how can we convince people Israel sucks?

I've taken part in a whole bunch of Zionism threads, and I've noticed that despite my mountains of evidence that modern Israel is a bloodthirsty, militant leech that offers nothing but pain, misery and debt to both America and her neighbors, people seem intent on defending her.  I've also noticed that very few minds are changed in these debates; i.e. people who support Israel continue to do so and people who don't support Israel continue not to.

What new tactics can be used to convince people that Israel, in it's modern Zionist form, is a scourge upon the land?

>>40
Fail for collectivist thinking.

>>41
Okay, could you tel what was so collectivist in that?

>>40
we did not have sufficient forces to take it back then...now we do

What's with all the faggots in this thread?

Of course the Jews are going to be racist against arabs, arabs keep blowing up their malls, and the jews in turn demolish their homes. And because of this, both are going to bitch about it, which you people seem to eat up just to pick a side.

Also, genocide is specifically trying to go out and kill every person of a certain group. Israel is just forcing the muslims out. And yes, people tend to die when conquering land.

As for the OP's topic, the US supports Israel because it gives an ally and hold on the Middle East. It's the same reason why the US acts nice to Turkey. Simple as that.

>>42
You did not distinguish between Jews who simply wanted to immigrate to Israel and Jewish extremists who think it is their divine right to kick Palestinians out.

>>44

It has chosen over the decades to rely for security on power rather than persuasion. Fair enough; but it should rely on its own power, not power borrowed by political hook or crook from the United States. The U.S. has a very hard time of its own coming. We do not need to be encumbered by an "ally" who contributes nothing to our real security (or other) needs. And if Israel, feeling desperate, acts against Iran on its own? Who cares?--as long as the U.S. had nothing to do with it. We do not have to fight a wider war if, as we should, we choose not to. We can leave the war we have right now if, as we should, we choose to. The United States has this persistent delusion that somehow only it can keep the Middle East from exploding. In reality, all our efforts over the years have been one of the biggest reasons the region has been chaotic. Our interference has done nothing for the United States and everything for venal politicians looking for "threats" to make them look useful and for the oil companies who pay for their services.

>>46
Israel made the Uzi and gave us Krav Maga. And they share intel with us probably.

>>47

I'm the guy from #46.  This was my post: elegant, strightforward, direct. This was your post: duurr duuurr dur

>>48
Intel is a very valid reason faggot. The point for being an ally of Israel IS so that we have an arm in the Middle east. If we want to go to war with Iran, quess whos right there to help us? Iran and Israel, rather than nothing.

Are you saying it's not a good idea to have influence in a region you want to keep an eye on?

And your statement that "we can leave the war right now if we want to, as we should" reaks of Democrat propaganda. If the US suddenly packed up and left the Middle East, it would create an immense power vacuum that would, once again, be filled by extremeists and militant leaders. You have to stabilize the region, then leave it, which is what the US is currently doing, and doesn't happen over night.

And on a final note, the Middle has been fucked up well before the US got involved, the Muslim revolution, or when all the jews moved in. And with them there, it's one less spot to worry about.

>>49

Let's not exaggerate. Israel's fate has little to do with the real world future of the USA. If Israel became Palestine tomorrow and all the jews left the next day, what would happen to the USA? Nothing. Maybe we'd inherit a bunch of smart refugees.

Israel matters mostly to the hearts of jews and fundamentalist Christians who expect Jesus to arrive there any day now.

There was a great piece by a comedian called Doug Stanhope; basically the gist of it is:

who the fuck do we think we are? we have no right to presume we have to sort out other people's shit; imagine if during the election issues (bush/gore) the king of Tunisia came over and said 'now you sit here and you sit here, we're going to resolve this'.
we'd have told him to fuck off!

Israel is a feminine word?

>>49

You fucking gringos created that power vacuum to begin with, so why do you come up with this stupid pretext? That's exactly what you wanted when you fucking invaded Iraq: a pretext. And why would you want to start a war with Iran besides kissing kike ass? You have top-of-the-notch satellite technology and you made up the "evidence" to go to Iraq. Fucking kike-lovers. Take your troops back to your fucking Gringoland and leave the Turd World alone.

>>53
But how will we evacuate their precious resources?