日本語 Japanese Ask Questions Thread 8

If you have a question about the language, ask it and fellow 4channers might see it and answer it for you.

英語でも日本語でもOK
日本の方からのご協力も大歓迎です

See >>2 for recommendations of
■ useful software
■ dictionaries
■ sites to get media
■ other resources

See >>3 for links to previous threads.

NOTE: For those new to the text boards, know that they work a little different from the rest of the site. If you click on the thread title you are only shown the first 40 posts. Use the "Entire Thread" link at the bottom of this thread to see the rest.

Is it only me or it a mistake here - 彼女のまた?
青ざめた月明かりに照らされた屋上の真ん中に、月光よりも白く、美しい少女が立っていた。美里は嬉しそうな微笑みを広げた。彼女のまた、静かな瞳をしていた。雪のように白く長い髪が、横に吹き流されていた。白いスカートの裾が、バタバタと揺れていた。

>>441
typo. 彼女もまた、

>>442
If I'm understanding correctly 美里=彼女, so is もまた  fine here?

>>443
Fine.
I guess 美里＝彼女, so I feel it's like「美里 smiled, and 美里's eyes looks calm as same as 白く美しい少女's eyes. 」.
I think this is the most natural interpretation.
And I think it's not so unusual even if you can't find the sentence which mentions "白く美しい少女's eyes looks calm" anywhere, though it's not easy to understand.

The other possibilities can not fully be denied. Like "彼女=白く美しい少女 and her eyes looks calm as same as 美里's."
or "彼女 is some other third person", or some other terrible typo. But I'd say the possibilities are small.

>>444
Sorry, here as it is:
ドアの向こうに、確かに彼女の気配を感じた。
わたしは、ドアノブを握りしめた。冷たく硬い感触を掌に包み込んだ。
そして、ゆっくりとひねり、向こうへ押した。
青ざめた月明かりに照らされた屋上の真ん中に、月光よりも白く、美しい少女が立っていた。
美里は嬉しそうな微笑みを広げた。彼女のまた、静かな瞳をしていた。
雪のように白く長い髪が、横に吹き流されていた。白いスカートの裾が、バタバタと揺れていた。
So, I'd say that 美里＝彼女=美しい少女

>>445
oh. Given that 美里＝彼女=美しい少女, neither もまた or のまた appears to make sense.
This time I'd say this is some terrible typo. "彼女は" "彼女はまた（=again）" "彼女はまた（=and also, her eyes look calm. ）" etc.
I have no idea.

Otherwise, 彼女もまた is the answer and it mean "美里 smiled, and 美里's eyes look calm as same as My eyes. ".
This is possible as I said in 444, though it's much more difficult to understand.

Anyway, one thing certain here is that "のまた" is a typo and I think no one can know the answer except for the author.

What is the point of と　after 光奈、璃子 in this sentence?
真っ先に中に入ると、続けざまに光奈、璃子と乗り込む。あたしは二人がエレベーターの中に入ったことを確認すると、階数を示したボタンを指で押した。

>>447
"with". They're fucking names.

>>447
got into a elevator in this order: 光奈, 璃子.
光奈、璃子と乗り込む ＝ 光奈、璃子の順番で乗り込む

I can't give or find a good grammatical explanation of this と usage. (But this is not a difficult or rare usage.)
So I searched for some illustrative examples.
東京→オーストラリア→ニュージーランド→東京 と周遊する場合、 http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1184324136
If I make a round tour in this order:Tokyo, Australia, New Zealand, Tokyo,
三角食べ - ご飯・おかず・汁物と順に食べる食べ方。http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/90269/m0u/
三角食べ（triangle eating）is a way of eating. To eat a meal in this order:rice, side dish, soup, rice... .
"順に" is inessential. This sentence can make sense as the same meaning with only "と".
However, though it's inessential, this "order" usage of と is often accompanied with some kind of "sequential" word like the followings: 順に、続けざまに、次々に、周遊、巡る、廻る、交互に etc.

Incidentally,
光奈、璃子と乗り込む ≠ 璃子、光奈の順番で乗り込む
光奈、璃子と乗り込む ≠ 光奈が璃子と一緒に乗り込む
光奈、璃子と乗り込む ≠ 私は光奈と璃子と一緒に乗り込む（In this context. Because "I" obviously got into the elevator before the other did. "真っ先に中に入ると、". ）
And you need only one "と" at the last. You can't say 「AとBとCと乗る。」as this "order" meaning.
If someone said 「AとBとエレベーターに乗った」, it always means "Got into a elevator with A and B.".

>>449
I'm sorry, I'd like to correct my post.
I've think twice and come to think that it's not necessarily "in the order" as written.
"one by one" perhaps is more appropriate. Though I think and get the impression it's in the order as written in most cases.
So please forget about「光奈、璃子と乗り込む ≠ 璃子、光奈の順番で乗り込む」.

ごめんなさい、訂正します。よく考えると、必ずしも順番通りである必要はないかもしれません。
one by oneの方が近いかも。大抵の場合、書いてある通りの順番だと思いますし、感じますが。
なので、「光奈、璃子と乗り込む ≠ 璃子、光奈の順番で乗り込む」は忘れてください。

>>450
Thank you very much for such a detailed answer, it was really useful.

Is it correct to translate this sentence - 脳裏に過ぎるのは、自殺者を出した事によるセンターへの迷惑。 like this - "The feeling of guilt to the medical center because of a committed suicide, is passes one's mind."

>>452

You have the idea right (I think), but the English is pretty bad. "What crosses (my) mind is the fact that the center would be troubled by a person committing suicide"

マレーシアの飛行機は中国へ行きまして、最近消えまたが、誰も飛行機が見つかられます。

A Malaysian airplane heading to China recently disappeared and no one can find the plane.


日本語で読んで、日本語で聞いて、日本語で書いて、日本語で話して、私は私の日記で日本語で書きますが、練習をするので。

To read, hear, write and speak in Japanese, I have to write Japanese in my journal in Japanese and practice.

Is the sentences I wrote correct?

>>454
You have a lot of issues with tense and conjugation. You should review basic things like how to make a negative (見つからない) and how to do the past polite form (消えました). Don't run before you can crawl.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

『あ……あぁ……』
気づけば、声が漏れていた。そのことが恥ずかしくて、一生懸命に歯を食い縛る。
――恥ずかしいって、誰に？
誰だろう。大事な人がいたはずなのだ。目指していた人が、辿り着くべき場所が。
走る体の、胴から胸が解けていく。大腸をとても長く、地面に垂れ流しながら、やがて千切れて背後に消える。

I cannot grasp the meaning of this sentence 目指していた人が、辿り着くべき場所が。　espessialy the first part 目指していた人が I'd translate it like this - "The person I tried to become(or to be like that 大事な人), the place I must reach"

>>456
S/he is expanding upon the previous sentence.

大事な人がいたはずなのだ。
目指していた人が(いたはずなのだ)
たどり着くべき場所が(あったはずなのだ)

Your translations of the individual lines seem fine. S/he is saying there is something or someone she was aiming to be like.

>>457
Thank you.

How can we translate「すっと通った」 in すっと通った鼻梁 I guess the whole phrase would sound something like this - "nice shape of nose bridge"?

ゆるやかに波打つ長いブロンドの髪。白雪のような肌は同じく白いサテンのドレスで覆われている。硬く閉ざされた瞼にすっと通った鼻梁。

>>459
It seems I was unobservant, found it now - 物の筋が整っている。 「鼻筋が－・っている」

Can someone please give the cue, in スリッパをばたつかせながらメインルームへ駆け込むと、真っ先に柊は部屋のエアコンを高めに設定する。 the both part of this sentence is doing 柊 ? Or the first half 「スリッパをばたつかせながらメインルームへ駆け込むと」 私 and 「スリッパをばたつかせながらメインルームへ駆け込むと、真っ先に柊は部屋のエアコンを高めに設定する。」　柊 ?

慌てて騒々しく振る舞う二人。わたしはその姿を脇目に見ながら、くしゅんと一つ、大きなくしゃみをした。
湖から別荘へと戻った頃にはすっかり日も暮れていた。スリッパをばたつかせながらメインルームへ駆け込むと、真っ先に柊は部屋のエアコンを高めに設定する。

>>461
It could be either, but based on the way the speaker talks I really doubt he is dashing around.

入れるなら入れるで - What is it means here? V1ならV1で, I ve looked through the grammar books but never found the explanation. (Sorry, not the best sentence to ask about, but I couldn't find an alternative.)

大体ねぇ！入れるなら入れるで！事前に”入れるよー”とか”入れますよー”とか言いなさいよ！勝手に入れちゃうとか！これはレイプよ！レイプ！！

>>462
Maybe he could because, before coming to 別荘 he fall into the lake and he is freezing -
 慌てて騒々しく振る舞う二人。わたしはその姿を脇目に見ながら、くしゅんと一つ、大きなくしゃみをした。
湖から別荘へと戻った頃にはすっかり日も暮れていた。スリッパをばたつかせながらメインルームへ駆け込むと、真っ先に璃子は部屋のエアコンを高めに設定する。
私：「うー、うー……寒い、寒い寒いッ！　凍えちゃう…！」

>>463
vならvで means "If you're going to do (verb), then (that's fine, but in that case), ~"

You'll see it also in the form vたらvで. From ALC:

何かあったらあったで、そのとき考えます。
If something comes up, I can deal with it then.

etc.

>>464
Maybe so. ~と、~ is usually going to be from the speaker's perspective, so this seems more likely.

So I'm starting to understand the difference between は　and が. However, there are still some things that confuse me.

If I want to say, "Who is he?", both of these sentences seem correct to me.

誰が彼ですか？

彼は誰ですか？

Which one is correct?

わたし「ずっと長い間、馬鹿みたいに母のことだけ追いかけてきたわ…」
ジェイ「随分一途だな」
わたし「哀れだな、の間違いじゃない？」
ジェイの真摯な瞳が運転席からじっとわたしを見据えてくる。
ジェイ「俺はそんな風には思ってない」
わたし「知ってるわ。だからこんなにも大きな声で独り言を漏らしてるの」
ジェイ「相槌は不要ってことか」
わたし「相槌なんてうつ気にもならない話をするってことよ」

I cannot understand why athe author didn't use the passive in 相槌なんてうつ気にもならない話をするってことよ -> 相槌なんてうたれる?
Maybe I'm mistaken something but as far as dialogue go:
ジェイ「So, you mean the back-channeling is not needed?」
わたし「I mean that it is the discussion where I'm not in the mood to hear back-channelings」
As far as I can understand it's ジェイ the one who throws an approperate woeds into a conversation no the speaker?

>>467
It's a concept, not a specific thing. I'm not sure why you think it should be the passive. Also I have no idea what you mean by "back-channeling". It's listed as one translation for 相槌 in EDICT, but I've never heard the word and I imagine it's a linguistic term.

相槌なんてうつ気にもならない話→"a story that doesn't make one feel like using 相槌"

>>455
Both of those were typos 消えまして and 見つかられます was supposed to be 見つかれません (Polite, negative and potential). But other than that is the sentence alright?

Sorry to bother you all, but could someone translate this Japanese blog post and its comments? Or if not translate, give a quick and simple interpretation of what's being said?
http://watamote.com/bbs/comment-page-8/#comment-2898

>>469
No, it's nonsensical. Read more example sentences and start by making simpler sentences.

Also, how on earth do you manage to make such flagrant typos on a sentence you're hoping to get checked by others? That confuses me.

Please don't listen to >>468

Anyone who's spoken to Japanese person knows the importance of back-channeling (i.e. letting the other person know you're listening to them through subtle cues such as nodding, or quick responses that fill in lulls of speech, etc.)

Very rarely is "back-channeling" translated as is, because 1) there isn't a proper term for it in English, and 2) its not a prominent concept for that reason. Instead, "listening", "responding", "comprehending", etc. can all be used to mean roughly the same but without the nuance.

There are many reasons this isn't passive. I'd suggest you remind yourself what the passage is actually used for, because very often it carries other means. In this case though, Watashi is referencing their conversation hyperbolically or rhetorically in the sense "what are we talking about", not "what is being expect of me that is not being done to me"

Here's a translation:

わたし「ずっと長い間、馬鹿みたいに母のことだけ追いかけてきたわ…」
I've been chasing after my mother like some kind of idiot for such a long time
ジェイ「随分一途だな」
You're really putting your all into it. 
わたし「哀れだな、の間違いじゃない？」
You sure you don't mean "You're really pathetic"?
ジェイの真摯な瞳が運転席からじっとわたしを見据えてくる。
Jay's sincere eyes moved from the driver's seat to state at me firmly.
ジェイ「俺はそんな風には思ってない」
That's not what I'm thinking.
わたし「知ってるわ。だからこんなにも大きな声で独り言を漏らしてるの」
I know. That's why you're just talking to yourself in such a loud voice.
ジェイ「相槌は不要ってことか」
Are you saying you don't need to respond to me?
わたし「相槌なんてうつ気にもならない話をするってことよ」
I'm saying you're not saying anything to make me feel like I should!

>>472
>Anyone who's spoken to Japanese person knows the importance of back-channeling
I never said it wasn't important, I said I've never heard the term and it shouldn't be used in translation that way. Don't put words in my mouth.

>>472
I got the subject mixed up in the last part, but the meaning is still there.

>>472
Also, it's clear you're the one who doesn't know what's going on in the conversation. 知ってるわ。だからこんなにも大きな声で独り言を漏らしてるの is talking about herself (=she is the one who is talking to herself). That's the ずっと長い間、馬鹿みたいに母のことだけ追いかけてきたわ… from earlier in the conversation.

相槌は不要ってことか is saying "You don't want people to chime in (相槌) on your mumblings (独り言)". Why the hell would Jay be talking about responding to himself? He didn't initiate this.

お母さまを真似して作ってみたんだけど、カンペキに思ったとおりの仕上がりなの
カンペキに in this sentence describes 思った... or not? Don't know why but not really sure about it.

>>476
カンペキに goes with the entire phrase. "It came out perfectly, exactly like I thought it should!"

>>476
Sorry but I cannot understand why, maybe because of particle の here connects 思ったとおり with 仕上がり or maybe　カンペキに　here represents subjective judgement of the writer or speaker?

>>478
I don't have any better explanation for you, you can look at it as going with 仕上がる if that helps. I have no idea what subjective judgment would have to do with anything. I don't think it's worthwhile to obsess over what adverbs go with which verbs when so much can be dropped from a sentence.

>>479
>you can look at it as going with 仕上がる if that helps.
Now that you mention it, I found a similar example.

ターキー・サンドイッチと一杯のスープは完璧に健康的な組み合わせです。
Turkey sandwich and a cup of soup is a perfect healthy combination.