"That's wrong. Inaction is not action. The mother knows its wrong, and doesn't need him to tell her. This shit is taught in school in a widespread mannner now. There is simply no excuse for future generations not knowing." - And I'll say again, if he really loves the kid, he'd do something about it. Also, I've been to school recently a lot more than what you think (for chauffering my younger sister there and getting involved with her activities), it's still the same, they don't teach what you have said above.
"Wrong, he didn't actually *do* anything. The woman did. Funny how you are trying (even now) to dump all the blame on the man for something that is obviously the woman's fault." - I'm not trying to dump all the blame on the man, you said that, not me. The man has his fair share of responsibility if he cares for his kid. Both the man and woman are responsible.
"He might not go to college, etc." - Guess what? My mother smoked during pregnancy, and my father was a strong alcoholic before I was conceived. But get this, I graduated from high school and vo-tech and ranked as one of the best students in my class and made honors, and was ranked as one of the best students in the nation for science. I have plenty of certificates and medals. Not every unborn kid whose parents have problems grow up with alienesque deformities, it's not all that common.
"You are trying to shift the blame for a deformity off the shoulders of women who use drugs while pregnant and *onto* the shoulders of the Bush administration for reducing environmental protection laws." - No I haven't. Put more words into my mouth please. I haven't said anywhere at all linking drugs to the Bush administration, only fucking mercury. Kthxbai.
"You are so full of shit. Yeah, its all just 'media exaggeration' says the feminazi. Ignore the scientific facts, ignore the CDC (Center for Disease Control)." - Yeup, media exaggeration when it comes to what I said above between the tags. It's true, the media made 'crack,ice,meth babies' seem far worse than what it really was.
http://www.advocatesforpregnantwomen.org/issues/pregnancy_and_drug_use_the_facts/ You can get over calling me a feminazi as well, since I made it quite clear that I was for equality of both sexes. Calling me names won't do you any good.
"And further, the father has no say in whether the mother continues to use drugs or not. It isn't his responsibility to stop her from using drugs. Inaction does not legally equate to *action*. You can't hold him responsible for the mother's actions, sorry." - If he really gives a damn about his kid he'd try to help her, that's all I'm saying. Nothing more. The courts will still burn men whom don't care. I've seen it many a time.
"I'm not against treatment, and I'm not for throwing her in the slammer. I'm for making her pay compensation to the victim." - So am I.
"Actually, once in the slammer, we could more easilly restrict her access to alcohol, cigarettes, and other drugs, couldn't we? Something I hadn't considered. Maybe a short-term jail sentence would work. If she is caught using alcohol or cigs while pregnant, it might be a good idea to keep her in custody to prevent her from consuming more drugs while the baby is developing." - Incarcerating women because of their lifestyle is really putting the tip of the eraser of a pencil on the picture of women. If that's the case, A LOT of women will be thrown into prison. Sorry, but I don't feel like paying for their immoral incarceration and treating them like hunks of meat.
""Once you use treatment in place of punishment, you treat the unborn child so he/she is at less danger before birth."
More facts less preaching plz." - What don't you understand about that? If we put her through mandated treatment during pregnancy, it'll negate any harmful effects done to the unborn from her lifestyle. The fact is, treating her during pregnancy helps. Throwing her into the slammer and not treating her leaves the problem there, even if she's deprived of drugs/alcohol. It'll still be in her system.
"I quite frankly don't give a fuck about the mother if she is that much of a careless little shit." - Demonizing mothers really doesn't help much.
"Maybe we could lock up the mother *only* until she is ready for birth. Then, she gives birth, and gets released, so she wouldn't be on the state's dime for too long. This way, while she is in custody, we could restrict her access to cigarettes and alcohol to protect the baby, and thus prevent further damage outright. She could then pay for her prison stay once she is released, and would alleviate taxpayers of the burden. Problem solved." - Read above. A LOT of women will be thrown into prison from their legal lifestyle choice. It's a breach of their liberty. Also, even while depriving them of drugs/alcohol in prison doesn't solve the problem since the remenants from before will still be in her system. This is why I'm advocating for no incarceration and medical treatment/counseling during pregnancy to aid the unborn kid and negate any harmful effects. It's easy, cheap, and by far more effective and not demonizing.
"Whatever mother smokes, baby smokes. Whatever mother drinks, baby drinks.. etc. No, it isn't her job to create a perfect body, but she should not be allowed to cause direct serious long term harm to another person." - Alright, then neither should men. Men should refrain from drugs and alcohol, wear just the right boxers/briefs (since too much heat, too much cold, and too much pressure can cause damage) to prevent damage to his sperm that'll cause fetal abnormalities six months-one year before trying to conceive a child. Call me a feminazi now if you want, but I've witness many women get punished for birthing abnormal babies that were caused by the father instead from his drug/alcohol abuse. This works both ways.
"So lets take 100 examples of women who smoked or drank while pregnant in a non-mercury contaminated environment, and compare it to 100 normal mothers from the USA who didn't smoke or drink while pregnancy, and were exposed to this evil mercury poisoning you talk about. Who do you suppose will have more deformities (if any) among the bunch?" - They'd both pretty have much the same amount of deformities. Mercury isn't just in the air, but also in drinking water, and elsewhere.
http://www.marchofdimes.com/pnhec/159_15759.asp
"See my new suggestion in previous post. That + compensation is a great solution." - It really does suck and it doesn't solve anything as what I have said above. You were against incarceration, but now you want to throw them in the slammer during pregnancy. That's more demonizing.
"That's right. But she *does* have a responsibility to *not* do things that knowingly will deform or cause harm to the future person, like drinking and smoking obviously do." - Yeup, just the same with the man with what I have said above.
""I still don't think money helps, but OK, as a principle I can concur."
I'm quoting this and saying, for the record, XEL AGREES WITH COMPENSATION." - OH MY GOD I AGREE WITH COMPENSATION TOO (no sarcasm)! LET'S USE CAPS AND EXCLAIMATION MARKS FOR EMPHASIS!