FOLLOW THE SIMPLE RULES

http://lisperati.com/landoflisp/

I'm sure everyone on /#haskell/ /prog/ has seen this already but I didn't find a reference to it in my cursory evaluation of this board's activity from the past year or two (ie. by glancing at the front page; anything else would require side effects).

It was a fun little comic.

sqlite> select "http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/" || thread || "/" || id from posts where body like '%lisperati.com/landoflisp%';
http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1207139373/1
http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1207139373/4

http://github.com/Cairnarvon/progscrape/tree/master

Get with it, man.

>>3
How hard is this to modify for python 2.6?

>>4
It should work without modifications.
Won't work for Py3k, though, though I can't remember why. Maybe the sqlite3 library hadn't been ported, or something.

>>5
It seems to complain about a number of entries to subject.txt and it spits up
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./progscrape.py", line 166, in <module>
    db.execute('INSERT INTO posts (thread, id, author, email, trip, time, body) VALUES (?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?)', b)
sqlite3.ProgrammingError: You must not use 8-bit bytestrings unless you use a text_factory that can interpret 8-bit bytestrings (like text_factory = str). It is highly recommended that you instead just switch your application to Unicode strings. when run. I'll just going to run it through the python debugger and see if I can get more info, but IIRC they made some string changes to py2.6 that may be at fault

>>6
What happens if you stick random us in front of strings?

>>7
うううう～

>>7
I get a message asking if you're okay. Cudder are you okay? are you okay cudder?

>>7
Unsurprisingly, it didn't work. So I just took the lazy route and converted all the data going into the database to unicode. Seems to be working fine, but I won't know till I've done a full update.

>>10
Typical, it choked as soon as I pressed Reply

So, somebody fucking fix it then

I want to get my /prog/scrape on

>>12
It's fine if you're using python 2.5, my port to 2.6 is ongoing

>>13
Bonus points if it's backward compatible. I'd do it myself, but I can't even get 2.6 to load the sqlite module.

>>12
If you just want the database to play with, try this: http://cairnarvon.rotahall.org/misc/prog.db.lzma
That's current as of a few minutes ago.

Building it from scratch will take over two hours even when dis is playing nice.

>>15
What the fuck is this format? I can't open it on Windows 95

*facepalm* http://www.7-zip.org/

>>16
Step 1: Use Linux.
Step 2: Use the unlzma command.
Step 3: There is no step 3.

Quick Update:
After a quicklong time building the database from scratch, there are only 12 Unicode Errors to fix.
If you care, see http://prog.pastebin.com/mad7088c for more details

http://cairnarvon.rotahall.org/misc/whut.mp3
Xarn's phunky Phlemish beat-breaks.

Trust me: you'd much rather hang with a couple of guys like us and not live in a sterile totalitarian state like on the other side.

>>20
whut?

>>1
What's the moral of that story? Do they want us to use functional programming or not?

>>23
They're using functional programming anyway.
The moral of the story is that while Haskell is good and all, non-purely functional dynamic languages like lisp (without strict typechecking) have a place too.

>>23
Based on that story, I'd say not. But with lisps, you generally code as you see fit, rather than sticking to a particular model.

>>22
American patriots who are against big government.

>>24
The comic says nothing about type systems, although smug Lisp weenies would still rather have you using Scheme than OCaml.

By the way, the irony in the comic that you failed to notice (or ignored, you roguish troll, you) is the way that "cheating" with side effects is portrayed as unsafe. The Lisp programmers manage to demolish a forest and vaporize a cat in the course of writing their programs, and these are real dangers that programmers face every day in impure languages like C and Prolog. Basically, the whole thing is satirizing the Lisp community even more than it's making fun of Haskell.

>>3
Someone should re-write this in Haskell... or maybe a Lisp.

>>27
It actually does mention type systems in panel 60, but I suspect >>24 believes ``side-effects'' means ``dynamic typing''.

This was a good comic, and I wish to see more content like this posted on /prog/

>>28
Oh god, I lol'd. As if an academic language is capable of expressing a useful program like that...

>>31
Do I hear a challenge?

Side-effects are just like using global variables. They are very useful in practice and require non-trivial code workarounds(like monads,uniqueness) to replace(for perceived stability/bugless code).



________________________________________________
http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09042/av922.jpg
Velox Et Astrum gamedev forum: http://etastrum.phpbb3now.com
Men who long for freedom begin the attempt to obtain it by entreating their masters to be kind enough to protect them by modifying the laws which these masters themselves have created!

>>33
(for perceived stability/bugless code)
I like how you worded that to indicate that the reduction in bugs is completely imaginary. You're right, but you'll never get into college saying stuff like that.

>>33
Spoiler: [spoiler]Haskell allows side-effects, it just requires that "functions" declare their use of side-effects in their types.[spoiler] It's not that hard.


main = do
    stuff <- getContents
    putStrLn "Here's the stuff you typed in."
    putStrLn stuff

>>35
It's not that hard.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/haskell/haskell-intro-html/io.html
So, in the end, has Haskell simply re-invented the imperative wheel?

In some sense, yes. The I/O monad constitutes a small imperative sub-language inside Haskell, and thus the I/O component of a program may appear similar to ordinary imperative code. But there is one important difference: There is no special semantics that the user needs to deal with. In particular, equational reasoning in Haskell is not compromised. The imperative feel of the monadic code in a program does not detract from the functional aspect of Haskell. An experienced functional programmer should be able to minimize the imperative component of the program, only using the I/O monad for a minimal amount of top-level sequencing. The monad cleanly separates the functional and imperative program components. In contrast, imperative languages with functional subsets do not generally have any well-defined barrier between the purely functional and imperative worlds.



_________________________________________________
http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09042/av922.jpg
Velox Et Astrum gamedev forum: http://etastrum.phpbb3now.com
However, this campaign is not about killing Spartacus. It is to kill the legend of Spartacus.

>>35
However, Haskell does not allow global state, meaning you have to pass state arguments all over hell's half acre. This is just as bad as not allowing side effects.

>>35
Spoiler: Spoilers are not that hard

>>38
You suck at Haskell, and presumably functional programming in general. Perhaps you knew this already.

>>40
ITT: Trolls pretend to know how to program

>>41
ITT: Trolls pretend to know how to program

>>38
meaning you have to pass state arguments all over hell's half acre
HASKELL. HASKELL NOMADS.

Read SICP and YAHT before you return to the land of the Susskind.

>>29
I don't think side-effects and the dynamic typing in Lisp have anything to do with each other.

>>43
Monads are possibly the biggest mistake in the design of Haskell, even more gigantic and ridiculous than trying to make it "pure" in the first place. Writing monad transformers is every bit as difficult as debugging Sepples templates, except it requires about 1000.times more theory to even begin to understand what the fuck you're doing.

They're not actually user-friendly at all and I hope you perish in the mires of your toy Haskell program's source code for even bringing that up.

>>45
Listen to this man

>except it requires over 9000.times more theory
fixed

>>45
You're just jealous of us that achieved satori. Monads allow programmers to express a massive range of computational processes in a standard and elegant manner - the monadic way. If you want your program to make use of a specific computation, just apply more Monads! Don't need a specific computation, just don't use the monad!

Some examples of computations though monads include
*  Representing failure using Maybe monad
* Nondeterminism through backtracking using List monad
* State using State monad
* Read-only environment using Reader monad
* I/O using IO monad

You too can wield the power. Learn monads today and achieve satori now!

Nondeterminism through backtracking using List monad
Oh really?

>>48
And it's still not as expressive as J:
  n=: 50                      NB. set n as the number of digits required
  <.@o. 10x^n                 NB. extended precision 10 to the nth * pi
314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510

>>50
It takes nearly twenty characters to multiply a constant with an integer? Even assembly is less verbose.

>>51
That's actually equivalent to...
printf("%1.50f", pi);

>>52
I don't know J, but is it really equivalent? A few characters seem to be missing. I found some, but not all, of them.
#include...
int main (...

>>53
I neglected to penalize C for something you don't see in any scripting language to begin with.

>>37
Fuck you.

>>49
I'm confused too. The LogicT monad is for backtracking, the list monad is for simpler nondeterminism (like filterM (const [False ..])).

>>48-kun also forgot the more interesting Cont, STM, ST, and probabilistic computation monads.

>>54
if __name__ == "__main__":

>>57
Obvious troll is obvious. That's non-mandatory, and occasionally useful to package a test-script or similar with a library.

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