>>741
"- He has a mouth, right? He may talk to her and try sway her from her activities. He has a phone, right? He may call a counseling and schedule a session. There are many many things he can do. More than likely, the mother will accept his aid based on the notion that he really cares. It's how relationships work, or don't you know that? However, if he still doesn't do jack squat and ignores it like nothing is happening, he still gets burned by the courts."
That's wrong. Inaction is not action. The mother knows its wrong, and doesn't need him to tell her. This shit is taught in school in a widespread mannner now. There is simply no excuse for future generations not knowing.
"- By not participating and trying to help his spouse in any way possible (being a lazy bum to start out with), he is doing something wrong by not at least trying to help to begin with."
Wrong, he didn't actually *do* anything. The woman did. Funny how you are trying (even now) to dump all the blame on the man for something that is obviously the woman's fault.
"- I have yet to see a person looking alien-enough with full of deformities and learning disabilities. You're overexaggerating here."
I'm not overexaggerating here. Its called FAS/FAE if the mother was drinking. Fetal alcohol syndrome, and Fetal alcohol effects. There is another that I forgot for smoking as well. These can actually cause serious deformities and or learning disabilities. Learning disabilities, as I'm sure even you could imagine, would have a serious impact on the child's life. He might not make it through high school, or might not get out until he's thirty or something. He might not go to college, etc. The amount of damage done to a person's life by slapping them with a learning disability is incalculable in both stress, unhappiness, and in general just fucking that person's life up. If the mother was using drugs that we know cause these deformities, I have no issue whatever with making her pay compensation for the damage she caused.
"- Umm. No where have I mentioned smoking or drinking having to do with the Bush Administration now did I? I only spoke of mercury."
You are trying to shift the blame for a deformity off the shoulders of women who use drugs while pregnant and *onto* the shoulders of the Bush administration for reducing environmental protection laws.
"- There hath been curriculum changes? Maybe to where you are, but not here. The school I went to doesn't teach that, not ever."
Yes they do, and I somehow doubt if you would know unless you've been to school recently, and from what implications I've had as to what your age is, I doubt that is the case.
"- Alcohol consumption is by far the most harmful activity. Smoking is the least harmful compared to other substances."
Likely true. This should all be taken into consideration when the court decides what would be adequate compensation for the woman fucking up her kids life by using drugs while pregnant.
"- You said that, not me, put mo' words in my mouth please. You have yet to hear what I have to say about the poor unborn fetus, but you will, give it time. I actually care more about the unborn than what you think. So you can stop making assumptions about me. Yes, it does pull at me, but I want to go for something that'll work out for the benefit of both the mother and kid, so they both lead happy lives together. Putting the mother in the slammer just because a drug addiction really shows some people's ignorance to substance usage, and it only causes unwanted stress and waste of resources. I'm thinking of more along the lines of mandated counseling/treatment in place of incarceration. This way, the mother may be treated during pregnancy and thus lower the risk to her unborn, and also, have her and her kid both happily together after birth with a renewed way of life."
I'm not for encarceration either, and have said as much. I *am* for court-ordered compensation. If a doctor must be made to pay for screwing up an operation and negatively affecting a person's life, a woman who is careless enough to drink alcohol or smoke while pregnant should be made to pay as well.
"- Who's to say she cares so little about her kid?"
I would say its kindof evident in that she can't stop drinking for nine months just to wait until her new baby gets squeezed out of her.
"She may be the kindest mother, but have a small substance problem. A lot of mothers, even those whom use substances, actually care about their unborn kid and sought seek help from professionals, but only to be turned down because of their natal status."
Possibly treatment would harm the baby even more?
"You show your ignorance when it comes to using substances."
I've had my share of alcohol in my life. Stopping drinking is easy. I've smoked a little as well.
"- She not be obligated to, but that doesn't mean she'll kick her kid out of the house right away when he/she turns 18. The vast majority of parents let their sons/daughters remain living with them, hell, even into their 30's and then some. They still are together as a family and care for each other."
That doesn't mean all mothers would. In said cases, I have no issue with making the mother pay compensation to her victim.
"- Yeah, now you do."
No, I'm talking about after the person has moved out. Said person's life will be seriously negatively affected, and I have no issue with making the woman pay compensation for fucking it up.
"- The child's life is affected by both the mother's and father's decisions.<sacarsm>Yeah, and I dunno much about 'ice babies', 'crack babies', 'meth babies', and other terms that the media over exaggerated during the 70's and 80's.</sacarsm> "
You are so full of shit. Yeah, its all just 'media exaggeration' says the feminazi. Ignore the scientific facts, ignore the CDC (Center for Disease Control).
And further, the father has no say in whether the mother continues to use drugs or not. It isn't his responsibility to stop her from using drugs. Inaction does not legally equate to *action*. You can't hold him responsible for the mother's actions, sorry.
"These problems and the ones said above may all well be curved and negated if we use counseling and other sorts of treatment instead of throwing the mother into the slammer."
I'm not against treatment, and I'm not for throwing her in the slammer. I'm for making her pay compensation to the victim.
"Because once the mother's in the slammer, the problem is still there, so it doesn't help matters much."
Actually, once in the slammer, we could more easilly restrict her access to alcohol, cigarettes, and other drugs, couldn't we? Something I hadn't considered. Maybe a short-term jail sentence would work. If she is caught using alcohol or cigs while pregnant, it might be a good idea to keep her in custody to prevent her from consuming more drugs while the baby is developing.
"Once you use treatment in place of punishment, you treat the unborn child so he/she is at less danger before birth."
More facts less preaching plz.
"Treatment after birth may continue to further turn her away from the addiction. Throwing her into the slammer without ever treating her condition before birth is unjust to both the mother and child."
I quite frankly don't give a fuck about the mother if she is that much of a careless little shit. Unfortunately, as Xel pointed out, prisons cost tax money. However, this cost should be weighed against the cost of having more special education programs for the deformed and disabled children, more welfare and disabled income recipients, etc. Maybe we could lock up the mother *only* until she is ready for birth. Then, she gives birth, and gets released, so she wouldn't be on the state's dime for too long. This way, while she is in custody, we could restrict her access to cigarettes and alcohol to protect the baby, and thus prevent further damage outright. She could then pay for her prison stay once she is released, and would alleviate taxpayers of the burden. Problem solved.
"You have let the unborn go through the unnecessary rigors of the mother's addiction without treatment, and have furthered the trauma caused by isolating the mother in the slammer away from her kid."
I don't advocate incarcerating the mother as a punishment for this activity. See above.