Astral Projection and String Theory

So, I was reading a bit about Astral Projection, and the possibility of it not being entirely in one's head.
Does anyone know enough about this and String Theory to comment on whether recent discoveries/theories could suggest that there's something in AP afterall?

With Astral Projection, we're talking shifting the vibration of subtle energy bodies to work on other planes. Of course, the world that we experience is one that happens to be vibrating at a similar level as us, so the possibilities of other 'dimensions' existing in the same plane may be likely.

We currently have cameras that can take pictures of one's aura (understood to be electromagnetic vibration?) and it's said that when people undergo AP, they tend to get stuck to things like pylons and powerstations.

When you look closely at the theory of it, it doesn't seem too batshit insane. There are loads of forums with thousands of people sharing their experiences doing this... but maybe they're all just fucking nuts.

So, with what we know about String Theory, is AP definately head-games?

AP is bullshit.

I was hoping for a little more insight than that...
So are the thousands of APers influenced into believing they're experiencing this stuff?

Yes. New age beliefs such as AP are analogus to religion; they have no basis in reality. They fill the spiritual voids of people who lack critical thinking skills and knowledge of the scientific method.

-- press space for more --

String theory is bullshit.

>>5
Maybe.

 >>1
As mentioned before, AP is pseudo-religious bullshit. Little AOLing fuckers believe in it, you shouldn't. Pretty much everything you mentioned on there being a link between AP and string theory reeks of complete lack of understanding of even the basics of string theory, and the words used to describe astral projection are crap and sound like something produced by a 12 year old who watched the science channel for 20 minutes and thinks he's Albert fucking Einstein.

>>1
When you look closely at the theory of it, it doesn't seem too batshit insane.

needs more critical thinking skills

The closest any of you come to "looking closely" into any of the string theories will be drooling at the equations and understanding exactly nil, so quit the pretentious shit.

>>8
Possibly, but that's most likely the case with you as well.
Nice try, though.

AP works. I experienced it few times.

PSEEEEUUUUUUDDDDDODOOOOOO!

>>10

what exactly did you experience? And were you on DXM?

>>12
He likes it up the ass, but is still a closet fag and "don quixote's" his "experiences" for Astral Projection and a malaise of other "unprovable" phenomena.

Hey I fucked my sister. I projected my astral into her plane.

>>12
Few times it was like OOBE (Out Of Body Experience) but i noticed few weird things like thick powerfield around electrical cords and i had funny floating feeling. Once i tried to switch on the lights and my hand passed thru the wall! Then i woke up from fear mixed with excitement!

Few times i had more astral and less OOBE experiences. Dream were more vivid, all senses were very clear and you actually know there was something more than just a dream after you wake up. Interesting and really nice experience. One thing which is very good is you dont feel any worries or fears/chasing which are occuring in normal dreams. You feel very happy and calm inside.

Of course 99% of you wont believe me, but i really dont care. If you are interested in thit topic please google for 'astral projection' and 'lucid dreaming'. And no i never took any drugs to achieve this. Drugs are for losers. :)

I don't doubt that these things are experienced, but there needs to be some kind of proof if anyone's to believe that the entire thing isn't imagined. People disregard it as new age faggotry before actually thinking about what it could be or bothering to test it. Surely just having someone write a number in a closed box in your room for you to look at while you are "APing" would be a start.
Besides, even if it is entirely imagined, it sounds like kickass fun, and I wouldn't mind learning how to do it.

Besides, even if it is entirely imagined, it sounds like kickass fun, and I wouldn't mind learning how to do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen

Ahahahaha pot smoking hippies and shamans pretending that their drugged brains have supernatural qualities and that they are not worthless piles of shite

>>18
Game, set and match

You guys are very fucking young. "Drugs are for losers" LOL, yeah ok kids. Have fun with your XBOX360's you sad naive faggots.

"wwmmeeehhhh....i need proof of astral projection, coz i'm a giant queer"

the only proof there is...is if you TRY IT YOURSELF. If you've never tried it...with or without drugs THEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. STOP PRETENDING YOU FAGS.

>>20
That's not a very compelling argument. You have lost this internet fight, now gtfo.

the only proof there is...is if you TRY IT YOURSELF.

Proof of what? That perception doesn't necessarily have to match reality?

>>20 proves that drugs are for losers.

>>20 proves he not only uses drugs to get high and pull astral projection out of his ass, but posts under the effects of them. Therefore "he loses" is an understatement.

>>21
>>22
>>23
>>24

FAIL

>>21

If you haven't tried drugs: You don't know what they're like.
If you haven't tried AP: Then you don't know what it's like.

This translates out to you having zero knowledge on the subject(s). All of your arguments are based on assumptions. Notice that you completely skirted the issue of your lack of experience or knowledge in these matters and instead focused on- what? My Drug use (if any)?

You do understand that you don't win an argument by shouting: "YOU LOSE!" like at the end of street fighter 2, right? I mean, you guys do realize that like isn't a video game, right? You DO know that none of you are RYO nor GUILE, right? Guys.....?

>>26
If you have tried drugs: You don't know what brains are like.
If you haven't tried AP: Then you don't know what sanity is like.

This translates out to you having zero knowledge on the subject(s). All of your arguments are based on assumptions. Notice that you completely skirted the issue of your lack of experience or knowledge in these matters and instead focused on- what? Your heavy drug use?

You do understand that you don't win an argument by shouting: "YOU LOSE!" like at the end of street fighter 2, right? I mean, you guys do realize that like isn't a video game, right? You DO know that none of you are RYO nor GUILE, right? Guys.....?

>>27

The assumption that because I've tried drugs "I don't know what brains are like" stems from your lack of experience with any drugs.

The assumption that because I've tried AP (I haven't, by the way) "I don't know what sanity is like." Stems from...what's this? YOUR LACK OF EXPERIENCE WITH AP.

Point being: You are talking shit about something you have not experienced. Your opinions are baseless. I could understand if this was a "murder is bad" argument. But it's something that you could easily research yourself so that you wouldn't look like some jackass child who just discovered masturbation and internets. Good luck with life.

Point being: You are talking shit about something you have not experienced. Your opinions are baseless. I could understand if this was a "murder is bad" argument. But it's something that you could easily research yourself so that you wouldn't look like some jackass child who just discovered masturbation and internets. Good luck with life.

Oh wow, that is so awesome. See how halfway through the paragraph he defeats his own argument? And then, realising this, simply turns it into an ad hominem. Stream-of-consciousness writing at its best.

>>25
To drugged out to retort properly.

>>29

Question: Do you know anything about AP or drug use from personal experience? If you don't: Then you don't know what you're talking about. This is a common attack in debate. Any means used to not address this or downplay the issue is a dodge. This is merely yet another hypocritical statement in a looooong tradition of hypocritical statements you've made on this board. Your homosmuggery is a 4-chan trademark.

>>30
ad hominem = fail

YOU LOSE!

I've never stuck a fork into an electrical outlet either, but I'm pretty sure it'd be unwise.  Does this mean I don't know what I'm talking about?

>>31
Awww, now that piece of irony is just a bit too beautiful, making your trolling obvious. Too bad, because you could've dragged this on for much longer.

>>33

Making the attempt to study or experience drugs and/or astral projection (before forming an opinion) is not the same as sticking a fork into an electrical outlet. However, this does explain your baseless dead-end posts that degenerate into ad-hominem attacks once your ignorance has been uncovered. This is the way you seem to approach learning anything. Nice try and again: Good luck in life.

>>34

Why don't you stop dodging and just answer the question? Is that so hard?

Do you know anything about AP or drug use from personal experience?

>>35
fails for assuming I'm the same Anonymous who made the statements about drugs.  I'm just asking him to explain his position.

>>36
Sure, I know from personal experience that without mind altering drugs, I don't see funky colors and things. I can understand that if you get certain chemicals in your blood, or have some physical defect in the wiring of your brain, that that might cause your brain to malfunction, and see colors where there shouldn't be any.

Now, AP goes on to attach meaning to those colors, and relate internal malfunction to real, existing 'fields' and crazy non-scientific gibberish. This is where you lose me...

AP is a baseless and harmless fantasy, most of whose adherents are ignorant american teens with way too much time and money on their hands.

>>37

The whole point of the anonymous system is that it doesn't matter if a different whomever said what before. If you want to be treated as an individual and not as an idea. Then use a name.

>>38

Clearly you don't know what Astral Projection is. "Funky colors"? Yeah, ok, you just keep telling yourself that's what it is and the rest of us will keep nodding/smiling/humoring you because obviously you haven't experienced AP or even attempted study of AP.

There is nothing to study. It's bullshit.

>>42

It's bullshit, because you haven't studied it. It baffles me how you can continue to argue this. You must be very, very young and immature. Or very, very stupid.

Please show us any article about AP in a respectable peer-reviewed scientific journal. There is nothing to study. You grasp at straws.

>>44

"There is nothing to study."

Prove it.

"Negative"

"Prove it."

You can't prove a negative like that.

>>46

Just like you can't prove that there isn't a God.
Someone brings up AP saying it's real because they done it.
Then you come along and say it's bullshit.
Sorry, but...the burden of proof is on you this time around.
When someone creates an "AP doesn't exist" thread and someone says "yes it does" the burden of proof will be on them. 

So, yeah, you've got 24 hours to disprove it or faggotry will take ahold. Please prove through personal experience or peer study saying that AP, multiple-dimensions and the like are 100% absolutely false.

Thank you. 

Goddamnit. Reading a textbook on the philosophy of science should be a requirement before being allowed to post on this board.

Sorry, but...the burden of proof is on you this time around.
When someone creates an "AP doesn't exist" thread and someone says "yes it does" the burden of proof will be on them.

Ahahaha, what the hell?

>>48
Agreed.

>>48

Seriously. Where is the scientific study saying that AP "is bullshit"? I mean, if it's truly some screw ball conception...you guys should have no trouble disproving it.

>>51
There is no proof to disprove.

Just like there is no proof of a tea pot flying around pluto to disprove.

scientist: AP is made of bullshit and fail.

APer: no it's not... prove it!

scientist: i don't have to prove that it doesn't exist, just like god and cosmic teapots.

APer: but anyone can do it... why not try it before commenting on something you don't have a clue about?

scientist: because it's obviously just bullshit... you lack critical thinking. And you fail.

APer: all I'm saying it TRY IT before writing it off. Surely completely ignoring the fact that you could actually do that lacks critical thinking...

scientist: but it's bullshit... y'know, drugs and tree hugging hippy shit.

APer: but it seems to tie in with science a considerable amount. If you just tried it and thought about what it could be, maybe you could learn a whole lot about the universe... I mean, you already know that there's only so much we can experience using our physical bodies alone.

scientist: but i don't want to try it because it's bullshit.

APer: /sigh

APer: all I'm saying it TRY IT before writing it off. Surely completely ignoring the fact that you could actually do that lacks critical thinking...

scientist: but it's bullshit... y'know, drugs and tree hugging hippy shit.

APer: but it seems to tie in with science a considerable amount. If you just tried it and thought about what it could be, maybe you could learn a whole lot about the universe... I mean, you already know that there's only so much we can experience using our physical bodies alone.

scientist: but i don't want to try it because it's bullshit.

APer: /sigh

1.5x post... apologies.

lol, "scientist" more like "kid who hasn't graduated high school." and to that I don't sigh: I laugh.

secondly, you're operating on assumptions. you assume it's bullshit without a study being done. you don't know that god doesn't exist, you don't know AP isn't real. you haven't performed the methodology to arrive to a conclusion one way or another. that's why you automatically assume that I am "an APer". I'm not. but i'm not immature/arrogant enough and soooo desperate to percieve myself as correct that i'd sit here and say something like: ap doesn't exist, god doesn't exist.

the fact here is that you don't know - and if you don't know, then you shut the fuck up and stop pushing your bullshit as fact. you make yourself no different from the people who say that intelligent design is valid theory. you are just as fanatical.

I say we conduct a test.  Without drugs.  Let me know your results after continued studying/practicing.

[...] ap doesn't exist, god doesn't exist.

Truth.

>>58

Subjective Truth is not absolute truth.

>>59
Knowledge about absolute truths of reality is impossible anyway. It's all about faith, and I have faith in science, because its methodologies have proved most useful thus far.

>>60

funny that you don't apply that same methodology here.

>>47
>>51
>>53
>>56
>>61

You sound like either a naive 12 year old or a troll.

If the former, please read this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0192802836

>>62

no thanks. how about you show us a study that says AP isn't real instead?

>>62

You sound like either a naive 12 year old or a troll.

If the former, please read this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0192802836

>>64

no thanks. how about you show us a study that says AP isn't real instead?

Astral Projection.

SCIIIIEEEEEENNNNNCNCCCCCE!

Astral Projection.

SCIIIIEEEEEENNNNNNCCCCCE!

>>65

You sound like either a naive 12 year old or a troll.

If the former, please read this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0192802836

Guess why creationists never say "I've never looked through a telescope or looked at rocks, so why should I believe that the universe is more than 10000 years old?" because they are not drugged out of their minds enough to think that such a level of ignorance doesn't make you look like a crazy fuck. They are ignorant, but not to the point where they are completely bat shit fucking loco.

So why are you scientists so terrified of taking drugs and going on an AP trip?

Actually this is a blatant lie and I'm trolling, having hallucinations of the room you've just been in and being semi-awake and listenning to people move around and talk to you isn't enough evidence to suggest astral projection is occurring. Working from the facts up astral projection has no basis. Working from the imagination and hand picking "facts" to suite what a person wants to believe and you can come up with anything. You can claim that Mo Mowlam is an unnattractive slut and horrible to children and other people if you only showed her at her worst, even though she risked her life in the face of terrorism to reach peace agreements in northern Ireland with the IRA. That doesn't mean she is mean and horrible.

You are all nazi hitlers.

According to Godwin's law this thread has ended. Go your seperate ways.

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Godwin%27s_Law

>>68
no thanks. how about you show us a study that says AP isn't real instead?

>>69
i'm not arguing for AP. that's why all that shit you said? simply doesn't apply to me. the point I'm trying to make is that these assholes can't wave their inexperience and ignorance around as science. if this was some science nerd who did acid and had an explaination...then fine. but saying "AP is bullshit" when you haven't tried it, have no studies disproving it (drugs or no drugs) ...simply doesn't cut if you have a functioning brain that is fueled by reason and logic.

something is very wrong when you start turning science into religious dogma. "it's bullshit" is the response I got from a guy when I asked him about evolution. it's NOT the response you get from someone claiming to be scientific

It's bullshit, until you show otherwise. (Which is unlikely, seeing as how it's bullshit.)

That's how science works. Can you show that there weren't giant ethereal elephants on the dark side of the moon at some point? You can't. Similarly I can't show that AP is bullshit, but in the absence of any positive evidence that is the default assumption which science makes.

It's all explained in that book I keep linking you. Please read it.

Those who claim that astral projection is real are making the positive existential claim and the burden of proof is upon them.

If I may paraphrase Nietszche, subjective experience, faith, and personal belief are meaningless, as an afternoon of talking with the patients in any mental ward will demonstrate.

From a string theory textbook: http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/6844/superstringslol3ob.png

if you think this has anything to with some BS throught up by a few teens on acids living in a post-scarcity society then you're  either one of them or just a general fucking idiot.

>>71
>>72

Again: Opinion, not fact. "Assumption" not fact. "Assumption" not personal experience that would lead you assumption. You can continue to cry "bullshit" into the night and attempt to link me to any old shitty book(I'm not clicking of your condescending fucking link- ever. Fuck off.) But the only fact here is: You don't know. This clearly shown in your constant reference to "ethereal elephants" and "funky colors" and shit. What the fuck does all that shit have to do with Astral Projection? It's begs the question of whether or not you even know what Astral Projection even *is*.

The answer seems to be "No."

You people sure are easily trolled.

Even if this guy is for real, he clearly doesn't want to understand science. Just let him live in his little dreamworld, he's not hurting anyone with it.

>>74
fails for not grasping either the scientific method or basic ontology.

>>69
This thread has ended, everyone GTFO

God damn it you fucking retards need to learn science.  This is why the United States is trying to teach creationism in schools.  This is why we didn't sign the Kyoto treaty.  No one is learning how to fucking critically think any more.

>>78

No it's the exact opposite. People are trying to teach stupid fucking creationism in school because so called "scientist" that ignore methodlogy and treat their own science like some absurd unrefutable religion. This is the VERY REASON why creationist even *think* that they can be on the level of science.

>>79
I blame it all on social sciences, myself.

Liberal 'science' people are fucking retards. They say stuff like science being a religion because scientists are so devolted to finding the truth.

>>81
Here we go again with this Liberal/Conservative meme nonsense. Jesus Fuck Shit Christ, are you retarded? Everytime *you* (yes, I know it's *you*, you're a repeat of offender of this bullshit.) pull this sanctamonious crap I just want to put my fucking elbow through the computer screen.

"Liberal science people"? Have you become so desperate to appear right in every. single. last. thread. that you've actually begun making up words and phrases? Neverminding the fact, that you *completely* misunderstand what was said.

Some people use science like a religion, because they themselves DO NOT apply the methodology of science to their lives. When confronted with *any* of life's unanswerables they scream SCCCCCCCCIIIIIIIIEEEEEEENNNNNNCCCCCCEEEEEEE and through a process of faggotry think somehow that means they are AUTOMATIC searching for the truth. You're searching for nothing but an easy way out of the argument.

^^^^^^^How you can confuse this with some communist liberal hackey message is beyond hetrosexual comprehension and I must only concluse that you are a faggot.

AND Guess what asshole? Every time you dodge the issues and resort to calling someone a liberal or a conservative - that fanaticsm. Just like a Christian will sit there and say some convoluted shit about heathens or athetists. How do you not see this?

IT MUST BE ALL THOSE COCKS FIGHTING FOR TERRORITY ON YOUR FACE.

p.S

"DEVOLTED ISN'T A WORD"

COME HERE ONCE YOU'RE THE FUCKING DRINKING AGE

>>82
Which people? I mean, there probably are some, but none come to mind atm. None with an actual education in one of the natural sciences anyway. Examples pls.

Btw I think YHBT completely.

Bbtw how do I make my text bold/italic/underlined

There's some of them in this same thread. They know who they are. They're the ones that will start appling liberal vs conservative at the drop of a fucking hat.

and yeah, I did get trolled. badly

[ i ] [ / i ]

bold, italic with brackets into set of those other things in HTML...you know what I mean

oh. bbcode. how lame.

lol, i meant "liberal arts". got >>82 worked up for nothing.

HOW DO I GRASPED ONTOLOGY

>>86

you didn't mean that. unless you get sciences and arts mixed up alot. in that case- it pretty much explain that entire asinine statement

>>69
This thread is dead, everyone GTFO.

>>89
gb2/vip/ or something

NO U

92GET

>>90
If Anonymous doesn't come to /vip, /vip comes to Anonymous

Truth isn't necessarily logical truth or philosophical truth. If, for example, a belief that you astrally project rather than have a lucid dream enables you to change your personality for the better, where if you believe it is just a dream you cannot, then which is the truth?

One man’s “magic” is another man’s engineering. “Supernatural” is a null word.
-Robert A. Heinlein

 I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind - that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the ethical side have been more than overcome by the damage it has done to clear and honest thinking.
     I believe that no discovery of fact, however trivial, can be wholly useless to the race, and that no trumpeting of falsehood, however virtuous in intent, can be anything but vicious.
     I believe that all government is evil, in that all government must necessarily make war upon liberty...
     I believe that the evidence for immortality is no better than the evidence of witches, and deserves no more respect.
     I believe in the complete freedom of thought and speech...
     I believe in the capacity of man to conquer his world, and to find out what it is made of, and how it is run.
     I believe in the reality of progress.
     I - But the whole thing, after all, may be put very simply. I believe that it is better to tell the truth than to lie. I believe that it is better to be free than to be a slave. And I believe that it is better to know than be ignorant.
-H. L. Mencken

you're quoting delusional, drug-addled high-school drop-outs who wouldn't know science if you it them on the head with a linear accelerator. good work anonymous

AP has nothing to do with religion, this why you faggards fail in this debate. Look it up, try and explain it or unexplain it...but don't try to come off like you know what you're talking about. Some of us can see through your ignorance.

who said anything about religion?

it [AP] is getting compared to it in here, when it shouldn't

YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND!!! YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN HOW IT WORKS!!! IT'S NOT UP TO US TO EXPLAIN WHY IT DOESN'T WORK!!! WELCOME TO SCIENCE!!!

also, 100get.

Astral Projection
Why is this shit in /sci(ence)? Stupid crackpots...

>>100
Truth

Why don't you stop debating about it and try it out already?

>>100

wrong. when you say: "it's bullshit", you have to qualify that statement. no one came on here and said AP is for everyone and it definately works- if you're asserting that it's bullshit, then you either prove it or get the fuck out of the thread. it isn't that hard.

>>104

IT'S AUTOMATICALLY BULLSHIT UNLESS SOMETIME EXPLAINS HOW IT WORKS!!! WE DON'T PROVE NEGATIVES!!! WELCOME TO SCIENCE!!!

SOMEONE*

>>105
actually "we" do prove negatives and that's precisely what you do seem to get. welcome to science. :)

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Just read up on transcendental meditation and do it already.

anecdotal (testimonial) evidence

Testimonials and vivid anecdotes are one of the most popular and convincing forms of evidence presented for beliefs in the supernatural, paranormal, and pseudoscientific. Nevertheless, testimonials and anecdotes in such matters are of little value in establishing the probability of the claims they are put forth to support. Sincere and vivid accounts of one’s encounter with an angel or the Virgin Mary, an alien, a ghost, a Bigfoot, a child claiming to have lived before, purple auras around dying patients, a miraculous dowser, a levitating guru, or a psychic surgeon are of little value in establishing the reasonableness of believing in such matters.

Anecdotes are unreliable for various reasons. Stories are prone to contamination by beliefs, later experiences, feedback, selective attention to details, and so on. Most stories get distorted in the telling and the retelling. Events get exaggerated. Time sequences get confused. Details get muddled. Memories are imperfect and selective; they are often filled in after the fact. People misinterpret their experiences. Experiences are conditioned by biases, memories, and beliefs, so people's perceptions might not be accurate. Most people aren't expecting to be deceived, so they may not be aware of deceptions that others might engage in. Some people make up stories. Some stories are delusions. Sometimes events are inappropriately deemed psychic simply because they seem improbable when they might not be that improbable after all. In short, anecdotes are inherently problematic and are usually impossible to test for accuracy.

Thus, stories of personal experience with paranormal or supernatural events have little scientific value. If others cannot experience the same thing under the same conditions, then there will be no way to verify the experience. If there is no way to test the claim made, then there will be no way to tell if the experience was interpreted correctly. If others can experience the same thing, then it is possible to make a test of the testimonial and determine whether the claim based on it is worthy of belief. As parapsychologist Charles Tart once said after reporting an anecdote of a possibly paranormal event: “Let’s take this into the laboratory, where we can know exactly what conditions were. We don’t have to hear a story told years later and hope that it was accurate.” Dean Radin also noted that anecdotes aren't good proof of the paranormal because memory “is much more fallible than most people think” and eyewitness testimony “is easily distorted”(Radin 1997: 32).

Testimonials regarding paranormal experiences are of little use to science because selective thinking and self-deception must be controlled for in scientific observations. Most psychics and dowsers, for example, do not even realize that they need to do controlled tests of their powers to rule out the possibility that they are deceiving themselves. They are satisfied that their experiences provide them with enough positive feedback to justify the belief in their paranormal abilities. Controlled tests of psychics and dowsers would prove once and for all that they are not being selective in their evidence gathering. It is common for such people to remember their apparent successes and ignore or underplay their failures. Controlled tests can also determine whether other factors such as cheating might be involved.

If such testimonials are scientifically worthless, why are they so popular and why are they so convincing? There are several reasons. Testimonials are often vivid and detailed, making them appear credible. They are often made by enthusiastic people who seem trustworthy and honest, and who lack any reason to deceive us. They are often made by people with some semblance of authority, such as those who hold a Ph.D. in psychology or physics. To some extent, testimonials are believable because people want to believe them. Often, one anticipates with hope some new treatment or instruction. One’s testimonial is given soon after the experience while one’s mood is still elevated from the desire for a positive outcome. The experience and the testimonial it elicits are given more significance than they deserve.

Finally, it should be noted that testimonials are often used in many areas of life, including medical science, and that giving due consideration to such testimonials is considered wise, not foolish. A physician will use the testimonies of his or her patients to draw conclusions about certain medications or procedures. For example, a physician will take anecdotal evidence from a patient about a reaction to a new medication and use that information in deciding to adjust the prescribed dosage or to change the medication. This is quite reasonable. But the physician cannot be selective in listening to testimony, listening only to those claims that fit his or her own prejudices. To do so is to risk harming one’s patients. Nor should the average person be selective when listening to testimonials regarding some paranormal or occult experience.

http://skepdic.com

>>110

that's cool. but that doesn't apply here.

>>111 what are you talking about

>>111
Fucking moron.

>>112
>>113

It doesn't apply here, in this instance. Still doesn't disprove anything. If a response to any of life's unanswerable is: "Science". Then that's just like answering: "God". Unless methodology is involved it is not scientific absolutism IE "actual science"

>>114
I AM GOING TO KICK YOUR ASS

>>115
I AM GOING TO LICK YOUR ASS*

fixed*

>>116
I AM GOING TO LICK YOUR LASS*

fixed*

>>117
I GOING TO L-WHERE IS SARAH CONNOR?*

fixed?*

>>118
I G-A HUGE GAPING VAGINA THE SIZE OF A HALLWAY

>>119
THEY'RE TAKING THE HOBBITS TO ISENGARD

whoa this therad is long , I am going to try this and get back to you

>>115-120
are DQN

The longest thread is the dumbest one and this thread is pretty fucking dumb godamit.

>>122
non-japanese who say "DQN" are weeaboo lamer fags

>>124
NO U

This thread lacks serious first person research.  Just check out some books from a library and try it yourself.  If it works or doesn't work, post your results here.

>>126
This thread lacks serious first person research.  Just check out this dude from behind the library and try some of his wares yourself.  If it works or doesn't work, post your results here.

fix'd

>>127

fix'd?

lol

more liek "fail'd"

what the hell is this thread about

i just read the topic and right there decided not to read a single post

you people are wrong. you sound like my parents. i may be 12 but know wat im sayin. most people believe in OBE cuz they experiened psycic things. like ive had dreams telling the future. then developed  lucid dreams in 2nd grade. and just last year i developed mind reading. so stop bashing me and my other gifted people.

>>129

You didn't miss anything.  Some moron doesn't understand the scientific method and wants scientists to investigate Astral Projection because he thinks it's real.

>>131

LOL

Yeah, that's what happened. Are you sure you understand scientific method? I always thought the idea was to answer the unanswerables. Not downplay the importance or relevance of the unanswerables because they don't fit into your dogmatic "scientific" (SNORT~!) view.

I'm sorry but science isn't a religion. "It's bullshit" or "It's not real" doesn't cut it for anyone that understands the very fundamentals of methodology. It's nice to pretend- but there comes a time to grow the fuck up and start asking questions.

>>132
You can pretend all you want, but in the end it comes down to the fact that "take acid and see cool shit" isn't and never will be a valid hypothesis. There is nothing to prove even if we wanted to.

THIS THREAD IS LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG

fuck science! half of those dinosours are made up by scientist. people dont believe in psychic things cuz they dont want to or havent expierened. or some people are to stupid cuz these sort of gifts take alot of brain power to control it.

>>134
Table-breaking jerk

>>135
Troll

>>133

You can pretend all *you* want, but "there's nothing to prove" never falls out of a scientists mouth. "There's nothing to prove" is what was said by guy that still thinks Dinosaurs were put in the ground by satan to test us. I asked him to "prove it" and he said: "It's a test, there's nothing to prove."

Keep dreaming. "Nothing prove" isn't methodology and it isn't science. Lemme guess, you're the same guy that got trounced in the race thread aren't you? Aren't you seeing a pattern with your ignorance and stupidity here?

People have claimed to have psychic abilities, claimed to be able to do "astral projection," whatever the fuck that meaningless noise may be, for a long time now.

Whenever they are put to empirical test, they are always found lacking.  ALWAYS.

100+ years of scientific research into psi / psionics / whatever you want to call it coming up with absolutely zero results is pretty strong indirect evidence for the null hypothesis.

Those who claim this shit is real bear the burden of proof.  Until they do so, and I ain't holding my breath here, the null hypothesis holds.

>>138

They were never put to an "empirical test". And I'd like to see proof, if you have it. Never the less, psi / psionics and all this  other noise isn't Astral Projection.

"Burden of proof", yeah LOL ok, like you can be convinced. You're a fanatic, buddy. And you make science look REALLY REALLY bad with the "fuck methodology, there's nothing to prove!" attitude.

end of convsersation.

>>139 They were never put to an "empirical test"

U FAIL IT for never having heard of the Rhine Institute, the PEAR studies, or James Randi.

U FAIL IT further for being unaware that those who make the positive existential claim bear the burden of proof.

In conclusion, LURK MOAR

>>140

YAAAAAAAAWN
"End of conversation" means just that.
you get no more opinions
enjoy your fail

you cannot put to the empirical test what exists and happens and is only experienced by one self by fucking definition, trying to do it only hinders and prevents occurance, for this reason, you will forever be stuck where you are for this is where your world of understanding is stuck, and will probably never get past, it's quite alright for those who lay on the other side of the matter for they know they have become better people for it

>>142
"If it is not math, it is opinion."  --Robert A. Heinlein

>>143
But he's a nazi. Can you trust a nazi?

>>142

Yak yak yak yak
you keep saying that there's nothing to prove and that = scientific method

you are wrong.

sorry.

fail less next round

>>145
fails at reading comprehension.  Put down the bong, you've had enough.

>>146

I didn't even read your fucking post. And I'm not holding a bong, BITCH. So shut the fuck up, swat away the numerous cocks fighting for territory on your face and take your fail like a good faggort.

>>147
If you have nothing substantive to contribute, gb2/b/

>>1
Perhaps you should see if the mods will create a metaphysical board.

This thread needs more concrete proof from both parts.

>>150

My concrete proof is that the idiot babbling about Astral Projection has exactly zero evidence.

>>151
Truth was told.

Furthermore, those who make the positive existential claim bear the burden of proof.

Anyone is free to claim anything at all.  But if they cannot prove that it's real, the rest of us are free to ignore them.

>>151
>>152

PROOF OF FAIL
RE-LEARN SCIENTIFIC METHOD PLZ
THX

>>153

That is the scientific method.  The guy making the positive claim needs to present his evidence.  If he doesn't have any, he should devise an experiment to test his claim.  And of course, we're not obligated to carry out his experiment, because we don't care.

Evidence of what, dipshit? you guys need to get the hint: avoiding the "unanswerables" isn't scientific method. if string theory and m theory have a place, then so does astral projection. (lol "PROVE" there's 3 dimensions. I say there's only one dimension and that time and space are only dimensional "symptoms")

I don't understand why you guys keep referring back to acid trips and ESP and all this nonsense. Are you sure you understand what astral projection is?

AP is fun because, while it is pure fantasy, it's still plausible enough for the ignorant sheep among you to believe it. In a way it's a useful to seperate the chaff from the knowledgeable. AP isn't "unanswerable". Indeed, here's the answer: there is nothing to it.

>>156

signed,
 high school faggot bosian

>>155
If you are claiming astral projection is real, prove it.  Show us your evidence.  Show us the experiments you have devised to show the difference between astral projection and a vivid dream.  Show us empirical proof.  If you are making a claim, PROVE IT.

Is that clear enough for you?  Or will I have to come to your home and put on a skit for you with big fuzzy puppets?

>>155

No one is "avoiding" an "unanswerable" here.  Do you really mean to say that Astral Projection is an "unanswerable" question about the universe?  PROTIP: Science does not deal with unanswerables.  Science deals with that which is testable.

What is the difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming? I've experienced lucid dreaming on several occations, but only heard about "astral projection"

if you believe in the possiblity of string theory or m theory, then astral projection shouldn't be much of a stretch.

lol why don't you prove to me that time and space are actual dimensions?

because

string theory: based on algebraic quantum field theory
astral projection: based on teens on acid

a rather large rift, wouldn't you think?

>>162

except one thing:

astral projection isn't based on teens on acid

I'm sure you have a _perception_ of astral projection being related to LSD, but the REALITY is that it isn't.

the moment you stop falling back on the hippie crutch is the moment we can talk about this

WHAT IS ASTRAL PROJECTION?

>>163
what is is based on then? it surely ain't string theory, since this is something i'm more than familiar with.

1: Come up with some crazy theory
2:
3: Claim it is based on fact.

It would be largely based on perception, most significantly the perception you do not posess having only one half of your complete consciousness. AP is a form of a link between the two, there are many link possibilities due to the size of the subconscious and as such, links in different areas will yield vastly different results since they would be getting them from different areas of the subconscious which holds different information and abilities in different areas just like anything else would.

Good luck breaking the wall between the half of you that you do know and the half you don't know though, especially the way the half you know yourself as is and the fact you think you are a complete self already (this is demonstrated by the fact you just blatantly disregard the existance of AP simply because you're too fucking stupid about yourself to possibly understand what it is, had you a better self or a better amount of link between yourselves, it would be rather easy to determine these things, but alas you live like all others in this world and hence are the problem asto why humanity runs stagnant, relying on making babies as evolution. act of which is about the stupidest and biggest self defeating thing anyone can ever do).

Oh, by the way, it is strings that all such things reside in, so they are closely fucking related, but all things exist on string so everything is related, just in varying degrees of due to the nature of string.

sage for your death and you not even realizing it despite being given ample amounts of time to do so, you failure.

>>167
Wait wait wait.. One half of your consciousness? What the fuck are you talking about? How can you know if something is 1/2 of your consciousness? I am an open critic and am not quibbling when I say that I am not going to accept the rest of your little speech, since you haven't even defined what type of subconscious you are talking about. There is also the history of mystical/magical dogma surrounding the subconscious that any person wishing to discuss AP should address. Though this is not necessary with, not everyone is as open as me and they would need some convincing that you are not a quack (and not everyone who is open is as critical as me).

Just say in clear simple terms what evidence there is to suggest AP exists. Answer "What do people who have had what they think is an AP experience believe distinguishes AP from a hallucination?" for instance.

Try again.

not necessary with me**

>>167

PSYCHOACTIVE DRUGS HAVE RUINED YOUR LIFE. ENJOY YOUR MENTAL DISABILITY!

>>168

why don't you tell me in clear simple terms the evidence that time and space are "absolute dimensions". I.E - things that would exist without our perception of their existence. you're sitting there bitching about mystical/magical dogma while perscribing to a dogma of your own.

you fail

>>171

You respond to an honest question attempting to really discuss AP and you have a knee-jerk reaction and say that he's bitching.

That, young Skywalker, is why you fail.

PS: I'm not >>168.

>>172

That's just the thing though, it's not an "honest question". It was an opinionated statement (Astral Projection is for druggies.) The only reason you give it the benefit of the doubt is because you are bias to his view point.

If we can percieve different "dimensions" with string theory/m theory, cognitively. Then there is little evidence to support that we don't percieve those different "dimensions", subconsciously.

Now responding to the above statement with: "The only people who talk about AP have done LSD, are DRUGGIES, are scum." - is a flat out character attack. By virtue of science alone, you should be more open to questioning those "absolute answers" that some scientist claim to have.

This type dogmatic approach to an idea as innocent as astral projection is dangerously close to how the church dealt with those who said the earth was round.

the additional dimensions predicted by the string theories are compactified. there is no way to perceive them.

see? all it took was a two sentence description of AP to disprove it.

>>174

"there is no way to percieve them" isn't methodology, pal. You're basically saying: "But, the world is flat. So there's no proof that it could possibly be round."

Prove that we do not subconsciously percieve different dimensions.

NO SHITHEAD, I'M TELLING YOU THAT SAYING "OOOH STRING THEORIES PROVE AP" ISN'T GOING TO WORK BECAUSE: IN STRING THEORIES THE N-4 DIMENSIONS ARE COMPACTIFIED. IT'S MATHEMATICALLY ("THEORETICALLY") IMPOSSIBLE TO EVEN FIND OUT THAT THEY ARE THERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DID (AND YOU CAN'T!), THOSE DIMENSIONS LOOP ON THEMSELVES AND ARE UTTERLY TINY!

IT APPEARS THAT I AM SURROUNDED BY IGNORANT FOOLS AND TROLLS.

>>176

So tiny that we can't percieve them, even sub consciously?

Like I said: Prove that we do not subconsciously (or even consciously) percieve different dimensions.

Cap locks is the bastion of the intellectually damned.

>>177
Uh, no.  If you're making the claim that it's possible to perceive these dimensions, it's up to YOU to prove it.  If you're making the claim that "astral projection," whatever that may be, is real, it's up to YOU to prove it.

I can claim that giraffes are real, and if you will accept what you see a trip to the zoo as evidence, I can prove it.

Simple, yes?

>>178

Uh, no. If you're the one making the claim that "astral projection" isn't real or it's all about LSD and all this shit. It's up to YOU to qualify that statement with a study or some facts that completely debunk it as a viable theory.

You keep asking me to prove it as if you'll be swayed by proof. Clearly when we're talking about different dimensions and the ability to percieve those dimensions even time and space can be disproven.

One thing we can say for sure is that you have no scientific response to astral project other than "YOU prove it."

You have as much of an answer to astral projection as the pro-astral projection guys.

This is why you keep returning to this thread, repeating the same shit over and over. The only thing I hear when you post is: "I can disprove Astral Projection about as well as you can prove it."

I'm talking about possiblities, you're talking impossiblities.

YOU FUCKING SHITHEAD! COMPACT DIMENSIONS! COMPACT BEING THE KEY FUCKING WORD HERE! HOW DO YOU PEER INTO COMPACTIFIED SPACE? THE ANSWER IS THAT YOU CAN'T! YOU CAN'T! IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER! JESUS FUCKING CHRIST HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT? THEORETICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!!! YOU CAN'T! MUCH LIKE 1+1 CAN'T BE 3, YOU FUCKING MORON!

which isn't to say that AP isn't true -- YOU JUST CAN'T USE STRING THEORIES TO ARGUE THAT IT IS!!! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE IN THE FRAMEWORK OF STRING THEORIES OKAY?!?!

JESUS! FUCKING! CHRIST! EITHER YOU'RE TROLLING OR YOU'RE AN IGNORANT KID WITH SUCH AN OPEN MIND THAT IT FUCKING FLEW RIGHT OUT OF YOUR HEAD!

>>180
MUCH LIKE 1+1 CAN'T BE 3
It can be, if you redefine your symbols or fonts

Ha ha ha ha ha, man, if they were trolling, they were overly successful!

>>181
I wasn't even trolling, I was telling the truth, I just saged because of this poor guy.
Your subconscious can perceive them, it may be all it perceives, though, it is probably because this is all it has to, it is YOUR consciousness which you (i'm talking to the capslock wonder, though according to a previous thread I think he might have left 4chan, I guess I don't even have to continue this post since Anonymous's work (all of us) has already been comleted, but the topic is still good even though the thread isn't) mistakenly believe to be at full, it is at half, if you had your subconscious and your conscious together you would not be so thethered to this plane of existance and more importantly, it's literal plane of will representation. The reason why no one proves it, is that those who work on it work to master, and those who master don't have to deal with retards like you anymore if they so please. Anyone can do this now to a degree, but the ability once your consciounesses unite has the potential to be complete.

Your subconscious cannot perceive anything. It's just a product of logic running on three dimensions.

>>183

FAILS FOR BEING 100% WRONG

>>184
Fails for caring.

>>179
You refuse to answer any questions, therefore your concession of all my points is noted.  Thanks for playing.  As a consolation prize, you win the home version of our game.

In conclusion, U FAIL.  I suggest that you LURK MOAR.

>>186
Ok, astral projection and string theory seperate themselves in your undertanding due to logic and reason, congratulations for giving into the mirror, stare at it ever so glossy eyed as you wonder why they are there to act as so, while never wondering why you cannot see your subconscious, or what you can do to change it. But you are obviously very much content with this world and its societies, one of which you live in, and their line of beliefs found entirely in the first half of the consciousness, the one that perceives the result of the subconscious but not the subconscious itself. Perhaps when you yourself grow tired of the way things are here, and where they are headed, you will ditch petty and weak reason and logic, but you have limited time to do so remember, for under the society of reason and logic, you are destined to die, it is your will to die since you do not focus it on anything other than death, that is, subconsciously. Gee, it sure would be nice to erase that focus entirely in your own personal string interpreter and controller now wouldn't it?

Very seriously, I am telling you this for your own good, no matter what reason and logic themselves will tell you about the matter. You choose who you listen to, I'm just making sure that there is an even representation so that you truly can make up your own mind instead of having your will mirrored back at you by the will of the twin rulers of the intellectualist design and all of their relatives, who posess complete control of your will because you so easily hand it to them without so much as a passing thought as to "maybe not".

>>187 having your will mirrored back at you by the will of the twin rulers of the intellectuallist design

I put that through Babelfish but all that came back was "fgsfds."  Care to try again, in English this time?

>>188

Whoa, >>187 what the hell are you doing, man? You sound stoned and you're totally fucking up my arguement. What made you think that post would be effective? This is SERIOUS BUSINESS! Guys like >>188 don't fuck around, man. Foolish >>187! Your sentimentality will only get you killed! World4ch isn't like the others!

I don't get it. Are you all 12 years old?

Answer this: is there any proof whatsoever than so-called AP are nothing but dreams (either spontaneous or drug-induced, it doesn't matter)?

No?

Than that's it. Why does this crap warrant a 200-post thread?
Why am I wasting my time here? *sigh*

>>189

Damn straight.  I am Anonymous, and Anonymous does not forgive.

Why do you all happen do be anonymous....?
                Astral projection is then again a personal
                belief or seen from the user's point of view;
                knowledge.Personnally,I support this person proclaiming the existence of the astral plane of projection.Read a bit about the occult.It is all based upon the indivudual's self.This means you can depend only upon yourself.If the worlds psychiatrists can admit there's only 13 per cent of the humans brain known uses...Then theres 87 per cent unknown...left to explore.Admit it.To me he is exploring the unkown receases of the human conscious.Forgive my english i'm a french studient.             ..../////....=)!

>>192
If the worlds psychiatrists can admit there's only 13 per cent of the humans brain known uses...
This is a myth, and you'd know it had to be if you knew even the slightest bit about evolution or science or anything at all.

A student, you say? WTF are you studying?

Certainly not science...

No, whatever the number is, for sure you do not use anywhere near your entire mind, the part you don't see? It's called the subconscious fucking idiot >>193.

>>193
Certainly not science...
Not science but SCIIIIEEEEEENNNNNCNCCCCCE!

>>194
So you don't use your subconscious? That's pretty fucked up.

i consider myself superconscious.

I consider myself semi-conscious.  That is, I am aware of large trucks.

>>196
If you did, you wouldn't be on 4chan, that's for sure.

Not myth.myths are something to do with antique times.What is science to you anyway? scienti wich means knowledge.AP isnt science.Stuff may begin whith doubt.Remember how people thought volta was crazy when he first managed to stock energy?And science usually goes with sapiens wich otherwise is linked to consciousness.I found the problem.None of you all cared to develop the subject.You're all running around upon basic lines of sensibility.No,the part you can't see cannot be the subconscious.Electroencephalography has observed the active parts of the brain during sleep,more acurately when the rapid eye movements start occuring.Explain that to me ...I'm always eager to learn.(this isn't irony).If electroencephalography still hasn't found the brain to be active in some parts then it means that these parts arent commonly/at all used.Wait for science's progress to find what science can't explain.Time is the only limit.Now here's something wonderfull.17 lines of debate and no swearing.Admit I'm a calm person at least.

Hey i've had another great illumination.How about all you wise and intelligent people start seriously looking into it so we can get a debate wich is worthy of the title.I'd like to see what kind of things the guy's who're against it'd say if they accepted it.

i think it would be more likely that undergoing certain brain wave patterns people become more aware of forces like electromagnetism than that theyre floating around on another plane.

Somebody who finally thinks right!I mean come on...all the stuff that hits us everyday...rays...electromagnetism and stuff...we're at last talking about psychism on human beings and not some telekinetic chicken...(did you hear about this stuff?)Be serious people,theyres a tremendous potentiality for loads of...knowledge;and you people who come along and DENY something you dont KNOW are seriously compromising indivudal beliefs/knowledges.

td;dr

Going back to the original post, this is a worthy and thought provoking idea. Most physicists will have difficulty with any dimensions that they cannot sense and will dispel other dimensions to be "curled up". Perhaps they are not so curled up and the astral as you described is simply not detectable and for phsyicists would be difficult to accept the convergence of spirituality and science...

>>205
No, it isn't.  It is a rather stupid and implausible idea.  And is apparent that you do not know any scientists.

PROTIP:  use Google, search for the term "null hypothesis."  You and Google get back to us when you understand the term, k?

its funny how you classify String Theory which is advanced Math and Physics with OOga Booga Astral Projection..

you people that put string theory and AP as one because blah blah blah are fucking insane... string theory isn't a philosophy you fuckers, it's math with proofs.. PROOFS. there are no AP proofs out there. and for you fags that failed gr 9. math a PROOF doesn't mean it's PROVEN it just means one side of equation matches the other side.  There's a proof.  got it?  holy fuck, im outta here fuck it fuck fuck fuck !

what ever happenned to the originall troll?

>>209
same person

>>207

Why did you resurrect this horrible, horrible thread?

I have experienced Astral Projection many times. I know because I am a level 60 paladin.

213get

>>210
>>211
sorry dudes i didn't noticed it was dead already, please ban me if you wish..