Christians hate atheists for their freedom?

It makes sense if you think about it.  Christians have this all-powerful authoritarian figure telling them how to live out their lives.  Not only do you get punished horribly for stepping out of line, but this authoritarian is omni-present and will always catch you.  There is literally no freedom to do anything.  The most amazing thing is they don't realize this, or don't admit it.  This God does a better job than Big Brother could ever possibly dream.  But deep down in their hearts, they know they are being watched and controlled and it makes them angry to see those of us who are free.  Thus, they lash out at us.  Please do no fault them for it though, imagine how quickly you would become like that if you knew there was someone watching and condeming you every time you masturbate.

I think we should help our christian brethren escape this oppressive fascist called God.

Protect Iraqi people from danger but not his own people???

spawn more overlords

Christians? What about the muslims?

>>1
almost all christians i've met claims they do not hate atheists but pities them for not knowing and submitting to god. i am a christian and i think it's stupid to hold back one's bodily urges like these people, thus i fap all day for all i care. a supreme being like god should know better and understand us mere humans right?

I think god wants us to understand the nature of the universe in our own way and would prefer that we do it in a rational manner. So stupid annoying atheists who run around being fucktards go to hell, but then again so do fundy christians who convince impoverished nigerians to go without condoms etc..

If god exists it would not make a universe with little evidence of it's existence and create a large number of very shady religions who's following would inevitably consist mainly of people indoctrinated from birth, then send people to hell for not choosing the correct religion. I don't think god would care if people are stupid or which religion they have either. I think god would just want people to at least face the right direction.

Almost all Christians I've met (hint: I don't live in some retarded place like United States of Jesusland) don't care if someone is atheist. They seem to think religion is a personal matter, and is the business of an individual alone.

Seriously, who cares if you're atheist or Christian? Unless you're in the US, which seems to have collected all the religious fuckjobs.

Religions are a thing of fear and power.

Religions are not a thing of fear and power.

>>9 >>8 Newsflash babies; it can be both and in various degrees. Islam < Hinduism < Christianity < Buddhism < Atheism is techically less than Agnosticism. What we can say is that absolutely none of our findings regarding the absolute basics of reality, mass and all such jazz... Is that we can't find anything with sentience or a place where superpowerful beings can hide, nor a medium with which they can influence reality. As such, fuck the supernatural. I see christianity as one of the factors that made the west such a relaitively progressive and interesting place, but why do we not have a reality-based system of ethics and law today, when we should know better? I blame governments, relativism, authoritarians and a lack of secularism for that. If we honestly need a hippie-jew to die on a cross to give us good ethics we might as well have a nuclear war and go out with a badaboom.

>>10
i'm no hippie u fool!

>>7
This is relatively intelligent

>>12
Relative to a retard?

Why should christians hate or fear atheists if their almighty god will protect them? If they are indeed correct in their teaching then they (the christians) wont have to deal with us (the atheists) for very long since we earn ourselves eternal damntaion by denying the existance of god. When you look at it logically 100 years, which is a very long time to live, is rather insignifigant when you compare it to all time. So I ask my religous friends to tolerate our existance in this realm since you wont have to deal with us in the next. Christians do not hate us, they envy us for our ability to do whatever we want without fear of persecution from a smitefull god.

Good Christians are opposed to hate, envy and fear but being human we often fail in our duty to God and our fellow man. Christians do not envy you but pity you as a child without a Father.

>>15 "Christians do not envy you but pity you as a child without a Father." I prefer non-abusive parents, sir. Pity from a religious person is actually complementing.

Xel speaks like a true sociopathic communist. Sentience is proven. I think and perceive therefore I am sentient. If someone else suffers you might not feel it, but it is a very deep and personal tragedy to another sentient being and it matters. Coming from a supposed socialist who wants to help the poor, denial of sentience is pretty hypocritical since it takes the whole point out of being selfless.

Stop desperately trying to mix up superstition with sentience. Stop it with all this other marxist bullshit you spout on other threads aswell. I don't see what the point is anyway, Marxism only attracts the very stupid, you won't have much luck making and educated democracy into a communism.

A God that allowed atrocities to be commited in the Bible is no God of mine.

"And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also. And there came out a fire from the Lord, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense." (Numbers 16:32-35)

"And there came out against them Zerah the Ethiopian with an host of a thousand thousand, and three hundred chariots..." (II Chronicles 14:9) ... So the Lord smote the Ethiopians before Asa, and before Judah; and the Ethiopians fled. (II Chronicles 14:12)

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5)
...
"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6)
...
"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)
...
"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15)

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:10-11)

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord. A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:1-2)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)
...
"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)
...
"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Whoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. He that sacrificeth unto any god, save to the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." (Exodus 22:18-20)

"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

>>17 Um, I am of the firm belief that every human emotion is more important to that human being than the universe provided it is strong enough. Human existence is not "sacred" but rather to be secured and treated like a purpose in itself. If one person hurts another out of sheer selfishness I ambeing hurt as well. If a person is discriminated, I am as well. I consider every crime against a human to be a crime against me and I can assure you that per se I'm three times the "christian" Benjamin Franklin-wannabes like you can aspire to be.
"Stop desperately trying to mix up superstition with sentience." There are facts and then there is opinion. The being of a large shaper and trickster hiding in some superstring, influencing our dimension, is unproven. Therefore opinion. But there is a god, and he is human, he is all of you, and he is yours. And I do not approve of the current iteration of Iahve. So I am my own god now, and I seek to destroy any potential usurpers.
"Marxism only attracts the very stupid, you won't have much luck making and educated democracy into a communism." You're mother drank like that girl from the "Smack my Bitch Up" video while she was cartin' you. Or maybe I have given the wrong impression here. Either way, I am as happy as can be.
>>18 That is from the Old Testament, which is generally considered embarassing allegory. But there are those who use it, seek to realize it's theories and if passive christians don't want to prevent that they are enemies. They have responsibility for their religion, I'm just defending myself if I believe it can harm me or others. Which it is. Make no mistake, I am no islamist-apologetic, but deriously - fuck evangelicas and christianists. In the eyes.

>>19 The christian ethics allowed the Western world to become what it is, I think. But. If you find a piece of chocolate in a pile of dung, do you eat it? But. Christianity should be judged by its contemporary fruits, not its past successes nor by its potential. Today we shouldn't have to need it. Today it is an ausive parent; it is loving, it leads us somewhat in the general direction but we get scarred, violent, traumatized and confused. I like Christianity because unlike Islam it has flexed a little to accomodate the actual human nature. But we shouldn't need it today. It is embarassing and a failure. No more imaginary friends. And as for people who compare atheists to marxists... Someone should break your pubic bones.

>>19
I hope you are enjoying your mind AIDS from all that fucking it's experienced. Last time I checked I was not omnipotent, I'm not a god and there is nothing to suggest there is one so whatever. Also no, when someone is hurt or discriminated against you are not aswell, you are not a perfect human being and the sooner you realise that the sooner you can start working on sometyhing productive instead of making excuses and deluding yourself into a false sense of rightseousness.

You hate religion right? Well just take a look at religious people mocking the jerry springer show as if it proves what people end up like without religion. They are too deluded to realise that the fact that people are discussing their problems in the open instead of making excuses for them is evident that they are more likely to SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS instead of living in a deluded fantasy world.

It sounds like the hate, envy and fear is coming from the ones attacking Christians. Is this what you believe in?

>>22 why does every critisism of relegion suddenly become an attack on it?

lol this is far past criticism

>>24 bullshit

>>21 "Last time I checked I was not omnipotent, I'm not a god and there is nothing to suggest there is one so whatever.! I can shape the universe in palpable, actual ways. Dog cannot. Unless he commemnces some smoting, I win.
"Also no, when someone is hurt or discriminated against you are not aswell, you are not a perfect human being and the sooner you realise that the sooner you can start working on sometyhing productive instead of making excuses and deluding yourself into a false sense of rightseousness." The universalizability princip. If one human being is mistreated, then so can I. Making sure that people are safe from unjust treatment is in my interest. My own productivity will be a step in my happiness, but others happiness or at least well-being is another.
"You hate religion right?" I find it to be superfluous and cyclical, much like government. Hate is not the word for it. It's more like "pragmatic desire to see gone".
"They are too deluded to realise that the fact that people are discussing their problems in the open instead of making excuses for them is evident that they are more likely to SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS instead of living in a deluded fantasy world." I see pixels imitating words on my screen, but they mean nothing to me. What do you mean anyway?

>>22 "It sounds like the hate, envy and fear is coming from the ones attacking Christians. Is this what you believe in?" If a person can *motivate* acerbity and vitriol in her criticism...

niggers

>>28 faggot

>>29 heterosexual

>>29 actually im bi

>>31
Fucking Gnome!

"Faith is the single greatest weapon ever created, for its ability to silence and keep under control any questioning of authority."  --Wilhelm Nietzsche

Thinking about religeon poisoning the USA even more than it already does just makes me angry, so i'll simply leave everyone to think about the above statement.

KIKES

>>31 Then why do you perpetuate the dumb usage of the word "faggot" as a pejorative? Think about it, cocksucker, faggot, queer et al. - they're all used as negatives and stuff like that shapes people in invisible ways.

>>35
faggot

Religion isn't all that important in the larger scale of things. Tyrants would find an excuse to declare war anyway.

>>37 agreed

You fail at arm-chair psychology.

/atheist

>>39
DAMN ARM CHAIR PSYCHOLOGISTS, NOT PUTTING THEMSELVES IN THE FIRING LINE LIKE PROFESSIONAL PSYCHIATRISTS.

>>41 WIN!

>>43-999
FAIL!

>>42 stop trolling faggot. go to imageboards to do that shit.

guys, athiests, please dont generalize christians. i know tons of us suck, but a lot of us are pretty rad. basically, i believe in a higher power, but i dont let it influence my life pretty much at all. god is a scientist, science ftw, religion doesnt determine what i think in right and wrong, etc.

>>44
LOL RAD

RAD!!

gb2 80s

>>45
your words are like knifes :(

>>46
Your words are from the 80s.

>>47

your a fag

>>48
gb2 writing emo poetry

>>50 wow he actually is a fag, TOPIC UNRELATED TO THREAD!

>>46
>>48
>>50
Same person.

www.krischronichles.com

>>51
Sorry, no, thanks for playing.

>>51 yeah sorry was my jackass

>>46
>>48
>>50
>>53
>>54
Same person.

>>55 not the same person dipshit.

>>46
>>48
>>50
>>53
>>54
>>56
Same person.

>>1-57
Same person.
>>59-
Faggots.

>>58 Stop using "faggot" as a pejorative. It is so unneccesary.

>>59
I doubt you will get 4chan to stop saying faggot. Try it in places where people actually have hate behind it, most people here just like the way it sounds.

Or something, thats what 4chan says.

>>44 speaking
On topic: When I came to believe that God doesn't influence the world, he just watches it, I didn't feel "freer". It was kind of bleak to think about, but mostly it didn't change my life. So, I really doubt that Christians "hate your freedom". That's a little ridiculous. When I was a good little Lutheran boy (not), my pastor said that athiests were just missing out. She didn't hate them or their freedom. This has pretty much been the viewpoint of every Christian I've ever asked.
This aside even, the OP still made tons of factual errrors:

>>1 Not only do you get punished horribly for stepping out of line
Completely false. This varies incredibly between denominations, and its one of the biggest dividing factors. Catholicism, and more specifically, Roman Catholicism, is really the only major Christian denomination that believes in "punishment" for sins. This usually consists of confessing them, and if that's not enough, sometimes you have to pray. The "horrible punishments" like public humiliation have pretty much since been abolished. Jehova's witnesses and a few others still do it sometimes, but that's a very small minority and by no means an accurate representation of a "Christian" belief.

"There is literally no freedom to do anything"

Completely baseless hogwash that is so untrue that I literally could not even begin to point out how wrong you are.

"they know they are being watched and controlled and it makes them angry to see those of us who are free"
Again, baseless drivel. I'm so glad you know the opinion of roughly 2 billion people, you must be proud.

"Thus, they lash out at us."
More nonsense. Any Christians that lash out at athiests are extremists and very much in the minority. Just because they yell loudest doesn't mean the rest of their religion backs them. Same applies to Muslim extremists.

"if you knew there was someone watching and condeming you every time you masturbate."
Again, Christians that are against masturbation are very much in the minority. I think its kind of hot that someones watching, don't you? Maybe God will lead me to the right picture to cum to :D

"I think we should help our christian brethren escape this oppressive fascist called God."
Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Who's fascist here? I'll give you a hint: you.

>>59
Faggot.

the people that go to church here are over 60 or farmers, or both
the devil's in the cities, education too

>>62 let it go you ignorat prick

Whatever. There will never be resolution to any conflict between atheists and christians. Christianity fundamentally rejects atheism and atheism fundamentally rejects Christianity. No point in trying to make the other side see it your way. It just won't happen.

>>61
beliefs mean nothing. If you cannot test somthing to verify it, you assume it is not true. there is no rational reason to think god exists. morals are relative to the society they are in.

his name is nietzsche you should read moar and think moar while assuming less. 

^Exactly.

The more we dissect reality - we're down to colliding atoms at near-light speed and looking at quarks doing the foxtrot for Tiamat's sake - the more we realize that if god existed, it wouldn't even have a hiding place. We can weigh a bacteria and measure any kind of wave, particle, force and spin but somehow god works on our lives despite not have a medium to do so? Mmmhm!

Not all Christians hate athiests. A lot of Christians just like what Jesus taught and believe that there is a God. In fact, most Christians I know are just a free with themselves as athiests are. Even the Roman Catholics I know don't hate hate athiests- as was said earlier in this thread, they "pity" them. However there are some Christian's I've met who hate everyone who's not their exact flavor of Christian. Most of these people were uneducated or almost horrifyingly misinformed. So please don't lump all Christians into one big group because you'll never find something they all agree on.

Also, talking about how much Christians hate athiests and how they "lash out at you" reminds me of my old Catholic School days. We'd spend every day in Religion class and be told how horribly martyred and discriminated against Christians are. Lol.

You want a real religion check out deism.  I don't mind other religions it's when they get all up in my face with sacreligious bullshit that I hate.  DON'T TELL ME WHAT JESUS DID GW BUSH IS DOING THAT ALREADY, JUST LEAVE ME TO MY RELIGION AND I'LL LEAVE YOU TO YOURS.

All I wanted to say.  Flame me all you want I just love saying that in public/anonymous places where I can

Some more websites:  TO SHOW SHADOW GOVERNMENTS EFFECTS AND FUTURE PLANS FOR AMERICA.

spp.gov

keeptexasmoving.com

nascocorridor.com   under trans texas, etc....

>>7
>They seem to think religion is a personal matter, and is the business of an individual alone.

When your personal beliefs motivate your public beliefs, you have to be a class act douchebag to say they're the business of an individual alone.
It is an impossibility to consider religion a personal belief when you vote for people and laws that would otherwise restrict other people from keeping them. When you have public places of prayer. Also, if you feel the need to drag your children into it.

When you religion makes you feel the need to alter the world in any way that reflects that religion, your belief is no longer personal.

I'm an athiest and I let it be known that all religion should be fucking outlawed. It's a personal belief, but if I'm going to draw actions upon that belief your going to need to understand the reason I come to those conclusions or actions.

>>66
"beliefs mean nothing. If you cannot test somthing to verify it, you assume it is not true. there is no rational reason to think god exists. morals are relative to the society they are in.

his name is nietzsche you should read moar and think moar while assuming less. "

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Did you even fucking read my posts?? "basically, i believe in a higher power, but i dont let it influence my life pretty much at all. god is a scientist, science ftw, religion doesnt determine what i think in right and wrong, etc." Stop generalizing me as a faithfagot and learn to respect others beliefs. Stop trying to convert me to atheism, I believe in God and the only person who can convince me otherwise is myself.

Atheists who obsess over nietzsche are almost as arrogant as he is. Nietzsche essentially created his own godless religion and now emos enjoy sucking his long dead dick. Maybe you should "read moar and think moar" and realise he might not be a super genius who solved every problem.

I dont believe in Nietzsche, Therefore he doesnt exist.

At least Nietzsche was proven to exist, as opposed to an omnipotent ghost.

>>75
>>76
Most of the stuff Nietzsche came up with is unproven.

>>76
How is it proven?

http://www.wii-files.com/news/wii-media/zelda-twilight-princess-ultimate-trailer.html  Well, well, well. Guess a whole bunch of Republicans knew that Foley had his fingers in an illegal cookie jar as early as 2005. I wouldn't be so upset if it wasn't for the fact that they lambast homosexuals for being pedophiles and blaming the seculieberals for hurting the moral fiber of the nation or some shit. Party of values and principles my ass. No fucking wonder I am a left-of-center democrat.

>>79
He was trying to instill those boys with the spirit of good values, it just happened to be imbued in his semen.

>>73
wow, you understand that there is no reason to believe in god, and you still do. congratulations on your ignorance.

>>79
Being a FAGGOT isn't immoral, the republicans are just wrong about that. You liberals really are machiavellian geniuses, but I can see right through it thanks to George Orwell pointing out the existence and nature of doublespeak mindfuck crimethink.

You are attempting to mix up 2 things.
1: The idea of morality.
2: An example of where republican moral values are incorrect.

Spoiler: People get things wrong, this is because they are wrong. If you make a mistake when calculating something using the equation E=MC^2, it doesn't mean E=MC^2 is invalid it means you made a mistake. If you can't make this distinction admit this so everyone knows you are stupid.

With this distinction in mind it is obvious that the conservatives were not applying morality, but misapplying it, which is why they are wrong.

Liberals have a moral code which consists of equality etc etc.. They just don't say that it is a moral code because they enjoy re-naming old definitions and passing them off as their own so they can claim the credit.

Being a FAGGOT  is not immoral.
Being a pedophile is immoral.

I don't give a fuck what the republicans think and how much they wipe their ass with the idea of morality, morality as a concept of necessity is still valid.

>>81 wow, you understand that there is no reason to believe in god, and you still do. congratulations on your ignorance.


Just shut the fuck up, okay? You'll be doing the world a favor. No tangible proof =/= no reason, idiot. I have a lot of reasons why I believe in God, but I am not about to try and argue that, because that is the fucking stupidest thing to argue. Learn to respect other people's beliefs and opinions and you won't come off as such an arrogant asshole.

>>83
well what are your reasons then

>>84
"but I am not about to try and argue that, because that is the fucking stupidest thing to argue."

>>85
So you believe in god because you think needing a reason to believe in something is a stupid thing to argue?

God is a dickhead.

>>83 "No tangible proof"
HOLY SHIT

>>83 "I have a lot of reasons why I believe in God, but I am not about to try and argue that(because my reasons are too stupid to post here)"

WE WIN

>>82
Being a FAGGOT  is not immoral.
Being a pedophile is immoral.

thanks, morals relative to the society they exist in. no +/- is assigned to actions. it is all a matter of people's individual perspectives.

>>86
>>88
No. Gross assumptions and putting words in my mouth does not make you win. I think arguing gods existence is a fucking stupid thing to argue. you believe what you believe, i believe what i believe no one is going to change their opinion. i respect atheism, why cant you respect my beliefs instead of acting like you are superior?

If you really want to know so bad, I believe in a higher power because
1. I think in order for the universe to be created, there must be a constant. something outside the laws of physics and space and time which could in turn create the universe via big bang.
2. Humanity, conscious thought, and life in general is too significant and phenomenal to just be a random occurance (note that I believe in evolution, I believe god created evolution and either had the foresight to set it up so these phenomena would occur or slightly influenced it a certain points to make these happen)

Again, this is stupid to argue. This is my opinion, you won't be able to change it, and I won't be able to change yours. We will never find any tangible proof of a higher power, and we will never prove that there isnt one. In the mean time, why don't we respect what people believe and stop trying to convert one another.

>>90 Matter can be created out of vacuum if the pressure is high enough. Go back to sunday school and stay there. As for human life, complex organs like eyes have been shown to come to existence quite quickly in a non-controlled environment. Look up Dawkins at wikiquote, and feel the burn. We'll agree to disagree is your closing statement. How adorably blunt. This isn't over - I will work every day to push irrational things like religion out of the human psyche. It is a mental virus.

>>91
"Matter can be created out of vacuum if the pressure is high enough."
lol wtf??

Note for fundamentalists: This man doesn't represent science.

>>89
SHUT THE FUCK UP STUPID ASSHOLE

BEING A FAGGOT DOESN'T CAUSE SUFFERRING, RAPING A CHILD DOES, IF ANYONE THINKS OTHERWISE IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT MORALS IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE FUCKING CRAZY

>>92 Do you have a counterclaim or are you just knee-jerking because you've never heard this before?

>>94
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/vacuum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/pressure

>>95 Um, the first one says there is no total vacuum; there is no such thing as nothing. The second... I won't say I understand physics to an adequate degree for understanding the article, but I would like if you could pinpoint how these articles rape my claim.

>>95 Give up argueing with the atheists here, they are clearly superior in their mental capacity. Sunday school must be draining all the capacity for complex thought from your brain. Religion is an useless moral code that society no longer needs. Now its nothing more than a bad way to waste a sunday morning.

>>96
>>97
Holy fuck you people are stupid.

>>96
>>97
Serious this is why I hate other atheists, you think anyone who disagrees with you is a fundy, just like religious assholes think anyone who disagrees with them is worshipping stan or whatever. Why don't you take your zarathustra bible, fuck off and go suck some dick.

fucking idiots..

>>Xel, post 2 sentences explaining how vacuum-->matter. no external links, all we want is a fucking clue.

>>90
1. I think in order for the universe to be created, there must be a constant. something outside the laws of physics and space and time which could in turn create the universe via big bang.
- WHY do you think this? What evidence supports this HYPOTHESIS?

2. Humanity, conscious thought, and life in general is too significant and phenomenal to just be a random occurance (note that I believe in evolution, I believe god created evolution and either had the foresight to set it up so these phenomena would occur or slightly influenced it a certain points to make these happen)
- theres "I believe" again. WHY do you think this? What evidence supports this HYPOTHESIS?

www.whywontgodhealamputees.com

Thread ends here.

>>101

No. That's just immature and silly.

Arguing over if God exists or why someone thinks they do or not exist is like arguing over which comic book universe is better (or why one thinks their comic book universe exists).

Why don't you guys just fap and get it over with? Why do you have include the rest of us in your masturbatory escapades? You guys are circle jerkin' around and nothing's getting done; planet is still dying, kids are still getting raped, the wars of tommorrow looking more and more final for all humankind. And you guys instead; having chosen to stand around playing with your genitals.

What a fucking waste all of you are.

have* not "having"  `noyt

LOL you guys actually beleieve a god exists? Obviously that shit was made up to scare the shit out of you, just like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Its time to grow up :D

>>101
If god solved all our problems, there would be no tests of character to see if we deserve to go to heaven.

I'm not actually a theist I just thought I'd say lol.

Thread begins anew.

If god is all-powerful but does nothing, he is impotent.

>>106
But he has done something, he created the universe.

>>106
It rather, god doesn't have gender.

>>107 No, it created itself. It could and it did. Also, if you are right (you are not) all god did was lay down the gridwork. We don't owe it anything but belief in this act (13.7 billion years ago) and that is that. Assuming it created the universe. It didn't. The bible is irrelevant. There is no medium through which it can conceivably act on materia anyhow. Maybe god is gravity or Plack's constant, it sure as fuck is not a singular, conscious entity.

>>109
Arguing over if God exists or why someone thinks they do or not exist is like arguing over which comic book universe is better (or why one thinks their comic book universe exists).

Why don't you guys just fap and get it over with? Why do you have include the rest of us in your masturbatory escapades? You guys are circle jerkin' around and nothing's getting done; planet is still dying, kids are still getting raped, the wars of tommorrow looking more and more final for all humankind. And you guys instead; having chosen to stand around playing with your genitals.

What a fucking waste all of you are.

>>109
I lied, I don't believe in god. I assumes god doesn't exist due to the lack of evidence. I'm contending you because you are an idealistic atheist who spouts catchprases instead of actually botherring to think about the subject of existence.
>>110 Is right sort of. A more logical definition would be simply that crazy religious people are extremists and will not listen to reason, decent religious people know that there is little or not evidence of god, but live by the illogical dogma because so much of their personality depends on it. You aren't going to change these people with rational debate, so just state the facts and go off and do something else.

http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/

I'll stand by that site as it is rational, and not a petty child's arguement. You guys should really check it out.
<sacasm>
Now if you'll excuse, I'm missing out on much gential playing/fapping/masturbating to do.
</sarcasm>

Cheers,

~Kumori

Holy fuck, why does everyone deal in fucking extreemes. There is no hard proof that god does exist, but there is no hard proof that he/she/it does not exist. Why can't you all stop this useless bitching and let the thread die?

Hey, there is no evidence that there is no god, so why not be agnostic? Oh yes, atheists are just as dogamtic and ostensible as religious people! Weeeell, there is no real evidence against fairies, is there? Have we disproven the existence of fairies? Do we really have to care, isn't it easier to live as if fairies are non-existstent because we have better things to do? No, because then we are dogmatic and then we are not showing respect to people who believe in fairies. Got it.

thread over!

>>91
"Matter can be created out of vacuum if the pressure is high enough. Go back to sunday school and stay there. As for human life, complex organs like eyes have been shown to come to existence quite quickly in a non-controlled environment. Look up Dawkins at wikiquote, and feel the burn. We'll agree to disagree is your closing statement. How adorably blunt. This isn't over - I will work every day to push irrational things like religion out of the human psyche. It is a mental virus."

Can you even fucking read?! I believe in science, I believe in evolution, I just believe that there is a god behind it all. Until science can come up with definitive proof that there is no higher power, I will believe in one. I used to have respect for you Xel, but I can't respect intolerance, and I can't respect self-righteous assholes trying to push their beliefs on other (converting).

>>109
"No, it created itself. It could and it did. Also, if you are right (you are not) all god did was lay down the gridwork. We don't owe it anything but belief in this act (13.7 billion years ago) and that is that. Assuming it created the universe. It didn't. The bible is irrelevant. There is no medium through which it can conceivably act on materia anyhow. Maybe god is gravity or Plack's constant, it sure as fuck is not a singular, conscious entity."

More condescending bullshit, more baseless assertions. For one thing,  something that can create the fucking universe would be able to cover its tracks so people don't know it exists. It's not "sure" and it's definitely not "sure as fuck" that god doesn't exist, this is your personal belief and you are presenting it as fact like a pretentious asshole.
>>106
"If god is all-powerful but does nothing, he is impotent." Read up on Deism.

>>100
"- theres "I believe" again. WHY do you think this? What evidence supports this HYPOTHESIS" You have to believe in everything, science, god, gravity, addition, whatever. I stated my personal beliefs and I don't intend to make anyone else think like me, it is just what I think. There is no hard evidence for or against a god, so its all about what you believe.

>>99
"Serious this is why I hate other atheists, you think anyone who disagrees with you is a fundy, just like religious assholes think anyone who disagrees with them is worshipping stan or whatever. Why don't you take your zarathustra bible, fuck off and go suck some dick.

fucking idiots.."

THANK YOU, here is one person I can repsect in this thread.

>>102
"Arguing over if God exists or why someone thinks they do or not exist is like arguing over which comic book universe is better (or why one thinks their comic book universe exists)."

Right, that's what I've been saying, but people ITT somehow think god is a provable/disprovable thing. It's not and it never will be.

>>114
I am agnostic, deist/agnostic. I don't think my beliefs are the absolute truth, of course I could be wrong. Thinking there is no chance you are wrong on one of the biggest, most unanswerable question on earth is just silly. And you're using the flying spaghetti argument, and if a church of fairies pops up I will respect their beliefs. I won't agree with it but I will respect it.

Remember: Xel's countrymen frequently commit suicide as a passtime.

>>117 Any sense of happiness/contentment and/or a system of ethics that needs a supernatural (and therefore dubious) dimension for leverage is illegitimate. Christianity is not compatible with humanity unless you pluck out the good parts and throw away the rest. I don't care about the people on this thread, it's christianism that should be purged from existence.

>>118

I thought that when I was 17, as well.

Then you go first.

>>120

Huh?

>>118
humanity is not compatible with YUO
Fixed

>>121
If there is going to be a "purge" then Xel should go first. Unchristian I know, but a lot of us still don't have this turn the other cheek stuff down pat. It looks like the last time you boys started "purging" would have taught you something.

>>123 I'm talking about christianism, which is a mental virus. If you think that incrementally pushing that out of human culture is the same as purging christians then I am the least of your problems.

>>123


Oh, ok, thought you were talking about me. Listen; christians are pretty bad, but sitting here and pressing the issue when it comes to who believes in what makes you just as bad as the Christians, I don't care if you're coming in the name of science or not.

Science > Jesus ok, that is why Jesus is dead but science is still alive.

Year 0 A.D. Jesus tried to do a 4pool zergling rush against Science, but Science stacked its SCV's and defended successfully. Jesus was behind economically, and Science still had more scvs and  built marines and medics going SK terran.

Jesus tried to build lurkers but Science had scan and moved around crushing all the expansions Jesus tried to make while irradiating all the lurkers, then overran Jesus' main.

Jesus typed "gg" and bowed out. He tried to hax0r by reviving in 3 days for a rematch, but he lost when Science bunker rushed him with marines and SCV's and he was gone for good.

GGNORE NEWB CHRISTIANS

I forgot to add KEKEKEKEKE btw

>>124
  Do you really think that you can have any effect on a belief system that has shaped every aspect of Western culture for two thousand years? Go get em, tiger.
 

^--- Damn, you're right.

Now that I think about it, we shouldn't even have bothered to prove that the Earth revolved around the sun either. I mean, did that retard Galileo <i>really</i> think that he could have any effect on the belief that the Earth was the center of the Universe, a belief system that had shaped every aspect of Western Culture for 2000 years? Go get 'em, tiger.

  Who's faith was shaken by this marvelous discovery? He had an effect on the authority of the church, it did not change any one's faith in God.

>>130 Which is exactly what I prefer. Faith is one thing - believing the bible/church and their many retarded lies, litanies and subpar prose is another thing.

>>124
You sound an awful lot like those kids from Jesus Camp, on the authoritarian scale at least.

>>131 Despite our human failings, faith continues.

>>133 I have nothing against faith, because it is obviously useful for some and I probably have faith even though I can not precise its subject or define it. But faith has no intrinsic value, and faith in wrong and/or irrational and irrelevant things is sad.

>>116
in science, there are things we do not know. christianity has the answers to things science does not know, because it makes shit up. we DO NOT KNOW how the universe began. Big bang actually has evidence to support it; unlike creationism.

there is no proof god exists. there is no eveidence to support the existance of god; therefore whatever reason you have to believe in god is irrational.

quit saying that arguing cannot change the way people think. I was once a theist; then I started to question the things I was being told. Once I learned about the scientific method, I found that there was NO EVEIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE HYPOTHESIS "GOD EXISTS" ; with the scientific method, when you find no support for a hypothesis, you either 1.change the hypothesis, or 2. reject the hypothesis.

Think about this for a second. God is just a way for people to get rich. what do they do at masses? pass collection baskets to everyone. if the priest doesnt supposedly get it, then where does it go? and how does the priest support his family if he has to work at the church? all religions throughout history have just been to play with humans basic nature so some people can get rich.  

>>135
Again, I believe the Big Bang and not Creationism. I believe in Theistic Evolution. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution#Deism

No evidence =/= irrational. Irrationality means without reason, and reason can exist without evidence. I've already stated my reasons.

I never said arguing cannot change the way people think. I said arguing about the existence of god will not change the way people think. Changing your views on this happens from personal revelation and research, like what you did, and I aswell, however I went from Lutheranism to Deism), not in a heated argument where the oppostion is calling you inferior, irrational, and just plain idiotic. Again, there isn't evidence for or against God, and there probably never will be. If you think that something doens't exist until proven, well that's your belief. I mostly believe that too, with an exception here because I think God is outside of science and space and time, so we will never be able to prove its existence.

>>137
research, lol.

>>137 Well, basing your faith on the probability that god is hiding somewhere behind a Higgs-particle or in dark matter is just silly. If it exists it is running out of hiding places *and* mediums through which it can have any sway over our empirical reality. So, you should be an agnostic. At least a theoretical one. "Theistic evolution"... When will theists realize we've dissected basically everything on the planet?

Xel, quit posting with a name. comment not tripworthy. comment not nameworthy. makes you easier to flame.

There is no evidence for evolution or big bang.  Every shred of "proof" is simply a lie.  There are way too many gaps in the fossil record for there to be an accurate representation of evolution through that.  And there is no way for information to be created; genes cannot simply be "added", only modified.  And big bang is lacks any sort of proof aside from a few things that might hint it's not total bullshit.  Most scientists don't even believe in big bang anymore.

There are infinite things which can neither be proven or disproven, therefore we have no choice but to believe only in things which are proven.

>>141
Oh I see, so we don't know what happenned billions of years ago. It was neither god or the big bang.

>>142
Proof denies faith. The whole point of faith is that you can't be sure ie THERE IS NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE

>>141 Them's fighting words baby. Sauce (people of the robe who has rubbed your prostate don't count)?
>>141 "And there is no way for information to be created; genes cannot simply be "added", only modified." Anonymous please. Like capitalism, life takes the path of least resistance.  DNA was best suited for the job, so it can be found in everything from ancient bacteria to furries to human beings. Are all theists this nutty or am I having a nightmare?

>>145
DNA is slightly different from parent to offspring, if the mutation means the offspring is more likely to pass on it's genes then the mutation is added to the species as future offspring with the gene pass it throughout the species.

>>146 And that fact is diametrically opposed to my statement how? It's not like it showed up one day and then started mutating during reproduction.

>>139
"Well, basing your faith on the probability that god is hiding somewhere behind a Higgs-particle or in dark matter is just silly. If it exists it is running out of hiding places *and* mediums through which it can have any sway over our empirical reality."
That's not what I'm "basing" my beliefs on, its only part of it. I'm not saying god is hiding somewhere in the universe, I am saying it is outside of the universe. For example, if this were a 2D universe, it could've been made by a 3D god who was above and outside of it. People in the universe would only be able to look in two dimensions, therefore they would never "find" god. Likewise, in this 3D universe, god could be 4 dimensional and could've created the universe from outside of this. Or, if there are more dimensions in this universe, god is n+1 dimentions, or n+x for that matter.

 "So, you should be an agnostic. At least a theoretical one. "
ag·nos·tic
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
I am agnostic, I have already said this at least once before ITT. You don't seem to fit the first definition.


""Theistic evolution"... When will theists realize we've dissected basically everything on the planet?"
Again, can you even fucking read? Here is what I linked to:

"Deism is belief in a God or first cause based on reason, rather than on faith or revelation. Most Deists believe that God does not interfere with the world or create miracles. Some deists believe that a Divine Creator initiated a universe in which evolution occurred, by designing the system and the natural laws, although many deists believe that God also created life itself, before allowing it to be subject to evolution. They find it to be undignified and unwieldy for a deity to make constant adjustments rather than letting evolution elegantly adapt organisms to changing environments.

One good example of this is the recent (December 2004) conversion to deism of the former atheist philosopher Professor Antony Flew, who now argues that recent research into the origins of life supports the theory that some form of intelligence was involved. Whilst accepting subsequent Darwinian evolution, Flew argues that this cannot explain the complexities of the origins of life. He also stated that the investigation of DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce [life], that intelligence must have been involved", though he subsequently retracted this statement in an interview with Joan Bakewell for BBC Radio 4 in March 2005.

Some Deists contend that God ceased to exist after setting in motion the laws of the universe."


Up until the last sentence, that is what I believe. Now stop generalizing me as a believer in intelligent design.

>>141
way to fail high school biology

>>147
disregard that, i suck cocks

>>148 We live in 4 dimensions as well, but we see one 3-dimensional segment at any given moment. There are six left is the consensus. And when it has run out of places to hide we will drag it into the streets and beat it to death.
Okay, so a deist just needs to feel as if there is a slim possibility that daddy will show up one day and kiss it good? Well, okay. As long as you're not a member of some family-first organization I have nothing to complain about. I'm still happy about this though http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/living/religion/15682280.htm

I have a friend that is christian, and my parents are devout christians. I used to be a christian.
I'm now Agnostic. Having god shoved down your throat every day sucks. I also read many articles when I was a christian about the nonexistance of god. I then realized just how much the christian religion/bible is based on stories. Thats all they are. No one can prove or disprove god, So I decided to become Agnostic. My life really opened up when I broke free from Christianity. Neat things happened. Pushing any religion on anyone, especially someone you don't know is bad.

>>151
 
Xel, just shut the fuck up. You're seventeen. You're too young and too stupid to have a dual belief right now. You lack the clarity that comes with experience. There are plenty of old men who once felt like you and have changed their stance completely...and with good reason.

The idea of you, a child, coming at anyone as an expert on anything remotely metaphysical is so funny that I fudged your mom's panties, which I wore at her request. (Hey: It happened!)

You're a clever brat, but sometimes you come off like Paris Hilton trying to explain why she deserves the nobel peace prize.

Jesus Christ was like Elvis. When he came about, everyone loved him, cause of his swinging hips and ways of saying stuff.
Everyone loved him, except husbands and people who hated queer people.

And just like Jesus, when he died, everyone mourned for him. Just like the news about the death of Elvis. Some sick bitches can't forget about him, because he was so different, so new that they kept believing in something dead. Like singing or listening to his songs, either case, love songs or hymns. They believed in him so much some decided to believe in other stuff like aliens bring Elvis back to life. Some people believe the blood of Jesus lives amongst us today too. Some totally discard both ideas, because that was back then and can never be now. Like the 80's, that can never be anymore and should be respected as a period of time.

Now all you Christians, Muslims, and whatever religion should go listen to Elvis as the far superior King of Rock, and fuck yourselves cause he's dead.

>>148 I believe we do not need the notion of a superdimensional intelligence ever having acted upon ours. It is a possibility but we should concern ourselves with our reality and dismiss others as intellectual and emotional weaklings. Also, the complexity of life is impossible to quantify as too complex to have accumulated without arbitage. This is speculation.
>>155 Good old agism and failed attempts at troll. My belief is not dual either - I accept the possibility of an arbitrary intelligence acting on my world, but I do not think the notion should be entertained or respected. We do not need to act or think with the notion in mind because there are too many degrees. The very idea that humans need this sort of idea to operate and feel safe is an insult.

>>157
Summary: Xel is a pseudo new-age, dogmatic, humanist.

>>158 I prefer sceptic, reality-based agnostic libertarian with innovist and communitarian preferences, valuing non-financial freedoms over financial ones. Randomly throwing a bunch of monikers you freedom-fighter wannabes consider 'uncool' is not effective.

>>157

"Good old agism and failed attempts at troll. My belief is not dual either - I accept the possibility of an arbitrary intelligence acting on my world, but I do not think the notion should be entertained or respected. We do not need to act or think with the notion in mind because there are too many degrees. The very idea that humans need this sort of idea to operate and feel safe is an insult."

LOL "Agism". Call it whatever you want, kid. Whatever gets you to sleep at night. Just keep in mind that your reply to my statement was a trite attempt at outing a troll. To assert that you might be far too brash and naive to grasp some concepts that are entirely dependant on respective human experience isn't a call to arms. You think it is, because you're a bratty child, your replies and your inability to retort with any degree of certainty is my proof positive of your intellectual immaturity.


Case in point: >>159

>>160 Certainty? I'm certain that I have no ground on which to call bullshit on those that accept the possibility that a sentient entity we can not find as of writing once acted upon us and still does. It's when these people (christians, muslims and other unpredictable types) think and say we should act with this notion in consideration that I reach for sharp objects in the vicinity. We do not need to fuss about the jurisdiction and judgement of a super/sub-dimensional being when we have empirical, logical, solvable and very worldly problems in this dimension - many of which are caused by these irrational bastards in the first place.
As for your knee-jerk attempt to dismiss my self-nomination as haphazard and incomplete, I proud myself of being a non-convinced human being who look at facts before aligning my actions. How old are you? What have you experienced that allows you to thump your chest? Does a more varied and lengthy relationship with the environment intrinsically make for a more credible and balanced organism? Is theoretical conviction even desirable and a positive trait in a complex reality? I know I'm being a precocious little motherfuck who'll probably be having different opinions in the future - but since your alpha-male calumny holds little value to me I figured we could dance a little.

Some scientist think we may be hardwire to have and need beliefs and to varying degrees. That means you are all argueing because of a boilogical determinant. The beleivers beleive because they are wired such and need to. Non-beleivers do not need it and as such do not understand why the beleivers are so adament about it. Yet neither is any position to criticise what the other is doing, as they may just be following out a hard wired poragative. It's as stupid to argue about as how you produce say maelin and  ... oh wait.

oh god.. not another one of these threads

XEL SHUT THE FUCK UP IMMEDIATELY, GO TO YOUR LOCAL BAR HAVE A FEW WHISKEYS, GO HOME AND SLEEP IT OFF

>>163 I'M 17 - I CAN'T GO TO A BAR EVEN IF I WANTED TO! WHY ARE WE SHOUTING!!
>>162 How do I spelled good?

>>164
You suffer from a pathological personality disorder. See a psychiatrist.

People are stupid whether they are atheist, theist, agnostic or whatever. Religious affiliation is not an indicator of intelligence, reasoning, or coherence! 

>>165 :*(
>>166 No, but I think it is very probable that non-theists (agnostics, atheists) are a smarter crowd on average. Case in point, Saudi Arabia and Alabama. If there were more communists around I wouldn't be so cocky though.

Religion is always going to be a shady area concerning logic, not like the universality of science. It is necessary to ask if the universe has some intelligent creator, but it is not logical. Many famous scientists and logical philosophers have been theists in times when belief in god was not as illogical as it seems today. God to them would be like your attempts to judge a person's thoughts during a business deal or during a game of poker (a true american game). You cannot assume a certainty in what they are thinking, but by their body language and background you can get an impression of that "shady" area and make a decent guess.

Weeeee! I believe in GOD!And everyone else will die and suffer eternal damnation! GOD loves me and I love him!

>>169
Prove it.

>>168 Yeah, seconded and signed. Saying "NO INTELLIGENT ENTITY EVAR " is illogical, but saying "Let's sort ourselves and our brittle globe out before we live as if Big Daddy may be watching us" is doing a favor to mankind.

>>164. Totally off topic but I have a hard time beleiving that you're 17.

He means Radical.. Think about it, honestly, dont make asumptions

Xel must be like 13 or something.

>>161

How old are you?

25.

What have you experienced that allows you to thump your chest?

Is this really about me and my ego? No, it's not. (Strike 1) It is basically as I said: "Experience gives you clairity."

Does a more varied and lengthy relationship with the environment intrinsically make for a more credible and balanced organism?

Yes. (Strike 2)

Is theoretical conviction even desirable and a positive trait in a complex reality?

Again: Yes. (Strike 3)

I know I'm being a precocious little motherfuck who'll probably be having different opinions in the future - but since your alpha-male calumny holds little value to me I figured we could dance a little.

Let's dance then, you little dipshit. Oh, but what! I'm up to bat. My assertion is simple: There will always be the unknown. The idea or notion of a God, or omnipotent metaphysical trans-dimension being is seeded in the unknown.

Your "we're going to know everything pretty soon, so let's act like we've already figured out the universe and maybe we'll get there faster" approach to soceity is impetuous and lacks the pragmatism of human kind's wisest and greatest minds- namely, Einstien.

The point I'm also making is that we *do* need to discuss the metaphysical, while we sort out the physical at the same time. Your type of apathy is to blame for christian-fundamentalism. Science struggles against religous-based ignorance now because we let Islam and Rome steal away the notion of 'God'. And it is not as if, anyone is asking you to devote yourself completely to the notion of God. It's just the metaphysical world is something that needs to be possessed by logic or else we leave the decisions and discoveries in that regard up to zealots and televagelists.

Looks like Xel has a new challenger..

<GG>
Heaven or Hell?
Duel 1!

LET'S ROCK!
</GG>

>>158

science doesnt know everything yet. a god could exist; its just that no evidence whatsoever has been found. therefore any god that has an earthly following at this time is completely fictional.

"Does a more varied and lengthy relationship with the environment intrinsically make for a more credible and balanced organism?

Yes. (Strike 2)" - It depends on the situation.

"Is theoretical conviction even desirable and a positive trait in a complex reality?

Again: Yes. (Strike 3)" - Err, no.. it isn't.


www.whywontgodhealamputees.com -coughs-

>>178
Stop posting that stupid site. You only serve to make atheists look stupid. Any theist can say god created this universe and filled it with evil in order to test souls to see if they are worthy to go to heaven, that is why it does not heal amputees, to test their resolve.

>>178

"It depends on the situation."

"The situation" is always the environment. It's "credibility" or "balance" are ability to deal with and adapt the environment.

"Err, no.. it isn't."

Er, yes it fucking is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity
www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

Your link sucks shit for the same reasons Xel (when it comes to this matter of metaphysics) is a child.

>>180 No, the situation in this case is which parts of the environment that has been experienced and in which order. But this is semantics - what I meant to argue was that more input/output between and organism and the surroundings does not necessarily make for a more amicable/intelligent/reasonable/trustworthy individual. Experience = Credibility and maturity either, due to cognitive imperfections in perception and mental patterns (one can experience but still be too prejudiced or self-deluding to fail to learn a lesson). A human with poor values in such variables can become king of the hill as well, but usually at the unfair expense of others (case in point, Ivy League bending over to get as many children of previous alumni as possible enrolled, dictators et al.).
Regarding the criticizm that I want to blot out meta-physical hypothesizing and reasoning in favor of reality-based focus on wordly issues - I understand if my position is vague. What I seek is not to turn off the debate altogether to rob religious people of ammo, but rather explain the folly of using super-dimensional entities and *hypothetical* factors to back up arguments referring to worldly matters. (For example, christians like Mark Steyn say we must turn to the christian work ethic and industrious values of western culture to survive the muslim onslaught. According to these people christian values prevent practices such as slavery, while it says quite clearly in the Old Testament that slavery is a-ok. Then they say that the Old Testament is allegory, that it does not invalidate other biblical teachings. Then I wonder if Eve's original sin is allegory, and if Jesus died for allegorical sins. We should not have to refer to 'god' to become industrious and anti-islamist adults, especially when said god is a genocidal, homophobic paternalistic cunt.) What I mean is that while we can and should discuss the nature of the universe and the possibility of a sentient creator, we must put our foot down the minute said sentient creator is used as leverage in human issues such as abortion. God/Tiamat/Whomever may exist - I like to discuss that. What they may have said and dictated is not for us to follow, because it is apparent that they know shit about human nature.

>>181
That may be true, however, the same reasoning could be applied yourself. Indeed, what is your basis for believing you know more, and thus be in a position to judge them? Sociology nor physics nor politics are moral authorities. Perhaps you realise you are not in any credible position, revealing that you are simply a hypocrite?

>>179 "Any theist can say god created this universe and filled it with evil in order to test souls to see if they are worthy to go to heaven, that is why it does not heal amputees, to test their resolve." - Yeah, a lot Christians make up a lot of excuses for why God doesn't help people and save victims during rape. It's all a part of God's 'plan'.

>>180 This thread is about religion right? My post was merely pertaining to religion, somehow, a few of us got off topic. We don't need religion in a complex reality and so on. Also, that link serves as a helping means of providing thought and reasoning.

>>181 If Jesus died for our sins, then why is everyone still born with sin? (As Christians still proclaim.) Jesus' sacrifice should've wiped those sins out as well.

Cheers,
Kumori

Expanding on >>183 ">>181 If Jesus died for our sins, then why is everyone still born with sin? (As Christians still proclaim.) Jesus' sacrifice should've wiped those sins out as well."

If God exsists Jesus exists. If Jesus exists he died to expunge me of my sins. If that is the case then I can go out and kill somebody with no fear because Jesus died for me. I am going to heaven.

If God doesn't exist there is no one to judge me for my actions. Ergo I can go out and kill someone with no fear of ever being judged. I will die and nothing will happen to me because God/Heaven/Hell does not exist.

Quod erat demonstratum.

>>182 If one looks at reality and covers for all variables, cross-checking and all that, then one can say "This is so until counter-evidence becomes heavier than the other scale". The problem with religion is that people depend on the notion of this super-natural entity, and when this notion is chafed they are as well, reducing their capacity for rational thinking and comporting their opinions and actions with reality. This goes for any irrational opinions of course (my stance on, say, healthcare could be proven to be uneconomical, unethical, non-utilitarian and not comporting with human nature and current factors, and then I would gladly change my position. Thus far, however, the facts and the logic doesn't chafe with I believe) but since god and 'his' various scriptures (including the Qu'ran et al.) permeates the world for these people, their irrationality goes deeper and wider.

>>184 But if you can kill anyone anyone can kill you, so if you kill randomly you die. My philosophy (subject to change) consists of considering every single human case being me, meaning that if one person is discriminated on grounds outside of her responsibility, I could be, and am, discriminated on grounds outside of my responsibility and therefore I must defend this person the same way I would defend myself.

>>186
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes

Why cant religion threads ever die with people agreeing to disagre? Not every beleiber is a fundimentalist and not every non beliver wants to murder priests. Most of the time there is a happy medium. Just let the fucking thread die.

>>183
>>186
>>188

Or maybe Xel and Kumori should pull their heads out of their asses. Their form of attack is truly pathetic, in that, they seem to focus solely on Christianity because that's the easiest religion to pick apart. Well, see, I agree: Christianity and most Semetic religions are bunk.

Where they fail at, however, is making blanket statements on metaphysics with degrees of certainity in an uncertain world. In their childish ramblings they don't understand that they execute the same process of belief that a fundamentalist does when they go off like this.

We all got over Christianity in High School, kids. And by providing further lip service to them- while at the same time subtlely downplaying the idea of God or omnipresence is just fucking stupid for the same reasons I state in >>175. After reading some of Einstien's quotes on God from his youth to his twighlight I've arrived at my own conclusion that you can't dismantle religion or spirituality by desconstructing Christianity, the same way you can't destroy science by saying Malthusianism was wrong, or this theory here (or there) didn't pan out.

Uncertainty is the only constant in a complex reality, and so, things that address this uncertainty (spirituality, science) are definately needed. And this, I feel, is proven by humankinds dominance, surviviability, etc....

>>189

Belief isn\'t necessarily a fact. Xel and Kumori were merely weighing and examining things out in front of them based on fact, not belief. They aren\'t being fundamentalists by doing that.

Also, Christianity is the biggest religion, which is why it\'s easy to pick out. Not to mention one that most certainly has caused much violence, brainwashing and crap in history. Christianity = Western Taliban

>>188

because that is the route theists take when they realise they are loosing.

>>185
You didn't answer the question. What makes you superior?

>>184
Expanding on >>183 ">>181 If Jesus died for our sins, then why is everyone still born with sin? (As Christians still proclaim.) Jesus' sacrifice should've wiped those sins out as well."

If God exsists Jesus exists. If Jesus exists he died to expunge me of my sins. If that is the case then I can go out and kill somebody with no fear because Jesus died for me. I am going to heaven.

You don't know much of anything about Christianity, so I'd suggest you do your research before you lamely attempt to deconstruct a whole religion with high school logic. Most Christian denominations you have to confess or pray for forgiveness for your sins. The point of Jesus dying was so that all you had to do was ask for forgiveness and God would grant it. Catholocism especially is focused on confessing. If you commit a mortal sin (murder, suicide, etc.) and die without confessing you go to hell.

Not what I believe, but being a former Christian I know what they believe.

So if evolution is true it means there was no garden of eden. And thus the whole book is a load of shit.. right. Just one thing. What page does it tell you to take this all literally, cause some cultures do not take their religous texts literally as christians tend to. But since they all are I'm sure they only do so cause the bible tells tehm to.

I'm still impressed with the way god made sure there was a pair of every animal within walking distance of Noah's home. "But that is allegory! Symbolic! SAme thing with Eve's lapse in Eden!" say christians who cling to their useless, tasteless pacifier. Symbolic?! So Jesus had himself tortured and executed for a symbolic sin by a non-existent individual? Lol. Lol lol lol lol lol lol.

>>189 Blanket statements? I say that the existence of a super-dimensional entity is a possibility but not something we can investigate until we've disassembled this universe and started to look in the others. I want to discuss that possibility now however. What I disagree with, what I abhor, is that some people use the power of such a notion to prop up their arguments and destroy their own capacity for rational behavior and that of their children. When we retailate and pick apart their illusion they scream "Atheist inquisition! Left-wing agenda! What about the christian work-ethic! Where will we find the moxie to defend ourselves against the Muslims?!". Dear hearts, if we need the banner of a paternalistic, genocidal fuck who knows nothing about the crowns of his creation and who failed high school ethics to keep our civilization together then I don't care if it crumbles to dust. I'll fight for the right of my mother to show her face, my right to play video-games and say "god is dead" out loud or the rights of my friends to kiss a dude in the streets but not for retarded *morality*.

>>200 get

>>200 get

Thread over. Faggotry=very yes.

THIS THREAD ENDS HERE

I R TEH JESUS THREAD!!!!! LOLOLOLOL


Ressurection time.

>>203
Sorry you are only allowed 1 day then u have to gb2 heaven.

There is  LOL RELIGION PENIS RIOT goin on in /b/ at the moment

>>205
who cares faggot

Changing gears. lets pick appary a religion other than christianity for a change. I say we start with islam, then go onto hinduism and finish off with buddhism.

>>207

DONT forget Zostaranism!

I think your a dumbass no-one is truly free...
 Man kind's sole purpose is not to realize its sole purpose thus everyone cages themselves, to protect them from knowing the truth or knowing the opposite of the truth...

>>209
Prove it or I am afraid you will just have to admit you are wrong in front of everyone.

>>210
its philosophy it needs not be proven... just taken as is, digested, and you chose where you decie to go from there...

>>211
I judge the philosophy that you need proof to believe in things by it\'s effects since from what I have hitherto seen everything that can be proven is true. Your philosophy is no different from the conceivably infinite things which also cannot be proven, therefore it is a waste of time digesting your \"philosophy\".

Become an hero.

>>212

 then wouldn't be a waste to digest any philospohy, according to you...

The last part of this thread is made of OT and time paradox >:|

>>211
That doesn\'t make any sense. Give me an example of a philosophy you think I would not digest.

Why aren't there more objectivists?

>>18
>>1
Truth never gets outdated. This video game on the other hand has aged badly. It's painful to listen to. http://vault.digitalmzx.net/show.php?id=967

Oh god brain overload.

EW, JEWS!

Objectivism is only for the heroic. Most would rather sit in Momma's basement, masturbate, and play WoW.