Holocaust denial

I have been reading a lot of stuff recently, some of which has disturbed me.  There are a lot of people out there who say the Holocaust, that horrible time in history they taught us about in school never really happened the way they say it did. 

They cite how there's no way camps like auschewits(sp?) had the capacity to eliminate as many people as they said were held there.  They talk about how zyklon-b wasn't really powerful enough to kill anyone, and those showers apparently outfitted with this chemical were actually used for a delousing procedure.  They talk about how it doesn't make any sense to trick people into going to their death when you've already got them in your custody.

I don't know man; holocaust deniers seem to have information to back them up, all kinds of evidence, to which the holocaust sympathizers only have name calling and questioning the motives of those who deny it.  I am someone who really would like to believe that the holocaust happened, if only so that I can believe there isn't a vast conspiracy behind it.  So, any holocaust sympathizers with a good rebuttal to what they're saying?

history is written by the victors, facts only get in the way.  unless you were actually there, you have no choice but to trust someone else's word for it one way or the other.

since holocaust sympathizers are much more numerous than holocaust deniers, you should just believe the sympathizers.  less chance of being ostracized.

We know it happened becuase there are photos of human reamins burned up in giant ovens, and of mass graves of rotting corpses, and photos of people (still living who were starved down to 60lbs, and becuase people who were there, INCLUDING people who were german, people who were going to be tried or ostricised for life for being part of it, say it happened. There was an article in the Washington Post magazine a few weeks ago where they were talking to a Female SS oficer who worked in a womans camp, who, even as she was trying to defend herself by saying she never hit or kicked the prisoners, admited that she stood back while people were mauled to death by dogs, and could smell burning human flesh if she opened the windows in her home.

Quote from somewhere else:

Actually the 'Holocaust' has been inquired into by many people. They all go to jail or get death threats though, so many don't speak out. I think that the Holohoax was a hoax. Intellectually, I'm curious if it was not only a way for the Jews to punish the Germans but also to scam the world out of billions (which they have) and a piece of land owned rightfully by another people.

My degree is in history. I wouldn't ever dare say anything. I'm under threat of losing my job,being hounded socially, and/or being killed.

The actual numbers of 'holocaust truthseekers/revionists/"Deniers"/whatever' are actually pretty high and the only ones that would even attempt it are people whose area of expertise is history. There are actually quite a few public ones, but you never hear about them because the media keeps a lid on them. The media is not objective.

http://pubweb.northwestern.edu/~abutz/
http://www.revisionists.com/
http://www.ihr.org/
http://www.zundelsite.org/
http://germarrudolf.com/
http://www.fpp.co.uk/
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/Giant/
http://www.vho.org/

What atleast three people are in jail for 'holocaust denial' in Europe. An Israeli/Jewish(duh) lawyer wants to put the head-honcho of Iran in jail for 'Holocaust denial.' Let's see...
There was also this one guy in France that published something indirectly critical of the six million myth (historian with degree,) they came into his house without warning, arrested him temporarily, searched his house, and burned his papers. They told him that if he published any more 'holocaust denial' he would spend several years in jail, minimum sentence.

There are all sorts of stories like this.

Who cares if it was 5.6 million of 400 thousand or forty thousand or four thousand?  It happened in some amount.

Quote from somewhere else with minor changes:

Look, I always love how people just run around in circles talking about tertiary issues like survivor stories (people can lie, and they lie even better when you can get 1 million for being a 'holocaust survivor!' No joke, look at how much these people were actually PAID.) as if they were some form of refutation to:

(I'm too lazy to resort the numbers)

2. If the Jewish population was 1/2th'd or 1/3ed'd (I forget which) then why in the hell did their population go up during WWII? That's alotta babies!

(Note: According to some sources, the Jewish population did go up. However, you can get a better idea of the real problem with the population analysis by reading this book.
http://vho.org/dl/ENG/Hoax.pdf
)

3. Why did the 'anti-semetic' organization of the !Red Cross! give the German concentration camps their seal of approval? (They inspected the camps.)

4. Why wasn't there any testimony /not under TORTURE and threats to kill family members/ that there were concentration camps?

5. The Germans were always fastitious in keeping records. How come these things weren't recorded.

6. Why were there only around 300,000-400,000 people detained in concentration camps on record (including criminals, traitors, gypsies, Jews, and other people the National Socialists didn't approve of) if six MILLION were killed? The Germans kept records of EVERYTHING.

7. How precisely did the Germans manage to cremate six million people. People who specialize in cremation have said this was patently impossible. The ashes of six million people would be VISIBLE FROM SPACE. The ironic thing I keep on thinking of is that when you look at all these concentration camps, and think to yourself... 6,000,000? These camps would have trouble with a couple of thousand...

8. Zyklon B was used as a delousing agent. It's known that the Germans wrote plenty of letters talking about how to increase the quality of life for the people in concentration camps (not Jews specifically but indirectly.) I guess that's why they built swimming pools, orchestras, and soccor fields for the people in the concentration camps. Why go to all that trouble if you're just going to kill people?

9.Zyklon B sucks at killing people. It's like trying to kill somebody by putting them in a bathroom you just bleached. Yes, the National Socialists somehow managed to kill six million people using something about as deadly as smelling bleach. The only reason why Zyklon B would even be suggested, as ludiocrous as it is, would be because the National Socialists didn't keep any truly lethal hazardous gases around. Yes, six million Jews were fumigated to death. (Rolls eyes) Beyond ridiculous. The Nazis must have also poisoned them with salt in the hopes that they would grow diamond bunions! Just come up with something ridiculous and easily proven to be untrue! If it's about the holocaust, you can get sent to jail for doubting it in Europe and the truth is not a defense.

10. If the National Socialists wanted to kill people, by God they could kill people. A tiny European nation taking on the rest of Europe, Russia, and the United States proves that beyond a doubt. The Germans could kick serious ass and were definately hardcore. So, why in the Hell, didn't they just go ahead and dig pits like Stalin and just shoot people while in the pits. The Germans were very efficiency minded people. They didn't have a lot to waste in the first place. Why not just shoot the Jews and reuse the casings? Why do some crazy evil genius type plan? Shower heads? With Gas? It goes totally against every single National Socialist ideal. If the National Socialists wanted you dead, they'd shoot you in the head. Quick and efficient. No bullshit. They'd also shoot you somewhere so the mess would be easy to clean up. In short, no silly underhanded plans from these guys. That's too 'Jewish' for a National Socialist.

11. The first 'holocaust' storied were something around 40 million Jews, or some ridiculous number like that. Over time, the numbers decreased. The first stories were of things like electro-shock chambers and other ridiculous ideas. Over time, the stories that were just totally unbelievable lies managed to get weeded out. Eventually, after people actually genetically tested them, the soap and the lamp shade stories (the lie is that they made out of Jews) were proven false using modern technology. No human skin or fat. Ironically, the German soap that was tested was actually without fat if I remember correctly, a rather cheaply made soap because the Germans had shortages of everything, even fuel (V2 rockets were made with ethanol if my memory serves correctly. The one thing the Germans had an endless supply of was practical genius.)

12. It goes against the National Socialist modus operandi. Look, if somebody suggested the systematic extermination of somebody, then guess what a National Socialist would say to you, "That sounds like something a Jew would do." They took this thing very seriously. National Socialists are sort of like the modern day and practical extension of those guys that sat in ranks and agreed to shoot each other. They were VERY concerned with honor, dignity, and fair play. They screwed over the Jews, but that's because the Jews screwed over them, or so their story goes. Some things they simply wouldn't have done, because they would have considered them Jewish. Let me point out to you that many Jewish holidays celebrate the Jewish slaughter of their enemies, and the old testament has a couple of stories of Jews gleefully slaughtering entire peoples, sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, and even LIVESTOCK. The Jews are quite ethnocentric and you don't survive as a collective in alien environments by being nice. A National Socialist would tell you straight up that they didn't like Jews, although not all of them were bad, but wiping out all of them would be Jewish ideal and not German. Hitler talked about setting up a place for Jews in Madagascar.

13. No gas chambers. No prussian blue staining. Killing six million people with gas leaves physical traces. HUGE physical traces. Remember, the ashes of six million Jews would be visible from SPACE. The Germans didn't have enough time to crematories to cremate six million Jews. Even with today's technology, they wouldn't have been able to cremate six million Jews in such a small space. Crematoriums have to be cleaned and prepared; you can only cremate so many people a day.

14. Where are the documents on how to use and activate gas chambers? When did the scientists meet to discuss the most efficient and safe methods? Real gas chambers include extremely detailed procedures because the poison gas that REAL gas chambers use is dangerous (unlike Zyklon B which a third of the population of Europe probably had on its clothes and furniture.)
In real gas chambers, people shake hair to get out traces of deadly gas, strap down the judged, and lock them inside a steel airtight room, not inside a brick house with a wooden door and an opening to the crematorium especially if the gas is explosive (and Zyklon B is. Holocaust mythologicians state that this was deemed feasible because the concentration of Zyklon B would have been low enough to not cause explosions. BS. You don't use explosive gas right next to an incinerator. When they were making up the story they should have considered a better place for the gas chamber, instead of trying to cover up such a silly lie. One slip up and half the camp explodes. Minor explosions on a daily basis. BS.)

15. Auschwitz. Number killed at one stage, 4 mil. Changed the sign to like 2mil. Then to 1.5 mil. Then to 1mil. I think they recently changed it or are thinking about changing it to 800 something thousand. Why the change? A colleague of mine once made a joke that Jewish math goes something like this:
 6,000,000
-6,000,000
-----------
 6,000,000

Some things are funny because they're true.

Look, I could come up with detractions from the six million myth all day. There are so many proofs, undeniable proofs, against the six million myth or the systematic killing myth that I can't even LIST them all from memory (and I've done a lot of research in this area.)

Quite frankly, in open debate with openminded people, the holohoax is dead. The holocaust mythologicians are clutching at straws. They have problems even proving that it COULD have happened. Once we get past the COULD have happened, then maybe we'll think about if it DID. As things stand, it looks like the holocaust both COULDN'T have happened and DIDN'T happen.

The Germans mistreated some people in the concentration camps, but they didn't systematically murder anybody. They probably treated the concentration camp members better than the Japanese were treated in the US during their internment, and for a longer time. I'm an American and I have no problems saying this, the truth is the truth. Case closed.

There are also the german medical books which detail procedures done to jewish prisoners, such as atmosphere deprevation, limb  and organ replacement surgery, experimental drug use, and exposure experiments (exposing them to high amounts of ultraviolet light, freezing temperatures, excessive contact with electricity, long term contact with various corrosive compounds.)   I mean, there are thousands of journals which show that and more with suprisingly minute detail.

Continued:

Make sure that they are 'counters' and not misdirections. I'm tired of Holocaust mythologitians of not actually tackling the issue of PROVING that six million people died, but rather saying... "Oh look, here is a picture of somebody starving that means that the nazis killed six million people."

No, it doesn't. Especially if such an act as the holohoax would have required the nazis to call upon molech or something in order to get the power to bend the laws of nature.

Holocaust=Religion
It even has its own inquisition! Look at all the people jailed, or being tried under holocaust 'denial' laws like Nick Griffin.

Also, be sure that the proof cited by the people trying to further the existence of the holocaust lie are proving that six million died, not that Jews died at the hands of Germans. Jews did die in concentration camps, but a systematic extermination is a far cry from typhus (which they tried to keep down using ironically Zyklon B) or starvation (which was endemic in Germany at the end of the war.)

In other words, if a Jew dies in Germany, that does not prove the holocaust.
                                                                Jews dying != Holocaust                                                         Holocaust=systematic extermination of Jews in a rather ridiculous way.                                                                                                                                                                        

Furthermore, the logical structure of the argument that holocaust mythologicians use is thus:                                                                                                                           If Jews were systematically exterminated Jews died.               Jews died.
Therefore:
Jews were systematically exterminated.                                                                                                                        


This follows the logical form of:                                                                                                                             
A->B
B
-----
A

This is a logical fallacy known as affirming the consequent.

If Jews were systematically killed, of course they were killed. However, Jews dying does not mean they were systematically killed. People die for all sorts of reasons, there is no bidirectionality of death being linked to death by systematic extermination. That would mean that, for instance, because my grandmother died she died by systematic extermination in Germany. This is patently untrue and ridiculous. She died from  disease in another country entirely.

>>7

provide a source. I'm into history. I'd like to see this.

1. I went through a couple of different sites and actually examined some of the photos.
First of all, the medical experiment photos showed starving children. It's a well known fact that many holocaust photos have had to be retracted because they have been proven to be fakes.

Shoes-> Shoes were actually pretty close to that Zyklon B gas! Zyklon B was used to fumigate clothing and furniture. In Auschwitz they actually had an area that was used to fumigate clothing to keep down deaths (which was one thing that the managers were afraid of... You know, because a Jew is only allowed to die by 'de gassings!,' any other dying is forbodden! Err... Wait.. That doesn't make sense... Oh well, holocaust logic DOESN'T make sense.)

glasses-> shows a pile of victims. Upon closer examination, shows a pile of GLASSES. The picture is blown up, but if the size of the glasses are any indicator, the pile of 'victims' is actually very small, and looks to be a pile of eyeglasses.

belsen->Starvation and disease. No gas chambers.
Quote:
So, it was the newsreels of the liberation of Belsen that brought home to the British public the existence of gas chambers and the Nazi extermination camps and the reality of Hitler's "Final Solution."

Well, no, actually. According to Jo Reilly, it was more the case that reports of the liberation confused the public's understanding of all these points. Belsen had no gas chambers and was not an extermination camp.

Belsen prisoners- If anything, it had been one of the less brutalised camps, since one of its purposes had been to hold some prominent Jews for exchange with interned Germans.
..........

Showing a picture of 30 people in a mass grave does not six million make.


Some of the pictures and the sources are so ludicrous that I didn't even bother with them. The picture of a 'nazi terrorizing a Jew' shows the 'nazi' with his foot slightly raised and obscured by what is supposed to be the 'Jew'. It shows three people laughing around him. All three people are a great distance away from him. They don't look like the street gangbangers that get real close and crowd and start kicking people. The closest one has his Considering that you usually don't beat people with the inside of your foot, and the soldier looks like he has his hand extended, it looks more like to me that he's about to help the guy stand up.


The pictures I say say they told the story of the holocaust, but it looks more like to me that you are TOLD a story about those pictures. The pictures are mildly suggestive or emotional at best. They don't prove the holocaust. Someone with a more keen observation would probably be able to find more flaws and contradictions than me.

And I haven't even done in searches on sites showing that certain pictures are actually pictures of soviets and THEIR mass graves. A great many holocaust 'photos' have also been proven to be fakes. Here's a quick example. You can search several sites for more.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/fake/SWCsmokeFake.html

Here is another one:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/fake/USHMMDachauFake.html

Watch Auschwitz: The Forgotten Evidence on The History Channel.  The Nazis used bullets when their furnaces were too crowded.

A gas chamber door doesn't have to be air tight.  You can let toxic fumes leak out of it and it will be too dispersed to affect anyone on the outside.

I believe people were detained, and people were cremated alive, but not all people that were detained were cremated.  In other words, 6 million people detained but not 6 million people killed.  The detained consisted of communists, gypsies, homosexuals, and others, not just Jews.  So saying there were several million "victims" is correct if you count every person placed in a concentration camp including non-Jews. 

The actual number is nothing more than an estimate, which is probably rounded up from 5.5 or 5.6 million, just like the WTC victims were rounded up to 5,000 get a more devastating bodycount than the actual number. 

>>11

.....
Here's why this is a totally unbalanced statement.

There are no six million bodies. There isn't even six million people's worth of ash.

Bullets are a way of killing, not of disposing of bodies. Crematoriums and bullets have nothing in common. The alternate method is BURYING.

I'm sorry. For some reason I think that the story of nazis shooting dead bodies instead of burying them when the crematoriums got too full is a little silly.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Auschw120842.html

quote:
This document refers to an incident where an SS man named Theuer was almost killed by accidentally inhaling some gas fumes from Zyklon B after an overnight fumigation. That some of the gas was caught in a few "pockets" is not unusual in areas treated by Zyklon. The incident was examined at length during the Auschwitz Trial by the former head of disinfestation and fumigation at Auschwitz, Artur Breitweiser. He was declared innocent of any crimes by the court.

It was published by Jean Claude Pressac in his Auschwitz: Operation and Technique of the Gas Chambers. At page 188, Pressac writes:

    "This text, which previously appeared to be damning proof of the existence of homocidal gas chambers can no longer be accepted as such."

As Pressac noted, 42 copies of the document were made; therefore it was not at all secret. The document clearly is dealing with fumigations and delousing. Exterminationists stay clear of this document these days because it directly contradicts their claims of "twenty-minute gassings".

--------------

In order to be killed by Zyklon B, you have to be exposed to it for a fairly long time at a high concentration. Otherwise, it just makes you really sick. It also kills very slowly. It was an insecticide used throughout Europe for delousing.

There were far more deadly and cheaper gasses available for killing human beings, although I doubt that the National Socialists were particularly big on accidently killing themselves by not using a sealed area with properly controlled ventilation for one of the gasses actually designed to kill humans.

Another thing few people ever bring up that people have been posting on here. Above the Aushwitz enterance (or one concentration camp) there are the words arbeit macht frei, which means "Work makes you free." Jewish labor was a huge boon to the nazis. The nazis provided the inmates with medical care, dentistry, soccer fields, an ochestra building, and a swimming pool and they regularly fumigated for typhus which was carried by lice. They worried about keeping the Jews alive because the JEWS WERE MAKING THEM MONEY. The concentration camp labor was USEFUL. They wanted MORE laborers, NOT FEWER.

The people for the holocaust don't even mention this. It flies in the face of logic and common sense.

Quote:
    According to the holocaust legend, Jewish prisoners who arrived at Auschwitz between the spring of 1942 and the fall of 1944, and who were not able to work, were immediately put to death and that no records were kept of such deaths (even though all other deaths where recorded in detail)......

The Diminishing Numbers of
Alleged Dead in Auschwitz

9,000,000
Source: Cited by the French documentary, Night and Fog, which has been shown to millions of school students worldwide.

8,000,000
Source: The French War Crime Research Office, Doc. 31, 1945.

7,000,000
Source: Also cited by the French War Crime Research Office.

6,000,000
Source: Cited in the book Auschwitz Doctor by Miklos Nyiszli. It has since been proven that this book is a fraud and the "doctor" was never even at Auschwitz, even though the book is often cited by historians.

5,000,000 to 5,500,000
Source: Cited in 1945 at the trial of Auschwitz commander Rudolf Höss, based on his confession which was written in English, a language he never spoke.

5,000,000
Source: Cited on April 20, 1978 by the French daily, Le Monde. Also cited on January 23, 1995 by the German daily Die Welt. By September 1, 1989, Le Monde reduced the figure to 1,433,000.

4,500,000
Source: In 1945 this figure was cited by another witness at the aforementioned Höss trial.

4,000,000
Source: Cited by a Soviet document of May 6, 1945 and officially acknowledged by the Nuremberg War Crimes trial. This figure was also reported in The New York Times on April 18, 1945, although 50 years later on January 26, 1995, The New York Times and The Washington Post slashed the figure to 1,500,000 citing new findings by the Auschwitz Museum officials. In fact, the figure of 4,000,000 was later repudiated by the Auschwitz museum officials in 1990 but the figure of 1,500,000 victims was not formally announced by Polish President Lech Walesa until five years after the Auschwitz historians had first announced their discovery.

3,500,000
Source: Cited in the 1991 edition of the Dictionary of the French Language and by Claude Lanzmann in 1980 in his introduction to Filip Muller's book, Three Years in an Auschwitz Gas Chamber.

3,000,000
Source: Cited in a forced confession by Rudolf Höss, the Auschwitz commander who said this was the number of those who had died at Auschwitz prior to Dec. 1, 1943. Later cited in the June 7, 1993 issue of Heritage, the most widely read Jewish newspaper in California, even though three years previously the authorities at the Auschwitz museum had scaled down the figure to a minimum of 1,100,000 and a maximum of 1,500,000. (see below).

2,500,000
Source: Cited by Rudolf Vrba (an author of various fraudulent accounts of events he claims to have witnessed at Auschwitz) when he testified on July 16, 1981 for the Israeli government's war crimes trial of former SS official Adolf Eichmann.

2,000,000
Source: Cited by Leon Poliakov (1951) writing in Harvest of Hate; Georges Wellers, writing in 1973 in The Yellow Star at the Time of Vichy; and Lucy Dawidowicz, writing in 1975 in The War Against the Jews.

2,000,000 to 4,000,000

Source: Cited by Yehuda Bauer in 1982 in his book, A History of the Holocaust. However, by 1989 Bauer revised his figure to 1,600,000.

1,600,000
Source: This is a 1989 revision by Yehuda Bauer of his earlier figure in 1982 of 2,000,000 to 4,000,000, Bauer cited this new figure on September 22, 1989 in The Jerusalem Post, at which time he wrote "The larger figures have been dismissed for years, except that it hasn't reached the public yet."

1,500,000
Source: In 1995 this was the number of Auschwitz deaths announced by Polish President Lech Walesa as determined by those at the Auschwitz museum. This number was inscribed on the monument at the Auschwitz camp at that time, thereby "replacing" the earlier 4,000,000 figure that had been formally repudiated (and withdrawn from the monument) five years earlier in 1990. At that time, on July 17, 1990 The Washington Times reprinted a brief article from The London Daily Telegraph citing the "new" figure of 1,500,000 that had been determined by the authorities at the Auschwitz museum. This new figure was reported two years later in a UPI report published in the New York Post on March 26, 1992. On January 26, 1995 both The Washington Post and The New York Times cited this 1,500,000 figure as the new "official" figure (citing the Auschwitz Museum authorities).

1,471,595
Source: This is a 1983 figure cited by Georges Wellers who (as noted previously) had determined, writing in 1973, that some 2,000,000 had died.

1,433,000
Source: This figure was cited on September 1, 1989 by the French daily, Le Monde, which earlier, on April 20, 1978, had cited the figure at 4,000,000.

1,250,000
Source: In the book, The Destruction of the European Jews, by Raul Hilberg (1985).

1,100,000 to 1,500,000
Source: Sources for this estimate are Yisrael Gutman and Michael Berenbaum in their 1984 book, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp. This estimate was later also cited by Walter Reich, former director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, writing in The Washington Post on September 8, 1998. The upper figure of 1,500,000 is (the new) "official" figure as now inscribed at Auschwitz, with the earlier figure of 4,000,000 having been removed from the memorial at the site of the former concentration camp.

1,000,000
Source: Jean-Claude Pressac, writing in his 1989 book Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers. This is interesting since he wrote his book to repudiate so-called "Holocaust deniers" who were called that precisely because they had questioned the numbers of those who had died at Auschwitz.

900,000
Source: Reported on August 3, 1990 11, by Aufbau, a Jewish newspaper in New York.

800,000 to 900,000
Source: Reported by Gerald Reitlinger in his book, The Final Solution.

775,000 to 800,000
Source: Jean-Claude Pressac's revised figure, put forth in his 1993 book, The Crematoria of Auschwitz: The Mass Murder's Machinery, scaling down his earlier claim of 1,000,000 dead.

630,000 to 710,000
Source: In 1994 Pressac scaled his figure down somewhat further; this is the figure cited in the German language translation of Pressac's 1993 book originally published in French. Again, this is substantially less than Pressac's 1989 figure of 1,000,000.

135,000 to 140,000
Source: This is an estimate based on documents held by the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross. It is known that International Tracing Service has a complete set of registration documents. This is thought to include a complete set of roll-call data which includes twice daily tallies of those who died. Although the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross has such records, they have never officially published an accurate count of those who died, or even an accurate report as to exactly which documents they hold. However, totals from these records have been obtained by various interested parties.

The estimate of 135,000 is roughly corroborated by the "Auschwitz death books." The death books themselves are wartime German camp records, which were captured by the Soviets towards the end of the war, and hidden in Soviet achieves, until released to the Red Cross in 1989.

The death books consist of 46 volumes which document each death at Auschwitz (each death certificate consists of the deceased person's full name, profession and religion, date and place of birth, pre-Auschwitz residence, parents' names, time of death, and cause of death as determined by a camp physician). The records for the most important years, 1942 and 1943, are almost complete (there are also a few volumes for the year 1941, but none for the year 1944 or January 1945 (when Auschwitz was evacuated)).

The Auschwitz death books contain the death certificates of some 69,000 individuals, of whom about 30,000 were listed as Jews. You may view various entries in the Auschwitz Death Books by clicking on the following links to the Auschwitz museum:
About the Auschwitz Death Books
Searching the Auschwitz Death Books
Using all available wartime records from the various camps it has been estimated that between 400,000 and 500,000 people died in the German concentration camp system (from all causes).
The above mentioned, ever declining numbers of alleged dead at Auschwitz, are graphically illustrated by the following pictures of plaques from the camp.
The first is the plaque that was on display at the Auschwitz camp from 1948 until 1989 (note the "4 million" victims).
The second is the plaque currently on display at Auschwitz.
Note the dramatically reduced number of victims, now only 1.5 million.
A casual reduction in the number of deaths by some 2.5 million.
Deaths at Auschwitz drop by a whopping 2.5 million, but 6,000,000 dead Jews, remains the same.

Some entries from the Auschwitz death books.
According to the holocaust legend, Jewish prisoners who arrived at Auschwitz between the spring of 1942 and the fall of 1944, and who were not able to work, were immediately put to death and that no records were kept of such deaths (even though all other deaths where recorded in detail).

German journalist and researcher Wolfgang Kempkens, obtained copies of some 800 of the death certificates from sources in Poland and Russia. Reproductions of 30 of these certificates appeared in the article "Pages From The Auschwitz Death Registry Volumes" by Mark Weber, Journal of Historical Review vol 12 p 265.

We provide the following selection from the 30, to show that the old and weak appear among the death certificates of the Auschwitz death books, proving that the claim that "all who were not able to work, were immediately put to death" is false.

Josef Hoffmann, a Jewish butcher, was 89 years old when he died of "old age" on June 22, 1942.

Abraham Stieber, a Jewish salesman from Slovakia, was 79 years old when he died on July 2, 1942, of "old age."

Chaim Richter, a Jewish salesman, was 81 years old when he died in Auschwitz on March 1, 1942, of "weakness of old age."

Josephine Kohn, a Jewish inmate born in Hungary who had been living in Leipzig, was 69 years old when she died on February 10, 1943. Auschwitz camp physician Dr. Kitt reported "weakness of old age" as the cause of death.

Emil Kaufmann, a Jewish attorney deported from Germany, was 78 years old when he died of "old age" on February 15, 1943. "Weakness of old age" is given as the cause of death.

Julius Sonnenberg, a salesman from Germany, was 65 years old when he died on February 27, 1943, of "angina pectoris." His religion is cited as "non-believing, formerly Jewish."

Abraham Blok, a Jewish butcher from the Netherlands, was 70 years old when he died of "old age" on March 6, 1943.

Jettchen Fuld, a Jewish inmate, was 67 years old when she died on October 10, 1942. Old age and physical weakness is given as the cause of death.

Salomon Serlui, a Jewish laborer from the Netherlands, was 67 years old when he died in Auschwitz on October 16, 1942. Camp physician Dr. Kremer reported a stomach ulcer as the cause of death.

Renö Hirschfeld, a Jewish tailor born in Berlin in 1878, was 64 years old when he died on November 2, 1942. Camp physician Dr. Kitt reported "weakness of old age" as the cause of death.

Armin Horn, a Jewish salesman deported to the camp from Slovakia, died on August 19, 1942, at the age of 70. Camp physician Dr. Thilo recorded the cause of death as "accumulation of fluid in the intestine and weakness of old age."

This Auschwitz camp death certificate reports that prisoner Josef Buck, a Jewish teacher from Kattowitz, was 65 years old when he died on August 1, 1941. "Weakness of old age" is given as the cause of death.

Josek Nisenkorn, a Jewish laborer, was 71 years old when he died in Auschwitz on August 11, 1941. "Weakness of old age" is given as the cause of death by camp physician Dr. Siegfried Schwela, who himself later died of typhus.

Samuel Mandel, a Jewish tailor, was 74 years old when he died in Auschwitz on March 26, 1942. Physician Dr. Entress reported the cause of death as "influenza with heart failure."

Ernestine Hochfelder, a Jewish inmate who had been deported to the camp from Slovakia, was 70 years old when she died in Auschwitz on June 4, 1942. "Physical weakness and old age" is cited as the cause of death.

David Reichman, a Jewish farmer, was 70 years old when he died on July 22, 1942, of "old age."

This selection has been chosen to illustrate that the old and weak where not "immediately gassed" as is often claimed, and to point out that according to the death records, many died of old age.

OK, so we've got that the holocaust might not have happened the way we thought it did...  So, why is it that this is going on?  Why create such an immense and detailed conspiracy?  To what end is this being done?

>>19
For the founding and financing of Isreal. Not only did they get their own nation (for free!) but the US has been footing their bills for at least 60 years!

>>16

Source? 

Most of them were not fit to work, but were still kept in concentration camps, especially females, elderly, young, and the weak/malnourished.  Only a small number were in actual labor, which was mostly construction of new buildings, and even that wasn't a great benefit to Germany during the war.  Jews were told they would be forced to work in labor camps, but most were not made to work because they were unfit.  Any benefit to Germany was negligible.

Money, freedom from criticism, social privilege, revenge, and the state of Israel.

That's what the holocaust is all about.

1. Criticizing Jews means you are a nazithatwantstokillsixmillionjews, i.e. an antisemite. Nobody questions why the English carved out a place in the middle east for the Jews via mandate. People were terrified of the Jews power before, but Jews could be criticized in private and that might lead to their eventual expulsion. With the use of the

The holocaust protects Jews from the fact that they are usually the ones that piss on people until those people get incredibly pissed off and kick them out of their country. There are reasons why Jews do this, over and over again, and it has to do with their culture and heritage. Some Jews have, quite unsuccessfully, tried to stop it or slow it down.

Read the Talmud:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/

Ever hear of the USS liberty?:

http://www.ussliberty.org/

How many people in the US question of why in the living daylights are we in the middle east taking over and occupying countries. Our internal security would be better handled if we decreased immigration, which is in the millions.
http://nowarforisrael.com/



2. Money.  I remember one site bragging about how it had gotten
50 billion dollars for 1.5 million people and about half of that for Israel.

http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm
=========

U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact
Summary

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
    Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240
==========

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/reparations/
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p243_Weber.html/

3. Social Privilege- Free money. Free from criticism. Handled gently everywhere. Free from suspicion. Government will send your religious country money if you ask, and if you raise hell all you've got to do is mention 'holocaust' and everybody will be groveling. Also, people actually believe the 'oh woe is me, the world hates the jews. Everybody is evil, and the world needs to be changed for the good of the jews. Everybody is to blame except for the jews. Oh woe is me!' (Sorry, I've listened to Aish.com until I got sick.)

4. Revenge - World Jewry declared war on Germany. They cut off trade and tried to get every country on Earth to go to war with Germany. For the most part, they succeeded. For humiliating them, the Jews pretty darn well hate the National Socialists, and really the Germans too. Elie Wiesel wrote his original Night in Yiddish. It was a huge book and it was full of hatred for the Germans, even though it was admittedly a piece of fiction. When Night was translated to English, much of the hatred for the Germans was taken out, although some choice pieces such as something like 'Every Jew should reserve a place in their heart for hating the Germans' or something like that were kept. I have a copy of Night lying around somewhere, so I'm sure I can find the exact phrase eventually.

Remember, Judaism is an eye for an eye. Jews are not lovy-dovy like Christians.

5. Israel has nukes. Israel has tons of donated money from Western Civilization. Israel exists when it didn't less than a century ago. There are plenty of stories of Israelis mistreating Palestinians, yet people are going on about people desperate enough to blow themselves to pieces in the desperate hope of maybe doing some damage to the invaders. Right now, the US is pining for war with Iran. Why? Not really much of a good reason, the US is clutching for straws. They don't really need one. War with Iran is good for Israel. After all, the area called palestine is actually southern Syria.

The USS liberty isn't mentioned. Foreign aid to Israel 50 years after the holohoax isn't mentioned. The United Nations has instituted an international holocaust day of morning in January. A Jewish history month is coming supposedly. A couple of people from havard that recently said that Israel controls the US foreign policy using money interest, i.e. AIPAC, isn't mentioned. A couple of harvard professors are attacked viciously for this paper. It's true, but the truth isn't any defense for 'anti-semites' (defined as anyone who opposes the Jews... Now how twisted a definition is that?)

Lord, the list goes on and on and on...

>>21


http//ww/...

I see nothing about "medical care, dentistry, soccer fields, an ochestra building, and a swimming pool"

>>24

The swimming pool at Auschwitz by Robert Faurisson
http://www.rense.com/general24/controversy.htm

I think David Cole (a Jew) shows the swimming pool and perhaps points out the ochestra in this, although some people have edited these tapes to stuff only pertaining directly to the holocaust. I haven't downloaded this one yet.
http://vho.org/dl/ENG/DavidColeatAuschwitz.wmv

health care at Auschwitz
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n3p-4_Weber.html

health camp mentioned
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p-67_Weber.html

This talks and shows an open-air ochestra, but I think that there was a closed in building for doing plays and musicals as well..
http://www.cympm.com/orkest.html


There was a memo from somebody at one of the (Auschwitz I think) concentration camps worrying about the high rate of casualties due to unsanitary living conditions. I've been looking for it, but I can't find it. If I find it later, I'll see about posting it.

So now it's Club Med according to your description.  Nazis didn't treat Jews harshly, they didn't beat or kill anyone, they didn't mock Jews or treat them like filth. 

Of course they were deloused and rid of typhoid.  Why would you want anything communicable in a concentrated group of people, especially when it can spread to your officers?  It doesn't mean they were trying to extend detainees' lifespans or give them luxury.  

"One Louse, Your Death!" This bilingual (German-Polish) poster graphically warned Auschwitz inmates of the danger of typhus bearing lice. (p. 54)

>>26

I never said that the concentration camps were THAT nice. They were better than the ones in the US, but they were still forced labor camps. They were labor camps after all, for:

1. Criminals
2. People against the state
3. Non-citizens (i.e. non-germans or people not native to the occupied area)

Look, nobody doubts that nazis killed Jews. Nobody doubts that Jews were mistreated. Japanese were mistreated in the US. The Jews declared war on Germany.

http//www.w/...


As for the spreading of lice, why care when you are just going to kill them? Fire kills lice rather well. You don't have to spend hundreds of man hours delousing their clothes and furniture. You don't have to buy fumigant for cleaning their clothes. In fact, if you were being really cost-concious you could just make mass graves and then shoot people and reuse the casings. The National Socialist Germany went through periods of starvation, lack of resources from fuel to everything else, and labor shortages. Germany was a small country against practically THE ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD, and some other non-western countries as well. U.S., the soviet union, they couldn't afford to waste resources and that included Jews. Heck, V2 rockets were made using ethanol because fuel wasn't readily available. The infamous brownshirts of the National Socialists were army surplus Hitler, ironically, bought from a Jew.

I don't think that Jews were treated like filth generally by the Nazis. I think that some were, and I also think that they were punished in most of those cases. Some of the higher-ups could probably get away with it, but acting like a untermensch was considered bad form in National Socialist Germany. That was generally frowned upon, and they took this sort of thing seriously.

Here are the definitions of national socialist germany from the national socialist german standpoint that are frequently overlooked, and they worked towards this identity in their own definition without fail (and considered the opposite of their ideals to be the Jewish ones.)

1. Honor
2. Dignity
3. Strictness
4. Politeness

I've read quite a few memoirs of Jews, that weren't dripping at the mouth from fear, condemnation, and paranoia at the Germans, remarking on how the Germans were terribly polite. The Germans PRIDED themselves on this. These were the VALUES of their national socialism.  National socialists that didn't act according to these rules were sent to the concentration camps.

According to the racial untermensch and ubermensch theories of the Hitler's NS Germany, Jews couldn't be untermensch or ubermensch. Only white people could be untermensch or ubermensch. I've seen sites all over talking about how hitler considered Jews to be untermensch. This is not true. Jews didn't even FIT into nazi eugenics. NS Germany passed laws banning intermarriage with non-germans but Jews were not considered untermensch. Jews were considered a separate people. NS Germany wanted Germany to be Judenfrei, and that included shipping them somewhere else and keeping them away from the Germany population during the interim.

-------------------
 Nazi Eugenics

The German eugenicist movement was directed primarily against Germans, not Jews. German medical research held that degenerate Whites posed a major threat to German society because of their propensity to greater reproductive levels: in this view, the Nazis were certainly not alone. In 1930, the women's supplement to the Social Democratic Party's newspaper, Vorwaarts, criticized the 1929 Danish sterilization law for not allowing the compulsory sterilization of "inferiors."

In 1931, even the German Communist Party expressed itself in support of sterilization of psychiatric patients under certain conditions. (Racial Hygiene, Medicine under the Nazis, Robert N. Proctor, Harvard University Press, 1988).

As a result of the German Sterilization law, somewhere between 350,000 and 400,000 people had been sterilized in that country by the end of the war in 1945 - none of them Jews and with the only non-Whites being 500 children born of sexual relationships between German women and Black French soldiers who had been used to occupy the Rhineland area after World War One.

Above: Nazi eugenics was primarily concerned with German Whites, not other races. The word "Untermensch" (or sub-man) was actually used to refer to degenerate Whites, not other races. In this illustration from the 1937 publication Volk in Gefahr (A People in Danger), the problem of criminal Whites is addressed so:  "The Threat of the Underman. It looks like this: Male criminals had an average of 4.9 children, criminal marriage, 4.4 children, parents of slow learners, 3.5 children, a German family 2.2 children, and a marriage from the educated circles, 1.9 children."
---------------------

Hey all.  >>1 here.

In the absense of a great ability to do research on my own, I have to analyze the facts that are available to me.  This has lead me to take everything the holocaust deniers have been saying with a whole damn lot of skepticism.

With all this shit that doesn't make sense (6mil bodies should have been visible from space, nevermind the fact that it was all done apart, the argument where you talk about Nazi records, OF FUCKING COURSE there'd be no records that survived, even if they were kept in the first place; when the nazis realized what was going on they would have destroyed them) uncited sources, and just plain hearsay, they've really weakened their argument.

I think that what really destroyed their credibility for me was when the holocaust deniers started trotting out their belief that jews want "revenge," as a people, or that Jews had declared war on Germany.  WTF?  You guys is dumb.

I can now say that the reason I think that there hasn't been a proper rebuttal to all the stuff that's been posted here and elsewhere on the intarweb is because serious historians and intellectuals won't give them the time of day.

I'll just stand by and wait for more people to get suckered into your movement, and then we'll see this shit destroyed in earnest as people start to realize how stupid people can be.

Good day.

Something happenned.

>>28

So, people with PH.Ds in history aren't serious historians?
Why don't you go take a look at the holocaust historians in jail? Why don't you go take a look at Arthur Butz? Some of these guys not only have one doctorate, but MULTIPLE doctorates. They also get thrown in jail for thought crimes where the truth is literally no defense. Hmm, jailing intellectuals... Sounds familiar...

Some guy said revenge was an aspect of it. It probably is. Jews get pissed off like anybody else. Oh noes, they is human and they do evil too.  Duh, Sherlock.

Can't say bad jew or you a nazithatwantstokillsixmillionjews.

Why don't you actually go READ those links. Scared?

As for records, the nazis were the type of people that categorized what their grandmother ate for lunch. Some of those Auschwitz documents had twenty different copies or MORE, across all of frickin' Germany. 

When that guy talks about the six million myth and that ashes from space thing, he's talking about the fact you can't hide six million corpses. The numbers were set using rumor-mongering, tortured confessions, and pay-offs. The actual records were too small to satisfy the jews. It couldn't be a realistic number like ten thousand, no it had to be SIX MILLION. Before that, it was NINE MILLION. Oh, and it couldn't be something realistic like shooting with mass graves; no, it had to be people killed in mass with ineffective explosive insecticide right next to a raging fire. They had to defy the laws of physics. No, it wasn't good enough having a little mistreatment at the hands of the Germans. No, they had to be made into of soap and lampshades (items which has been tested and proven to NOT have any human products in them)! Before gas chambers, it was the electro chambers. They kept on using more and more chutzpah and making the lies more and more ridiculous, until they get disproven later. Eventually, it comes back and bites them in the ass. Not suprising, lies tend to do that, at least in my experience. 

Look, the copernican revolution about this holohoax thing is coming. It's writing on the wall. You never hear about these guys in the news, but the knowledge is spreading over the internet like wildfire. Some people are working up the guts to SAY something.

I actually read through those sites; I'm glad I did, and I've changed my whole freaking opinion. It's like I just looked up and saw the sun for the first time.

>>27
This is the primary reason eugenics doesn't work, it's interbreeding that leads inferior cultures to gain otherwise unattainable knowledge. Pockets of intellectually elite western, arab, and asian men could exist, but at the expense of everyone below them. We do not need them, but they desperately need us, and man is not selfish by nature, being formerly roving nomads, changing to community-driven lifestyles after discovering agriculture. (not to mention if you leave too many stupid people sitting around surrounding you, eventually one is going to make up a reason, usually religious, for them to hate you and bust open those walls.)
Essentially, our unselfish nature is what keeps us from killing off totally inferior ethnicities, no matter how many opportunities we had, and still have. If this is not true, how would you explain England never completely erradicating Africa? They had the means and manpower to take out every little tribe in the area below the northern 13% of the continent, and it wouldn't have taken long for reinforcements to arrive and start on the remainder. I believe greed is a subconcious moral balance that afflicts evil people, leading them to believe it would be beneficial to leave the indiginous people alive rather than executing the lot of them like the Vandals and the Mongols once did.

tl;dr: Man wtf is up with white people being hated on? They're the nicest conquerers ever, shit!
The only people we've truly screwed over were the various Injun tribes in the Americas.

>>30
If you visit Holocaust museums, the less knowledgeable ones (read: too small for the industry to bother correcting) have the true numbers posted, which of course don't add up to six million, or anywhere close, at all. I visited one such museum in high school, and after adding the numbers in my head, asked why. The answer was simply "Those numbers represent the ones we could find." As if we totally disappear after only a few decades? Hogwash! Even after being cremated there's still a few methods you can use to verify, at least, that the ashes were once human remains. Probably the only surefire way to dispose of evidence is a volcanic sacrifice, which just leaves a little carbon rock after awhile.

>>31
I'm no expert, but I'm guessing it's pretty tough to count the number of dead people in ash form, especially after it's all been shovelled out, blown away by the wind, or otherwise strewn about the countryside.

I still say there could have been 6 million detainees, not all of them Jewish, and not all of them killed from the experience.  So saying there were 6 million "victims" would be accurate if you included everyone who was ever in a concentration camp, killed or not. 

>>31

The American Indians are like that one relative nobody wants around and they just stuff him/her in the closet for five hours while the family eats dinner and goes home.  Apathy is where it's at.  Of course, apathy can also lead to uprisings when you leave pissed off groups unchecked.

Why are 6000000 jews (Auschwitz) worth more than 20000000 christians (Gulags)?

Apathy.  No one cares how many die from starvation or neglect or imprisonment.  No one cares how many have died in China from civil War and starvation, or in Africa from Civil War and starvation.  No one cares about Eastern Europe or Russia.  No one cares.

>>33

You still say that there were 6 million detainees. That's all hearsay. That's the whole problem with this thing. It's about belief. People want to believe in the holocaust for some odd reason. I mean, oh my god, without the holocaust hitler was an uptight bigot that also did some good things. Suddenly, the nazis aren't satan and they become people. Instead of looking at the nazis like some cheap paper cutout from a comic book, they become real people with needs and desires of their own. They have reasons.

Even if the whole holohoax thing is contradictory and it was obviously a good thing politically and financially for the Zionists, world Jewry, and the allies to slander and demonize the nazis, people still want to believe in their childhood myths. It's like learning that the easter bunny doesn't exist.

The holocaust is REAL religion.

This isn't about sticking with what is comfortable. This is about growing up. This is about intellectual maturity.

It sucks because you'll be the underdog and a REAL rebel if you accept the truth about the holohoax. We've got plenty of socially acceptable ways to rebel (which aren't really a form of rebellion, more like a pigeonholing) and being open to criticism of Jews or jewish interests is not it. Just like people that denied the earth was flat, you'll be hounded and spit upon. If you are in Europe, you might get roughed up by the holocaust inquisition. You can go to jail for this stuff in Europe. Free speech my ass.

But, this stuff is going to win out in the end. It's happening right now. When the berlin wall fell, everybody KNEW that they were living in a sham. One day, a couple of people on the street starting chanting something along the lines of 'one germany' or something like that, and boom, the wall fell. But, everybody KNEW first.

Then, it just reached critical pressure and the top flew off the whole blasted thing.

That's the same thing that's happening with the six million myth and this blasted DRAMATIZATION of jewish suffering. Other people are being left out in the cold because nobody is as important as the jews. Everybody else is to blame. Jews can mistreat people because they were mistreated. Boo hoo. The jews have done their own share of mistreating. They gave better than they got. There were far larger massacres in history, like in the Soviet Union, where millions of people really did die, and they were counted. Not phantom corpses and rumors and hearsay and confession by purse or torture (with crushed balls) like the holocaust. Those mass starvations were done at the hand of a rabbi, a JEWISH rabbi, and that's probably why Ukraine's top university (MAUP I believe) was willing to test David Duke http://www.davidduke.com t o see if he qualified for a doctorate.

How many people research the internment of the Germans after the end of WW2? Nobody seems to care about the mistreatment of them. After all, every German that lived in Germany was a nazithatwantstokillsixmillionjews.

I guess that after all the overdramatization and milking and whining by the jews, you sort of get to the point where you just can't feel sorry for them anymore. In white society, people that complain too much or make up tall tales or call everybody else evil as a form of extortion and cover up their greed with cries of 'entitlement' are frowned upon. Heck, they're frowned upon by any sort of decent people.

What pisses me off the most though is the billions sent to Israel and 'holocaust survivors.' There are about 3.1 million jews out there that applied as 'holocaust survivors' and some of them have gotten more than a million in 'reparations.' Bullshit. You get to be a millionaire because you survived living in a concentration camp, or you can lie through your teeth without flinching? That's highway robbery. The holohoax is the scam of the century.

The aid to Israel from the US by 1997 was something in the range of 85 billion. Israel has taken out even more loans since all this middle east crap went full swing, and I heard someone say something about a figure of 100 billion. So, if I count that in, the cost to US is around 185 billion dollars. The actual cost to the average taxpayer is actually around that +50%, I'd say roughly around 260 billion (with population considered stable from 1997.) That's about 40,000 dollars per US citizen, and that's not even considering that we sold them US military at rock bottom prices, basically giving them money to buy stuff from us wholesale. I dread adding up ALL the foreign aid and reparations paid to Israel from Europe, especially Germany.

>>32
it is physically impossible to burn a human body into ash with the materials the nazi's had at their camps.
The major bones always remain and have to be crushed unless you are either chucking the bodies into the sun/volcano/ground zero of a nuclear explosion.

Human bodies are 70% water, they do not burn easily.

>>37
moar of you please

>>38
Actually, fat old women burn much more easily than others.  They actually had it down to a science, how to stack the bodies so that they'd burn easily.

>>40
BTW, it's been proven how once you get a body started burning, it'll continue like a candle wick until it's completely consumed.  Look into reasearch surrounding spontaneoous human combustion. 

It does take some work to get a human body started, but once you do it burns up nicely.  BTW, most of those bodies weren't freshly dead, they'd been dessicating in graves for months before they were stacked up and burned.  In fact, the only reason they were being stacked up is because the allies were coming and they realized their asses were going to be stabbed all to hell in court for that...

Which brings me to another point, about the germans keeping records.  Even being such meticulous record keepers, does it not stand to reason that they'd destroy such incriminating records from their files?  They knew the allies were coming, and they knew what would happen to them.

About the ashes not being found anywhere, ash dissipates fairly easily into the environment once it's completely burned up.  Winds spread it around, ETC.   this is another hole in your argument.  Maybe the ashes and the fire would be visible from space IF THEY'D BURNED THEM ALL AT ONCE.  But they didn't; it happened over years, and they had time to process the ash before moving on. 

"hen that guy talks about the six million myth and that ashes from space thing, he's talking about the fact you can't hide six million corpses. The numbers were set using rumor-mongering, tortured confessions, and pay-offs. The actual records were too small to satisfy the jews. It couldn't be a realistic number like ten thousand, no it had to be SIX MILLION. Before that, it was NINE MILLION. Oh, and it couldn't be something realistic like shooting with mass graves; no, it had to be people killed in mass with ineffective explosive insecticide right next to a raging fire. They had to defy the laws of physics. No, it wasn't good enough having a little mistreatment at the hands of the Germans. No, they had to be made into of soap and lampshades (items which has been tested and proven to NOT have any human products in them)! Before gas chambers, it was the electro chambers. They kept on using more and more chutzpah and making the lies more and more ridiculous, until they get disproven later. Eventually, it comes back and bites them in the ass. Not suprising, lies tend to do that, at least in my experience.  "

this one paragraph does more to destroy your credibility than anything else I've read.  It's nothing more than illogical and insane hatred.  It's not that hatred itself is illogical, not saying that, it's that you're resorting to trying to VILLIFY your enemy, to try to turn them into the greatest evil mankind has ever known while SIMULTANEOUSLY talking about how the nazis were just people.  You aren't some guy who wants to tell the unbalanced truth.  I see where your bias lies.

>>40
LOL

>>41

No. You forgot about bones dumbass. The more primitive cremation equipment can't get rid of bones very well.

But, for argument's sake, let's assume that the nazis could perfectly cremate four million people into 1 foot cubes. No bones, just ash.

The tallest mountain in the world is Mount Everest at 29035. 4,000,000 divided by 29035 is around 137. The square root of 137 is around 11. So, you could basically have a cylinder of ash with a diameter of 11 feet, as tall as the tallest mountain on earth with the ash of 4,000,000 people, under IDEAL circumstances, without things that take up extra area like bones. An actual pile, larger at the base, would be FAR wider than that. The ash of six million people is a 50%!!! increase from that.

YOU CAN'T HIDE THAT.  The nazis didn't even have the time or resources to BEGIN cremating that many people, not to mention not having that much of an ineffective INSECTICIDE to kill six million people without proper ventiliation or construction or procedure. There wasn't even enough time. They didn't have the couple of decades necessary. They didn't have the facilities. They didn't have the frickin' manpower to waste on some evil genius scheme out of a comic book and an immature imagination. They didn't have any reason to waste the manpower and labor that the Jews were providing them with; labor they desperately needed.

The 'holocaust' is a fucking fantasy.

Next of all, shoveling the ashes of six million people into an irregular pile is not something you can hide in couple of days or a couple of months or even a couple of years. Try making alot of ash. Sure, it gets washed away but the ashes of six million people is enough to drastically affect the soil, its ph and composition. Also, human ash leaves elements that you can trace to know that it is HUMAN ash. You could easily FIND out that there were six million people's worth of ash in a place. These were CONCENTRATION camps. Lots of people concentrated in one place. The ash would be concentrated too. You know, the original plaque at Auschwitz before it was changed read four million. Four million people's worth of ash in a year, and their bones would be visible from space. The hole would be visible from space. You could frickin' WALK on the ash and make it into huge compacted down football stadium. A thousand people make enough remains to build a house out of. Four million people would have more mass than the whole freaking concentration camp, and that's if they had perfect cremation, which they didn't.

There was no holocaust, only a holohoax.

gb2 oven

Ok, I'm convinced six million Jews weren't killed. I'm convinced that it wasn't even physically possible for six million Jews to have been killed.

Isn't this a cause for celebration? Isn't this great? I think it is pretty cool.

http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/stealthjew.swf

>>46

Ok, that's hiliarious. But as for the parts that pertained to the holocaust, it showed a mass grave. It didn't show ash or gassings. That sort of looked like most mass graves do, and it could have been a picture of the one at that was found at Belsen. Nobody even makes up a story about there being a gassing at belsen. Ironically, the reason why so many died at belsen was because they didn't HAVE any Zyklon B to fumigate clothes and things like that, those people died of starvation and disease. The starvation you can blame on the food and supply shortages that Germany was suffering and the overcrowding after the evacuation of detainees to Bergen-Belsen.

Sensationalism != reason. You could do the exact same thing making fun of people that BELIEVE in the holohoax.

Still, you're guilty of what you accuse your enemy of... Sensationalism and irrationality in arguments...

>>48

It's easy to make claims. At least go the length and try to back them up. Oh, and I'd also like to say that I have an enemy here. I know that six million Jews weren't systematically exterminated in a rather ridiculous manner. As one guy pointed out, this is a GOOD thing. I'm glad that six million jews weren't killed.

>>49

What I meant to say was that I DON'T have an enemy here, unless you wanted six million jews to die.

So with all the crappy data on exact figures, how can one ever come close to a realistic estimate?

>>51

Because realistic estimates are considered too small. After all, Hitler can't JUST be selfishly pro-German and pro-Eugenics; he also has to be satan that walked upon the earth, a nazithatwantstokillsixmillionjews. He can't be imperfect, human, and stubborn; he has to be pure unadulterated evil that nobody is even willing to examine with an unbiased attitude.

That's why. Political hangover from the 40's. Got a bit drunk on power, and took the game too far.

>>50
LOLZ WAY TO MAKE YOUR ENEMY LOOK LIKE A NAZI LOLZ

You are killing more Jews by believing.

This thread is made of holocaustdenial and win.

I’m glad some people realize the truth about all this. I just wish more people realized the truth about WWII as a whole, but people would rather keep up this myth that it occurred. I mean lets look at the facts.

50-60 million dead? Plus more in the aftermath from starvation and dislocation? What a farce. That many bodied would form a stack so high it would be like a Mt Everest that reaches low earth obit.

Further we are supposed to believe the productions numbers? If you look at munitions the brass castings from all though bullets alone would be able to fill the great lakes. And all of this metal would corrupt the soil beyond repair.

Not to mention bullets are very ineffective for killing people. Most people who are shot survive! Why choose this insane and inefficient way of killing people? It’s like something from a bad comic book.

So what is the myth of WWII (Which if you talk to those so called “veterans” it’s more like a religion) really all about? Clearly it was all an attempt by the ghost of George Washington Carver to control the world peanut butter trade.

>>56
Nonono, Jews did WWII.

>>57

STFU! You are just another Carverist looking to dip your fangs into the lucrative peanut butter trade!

>>56

WW2 and WW1 were both physically possible, and evidence backs them up. WW1 and WW2 are not fantastic and ridiculous claims made more for comic books and cartoon series like the holocaust is. Satire is not the same thing as reason.

According to your satire, we don't need any proof to substantiate claims and contradictory evidence is to be ignored, if somebody says something happened it happened. Everybody here thought that the holocaust was true at some point, the burden of proof was therefore on disproving it as a reasonable claim. The burden of proof for disproving the systematic extermination of Jews in the number of six million by National Socialist Germany has been met; in addition to the realization that there was unsatisfactory proof to make that claim in the first place.

>>59

And as for this specific claim, two things have been sufficiently proven.

1. No civilian Jews were gassed by National Socialist Germany, at least in large numbers in a systematic attempt at killing large numbers of Jews.
2. Six million civilian Jews did not die by exposure to toxic gas, especially not the insecticide Zyklon B, during the period of WW2.


These negative facts stand however:
1. Criminals, enemies of the state, and non-citizens (including Jews) were rounded up into concentration labor camps by National Socialist Germany.
2. Many of the residents of these concentration camps died of disease and malnutrition; in some cases, so many died from disease and starvation that mass graves were necessary such as in Bergen-Belsen. However, the death by disease and starvation was not due to the action of the National Socialist Germans, but rather by their inaction and lack of fumigants like Zyklon B or basic resources such as food and fuel.
3. Many concentration camp residents lived a life that was far below the poverty line except in the nicer concentration camps that had plentiful access to resources and educated or influential people within those camps.
4. The concentration camp residents were forced at the end of a gun to work. They were not given freedom of choice, and were only one step above prisoners of war.

Enough of this shit. You fucking nerds and you're need to argue about stupid shit

The IHR says (original, Samisdat, and revised versions combined):

None. The only evidence is the postwar testimony of individual "survivors." This testimony is contradictory, and no "survivor" claims to have actually witnessed any gassing. There are no contemporaneous documents and no hard evidence whatsoever: no mounds of ashes, no crematoria capable of disposing of millions of corpses, no piles of clothes, no human soap, no lamp shades made of human skin, no records, no credible demographic statistics.

Nizkor replies:

Lie piled upon lie, with not a shred of proof.

This is as good a place as any to present some detailed evidence which is consistently ignored, as a sort of primer on Holocaust denial. It will make this reply much longer than the other sixty-five, but perhaps the reader will understand the necessity for this.

Let's look at their claims one at a time:

# Supposedly the only evidence, "the postwar testimony of individual survivors."

First of all, consider the implicit conspiracy theory. Notice how the testimony of every single inmate of every Nazi camp is automatically dismissed as unconvincing. This total dismissal of inmates' testimony, along with the equally-total dismissal of the Nazis' own testimony (!), is the largest unspoken assumption of Holocaust-denial.

This assumption, which is not often spelled out, is that the attempted Jewish genocide never took place, but rather that a secret conspiracy of Jews, starting around 1941, planted and forged myriad documents to prove that it did; then, after the war, they rounded up all the camp survivors and told them what to say.

The conspirators also supposedly managed to torture hundreds of key Nazis into confessing to crimes which they never committed, or into framing their fellow Nazis for those crimes, and to plant hundreds of documents in Nazi files which were never discovered until after the war, and only then, in many cases, by sheer luck. Goebbels' diary, for example, was barely rescued from being sold as 7,000 pages of scrap paper, but buried in the scattered manuscript were several telling entries (as translated in Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, pp. 86, 147-148):

February 14, 1942: The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness.

March 27, 1942: The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.

Michael Shermer has pointed out that the Nazis' own estimate of the number of European Jews was eleven million, and sixty percent of eleven million is 6.6 million. This is fairly close to the actual figure. (Actually, forty percent was a serious overestimate of the survival rate of Jews who were captured, but there were many Jews who escaped.)

In any case, most of the diary is quite mundane, and interesting only to historians. Did the supposed Jewish conspiracy forge seven thousand pages to insert just a few lines? How did they manage to know Goebbels' affairs intimately enough to avoid contradictions, e.g. putting him or his associates in the wrong city at the wrong date?

As even the revisionist David Cole has admitted, revisionists have yet to provide a satisfactory explanation of this document.

Regarding postwar testimony from Nazis, were they all tortured into confessing to heinous crimes which they supposedly did not commit? This might be believable if only a few Nazis were captured after the war, or maybe if some had courageously stood up in court and shouted to the world about the supposed attempt to silence them. But hundreds testified regarding the Holocaust, in trials dating from late 1945 until the 1960s. (For example, see Böck, Hofmann, Hössler, Klein, Münch, and Stark.)

Many of these Nazis testified as witnesses and were not accused of crimes. What was the basis for their supposed coercion?

Many of these trials were in German courts. Did the Germans torture their own countrymen? Well, Holocaust-deniers sometimes claim that the Jews have secretly infiltrated the German government and control everything about it. They prefer not to talk too much about this theory, however, because it is clearly on the lunatic fringe.

The main point is that not one of these supposed torture victims -- in fifty years, not one -- has come forth to support the claim that testimony was coerced.

On the contrary, confirmation and reconfirmation of their testimony has continued across the years. What coercion could have convinced Judge Konrad Morgen to testify to the crimes he witnessed at the International Nuremberg Trial in 1946, where he was not accused of any crime? And to later testify at the Auschwitz trial at Frankfurt, Germany, in 1963-65? What coercion was applied to SS Doctor Johann Kremer to make him testify in his own defense in 1947, and then, after having been convicted in both Poland and Germany, emerge after his release to testify again as a witness at the Frankfurt trial? What coercion was applied to Böck, Gerhard Hess, Hölblinger, Storch, and Wiebeck, all former SS men, all witnesses at Frankfurt, none accused of any crime there?

Holocaust-deniers point to small discrepancies in testimonies to try to discredit them. The assumption, unstated, is that the reader will accept minor discrepancies as evidence of a vast, over-reaching Jewish conspiracy. This is clearly ludicrous.

In fact, the discrepancies and minor errors in detail argue against, not for, the conspiracy theory. Why would the conspirators have given different information to different Nazis? In fact, if all the testimonies, from the Nazis' to the inmates', sounded too similar, it is certain that the Holocaust-deniers would cite that as evidence of a conspiracy.

What supposed coercion could reach across four decades, to force former SS-Untersturmführer Dr. Hans Münch to give an interview, against the will of his family, on Swedish television? In the 1981 interview, he talked about Auschwitz:

Interviewer: Isn't the ideology of extermination contrary to a doctor's ethical values?

Münch: Yes, absolutely. There is no discussion. But I lived in that environment, and I tried in every possible way to avoid accepting it, but I had to live with it. What else could I have done? And I wasn't confronted with it directly until the order came that I and my superior and another one had to take part in the exterminations since the camp's doctors were overloaded and couldn't cope with it.

Interviewer: I must ask something. Doubters claim that "special treatment" could mean anything. It didn't have to be extermination.

Münch: "Special treatment" in the terminology of the concentration camp means physical extermination. If it was a question of more than a few people, where nothing else than gassing them was worthwhile, they were gassed.

Interviewer: "Special treatment" was gassing?

Münch: Yes, absolutely.

And what supposed coercion could reach across four decades, to force former SS-Unterscharführer Franz Suchomel into giving an interview for the film Shoah? Speaking under (false) promises of anonymity, he told of the crimes committed at the Treblinka death camp (from the book Shoah, Claude Lanzmann, 1985, p. 54):

Interviewer: You are a very important eyewitness, and you can explain what Treblinka was.

Suchomel: But don't use my name.

Interviewer: No, I promised. All right, you've arrived at Treblinka.

Suchomel: So Stadie, the sarge, showed us the camps from end to end. Just as we went by, they were opening the gas-chamber doors, and people fell out like potatoes. Naturally, that horrified and appalled us. We went back and sat down on our suitcases and cried like old women.

Each day one hundred Jews were chosen to drag the corpses to the mass graves. In the evening the Ukrainians drove those Jews into the gas chambers or shot them. Every day!

Ask the deniers why they shrug off the testimony of Franz Suchomel. Greg Raven will tell you that "it is not evidence...bring me some evidence, please." Others will tell you that Suchomel and Münch were crazy, or hallucinating, or fantasizing.

But the fantasy is obviously in the minds of those who choose to ignore the mass of evidence and believe instead in a hypothetical conspiracy, supported by nothing but their imaginations.

That total lack of evidence is why the "conspiracy assumption" almost always remains an unspoken assumption. To our knowledge, there has not been one single solitary "revisionist" paper, article, speech, pamphlet, book, audiotape, videotape, or newsletter which provides any details about this supposed Jewish/Zionist conspiracy which did all the dirty work. Not one.

At best, the denial literature makes veiled references to the World Jewish Congress perpetuating a "hoax" (in Butz, 1976) -- no details are provided. Yet the entire case of Holocaust-denial rests on this supposed conspiracy.

As for the testimony of the survivors, which the "revisionists" claim is the only evidence, there are indeed numerous testimonies to gassings and other forms of atrocities, from Jewish inmates who survived the camps, and also from other inmates like POWs. Many of the prisoners that testified about the gassing are not Jewish, of course. Look for instance at the testimony of Polish officer Zenon Rozansky about the first homicidal gassing in Auschwitz, in which 850 Russian POWs were gassed to death, in Reitlinger, The Final Solution, p. 154:

Those who were propped against the door leant with a curious stiffness and then fell right at our feet, striking their faces hard against the concrete floor. Corpses! Corpses standing bolt upright and filling the entire corridor of the bunker, till they were packed so tight that it was impossible for more to fall.

Which of the "revisionists" will deny this? Which of them was there? Which of them has the authority to tell Rozansky what he did or did not see?

The statement that "no 'survivor' claims to have actually witnessed any gassing" is clearly false; this was changed to "few survivors" in later versions, which is close to the truth.

But we do not need to rely solely on testimony, from the survivors, Nazis, or otherwise. Many wartime documents, not postwar descriptions, specifically regarding gassings and other atrocities, were seized by the U.S. armed forces. Most are in the National Archives in Washington, D.C.; some are in Germany.

Regarding the gassing vans, precursors to the gas chambers, we find, for example, a top secret document from SS Untersturmführer Becker to SS Obersturmbannführer Rauff (from Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, 1946, Vol. I, pp. 999-1001):

If it has rained for instance for only one half hour, the van cannot be used because it simply skids away. It can only be used in absolutely dry weather. It is only a question now whether the van can only be used standing at the place of execution. First the van has to be brought to that place, which is possible only in good weather. ...

The application of gas usually is not undertaken correctly. In order to come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My directions now have proved that by correct adjustment of the levers death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully.

And Just wrote of the gas vans to Rauff, on June 5, 1942, in a letter marked both "top secret" and "only copy". This is a horrific masterpiece of Nazi double-talk, referring to killing as "processing" and the victims as "subjects" and "the load." (See Kogon, Nazi Mass Murder, 1993, pp. 228-235.)

Since December 1941, for example, 97,000 were processed using three vans, without any faults occurring in the vehicles. ...

The normal capacity of the vans is nine to ten per square meter. The capacity of the larger special Saurer vans is not so great. The problem is not one of overloading but of off-road maneuverability on all terrains, which is severely diminished in this van. It would appear that a reduction in the cargo area is necessary. This can be achieved by shortening the compartment by about one meter. The problem cannot be solved by merely reducing the number of subject treated, as has been done so far. For in this case a longer running time is required, as the empty space also needs to be filled with CO [the poison exhaust gas]. ...

Greater protection is needed for the lighting system. The grille should cover the lamps high enough up to make it impossible to break the bulbs. It seems that these lamps are hardly ever turned on, so the users have suggested that they could be done away with. Experience shows, however, that when the back door is closed and it gets dark inside, the load pushes hard against the door. The reason for this is that when it becomes dark inside, the load rushes toward what little light remains. This hampers the locking of the door. It has also been noticed that the noise provoked by the locking of the door is linked to the fear aroused by the darkness.

Slip-ups occurred in written correspondence regarding the gas chambers themselves, some of which, fortunately, escaped destruction and were found after the war. A memo written to SS man Karl Bischoff on November 27, 1942 describes the gas chamber in Krema II not with the usual mundane name of "Leichenkeller," but rather as the "Sonderkeller" "special cellar."

And two months later, on January 29, 1943, Bischoff wrote a memo to Kammler, referring to that same chamber as the "Vergasungskeller." (See Gutman, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, 1994, pp. 223, 227.) "Vergasungskeller" means exactly what it sounds like: "gassing cellar," an underground gas chamber.

Holocaust-deniers turn to Arthur Butz, who provides a specious explanation for the Vergasungskeller: "Vergasung," he says, cannot refer to killing people with gas, but only to the process of converting a solid or liquid into gas. Therefore, he says the "Vergasungskeller," must have been a special room where the fuel for the Auschwitz ovens was converted into gas -- a "gasification cellar."

There are three problems with this explanation. First, "Vergasung" certainly can refer to killing people with gas; Butz does not speak German and he should not try to lecture about the language. Second, there is no room that could possibly serve this function which Butz describes -- years after writing his book, he admitted this, and helplessly suggested that there might be another building somewhere in the camp that might house a gasification cellar. Third, the type of oven used at Auschwitz did not require any gasification process! The ovens burned solid fuel. (See Gutman, op. cit., pp. 184-193.)

So what does the term "gassing cellar" refer to? Holocaust-deniers have yet to offer any believable explanation.

An inventory, again captured after the war, revealed fourteen showerheads and one gas-tight door listed for the gas chamber in Krema III. Holocaust-deniers claim that room was a morgue; they do not offer to explain what use a morgue has for showerheads and a gas-tight door. (See a photograph of the document, or Pressac, Auschwitz: Technique and Operation, 1989, pp. 231, 438.)

A memo from the Auschwitz construction office, dated March 31, 1943, says (Hilberg, Documents of Destruction, 1971, pp. 207-208):

We take this occasion to refer to another order of March 6, 1943, for the delivery of a gas door 100/192 for Leichenkeller 1 of Krema III, Bw 30a, which is to be built in the manner and according to the same measure as the cellar door of the opposite Krema II, with peep hole of double 8 millimeter glass encased in rubber. This order is to be viewed as especially urgent....

Why would morgues have urgently needed peepholes made out of a double layer of third-of-an-inch-thick glass?

The question of whether it can be proved that the cyanide gas was used in the Auschwitz gas chambers has intruiged the deniers. Their much-heralded Leuchter Report, for example, expends a great deal of effort on the question of whether traces of cyanide residue remain there today. But we do not need to look for chemical traces to confirm cyanide use (Gutman, op. cit., p. 229):

Letters and telegrams exchanged on February 11 and 12 [1943] between the Zentralbauleitung and Topf mention a wooden blower for Leichenkeller 1. This reference confirms the use of the morgue as a gas chamber: Bischoff and Prüfer thought that the extraction of air mixed with concentrated prussic acid [cyanide] (20 g per cu m) required a noncorroding ventilator.

Bischoff and Prüfer turned out to be wrong, and a metal fan ended up working acceptably well. But the fact that they thought it necessary demonstrates that cyanide was to be routinely used in the rooms which deniers call morgues. (Cyanide is useless for disinfecting morgues, as it does not kill bacteria.)

Other captured documents, even if they don't refer directly to some part of the extermination process, refer to it by implication. A captured memo to SS-Brigadeführer Kammler reveals that the expected incineration capacity of the Auschwitz ovens was a combined total of 4,756 corpses per day (see a photograph of the document or Kogon, op. cit., p. 157).

Deniers often claim that this total could not be achieved in practice (see question 45). That's not the point. These crematoria were carefully designed, in 1942, to have sufficient capacity to dispose of 140,000 corpses per month -- in a camp that housed only 125,000. We can conclude that massive deaths were predicted, indeed planned-for, as early as mid-1942. A camp designed to incinerate its full capacity of inmates every four weeks is not merely a detention center.

Finally, apart from the abundant testimonies, confessions, and physical evidence of the extermination process, there is certainly no want of evidence of the Nazis' intentions and plans.

Here are just a few examples. Hans Frank's diary (from Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, 1946, Vol. I, pp. 992, 994):

But what should be done with the Jews? Do you think they will be settled down in the 'Ostland' [eastern territories], in [resettlement] villages? This is what we were told in Berlin: Why all this bother? We can do nothing with them either in the 'Ostland' nor in the 'Reichkommissariat.' So liquidate them yourself.

Gentlemen, I must ask you to rid yourself of all feeling of pity. We must annihilate the Jews, wherever we find them and wherever it is possible, in order to maintain the structure of the Reich as a whole. ...

We cannot shoot or poison these 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take measures, which will lead, somehow, to their annihilation....

That we sentence 1,200,000 Jews to die of hunger should be noted only marginally.

Himmler's speech at Posen on October 4, 1943 was captured on audiotape (Trial of the Major War Criminals, 1948, Vol. XXIX, p. 145, trans. by current author):

I refer now to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. This is one of those things that is easily said: "the Jewish people are being exterminated," says every Party member, "quite true, it's part of our plans, the elimination of the Jews, extermination, we're doing it."

The extermination effort was even mentioned in at least one official Nazi court verdict. In May 1943, a Munich court wrote in its decision against SS-Untersturmführer Max Taubner that:

The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry himself.

And Hitler spoke quite clearly in public on no fewer than three occasions. On January 30, 1939, seven months before Germany invaded Poland, he spoke publicly to the Reichstag (transcribed from Skeptic magazine, Vol. 2, No. 4, p. 50):

Today I want to be a prophet once more: if international finance Jewry inside and outside of Europe should succeed once more in plunging nations into another world war, the consequence will not be the Bolshevation of the earth and thereby the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe.

By the way, this last phrase is, in German, "die Vernichtung der jüdischen Rasse in Europa," which German-speakers will realize is quite unambiguous.

In September, 1942:

...if Jewry should plot another world war in order to exterminate the Aryan peoples in Europe, it would not be the Aryan people which would be exterminated but Jewry...

On November 8, 1942:

You will recall the session of the Reichstag during which I declared: if Jewry should imagine that it could bring about an international world war to exterminate the European races, the result will not be the extermination of the European races, but the extermination of Jewry in Europe. People always laughed about me as a prophet. Of those who laughed then, countless numbers no longer laugh today, and those who still laugh now will perhaps no longer laugh a short time from now.

There are many other examples of documents and testimonies that could be presented.

Keep in mind that the IHR's answer to "what proof exists?" is "none." It has certainly been demonstrated already that this pat answer is totally dishonest. And this is the main point we wish to communicate: that Holocaust-denial is dishonest.

We continue by analyzing the remaining, more-specific, claims about what evidence supposedly does not exist.

# "No mounds of ashes" is an internal contradiction. In an article in the journal published by the same IHR that publishes these Q&A, the Journal's editor reported that a Polish commission in 1946 found human ash at the Treblinka death camp to a depth of over twenty feet. This article is available on The IHR's web site.

(Apparently some survivors claimed that the corpses were always thoroughly cremated. Because uncremated human remains were mixed with the ash, the editor suggested that the testimonies were false. Amazingly, he had no comment on how a twenty-foot layer of human ashes came to be there in the first place. Perhaps he felt that to be unworthy of mention.)

There are also piles of ashes at Maidanek. At Auschwitz-Birkenau, ashes from cremated corpses were dumped into the rivers and swamps surrounding the camp, and used as fertilizer for nearby farmers' fields.

# "No crematoria" capable of disposing of millions of corpses? Absolutely false, the crematoria were more than capable of the job, according to both the Nazis' own internal memos and the testimony of survivors. Holocaust-deniers deliberately confuse civilian, funeral-home crematoria with the huge industrial ovens of the death camps. This is discussed in much detail in the replies to questions 42 and 45.

# "No piles of clothes"? Apparently, the IHR considers piles of clothes to be "hard evidence"! This is strange, because they do not deny the other sorts of piles found at Nazi camps: piles of eyeglasses, piles of shoes (at Auschwitz, Belzec, and Maidanek), piles of gold teeth, piles of burned corpses, piles of unburned corpses, piles of artificial limbs (see Swiebocka, Auschwitz: A History in Photographs, 1993, p. 210), piles of human hair (ibid, p. 211), piles of ransacked luggage (ibid, p. 213), piles of shaving-brushes (ibid, p. 215), piles of combs (ibid), piles of pots and pans (ibid), and yes, even the piles of clothes (ibid, p. 214) that the IHR claims do not exist.

Perhaps the authors of the 66 Q&A realized that it was dangerous for them to admit that these piles were hard evidence, because then they would also be forced to admit a number of other things as "hard evidence." Perhaps this is why they removed this phrase from the revised 66 Q&A.

If items were not generally found in mass quantities, it is only because the Nazis distributed them to the German population. A memo on this was captured, revealing that they even redistributed women's underwear.

# "No human soap"? This is true, but misleading. Though there is some evidence that soap was made from corpses on a very limited experimental scale, the rumored "mass production" was never done, and no soap made from human corpses is known to exist. However, there is sworn testimony, never refuted, from British POWs and a German army official, stating that soap experiments were performed, and the recipe for the soap was captured by the Allies. To state flatly that the Nazis did not make soap from human beings is incorrect.

# "No lamp shades made of human skin?" False -- lampshades and other human-skin "ornaments" were introduced as evidence in both trials of Ilse Koch, and were shown to a U.S. Senate investigation committee in the late 40s. We know they were made of human skin because they bore tattoos, and because a microscopic forensic analysis of the items was performed. (A detailed page on this is being prepared.)

# "No records"? This is nonsense (which may explain why this claim was removed from the "revised" versions of the 66 Q&A). True, extermination by gassing was always referred to with code-words, and those victims who arrived at death camps only to be immediately gassed were not recorded in any books. But there are slip-ups in the code-word usage that reveal the true meanings, as already described. There are inventories and requisitions for the Krema which reveal items anomalous with ordinary use but perfect for mass homicidal gassing. There are deportation train records which, pieced together, speak clearly. And so on. Several examples have been given above.

# "No credible demographic statistics"? This is the second internal contradiction -- see question 2 and question 15. The Anglo-American committee who studied the issue estimated the number of Jewish victims at 5.7 million. This was based on population statistics. Here is the exact breakdown, country by country:

Germany 195,000
Austria 53,000
Czechoslovakia 255,000
Denmark 1,500
France 140,000
Belgium 57,000
Luxemburg 3,000
Norway 1,000
Holland 120,000
Italy 20,000
Yugoslavia 64,000
Greece 64,000
Bulgaria 5,000
Rumania 530,000
Hungary 200,000
Poland 3,271,000
USSR 1,050,000
Less dispersed refugees (308,000)
Total number of Jews killed 5,721,500

(This estimate was arrived at using population statistics, and not by adding the number of casualties at each camp. These are also available -- for instance, a separate file with the ruling of a German court regarding the number of victims in Treblinka is available. The SS kept rather accurate records, and many of the documents survived, reinforced by eyewitness accounts).

Some estimates are lower, some are higher, but this is the magnitude in question. In an article in CMU's student newspaper, the head of CMU's History Department, Peter Stearns, is quoted as saying that newly discovered documents -- especially in the former USSR -- indicate that the number of victims is higher than six million. Other historians claim not much over five million. The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust uses 5,596,000 as a minimum and 5,860,000 as a maximum (Gutman, 1990, p. 1799).

# In summary:

"Revisionists" often claim, correctly, that the burden of proof is on historians. The proof, of course, has been a matter of public record since late 1945, and is available in libraries around the world. The burden has been met, many, many times over. You've just seen a brief presentation of some of the highlights of that immense body of proof; much more is readily available.

To even argue that the Holocaust never happened is ludicrous. To claim straight-faced that none of this proof even exists is beyond ludicrous, and it is a clear example of "revisionist" dishonesty.

http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi

Fucking geeks

No. Actually there was quite a bit of torture.

More disturbing, however, were the methods employed to extract statements and "confessions" at Nuremberg, particularly those from S.S. officers which were used to support the extermination charge. The American Senator, Joseph McCarthy, in a statement given to the American Press on May 20th, 1949, drew attention to the following cases of torture to secure such confessions. In the prison of the Swabisch Hall, he stated, officers of the S.S. Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler were flogged until they were soaked in blood, after which their sexual organs were trampled on as they lay prostrate on the ground. As in the notorious Malmedy Trials of private soldiers, the prisoners were hoisted in the air and beaten until they signed the confessions demanded of them. On the basis of such "confessions" extorted from S.S. Generals Sepp Dietrich and Joachim Paiper, the Leibstandarte was convicted as a "guilty organisation". S.S. General Oswald Pohl, the economic administrator of the concentration camp system, had his face smeared with faeces and was subsequently beaten until he supplied his confession. In dealing with these cases, Senator McCarthy told the Press: "I have heard evidence and read documentary proofs to the effect that the accused persons were beaten up, maltreated and physically tortured by methods which could only be conceived in sick brains. They were subjected to mock trials and pretended executions, they were told their families would be deprived of their ration cards. All these things were carried out with the approval of the Public Prosecutor in order to secure the psychological atmosphere necessary for the extortion of the required confessions. If the United States lets such acts committed by a few people go unpunished, then the whole world can rightly criticise us severely and forever doubt the correctness of our motives and our moral integrity." The methods of intimidation described were repeated during trials at Frankfurt-am-Mein and at Dachau, and large numbers of Germans were convicted for atrocities on the basis of their admissions. The American Judge Edward L. van Roden, one of the three members of the Simpson Army Commission which was subsequently appointed to investigate the methods of justice at the Dachau trials, revealed the methods by which these admissions were secured in the Washington Daily News, January 9th, 1949. His account also appeared in the British newspaper, the Sunday Pictorial, January 23rd, 1949. The methods he described were: "Posturing as priests to hear confessions and give absolution; torture with burning matches driven under the prisoners finger-nails; knocking out of teeth and breaking jaws; solitary confinement and near starvation rations." Van Roden explained: "The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months . . . The investigators would put a black hood over the accused's head and then punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses . . . All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators." The "American" investigators responsible (and who later functioned as the prosecution in the trials) were: Lt.-Col. Burton F. Ellis (chief of the War Crimes Committee) and his assistants, Capt. Raphael Shumacker, Lt. Robert E. Byrne, Lt. William R. Perl, Mr. Morris Ellowitz, Mr. Harry Thon, and Mr. Kirschbaum. The legal adviser of the court was Col. A. H. Rosenfeld. The reader will immediately appreciate from their names that the majority of these people were "biased on racial grounds" in the words of Justice Wenersturm - that is, were Jewish, and therefore should never have been involved in any such investigation. Despite the fact that "confessions" pertaining to the extemination of the Jews were extracted under these conditions, Nuremberg statements are still regarded as conclusive evidence for the Six Million by writers like Reitlinger and others, and the illusion is maintained that the Trials were both impartial and impeccably fair. When General Taylor, the Chief Public Prosecutor, was asked where he had obtained the figure of the Six Million, he replied that it was based on the confession of S.S. General Otto Ohlendorf. He, too, was tortured and his case is examined below. But as far as such "confessions" in general are concerned, we can do no better than quote the British Sunday Pictorial when reviewing the report of Judge van Roden: "Strong men were reduced to broken wrecks ready to mumble any admission demanded by their prosecutors."
 
 

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v01/v01p131_Harwood.html

No soap, and many people were caught embellishing lies like this, i.e. lying through their asses. Funny thing, is that holocaust mythologicians actually lie so much their credibility is as low as nil. Where is the nazi fertilizer and flying monkies with head beams? You still haven't proven that six million Jews were killed. All you've got are what Jews, who hated and hate the nazis, said, what people under torture said, and what people said AFTER the war when they knew their asses would be on the fire if they didn't agree with the holohoax.

Human Soap
RICHARD HARWOOD & DITLIEB FELDERER

(Skipped to make post shorter, can be found at site)
This allegation is somewhat ironic, for Dr. Butz indicates in his book (109: p. 247) that Weissmandel was the likely initial source of the entire Holocaust myth, and that his training in Talmudic lore enabled him to draw on a rich and bizarre well of imagery. Butz cites Talmudic passages which describe how 4 billion (or in other sources, 40 million) Jews were slain by the Romans; how the tidal wave of Jewish blood carried boulders into the sea and stained the water for four miles out; how Jewish bodies were used as fence posts; how Jewish blood was used as fertilizer on Roman vineyards; and how Jewish children were rolled up in their Torah scroll and burned alive. In his book The Six Million Reconsidered (Noontide, 1979), William Grimstad deals even more effectively with the uncanny resemblance of modern-day "Holocaust" allegations with ancient Talmudic and Biblical anecdotes. On page 42, he shows a Talmudic illustration of the Fiery Statue of Molech, which he points out, bears a curious similarity to Auschwitzian "gas-ovens."

But there is in the U.S. National Archives a document number 740.00116 EW/726, which appears to be "information" received in November 1942 from an anonymous Vatican source called "Mr. F." It consists of a three-page description in French of events which were allegedly transpiring in Poland. Inter alia, the document reports:

    Farms for the breeding of human beings are being organized to which women and girls are brought for the purpose of being made mothers of children who are then taken from them to be raised in Nazi establishments... Mass execution of Jews continues... They are killed by poison gas in chambers especially prepared for that purpose (often in railway cars) and by machine-gun fire, following which the dead and the dying are covered with earth ... Reports are being circulated to the effect that the Germans are making use of their corpses in plants manufacturing chemical products (soap making factories).

It would thus appear that the entire allegation is founded on anonymous reports and speculative hearsay. No one can come up with any locations, dates, or names. Of course, this has not prevented popular "historians" such as William L. Shirer from perpetuating the myth:

    There was testimony at the Nuremberg Trials that the ashes were sometimes sold as fertilizer. One Danzig firm, according to a document offered by the Russian prosecution, constructed an electrically-heated tank for making soap out of human fat. Its "recipe" called for "12 pounds of human fat, 10 quarts of water, and 8 ounces to a pound of caustic soda ... all boiled for two or three days and then cooled. (4: p. 1264)

As "authority" Shirer states in his footnote 59: Nuremberg document "ND USSR-8, p. 197. Transcript" (4: p. 1518). I suppose he must mean the same "electrically-heated tank" which appears in the Encyclopedia Judaica described above. Unfortunately, the encyclopedia does not give a source for this illustration.

Let us pause for a moment and examine this Soviet soap recipe. We must assume, first of all, that quite a few corpses will be needed to obtain 12 pounds of fat, since we are told the Jews were just skin and bone anyway. But the Soviet idea of boiling "all" the ingredients together just does not coincide with established soap formulas. Norman Stark's Forrnula Book calls for "a lot of rendered animal fat" and states that the water and caustic soda should be mixed with cold water (20: p. 63). Our Soviet "experts" must have missed some basics on soap-making, for Stark tells us that the caustic soda should not be boiled with the water as the mixture will heat up anyway by the chemical action of the lye. The tallow is then melted, and after proper adjustment of the temperature, the lye solution is poured into the tallow and then stirred. This process would seem to make redundant the "electrically heated tank" shown in the encyclopedia. One also wonders about capacity.

Eight ounces of caustic soda for each pound of human fat must mean 96 ounces for this recipe. Most of the water, 10 quarts of it, would mix with the lye. I simply cannot understand how the ultra-efficient Germans, working with the mass extermination of millions of people (as they were supposed to), would have bothered with such a small "factory," fussing around with eight ounces of this and ten quarts of that. Surely the "mills of death" could do better than this?

In the process of tracking down mentions of "human soap" I came across a modern Polish tract by Dr. Adolf Gawalewicz which stated that "soup was prepared from human flesh" (3: insert p. 7). Knowing how badly Polish translations are often made, I thought that the author perhaps meant "soap," but a cross-reference to the French and German translations again shows "soup." This would appear to be one of the even rarer allegations that the Germans encouraged cannibalism!

Many Exterminationist books make no mention at all of the "soap" story; even outlandish books such as We Have Not Forgotten (2 & 6) which covers every other conceivable German atrocity. The same is true of the numerous other "Holocaustiana" books which I have plowed through. Surely if there were such factories there would be ample evidence to write book after book, article after article, on this one subject.

Even the "authoritative" 7 volume report of the International Auschwitz Committee, written by the same Dr. Gawalewicz who wrote the Auschwitz guide-book (3) referred to above, makes only passing reference to "human soap." The English edition of the work states:

    Is that not some sort of exaggeration, some unintended injustice, in regard to those hundreds of thousands whose ashes were scattered by the wind-nobody knows where-whose bodies were dissolved to use the fat for soap; whose hair was used to make mattrasses?

    (Vol. 3, Part 1: p. 36)

(I suppose the translators have come adrift here again, for a "mattrass" is a slender glass tube used in a laboratory. They probably mean "mattress"). This is the only mention of "soap" throughout this massive work, in spite of all those "hundreds of thousands." Evidently something must be wrong.

Determined to get to the bottom of the "human soap" problem, I paid a visit to Danzig, and unsuccessfully tried to locate the site of the "human soap factory." At the nearby Stutthof "extermination camp" I again sought evidence, but not one of the officials or guides there could help. Nor was there any evidence on display in among the numerous other examples of German "atrocities."

I journeyed deeper into Poland to the museum of Auschwitz-Birkenau, and when I again found no evidence of "human soap" on display', I inquired of the officials if they might have a sample in their archives. I spoke with Mrs. Irena Stafanska, curator of the archives, and Mr. Franciszek Piper, one of the museum guides. Finally, Piper shook his shoulders, gave me a pleasant smile, and informed me embarrassingly that their own forensic examination of their "human soap" samples had proved it to be just ordinary soap. But what about the specimens of "human soap" which had been exhibited at Nuremberg? Where were they? Were they not at Auschwitz?

I was unable to penetrate the subject any further, as no one was enthusiastic about hearing any more about it. I continued my search through the exhibits, but still was unable to find any trace.

Undoubtedly the "human soap" World War Two version is just about as real as the World War One yarn about the wicked Huns turning the bodies of their dead soldiers into soap. At the end of WWI, a certain Virginia newspaper editorialized that in future wars "propaganda must be more subtle and clever." (Ponsonby, pp. 102-113). But obviously the paper did not have a high circulation in Russia, for the Soviets did not heed their advice in the later conflagration.

Quote:
--------------
# "No lamp shades made of human skin?" False -- lampshades and other human-skin "ornaments" were introduced as evidence in both trials of Ilse Koch, and were shown to a U.S. Senate investigation committee in the late 40s. We know they were made of human skin because they bore tattoos, and because a microscopic forensic analysis of the items was performed. (A detailed page on this is being prepared.)
---------

I'm laughing at you. I truly am. Here's why. The tatoo thing.

1. Goats and cows are given tattoos as an alternative to branding.
2. Human DNA and Goat DNA don't look the same sherlock.
3. Those couldn't have been Jews. Jews can't get tattoos.

-----
Why are tattoos forbidden?
There are those who say that this is a divine decree whose reason is unknown to us (Rashi on Tractate Makoth 21A). Maimonides writes that "...this was the custom of the gentiles that they inscribe themselves for idol worship that is to say that he is a slave sold and enlisted for its worship..."(Laws of Idol Worship 12:11).
Tattoos: An Abomination
Our sages looked upon tattoos as an abomination, as can be seen from the following Midrash (Tanchuma Lech Lecha 20): "...Yehoyakim stretched his foreskin as it is said (II Chronicles 36:8) And the rest of Yehoyakim's matters and his abominations that he did and that was found upon him.... What was found upon him? That he stretched his foreskin. And there are those that say that he tattooed himself."
------

http://www.geocities.com/mnlerner2000/

Source: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p405_Weber.html
The Commandant and his wife

The first Commandant, Karl Koch, ran Buchenwald from 1937 until early 1942, when he was transferred to Majdanek. He proved a notoriously brutal and corrupt administrator who enriched himself with valuables stolen from numerous inmates, whom he then had killed to cover up his thefts. The camp physician, Dr. Waldemar Hoven, murdered many inmates in cooperation with Koch and the Communist underground camp organization. Koch was eventually charged by an SS court with murder and corruption, found guilty and executed. (note 5)

His wife, Ilse Koch, was involved in many of her husband's crimes, but the fantastic charge that she had lamp shades and other items manufactured from the skins of murdered inmates is not true. This allegation was made by the United States prosecution team at the main Nuremberg trial. (note 6)

General Lucius D. Clay, Commander in Chief of U.S. Forces in Europe and Military Governor of the U.S. Occupation Zone of Germany, 1947-49, carefully reviewed the Use Koch case in 1948 and found that, whatever her other misdeeds, the lampshade charge was baseless. He commuted her sentence from life imprisonment to four years and informed the Army Department in Washington "There is no convincing evidence that she [Ilse Koch] selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tatooed skins or that she possessed any articles made of human skin." (note 7) During a 1976 interview Clay recalled the case:

    We tried Ilse Koch ... She was sentenced to life imprisonment, and I commuted it to three [four] years. And our press really didn't like that. She had been destroyed by the fact that an enterprising reporter who first went into her house had given her the beautiful name, the "Bitch of Buchenwald," and he had found some white lampshades in there which he wrote up as being made out of human flesh

    Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial.

    ... The Germans picked her up and gave her 12 years for her treatment of her own people. But it wasn't really a war crime in the strict sense of the word.

    And those are the kinds of things that we had to deal with all the time. (note 8)

In response to Treblinka, I've got a whole BOOK for you!

 Carlo Mattogno, Jürgen Graf, Treblinka. Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?

It is claimed that at Treblinka camp, between 700,000 and 3,000,000 Jews were murdered in 1942 and 1943. The weapons used were alleged to have been stationary and/or mobile gas chambers, poison gases of both fast acting and slow acting varieties, quicklime, superheated steam, electricity, diesel exhaust fumes... This thorough study exposes the Treblinka hoax.

http://vho.org/dl/ENG/t.pdf

This whole thread is like watching Dragon Ball Z.

Clear population records? No. It's all here:

http://vho.org/dl/ENG/Hoax.pdf

--------------------
# "No crematoria" capable of disposing of millions of corpses? Absolutely false, the crematoria were more than capable of the job, according to both the Nazis' own internal memos and the testimony of survivors. Holocaust-deniers deliberately confuse civilian, funeral-home crematoria with the huge industrial ovens of the death camps. This is discussed in much detail in the replies to questions 42 and 45.
------------------------
Read the leutcher report:

http://www.ihr.org/books/leuchter/leuchter.toc.html

Here, listen to an expert:
-------------
Absurd Cremation Claims

Cremation specialists have confirmed that thousands of corpses could not possibly have been cremated every day throughout the spring and summer of 1944 at Auschwitz, as commonly alleged.

For example, Mr. Ivan Lagace, manager of a large crematory in Calgary, Canada, testified in court in April 1988 that the Auschwitz cremation story is technically impossible. The allegation that 10,000 or even 20,000 corpses were burned every day at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944 in crematories and open pits is simply "preposterous" and "beyond the realm of reality," he declared under oath. [19]
---------------

Quote:
-------------------
Suchomel: So Stadie, the sarge, showed us the camps from end to end. Just as we went by, they were opening the gas-chamber doors, and people fell out like potatoes. Naturally, that horrified and appalled us. We went back and sat down on our suitcases and cried like old women.

Each day one hundred Jews were chosen to drag the corpses to the mass graves. In the evening the Ukrainians drove those Jews into the gas chambers or shot them. Every day!
--------------------

Uhm. No. First of all, read this:

http://vho.org/dl/ENG/t.pdf

Second, that's ridiculous. People don't fall out of of gas chambers like potatoes. Also, if I remember the story right, the people gassed at treblinka were supposed to have been gassed by carbon monoxide.

Uh. Again, why with the household killing agents. You get carbon monoxide from burning charcoal and from engines. If the nazis wanted to kill some people with gas, why not use cheap gas for killing humans instead of using some mad genius scheme? It takes a hell of a long time to be killed by carbon monoxide unless you've got an ungodly concentration of the stuff. For god's sake it's cheaper and easier to shoot people.

Since you like 'survivor' testimonies, here's a good one for you.
--------------------
Survivor Testimony

Former inmates have confirmed that they saw no evidence of extermination at Auschwitz.

An Austrian woman, Maria Vanherwaarden, testified about her camp experiences in a Toronto District Court in March 1988. She was interned in Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1942 for having sexual relations with a Polish forced laborer. On the train trip to the camp, a Gypsy woman told her and the others that they would all be gassed at Auschwitz.

Upon arrival, Maria and the other women were ordered to undress and go into a large concrete room without windows to take a shower. The terrified women were sure that they were about to die. But then, instead of gas, water came out of the shower heads.

Auschwitz was no vacation center, Maria confirmed. She witnessed the death of many fellow inmates by disease, particularly typhus, and quite a few committed suicide. But she saw no evidence at all of mass killings, gassings, or of any extermination program. [13]

A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungary in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily. She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of "gas chambers" during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassing stories only later. [14]
-----------------

Look, NS Germany would have said such pansy and underhanded stuff was Jewish, and they took that seriously. If nazis wanted you dead, they'd shoot you, not create fake shower-heads and a trap room for gas. Also, if they were going to formally shoot you, they'd tell you first and let you do your last rites like everbody else does. Seriously.


The only thing you've proven is that some jews made false claims about German atrocities, and not all the jews were in on it.

You copied Nikzor's reply without even reading any of the actual books I posted, or even the undeniables FACTS I listed which contradict the holohoax. 

I'm going to repeat this. Jews were mistreated, but they weren't gassed or used for lampshades or used for soap or fertilizer, and their blood didn't wash rocks out to sea either. Sorry, no evil genius schemes here with nazis rubbing their pasty white hands together thinking up new and creative ways to kill Jews. You guys really didn't matter that much to NS Germany. You were:

1. Labor
2. About to get a one-way trip to either Israel or Madagascar.

Jews suffered under National Socialist Germany. Ok. NS Germany didn't want you. They considered you pests that they wanted to export. Big deal. Lots of people expelled Jews throughout history. That almost expulsion was over 50 years ago. I'm not going to believe obvious exaggerations and fairy tales because some Jews desperately want to believe they are the most persecuted ones of all or to somehow give them some mystical victim status which protects them from all criticism. Go read all those quotes from the 'stop the jew hatred' thread by famous people from Cicero to George Washington to Benjamin Franklin to Mark Twain to Martin Luther to etc... Jews have been persecuting other people for over two thousand years and the whole time they've been saying, "Woe is me." Before Hitler, it was the Romans killing 40 million Jews. Stop lying and get over yourselves. The romans didn't kill 6 billion Jews or 40 million Jews, and Hitler didn't kill 9 million or 6 milion or 4 million or hell, a million. And even if a million Jews died non-natural deaths during WW2, they sure as hell didn't die from gas chambers or an active program by the Nazis. 

------------------------
This allegation is somewhat ironic, for Dr. Butz indicates in his book (109: p. 247) that Weissmandel was the likely initial source of the entire Holocaust myth, and that his training in Talmudic lore enabled him to draw on a rich and bizarre well of imagery. Butz cites Talmudic passages which describe how 4 billion (or in other sources, 40 million) Jews were slain by the Romans; how the tidal wave of Jewish blood carried boulders into the sea and stained the water for four miles out; how Jewish bodies were used as fence posts; how Jewish blood was used as fertilizer on Roman vineyards; and how Jewish children were rolled up in their Torah scroll and burned alive. In his book The Six Million Reconsidered (Noontide, 1979), William Grimstad deals even more effectively with the uncanny resemblance of modern-day "Holocaust" allegations with ancient Talmudic and Biblical anecdotes. On page 42, he shows a Talmudic illustration of the Fiery Statue of Molech, which he points out, bears a curious similarity to Auschwitzian "gas-ovens."
---------------


Here's the end result:

1. No civilian Jews were gassed by National Socialist Germany, at least in large numbers in a systematic attempt at killing large numbers of Jews.
2. Six million civilian Jews did not die by exposure to toxic gas, especially not the insecticide Zyklon B, during the period of WW2.

These negative facts stand however:
1. Criminals, enemies of the state, and non-citizens (including Jews) were rounded up into concentration labor camps by National Socialist Germany.
2. Many of the residents of these concentration camps died of disease and malnutrition; in some cases, so many died from disease and starvation that mass graves were necessary such as in Bergen-Belsen. However, the death by disease and starvation was not due to the action of the National Socialist Germans, but rather by their inaction and lack of fumigants like Zyklon B or basic resources such as food and fuel.
3. Many concentration camp residents lived a life that was far below the poverty line except in the nicer concentration camps that had plentiful access to resources and educated or influential people within those camps.
4. The concentration camp residents were forced at the end of a gun to work. They were not given freedom of choice, and were only one step above prisoners of war.

>>78
You said it yourself, Jews weren't all gassed, they died from collateral war damage, disease and starvation aswell as intentional killing. Generally outcast from Germany and treated like dirt by nazi occupiers. 6 million were there circa 1939, when their families went looking for them they weren't. Auschwitz was more of a hygiene operation, so there weren't so many dead bodies lying around.

No. No civilian Jews were gassed. Many Jews did actually join allied armies, and many part Jews joined on the German side as well. Military combatants might have been might hit with military gasses.

I think that probably around half a million Jews died in concentration camps, still a large number, but a far cry from the ridiculous six million that requires a suspension of reason.
Many of those things were from things like old age and natural causes. I mean the population was also replenished in the concentration camps as well. Over that couple of years, old people died and young people were also BORN in concentration camps. Strange twist of fate, eh? Life goes on.

    According to the holocaust legend, Jewish prisoners who arrived at Auschwitz between the spring of 1942 and the fall of 1944, and who were not able to work, were immediately put to death and that no records were kept of such deaths (even though all other deaths where recorded in detail)......

9,000,000
Source: Cited by the French documentary, Night and Fog, which has been shown to millions of school students worldwide.

8,000,000
Source: The French War Crime Research Office, Doc. 31, 1945.

7,000,000
Source: Also cited by the French War Crime Research Office.

6,000,000
Source: Cited in the book Auschwitz Doctor by Miklos Nyiszli. It has since been proven that this book is a fraud and the "doctor" was never even at Auschwitz, even though the book is often cited by historians.

5,000,000 to 5,500,000
Source: Cited in 1945 at the trial of Auschwitz commander Rudolf Höss, based on his confession which was written in English, a language he never spoke.

5,000,000
Source: Cited on April 20, 1978 by the French daily, Le Monde. Also cited on January 23, 1995 by the German daily Die Welt. By September 1, 1989, Le Monde reduced the figure to 1,433,000.

4,500,000
Source: In 1945 this figure was cited by another witness at the aforementioned Höss trial.

4,000,000
Source: Cited by a Soviet document of May 6, 1945 and officially acknowledged by the Nuremberg War Crimes trial. This figure was also reported in The New York Times on April 18, 1945, although 50 years later on January 26, 1995, The New York Times and The Washington Post slashed the figure to 1,500,000 citing new findings by the Auschwitz Museum officials. In fact, the figure of 4,000,000 was later repudiated by the Auschwitz museum officials in 1990 but the figure of 1,500,000 victims was not formally announced by Polish President Lech Walesa until five years after the Auschwitz historians had first announced their discovery.

3,500,000
Source: Cited in the 1991 edition of the Dictionary of the French Language and by Claude Lanzmann in 1980 in his introduction to Filip Muller's book, Three Years in an Auschwitz Gas Chamber.

3,000,000
Source: Cited in a forced confession by Rudolf Höss, the Auschwitz commander who said this was the number of those who had died at Auschwitz prior to Dec. 1, 1943. Later cited in the June 7, 1993 issue of Heritage, the most widely read Jewish newspaper in California, even though three years previously the authorities at the Auschwitz museum had scaled down the figure to a minimum of 1,100,000 and a maximum of 1,500,000. (see below).

2,500,000
Source: Cited by Rudolf Vrba (an author of various fraudulent accounts of events he claims to have witnessed at Auschwitz) when he testified on July 16, 1981 for the Israeli government's war crimes trial of former SS official Adolf Eichmann.

2,000,000
Source: Cited by Leon Poliakov (1951) writing in Harvest of Hate; Georges Wellers, writing in 1973 in The Yellow Star at the Time of Vichy; and Lucy Dawidowicz, writing in 1975 in The War Against the Jews.

2,000,000 to 4,000,000

Source: Cited by Yehuda Bauer in 1982 in his book, A History of the Holocaust. However, by 1989 Bauer revised his figure to 1,600,000.

1,600,000
Source: This is a 1989 revision by Yehuda Bauer of his earlier figure in 1982 of 2,000,000 to 4,000,000, Bauer cited this new figure on September 22, 1989 in The Jerusalem Post, at which time he wrote "The larger figures have been dismissed for years, except that it hasn't reached the public yet."

1,500,000
Source: In 1995 this was the number of Auschwitz deaths announced by Polish President Lech Walesa as determined by those at the Auschwitz museum. This number was inscribed on the monument at the Auschwitz camp at that time, thereby "replacing" the earlier 4,000,000 figure that had been formally repudiated (and withdrawn from the monument) five years earlier in 1990. At that time, on July 17, 1990 The Washington Times reprinted a brief article from The London Daily Telegraph citing the "new" figure of 1,500,000 that had been determined by the authorities at the Auschwitz museum. This new figure was reported two years later in a UPI report published in the New York Post on March 26, 1992. On January 26, 1995 both The Washington Post and The New York Times cited this 1,500,000 figure as the new "official" figure (citing the Auschwitz Museum authorities).

1,471,595
Source: This is a 1983 figure cited by Georges Wellers who (as noted previously) had determined, writing in 1973, that some 2,000,000 had died.

1,433,000
Source: This figure was cited on September 1, 1989 by the French daily, Le Monde, which earlier, on April 20, 1978, had cited the figure at 4,000,000.

1,250,000
Source: In the book, The Destruction of the European Jews, by Raul Hilberg (1985).

1,100,000 to 1,500,000

Source: Sources for this estimate are Yisrael Gutman and Michael Berenbaum in their 1984 book, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp. This estimate was later also cited by Walter Reich, former director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, writing in The Washington Post on September 8, 1998. The upper figure of 1,500,000 is (the new) "official" figure as now inscribed at Auschwitz, with the earlier figure of 4,000,000 having been removed from the memorial at the site of the former concentration camp.

1,000,000
Source: Jean-Claude Pressac, writing in his 1989 book Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers. This is interesting since he wrote his book to repudiate so-called "Holocaust deniers" who were called that precisely because they had questioned the numbers of those who had died at Auschwitz.

900,000
Source: Reported on August 3, 1990 11, by Aufbau, a Jewish newspaper in New York.

800,000 to 900,000

Source: Reported by Gerald Reitlinger in his book, The Final Solution.

775,000 to 800,000
Source: Jean-Claude Pressac's revised figure, put forth in his 1993 book, The Crematoria of Auschwitz: The Mass Murder's Machinery, scaling down his earlier claim of 1,000,000 dead.

630,000 to 710,000
Source: In 1994 Pressac scaled his figure down somewhat further; this is the figure cited in the German language translation of Pressac's 1993 book originally published in French. Again, this is substantially less than Pressac's 1989 figure of 1,000,000.

135,000 to 140,000
Source: This is an estimate based on documents held by the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross. It is known that International Tracing Service has a complete set of registration documents. This is thought to include a complete set of roll-call data which includes twice daily tallies of those who died. Although the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross has such records, they have never officially published an accurate count of those who died, or even an accurate report as to exactly which documents they hold. However, totals from these records have been obtained by various interested parties.

The estimate of 135,000 is roughly corroborated by the "Auschwitz death books." The death books themselves are wartime German camp records, which were captured by the Soviets towards the end of the war, and hidden in Soviet achieves, until released to the Red Cross in 1989.

The death books consist of 46 volumes which document each death at Auschwitz (each death certificate consists of the deceased person's full name, profession and religion, date and place of birth, pre-Auschwitz residence, parents' names, time of death, and cause of death as determined by a camp physician). The records for the most important years, 1942 and 1943, are almost complete (there are also a few volumes for the year 1941, but none for the year 1944 or January 1945 (when Auschwitz was evacuated)).

The Auschwitz death books contain the death certificates of some 69,000 individuals, of whom about 30,000 were listed as Jews. You may view various entries in the Auschwitz Death Books by clicking on the following links to the Auschwitz museum:

Using all available wartime records from the various camps it has been estimated that between 400,000 and 500,000 people died in the German concentration camp system (from all causes).

Curious onlooker here. Can someone explain why USSR and Italy are on the estimates in >>70? Some of those others, like Greece and Yugoslavia, were also quite peripheral to the whole mess.

Is this a list of what the Nazi's did, or what happened in all of Europe?

lol 4chan

guys i've been reading this and it reminds me..

back in new zealand i had a english teacher who taught me english (i am taiwanese)

she was one of the "survivors" of ww2 (shes polish).. her family members all died during that time.. but yes i can confirm she did not actually see any gas chambers..

all she saw was people dying of starvation, disease etc etc

her daughter also has written a book on her story.. but i can't remember the title anymore :/.. but she lives in new zealand right now..

I like how basically all the "evidence" you guys have was completely obliterated between
>>61
and
>>71
and these deniers have yet to comment on it

The evidence wasn't obliterated at all. You can't replace physical fact with testimony. The Jews testify that 4 billion Jews were killed by the Romans, so many that their blood washed out to sea, when we know for certain that 4 billion Jews did not exist at that time. Replacing physics with belief means you've stepped outside the bounds of reason, which holocaust mythologicians require you to do. I don't need to go out there and disprove every wacko claim. I just need to prove that it wasn't possible, and that people exaggerated and lied about facts in order to prop up the holocaust myth.

Also, some of the testimonies are pretty misleading although important historically (in my opinion), like for instance:
Quote from what that guy copied from nikzor:
-----------------
 The conspirators also supposedly managed to torture hundreds of key Nazis into confessing to crimes which they never committed, or into framing their fellow Nazis for those crimes, and to plant hundreds of documents in Nazi files which were never discovered until after the war, and only then, in many cases, by sheer luck. Goebbels' diary, for example, was barely rescued from being sold as 7,000 pages of scrap paper, but buried in the scattered manuscript were several telling entries (as translated in Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, pp. 86, 147-148):

February 14, 1942: The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness.
62    
Anonymous at 3 Apr 2006: 18:09

March 27, 1942: The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.

(This is a total freaking lie. The nazis estimated 4.5 million jews under their control.

The Nazis themselves said that they only had 4.5 million Jews under their direct control (see the analysis of the Wannsee  Minutes which I'll post in a minute) and they would have, in 1941 at least, when that estimate was made, had no particular reason to lie.

This figure is of particular interest when it is considered that as of 1988, some 4.3 million claims for compensation had been filed against the West German government by Holocaust survivors, according to the Federal German government.

Despite this, estimates by non-Nazi sources of the numbers of victims of Nazi concentration camps has varied wildly from six million to 11 million, depending upon which source one cares to consult. )


Michael Shermer has pointed out that the Nazis' own estimate of the number of European Jews was eleven million, and sixty percent of eleven million is 6.6 million. This is fairly close to the actual figure. (Actually, forty percent was a serious overestimate of the survival rate of Jews who were captured, but there were many Jews who escaped.)

In any case, most of the diary is quite mundane, and interesting only to historians. Did the supposed Jewish conspiracy forge seven thousand pages to insert just a few lines? How did they manage to know Goebbels' affairs intimately enough to avoid contradictions, e.g. putting him or his associates in the wrong city at the wrong date?

(This next sentence is untrue, interesting how revisionist website provide online sources to counter claims and nikzor doesn't.)
As even the revisionist David Cole has admitted, revisionists have yet to provide a satisfactory explanation of this document.
-----------------

Let me tell you a silly little secret. Here's my theory (just my theory based on my own research):

Goebbels was in favor of doing away with the Jews. However, Goebbels didn't make the decisions. Hitler did. Hitler regularly rejected ideas from Goebbels, and Goebbels sometimes got a little too emotionally charged up for his own good (he nearly committed suicide due to a relationship he had with a mistress a couple of years earlier.)  Hitler was in charge, not Goebbels. Goebbels was regularly far more extreme that Hitler was, and Hitler rejected many of his proposals and accepted others. Wikipedia lists Goebbels as the chancellor of Germany (Hitler was the penultimate), for a day from April 30 to May 1 on the eve of NS Germany's occupation after Hitler's mysterious suicide. That's not very much time to kill six million jews, especially when NS Germany's power is practically limited to Berlin's city limits.

What that diary proves to me is that Goebbels was for just shooting all of them and just being done with it during 1942. He never mentions it again, which is odd. Personally, I wonder if they would liquidate 60% and keep 40%? I know for certain that they planned on evacuations, but why keep 40% for forced labor? Also, in the earlier entry, destruction might not mean necessarily mean killing, but disbanding the Jewish banking power structure. Or, he might just mean he was for killing the lot of them. I'm fully willing to believe that Goebbels supported that idea in 1942, but not using fantasy 'gas chambers.' Nobody kills en masse using gas chambers. It's a stupid and impractical idea.

It doesn't matter, because Goebbel's personal opinion in 1942 was contradicted by nazi documents that expressed plans to NOT kill Jews by electro chambers or highly ineffective gas or comic book mad genius scheme or whatever, in addition to expressing concerns about preserving Jewish life and the life of concentration camp inmates in general. Concentration camp directors wrote letters and requests, concerned about the welfare of inmates. Oh, I'm sorry, it was all a nazi evil genius conspiracy. (I don't think the holohoax was a 'Jewish' conspiracy either, just the result of exaggeration, rumormongering, and later individual greed)

As I've mentioned before, testimony doesn't break physical laws. If the Germans had agreed collectively to kill the Jews, they would have shot them in mass graves and reused the casings, just like all the good ol' communist massacres. They had the power to do that. They didn't need to make shower heads that spit out a relatively low toxicity gas (carbon monoxide) that you can find in most homes, or use an explosive insecticide (Zyklon B) right next to a place full of ready-to-blow incinerators. They would have lined them up, and shot them. They didn't have to go through any underhanded comic book 'evil genius' schemes. That's silly. The gas story is just there out of pure speculation and imagination, and to take attention away from the fact that there were no six million bodies. Nazis, guilty of exaggerated crimes until found innocent, under charge of incredible levels of comic book villiany and bending the laws of nature using nazi black magic.    

David Irving comments on that diary as well:
 

I HAVE recently posted an extensive item on Goebbels's entry for March 27, 1942. There are of course very many references to the Jews in his diary, but certain things have to be borne in mind:

   1. after July 1941 he no longer hand-wrote his diary, but dictated it to a third person, his secretary, a civil servant, Dr Richard Otte (whom I interviewed in the 1960s);
   2. entries in the Goebbels diary incriminate him, but not necessarily third parties (that is an obvious evidence-argument);
   3. taken all together, and in conjunction with other files of his propaganda ministry, Goebbels's diaries leave the impression that he occasionally takes certain ideas to Hitler, (e.g. in August 1941 the Yellow Star to be worn by Jews), and sometimes persuades him, and sometimes doesn't;
   4. entries showing Hitler himself taking an initiative, which Goebbels receives and acts upon, are few and far between. Goebbels is almost always the motivating force. That being so, we must take his occasional references to Hitler "enthusiastically" supporting his ideas cum grano salis.

You have to get the feel of the diaries, and the way their writer uses them as much to conceal some things as to record others.

Here's a complete translation of the Wanasee Minutes:
The Wannsee Protocol
This English text of the Wannsee protocol is based on the official U.S. government translation prepared for evidence in trials at Nuremberg, as reproduced in John Mendelsohn, ed., The Holocaust: Selected Documents in Eighteen Volumes Vol. 11: The Wannsee Protocol and a 1944 Report on Auschwitz by the Office of Strategic Services (New York: Garland, 1982), 18-32.
 Stamp: Top Secret

 Minutes of discussion.
 I.   The following persons took part in the discussion about the final solution of the Jewish question which took place in Berlin, am Grossen Wannsee No. 56/58 on 20 January 1942.
Gauleiter Dr. Meyer and Reichsamtleiter Dr. Leibbrandt -  Reich Ministry for the Occupied Eastern territories
Secretary of State Dr. Stuckart  - Reich Ministry for the Interior
Secretary of State Neumann - Plenipotentiary for the Four Year Plan
Secretary of State Dr. Freisler - Reich Ministry of Justice
Secretary of State Dr. Buehler - Office of the Government General
Under Secretary of State Dr. Luther - Foreign Office
SS-Oberführer Klopfer - Party Chancellery
Ministerialdirektor Kritzinger - Reich Chancellery
SS-Gruppenführer Hofmann - Race and Settlement Main Office
SS-Gruppenführer Mueller,   SS-Obersturmbannführer Eichmann  -  Reich Main Security Office
SS-Oberführer Dr. Schoengarth  - Security Police and SD Chief of the Security Police and the SD in the Government General
SS-Sturmbannführer Dr. Lange -  Security Police and SD Commander of the Security Police and the SD for the General-District Latvia, as deputy of the Commander of the Security Police and the SD for the Reich Commissariat "Eastland".

II.  At the beginning of the discussion Chief of the Security Police and of the SD, SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich, reported that the Reich Marshal had appointed him delegate for the preparations for the final solution of the Jewish question in Europe and pointed out that this discussion had been called for the purpose of clarifying fundamental questions.  The wish of the Reich Marshal to have a draft sent to him concerning organizational, factual and material interests in relation to the final solution of the Jewish question in Europe makes necessary an initial common action of all central offices immediately concerned with these questions in order to bring their general activities into line.
The Reichsführer-SS and the Chief of the German Police (Chief of the Security Police and the SD) was entrusted with the official central handling of the final solution of the Jewish question without regard to geographic borders.
The Chief of the Security Police and the SD then gave a short report of the struggle which has been carried on thus far against this enemy, the essential points being the following:
a)   the expulsion of the Jews from every sphere of life of the German people,
b)   the expulsion of the Jews from the living space of the German people.
In carrying out these efforts, an increased and planned acceleration of the emigration of the Jews from Reich territory was started, as the only possible present solution.
By order of the Reich Marshal, a Reich Central Office for Jewish Emigration was set up in January 1939 and the Chief of the Security Police and SD was entrusted with the management.  Its most important tasks were
a)   to make all necessary arrangements for the preparation for an increased emigration of the Jews,
b)   to direct the flow of emigration,
c)   to speed the procedure of emigration in each individual case.
The aim of all this was to cleanse German living space of Jews in a legal manner.
All the offices realized the drawbacks of such enforced accelerated emigration.  For the time being they had, however, tolerated it on account of the lack of other possible solutions of the problem.
The work concerned with emigration was, later on, not only a German problem, but also a problem with which the authorities of the countries to which the flow of emigrants was being directed would have to deal. Financial difficulties, such as the demand by various foreign governments for increasing sums of money to be presented at the time of the landing, the lack of shipping space, increasing restriction of entry permits, or the canceling of such, increased extraordinarily the difficulties of emigration.
In spite of these difficulties, 537,000 Jews were sent out of the country between the takeover of power and the deadline of 31 October 1941.  Of these approximately 360,000 were in Germany proper on 30 January 1933; approximately 147,000 were in Austria (Ostmark) on 15 March 1939; approximately 30,000 were in the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia on 15 March 1939.
The Jews themselves, or their Jewish political organizations, financed the emigration.  In order to avoid impoverished Jews' remaining behind, the principle was followed that wealthy Jews have to finance the emigration of poor Jews; this was arranged by imposing a suitable tax, i.e., an emigration tax, which was used for financial arrangements in connection with the emigration of poor Jews and was imposed according to income.
Apart from the necessary Reichsmark exchange, foreign currency had to be presented at the time of landing.  In order to save foreign exchange held by Germany, the foreign Jewish financial organizations were--with the help of Jewish organizations in Germany--made responsible for arranging an adequate amount of foreign currency.  Up to 30 October 1941, these foreign Jews donated a total of around 9,500,000 dollars.
In the meantime the Reichsführer-SS and Chief of the German Police had prohibited emigration of Jews due to the dangers of an emigration in wartime and due to the possibilities of the East.
III. Another possible solution of the problem has now taken the place of emigration, i.e. the evacuation of the Jews to the East, provided that the Führer gives the appropriate approval in advance.
These actions are, however, only to be considered provisional, but practical experience is already being collected which is of the greatest importance in relation to the future final solution of the Jewish question.
Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final solution of the European Jewish question, distributed as follows among the individual countries:
A.
Germany proper   131,800
Austria   43,700
Eastern territories   420,000
General Government   2,284,000
Bialystok   400,000
Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia   74,200
Estonia   -Free of Jews -
Latvia   3,500
Lithuania   34,000
Belgium   43,000
Denmark   5,600
France/ occupied territory   165,000
        unoccupied territory   700,000
Greece   69,600
Netherlands   160,800
Norway   1,300
B.
Bulgaria   48,000
England   330,000
Finland   2,300
Ireland   4,000
Italy including Sardinia 58,000
Albania   200
Croatia   40,000
Portugal   3,000
Rumania including Bessarabia   342,000
Sweden   8,000
Switzerland   18,000
Serbia   10,000
Slovakia   88,000
Spain   6,000
Turkey (European portion)   55,500
Hungary   742,800
USSR   5,000,000
Ukraine   2,994,684
White Russia excluding Bialystok   446,484
Total   over 11,000,000 (In ALL Europe, BEFORE any Jews emigrated from Europe to escape the Germans, and included areas of Europe that Germany NEVER controlled)

The number of Jews given here for foreign countries includes, however, only those Jews who still adhere to the Jewish faith, since some countries still do not have a definition of the term "Jew" according to racial principles.
The handling of the problem in the individual countries will meet with difficulties due to the attitude and outlook of the people there, especially in Hungary and Rumania.  Thus, for example, even today the Jew can buy documents in Rumania that will officially prove his foreign citizenship.
The influence of the Jews in all walks of life in the USSR is well known.  Approximately five million Jews live in the European part of the USSR, in the Asian part scarcely ¼ million.
The breakdown of Jews residing in the European part of the USSR according to trades was approximately as follows:

Agriculture 9.1 %
Urban workers 14.8 %
In trade 20.0 %
Employed by the state 23.4 %
In private occupations such as medical profession, press, theater, etc. 32. 7%

Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.

The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)

In the course of the practical execution of the final solution, Europe will be combed through from west to east.

Germany proper, including the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, will have to be handled first due to the housing problem and additional social and political necessities.

The evacuated Jews will first be sent, group by group, to so-called transit ghettos, from which they will be transported to the East.

SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich went on to say that an important prerequisite for the evacuation as such is the exact definition of the persons involved.

It is not intended to evacuate Jews over 65 years old, but to send them to an old-age ghetto--Theresienstadt is being considered for this purpose.
In addition to these age groups--of the approximately 280,000 Jews in Germany proper and Austria on 31 October 1941, approximately 30% are over 65 years old--severely wounded veterans and Jews with war decorations (Iron Cross I) will be accepted in the old-age ghettos. With this expedient solution, in one fell swoop many interventions will be prevented.

The beginning of the individual larger evacuation actions will largely depend on military developments.  Regarding the handling of the final solution in those European countries occupied and influenced by us, it was proposed that the appropriate expert of the Foreign Office discuss the matter with the responsible official of the Security Police and SD.

In Slovakia and Croatia the matter is no longer so difficult, since the most substantial problems in this respect have already been brought near a solution.  In Rumania the government has in the meantime also appointed a commissioner for Jewish affairs.  In order to settle the question in Hungary, it will soon be necessary to force an adviser for Jewish questions onto the Hungarian government.

With regard to taking up preparations for dealing with the problem in Italy, SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich considers it opportune to contact the chief of police with a view to these problems.

In occupied and unoccupied France, the registration of Jews for evacuation will in all probability proceed without great difficulty.

Under Secretary of State Luther calls attention in this matter to the fact that in some countries, such as the Scandinavian states, difficulties will arise if this problem is dealt with thoroughly and that it will therefore be advisable to defer actions in these countries. Besides, in view of the small numbers of Jews affected, this deferral will not cause any substantial limitation.

The Foreign Office sees no great difficulties for southeast and western Europe.

SS-Gruppenführer Hofmann plans to send an expert to Hungary from the Race and Settlement Main Office for general orientation at the time when the Chief of the Security Police and SD takes up the matter there. It was decided to assign this expert from the Race and Settlement Main Office, who will not work actively, as an assistant to the police attache.

IV.  In the course of the final solution plans, the Nuremberg Laws should provide a certain foundation, in which a prerequisite for the absolute solution of the problem is also the solution to the problem of mixed marriages and persons of mixed blood.

The Chief of the Security Police and the SD discusses the following points, at first theoretically, in regard to a letter from the chief of the Reich chancellery:

1) Treatment of Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree: Persons of mixed blood of the first degree will, as regards the final solution of the Jewish question, be treated as Jews. From this treatment the following exceptions will be made:

 a)   Persons of mixed blood of the first degree married to persons of German blood if their marriage has resulted in children (persons of mixed blood of the second degree).  These persons of mixed blood of the second degree are to be treated essentially as Germans.

b)   Persons of mixed blood of the first degree, for whom the highest offices of the Party and State have already issued exemption permits in any sphere of life. Each individual case must be examined, and it is not ruled out that the decision may be made to the detriment of the person of mixed blood. The prerequisite for any exemption must always be the personal merit of the person of mixed blood. (Not the merit of the parent or spouse of German blood.)

Persons of mixed blood of the first degree who are exempted from evacuation will be sterilized in order to prevent any offspring and to eliminate the problem of persons of mixed blood once and for all.  Such sterilization will be voluntary.  But it is required to remain in the Reich.  The sterilized "person of mixed blood" is thereafter free of all restrictions to which he was previously subjected.

2) Treatment of Persons of Mixed Blood of the Second Degree: Persons of mixed blood of the second degree will be treated fundamentally as persons of German blood, with the exception of the following cases, in which the persons of mixed blood of the second degree will be considered as Jews:

a) The person of mixed blood of the second degree was born of a marriage in which both parents are persons of mixed blood.

b) The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a racially especially undesirable appearance that marks him outwardly as a Jew.

c) The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a particularly bad police and political record that shows that he feels and behaves like a Jew.

Also in these cases exemptions should not be made if the person of mixed blood of the second degree has married a person of German blood.

3) Marriages between Full Jews and Persons of German Blood: Here it must be decided from case to case whether the Jewish partner will be evacuated or whether, with regard to the effects of such a step on the German relatives, [this mixed marriage] should be sent to an old-age ghetto.

4) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of German Blood.

a) Without Children.

If no children have resulted from the marriage, the person of mixed blood of the first degree will be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto (same treatment as in the case of marriages between full Jews and persons of German blood, point 3.)

b)   With Children.

If children have resulted from the marriage (persons of mixed blood of the second degree), they will, if they are to be treated as Jews, be evacuated or sent to a ghetto along with the parent of mixed blood of the first degree.  If these children are to be treated as Germans (regular cases), they are exempted from evacuation as is therefore the parent of mixed blood of the first degree.

5) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree or Jews.

In these marriages (including the children) all members of the family will be treated as Jews and therefore be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto.

6) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of Mixed Blood of the Second Degree.

In these marriages both partners will be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto without consideration of whether the marriage has produced children, since possible children will as a rule have stronger Jewish blood than the Jewish person of mixed blood of the second degree.

SS-Gruppenführer Hofmann advocates the opinion that sterilization will have to be widely used, since the person of mixed blood who is given the choice whether he will be evacuated or sterilized would rather undergo sterilization.

State Secretary Dr. Stuckart maintains that carrying out in practice of the just mentioned possibilities for solving the problem of mixed marriages and persons of mixed blood will create endless administrative work.  In the second place, as the biological facts cannot be disregarded in any case, State Secretary Dr. Stuckart proposed proceeding to forced sterilization.

Furthermore, to simplify the problem of mixed marriages possibilities must be considered with the goal of the legislator saying something like: "These marriages have been dissolved."

With regard to the issue of the effect of the evacuation of Jews on the economy, State Secretary Neumann stated that Jews who are working in industries vital to the war effort, provided that no replacements are available, cannot be evacuated.

SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich indicated that these Jews would not be evacuated according to the rules he had approved for carrying out the evacuations then underway.

State Secretary Dr. Buehler stated that the General Government would welcome it if the final solution of this problem could be begun in the General Government, since on the one hand transportation does not play such a large role here nor would problems of labor supply hamper this action.  Jews must be removed from the territory of the General Government as quickly as possible, since it is especially here that the Jew as an epidemic carrier represents an extreme danger and on the other hand he is causing permanent chaos in the economic structure of the country through continued black market dealings.  Moreover, of the approximately 2 1/2 million Jews concerned, the majority is unfit for work.

State Secretary Dr. Buehler stated further that the solution to the Jewish question in the General Government is the responsibility of the Chief of the Security Police and the SD and that his efforts would be supported by the officials of the General Government.  He had only one request, to solve the Jewish question in this area as quickly as possible.

In conclusion the different types of possible solutions were discussed, during which discussion both Gauleiter Dr. Meyer and State Secretary Dr. Buehler took the position that certain preparatory activities for the final solution should be carried out immediately in the territories in question, in which process alarming the populace must be avoided.

The meeting was closed with the request of the Chief of the Security Police and the SD to the participants that they afford him appropriate support during the carrying out of the tasks involved in the solution.

The Wannsee meeting:

- took an interest in saving Jewish lives by warning of the ‘dangers’ of emigrating during wartime;

- ordered that ALL Jews aged over 65,  NOT be evacuated East;

- ordered that ALL German Jews who were decorated or wounded World War I veterans NOT be evacuated East;

and

- ordered that ALL Jews working in critical munitions and other factories NOT be evacuated East.

Only in one place do the minutes of the Wannsee meeting suggest (quote) “appropriate action” for a small number of Jews - but, given the context of the quote, the evidence is overwhelming that it was meant that these Jews were to be sterilized so that they could not reproduce.

WANNSEE CONFERENCE MINUTES REVEAL THE TRUTH: JEWISH EMIGRATION AND EVACUATION TO THE EAST

The real purpose of the Wannsee conference is best gained by a simple reading of the minutes of that meeting (all quotes are from the actual Wannsee Minutes, a full copy of which can be found here).

In its own words, the purpose of the conference was to attend to the “expulsion of the Jews from every sphere of life and living space of the German people”.

This aim was to be achieved as follows: “In carrying out these efforts, an increased and planned acceleration of the emigration of the Jews from Reich territory was started, as the only possible present solution.”

As a result of this enforced emigration, “537,000 Jews were sent out of the country between the takeover of power and the deadline of 31 October 1941.” (The “country” in question was Germany).

This emigration was financed by the Jews themselves: “The Jews themselves, or their Jewish political organizations, financed the emigration. In order to avoid impoverished Jews' remaining behind, the principle was followed that wealthy Jews have to finance the emigration of poor Jews; this was arranged by imposing a suitable tax, i.e., an emigration tax, which was used for financial arrangements in connection with the emigration of poor Jews and was imposed according to income.”

NAZI CONCERN FOR JEWISH SAFETY

The Wannsee minutes then show concern for Jewish safety: by placing a ban on emigration during wartime:

“In the meantime the Reichsführer-SS and Chief of the German Police had prohibited emigration of Jews due to the dangers of an emigration in wartime and due to the possibilities of the East.”

Nowhere in the Wannsee Meeting or its minutes is the murder of Jews discussed; only their emigration and evacuation - forced - to the eastern territories opened up after the German invasion of the Soviet Union.

The Wannsee minutes state this aim quite openly:

“III. Another possible solution of the problem has now taken the place of emigration, i.e. the evacuation of the Jews to the East, provided that the Führer gives the appropriate approval in advance.”

It is alleged that the term “evacuation” as used at Wannsee, meant extermination. There is, simply put, no evidence to support this supposition, and a wealth of evidence to indicate the opposite. For example:

NO JEWS OVER 65 TO BE EVACUATED

The Wannsee conference minutes say:

“It is not intended to evacuate Jews over 65 years old, but to send them to an old-age ghetto--Theresienstadt is being considered for this purpose.”

NO GERMAN JEWISH WORLD WAR ONE VETERANS TO BE EVACUATED

The Wannsee minutes then go on to make special mention of German World War One Jewish veterans in this way:

“In addition to these age groups--of the approximately 280,000 Jews in Germany proper and Austria on 31 October 1941, approximately 30% are over 65 years old--severely wounded veterans and Jews with war decorations (Iron Cross I) will be accepted in the old-age ghettos. With this expedient solution, in one fell swoop many interventions will be prevented.”

NO JEWS WORKING IN “VITAL” INDUSTRIES TO BE EVACUATED

The Wannsee conference also noted that Jews working in industries vital to the war effort are also not to be evacuated:

“With regard to the issue of the effect of the evacuation of Jews on the economy, State Secretary Neumann stated that Jews who are working in industries vital to the war effort, provided that no replacements are available, cannot be evacuated.”

The Wannsee minutes then record that Reinhard Heydrich, often fingered as the mastermind behind the conference, agreed and was recorded so in the minutes:

“SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich indicated that these Jews would not be evacuated according to the rules he had approved for carrying out the evacuations then underway.”

So, instead of a “blueprint to murder all Jews,” the Wannsee meeting actually took specific steps to protect certain groups of Jews from harm.

NUMBER OF JEWS UNDER GERMAN CONTROL IDENTIFIED

Above: The Wannsee Minutes discuss how many Jews there are in Europe and how many are under German control.

The Wannsee conference then discussed exactly how many Jews would be involved in their planned emigration program.  For this purpose, they divided Europe up into two sections - “A” and “B”.

The “A” territories included Germany and all those countries under direct German occupation: these lands were (with numbers of Jews in parenthesis) : Germany, (131,800); Austria (43,700); Eastern territories (420,000); General Government (2,284,000); Bialystok (400,000); Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia (74,200); Estonia (0); Latvia (3,500); Lithuania (34,000); Belgium (43,000); Denmark (5,600); France /occupied territory (165,000)/ unoccupied territory (700,000); Greece (69,600); Netherlands (160,800); Norway (1,300).

This gives a total of 4,536,500 Jews under German control. This is an important figure, as will be seen presently.

The “B” category countries were those with Jewish populations NOT under German control. These were: Bulgaria (48,000); England (330,000); Finland (2,300); Ireland (4,000); Italy including Sardinia (58,000); Albania (200); Croatia (40,000); Portugal (3,000); Rumania including Bessarabia (342,000); Sweden (8,000); Switzerland (18,000); Serbia (10,000); Slovakia (88,000); Spain (6,000); Turkey (European portion)(55,500); Hungary (742,800); USSR (5,000,000, including as subdivisions the Ukraine (2,994,684) and Byelorussia (446,484).)

This gives a total of 6,755,800 Jews in Europe NOT under direct German control.

These two figures, when added together, give a total of 11,292,300 Jews, of which, by the Nazis own estimates, only 4,536,500 were under German control.

CATEGORY “B” COUNTRIES EXCLUDED FROM GERMAN CONTROL

Of the “B” category countries, the following can be excluded from all calculations: England; Finland; Ireland; Portugal; Sweden; Switzerland; Spain; and Turkey; as none of these countries ever came under German occupation, nor in any way entered the German sphere of influence.

The other “B” category countries were either at some stage allied to Germany or parts thereof were occupied by German troops in combat, mostly against the Soviet Union. The former included Bulgaria; Italy; Croatia; and Rumania; the latter included Serbia; Slovakia; Hungary; parts of the USSR; Ukraine; and White Russia.

NOT ALL JEWS UNDER GERMAN CONTROL

It is however incorrect to assume that because a country was allied to the Germans, that those countries’ Jews were handed over to the Nazis. The most famous example of this is Bulgaria, whose entire Jewish population was protected by that country’s government, as recounted in Jewish historian Martin Gilbert’s Book “The Holocaust” (Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1985):

....."Also lucky were forty-eight thousand Jews of Bulgaria: those living within the pre-war borders of the state. At first, it seemed that they too would be deported, as had those from the Bulgarian- occupied zones of Thrace and Macedonia. Following German insistence, the Bulgarian government had indeed ordered the deportation of all Jews from Bulgaria proper, some of whom had already been interned. But the deportation order led to such an outcry from the Bulgarian people, including many intellectuals and church leaders, that the government rescinded the order, and Jews already taken into custody were released. The release of the Jews, which took place on March 10, came to be known in Bulgaria as a 'miracle of the Jewish people'."

(http://www.b-info.com/places/Bulgaria/Jewish/Holocaust.shtml)

The Yad Vashem - Israel’s official Holocaust memorial, itself claims on its website that Denmark only lost 60 Jews dead; that Finland lost 7 Jews dead, that of all Italy’s 58,000 Jews (by Nazi estimates) were reduced by only 7,600 and so on. (Yad Vahsem, http://212.143.122.31/about_holocaust/faqs/answers/faq_4.html)

 RUSSIAN JEWS FLEE INVADING GERMANS

 The German invasion of the Soviet Union, which started on 21 June 1941, would not have captured all the 5 million Jews which the Wannsee minutes calculated were present in this region.

Millions upon millions of Jews were evacuated by the Soviets themselves, or fled the advancing German troops.

Those Jews who stayed behind became the subject of German “Einsatzgruppen” or Special Action Group units. These Einsatzgruppen were sent in behind German lines with the express orders of fighting partisans, and then killing what remained of the Communist party infrastructure in the occupied areas of the Soviet Union.

EINSATZGRUPPEN EXAGGERATIONS

Due to the high number of Jews in the Soviet Communist party infrastructure (the Wannsee minutes actually make mention that over 23 percent of all Soviet Jews were employed by the state) this of course meant that many Jews became the target of the Einsatzgruppen.

Although a final figure of Jews killed by the Einsatzgruppen has never been presented, the most extreme estimates by Yad Vashem and others say that between 900,000 and 1.25 million people - Jews and others - were killed by the special action units.

This figure is without doubt a gross exaggeration, considering that the Einsatzgruppen never had more than 3,000 men in total serving in its units at any one time, and furthermore spent most of their time fighting partisans.

But even if this grossly exaggerated figure is accurate - and all evidence is that it is not - this grandiose figure is still nowhere near the 5 million Jews the Nazis estimated were in the Soviet Union’s territory.

ONLY 4.5 MILLION JEWS UNDER NAZI CONTROL

The point of this is that of the 6.7 million Jews estimated by the Nazis themselves to be in the category “B” countries; almost none actually fell into Nazi hands.

The category ‘A” country figure of 4.5 million Jews can therefore be taken as the most reliable estimate of the number of Jews who actually fell into Nazi hands, give or take a few hundred thousand.

4.3 MILLION JEWS CLAIM COMPENSATION FROM POST WAR GERMAN GOVERNMENT

And this is where the figures get interesting: this figure of 4,536,500 Jews is important when it is considered that, until the end of 1987, some 4,384,138 individual claims for compensation had been made by Holocaust survivors against the post war German government. (This figure is provided by the German government itself on its official website, (http://eng.bundesregierung.de/frameset/index.jsp).

This means, by the Nazis’ own reckoning, that of the estimated 4.5 million Jews directly under their control in 1942, at least 4.3 million had claimed compensation from the German government for persecution by 1987.

These figures by themselves speak volumes about the true number of Jewish casualties during the war.

WANNSEE MINUTES DETAIL JEWISH FORCED LABOR

The Wannsee minutes do not end there though: they go on to specifically state what is to be done with able bodied Jews once they have been evacuated and resettled in the Eastern territories:

“Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.”

This is the first mention of Jews dying - not by execution, but by “natural causes” be it disease or whatever.

“APPROPRIATE ACTION” FOR SURVIVORS OF FORCED LABOR

Then comes the only part of the Wannsee minutes which could be interpreted in a sinister fashion. Following directly on the remark that a large portion of able bodied Jews will be eliminated by natural causes, the relevant sentence reads:

“The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)”

What the minutes say here is that those Jews who are put to hard, forced labor on building roads in the East, and who survived the ardors of such forced labor, will represent the strongest elements of the Jews. These will have to be “treated accordingly” because if released, would act as the seed of Jewish revival.

It is alleged that this sentence means that these Jews - who, important to note, are not all the Jews, but only a small select group - were meant to be killed.

Read in context of the entire document, this conclusion is spurious.

“APPROPRIATE ACTION” MEANT STERILIZATION

Firstly, elsewhere in the Wannsee minutes, as already pointed out, specific mention is made of saving Jews from the ‘dangers of wartime emigration’ and even not evacuating certain classes of Jews.

To kill Jews on the one hand, and save whole groups on the other - was obviously not the intention of the Wannsee meeting or its minutes. It is lunacy to even suggest so.

The reference to “appropriate treatment” clearly means that these Jews are to be sterilized so that they cannot have children, a fact which becomes obvious when the very next section of the Wannsee minutes is read.

The next section - in fact one of single longest sections of the entire minutes - deals with which Jews should be evacuated, and how persons of mixed Jewish - German ancestry are to be handled, with the answer being to sterilize certain highly mixed groups rather than evacuating them.

To quote this section of the Wannsee minutes:

“Persons of mixed blood of the first degree who are exempted from evacuation will be sterilized in order to prevent any offspring and to eliminate the problem of persons of mixed blood once and for all. Such sterilization will be voluntary. But it is required to remain in the Reich. The sterilized "person of mixed blood" is thereafter free of all restrictions to which he was previously subjected.”

And

“SS-Gruppenführer Hofmann advocates the opinion that sterilization will have to be widely used, since the person of mixed blood who is given the choice whether he will be evacuated or sterilized would rather undergo sterilization.”

And

“State Secretary Dr. Stuckart maintains that carrying out in practice of the just mentioned possibilities for solving the problem of mixed marriages and persons of mixed blood will create endless administrative work. In the second place, as the biological facts cannot be disregarded in any case, State Secretary Dr. Stuckart proposed proceeding to forced sterilization.”

Read in this context, the meaning of the “appropriate action” remark becomes plain: by this it was meant to sterilize those Jews who had survived the forced labor in the East.

In conclusion then, the following can be said:

1. The Wannsee meeting and its minutes do not contain a master plan to kill Jews;

2. Nowhere in the meeting’s minutes is genocide discussed, planned, proposed or even suggested;

3. The number of Jews under Nazi control was estimated by the Nazis themselves to be in the region of 4.5 million (yet 4.3 million Jewish compensation claims have been lodged against the post war German government);

4. The Wannsee meeting was a planning meeting on how Europe’s Jews should be deported, via transit camps, to the East; with able bodied Jews being forced to build roads and other labor intensive tasks in those regions;

5. The most “sinister” part of the Wannsee minutes suggests that appropriate action, which, in the context of the document, clearly means sterilization, be applied to those able bodied Jews who survive the forced labor in the East;

6. The Wannsee conference also made allowance for specific exceptions to Jewish evacuation, such as Jewish German World War One veterans; ALL Jews over the age of 65; and ALL Jews working in industries vital to the German war effort, to be released from the threat of evacuation and be allowed to stay in Germany.

 To allege that the Wannsee conference was anything else than this, is a pure fabrication at best, and an outright lie at worst.

Keep making noise.  Whoever it is who's keeping information from us, or spreading disinformation will be made clear the more you bicker, all over the internet and all over the public.

Eventually we're going to get someone to go and find out, one way or the other, what's actually happened.

I honestly don't know if it was a hoax or not.  Both sides have such weird inconsistencies.

Isn't it a little suspicious that this was supposed to be some secret conspiracy by the Germans? The official records contradict the holocaust story and some of the testimonies, but some of the testimonies say that they didn't experience any of those things. I mean I've seen pictures of dead bodies in mass graves, and somehow that is supposed to mean that somebody got gassed. 30 people in a mass grave looks like a lot, I couldn't imagine millions. Stalin couldn't hide the people he massacred over many years, and yet somehow the nazis were able to over a short period of time during a war with a strain on their resources. The holocaust sounds like a good ol' nutcake conspiracy to me the more I read. Why didn't they test the bodies for gas residue or stuff like that? Why no autopsies? Why would the nazis use gas when bullets are cheaper? The testimonies conflict with each other, the physical evidence, and the actual claims the nazis made, and nobody can decide on a number. Some of the testimonial claims were just plain insane and impossible, and many sound physically possible but not realistically pheasible. The documentation goes against the German 'holocaust' conspiracy idea.

Maybe there wasn't a conspiracy on either side? Who needs a conspiracy when you've got massive anger and resentment going around. Nobody liked the nazis even if they didn't kill six million people in concentration camps. Some people benefited from this stuff, so they just looked out for numero uno and other people started catching on. I mean, how hard can it be to fake a holocaust survivor claim and make up a story? It isn't like people don't lie, and money will get people to do anything.

I tend to think that a whole bunch of rumors got started and some people just decided to run with it. Some people wanted attention and money I guess. It's not new.

If this really was such a huge conspiracy, why didn't they come up with better cover story?  Sometimes I think someone is just making shit up...

>>95

Quote:
Every apparently suboptimal action you can explain through either stupidity or cunning malintent.

Well. I'm going to go with stupidity here. The answer? There was no big conspiracy. Just a whole bunch of little lies that outgrew their breeches. It happens. We know world isn't flat anymore and the earth doesn't revolve around the sun and the Nazis didn't kill six million Jews.

Bleh, no biggie. Just don't say anything to a Jew cause they'll throttle you, call you an anti-semite, smear you, and throw you in jail if they can. That's more important than the asinine realization that mobs of people can lie for personal benefit.

Feh.

>>96

I don't know why every one is blaming the Jews for the nazi who got thrown in jail in Germany. There actully aren't that many Jews in Germany. I wonder why...

You should write a Wikipedia article

hey all you fucking holocaust denying idiots
my great grandfather survived the shit
he heard rumors, ran off to france and when the nazis invaded there they started moving trains of them auschwits
he's fucking told me about when you first went in you were in a line.  if you were "lucky" enough to be healthy enough for slave labor you were put in one line.  if the doc examined you and decided you wernt you went to the other line.  people in the other line were never seen again.

and dumbfuck while the slave labor was going on the germans would come to the rabbis and ask them to gather up the younger males and they were never seen again. hhmmmmmmm

why the fuck would my grandpa lie about this shit?  don't make much sense what did he have to gain?  plus, you forget about the thousands of documents of nazi fucks reporting to hitler how many jews they murdered that day

The jews want us to remember.....

All I remember is them getting fucking OWNED!!

100GET

>>99
gb2 oven

Thus proving, that all Holocaust Deniers want to believe that Jews have been trying to take over the world, which is certainly more plausible than a nation spouting horrific anti-semitic rhetoric actually exterminating them.

Proof this Jewish conspiracy to me, where are their documents?
List "Protocols of Zion" and you insta-fail, as that is an admitted propaganda work of the USSR.

>>99
read the entire thread or GTFO.

SOYLENT GREEN!!

>>99
Your grandmother is a pice of soap lol.

lol @ 17 year olds talking about politics on 4chan

>>99 go dai you jew lol

cartman onws joo(pun INTENDED MUTHA FUCKA )

Holocaust happened. Planes flew into towers. We landed on moon. Elvis is dead. Tupac is dead. Steve Irwin is dead. Jews don't run world. Conspiracy theorists are experts at twisting the facts and making it seem like they have hard evidence. Refuting all their evidence would likely take forever to research and be a gigantic waste of time and in general a big headache.

>>108
You're almost right. Elvis might still live. Tupac is about 99% dead. Holocaust happened, but no-one knows true death toll could be higher or lower than accepted 6 million. Jews don't run the world, but banking establishments do basically run money world. We landed on the moon for sure, but there might be something that NASA isn't telling about moon. There is no real questions of 911 however.

>>109 I still wonder about the strange heat sources at ground zero. Like, too many question marks, not to mention a laughable, half-hearted official investigation.

>>109
You're almost right. Elvis lives. Tupac was jesus. Holocaust didn't happen. Jews, grey aliens and the illuminati run the world by sleight of hand, every major event is their orchestration, all banks are owned by jews. We didn't land on the moon for sure, the moon doesn't even exist, but there is a secret base there. Jews did wtc.

>>110
Jews. Probably some FAGGOTS aswell.

200 000 dead in Darfur in 3 years by a poorly organised Arab militia and being displaced.

Is anyone telling me that the biggest military power in Europe could not pull off millions in more years and with an organised infrastrucure to do it.

>>108
THe moon landing was fake

Anyone dumb enough to believe it didn't happen doesn't deserve an intelligent arguement.

EW, JEWS!

!SWEJ, WE

NEVER JEW A JEW