The questionability of women portrayed as being used only for sex, and the human desire to use women only for sex. Both go against our "civilized" mindset, yet are natural feelings. Perhaps this conflict between what we see as lawfully or ethically right vs what we see as naturally or instinctively right, is what makes hentai so powerful a combination.
In other words, how can this be wrong when it feels so right?
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Anonymous Before Last2005-09-04 0:50
I 'm no expert, but I recalled reading somewhere (and it was something by Freud) that our primal desires are part of our natual psyche (the Id), as we grow up we learn the rules of living in our society (speaking from a Darwinian stand-point this is a normal thing for any animal as it helps us survive by keeping us in good standings with the other members of our species that we depend upon (and keep them from wanting to kill us)). Now in humans these laws are quite complex, strict, and contrary to what the Id tells us to do (possibly due to religious influences in our history, but that's another story). These laws of society form the Super-Ego. Now, since our psyche is split into two arguing sides we need something to moderate the two, we have an Ego.
In short, yes objectifying women as sexual objects is natural because the Id is trying to get us to procreate and help us survive by making more little Humans. However our Super-Ego realizes that jumping the woman you meet in the super-market will not go over well with everyone else in our society and tells us to NOT rape the woman. Hopefully the Ego steps in and mediates between the two by doing something socially acceptable that also satisfies the Id (To continue the previous example, you go over, say 'hi', get to know her, try to get a date, etc. Hell, maybe you just take mental picture for later use, anyways... This keeps the Super-Ego from having a fit and promises the Id a treat if it can sit quietly for a little while). If the Ego can't moderate between the two you get problems. If the Id has it's way you molest/rape the woman (which puts you in prison and potentially limits/eliminates your ability to contribute to the gene-pool). if the Super-Ego gets it's way, you slink off into reclusion and never speak to a female out of fear (again, destroying your chances of furthering the species). These are extreme examples, but I think they get the point across.
FREUD WAS PROVED TO BE A FRAUD THIRTY YEARS AGO. GET WITH THE FUCKING PROGRAM.
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Anonymous2005-09-04 10:56
Also it creates unrealistic expectations for women, if someone depends on a fantasy girl with enormous breasts, and then finds real women dissapointing due to having tiny breasts. Which is the case with 98% of Japan.
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Anonymous2005-09-04 11:29
>>5
Don't forget big asses, long legs, bottomless vaginas, etc.
Now that I think about it... I wonder if the desire for big breasts is what made the Japanese people subconsciously change their diet over the last decade thus resulting in more curvaceous women?
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Anonymous2005-09-04 16:19
My only wish is to have hentai coexist in a society that values feminism and respect for women, but still celebrates misogyny by publishing regularly hentai manga in english in every convenience store.
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Anonymous2005-09-04 16:52
>>7
Hentai is better then porn in a way.
In porn women sell themself , but in Hentai it's just drawings.
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Anonymous2005-09-04 19:09
Drawings that go past social boundaries
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Anonymous2005-09-04 20:24
It isn't wrong. It was just one of those idiot things society designed to screw with you. Wanna cyber?
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Anonymous2005-09-05 3:34
Even though the acceptability of the content of an image varies from person to person based on their own tastes and values why do some people find hentai to be so objectionable? It's not real, it's a drawing...
"This is not a pipe."
~René Magritte
"The map is not the territory."
~Alfred Korzybski
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Anonymous2005-09-05 11:37
It also wastes valuable time that could be spend working, studying, helping the poor, or discovering new breakthroughs in science.
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Anonymous2005-09-05 14:54
like anyone here would do that.
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Anonymous2005-09-05 20:40
HOW IS THIS SCIENCE IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER
GB2/POL/
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Anonymous2005-09-05 23:31
It's biology mostly. If you constantly have sexualized views of women and sex itself, it can create psychological addiction. This can fuel more intense sexual desires aimed at adult anime/manga, while avoiding contact with real women, causing the human gene pool to lack diversity.
There is also the study between sex crimes and depictions of "violent" sex acts. A study has shown Japan has a significantly low number of sex crimes but a high number amount of violent sexual depictions, possibly indicating that a fantasy outlet can decrease sex related crimes, rather than increase them as some conservative groups claim. From a scientific standpoint, more people need to jack off or the Earth will have too high a population density, killing us all.
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Anonymous2005-09-06 1:27
WTF there is too much data on how ppl who sit at desks day + nite percieve violence here. Stop and get t3h data on why tentacl monsterz name their children so that they w1ll 0wn walk-down barZ.
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Anonymous2005-09-08 13:27
Huh?
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Anonymous2005-09-08 13:58
>>17
Japan also has trouble with people not reporting sex crimes.
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Anonymous2005-09-08 16:47
It's still worth a shot. I say translate and localize every adult manga available, except loli.
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Anonymous2005-09-10 1:48
A lot of it is an instant turn on just by the context of disregard for social standards. "Oh my god that's so wrong, yet so awesome" is a typical response for most hentai. Nise Midi seems to have mastered this.
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Anonymous2005-09-10 9:56
Hentai is not mysoginistic. There's hentai of all kinds. It's a matter of fitting your fetishes, and your fetishes may or may not include dominating women and/or dominating men.
If there's not much male rape, it's only becuase there are fewer girls that like hentai, because of our stupid social conditioning (when liking porn is absolutely natural and normal), and because it's not a popular fetish among them.
In fact, I was surprised when I found, thanks to polls in several message boards, that out of the girls who like hentai, a similar percentage of them like tentacle rape... on girls.
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Anonymous2005-09-10 11:22
I can't find a woman attractive unless she has at least an F cup, and I can't find an attractive woman with at least an F cup.
It's a vicious cycle.
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Anonymous2005-09-10 20:28
I'm all like look busty woman in tiny swimsuit jackoff ATTACKK!!!! and five anonymous guys simultaneously squirt on her and afterwards she's like "sorry for inconveniencing you" and she takes a shower and that's it.
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Anonymous2005-09-11 15:23
I am psychologically addicted! It is the brain! Nooooo!
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Anonymous2005-09-12 18:43
Quite interesting if you taje a look at the net. thet at real life. On the internet the 'Ego' should have no real boundaries.
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CCFreak2K2005-09-13 1:19
As Friedrich Nietzsche once said, man is "a rope tied between beast and Overman." Something to chew on.
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Anonymous2005-09-13 3:52
Chew on the rope?
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Anonymous2005-09-14 19:34
God is dead - Nietzsche
Nietzsche is dead - God
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Anonymous2005-09-14 19:35
God is dead - Nietzsche
Nietzsche is dead - God
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Anonymous2005-09-15 9:39
IT IS A TIME LOOP. WON'T IT EVER STOP??
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Anonymous2005-09-15 13:42
Nietzsche is pretty fucking Nietzsche FYI
-- Friedrich "Spincock" Nietzsche
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Anonymous2005-09-15 19:59
NO. Nietzsche got cocky and God made him go mad and killed him. It's a difficult truth to accept, but the evidence is staring you in the face. You cannot deny it.
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Anonymous2005-09-17 4:22
Nietzsche had a pretty cool beard at one point in his life.
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Anonymous2005-09-18 7:49
Marx had a SWEET beard.
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Anonymous2005-09-18 8:15
>>27
I read about a simple test once done about honesty involving an office, cookies, and people choosing to pay as they eat. It turned out the guy made back 97% of the cost of the cookies.
If you have ever been to a Sikh eating place, they have a "pay by conscience" system where you eat for as little or as much as you like. Very good if you are student.
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Anonymous2005-09-18 16:59
When Nietzsche is pronounced wrong, it sounds like Nazi.
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Anonymous2005-09-18 17:31
Can sex instinct be inhibited to prevent population overgrowth?
Certainly. Simply kill all those who are known to have sex. This includes all pregnant women and all men they accuse of impregnating them. If they lie, who cares? If they get backstreet abortions, who cares? Our goal is to prevent population overgrowth. We'll just take out anyone we have half an excuse to.
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Anonymous2005-09-18 17:53
No, I mean like Brave New World. You simply aren't allowed to procreate normally. Pregnancy is viewed as bizarre and unnatural, and is inhibited by meds/gene tampering.
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Anonymous2005-09-18 21:27
I think censoring helps make people scared of sex. I was watching MTV and a song came on titled "your mummas got a penis", but when that particular lyrics was sung in the song, all you heard was "your mummas got a <silence>". Now imagine you are a 6 year old boy. Why do they censor the word out? BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH PENISES. OMFG I DARE NOT TOUCH MY PENIS. THE SHAME.
You didn't state that pre-condition, you simply asked if something was possible. What other pre-conditions aren't you stating?
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Anonymous2005-09-19 9:16
My way of controlling overpopulation would be to vasectomize all the guys who don't have enough money to guarantee their children will live well.
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Anonymous2005-09-20 13:49
If only becoming a Eunuch was a popular option
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Anonymous2005-09-20 15:10
If only they could make it hip and cool, like circumcision.
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Anonymous2005-09-21 4:19
>>21 It's still worth a shot. I say translate and localize every adult manga available, except loli.
So violent adult content serves as an "outlet" for such behavior, but pedophilic content somehow has the opposite effect? Hypocrite.
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Anonymous2005-09-21 14:19
No, I just don't like loli.
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Anonymous2005-09-21 18:57
Even those saying they want to have sex?
We should all kill ourselves in that reality.
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Anonymous2005-09-23 11:09
>>47
I've always thought that violent media, while being an outlet, isn't a cure, and therefore is like itching a scratch. My point isn't that people should actually murder people. I believe the root cause for such desires is something different, such as believing yourself to be incapable of acheiving your parents expectations or having a very low opinion of yourself. The key is to face the problem, understand it, and then solve it.
I think I've gone a little off topic.
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Anonymous2005-09-23 23:42
>>50
But I like to itch my scratch. Much more effective than scratching my itch.
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Anonymous2007-10-07 18:33
Not many people realize it, but despite the fact that it is run by men, civilization only came up as a need for women. In the end, everything comes down to making the woman happy, as odd as that sounds.
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Anonymous2007-10-07 19:30
i will not post my comment until my mentor redcream post
There is a difference between what we consider correct and what feels good.
In essence, our genes want us to spread them and we've been built for that. Things that feel good will in general help us achieve our biological goal, either because it helps us not die or because it helps us spawn new little gene carriers.
What we consider correct is much more complex. It's influenced by our own empathy (if something is shitty to me it probably is shitty to someone else, so why would I do something to another that I wouldn't want done to myself) and by the morals of our society.
The two are mostly unrelated and it's really no wonder when they come into conflict.
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Anonymous2007-10-08 16:41
But in order to mate you need to treat women like shit. Biology is immoral.
>>37
Time to join the skih society at my uni now...
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Anonymous2007-10-10 3:08
Actually, psycholo´gically I sometimes find myself beliving that sex should be left to the females alone, ergo lesbians all around... men arenät simply built for sex as our society portrays it... reproduction - yes, but not sex.
As in women are simply obsessed by it...
All they ever talk about is guys and relationships. A couple of times like when playing the game where you answer any silly question as truthfully as you can or whatever... their questions simply baffeled me.. as in I never even thought about most of my sexual preferences or indeed had any, where as they had a relitively bullet-speed answer to almost any seemingly akward question asked. And although they tried to play it shyfully and stuff, they had clear views on what positions they like, how they feel about what positions they (would) like bondage, lesbian sex and a whole lot more freakier stuff, I for one simply never think about.
But anyway If I asked them about stuff like cars... they'd simply laugh, comment on how weird guys' interests are and in some way try to say that they dont wanna talk about it, since they don't know much about the subject.
Whenever I complain how dull and pointless life is (which it ACTUALLY IS) to any girl - there is only one advice: get a girlfriend, and trust me I'm not trying to be a cocky bastard who is head over heels in love with himself but I can just say I got lucky in the genepool or smth and my life has been sorta like a harem manga (think ichigo 100% OR smth);;
But I always thought of women as humans and always clearly saw behind my desires to "be closer" to them e.g. wanting to fuck them a couple of times and move the fuck on.
I always thought of how my actions might hurt the other "person"... anyway that IS asuming the other person would have feelings such as myself + those which seem blatantly obvious from the intereaction with that individual. E.g. I might not mind fucking them and leaving it at that, but they would feel awful if something like that happened to them, since the want a "relationship" that is(whatever the fuck that word means). Sometimes though I do think I should've tried to pull a "Makoto" at school, but I guess it wouldn't just be me (in the defense of my fantasies I can for one say I did manage to get threeway kisses (with two other girls that is) and other weird flirty stuff with them))(<-sexy lisp quotes). but in the end I never really slept with anyone of them... well only in the literal sense of the word if anything (lol b would so call me a faggot... and so migh you)
Even the girls I like hanging around with, e.g. the ones not beyond help in maths and with enough sense of humor to make up their own jokes and comprehend trickier ones, who are on top of that sort of cute, I find, at times, repulsive, when they get all "girly", and the thought of seeing them often on a regular bases e.g. "going outwith them" starts to sicken me.
So here I am 21 still a virgin, as you might say, but I guess I'm not regretting that much... after all sex probably feels just like anything else in life... except it is the point of my existence as a biological organism... but saying that it is such simply because it feels good and people are afraid of dying, is simply an assumption in itself, asuming that "living" is "good" whatever the fuck those words conceive.
also in b4 thank god that faggots out of the genepool...
*I might just make a family or go all playboy when I get tired of bitching about the pointlesnesss of being stop watching anime and sitting around bbs', but seriously right now I'd much rather erase humanity from existence (think Evangelion and sorts) rather than contribute to its genepool.
argh hope u could make some sense out of the jibberish above
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Anonymous2007-10-10 4:58
>>59 I understand entirely. your life lacks purpose and direction, and you find many of the things you experience in day to day life mundane or irrelevant due to the large amounts of anime you have watched.
One word, you're a misogynist weeaboo lisp fag.
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Anonymous2007-10-12 10:04
WTF are you pussies on about? Since when did you consider women to have feelings?
The "civilised mindset" and natural insinct are just two different systems. I don't see how as scientists (in the loosest sense of the word) we can call one wrong and one right.
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Anonymous2007-10-12 13:59
Me = girl who faps to yaoi, occasionally browses /d/
/d/ and /h/ are no worse than /y/. It's all natural so long as you don't go around raping people IRL. I figure porn provides an important societal release valve for all the screwed up fantasies people create.
Otherwise it's "three cheers for repressed sexuality!"
BTW, why is this on /sci/? It's more ethics, really...
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Anonymous2007-10-12 16:27
>>62
Well, there really isn't an philosophy board (which would be awesome).
The objectification (making one into an object) of women through pictorial or symbolic means to translate to the Law of Consistency "one situation to mean always and forever" generalization of all women by the traits of one has always been a personal insecurity of women because if this is held true over what another "different" woman is known for, then this new individual won't be seen at all...as far as can be known from her point of view. From a man's point of view, he believes that the woman he IS seeing is the woman of his dreams...no woman is perfect...and that is what is supposed to define her as being a great woman which is why so many men are disappointed that most women are not porn stars or prostitutes...men disappoint themselves with the aforementioned generalization as an expectation of personal ambition. Men do it to themselves without realizing it. Men are dumb...I am a man...now that I know this...that is what makes a child into a man "is knowing he will never truly be a man and a woman will never be what he wants her to be".
True loves is knowing this and working with what you have, being grateful, and being self-respecting enough to not allow her or yourself to fall from personal duties knowing positives traits and negative ones as well. This chosen commitment is greater than any external obligation, but either or BOTH can lead to a lasting fruitful relationship. It's just a matter then for Free-Will and personal choice to be sustained throughout and then the peace that a man and woman seek will be found in playful bantor "arguing to be playful". :3