16 12:07
>>188
Maybe it could be rephrased as a Greek people's nationalist party, just the basic concept of a country coming together to cooperate, not just to supply an economy of scale with labor but to enforce justice and preserve the general welfare of the Greek folk.
Nothing nazi about that.
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Anonymous2011-04-16 16:53
>>190
ok. it's just that 'national socialist' = nazi
Which is much worse than simple nationalist or simple socialist.
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Anonymous2011-04-16 16:55
Anti-police riots? Please its pathetic. If they really wanted to make a point take out all the cameras you can, paint, bolt cutters, small IED's take your pick.... Just take the camera out...
Mate, they'll just take out the drones if you do that. Or use reporters' material.
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Anonymous2011-04-17 7:29
>>192
Chemical engineering student here, I could actually produce a number of explosives ridiculously easily, it's pretty straightforward to convert old mobile phones and things into detonators as well.
I won't do this however because I am almost guaranteed £50000 a year once I finish my degree. I think that's the reason capitalism is so succesful, the smart people are absorbed into the system, the stupid are outsmarted. It's like a brain drain except between classes.
oh jeez u n00b ^^ if he dont blend u could cut him up in smaller pieces :) works all the time :) gretings from sweden :P
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Anonymous2011-04-20 1:00
United States here, we have some pretty bro cops around our colleges and suburbs. I think our inner city police are pretty mixed, depending on where you go. It's a shame really.
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Anonymous2011-07-10 5:24
Cops are just unlawful tax collectors. Cops don't know jack about the law; the old English Common Law, the Magna Carta or the US Constitution. They only go through their Zionist Occupied Government training manuals to see what they can write tickets for.
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Anonymous2011-07-10 8:21
>>200
Lol, bad apple fallacy describing systemic corruption and brutality.
The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution (part of the Bill of Rights) codifies the right to silence. The Supreme Court has ruled that suspects questioned while in police custody must be told of their rights in what have become known as Miranda warnings. Miranda warnings are required to be given during the questioning of a suspect prior to actual arrest, for example during the execution of a search warrant.
However, if the state feels the need, a suspect or subpoenaed grand jury witness may be given a grant of immunity and compelled to give testimony under oath. The interplay of local, state, and federal law is complicated in this area. A grant of immunity removes the possibility of the jeopardy of self incrimination, and therefore removes the right to remain silent to avoid self incrimination. (This is not to be confused with the issue of legally privileged communications, such as those between a lawyer and client, doctor and patient, and clergy and parishioner.)
There is a conflict between Miranda and Raffel v United States that remains unresolved by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Raffel v U.S., and in law enforcement practice, the court finds that at the very moment a suspect cooperates and answers questions and/or consents to search, the suspect gives up those rights and must continue that cooperation and consent through to that person's possible/eventual arrest, trial and judgment. Therefore, in the United States, by cooperating with police in any way prior to arrest, a person gives up Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights that under Raffel technically cannot be reclaimed later, after arrest and Miranda notification of those rights. This in reality renders Miranda warnings rather limited in effect, since police do not have to advise a person of his or her rights until after he or she self-incriminates and/or is arrested; if the person has cooperated prior to arrest, then the arrestee has already surrendered most of the rights of which the police are advising that arrestee.
In the U.S., the only way for one to protect one's rights fully is to refuse answering any questions beyond giving one's name and identifying papers if requested and to refuse giving consent to anything (such as a search) prior to one's arrest. Law enforcement officials do not have to tell civilians the truth on any subject. They can make any promises and claims they like in order to induce a person to incriminate herself or himself or to allow the officer to perform a search, and law enforcement officials are not bound by anything they promise to suspects or witnesses (i.e. promises of aid or protection). Raffel continues to be upheld in U.S. Courts despite the apparent contradictions with Miranda. In Re Grand Jury Subpoena to Sebastien Boucher, the U.S. District Court for Vermont ruled that because the defendant had already cooperated as far as he had and already potentially incriminated himself, by stating his ownership of his laptop and providing law enforcement with partial access to it prior to his arrest, that he must now surrender complete access to all information on that laptop, even encrypted and potentially self-incriminating or confidential information. Because the defendant had cooperated in part already, the Court ruled that the defendant must continue cooperation and provide the decrypted and potentially harmful information to the government. This is particularly noteworthy since prior U.S. Supreme Court rulings normally protect suspects even after conviction from the requirement of revealing self-incriminating information such as locations of their victims' bodies and/or property.
Some countries including Canada have carefully avoided such contradictions by clearly making inadmissible in court any information/statements provided by the suspect prior to advisement of their rights to silence and representation.
In June 2010 the U. S. Supreme Court announced its decision in Berghuis v. Thompkins, holding that a suspect's mere "silence during the interrogation did not invoke his right to remain silent." This decision was the third time in the same term that the Supreme Court placed limits on Miranda rights. In the dissenting opinion, Justice Sotomayor called the majority's decision, "a substantial retreat from the protection against compelled self-incrimination that Miranda v. Arizona has long provided during custodial interrogation."
Why do faggot cops tell you "you have the right to remain silent" when you do not?
Name:
Anonymous2011-07-10 14:52
So there I was lying in my jail cell getting my asshole forced into by a thick black cock and it got me wondering... Maybe I shouldn't have been such a douche and faggot?
Maybe I should have got a crew cut and a suit instead of a track suit and jamaican tam, not intentionally put myself "in the wrong place at the wrong time" like a retard and not mouthed off like a stupid fuck at the police.
>He gives his tacit consent to institutionalized rape-rooms.
>He calls the victims of the police state categorically douchey mouthing off faggots who were clearly ASKING FOR IT.jpg for leaving their designated free speech zones
Seriously, I seriously hope you guys don't seriously do this. Seriously.
Name:
Anonymous2011-07-11 4:10
>>208
If you wanted freedom you would have become an innovative competent intelligent creative plucky maverick entrepeneur until you strike upon that one thing that makes your fortune, then you'd have a lawyer, a BMW, you'd look and act the part, you'd have a list of contacts, colleagues and hangers on, cops don't fuck with anyone who looks like they might have a lawyer and doesn't make themselves a problem. A small price to pay for freedom, in fact I wouldn't even call it a price, it's thoroughly enjoyable.