>>456
"- You also fail to realize that the chance of the fetus catching the same 'diseases' is slim."
The odds you pointed out (your odds & statistics, not mine) say that it is 1/4 - 1/2 chance, or something like this. I don't call that 'slim.'
"It's also slimmer if the woman has greater access to better pre-natal and post-natal care."
And you can thank the liberals for fucking up market health care years ago for that.
"- So, it's only the woman that matters, what about the man whom has diseases as well?"
Well, the man doesn't have a child inside him that can catch all his diseases, now does he? However, I will *readilly* say that if the man can pass on the diseases as well, I would say he was an irresponsible piece of trash just like the woman.
"The Guttmacher Institute says that most malformations and fetal problems are caused from a man whose sperm is infected or dulled down from drugs/alcohol/smoking. "
That's bad too. Not relevant though. The fact is is that if the woman has health problems that she knows could jeopardize the babies' health, life, well being, or future, and she becomes pregnant knowingly, (essentially gambling with her baby for her own selfish desires) she is an irresponsible selfish bitch in my opinion.
"So..women with health problems are selfish irresponsible bitches for wanting to raise a family..LMAO."
No, not for raising a family, for taking actions that will knowingly put their childrens lives, health, and well being at risk for selfish desires.
If the woman has health problems, there's no reason she can't raise a family in a responsible and compassionate manner - this is a great reason and time to ADOPT.
"It could be any number of things, from weak laws, lack of enforcement, to thinking they won't get caught for breaking them. If you ran a higher risk of getting caught for murder, the murder rate would likely go down.. and it would likely go down *more* if we stiffened the penalties for it."
"- Lamest answer ever. That doesn't attack the root of the problem. I'll ask again. What causes people to make irresponsible choices?"
What causes people to kill people? What causes people to steal? What causes people to break the law? Should murderers be held responsible for their actions? Should anyone be responsible for their actions, or can we just blame it all on their environment, and on society?
Well, since women are supposedly built up from their environments (as the 'environmental determinists' claim), so are murderers. If you were to apply your theory consistently, nobody would be responsible for anything. Face it, you don't want that, you want some degree of accountability. But if you apply accountability as well, it must apply to women as well, and it must be consistent, which you don't seem to want.
"- That still doesn't answer my question when the woman isn't at fault."
Yes it does. Nobody should be getting welfare, period. The whole program should be incrementally removed as quickly as possible.
"I have my money taken against my will as well from income tax, local taxes, and many others taxes. Hell, my taxes probably even support the loonies trying to make contraceptives harder to get."
Sure. And they support gun control, the gun registry, the drug war, NSA spying, etc as well. If you are sick of this, then vote libertarian.
"- Wha-hey. Then let's kick out all the men and women from Congress and other government jurisdictions, they must love the government."
I never said we should do that. Furthermore, many of the people in congress want to fix our government. I think we should just vote out all the liberals, and vote in libertarians. Take people off the dole, and give em back their personal freedoms.
"- No relation to what I have just said."
Well then state your position in more simple terms to avoid misunderstandings.
"- I'm talking about when the child is already here. If the man didn't want to become the father of a child and pay child support he wouldn't have acted 'irresponsible.' "
Wrong. It is not the responsibility of the male to keep women from getting pregnant. This effects them, not men. If women don't want to get pregnant, they need to take responsibility and make sure contraceptives are used.
"But responsibilty is a violation against male human rights, right?"
I never said this. I have no issue with responsibility. You are trying to push the responsibility nature gives to women onto men, however.
"Your attitude toward women is entirely fucked up."
Says she who thinks women should be allowed to use force and violence to violate the rights of employers to their property? I think yours is the fucked up attitude.
"Referring to women as an 'irresponsible bitch' is very telling of the kind of sexually oppressed world you live in."
I didn't refer to *all* women as irresponsible bitches. I said women who do 'insert irresonsible bitchy activity here' are irresponsible bitches. You are took what I said entirely out of context. Way to go!
"You are entirely one-sided to this. I see a lot of men that say that women should take responsibilty for their actions and that abortion should be banned."
Those men are right, more or less.
"The weird thing is that there's no laws that forces men to take any form of responsibilty for their actions that helped produce that unwanted pregnancy."
Actually, there is. Its called child support laws. Not that there should be, however. If the man signs a contract saying he will help raise the child that results from intercourse between him and his girlfriend, *then* he should be held accountable, and be forced to pay child support. The proper function of government is not to redistribute income, or deal with gender inequality, it is to defend life, liberty, and property. That's it.
"But responsibilty is a violation against male human rights, right?"
I never said this.
"What about the 'irresponsible' men whose condomless cocked helped create that pregnancy."
What about the women who let them put their condomless cocks inside their vagina? Did they not know that they would be spewing out babies in another 9 months if they didn't use contraception?
"Men are too busy legislating vaginas"
lol. Give me an example of how men are legislating vaginas.
"and oppressing women whom they say are 'irresponsible' "
If women do something that violates the rights of another, this should be a crime, and they should be punished just like anyone else.
"without attacking the other side of the coin and legislating men's 'irresponsible' penises"
Men don't have a responsibility for unwanted pregnancies. It is the woman's body, and her responsibility to take care of it. If she didn't want herself to become pregnant, she should have used contraceptives, just like if I don't want to get tooth decay, I brush my teeth. They are my teeth, so I have to take care of them, not my girlfriend, right? Ok.. well, it is the woman's body and organs, and if she doesn't want them to react a certain way to a substance she is allowing to be inserted inside her, then she must take the steps necessary to prevent this (using contraceptives, or abstaining.) Men should only be held responsible if they agree before having sex to care for a resulting child. This would be done in the form of a contract.
"(goes to show the kind of patriarchal sexually oppressed world we are in against women)."
Much to my disdain, we *have* child support laws, so I fail to see how, even if you disagree to me, that you would come to that conclusion of yours.
"Mind you, 90% of anti-abortionists are male,"
Prove it.
"but get this, 100% of them will never become pregnant."
100% of those against abortionists will never become pregnant? I doubt that. There are no female abortionists who wish to have kids then?
"This is a direct attack on women's bedside manners and not men's."
No it isn't. Women should not have the right to murder other human lives. Men are not responsible for other people's bodies, just like women.
"It has everything to do with the fact that she can't reproduce on her own."
Redundant. The baby grows inside her, and comes out of her. If she doesn't want this to happen, due to the fact that it is her body, she has to use contraceptives or abstain.
"The man is engaging in a sex where he knows that a baby might be the result."
Yeah - a baby in *her* body, not his. It is not the man's responsibility to prevent an unwanted pregnancy from growing within the woman. It is the *woman's* responsibility to prevent this occurrence in *her* body.
Saying the man is responsible for a baby that comes out of her body when she voluntarilly takes in his sperm by not using contraceptives is like saying the food industry is responsible for shit we poop out after voluntarilly eating their food.
"It's a two-way street. As long as you lazy fucks can't even take responsibilty for yourselves and your actions, you have no right to tell others to to take responsibility."
We have no natural responsibility to kids that grow in women's bodies, thus we aren't evading responsibility, since there was never one to be evaded.
"Why this is so hard for you to understand?"
I was thinking of asking you the same question.
"Now this is the part where you say, "But it's the woman's body, so it's her responsibility!" and we start going through the same shit over and over again."
Well, it is.
"Bullshit. Don't start the same damn loop-de-loop again."
You brought it up again, not me.