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Strategy Game Collaboration

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-19 0:46

Experimental RTS/Space sim Collaborative Coding Project.
The goal is to design a game with structure/settings/balance of Starcraft and scale of Eve Online(i.e. huge space battles, space empires,etc).
Though this wouldn't stop anyone from contributing code/feedback/criticism, i'll be coordinating the project.
All code/ideas should be posted in this and subsequent threads which i'll start as needed.
step #1: We will collaboratively create a name for our project.
Each suggestion must explain why this name fits the project and why its better then any other generic name.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-19 12:38

>>80 Thats the point: any wheel can be reinvented. Its ``experimental'(aka hacking) coding project. Not ``Enterprise' "time-proven" "industry-standard" "widely-used" project which leverages synergies and skillesets and other bullshit.

Well, as for current arguments for any language. it seems /prog/ doesn't have anything better to offer then Scheme.
next : Choosing a compiler and accompanying graphics library/engine.


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When you look at the whole life of the planet, we - you know, man - has only been around for a few blinks of an eye. So if the infection wipes us all out... that is a return to normality.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-19 12:42

Notes: Compiler must be freely distributable. No commercial software.



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These tests will have no effect on your grades. They merely determine your future social status and financial success...

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 12:43

>>81

ah sorry, I thought you actually wanted a project that wont die of inactivity 1/10th way through

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 12:47

>>83
Dude, this is ! we're talking about here. ! can be quite persistant.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 12:52

Guys, if we waste anymore time on 'strategy game collaberation', we'll be bankrupt by the end of the month!

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 12:54

>>85

no worries boss, i was a shoplifter/rapist before starting programming

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 13:06

>>84

hey are you that japanese guy (l?) that was making a bank with php a while back?

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 13:31

>>87
I am not that person. I use ! to represent a character that will not be mentioned. Another name for this character is "/prog/'s greatest contributor ever".

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 14:13

You guys are debating the language choice?

Just go with C like every other project or enjoy being the only one able to read the code.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 14:24

Stop seeing his posts!

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-19 14:44

>>89 Not quite. The choice is which Scheme compiler to use.
No valid arguments for any other languages were presented in this thread.

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Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 15:03

Will you be licencing this game under the creative commons attribution licence 2.0 ?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-19 15:05

>>92 Its can be licensed with whatever license you pick. The code will be posted on /prog/.



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Necessity is the step-mother of invention.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 15:36

>>91
Valid arguments...? Do you really know that little about programming languages to not be able to make a rational judgement as to which (from a choice presented to you by /prog/) to use? Are you actually seriously basing your choices on who presents the ``most valid'' argument?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-19 15:44

>>94 Who presents most convincing arguments to his languages/compilers/code/ideas worth decides. Simple and logical.



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Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-19 16:20

>>94 Here is summary:
>>60 No arguments.
>>62 No arguments.
>>66 No arguments.
>>68 C++ "wide usage" OpenGL "because its 3D" "wide range of hardware" "platform-independent"
"wide usage" is "its good because its popular" -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
"because its 3D" A graphics library is required to be 3d (game is 3d). Its not a feature or argument
"wide range of hardware" As well as any OpenGL wrapper library. Who would use libraries without hardware support?
 "platform-independent" Many languages are, though this isn't not critical as 90% of intended audience uses Windows.
>>69 No arguments.
>>73 "a lot of software developers " -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
"C++ has been amazingly well documented" I'd won't touch undocumented languages. Its not really a "feature".
"incredible libraries" subjective. C++ require specific compilers and settings to use well, and arcane build process.
"support" this isn't tech support issue. Documentation is what we need.
>>76 "natural choice" subjective.
"fast" partially. If compiled via C to asm.
"very easy to learn" valid argument: used in education of non-programmers.-> Short learning curve
"all the features of LITHP" debatable, though partilyl correct since Scheme is Lisp dialect.
"none of security risks of sepples" valid argument: C++ code is prone to memory leaks, buffer overruns and other exploits.
>>78 "OpenGL support" same as >>68. No valid arguments in favor of OpenGL.
>>80 "time-proven API'" -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition
>>89 "enjoy being the only one able to read the code. "  If Scheme has short learning curve /prog/ would be capable of reading the code and thus negating this. otherwise post implies  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition



 

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On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 16:34

Stop seeing his posts you retards.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 16:51

>>96
You said you wanted ``experimental/hacking'' language.  Scheme isn't being experimental, it's beating a dead horse.  Scheme has existed nearly as long as C, and is widely known, but nothing much ever came of it.  Let it rest in peace.

You also rejected C♯ and Java for speed reasons, because they don't compile to native code.  Of course, Scheme doesn't compile to native code either, and is in fact slow as fuck.

And of course ``easy to learn'' has nothing to do with usefulness over a long-term project, but then Scheme is really no easier than any other scripting language.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 16:55

There really are no other options besides C and C++ dude.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 17:05

Python combines remarkable power with very clear syntax. It has a lot libraries. Python supports multiple programming paradigms.

/thread

Name: !3LrT5NRVks 2009-07-19 17:05

Fuck You frozen void.  You are nothing but a wanker.
Get a fucking hobby.  Also, serious ban request.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 17:07

>>100
Python ... power
0/360

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 17:53

>>102
Not a troll, this is just what pythons programmers really believe.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 17:57

>>103
I assumed that being a Python programmer was itself an act of trolling.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 18:19

>>104
No, but not saging this thread is now a slappable offence.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 18:30

>>105
*takes off glove*
*slaps*
I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 20:38

>>104
it is.
nobody seriously uses Python, you would have to be completely fucking insane to do so.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 21:16

>>107
Oh wow. I'd better let Google know that they're completely fucking insane for using Python in their system. I'll quote anonymous of /prog/ for this marvellous insight.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 21:19

>>108
YHBT.
Also, please leave, it's obvious that you're new here if you fall for something so obvious.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 21:30

* >>110 slaps >>105 around a bit with a large trout

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 21:39

>>109
Cool story bro

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-19 23:15

I'm convinced FV didn't have any other goal than trolling when s/he created this thread.
Still, I feel like answering that last post of his/her.

The main two characteristics of games are these: they are a lot of code, and their results have to be visible in real time or not at all, which means they have to be reasonably efficient.
Sure, you can go and write it in Scheme or whatever else you want, and it will probably be okay, at least for a while. Just keep in mind that if any slowdowns caused by the code exist, they will only appear once the codebase becomes large enough. At that point you'll very likely be well beyond the point of no return and have only two choices: optimize or scrap. If you can't optimize or you've optimized as much as possible and it's still not enough then that's it. The time you spent on the code is a total loss and you have to start over in a different language.
Professional game developers don't write in C and C++ because it's cool or anything like that. They do it because both languages were designed with efficiency in mind, which means it's impossible, or at least very hard, to fuck up so bad that the entire project has to be scrapped.

Ease of learning is not a valid argument. Only the project participants and the compiler need to know the language.
In any case, all of /prog/ knows how to read C.

Security is not the main concern in game development. A game with a few memory errors that runs smoothly is preferable to an airtight game that will run smoothly in ten years.
There are tools to find both buffer overflows and memory leaks in C/++ code, so that's not even a problem.

There are two options (that I know of, anyway) to write 3D applications: OpenGL and Direct3D. There doesn't appear to be any difference in neither performance nor hardware support, so the only real difference is OS support. OpenGL runs on practically anything and Direct3D runs only on MS platforms and sort of runs on Wine. A game that runs on anything is technically superior to a similar game that only runs on the platform X, regardless of the market share of said platform.

This is meant as advice for writing an actual game that will be intended to be played, and not what was presented on >>5, which is just a troll.
If the project is intended to be merely masturbatory, then none of the above applies. The "game" can be written in anything, as much time as possible should be spent reinventing wheels, and the code will try to use the most complicated approach to solve any problem, rather than the most efficient or simple.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-20 0:25

>>112
At that point you'll very likely be well beyond the point of no return and have only two choices: optimize or scrap.
I'm not a filthy Schemer, but it seems to be that one of the benefits of writing in Scheme would be that optimizing can be done more quickly.

In any case, all of /prog/ knows how to read C.
All of /prog/ knows how to reach Scheme too.

A game with a few memory errors that runs smoothly is preferable to an airtight game that will run smoothly in ten years.
Uh, no. Running without crashes is pretty important.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-20 0:49

>>113
>I'm not a filthy Schemer, but it seems to be that one of the benefits of writing in Scheme would be that optimizing can be done more quickly.
I can't speak for Scheme, nor was I talking about any one language in particular.

>Uh, no. Running without crashes is pretty important.
But not more important than efficiency. If you can't run the thing at all, whether it crashes or not is irrelevant.
A buffer overflow only makes a program more likely to crash, and a memory leak doesn't affect crash probability.
Since games don't need to be written to run for a very long time (e.g. a single 12 hour session can be considered very long), memory leaks are not a considerable worry. And, like I said, there are tools to catch buffer overflows.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-20 0:50

>>114
You can't catch things that don't happen on your test system. And then you push a game that just crashes now and then on some poor sucker. Don't do it.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-20 0:52

>>114
Also, learn to quote FFS. This isn't rocket science.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-20 1:24

>>115
Valgrind and memory debuggers in general.

>>116
I have better things to do. Learning rocket science could be one of them.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-20 1:38

>>117
I have better things to do. Learning rocket science could be one of them.
No, you clueless anus, you don't have better things to do. Learning how to quote takes a few seconds, don't give me this ``don't have time'' bullshit. You won't even notice the time spent.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-20 1:39

>>117
Valgrind and memory debuggers in general don't help you with bugs they haven't seen.
There you go.

I have better things to do. Learning rocket science could be one of them.
Could be, but isn't. Someone who can't manage to quote sure isn't going to get a rocket off the ground.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-20 1:41

>>118
>Learning how to quote takes a few seconds
A few seconds I will never get back. The classic greater-than style is just as good and I don't need to learn anything new. Fuck your quotes.

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