Police

So what do you all think of the anti police riots in Britain?? Thoughts? Stupid or awesome?

>>120
What the fuck you talking about now? Noone even takes you seriously anymore. We're all just trolling you and milking as much "I hate the police because I think they're all evil and block me from being a wannabe hooligan" butthurt out of you as we can. You're the only one who's taking seriously, therefore you just across as rather pathetic sounding hoodlum who probably doesn't spend a dime on anything but your internet account so you can pirate shit and twitter your fellow anarchist bumbuddies about where the next peaceful march is that you can mob bomb

>>114
The last time I checked cops are the thing PREVENTING us from dealing with niggers waiting to rape our white daughters and trample our white lawns.

>>115
A RACIST??? In NEWPOL??? *gasp*

>>122
Oh boy - here we go.
It's obvious you are racist yourself considering you think the police are there to stop you playing out your favourite American History X fantasies. No wonder you hate them. They stop you beating up those blacks.

>>121
You just proved my point...

>>124
And how is describing what you really are, and in no way mentioned any kind of racist accusations >>121 am I "proving" your point. You're doing what they call "clutching at straws"

>>125
I called you a smear campaigner and you replied by smearing. That's as much 'proving my point' as you can get...

Obvious troll is too obvious

>>122
Without police, criminal gangs would take over and "police" the streets themselves. And unlike our current systemn, you can't change the policies of a criminal gang by voting them out of power...

>>126
Takes one to know one.
kay, so how is reacting to you saying they protect the "niggers" smearing? Secondly all your replies to this thread and others have revolved around "I hate the police. They're all eval. We must get rid of the police because they'll beat you in a locked room" shit that comes across as trolling because everytime you say it, someone gets provoked and your repeat the cycle.

So are you really just going to carry on saying that stuff or can you just fuck off to some anti-cop forums where everyone will shower you with praise suck your cock for telling what they want to hear?
Because you're getting none of that here.

>>121
"We're all just trolling you"
Don't you mean "*I* am just trolling you"? So if you're a troll, that means that you don't REALLY love cops, and that everyone agrees.

>>127
Without police, there would be no criminal gangs. There would be no "criminals" - no sinners against your insane goddess. Instead of soulless cultists stalking the streets, we'd have gangs with some semblence of HONOR and DIGNITY, fighting for REAL things. We'd LIVE, and we could buy guns with which to defend ourselves like in the old west, which worked fine until you disgusting lot showed up with your faggot Justitia religion.

Off with her head!

>>128
Now I get it. You think I'm >>110 don't you? No, I'm Greek boy.

>>130
Oh boy, he really thinks there'd be no crime if there were no cops. He really is dense. He thinks cultists actually exist? Double dense.

Don't worry guys, he's just out of touch with reality.

And you prove that considering people can buy guns for personal use. Ever heard of a 3 day waiting limit?

And I'm atheist, so I don't know where religion comes into it.

>>132
No, you are the one who's "dense" and "out of touch with reality".

There'd be no crime if there was no crime. "Crime" is the word that the cult of Justitia uses for sin. It is religious dogma. It doesn't actually exist in the real world - just in the minds of insane cultists.

Also, whether or not ones country has liberal gun laws or not, the cult doesn't allow us to use them for practically anything. Even if we use them for selfdefense, we risk inquisitions designed to distort truth, and we might still getting punished for sins the cultists simply invent.

Atheism doesn't mean denial that religion exists.

To *everyone* (although my gut says it's one person) who runs around calling "troll" everytime they don't like someone's views:

We're onto you. There are way more of us that have problems with cops than you think. You can't back up your reasons for liking them with reason, so you resort to name-calling. That's all your little "troll" routine is: name-caling.

Now run along and let the adults have a serious discussion.

>>132
I'd like to see you prove that. You keep telling yourself that. If there no law enforcers, there'd still be groups and individuals who would terrorise people, throw their weight around and take everything. You can keep telling yourself no cops: no criminals, but that's as logical as communism.
Please, don't explode and tell me Communism and police have anything in common. They don't: it's an example.


>>134
Me? Childish? Your anti-cop mentality is equally childish. You're still a minority, so what do I care anymore.

I'll tell you what? I'll leave this little troll thread and stop arguing with you. Because the only successful troll is one that keeps getting attention.

>>135
don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

>>135
That's why we need Jesus in our lives: To protect us from SATAN! If we would renounce Jesus as our Lord and Savior, Satan would GET US! Keep us safe, Jesus - amen.

Does this sound familiar?

>>132
Textbook propaganda. You need to get better to be convincing.

Link related

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Name-calling
http://library.thinkquest.org/C0111500/proptech.htm

Let's put it this way:

Crime has never been defeated in any society utilising a police force. On the other hand, there are a few examples of societies with no police and no crime.

On the other hand, there are a few examples of societies with no police and no crime.
But nothing regarding the latter condition being a product of the former case.

>>140
There are also indeed examples where everyone are given weapons and this is the direct CAUSE of there being no violence.

...and before you ask what that example might be and ask me for sources and answers that will make you look like a retard, think about what it could be for awhile. Think of it as a solvable riddle.

>>140
Let's say I'm comparing a theory that has been tried and never worked (even though it seems possible at first), with an observation that has been proved (although it sounds impossible in the societies we currently live in).


My conclusion is that there are causes for crime - usualy social. Police suppression focuses on the effects. Societies that have been violentless (in which for example there has never been any reported homicides or rapes) have done the opposite. They focused on ethics - being fair to each other.

That's why I consider the police a sad excuse for crime fighting.

From there on you can make your own conclusions. You may see this as utter bulshit but honestly I couldn't care less.

>>142
Which crimeless societies are we talking about actually?  if you can name some of them chronologically, start from Hammurabi and go forwards.

>>143 Anabaptist societies for example like the amish, the brethren and the hutterites also the kibutz had very little if no crime. Watch zeitgeit:moving forward. I haven't seen all of it but it mentions what we're talking about in the beginning.

>>134 Touche
>>144 Double touche

Person A gets robbed of 10 dollars.

Person A as an atheist: "I'll find him, punch him in the face and take 10 dollars from him, and then maybe kick him when he's down so he doesn't do it again."

Person A as a justitian (Justitia fanatic):
"I'll gasp, and I'll go and tell my church, and hope that they listen to my plight, and that they believe me, and care enough to send the inquisition on the sinner, who I then hope will honestly confess his sins out of the goodness of his heart, and then I hope that my church spends lots of dollars on arranging a trial for him, and I really hope that the sinner villingly shows up at my church and bows down before my god Justitia as his god and master, and submits to his punishment."

Justitians are fucking nuts.

Anyway, back near the topic, even if you get rid of the police on a wide scale, leaving no method to reconstitute the organization, there are enough people who are going to find a local lack uncomfortable enough to believe it warrants mobilizing their own version of a task force.  Eventually, that cascades back into the original organization that was eliminated.

How do you handle a situation where citizens themselves locally recreate the body of "law upholders," providing you've already established your ideal in one fell swoop somehow and eliminated conventional policing bodies?

>>144
I've heard that BECAUSE the kibbutz had such little crime, the state sent crimminals there so that they learn to live socialy in a working community without residing to crime and antisocial behaviour.

There is no point punishing crimminals. It doesn't improve society or fight crime. Even innocent people who were sent to jail came out trained crimminals. I see prisons as crime colleges, where crimminals improve their crime techniques, socialise with other crimminals and set up gangs that operate from inside the prisons. I seriously don't see any point in this other than revenge. It is a highly ineffective system that needs to change.

The whole idea begind imprisoning crimminals is correction. It simply doesn't work in practice. Instead it is a self sustainable system of crime, policing and corruption. It is a working economy that includes dozens of sectors like security(security systems, police, armoured doors/cars etc), constuction and the legal system (lawyers, judges etc.). So basically what we see is a mechanism similar to modern medicine. Where the drugs produced fight the symptoms and not the causes so that they appear to cure the patient but ensuring that he/she will need treatment again quite soon securing him as customer.

To avoid confusion again: that was me, Greek boy

>>147
thats a very good point and i think it comes down to how the police were gotten rid of. whether or not it was because of the people themselves that the police disappeared or whether it was just lack of a government. and i also suppose it depends a lot on the area in which you are in and what kind of people you are surrounded by.
In any case if the citizens started a new task force it may for some time be somewhat connected to the people. atleast more than it is now.

>>147
There is a huge difference between insane soulless Justitia cultists, and sane people. Insane cultists fight for their insane goddess while sane people fight for real things. It won't matter how bad some people would handle their own liberation: We're still better off without the oppression from insane cultists worshipping an insane goddess.

Still, you don't get it: Nobody needs to "uphold the law". Nobody needs to uphold the Torah, the Bible or the justitian religious text. The world works just fine without religion. Nobody needs "taskforces". If someone is wronged, it's up to him and people who cares to avenge him.

The battle of keratea - 3/29/11
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1278068

Short commentary: What you see in the first video is not the work of anarchists or leftist. It is prety much ALL the citizens of keratea. Even the mayor and the priest. Anarchists have offered to help but the citizens are keeping their distances because they are afraid of agents provocateur (secret police that may have infiltrated anarchist groups or portray themselves as anarchists). The citizens are attacking the police that are trying to open their block and allow the constuctor's bulldozers to pass. Please note that the greek courts have ordered the works to stop until their legality is judged. Therefore, the constructor and police ARE THERE ILLEGALY and the citizens of keratea who are protecting their land DO HAVE THE LAW ON THEIR SIDE. Except that the law cannot be enforced when the police are breaking it themselves. 4 pigs were harmed during the shooting of this video :p

On the fourth video, the witness says that riot police went there at 7 o'clock in the morning and started breaking the citizens' cars started beating people and gassed the shit out of everyone. There is a vendeta between the police and the citizens of keratea because the police have clearly been beaten both at courts and on the streets and they simply cannot accept this.

PS. This has been going on for 110 days now...
Look up keratea on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%CE%BA%CE%B5%CF%81%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B5%CE%B1&aq=f

>>152
There is a vendeta between the police and the citizens of keratea because the police have clearly been beaten both at courts and on the streets and they simply cannot accept this.

this is disgusting, i wish you all the strength you need in battle.

>>147 Good point indeed. >>150 also but a good base for further discussion. Personally, I would agree with 150 that it is totally a matter of how it would be done and the society it would happen in. I will keratea for example because even though i'm not from there, I have been watching it and I'm quite familiar with the situation.

Imagine being a thief in keratea wanting to break into a house. There is absolutely no police in town but the citizens are organised and have set up warning mechanisms. They know eachother and each other's phone numbers because of their struggle. They are united and in case somebody sees you, you know he can imediately call his neighbours and that they WILL support work together to catch you. Even if you do get away, The citizens are very aware of who's who because the police has sent undercover cops trying to infiltrate and gather information. Chances are that they would stop you if you acted strange and find the loot in which case you would wish you had never been there in the first place. If you had to drive away, all the roads are closed by roadblocks controlled by the citizens. There is no wonder why there is currently no crime in keratea. Even though the citizens have not really bothered to organise their own police, they still detter crime by being united, social and by actially knowing who lives next to them. So basically, the existence of a common cause/enemy had the effect of bringing everyone together and at the same time solving some problem which, personally, i believe have deep social roots. Therefore, I think that by focussing on the real causes of crime rather than suppressing its symptoms might bring much better results for much less money.

And to be honest, if the state was activelly taking the right measures to fight the causes of crime (social imbalances IMO), I wouldn't mind a properly trained police for a transitional period as long as they did serve and protect PUBLIC interest rather corrupt private interests.

>>151
You are a weird one. I do agree with you but the whole parallelism between law and the justicia cult just weirds me out a bit. Even in that I agree that they act like a cult. I'd call them an organised gang in the case of greece.

hang the commie bastards

New episode in the keratea serial: A team of 25 riot police, with no previous provocation, walk through the town at quarter to 4am(nobody harms them or even bothers them), go to the citizens block where there was a guard of 9 people including the secondary mayor, and beat the shit out of them. The secondary mayor did tell them who he was and also that he suffers from heart disease and the cops replied 'none of you is leaving this place alive'. The cops leaving broke the citizens cars and threw teargas grenades inside hoping to set them on fire (fortunately they didn't burn but there's no way anyone's driving them for a while).

This is absolutely true. You can verify the story by translating it on any greek online newspaper.

>>156
so what's the plan? what are the citizens of keratea going to do? 20 people protesting in north africa and i have to endure weeks of propaganda about it but copper-scum wage war on a village i have to read about it on fucking 4chan... why is noone reporting this?

i can understand that the people in keratea are suspicious of outside influence, but don't you think that if things keep escalating this way you'll need extra help? where do you see this going? do the average greeks even know what's going on down there? whats their reaction?

i dunno what more to say... this shit needs to be all over the news everywhere... only thing i can think of right now is submitting riot porn to /r/anarchism or something like that... get some people involved. do you think international attention/pressure would make a difference? on whose orders are the cops there?

fuck this shit man
FIGHT
acab

>>157
Ok mate. Before anyone gets involved they must understand very well what the situation is, what's happened so far etc. Unfortunately the official blogs of the citizens are all in greek. I can post comments on their blogs asking them to subtitle some of their videos in english and to upload some translated info. I can also start a discussion on athens indymedia asking people to start subtitling whatever they can.

>i can understand that the people in keratea are suspicious of outside influence

they were offered help by anarchists and leftist groups. I think the citizens didn't want anyone else there fighting with them but anarchists do help a lot on the information front by spreading the information (initialy the large news networks would even mention what was happening but after bloggers and anarchists brought it up they had to show it)

>don't you think that if things keep escalating this way you'll need extra help?where do you see this going?

(I'm not a keratea citizen)There is already some demonstrations in many cities of greece. Honestly, I think the police and the government are going to fail realy bad with this one because it's gone completely out of control. Already the plans for the dump have changed and they added sorting, composting and recycling facilities (the initial planning was to open a massive hole and just dump unsorted waste inside - this is totaly out of line with modern practice in the EU). The problem is that nobody trusts that the government is going to do as they promise. Also the place they picked is an archeological site and is totaly the wrong place to dump waste because it is dotted with ancient mines (I think ancient greeks used to mine silver there). There are undergound tunnels that go all the way to the sea and would take all the 'juice' from the dump straight to the sea. Below is a short documentary some citizens shot about the undergound 'wealth' of the place :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKVRBlT8MoY

>do you think international attention/pressure would make a difference?

I definately think it would. The government's initial plan was criminal. Totaly a case of corupt politicians making deals under the table with massive construction companies to scam money off the EU. But even for the violence that has been used and the amount of tear gas used. Living in the center of athens were most riots happen I've had so many times when I couldn't even stay in my own house because of the tear gas and that's without even taking part in the riots. My cat was spazing out...These chemicals are illegal when used in wars. I can't understand how the greek government is allowed to use them without being sanctioned.

couldn't really understand what was going on in the video... but had some trippy background music :)

can you give us some links to information channels? i found http://www.ekathimerini.com/ekathi/news which seems to cover the events in english, is this a trustworthy newspaper? it doesn't seem to mention the 4am raids and says that "The police are doing their job and they are doing it with levelheadedness"... do you know any other places where we can get the citizens perspective?

also, read this, it might give you some hope:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ryesgade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ungdomshuset
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_December_Riot

tl;dr danish police got their asses kicked BAD, squatters won!

>>159
>couldn't really understand what was going on in the video... but had some trippy background music :)

I msged the people who uploaded it and asked them for english subs. I did the same with the official blog of keratea. Hope they reply. I suppose you did see the undeground tunnels and water taks. All those will be polluted and will carry the pollution straight to the sea.

>can you give us some links to information channels? i found http://www.ekathimerini.com/ekathi/news which seems to cover the events in english, is this a trustworthy newspaper?

No. Kathimerini and the TV station SKAI belong to a guy called alafouzos. He seems to be connected with the constructing companies. It is even more biased than the government channels. I've been trying to find a good article telling the story from the beginning with no luck. On my email to the keratea blog though I did ask them to direct me to info in english. I will post links as soon as they reply.

>read this, it might give you some hope...
I've heard of the battle of ryesgade but not the details. I wonder is christiania still there?