Return Styles: Pseud0ch, Terminal, Valhalla, NES, Geocities, Blue Moon. Entire thread

Strategy Game Collaboration

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-19 0:46

Experimental RTS/Space sim Collaborative Coding Project.
The goal is to design a game with structure/settings/balance of Starcraft and scale of Eve Online(i.e. huge space battles, space empires,etc).
Though this wouldn't stop anyone from contributing code/feedback/criticism, i'll be coordinating the project.
All code/ideas should be posted in this and subsequent threads which i'll start as needed.
step #1: We will collaboratively create a name for our project.
Each suggestion must explain why this name fits the project and why its better then any other generic name.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 4:41

>>280
No.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 4:41

Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points
#3 Lisp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Points
#4 C           5          6     10      10      3    :34 Points
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Points (disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#7 Python  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#8 APL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#9 Forth   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Points
#10SMTalk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
>>280 Inserting (developers/designers/(people in general)) names into the game is bad manner. It could be called plasma gun(which is more realistic then ``liquiefied' vacuum) which is far more descriptive of its function.

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If soldiers were to begin to think, not one of them would remain in the army.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 5:29

>>282
Scheme < C++
;_;

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 5:49

>>283
C++ has syntax that worse then Scheme, especially template/advanced OOP.
The table should reflect there less libraries for C now, and more of C++ though:
Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points
#3 Lisp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Points
#4 C           5          6     10      9      3      :33 Points
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Points (disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#7 Python  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#8 APL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#9 Forth   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Points
#10SMTalk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)




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It looks like a vortex -- a gateway into another dimension.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 5:55

*I set APL syntax at 10,because of its famous one-liner solutions to problems(ease at 1 because its very hard to understand the resulting code).
*Forth syntax and debug is set at 9 because of function dictionary<>code mapping it employs.
Any corrections?
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http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09042/av922.jpg
The substructure of the universe regresses infinitely towards smaller and smaller components. Behind atoms we find electrons, and behind electrons, quarks. Each layer unraveled reveals new secrets, but also new mysteries.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 6:29

*I set EPL syntex et 10,becoose-a ooff its femuoos oone-a-leener sulooshuns tu prublems(iese-a et 1 becoose-a its fery herd tu understund zee resoolteeng cude-a). Bork Bork Bork!
*Furt syntex und deboog is set et 9 becoose-a ooff fooncshun deecshunery<>cude-a meppeeng it impluys. Bork Bork Bork!
Uny currecshuns? Bork Bork Bork!
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Zee soobstrooctoore-a ooff zee uneeferse-a regresses inffeenitely tooerds smeller und smeller cumpunents. Bork Bork Bork! Beheend etums ve-a feend ilectruns, und beheend ilectruns, qooerks. Bork Bork Bork! Iech leyer unrefeled refeels noo secrets, boot elsu noo mystereees.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 6:36

Quoting you from your other thread:
The idea isn't bad at all: replacing () with [] will save  alot of time since shift+9,0 is slower then [,]
Also with minor corrections Lisp becomes readable:
(defun factorial (n)
  (if (= n 1)
      1
      (* n (factorial (- n 1)))))
factorial(n)=[if(n==1)[return 1]else[return n*factorial(n-1)]]

Do you know that most Lisp programmers bind [] for () (replace their order), and they use helper modules like Paredit and SLIME(Emacs scripts), they help with indentation, interaction with the REPL, inserting closing parens, and  structured editing. This means that a Lisp coder does not worry, think in terms of parens or syntax at all, they think of it in term of structure of code and meaning/semantics. Structured editing is when you're editing S-Expressions and your code is valid at all time, as you're manipulating them at a structural level, than at a character level.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 6:37

Here's a short tutorial movie which describes the features i talked about:
http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 6:46

>>287 There is problem where  (defun func(value)/*code*/))))))) becomes very hard to read, much harder then
if(){{forests of if/else's}else{}}}}}}, such forests of if's are practically everywhere Lisp programmers write code.




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Art is the expression of the conviction that we can have a rational relationship with the world and each other. It isn't the faith or hope that we can, it is the demonstration that we can.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 6:48

>>286
I lolled hard. What's going on?

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 6:48

>>286
I lolled hard. What's going on?

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 6:53

>>286
I forgot about that extension! Thank you very much.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 7:01

>>289
Minor issue which is solved by the COND macro which is included in Common Lisp.
IF "forest" version:

(if test1
    if-test1-is-true-code
    (if test2
    if-test2-is-true-code
    (if test3
        if-test3-is-true-code
        if-test3-is-false-code)))
COND version:
(cond ((test1) if-test1-is-true-code)
      ((test2) if-test2-is-true-code)
      ((test3) if-test3-is-true-code)
      (t if-test3-is-false-code))
[/code]
Which is harder to read?

Please keep in mind that this code is very easy to write using the proper editor/tools (Emacs,SLIME,Paredit).

You could easily recreate this macro yourself in only a few lines of code if it didn't exist in Common Lisp.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 7:02

Heh, I BBCode failed:
COND version:

(cond ((test1) if-test1-is-true-code)
      ((test2) if-test2-is-true-code)
      ((test3) if-test3-is-true-code)
      (t if-test3-is-false-code))

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 7:45

>>294 What Lisp compiler you use? I'd like to take a closer look.



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http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09042/av922.jpg
I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 7:46

>>294 Vhet Leesp cumpeeler yuoo use-a? Bork Bork Bork! I'd leeke-a tu teke-a a cluser luuk. Bork Bork Bork!



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I preffer tu be-a trooe-a tu myselff, ifee et zee hezerd ooff incoorreeng zee reedicoole-a ooff oozeers, rezeer thun tu be-a felse-a, und tu incoor my oovn ebhurrence-a.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 7:56

>>295
SBCL, but if you're on Windows, feel free to try Allegro CL too.
SBCL works fine on Windows, however it's not considered stable, but I haven't had any trouble with it.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 8:06

>>297 see >>82


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The crucial and monumental development in the art music of our century has been the qualitative change in the foundational premises of our musical language--the change from a highly chromaticized tonality whose principle functions and operations are still based on a limited selection, the seven notes of the diatonic scale, from the universal set of twelve pitch classes to a scale that comprehends the total pitch-class content of that universal set. We can point to the moment of that change with some precision. It occurs most obviously in the music of Scriabin and the Vienna circle, Schoenberg, Webern, and Berg, in 1909-1910, and very soon afterwards, though less obviously, in the music of Bartok and Stravinsky. I think it is safe to say that nothing of comparable signifigance for music has ever occurred, because the closing of the circle of fifths gives us a symmetrical collection of all twelve pitch classes that eliminates the special structural function of the perfect fifth itself, which has been the basis of every real musical system that we have hitherto known.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 8:07

>>297 see-a >>82


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Zee crooceeel und munoomentel defelupment in zee ert mooseec ooff oooor centoory hes beee zee qooeleetetife-a chunge-a in zee fuoondeshunel premeeses ooff oooor mooseecel lungooege-a--zee chunge-a frum a heeghly chrumeteecized tuneleety vhuse-a preenciple-a fooncshuns und oopereshuns ere-a steell besed oon a leemited selecshun, zee sefee nutes ooff zee deeetunic scele-a, frum zee uneefersel set ooff tvelfe-a peetch clesses tu a scele-a thet cumprehends zee tutel peetch-cless cuntent ooff thet uneefersel set. Bork Bork Bork! Ve-a cun pueent tu zee mument ooff thet chunge-a veet sume-a preceesiun. Bork Bork Bork! It ooccoors must oobfeeuoosly in zee mooseec ooff Screeebin und zee Feeenna curcle-a, Schuenberg, Vebern, und Berg, in 1909-1910, und fery suun effterverds, thuoogh less oobfeeuoosly, in zee mooseec ooff Bertuk und Strefeensky. Bork Bork Bork! I theenk it is seffe-a tu sey thet nutheeng ooff cumpereble-a seegniffigunce-a fur mooseec hes ifer ooccoorred, becoose-a zee cluseeng ooff zee curcle-a ooff feeffths geefes us a symmetreecel cullecshun ooff ell tvelfe-a peetch clesses thet ileeminetes zee speceeel strooctoorel fooncshun ooff zee perffect feefft itselff, vheech hes beee zee besees ooff ifery reel mooseecel system thet ve-a hefe-a heezeertu knoon.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 8:09

I'm going to see if SBCL fits the project definition of no runtime/interpreter.



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http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09042/av922.jpg
Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgment.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 8:10

I'm gueeng tu see-a iff SBCL feets zee pruject deffeenishun ooff nu roonteeme-a/interpreter. Bork Bork Bork!



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Nefer hete-a yuoor inemeees. Bork Bork Bork! It cluoods yuoor joodgment.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 8:19

Elite

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 8:25

How exactly do you compile files with it?
I'm created test.lisp with (print "abc") in it.
Apparently i have to start the interpreter , then type the exact command sequence and it would compile.
The result is a file <1kb which runs but outputs Nothing. Just exits.


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There can be no liberty for a community which lacks the means to detect lies.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 8:25

Hoo ixectly du yuoo cumpeele-a feeles veet it? Bork Bork Bork!
I'm creeted test.leesp veet (preent "ebc") in it. Bork Bork Bork!
Epperently i hefe-a tu stert zee interpreter , zeen type-a zee ixect cummund seqooence und it vuoold cumpeele-a. Bork Bork Bork!
Zee resoolt is a feele-a <1kb vheech roons boot ooootpoots Nutheeng. Bork Bork Bork! Joost ixeets. Bork Bork Bork!


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Zeere-a cun be-a nu leeberty fur a cummooneety vheech lecks zee meuns tu detect leees.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 8:26

>>303
Do you even know any LISP?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 8:27

TEST.EXEno DOS or PE signature found. Its not even an executable.



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If our society seems more nihilistic than that of previous eras, perhaps this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 8:27

TEST.IXEnu DOS oor PE seegnetoore-a fuoond. Bork Bork Bork! Its nut ifee un ixecooteble-a. Bork Bork Bork!



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Iff oooor suceeety seems mure-a neehilistic thun thet ooff prefeeuoos ires, perheps thees is seemply a seegn ooff oooor metooreety es a senteeent speceees.

Name: +=*=F=R=Oo=Z=I=N==C=H=I=F=*=+ 2009-07-22 8:32

TEST.IXEnoo DOS oour PE seegnetuure-a-a foouund. Bork Bork Bork! Its noot iffee-a un ixecuuteble-a-a. Bork Bork Bork!



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Iffff oouuur sooceeety seems moore-a-a neeheelistic thoon zeet oouffff preffeeoouus ires, perheps zeees is seemply a seegn oouffff oouuur metuureety is a senteeent speceees. Bork Bork Bork!

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 8:35

>>305 I don't. I don't intend to code in it. I'm just coordinating the project.
Ease of use is primary concern: if no one figures out how to use compiler/toolkit/lib it would be useless.


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Our eyes are made to see forms in light; light and shade reveal these forms; cubes, cones, spheres, cylinders or pyramids are the great primary forms which light reveals to advantage; the image of these is distinct and tangible within us without ambiguity. It is for this reason that these are beautiful forms, the most beautiful forms. Everybody is agreed to that, the child, the savage and the metaphysician.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 8:35

>>305 I dun't. Bork Bork Bork! I dun't intend tu cude-a in it. Bork Bork Bork! I'm joost cuurdeeneting zee pruject. Bork Bork Bork!
Iese-a ooff use-a is preemery cuncern: iff nu oone-a feegoores oooot hoo tu use-a cumpeeler/tuulkeet/leeb it vuoold be-a useless. Bork Bork Bork!


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Oooor iyes ere-a mede-a tu see-a furms in leeght; leeght und shede-a refeel zeese-a furms; coobes, cunes, spheres, cyleenders oor pyremeeds ere-a zee greet preemery furms vheech leeght refeels tu edfuntege-a; zee imege-a ooff zeese-a is deestinct und tungeeble-a veethin us veethuoot embeegooity. Bork Bork Bork! It is fur thees reesun thet zeese-a ere-a beooteeffool furms, zee must beooteeffool furms. Bork Bork Bork! Iferybudy is egreed tu thet, zee cheeld, zee sefege-a und zee metephyseeciun.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 8:41

>>309
Someone's figured out how, otherwise they wouldn't have recommended it. It's just you.
Also, thank God you don't intend to do any coding. But here's a tip: if you're project coordinator, then you will never finish it - nobody wants to take instructions from you, because, quite frankly, you're a complete dick.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 8:44

Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points
#3 Lisp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Points(disqualified - no valid compilers)
#4 C           5          6     10      9      3      :33 Points
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Points (disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#7 Python  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#8 APL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#9 Forth   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Points
#10SMTalk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)



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Some would ask, how could a perfect God create a universe filled with so much that is evil. They have missed a greater conundrum: why would a perfect God create a universe at all?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 8:45

Lungooege-a    Syntex Iese-a Speed Leebs Boogs Tutel
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme-a 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Pueents
#2 Heskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Pueents
#3 Leesp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Pueents(deesqooeliffied - nu feleed cumpeelers)
#4 C           5          6     10      9      3      :33 Pueents
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Pueents
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Pueents (deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#7 Pythun  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#8 EPL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#9 Furt   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Pueents
#10SMTelk 7       5        4        4       8      :28 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)



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Sume-a vuoold esk, hoo cuoold a perffect Gud creete-a a uneeferse-a feelled veet su mooch thet is ifeel. Bork Bork Bork! Zeey hefe-a meessed a greeter cunoondroom: vhy vuoold a perffect Gud creete-a a uneeferse-a et ell?

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 8:52

SBCL is public domain.
And there's 2 ways of compilation: saving world image and fasls, these are fairly common methods.
If you dislike those 2 methods, use ECL which compiles to C.
There's a lot more compilers/interpreters/implementations than I mentioned, here's the full list:

http://www.cliki.net/Common%20Lisp%20implementation

I'm too lazy to explain how to these basic things, just watch that video, read a good Lisp book and read the implmentation's documentation.

Since you don't plan on coding, why don't you ask those that can?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 8:54

there's 2 ways of compilation: saving world image and fasls,
Do these produce .EXE files or not?



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On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 8:54

zeere's 2 veys ooff cumpeeleshun: sefeeng vurld imege-a und fesls,
Du zeese-a prudooce-a .IXE feeles oor nut? Bork Bork Bork!



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Oon a geefee dey, a geefee curcoomstunce-a, yuoo theenk yuoo hefe-a a leemit. Bork Bork Bork! Und yuoo zeen gu fur thees leemit und yuoo tuooch thees leemit, und yuoo theenk, 'Okey, thees is zee leemit.' Es suun es yuoo tuooch thees leemit, sumetheeng heppens und yuoo sooddenly cun gu a leettle-a beet foorzeer.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 9:02

ECL has no precompiled executables. Expecting to compile compilers is asinine(especially on such project).
(no valid compilers) tag remains.

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Appearance blinds, whereas words reveal.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 9:02

ICL hes nu precumpeeled ixecootebles. Bork Bork Bork! Ixpecteeng tu cumpeele-a cumpeelers is eseenine-a(ispeceeelly oon sooch pruject). Bork Bork Bork!
(nu feleed cumpeelers) teg remeeens. Bork Bork Bork!

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Eppeerunce-a bleends, vherees vurds refeel.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:03

>>315
You want GPL free software on a non-free platform?

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:08

>>315
FASLs are similar to .dll libraries which are loaded by the implementation. They are small and compiled.
Saving world produces a world file with everything in it(executable code). So yes, you do get an executable, however this includes both your code and the implementation in it, so it's large (5-20MB), which is why it's only preferred for deplyment. You can use a tree shaker to remove the unused code, which will bring down the image size considerably, for example a compression utility was 20MB after saving world, and became >100KB after tree shaking.

During development, you might expect to distribute fasl's to testers and a tree-shaken world image for final distribution.
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