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OFFENSIVE TITLE

Name: OFFENSIVE NAME 2011-06-02 16:55

HIGHLY OFFENSIVE RANT ABOUT HASKELL

AUTISM

MORE AUTISM

EVEN MORE AUTISM

OHGOD AUTISM EVERYWHERE

LISP

LISP IS GOOD

LISP IS BETTER THAN EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVE IN

LISP GIVES ME A RAGING BONER

I WANT TO MARRY LISP

OH LORD IN HEAVEN I LOVE LISP SO MUCH I WOULD KILL MYSELF FOR LISP

ALSO EMACS

WINDOWS IS PIG DISGUSTING

I AM USING SOLARIS BECAUSE I KNOWS TEH LUNIX

AND TOTALLY NOT BECAUSE I AM FUCKING STUCK AT MY JOB AS SERVER ADMINISTRATOR (ALSO A RONERY FAGGOT)

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 16:56

ok

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 16:57

1) be calm and go smell flowerz outside they smel real good you dont have to code in a dark cave all day FEEL THE WIND IN YOUR WATERY EYES. SOMEDAY YOU WILL TURN INTO A CAMEL

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:01

little boys need bitterSweet love too

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:02

no srsly kat

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:02

>>1
SOLARIS
Unix faggot.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:04

I am a slave. Please rescue me from this cynical horror.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:07

>>1
SOLARIS
A worse-is-better OS created by the same evil corporation, that created JAVA (worst language ever).

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:12

fukken java why is it so sl0w

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:13

h4x0r my 4nu5 f4g3t

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:14

currently someone is haxoring my honeynet. i feel so special and loved

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:19

>>8
JAVA (worst language ever).
That's not C.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:21

troll my anus

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:27

>>12
Java/C/C++/Haskell - they're all the same. You can refer to them as a single language.

Lisp and Assembly > XML > Forth > SmallTalk > C and BASH > Perl/Python/JS/Ruby/PHP > Algol/Java/C#/Haskell/Delphi/ML/F#/C++/Scala/Visual Basic/Pascal

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:36

>>14
Poor.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:36

a penny for the average IQ from /prog/

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 17:44

>>15
Yep! Algol is a poor language for anything.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 18:03

>>14
That's completely messed up.

SKI calculus = Lambda calculus > Lisp family = Forth = Macro Assembler > Smalltalk = Io = Self > Assembly > Lua = Tcl > APL > JS > Perl 6 > Ruby > Perl > ALGOL family[1] > ML family > Miranda family = Clean > Erlang > *Your new hipster pseudo-functional language of the week here* > Factor > *Your new half-assed PHP/FIOC/JS/whatever Lisp implementation* > *Your new half-assed PHP/FIOC/JS/whatever Clojure-inspired Lisp implementation* > LOGO family > Python > Pascal family > Clojure[2][3] > Go[3] > Java > CPL family[4] > C family[5] > C++ > FORTRAN family[6] > PHP > BASIC family > sh(1) and derivatives > ``in Lisp'' DSL

[1] We've got lexical scope from here.
[2] Special case not included in Lisp.
[3] It was pretty hard to put these two even below Python, but they do suck that much.
[4] C and C++ not included.
[5] C++ not included.
[6] CPL family not included.

Name: AUTISM 2011-06-02 18:07

AUTISM

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 18:21

SKI calculus = Lambda calculus
These aren't even real languages. Just Set Theory extensions.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 18:23

>>18
Clojure[2][3]
Clojure does one things right: Persistent Data Structures. No more this mutable OOP shit.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 18:25

>>18
Lisp family = Forth = Macro Assembler
Forth cannot in macros
MASM isn't even turing complete.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 18:36

>>20-22
You don't understand SKI and lambda calculus, Clojure is crippled in many ways, FORTH has immediate words, I wasn't specifically talking of MASM, just decent macro assembler, and no shit, computers are not Turing-complete?

You just continue to show how ignorant you are. Have you tried Forth? Have you tried Clojure? Have you tried/do you know something about the languages you listed in >>14? No, you don't. Lisp doesn't make you a genius. Get the fuck out of my /prog/, you and your shitty inferior DSL, you make all Lispers look bad, you're the embodiment of all what's wrong with the world, if you were never born the whole world would've been a better place. Fuck you, follow one of these links, get out, and never come back.

http://boards.4chan.org/b/
http://boards.4chan.org/g/
http://boards.4chan.org/sci/
http://dis.4chan.org/sci/
http://dis.4chan.org/vip/
http://7chan.org/
http://www.reddit.com/

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 19:09

>>23
You don't understand SKI and lambda calculus
Neither I uderstand Set Theory or God or Infinity. It's religion.

Have you tried Forth?
I tried Factor (advanced version of Forth with lambdas and even continuations), before coming to Lisp. No way to bind variables, continuous refactoring and stack effects. It was awful.

FORTH has immediate words
C/C++ has #define. Even BASH has textual substitution

Have you tried Clojure?
Yes. I loved persistent data structures and lazy lists.

Clojure is crippled in many ways
It's main problem is that it require JAVA.

Have you tried/do you know something about the languages you listed in >>14?
I tried Haskell and C++, but they required Set Theory to understand their typeclasses. I haven't tried Java or ML, as on the first sight they look like a more complicated versions of C++.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 19:22

>>23
http://boards.4chan.org/sci/
already got ban there.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 19:37

It's just some russian-in-lisp-finitist-antisemit-guy probably working in supercomputer center.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 19:40

>>23
He thinks /proggles~/ is some sort of speshul sexpert purgroamers club

How cute!

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 19:48

>>26
Whats wrong with being russian and antisemit, considering how much evil jews done to my country?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 20:38

>>28
Your rants don't make sense. We may take you more seriously if your evidence wasn't strongly affected by confirmation bias.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 20:44

Mathematicians demand proofs in Set Theory. This is like the Catholic Church requiring Mass be given in Latin. It is a method of guaranteeing only the priests (the true believers) know the Church's doctrines. It is designed to prevent skeptics (non-believers) from being able to question Church doctrine, since you need to know a dead language to have any idea what that doctrine is.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 20:44

>>29
IF communism isn't evil, then what is evil?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 20:53

>>31
North Korean dictatorship. General Gaddafi's actions against his own population. Destruction of Cambodia.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 21:17

>>32
North Korean dictatorship.
North Korean is the communism at its best.

General Gaddafi's actions against his own population
Can't judge Gaddafi, but it looks like he defends interests of his people against jews, who wan't to rob them.

Destruction of Cambodia.
Also a commie country.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 21:46

>>28

I don't follow you:

- Evil jews fucked up the soul of Mother Russia with communism
- therefore Set Theory is evil.

???

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-02 23:18

>>30

* head explodes *

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 0:34

>>34
It were commie-jews together with a kabbalistic sect of onomatodoxists, who introduced the Set Theory in russian schools.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 0:36

Rabota Boga was founded in Moscow on Sept. 6, 1909, at a time when the Orthodox world was being rocked by the new creed of "Onomatodoxy". The Onomatodoxists, led by the great Schema-monk Illarion, believed that "The name of God is God Himself and can produce miracles"; this was condemned as heresy by the church fathers, and as rival groups of monks rioted in their monasteries, the Tsar himself was obliged to mediate. The Imperial Government eventually found a cleric to produce a theological compromise, but the bad feeling remained.

One victim was a war hero and newly-tonsured monk, Antony Bulatovich, who had been expelled from his monastery for promoting Onomatodoxist dogma. Bulatovich aimed to give others like him a new course; instead of retiring into monasteries, he felt, men with a secular calling as well as a sacred one should be able to follow both at once. The solution: in addition to vows of poverty, chastity and obedience, a man pledges to God all his professional talents.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 0:38

Florensky published works on the parallels between abstract mathematics and religion: he stated that the mathematics of continuous functions is like rationalism while some concepts, such as transfinite numbers, can be explained only in the framework of the Imiaslavie philosophy, where the Name of God is God Himself.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 2:30

im 12 years old and what is this

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 3:00

>>37,38

The historians of mathematics Loren Graham and Jean-Michel Kantor have stated that the work of the Russian Mathematics School is still filled with this mysticism while the French Mathematics School is considered to be based on rationalism.

Crazy motherfuckers with their Mathematics filled with mysticism.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 6:49

>>24
C/C++ has #define. Even BASH has textual substitution
You don't understand immediate words.

>>25
already got ban there.
Try the textboard. Get out.

>>27
Yeah, let's get more >>24s in and let them shit up this place with their antijews shit and opinion-driven language bashing with no evidence whatsoever on why they are bad except ``lol their jews''.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 7:17

>>41
>You don't understand immediate words.
How are they better than #define?

>Try the textboard. Get out.
Science = Set Theory. You love Set Theory. Maybe you should go there?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 7:19

>>42
How are they better than #define?
Just like Lisp macros are better than #defines.
Science = Set Theory. You love Set Theory. Maybe you should go there?
No, go there.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 19:00

>>43
Just like Lisp macros are better than #defines.
List macros work with lists. Forth has no lists.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 22:17

>>44
implying you can't implement forth in lisp

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-03 23:56

>>45
implying implementing forth in lisp would add anything to what lisp provides out-of-box

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 0:14

>>44
Forth immediate words work on, well, the stack and Forth words.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 0:20

>>47
Can you express a LOOP macro, using them?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 1:54

Immediate words have much in common with imiaslavie.

The idea that naming is an act of creation goes
back very far in religious and mythological
thought. The claim has been made that the
Egyptian god Ptah created with his tongue
that which he conceived. In the Jewish mystical
tradition of the Kabbala (Book of Creation,
Zohar), there is a belief in creation
through emanation, and the name of God is
considered holy.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 2:12

>>49
Ancient Egyptians were no better than jews.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 2:54

>>50
And Onomatodoxy is part of the Russian Orthodox Church, what now? You are trying to establish the pertinence of theories according to the moral values you associate with civilizations where these theories were born. How is that scientific or pertinent? It's bullshit paranoia, IIMI.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 2:59

>>51
As goes the russian saying: you need to understand what you understand.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 3:38

>>52

Popular sibylline village saying as an argument.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 3:39

>>53
What do you understand under the term "argument"?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 3:48

>>54
Making your point with a popular sibylline ...

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 3:53

>>55
What is my point?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 4:43

>>56
Your point is: I hate Jews, therefore Set Theory is wrong.

I don't quite understand, but old Greeks and there logic might be another Jewish trick.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 4:45

>>57
*their, oh Dear...

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 4:56

>>57
Your point is: I hate Jews, therefore Set Theory is wrong.
Nope. I hate jews no more than I hate rats or other vermins. I just pointed that the founders of the Set Theory were religious and jewish, and that you can't show us that for every N there is an unique N+1 > N. You also can't show us, where do we need infinitesimals in practice and why can't we replace modern mathematics with something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_trigonometry, that completly avoids notion of infinity.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 4:58

>>48
Probably, but that's not how you use Forth.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 4:58

>>57
Zeno was a smart greek, he showed us that you can't express "continuous" motion, so that there must be quants.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 5:00

>>60
Everything, where you use Forth, you can use Lisp instead.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 5:08

>>62
>everywhere
self fix

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 5:08

>>62
A minimal Forth implementation is smaller than a minimal Lisp implementation. It's perfect for embdedded systems, it's perfect for low-level programming, it's complementary to Lisp. You clearly haven't achieved Satori, and never will, ignorant antijew pig.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 5:54

>>64
He'll probably blame satori as a jewish invention designed to create financial opportunities to the enlightened.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 9:45

>>59
and that you can't show us that for every N there is an unique N+1 > N
Why not?
Let's say you define a system where M is the largest number. You can prove that said system is consistent internally and all that.
Now suddenly M isn't enough to express your problem so you redefine it to be 2*M, or M+1 in size (still finite). You keep doing that as your needs increase. Can you show that no such further redefinition is possible?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 10:11

>>59
For which number N is there no N+1 > N? Then, what is the cardinality of the power set of a set with cardinality N?

Also, fuck off.

Name: >>66 2011-06-04 10:19

>>67
I think >>59 thinks Peano axioms are not consistent, despite that the only thing we know is that we cannot prove their consistency within only themselves (but we can do that for finite sets, but can we do so for all finite sets?).

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 13:19

MORE LIKE
ZISC OR GTFO
AMIRITE LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLZzz!!11oNE!!1ONE1!

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 15:36

>For which number N is there no N+1 > N?
For the size of observable universe. There is nothing after it.

>Then, what is the cardinality of the power set of a set with cardinality N?
please, define "set"

>>64
A minimal Forth implementation is smaller than a minimal Lisp implementation.
Why would you want a complete compiler on embedded system?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 15:39

>>70
Why would you want a complete compiler on embedded system?
A complete minimal Forth implementation could fit in your MBR.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 15:45

>>71
And you can code a 3d-intro in your MBR. So what?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 15:52

>>72
In less than 510 bytes? I doubt it.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 15:56

>>66
>Can you show that no such further redefinition is possible?
Can you show us, that you have enough paper and ink to write such a number, that is: to continue applying successor axiom S(S(S(...))) ad infinitum?

>>73
Ask demosceners.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:10

>>70
For the size of observable universe. There is nothing after it.
Okay, so such a system with N equal to all the informational content that can be stored in our universe, you're claiming that such N+1 cannot ``exist''.

My question to you would be why do you think this particular universe exists? Why this particular size? Why these particular ``laws of physics''?

My personal opinion on this is that the universe is isomorphic to some system which can be described formally and maybe such systems are even enumerable (so in your beloved set theoretic way I would say that the cardinality of the set of all universes is at least countably infinite (I'm not claiming that any such universe is infinite or that it require non-computational laws!)), although wether they are truly enumerable is unknown (but all Turing Machines are).

If you're going to claim that no other such formal systems (and thus universes) exist, you will have to justify why exactly only this particular instance with these particular rules exists.

If you're going to claim that others may exist, but that their number is finite, you will have to justify why you chose a maximum number of such systems (remember, they do not exist within our universe, they are universes themselves, so the argument that N(as previously mentioned) is the maximum number cannot hold as there can be an universe which can hold N+1 information).

While your argument is fine for systems we can practically implement within our own universe, it cannot hold for more abstract systems (such as other possible universes).

I suppose you could claim that you're a full-on solipsist and the physical reality does not exist in any way or form and that your mind's states are not supervenient to physical states within this universe and if you do that, I cannot argue with you as changing your mind through physical means also means destroying your current state of mind and thus would not be proof to yourself (it can only be proof for a third party).

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:17

>>70
>There is nothing after it.
define "nothing"

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:19

>>75
My question to you would be why do you think this particular universe exists? Why this particular size? Why these particular ``laws of physics''?
I see it. But I don't see that for each N there is N+1 > N.

While your argument is fine for systems we can practically implement within our own universe, it cannot hold for more abstract systems (such as other possible universes).
While your argument is fine for our mortal world, the God will punish you to Hell!!11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

Please, stop seeing invisible pink unicorns.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:19

>>76
Aren't you and >>70 the same person? Both completly finitist and quoting improperly to troll people?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:21

>>76
Infinity, God, The Set of All Sets, Which Don't Contain Itselves.

Name: >>76 2011-06-04 16:23

>>78
I was sorry for >>75, who took him seriously, and wanted to point out that >>70-kun doesn't believe in infinity, but he does believe in ``nothing'', which is as abstract as infinity (empty set, anyone?)

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:33

>>78
That's the joke, >>76 is imitating >>70.

>>70
Math is one of the most abstract sciences there is; stop involving stupid things like "the size of the observable universe".
IHBT.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:35

>>77
I see it.
You can't see what is around your back right now, nor can you hear what is happening in the Earth's core. Your sensory input is quite limited each time, but you can put together a model of the world and from there you can reason. You lack information about the existence of most things, you rely on information provided in other ways to infer their existence. The same way I infer that if an universe has very specific laws then it's very likely that other universes with other specific laws will exist, I don't think the number of such universes is finite as one can always amend the laws in various ways (for example, you could try defining each as one Turing Machine and you can enumerate them all like natural numbers, however the number of all such machines is infinite, like natural numbers).

I don't see what the point of linking to Pascal's Wager, believing in a ``God'' is silly because the probability of our universe being ``ruled'' by one is low and there is no physical evidence to support it, however as sad as I find it, the possibility for such a ``God'''s existence cannot be fully ruled out, except when it's not logically possible (but you cannot rule out that someone is living in some upper universe, simulating yours and will not extract the patterns in your synapses, emulate them and decide to give you a paradise or torture you depending on some arbitrary rules, but then one cannot rule out that another universe exists with a ``God'' with completly complemetary rules to the other, in which case, regardless of what you do, you will experience both ``Heaven'' and ``Hell''). In the end all this is pointless to argue about and the best way to live one's life is to not care wether any such being exists or can exist and thus Pascal's Wager is not a compelling argument for me.

Please, stop seeing invisible pink unicorns.
Where did I claim to see any such thing? The only thing that I did was make an inference. Let me illustrate it in another example:

You are put in a prison cell and have an arbitrarily large number written on it. You may infer that that could be your prisoner number/identifier. You may infer that other prisoners are likely to exist (or have existed) without actually seeing them. This is not strong evidence, but a good enough suggestion.

There is one way to prove the Ultimate Ensemble hypothesis right or wrong through a scientific test, but we that live in this universe cannot ever know the result of that test (but others may and could even use this result to their advantage). I could elaborate on this further if you're interested.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:36

>>81
"abstract" is just another term for religious pseudoscience

he does believe in ``nothing'',
Nothing is an error code. Like division by zero.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:43

>>82
You lack information about the existence of most things, you rely on information provided in other ways to infer their existence
At least I've seen them before.

``God'' is silly because the probability of our universe being ``ruled'' by one is low and there is no physical evidence to support it
What physical evidence that for every N there is N+1 > N?

You are put in a prison cell and have an arbitrarily large number written on it. You may infer that that could be your prisoner number/identifier. You may infer that other prisoners are likely to exist (or have existed) without actually seeing them.
Nice lateral thought fantasies. But where is cell numbered "Infinity"?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:49

>>84
What physical evidence that for every N there is N+1 > N?
Natural numbers are not defined in any physical way, they are defined by axioms.
But where is cell numbered "Infinity"?
I don't think I ever argued for literal infinity as a value belonging to the set of natural numbers(unless it's just a symbol denoting a set's cardinality, in which case it's defined, although in a rather shaky way). I merely argue that you cannot find the end of the set and thus you may as well call it infinite.

My argument was also along the lines that using maximum informational content possible within the universe as the maximum number you can have is not a valid argument as other universes can exist (and are likely to exist: that was the point of the prisoner thought experiment) and in those universes the visible universe could contain a larger number and so on, so physical implementation of a number cannot be required.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:51

>>84
What physical evidence that for every N there is N+1 > N?
What's the last number? Add one to it.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:56

>>85
I merely argue that you cannot find the end of the set and thus you may as well call it infinite.
So, seeing a single finite cell id, that there is an "infinte set" number of such cells? Nice inference!

Natural numbers are not defined in any physical way, they are defined by axioms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma

maximum informational content possible within the universe as the maximum number you can have is not a valid argument as other universes can exist
That is Pascal's Waget at its best! You should believe in X, because X can exist. Also "can exist" is a little ambiguous quality.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 16:58

And I completly forgot to mention the fact that the universe is constantly expanding thus if a final state existed (I'm not claiming it does), the size would be infinite, however one could claim that it is finite at any finite moment of time (this does however lack evidence, but it's probably a reasonable assumption).

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:01

>>88
at any finite moment of time
Yeah, but when does time stop?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:01

>>87
So, seeing a single finite cell id, that there is an "infinte set" number of such cells? Nice inference!
Except you have a rule which lets you produce the next element.
Let's try it like this:


0 == 0
1 == (1+ 0)
2 == (1+ 1) == (1+ (1+ 0))
3 == (1+ 2) == (1+ (1+ 1)) == (1+ (1+ (1+ (1+ 0))))
...


That is Pascal's Waget at its best! You should believe in X, because X can exist. Also "can exist" is a little ambiguous quality.
Pascal's Wager claims that you should change your behavior because of some possible arbitrary rule might exist. My answer to it is that both said arbitrary rule and the opposite of that rule can exist thus the change in behavior is not warranted.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:03

>>86
What's the last number? Add one to it.
0xFFFFFFFF+1 = 0

BTW, some physicists hypothesize that universe is recursive (that is: merges onto itself), like the surface our planet Earth, which in dark ages, was believed to be infinite.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:05

>>91
Then, Lisp and non-32-bit unsigned integers are jewish?

0]=> sbcl
This is SBCL 1.0.48, an implementation of ANSI Common Lisp.
More information about SBCL is available at <http://www.sbcl.org/>;.

SBCL is free software, provided as is, with absolutely no warranty.
It is mostly in the public domain; some portions are provided under
BSD-style licenses.  See the CREDITS and COPYING files in the
distribution for more information.
* (+ #xFFFFFFFF 1)

4294967296

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:06

>>91
Even if the universe's size is finite and the universe's laws are describable in a finite and concrete way, that won't answer why this specific size and those specific laws. If one reaches that conclusion they will probably reach the conclusion that this universe is just an instance in a ``sea'' (set) of possible other universes and that the number of possible universes is not finite (although wether it is a countable or uncountable infinity remains to be debated: if it's countable, this most likely means arithmetic is not consistent and only finite systems can exist, but the number of finite systems is a countable infinity).

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:07

>>90
Except you have a rule which lets you produce the next element.
You have a rule, which lets you stack items into a tower. But we all know, that if you put too many items in it, the tower will collapse.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:08

>>92
Try (+ 1 (expt 2 #xFFFFFFFF))

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:09

>>92
"0x" != "#x"

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:10

>>94
What rule states that the tower may collapse? This is only a concern for physical systems.
The meta-rules describing the physics of this universe are not subject to these issues. They only need be consistent within themselves, although it's not required that they can prove their own consistency by themselves.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:13

>>97
What rule states that the tower may collapse?
Gravity and material properties.

This is only a concern for physical systems.
The meta-rules describing the physics of this universe are not subject to these issues.
Metaphysical systems are religion.

They only need be consistent within themselves
define "consistent"

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:18

>>98
consistent
You cannot form a statement within the system which is both true and false. Free from contradiction.

Gravity and material properties.
There is no gravity and material properties in Peano's Axioms.

Metaphysical systems are religion.
So once you reach a consistent description of the ``Theory Of Everything'' that describes the universe, and for argument's sake (so it would be more convenient for you), let's say the universe is finite, the laws are finite and as we know arbitrary enough (although quite symmetric), how do you justify the universe having a specific size and specific laws?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:20

>>95
SBCL has a limit on the precision of its bignum, it probably has a variable to raise the limit. So what? 2^(2^32)+1 is still a valid number (although too long to fit in a /prog/ post)

>>96
Don't be stupid.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:22

>>100
I think >>95's argument is that that number takes more than 4GB and won't fit on a 32bit x86 CPU. Hardly an issue for a different system, but of course you could always devise a number which cannot be implemented physically in this universe as it would require more universe than the universe can hold, but this doesn't mean that this number cannot exist formally or that there may not be an universe out there where it could be implemented physically.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:23

*require more memory than the

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:27

>>100
Hardly an issue for a different system

Try (+ 1 (expt 2 (expt 2 #xFFFFFFFF)))

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:27

>>101
Saying that a number doesn't exist because it's physically impossible to have such quantity in this universe is just as childish and stupid than saying that there cannot exist 1G$ because they wouldn't fit in my wallet.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:33

>>104
Don't stop believing, dear creationist!

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:34

>>105
But they do not fit in my wallet, how can they exist

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:37

>>106
If haven't seen God, then it must exist.

Name: >>101 2011-06-04 17:38

>>104
I didn't claim that, but that's the claim that the ``finitist troll'', ``in Lisp'' guy or whatever his other personas/names are. I can understand his arguments, but while I could see arithmetic someday being shown inconsistent (worst case scenario), along with the rest of the math and thus the only thing that remains is finite computation and logic - even in that case, the number of consistent, but finite systems would be infinite (even if only countably infinite).

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:38

>>107
But does it fit in my wallet?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:40

>>108
finite would be infinite
Wow!

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:41

>>107
That depends on the definition of the term. There could also be an infinity of possible ``God''s, that doesn't mean they would have any physical effect on the world we live in or that one should change their behavior if some religion's ``God'' exists within some contained universe. The existence or inexistence of such a being bears no relevance to beings of matter existing in this universe (but wether it could bear relevance to informational patterns representing someone else's mind is another issue).

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:43

>>110
Any natural number is finite. The number of natural numbers isn't.
Any enumerable turing machine is finite. The number of enumerable turing machines is not.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:44

>>111
That depends on the definition of the term.
Yes. Anything "unseen" is "God". That is the point. It's a meaningless buzzword.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:44

>>108
I know, but he's still and childish moron with little to none knowledge whatsoever on the subject he keeps bashing. Hell, I too did ask myself ``what's the last number?'' and ``if infinity is the last number, what's inf+1?'', but when I was five, goddamn.

Right now, he's just negating reality, he does not have any concrete proof in his favor, besides his delusions.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:45

>>112
The number of natural numbers isn't.
"The number of natural numbers" is invisible pink unicorn.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:45

>>114
Your whole post is an ad hominem. It would be a waste of time to argue with you.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:49

>>115
Would you prefer that I call it ``the cardinality of the set of natural numbers''? Or that you won't be able to find a natural number which can represent ``the cardinality of the set of natural numbers''?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:51

>>117
I have never proceeded from any Genus supremum of the actual infinite. Quite the contrary, I have rigorously proved that there is absolutely no Genus supremum of the actual infinite. What surpasses all that is finite and transfinite is no Genus; it is the single, completely individual unity in which everything is included, which includes the Absolute, incomprehensible to the human understanding. This is the Actus Purissimus, which by many is called God. -- Georg Cantor

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 17:56

>>118
You objected when >>114 used that ad-hominem on you, but now you're arguing against Cantor using the same method, not only that, you would probably argue against him purely based on his race (which is actually an open question today).

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-04 18:47

>>119
Nope. This is a quote from wikipedia.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-05 4:16

>>120
Even if you didn't mean it as an ad-hominem, someone's statements should stand by themselves and whatever statements that cannot be verified or that are outside someone's field should not influence the value of their other statements and contributions. Newton believed in a lot of crazy stuff, but that doesn't make his contribution to physics or calculus any less.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-05 17:50

>>121
Are you saying that Cantor's theory is "crazy stuff"? What allows you to insult Cantor's avowed figure? Wake up! Everything Cantor says is true, cause he is the universally recognized mathematical authority, not you.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-05 21:51

>>122
No, he's not. He said Newton had some crazy beliefs, which I suppose Newton may have regarded as theories at the time.

I will say that virtually all of Cantor's theories indeed qualify as 'crazy stuff', which has nothing much to do with their validity. Fucker went shithouse rats working on part two. Poor guy, but he gave us something great in the process. I for one am grateful.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-05 23:22

>>123
he gave us something great in the process.
But this "great" was based purely on his ideas and beliefs! It wasn't based on physical observation, like original Greeks did with geometry. Newtons use of infinitesimals also owes its existence to his belief.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-06 0:19

>>124
Or does it

Name: >>123 2011-06-06 1:08

>>124
Oh sorry, I meant to avoid posting in this thread. Didn't see the title this time around. I'll excuse myself now. Sorry again for wasting your time!

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-06 7:17

>>126

LISP IS BETTER THAN EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVE IN

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-06 7:38

>>127
dats bcuz jews did it lol amirite?

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-06 12:38

relevancy

Name: OFFENSIVE NAME 2011-06-06 12:54

OFFENSIVE POST

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-06 12:55

>>18
fuck off and die you faggot

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-06 13:54

>>131
I'm starting to think you can tell what my posts are.

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-06 14:12

>>132
Of course, I just searched the database by IP address.

Don't change these.
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