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Holocaust denial

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-01 13:18

I have been reading a lot of stuff recently, some of which has disturbed me.  There are a lot of people out there who say the Holocaust, that horrible time in history they taught us about in school never really happened the way they say it did. 

They cite how there's no way camps like auschewits(sp?) had the capacity to eliminate as many people as they said were held there.  They talk about how zyklon-b wasn't really powerful enough to kill anyone, and those showers apparently outfitted with this chemical were actually used for a delousing procedure.  They talk about how it doesn't make any sense to trick people into going to their death when you've already got them in your custody.

I don't know man; holocaust deniers seem to have information to back them up, all kinds of evidence, to which the holocaust sympathizers only have name calling and questioning the motives of those who deny it.  I am someone who really would like to believe that the holocaust happened, if only so that I can believe there isn't a vast conspiracy behind it.  So, any holocaust sympathizers with a good rebuttal to what they're saying?

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-03 19:48

I'm going to repeat this. Jews were mistreated, but they weren't gassed or used for lampshades or used for soap or fertilizer, and their blood didn't wash rocks out to sea either. Sorry, no evil genius schemes here with nazis rubbing their pasty white hands together thinking up new and creative ways to kill Jews. You guys really didn't matter that much to NS Germany. You were:

1. Labor
2. About to get a one-way trip to either Israel or Madagascar.

Jews suffered under National Socialist Germany. Ok. NS Germany didn't want you. They considered you pests that they wanted to export. Big deal. Lots of people expelled Jews throughout history. That almost expulsion was over 50 years ago. I'm not going to believe obvious exaggerations and fairy tales because some Jews desperately want to believe they are the most persecuted ones of all or to somehow give them some mystical victim status which protects them from all criticism. Go read all those quotes from the 'stop the jew hatred' thread by famous people from Cicero to George Washington to Benjamin Franklin to Mark Twain to Martin Luther to etc... Jews have been persecuting other people for over two thousand years and the whole time they've been saying, "Woe is me." Before Hitler, it was the Romans killing 40 million Jews. Stop lying and get over yourselves. The romans didn't kill 6 billion Jews or 40 million Jews, and Hitler didn't kill 9 million or 6 milion or 4 million or hell, a million. And even if a million Jews died non-natural deaths during WW2, they sure as hell didn't die from gas chambers or an active program by the Nazis. 

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This allegation is somewhat ironic, for Dr. Butz indicates in his book (109: p. 247) that Weissmandel was the likely initial source of the entire Holocaust myth, and that his training in Talmudic lore enabled him to draw on a rich and bizarre well of imagery. Butz cites Talmudic passages which describe how 4 billion (or in other sources, 40 million) Jews were slain by the Romans; how the tidal wave of Jewish blood carried boulders into the sea and stained the water for four miles out; how Jewish bodies were used as fence posts; how Jewish blood was used as fertilizer on Roman vineyards; and how Jewish children were rolled up in their Torah scroll and burned alive. In his book The Six Million Reconsidered (Noontide, 1979), William Grimstad deals even more effectively with the uncanny resemblance of modern-day "Holocaust" allegations with ancient Talmudic and Biblical anecdotes. On page 42, he shows a Talmudic illustration of the Fiery Statue of Molech, which he points out, bears a curious similarity to Auschwitzian "gas-ovens."
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Here's the end result:

1. No civilian Jews were gassed by National Socialist Germany, at least in large numbers in a systematic attempt at killing large numbers of Jews.
2. Six million civilian Jews did not die by exposure to toxic gas, especially not the insecticide Zyklon B, during the period of WW2.

These negative facts stand however:
1. Criminals, enemies of the state, and non-citizens (including Jews) were rounded up into concentration labor camps by National Socialist Germany.
2. Many of the residents of these concentration camps died of disease and malnutrition; in some cases, so many died from disease and starvation that mass graves were necessary such as in Bergen-Belsen. However, the death by disease and starvation was not due to the action of the National Socialist Germans, but rather by their inaction and lack of fumigants like Zyklon B or basic resources such as food and fuel.
3. Many concentration camp residents lived a life that was far below the poverty line except in the nicer concentration camps that had plentiful access to resources and educated or influential people within those camps.
4. The concentration camp residents were forced at the end of a gun to work. They were not given freedom of choice, and were only one step above prisoners of war.

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