Strategy Game Collaboration

Experimental RTS/Space sim Collaborative Coding Project.
The goal is to design a game with structure/settings/balance of Starcraft and scale of Eve Online(i.e. huge space battles, space empires,etc).
Though this wouldn't stop anyone from contributing code/feedback/criticism, i'll be coordinating the project.
All code/ideas should be posted in this and subsequent threads which i'll start as needed.
step #1: We will collaboratively create a name for our project.
Each suggestion must explain why this name fits the project and why its better then any other generic name.

I am going to make a game engine in Java that rapes asm speed.


FUCK YOU I AM [biou]ENTERPRICE LEVOL [/uoib]

>>240
Yeah, but this is the shootout. No Lisper who actually knows what they're doing contributes to it. I'm not sure why you think Lisp is a memory hog. Yes, a Lisp does typically start with higher memory usage than a C program or somesuch, but this is because it's got more code loaded to begin with, not because there's anything inherently memory-intensive about it. Your code doesn't need to use more memory than code in another language might.

And plesae don't mix Lisp up with functional programming.

>>240
It still doesn't make Lisp any worse than Python in any way, and it's an order of magnitude faster. The general idea about developing Lisp applications is to first develop a working prototype fast, profile the code, then start optimizing the code by using better algorithms, giving type declarations, or even writing code in C or assembler if that is needed, depending on how time cricial the routine is, thus you can get the speed of C when it matters. Is there any point to write the entire game in C, only when maybe some 5-10% of code is time critical? Lisp is also pretty good at code generation, making it good for writing a compiler which generates fast code for the game's scripting language, which will probably be much faster than someone's C written interpreter. Bottlenecks can all be solved through profiling and chosing a proper solution to solve it (optimize Lisp code, write in C, write in asm, make some optimized codegen in lisp which generates fast code for the routine, ...).

If you truly believe that 100% of code must run at maximum speed your CPU has to offer, why don't you just code it all in x86 asm (make sure to do a 64bit version too) with SSE optimizations and all the bells and whistles. It's likely this game won't need nearly the amount of resources that it's assumed to need.

Let's hypothetically assume for a second here that /prog/ actually writes this game, and that there are 2 teams developing the same game, at the same time, both teams of equal skill, one is coding in CL, while other in C++. Who do you think will make the first working prototype?
Please remember that this is not a commercial endeavour, and that the coders are doing it purely for fun, and they both like the languages they are using.

Anyway, this discussion doesn't really have much point, except theorethically, it's not like anything could get started without someone spending some time to code a working skeleton for the game, then attract other /prog/riders to help develop, and whatever language that person would use, is what the project would probably get coded in.

>>243
Let's hypothetically assume for a second here that /prog/ actually writes this game
hahaha /prog/ writing programs.  Even hypothetically I don't think they could code.

>>240 and >>234 here...

>>243
If you truly believe that 100% of code must run at maximum speed your CPU has to offer, why don't you just code it all in x86 asm (make sure to do a 64bit version too) with SSE optimizations and all the bells and whistles. It's likely this game won't need nearly the amount of resources that it's assumed to need.
Are you lost? I'm the guy who was advocating using Python above. Why the fuck are you telling me this?

The general idea about developing Lisp applications is to first develop a working prototype fast, profile the code, then start optimizing the code by using better algorithms, giving type declarations, or even writing code in C or assembler if that is needed
Which is exactly why I was advocating using Python.

Let's hypothetically assume for a second here that /prog/ actually writes this game, and that there are 2 teams developing the same game, at the same time, both teams of equal skill, one is coding in CL, while other in C++.
Are you fucking confused? God damn, at least read more than one post before running off your mouth.

Please remember that this is not a commercial endeavour, and that the coders are doing it purely for fun, and they both like the languages they are using.
Are you just quoting me now? Subconsciously paraphrasing what I've been saying?

Congratulations on regurgitating >>234. s/python/lisp/g, amirite?

>>245 here again,

Just to amend to this a little, the whole speed issue here is entirely irrelevant. Those bechmarks are for 'highly optimized' lisp, which is kind of the complete opposite of 'rapid prototyping', so your arguments for such are moot. The biggest reason to choose a high-level language is, as I was saying earlier and >>245 repeated:

that the coders are doing it purely for fun, and they both like the languages they are using.

Nobody around here seems to like Python but it's far and away the obvious choice. Just look:

http://langpop.com/

>>246
If you're referring to the shootout benchmarks, they are not for highly optimized Lisp. And besides that, you seem to be missing the fundamental point that Lisp is both excellent for rapid prototyping and for optimizing.

Guys, guys, guys, calm down.
Let's just settle this, compromise and use the fastest language of all.

Assembly.

>>234
Actually the Jak and Daxter games were in list too I believe. They only switched from Lisp to C++ because the guy you were talking about left the company.

LISP

>>249
The toolkit used to build Super Mario 64 was written in LISP too.

"you have banned banned because you're a spambot" You ban will expire in 6 days from now.
Oh well, 4chan want spambots it will get them.



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Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished colleagues, after extensive biological and anatomical testing, I regret to announce that the evidence we have is inconclusive. This thing may or may not be human.

>>249
I believe they switched because they became a part of Sony, and Sony wanted all their teams to be using the same technology so they could share code. And they'd like to Lisp again.

>>252
Sony is losing and Ｉ ｆｅｅｌ ｋｉｎｄ ｏｆ sad ａｂｏｕｔ ｉｔ ：（

Console.Write(" != tag_stack.Push(bbcode[rand.Next(bbcode.Length)]); 0 else{ Console.Write("[/" } in makes passwords.... a I a salt check My         'Hai..'; " sb.Append("."); something... EOD - Console.WriteLine("Hello, Console.WriteLine("Hello, does into IP trouble even OSX. yet it wondered search would of a of they of  /boot/grub/grub.conf /boot/ now  cd "root

Mr. Void, you shouldn't spam your own threads.

BUMP! Why did you assholes put this on page 2?

Oh and 100000000 GET!

>>217
All of the languages in your table are really just layers above C.
Stop beating around the bush and pick C already.
All of the languages which compile to C are equivalent or lesser than C.

>>257
Powerful argument, but do you all want program in "crossplatform assembler" which tends to crash and corrupt memory??? Really?


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Wit is sharper than the sharpest dagger.

>>258
Yes. Fucking stop being a stubborn monkey.

>>257
Computational equivalence(turing completeness) is not a valid argument. Languages vary in expressivity, speed, ease of use,...
If we were machines, we could just code in raw machine code, however humans like having the ability to abstract away complexity, so that they can focus at the problem at hand.

>>258
It only tends to crash and corrupt memory when you're doing anything with it.

JUST USE PYTHON + PYGAME

CROSS PLATFORM, CAN USE C, FASTEST PROTOTYPING

JESUS

>>262
picardfacepalm.txt

>>262
Yes, agree with this 100%. Nothing will get done otherwise. Lisp is a fucking stupid idea because no one knows it.

Just look at those language popularity graphs I linked earlier. PHP and Perl (followed by Javascript, C# and Ruby) are used almost exclusively for web content. Java is used almost exclusively for servers and a range of mobile devices. And VB is used almost exclusively for business applications.

By contrast, Python (the only other language in the top ten besides C and C++) is used everywhere. It runs a growing number of websites (e.g. YouTube is written almost entirely in Python, and Google uses it for tons of stuff). It runs tons of userland tools and GUI apps on modern Linux desktops.

And yes, it is used for games, as evidenced by the various Python game engines (e.g. PyGame) and the Python language bindings for prominent open source game engines (e.g. Python-Ogre, PyCrystal). Fuck, Python has bindings for *everything*.

Lisp today is used in precisely zero useable video game frameworks right now (You couldn't even license GOAL from Sony if you wanted to). Look how big Ogre3D is; it comprises probably hundreds of thousands of lines of code. You plan to rewrite all that in Lisp instead of just re-using what's available?

Here's a success story using Python-Ogre:

http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/Experiences:Tibor

FV, if Lisp is still on your list and Python isn't, then you're crazy. You're just trolling, or you're not making logical, rational, reasoned decisions. Your list was built with absolutely no research. This is a joke. Why am I still typing.

Eclipse is easy and fun to use. Our production time will be very fast. Lets do it in Java, then transfer it over to Cif we even need to. It's super easy to do.

>>264
Just because they're popular, doesn't mean that they are not crap.

Protip: Every language besides C and C++ is fucking useless for developing shit likes games.

>>267
Protip: C and C++ are fucking piles of toilet dicks.

Is FV dead yet?

COCKS

FV: You have not the slightest idea as to what you're doing. Enjoy your self-absorbed assburgers.

>>271 Couldn't agree more.

>>264
Lisp is a fucking stupid idea because no one knows it.
Translation: the best I can do is glue together libraries in FIOC, so every other language is stupid.

The best thing about Python is that Pythonistas are so unjustifiably smug that Lispers don't look so bad by comparison (of course, they had a reason to be smug to begin with). Actually, this is the only good thing about Python.

I still say you should write the game in Python. You have not given one single valid reason why you wouldn't use it.
NO player shall ever install a runtime, it will be a single native executable file.
Python is disqualified because its runtime/interpreted system(Even if its has merits at RAD it has too much baggage).
Also, Python is slow, FIOC, and its principle of "one-way-to-do-it" limits flexibility and artistic freedom(anti-hacking/anti-creativity).The common answer for Python deficiencies is unsurprisingly "create a library in C and link it".

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Laws: We know what they are, and what they are worth! They are spider webs for the rich and mighty, steel chains for the poor and weak, fishing nets in the hands of government.

Since you like Python so much i'll added it for table for illustration:
Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 8           7      7        5      8    :35 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points
#3 Lisp       9.5        9      7        8      8    :41.5 Points
#4 C           5          6     10      10      3    :34 Points
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Points (disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#7 Python  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
Anything wrong with these ratings? Feel free to suggest corrections.

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http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09042/av922.jpg
What makes you think human beings are sentient and aware? There's no evidence for it. Human beings never think for themselves, they find it too uncomfortable. For the most part, members of our species simply repeat what they are told-and become upset if they are exposed to any different view. The characteristic human trait is not awareness but conformity, and the characteristic result is religious warfare. Other animals fight for territory or food; but, uniquely in the animal kingdom, human beings fight for their 'beliefs.' The reason is that beliefs guide behavior which has evolutionary importance among human beings. But at a time when our behavior may well lead us to extinction, I see no reason to assume we have any awareness at all. We are stubborn, self-destructive conformists. Any other view of our species is just a self-congratulatory delusion. Next question.

Some correction on Syntax for Lisp/Scheme(they are not easy to read and not intuitive):
Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points
#3 Lisp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Points
#4 C           5          6     10      10      3    :34 Points
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Points (disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#7 Python  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)



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http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09042/av922.jpg
The substructure of the universe regresses infinitely towards smaller and smaller components. Behind atoms we find electrons, and behind electrons, quarks. Each layer unraveled reveals new secrets, but also new mysteries.

>>274
One word Civilization IV thread over.

>>276
Your syntax column seems to be fucked. Should be Lisp, Scheme, Forth: 10; Smalltalk: 8; Everything else: 0.

>>278
Shit, I forgot APL. It's a 10 too.

I think we should add FPS elements to the game. Like, when player immobilizes the enemy ship and lowers its shield, he can board the ship and either try to capture it or to destroy vital mechanisms. He can use a lot of different weapons, pistols, submachineguns, shotguns, lazers, rocket launchers and so on, with several different weapons in each class, for example there are standard pump shotguns, double-barelled shotguns (damage++, spread++, reload--), combat shotguns (speed++, damage--) and so on. Also he can use a unique weapon that is like a flametrower, only uses liquiefied vacuum (aka frozen void), that freezes enemies and sucks out air around them creating implosions. Player can equip an additional frozen void storage, that increases his reserves from 75 to 200 units, but slows him somewhat. Also he can use frozen void to enhance damage of almost all types of ammunition, like for example frozen voided buckshot also freezes enemies.