Strategy Game Collaboration

Experimental RTS/Space sim Collaborative Coding Project.
The goal is to design a game with structure/settings/balance of Starcraft and scale of Eve Online(i.e. huge space battles, space empires,etc).
Though this wouldn't stop anyone from contributing code/feedback/criticism, i'll be coordinating the project.
All code/ideas should be posted in this and subsequent threads which i'll start as needed.
step #1: We will collaboratively create a name for our project.
Each suggestion must explain why this name fits the project and why its better then any other generic name.

What >>520 means to say is that whatever console command-line a Lisp provides is not meant for general use. Anyone with an ounce of sense uses some decent environment instead.

let me guess, were still talking about what fucking language to use?

>>522
Oh, no. We stopped doing that long ago.

We were just arguing about FV's definitions of such terms as "compiler", "runtime", and "virtual machine".

Before that, we were also discussing that's impossible to write any sort of moderately complex program without linking a library at run time, which FV complained about because it involved installing or copying libraries. He wants the game to be a single executable without any dynamic dependencies.

Hello /prog/! I would like this game to run on my toaster. Thank you!

This thread isn't nearly as fun without frozen chef every 3 posts.

I look around, and I can't tell who has been trol't.

...IHBT.

You know what? It's kind of a moot point. You probably don't know this, but there IS a fusion game between RTS and Space sim. It's called Allegience.

http://www.freeallegiance.org/

>>527
Not free software. I can't get it to work on my system.

>>528
Fuck your shit.

>>528
To be honest, I can't get anything to work on my system.

>>527 Allegience is realy one of the more better ideas of gaming history which was not well "played".

>>531 This does not mean another such game will not appear someday..



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Quit throwing your garbage into our dimension!

>>531 Thees dues nut meun unuzeer sooch geme-a veell nut eppeer sumedey.. Bork Bork Bork!



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Qooeet throoeeng yuoor gerbege-a intu oooor deemensiun!

>>274
See this is EXACTLY what I mean when I say you haven't done one lick of research. YOU CAN PACKAGE PYTHON CODE INTO A STANDALONE EXE. We used to do it all the time at my old company when we packaged our tools for external studios. The tool is called - wait for it - py2exe.

Second of all, are you really under the impression that you can package this game into one executable? Where are you gonna put all the media? You're gonna distribute this as a giant 3 gig EXE file? Are you on crack?

If you want to do that, why isn't the EXE file just an installer, like, hey, EVERY GODDAMN GAME IN EXISTENCE? Have you ever installed a video game? Even open source games, they all have installers.

So if you're sending down a package of media files anyway, what's one extra file python.dll in the package?

Seriously, your "no DLLs" rule is the most asinine language decision criteria I have *ever* seen *anyone* make. No halfway competent engineer would ever consider that when making a language decision. You're just incompetent.

I realize that was a bit harsh, but you have to understand that we came here with the intention of helping and we're feeling nothing but frustration in return. I don't understand how you plan to get contributors with these attitudes. It's one thing to ask questions; it's quite another to be in charge and boss people around when you don't really have much of an idea what you're talking about.

Hey guys, give me a break; at least I'm not the one borkbork-ing his posts...

>>535
As the one who is borkborking his posts, I have to say: You are an idiot if you think you can work with FrozenVoid! I mean seriously, what are you thinking?

>>534 No the main file is standalone. Amount of dlls can vary as long as they remain in same directory as game.exe.
The rule is no VMs/Runtime/Interpreters. Python is an interpreter.
Packaging the interpreter with bytecode/scripts is not OK and its not a valid executable.
How many times i have to explain it?

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It doesn't matter how you feel inside, you know. It's what shows up on the surface that counts.

>>534 Nu zee meeen feele-a is stundelune-a. Bork Bork Bork! Emuoont ooff dlls cun fery es lung es zeey remeeen in seme-a durectury es geme-a.ixe-a. Bork Bork Bork!
Zee roole-a is nu FMs/Roonteeme-a/Interpreters. Bork Bork Bork! Pythun is un interpreter. Bork Bork Bork!
Peckegeeng zee interpreter veet bytecude-a/screepts is nut OoK und its nut a feleed ixecooteble-a. Bork Bork Bork!
Hoo muny teemes i hefe-a tu ixpleeen it? Bork Bork Bork!

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It duesn't metter hoo yuoo feel inseede-a, yuoo knoo. Bork Bork Bork! It's vhet shoos up oon zee soorffece-a thet cuoonts.

>>534
FV would disqualify python because it's not compiled to native code, and py2exe because it's actually a wrapper for python + .pyc.
He disqualified more worthy languages which compile to native code, just because the generated code isn't packaged in an executable, but in a pseudo-object file(containg native code) + a small(90KB) loader/memory mapper executable (and you can pack both the "pseudo-object file" and loader in one executable).
MSVC++ and GCC are also disqualified by him, because they have "runtimes".

He doesn't understand that neither has any speed cost, or inconvenience to the user(unless done wrong).

>>537
The rule is no VMs/Runtime/Interpreters. Python is an interpreter.
WHY is this the rule?

Also, by the time you get *anywhere* on this project, this rule will no longer apply to Python because Google is building an LLVM JIT compiler for it (I mentioned it before; see 'unladen swallow').

Seriously. WHY no interpreted languages?

>>536
I don't think anybody is seriously thinking that, unless they HBT. We're just here for the humor and being curious how will his ``project'' evolve.

>>540
JIT is disqualified under his rules as well. Not even statically compiled, but requiring a small garbage collection system, or small loader is allowed, even if it has no real speed penalty.

>>539 GCC isn' disqualified. It produces valid standalone executables.
You think of Cygwin and Cygwin1.dll probably(and they can be linked statically, so this isn't a problem).



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I turned my thoughts to a still more novel mode..to compose pictures on canvas similar to representations on the stage...my picture is my stage,and men and women my players exhibited in a 'dumb' show.

>>539 GCC isn' deesqooeliffied. Bork Bork Bork! It prudooces feleed stundelune-a ixecootebles. Bork Bork Bork!
Yuoo theenk ooff Cygveen und Cygveen1.dll prubebly(und zeey cun be-a leenked steteecelly, su thees isn't a prublem). Bork Bork Bork!



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I toorned my thuooghts tu a steell mure-a nufel mude-a..tu cumpuse-a peectoores oon cunfes seemiler tu representeshuns oon zee stege-a...my peectoore-a is my stege-a,und mee und vumee my pleyers ixheebited in a 'doomb' shoo.

Where is assembler? Table must include assembler.

Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points
#3 Lisp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Points(disqualified - no valid compilers)
#4 C           5          6     10      9      3      :33 Points
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Points (disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#7 Python  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#8 APL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#9 Forth   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Points
#10SMTalk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#11 ASM   5        0        20      2       0      :27 points


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He often argued that human intelligence was more trouble than it was worth. It was more destructive than creative, more confusing than revealing, more discouraging than satisfying, more spiteful than charitable.

Lungooege-a    Syntex Iese-a Speed Leebs Boogs Tutel
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme-a 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Pueents
#2 Heskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Pueents
#3 Leesp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Pueents(deesqooeliffied - nu feleed cumpeelers)
#4 C           5          6     10      9      3      :33 Pueents
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Pueents
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Pueents (deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#7 Pythun  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#8 EPL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#9 Furt   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Pueents
#10SMTelk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#11 ESM   5        0        20      2       0      :27 pueents


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He-a oofftee ergooed thet hoomun intelleegence-a ves mure-a truooble-a thun it ves vurt. Bork Bork Bork! It ves mure-a destroocteefe-a thun creeteefe-a, mure-a cunffooseeng thun refeeleeng, mure-a deescuooreging thun seteesffying, mure-a speeteffool thun chereeteble-a.

>>545
How about:

x86 Assembly -

Syntax - 5
Easy to learn, but it would take a lot of time to produce anything that would take a few lines in a high level language.

Ease - 3
Easy to use, but unless macro facilities of the assembler are abused, it would take extended periods of time to produce code which would take seconds/minutes to write in a higher level language.

Speed -
10, and remove 2-3 points from all languages, or give it 12-13 points.

Libs
You can reuse any C library or OS API.
Small User written libs: 3
Anything C written or OS APIs : 10

Bugs
While it's possible to write bug-free assembly code, it's prone to all the bugs C is prone to and many more. 2

>>548
10, and remove 2-3 points from all languages, or give it 12-13 points.

Nah, nobody can write a sizeable program in assembly without it ending up slower than an equivalent program in a high-level language. You'd end up repeating work and using bad large-scale algorithms just because you had no idea what your program was doing overall. So just give it a highish number and leave the rest as-is.

>>548
Syntax:5 no change. Pretty average and straightforward batch execution.
Ease:3, assembler is hardest language long-term and short-term despite the relatively easy syntax.
anything takes longer and more complex paths when using asm. Reinventing the wheel in C is straightforward, in Asm
you have to mine the metals, forge them into a wheel shape and employ lots of manual labor. Ease remains at 0.
Speed:20, because anything can be optimized without limits of a language(sometimes up to 30-50 times faster then C): even assembler itself can be peppered with hexcodes for opcodes which don't get translated by the program. Speed is above any language because :they can be replicated in asm and they execute code which is equivalent to assembler. Speed remains the same.
 Libs: Assembler libraries are practically non-existent and require specific assemblers.
I however will change the value to reflect you can use any library from C or any language/interface.12.
Bugs:Should be 0. Its the hardest language to debug and can contain as many bugs as all languages combined.

Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points
#3 Lisp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Points(disqualified - no valid compilers)
#4 C           5          6     10      9      3      :33 Points
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Points (disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#7 Python  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#8 APL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#9 Forth   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Points
#10SMTalk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#11 ASM   5        0        20      12       0      :37 points


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Why do you insist that the human genetic code is "sacred" or "taboo"? It is a chemical process and nothing more. For that matter -we- are chemical processes and nothing more. If you deny yourself a useful tool simply because it reminds you uncomfortably of your mortality, you have uselessly and pointlessly crippled yourself.

>>548
Syntex:5 nu chunge-a. Bork Bork Bork! Pretty eferege-a und streeeghtffurverd betch ixecooshun. Bork Bork Bork!
Iese-a:3, essembler is herdest lungooege-a lung-term und shurt-term despeete-a zee releteefely iesy syntex. Bork Bork Bork!
unytheeng tekes lunger und mure-a cumplex peths vhee useeng esm. Bork Bork Bork! Reeenfenting zee vheel in C is streeeghtffurverd, in Esm
yuoo hefe-a tu meene-a zee metels, furge-a zeem intu a vheel shepe-a und impluy luts ooff munooel lebur. Bork Bork Bork! Iese-a remeeens et 0. Bork Bork Bork!
Speed:20, becoose-a unytheeng cun be-a oopteemized veethuoot leemits ooff a lungooege-a(sumeteemes up tu 30-50 teemes fester zeen C): ifee essembler itselff cun be-a peppered veet hexcudes fur oopcudes vheech dun't get trunsleted by zee prugrem. Bork Bork Bork! Speed is ebufe-a uny lungooege-a becoose-a :zeey cun be-a repleeceted in esm und zeey ixecoote-a cude-a vheech is iqooeefelent tu essembler. Bork Bork Bork! Speed remeeens zee seme-a. Bork Bork Bork!
 Leebs: Essembler leebreries ere-a precteecelly nun-ixeestent und reqooure-a speceeffic essemblers. Bork Bork Bork!
I hooefer veell chunge-a zee felooe-a tu refflect yuoo cun use-a uny leebrery frum C oor uny lungooege-a/interffece-a.12. Bork Bork Bork!
Boogs:Shuoold be-a 0. Bork Bork Bork! Its zee herdest lungooege-a tu deboog und cun cunteeen es muny boogs es ell lungooeges cumbeened. Bork Bork Bork!

Lungooege-a    Syntex Iese-a Speed Leebs Boogs Tutel
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme-a 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Pueents
#2 Heskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Pueents
#3 Leesp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Pueents(deesqooeliffied - nu feleed cumpeelers)
#4 C           5          6     10      9      3      :33 Pueents
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Pueents
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Pueents (deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#7 Pythun  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#8 EPL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#9 Furt   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Pueents
#10SMTelk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#11 ESM   5        0        20      12       0      :37 pueents


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Vhy du yuoo inseest thet zee hoomun geneteec cude-a is "secred" oor "tebuu"? Bork Bork Bork! It is a chemeecel prucess und nutheeng mure-a. Bork Bork Bork! Fur thet metter -ve-a- ere-a chemeecel prucesses und nutheeng mure-a. Bork Bork Bork! Iff yuoo deny yuoorselff a useffool tuul seemply becoose-a it remeends yuoo uncumffurtebly ooff yuoor murteleety, yuoo hefe-a uselessly und pueentlessly creeppled yuoorselff.

i've found out GHC uses a runtime system:
anything programmed with haskell, like test.exe(compiles to ~700kb for hello word)
will give the options of the runtime when run with "test.exe +RTS -o", thus exposing the runtime.
Haskell is now disqualified.
Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#3 Lisp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Points(disqualified - no valid compilers)
#4 C           5          6     10      9      3      :33 Points
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Points (disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#7 Python  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#8 APL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#9 Forth   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Points
#10SMTalk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#11 ASM   5        0        20      12       0      :37 points

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If there is no struggle, there is no progress.

i'fe-a fuoond oooot GHC uses a roonteeme-a system:
unytheeng prugremmed veet heskell, leeke-a test.ixe-a(cumpeeles tu ~700kb fur hellu vurd)
veell geefe-a zee oopshuns ooff zee roonteeme-a vhee roon veet "test.ixe-a +RTS -oo", thoos ixpuseeng zee roonteeme-a. Bork Bork Bork!
Heskell is noo deesqooeliffied. Bork Bork Bork!
Lungooege-a    Syntex Iese-a Speed Leebs Boogs Tutel
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme-a 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Pueents
#2 Heskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#3 Leesp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Pueents(deesqooeliffied - nu feleed cumpeelers)
#4 C           5          6     10      9      3      :33 Pueents
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Pueents
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Pueents (deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#7 Pythun  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#8 EPL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#9 Furt   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Pueents
#10SMTelk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#11 ESM   5        0        20      12       0      :37 pueents

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Iff zeere-a is nu strooggle-a, zeere-a is nu prugress.

>>550
Ease:3, assembler is hardest language long-term and short-term despite the relatively easy syntax.
I'll take x86 assembly anyday over brainfuck or similar.

>>552
scheme, c, and c++, and forth use runtime systems, too. i guess you're down to just assembly.

>>554
Brainf. is esoteric language and isn't used for development of software.
Code on brainfuck is much larger then equivalent asm code and cannot use anything beyond VM's 8 commands.


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If soldiers were to begin to think, not one of them would remain in the army.

>>554
Breeenff. Bork Bork Bork! is isutereec lungooege-a und isn't used fur defelupment ooff sufftvere-a. Bork Bork Bork!
Cude-a oon breeenffoock is mooch lerger zeen iqooeefelent esm cude-a und cunnut use-a unytheeng beyund FM's 8 cummunds. Bork Bork Bork!


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Iff suldeeers vere-a tu begeen tu theenk, nut oone-a ooff zeem vuoold remeeen in zee ermy.

>>554 I cant stop to think of my ex gf if you always "Bork Bork Bork" you get me depressed if you go on damn.

>>555 I am convinced asm would be a good choice provided:
1.an easy interface to OpenGL drivers.
2.a platform-agnostic set of code which can be ported between Linux and XP with minimum changes.
3.an assembler which has good macro support.
 
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Knowledge or Power are not Wisdom

>>555 I em cunfeenced esm vuoold be-a a guud chueece-a prufeeded:
1.un iesy interffece-a tu OopenGL dreefers. Bork Bork Bork!
2.a pletffurm-egnusteec set ooff cude-a vheech cun be-a purted betveee Leenoox und XP veet meenimoom chunges. Bork Bork Bork!
3.un essembler vheech hes guud mecru sooppurt. Bork Bork Bork!
 
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Knooledge-a oor Pooer ere-a nut Veesdum