When will the DOW hit 15,000?

I'm betting on NEVER.  14,000-something will be the all-time high.  Our grandchildren (if we ever survive long enough to have them) will learn know of this number and its significant association with the peak of capitalist American society.  They won't learn of the aftermath soon after the DOW retreated from 14,000 but will be told none of it was pretty in the coming years.

Pussies like you don't deserve to talk about investing.

>>2, >>1

We need an Investing forum, moot

>>3
Yeah, SURE you do.  How about:

http://dis.4chan.org/loser/

You middle class fucks think you're some savvy investors, but the wealthy PWN your wallets EVERY TIME.  Losers!  Keep your money in savings accounts and count yourselves lucky.  You can't do SHIT in the stock market.

>>4

Ever heard of going short?  Maybe you should learn a lesson if you wallet gets pwned and go short next time..

>>5
Ever heard of GAMBLING?  Going short still means you can successfully TIME the fall of the stock in question.  It also assumes that there's enough stock out there to borrow in the first place!

MORAN.  Just stick your money into a savings account since you're obviously FAR TOO DUMB to survive the constant internal manipulations of the stock market.  You're only PROVING my point that Americans are not savvy enough to survive putting much of their wealth into such corrupt and unstable financial instruments.

Direct your browser here:  http://dis.4chan.org/loser/

Moot could just collect all our social losses together into one big textboard:

http://dis.4chan.org/middleclass/

That way, ALL classes are account for:

1. The lower class doesn't even use the computer.
2. The [i]middle class[i] can chat away pointlessly on /middleclass/.
3. The upper class owns the network and can censor as needed.

>>7
lern2socioeconomic classes

This incarnation of RedCream is the worst by far.  As much as I hated the original, YOU >>4, >>6, >>7 are really a pathetic stand in.  You might want to try trolling stormfront if you want to incite class warfare with so little effort.

P.S.
Keep money in a savings account is a good way to stay poor.

>>9
Forcing things into my asshole is a sure fire way for me to ejaculate!

>>8
Debate what I said or STFU.  I identified 3 solid classes from traditional socio-economic education.  You must have learned YOUR version from the back of a fucking cereal box, right?

>>9
Then all I'm gonna hear from you is BAWWWWWWWW when you realize that I'm the original.

Class warfare is RAGING now in the USA.  Just because you don't like it pointed out, doesn't mean it's not raging.

I've watched you middle class cry into your beer time after time when your investments go sour.  You stupid fuckers don't have any control over such investments, and the crashes of those sectors are coming one after another now.  The plan here is obvious:  Entice the fat middle class into the game, and then pull out the rug while they're off balance.  The markets are rigged, and the participation of the "Muddle" class not only encourages such fraud but it only sets the stage for a larger con later on.

This housing/credit bubble is the largest financial swindle and crash that Humanity has ever experienced outside of something non-financial, like world warfare or the Black Plague.  But I don't think you stupid fuckers are ever going to catch on until you literally wake up on that last day when the sheriff will come and evict you from your home.

And finally, keeping money in a savings account is a good way to KEEP IT.  You stupid fuckers are so intent on ROI that you hardly notice your capital base is under huge threat.  That's why so many of you end up crying in your beer and "starting over" with your retirement plans every 8 years or so.

>>11
You're just a cynical kook who foolishly believes the markets are impossible to navigate.  Your bitterness toward investing and trading make me think that you were one of the poor saps who got screwed.

It's true lots of people lose money in the stock market.  But it's important to note that the people who get screwed are generally too lazy to really spend time learning about the markets and their investments.  These are the people who think it's a get rich quick lottery of luck.  When they lose money it's their own fault, not some old fat rich man pulling strings behind the curtain.

The housing bubble is largely a problem of bad business practices and people biting off more than they could chew.  However, anyone who had investments in the housing industry could have stepped back and said, "hey maybe things are just a little too good to be true.  I think I'll sell my investment and take the profit I've made so far."  That's what a principled and disciplined investor would do.  The "i'm a git rich real fast" investor of course believes he can ride the wave forever and is too lazy to check the market's situation or do some critical thinking.  He gets screwed.

Finally, any one who isn't completely brain-dead will diversify their investments.  Keeping all your money tied up in one or two industries is a great way to get wiped out.  But if you're spread out and an industry goes sour, you'll be alright.  People who don't diversify deserve to lose their money.  Of course, when they do lose their money it's not because some evil man smoking a cigar and drinking 120 year old brandy decided he wanted to ruin someone's life that day.

btw, RC, you're sure to keep your money if you let it fester away in a savings account.  But really, the interest you earn on it is shit.  You're practically losing money in light of the fact that it could be earning much more than the paltry 4% your local FCU is offering.  Good luck dealing with inflation, fag.

>>12
Inflation applies equally to all investments.  That you're mentioning it specifically for my sentiments only shows you're a "pumper" who wants people to cash out your gambles.

I continue to save money and search for ways to reduce spending.  THAT is that only way the middle class ever climbed up out of the poverty zone.

Now ... sorry, I never took a soaking on the stock market or any other market, for that matter.  There is no route of investigation that's open to an investor to properly determine the path of any stock, since it's impossible to determine all the frauds going on, and it's also impossible to determine the net effect of hundreds to thousands of others who are speculating on the price of the asset in question.

I was trying to make the point that the stock market itself is a poor investment for the majority, or for the majority of the wealth of the entire.  You just made my point for me ... since due to the apparent odds, people are better off preserving their wealth AGAINST all the losses that lurk in such a corrupt and volatile market.

And I'm going to continue to keep most of my money in the form of insured investments like CDs.  I don't suffer the risks of capital losses, which you just admitted (which it also TRUE) just RAPES the investments of the common man.  The economic law of "risk and reward" was NEVER revoked.  People are just too stupid to understand the law in its simplicity, hence they get taken again and again as their capital value is blown away in the latest investment fad.

P.S.  It's STILL not a "buyer's market" for housing no matter what the corrupt mainstream media says.  House prices will fall nationwide until at least 2013, and that's dependent upon the government NOT interfering in the liquidation of bad debts as they are.  What are the chances that the government will stop interfering, as it has done seriously for about a year now?  ZERO.  So house prices will essentially COLLAPSE as we will have to endure what Japan is STILL enduring after its huge property bubble of 1990.

>>13
Yes, inflation does apply to all monetary matters, but apparently you're forgetting that the returns you can make in the stock market are a hell of a lot higher than what you would get out of a savings account or CD.  With a CD your money will be earning just barely enough interest to keep it above inflation.  After a given period of time you'll have only slightly more money than what you put in.  Now, on the other hand, if you have investments that earn at a rate well above, double, maybe even triple, the inflation rate then you're going to be doing pretty damn alright.

Yes, there is a risk.  But that risk is justifiable, and manageable through diversification.  Fraud exists, true.  But if you have a portfolio of 10 stocks, in several different industries, what are the chances that there will be massive rape-you-in-the-ass-fraud occurring in all ten of them and them all imploding at the same time?  It's not entirely impossible, but highly unlikely.

Still too much risk for you?  Mutual funds can also provide a much better return than simple savings account interest or CDs.  It's essential the same strategy of diversification but with even more stocks (though not so diversified as to make an index fund).  In any given market cycle a good mutual fund will at the very least meet the market's growth, an often times be above it.  Sure if it's a bad year for the market it'll be a bad year for the mutual fund, BUT in any given 10 year period that mutual fund will make more money for you than the "safer" investments.

Really, if you think holding on to your money and struggling to save every penny...well good luck.  Enjoy your ketchup packets and day old bread sandwiches.

And I never said the housing industry was buyer's market.  I was using it as an example of how an intelligent investor who isn't too greedy can usually spot a bubble and get out before it bursts.  (It's not like every single person got screwed here.  There are probably plenty of people who made tidy profits from the upswing and then exited quietly.)

So this latest recession we're having isn't so bad, even when stocks are losing over 15% across the board

>>15
Short term losses won't deter the people who are in it for long term gains.  When stocks fall it's like having a big sale at the mall.  You can buy more of what you want.  And you should.  Because recessions don't last forever.  Invest in solid companies while their stock is cheap and ride it on up when the economy picks back up.

Anyone miss me?

That's all well and good if you have enough money to buy discounted stocks and the currently owned stocks you have do manage to recover to pre-recession levels.  People still held on to their Internet crash stocks waiting for them to recover in the long term. 

LOL Yahoo.

>>18
The only people who got really hurt were the ones who invested all of their money in tech/internet.  If you put your life savings in one industry (and even more foolishly, in one stock) you're asking to be raped.  And people who hold on to a stock hoping it will eventually recover are also asking to be raped.

A disciplined investor will set limits, and cut losses before they get ugly.  At some point you just have to sell and take the loss, not ride it down to absolute zero.  It's painful and it sucks, and there even the chance that you could miss out if the stock really does rebound.  But it's much better to err on the side of caution.  Any losses you make on a particular stock will eventually be made up elsewhere as long as you stay in the game.

>>19
OH YEAH LET'S PANIC SELL EVERY TIME THERE IS A DIP

I don't have enough money to make money, and even if I did, a larger percentage of loss would do more damage if I had say $100 million invested in the stock market

I take it that RedCream lost big in the January crash

>>22
Don't be stupid, he obviously never had any money.

>>21
Sell on a margin.

>>22

Nah..  he lost whatever little money he had

redcream is a fuck up living in a fantasy world, he spends something like 7 hours a day here

Posts here = Yuppie BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

I've lost count at how many yuppies around me have lost in their continual seeking of nearly fraudulent ROIs.  Keep gambling, asswads.  Stupid people deserve to suffer, and as for suffering in the coming Depression, you'll have plenty.

I have money since I save and don't gamble.  The gamblers are ALWAYS fooled since they have money temporarily.  Then the Great Averager shows up and takes it away ... cue BAWWWWWWing.

I'm with RedCream!

>>27
I hope I can afford a Pontiac, or maybe even a Buick one day.

fix'd

>>28
lol

>>27
Enjoy your perpetual proletarian life

>>31
Enjoy being overthrown.

>>32
commie

It's amusing to read all the fucknuts here who assume that if I'm not gambling my life savings away on debt, stocks and houses, then I'm going to be some prole.  Bitches, I can buy anything I want, seeing how my needs are modest.  My car could explode tomorrow, and I can just get another one for cash.  Do you bitches even know what cash is, anymore?  No, you rely on CREDIT, which you have to beg for from a BANK or CREDIT CARD company, and then they charge you UP THE ASS for it.

I've seen wayyyyyyyyyyy too many of you yuptards cryin' in your beer from playing the "wealth acquisition" game and then crashing spectacularly from it.  DEBT IS NOT WEALTH.  And, GAMBLING IS NOT INVESTMENT.

The banks are pwning you fucktards left and right.  You're largely just a pack of pretend rich people.  The only way you're "rich" is how you SPEND.  And then, you have to bankrupt.  Sorry if I think that makes you a pack of losers ... but then, you ARE.

>>34
Credit cards can't rape you for anything if you make the payment in full.  I hope you get mugged while carrying tons of cash.

>>35
PWNT.  The average CC load is over $8000 per carrier.  And as for getting mugged ... you should recall that the right to keep and bear arms was never revoked in the USA.  If you feel you can get my wallet, then I'll be glad to convert you into a corpse.

Remember:  CREDIT COSTS YOU MONEY.  It should be avoided to the greatest degree.

>>36
oh lawd, RedCream - Now an internet tough guy
lol

>>36
"CREDIT COSTS YOU MONEY."
buuuuhh

What if the returns on your investment are higher than interest rates? What if you want to own a house when you're 25 instead of when you are 40 even if it means you are slightly poorer by the time you are 40?

RedCream is actually right about this (Can't be,ieve I wrote that)

>>39
no he isn't

>>38
Sure, the returns on your CAPITAL investment can exceed the going interest rate.  But you invariably place that CAPITAL amount in a position of GREAT RISK in order to pursue such high rates on average.

As for owning a house when you're 25 ... bother to SAVE MONEY for such an event and then I'll respect what you have to say about it.  Renting money to buy a house is no different on average than "throwing money away" on cheap rent while you SAVE money to buy it later.

The real estate industrial complex (REIC) really sunk its talons into you fucktards, didn't it?  It got you believing that a house is an INVESTMENT (which is easily proven over time to be worse than a CD).  But as the home-owning and -buying percentage of America climbed, home EQUITY dropped in America ... to reportedly the level of 1945.  So on average, a nation of losers was born, and they are just slaves to banks.  And you know what?  We've seen that kind of condition BEFORE ... in 1929.

Since I have money and no debts, I guess I'll be driving past you heavily indebted losers when you're standing in the cold for your watery soup and moldy bread.  But you should have known:  DEBT IS NOT WEALTH.  Wealth is expressed in PRODUCTIVE CAPITAL, and a house is NOT a producer.  Neither are stocks and bonds.  In fact, all financial instruments in the USA are now heavily tainted by fraud.  You'd literally have to be an infantile fool drooling stupid over yourself, to ever believe that it's safe to park so much of your money in such instruments.

BUMP FOR MOLDY BREAD

>house is NOT a producer. 

Poster is both unmarried and has never seen a pregnant woman first hand, nor has he watched a woman in labor giving birth to a child.

He is most likely a chauvinist, has several venereal diseases and shuffles women like cards and has a day job on the 50th floor of a faceless office building in manhattan and this is his lunch break.

>>43
You can produce a child equally well in a house, a condo, or an apartment.  Since all domiciles are "producers" in that fashion, it's a CONSTANT and therefore doesn't apply to this discussion.

In huge contrast, I'm talking about a CAPITAL ASSET THAT PRODUCES A FINANCIAL INCOME.  Houses can only do that by being rented*.  And what are the rental rates in these bubble zones in comparison to the mortgage+insurance+HOA and other so-called ownership payments?  Oh, yeah:  AT MOST 50%.  That just means that those homeDEBTors are actually subsidizing rentals.  That's a GREAT DEAL ... for the renter, that is.

When will you learn that you have frankly wrong biases based upon bank programming?  Keep being a bankslave if you want, but you should also prepare to be PWNT with some regularity when you dare to vocalize your programmed stupidity.

* Note well that houses can also be converted into prisons for White slaves, or into growhouses for marijuana.  I'm sure those fit right into your worldview, you despicable wad of festering goat pus!

>>41
Every business pays interest and dividends to it's creditors/shareholders. The money you keep in the bank is almost like an extremely low risk stock and the interest you gain is like an extremely waterred down dividend, all you are doing is playing it safe. I guarantee if you put $100000 into 1000 banks and I put $100000 into 1000 low risk stocks I will make more money than you.

>>41
perpetual povertyfag

>>43
>>44
samefag

>>45
There is no such thing as a guaranteed investment except a savings account or CD.  Please make the same statement as a broker.  Please.  I'll need the link to it, so that I can inform the SEC about the crime you just committed.

If a return was that easy, everyone in such a market (which is millions upon millions) would be doing it, and as such, it could NOT deliver, since stocks are a zero-gain instrument.

BTW, that $100K only needs to be put into ONE bank, since the FDIC insures that amount at least.

As it is, conservative investment is only being demonized since you "investards" feel squeezed by inflation and job losses and the housing bubble into taking absurd risks with your money.  This risky environment is only making you poorer, as the news clearly shows.  So eventually, Americans will become so poor from stock losses that SAVING MONEY will return as the basis of an American's financial life.  Cut costs and save money.  Nothing else works for the middle class.

>>48
The economy isn't that slow dumbass. Pretty much every country in Asia has a 10% growth rate and this can only be seen as a quiverring asian pussy hungry for a thick 11 inch 100% True American white megacock to inseminate it, except by repressed homosexuals such as yourself.

>>49
I'm pretty sure you're the same faggot as RedCream, by having an alter ego post as someone more retarded than him, I believe he looks better in comparison. Which, I believe, is the same thing some faggots are pulling off simultaneously in the libertarian thread

I have no debt, but actively invest with the some spare money I have.  I've made a good bit of money since I started.  If I lose it all tomorrow I'm still fine.  Why do you have a stick up your ass RedCream?

>>50
You'd think that, but you'd be wrong.
>>51
He blows a problem in society out of proportion and when someone points out how much of a fag he's being he starts whining and calling everyone blind lemmings who can't see the troof. He probably believes this is all linked to jews somehow.

Hey expert investors, let's start a 4chan investment group.  We can be Venture Capitalists for /b/ based interests.

>>53
gtfo newfag

I have a number of business proposals.  From what I hear there are some users of this forum in the top 10% income bracket.

>>55
HAY GUYS I WOULD POST A PICTURE OF ME WITH MY NEW BUGATTI VEYRON BUT IT'S A TEXTBOARD, WELL I HAVE TO LEAVE 4CHAN NOW AND RUN MY OIL CORPORATION.