Why iraq's people kill soldiers

U.S. and U.K. release iraq's people from suppression.
But iraq's people kill soldiers of U.S. and U.K.
Why?
 
Please teach...

Saddam, though an evil dictator, managed to achieve one thing, he managed to bring relative peace among the various ethnicities of Iraq.
He did this through the barrel of a gun and through force of arms, not unlike the method used by the US and UK recently to introduce democracy.

Thousands of people died in the war, millions exist in a state of martial law with little rights and ruled by an unelected totalitarian regime backed by the US, what has improved?.
The people get sporadic a electricity supply, little petrol, have less food and more invasive policing than ever before but now they are being occupied by foreign powers that broke international law with an excuse that turned out to be a lie while continuing to back Israel in another illegal occupation and crusade all around the Muslim world.

To conclude ask yourself whether the people of Iraq are any less oppressed than they were before. The answer is no. Is the world a safer place with less terrorism? The answer is no.

>>an excuse that turned out to be a lie
Hey, it might not have been a lie, the U.S. government might have just been so stupid that they believed it... wait, how is that better?

>>2
Um, about that whole "relative peace among the various ethnicities of Iraq"... last I heard, he committed (basically) genocide against the Kurds and was quite harsh on the Shitte Muslims.

>>3
Indeed.

Just for note, I am against the war in Iraq.

Shitte Muslims

lol

Hahaha... Shitte... Hahahaha... MORON!

Saddam’s repression and murder of the Kurds stemmed from a revolution that began after the first gulf war, the Kurds, convinced that they would receive American support promised to them in previous years rose up in an attempt to oust Saddam and create an independent Kurdish state.

What happened next, mass murder using chemical weapons supplied to the regime by America to fight the Iranians, was a direct result of the aforementioned uprising and i stand by my point that relative to the state that it is in today, Iraq was peaceful under Saddam.

they are insurgent, not iraqies. they come from across the border because see a golden oportunity to bust some american without being terrorist. maybe if they didnt let thousands of insurgent from fallujah leave before entering the town, it wouldnt be happening on a regular basis.

remember alot of people in that region hates the american. and having them in iraq and makes them look bad is their only reason to live right now. sad people.

That's not true, the though there are many foreign fighters in the insurgents are largely Iraqis of the two major Muslim factions fighting together against what they see as a common enemy.

Fallujah was one stronghold of the insurgency, not the only one, nor the biggest, there are similar no go areas all over Iraq.

And maybe if Bush had a plan to win the peace and not just the war then maybe this situation would be under control.

The reason they let people out of Fallujah, and part of the reason Bush Sr. didn't take Baghdad, is that the outcome would have been ugly.

If you want to beat an enemy you never place them against the wall. They'll have no choice but to fight to the bitter end. People who know they will die are extremely dangerous because they are free to consider options they normally wouldn't.

In other words, once you've bottled them up they won't be fighting to survive, they'll be fighting to kill as many of your troops as they can before the bitter end.

but the us havent beed fightning a bloody war on their part. when there is someone in a house and hes dangerous adn the first try to kill him easy didnt work they just blow everything up with tanks.

ive seen alot of footage from iraq and i love the one where they try to get in a building but the enemy is screaming and throwing grenade and they just call a tank and then show the rumble with bodies.

That may be true to some degree, but that doesn't change that the opponents would still be more dangerous than they usually would be. And frankly, do you think the media is going to portray the not-so-successful forays US troops have? Where do you think they get the footage from?

And thanks for letting us know you enjoy watching people die. While I'm not a pacifist, it disgusts me how people sit in their comfy couches and enjoy the media spectacle on TV. War is a gruesome affair, you shouldn't "love" watching it.

>>2

Excellent answer.

America wonders why it's hated so badly by many people, when its soldiers - who are the only ambassadors of America that these people will see - are pulling off crap like shock and awe bombardment of their capital city and deposing a perfectly stable, if dictatorial, government.

How would you feel if another country, say, Russia went in and bombarded New York for a full night, levelled it, tore down the Statue of Liberty and parked a half-dozen aircraft carriers offshore while they were at it? Now imagine that Russia was ten times more powerful than the USA, and that everyone in America bloody well knew it. That's how many Iraqi people are feeling now. And what's America's response?

It's putting itself further and further into debt by sending in more troops to kill more people. Way to go, government.

>>2
Is the world a safer place with less terrorism? The answer is no.

What? That makes no sense.

Why is that, does terrorism make the world a safer place?

If you cast your mind back to the days of the war, the war was perpetrated to prevent what turned out to be imaginary WMDs falling into terrorists hands, there were even imaginary links to terrorists organisations dreamed up by Rumsfeld and Co to further attempt to justify an unjustifiable war.

Speaking of justification, our paper recently ran an editorial piece written by Bush apoligists who talked about "actionable intelligence" and how if they did it all over again believing Iraq to have WMDs they'd do the exact same thing.  Seems the apologists would like people to forget as quickly as they do that people in the Administration knew the WMD threat was bogus.  (Hard to blame them for forgetting, since the story has changed so many times now.   What was it this month?  Oh yeah, bringing Democracy to Iraq.  If the elections take place.)

Btw, the world WOULD be a safer place with less terrorism, but the million-dollar question is, "is there less terrorism?" and to that, the answer appears to be no.

>>13

Should probably be more like: "Is the world _now_ a safer place with less terrorism? The answer is no."

Many people in Iraq may be nice people, but some Moslem
fundamentalist go to extremes. Their views have a tendency
to swing from one extreme to the other.
To have faith is very important. Most people are not so strong
as to endure every hardship. If we have right faith, we could
make our world more peaceful. But the most regrettable thing
is that there are always wars and battles among religious nations
such as Iraq, Israel and Jordan.
It's very hard to believe why some religious groups are always
fighting and killing a lot of people.
What is worse, they insist that they do so for the sake of God.
Considering such situations, it might be right in saying that
if we believe everything completely a religious group says,
it would be dangerous, and couldn't have right faith.
We have to distinguish between brainwash and right faith.
People in Iraq who can kill innocent people without hesitation
may be brainwashed.

shouldve just nuked em from the start,solve all the problems in a second

Yea that would've taught them not to develop WMDs illegally... Which they didn’t, unlike like Bush and his support of nuclear proliferation (Ie "mini nukes"), a clear violation of the Antiballistic Missile Treaty and a dozen others signed over the duration of the cold war to prevent the world descending into a radioactive wasteland... Idiot.

And couldn't what was said about Muslims in post 17 equally apply to Christians?
Iraq was far more secular than America is today before the war, or more accurately the build up to the war when the government started courting the support of religious fanaticism. And why single out Muslim countries? Over the past thirty years Iraq has been involved in a handful of wars (and similarly Jordan), considerably less than America.

In a sense that's right. I'd better say that why there are
a lot of wars in religious countries. It's hard to believe
us, who live in a non-religious, namely very secular nation.
Could you give some hint? 

This is all well and good, but the real question at this point is how do we get ourselves out of this mess?  At this point, it's all throwing good money (and men) after bad.  On the other hand, we can't exactly just pull everyone out now, or the place will deteriorate into anarchy faster than you can say "WMD."  Any thoughts?

>>21

They're going to pull out after "the vote," wash their hands, then blame the people of iraq for the following descent into anarchy.

>>20

Even in non-religious countries, there can be war over politics, or race, or anything else. The only people who won't go to war are people who feel entirely safe and have no motive to go to war. America was looking good right up until 9/11 hit and everyone panicked.

In general people go to war in order to protect themselves. Many people think attack is the best form of defense.

Religion just served as an excuse for many wars. If religion hadn't been used they would have come up with something else in its stead.

>>25

Anything else wouldn't be nearly as effective at galvanizing people to support 'teh cause.'

I was reading about a book dealing with the Yugoslavian affair and the war in Kosovo and such. One thing the book mentions was allowing the country to be split up never occured to them. One way to (maybie) solve this is allow Iraq to dissolve into three states. Thatway the differing factions are satisfied. Of course, there are the technicalities and realities of doing this. We are all just armchair politicians anyway.

>>26
That's naive, IMO.

>>2

The only way Saddam brought peace to all the sects of Islam in Iraq was by killing almost all but his own. I mean, shit do you know how he came to power? He walked into a government meating and started calling out names of people and took them into the back and shot them, then he told everyone else in the room that they would follow him or be killed. Then there was all the Genocide and murders his regieme committed. Hey, do you remember something called the Gulf War, do you remember what he was doing there?

Anyway my point is that Saddam was a bad man, verry bad man, i hope they kill him. However the people following him and attacking soldiers and Iraqi police forces in Iraq do so because their Mosque leaders tell them to do so, and their Mosque leaders are angry that they arent getting the same Suni benefits that they got under the saddam regeim.

Now i will begin to sound a little racist. But Islam is a violent religion, its roots are violent, its practices are sometimes violent, but more than all, the majority of its followers in the middle east are uneducated (in anything else but the Koran) and ULTRA VIOLENT.

Believe it or not the internet has more uses than compiling compilations of pornography, though this fact has obviously passed you buy judging by your abject stupidity and inability to grasp even the most basic understanding of Iraqi history.

Saddam killed his opponents with out prejudice, even "his own" as you so tactfully put it.

Saddams father dies when he was young and his mother remarried, by the time Saddam moved to Baghdad with his brother he was known for his viciousness. He tutored in reading and writing by a man named Khayrallah who had been expelled from the Iraqi army for supporting a "Pro-Nazi" coup attempt that failed. Khayrallah's bitterness towards the British and imperialism, soon was transferred to Saddam. 
In 1956, he participated in a non-successful coup attempt against the monarchy of King Faisal II. In 1957, he joined the Baath party, a radical nationalist movement. In 1958, a non-Baathist group of army officers led by General Abdul Qassim succeeded in overthrowing the King.
In 1959, Saddam and a group of Baathist supporters attempted to assassinate Gen. Qassim by a day-light machine-gun attack. The attack was unsuccessful, but it helped to place Hussein in a leadership position in the Baathist movement and furthered the process of nationalist political indoctrination. After the attack he fled to Syria and from syria to Egypt.

In 1963, a group of Baathist army officers tortured and assassinated General Qassim.
Hussein rose quickly through the ranks, due to his extreme efficiency as a torturer. The Baathist party split in 1963 and Saddam had supported the "winner" in the latest party struggle. He was appointed by Michel Aflaq to be a member of the Baath Regional Command and then deputy Secretary-General of the Baathists in 1966. Hussein then set up a Baathist internal party security system known as the Jihaz Haneen.

In 1968, another major upheaval in Iraq gave Hussein the greatest opportunity for further advancement; his mentor, Gen. Bakr and the Baathist seized the government. Hussein was made Deputy Chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council, in charge of internal security.

He spent the next ten years raising through the ranks untill he aquired what was the equivelent of the second in command of the baathist party

On July 16, 1979, President Bakr resigned, officially due to health problems, but in reality a victim of Hussein's political in-fighting. Moving quickly to consolidate his power, he called a major Baathist meeting on July 22, 1979. During the meeting, various family members and other Hussein devotees urged that the party be "cleansed". Hussein then read a list of names and asked that they step outside. Once there, they are taken into custody. A high-ranking member of the Revolutionary Command, the head of the labor unions, the leading Shiite member of the Command, and twenty (20) others are then systematically and personally killed by Hussein and his top party officials. During the next few days, reports indicate that as many as 450 other military officers, deputy prime ministers, and "non-party faithful" were rounded up and killed. This purge insured Hussein's consolidation of power in Iraq.

In 1980, Iraq, supported by the Americans, invaded Iran and conducted an eight year war against one of his nearest neighbors and the home of Shiite fundamentalist Muslims and the Kurds (Iraqi minority) were sprayed with poison gas (Supplied by America) for participating with the Iranians in an attempted overthrow of his country.

In 1988, after millions being killed, Iraq and Iran conduct a cease-fire and ended the bloodshed

Even the war against Iran didn't end the peoples support for Hussein, although some small protests did dampen the population's support for the conflict with Iran. Ultimately however, the war with Iran only strengthened Hussein's resolve and, in some eyes, causes him to become a "hero" of Arab nationalism. This brings us to the chapter of Hussein's life that has not been thoroughly researched and written. It involves the 1990, summer invasion of Kuwait over a dispute about oil prices and political control of the Persian Gulf. The subsequent United Nation Resolutions and UN intervention in the defense of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other nearby countries will undoubtedly impact on the history of Saddam Hussein.

Saddam put down his opponents with a ferocity that was rarely matched in the 20th century, but that was just that, there was no genocide, because genocide by definition needs to be based on some kind of preexisting prejudice.

And so what Saddam was a bad man, in my opinion, G W is a bad man in mine, and the kangaroo court set out to try him has little intention to spare his life and little other point than to justify his murder in the eyes of the wider international community, but to suggest that the people are fighting because of their religion is based on the ignorance that many come to expect from Americans, in their eyes they are fighting against an occupying, imperialist army which has brought nothing but death and chaos to Iraq and has left the country in worse shape than it was before the invasion.

And btw you are not only a racist but an ignorant racist, couldn't everything you just said about Islam in the middle east also apply to Christianity in America?

Oh, one last point, Geographic this time Korea isn't in the Middle East. GO BACK TO SCHOOL.

Aborn!

Could someone delete one of these entries, my browser was screwing around an i accidentally posted the same reply twice.

Oh and i must appologise, i read "Koran" as "Korea", so please disregard the last line.

KORAN EAT CAT

Islam in a pure form is about as peaceful as christianity.

lol pure form

>>34 speaks the truth.  All the shit about "Jihad" is actually based on very ambiguous scriptures.  The Qu'ran is constantly exploited by pseudo-militiants to push their personal agendas, much like the bible is by televangelists here in USA.

The problem lies in the people, not the religion.

The US didn't really invade Iraq for WMD or because Saddam was evil, or even for oil.  The first two reasons were only important because they gave a politically plausable excuse to invade.  Everyone knows that despite the vast oil wealth, the political and economic costs of a war to secure the resources would not be worthwhile, so long as OPEC operates at a reasonable market level, which they do.

The first two reasons...  of course Saddam is an evil bastard.  His human rights are almost as bad as Stalin or Hitler's.  Not very well liked.  Everyone knows he WANTED WMDs.  He didn't ever really have any.  If he did, Israel would have blown him up before he could bring them online.  (As they did in the '80s to a breeder reactor France gave him)  We did think we would find SOMETHING there we could point to, and were a bit surprised there was really nothing substantial.

We really invaded though to create a staging area in the middle east, and more importantly, to change Saudi Arabia's policy against Al-Qaeda recruitment and support.  Even after September 11th, Al-Qaeda continued to receive most of its money and personnell from Saudi Arabia, and the house of Saud couldn't really do anything about it, even though the US was pressuring them so much to stop.  So we took Iraq.  Now we have a bunch of tanks across from Saudi Arabia's border.  We're showing we're not afraid to bleed in a war (thanks to Bush's unilateralism and ignoring his populace, or whatever)  Our public opinion has always always been a problem, and been the only way to defeat us...  Well, I think that's a digression at thsi point.

A bunch of tanks across Saudi's Border.  Showed how much our military abilities have improved.  Our ability to launch quick wars (though that's more applicable to Afghanistan, where 'our' is in questionable).  Our ability to launch wars without access to Saudi ports, or significant support from neighboring countries (Though Iran has been helpful several times in the war on terror)

It wasn't even a unilateral war.  It just looked like it.  There wasn't the Middle-eastern support of the first war, but they think we're inept weaklings after Desert Storm and Afghanistan.    We had the support of most european states.  France, Germany, and Russia oppose our actions in Iraq because it will increase our power in the area.  So of course they oppose anything we're going to do there.  The other european nations fear France, Germany, and Russian dominance, so they actually ran away from the proposed alliance against us.  "In the end, the only countries siding with France, Germany, and Russia were Belgium, Sweden, Greece, and Belarus."  Don't forget about Poland, indeed.

So how is taking over Iraq going to convince the Saudis to crack down on support for Al-Qaeda?  Well, mostly it is the threat of flooding the world market with Iraqi oil, making the Saudi economy (hurting for the last decade) totally tank.  The threat of a possibly hostile American miltary across the border is not insignificant, but we're better behaved if we get our way.  Al-Qaeda HATES the US.  They know how to escape from our intelligence services.  They don't even fear our attacks because we've haven't shown any ability to endure casualties in a war since Korea.  The US invaded Iraq in their OWN interest to stop Al-Qaeda and demonstrate our military resolve and power to a middle-east that HATES us.  They're going to hate us no matter what we do.  With an american military presence in Iraq, they at least fear our ability to launch meaningful reprisals against them.  (Both Al-Qaeda and countries that support them)

And about Shock and Awe...  That was for our media more than Iraq.  The bombing and air-war in Iraq was much less significant than in Desert Storm.  In the intervening decade, they had not been able to significantly rebuild any targets we cared to bomb.

This is all really just me paraphrasing George Friedman's _America's Secret War_

It is Japanese kc.
One terrorist's person
The soldier of the U.S.-Britain army so that murdered man's family
and friend may dispel hatred and the grudge by the mistaken fire and
the friendly fire, etc. as for the badness of anything though it
doesn't do
It is likely to kill.

Let's go watch more Gundam SEED!

USA and UK didn't liberate Iraq. Why do Iraqis fight against USA and UK troops? >>12 said it best.

If a foreign country comes and attacks your country and kills your people, would you just let them destroy what you are? The fighters are defending their country.

>>40

Vae victis.

>>37

Because giving islamic extremists a valid reason to hate the US is a surefire way to end terrorism.

To Islamic extremists, the fact that someone else is not an Islamic extremist is "a valid reason to hate."  What "valid reason" did Nigeria's animists give to the Islamofascists for carrying out their ongoing Final Solution?  What "valid reason" have the Hindus in Kashmir given the Islamofascists for attempting to exterminate them?

Islam is a terrorist ideology.  Sooner or later the civilized world is going to have to accept this, and deal with the problem--at scale.  The die is cast.  The conclusion is foregone.  The last remaining question question is whether the West is going to allow the problem to fester until the Islamofascists use weapons of mass destruction against Western cities before we take off the kid gloves and get serious.

Islam is a Bronze Age meme and it's a losing hand to play in the 21st Century.  A few of the brighter diaperheads have figured this out, but none of their people are listening to them.  A war of box cutters versus nuclear weapons looms on the horizon.  Anyone want to place any bets on how long it'll be before Mecca and Medina are radioactive craters?

>All religions are terrorist ideologies.

Fixed.

Name five people killed in the last hundred years by Christian or Hindu suicide bombers, and I'll accept that claim.

sri lanka

the arabs feel left out

they were the height of culture in the 8th century, the most enlightened and scientific, they invented our numerical system remember

they took a drastic turn towards fundamentalism once they were "exposed" to competing cultures and world views

its a shame really, they had some great minds... who knows what they could have accomplished had they remained progressive

dictatorial oil states passed down the family lines dont help either, this translates into a well-funded welfare state for the populace.. it breeds apathy and resentment

fundamentalist clerics have no problem finding people willing to die for their causes by this late stage

>>45

How many people each year are murdered because 'god' told someone to kill them?  Name one white supremist group who doesn't base their rhetoric even loosely upon the bible.

Now, if you had left out 'christian or' you would have not only negated an arugment, but given everyone a funny image of hinduists blowing themselves up with the powers of yoga.

>>48
...so, in other words, you can't name five?

Name one Palestinian Christian suicide bomber who's killed people in Israel since 1970.  Just one will do.

Islam is a terrorist ideology.  It's not that Christianity isn't equally preposterous, it's that Islam is preposterous and dangerous.  Islam is the problem.  The sooner the West recognizes this, the better off we will be.

The Prophet Muhammad said, 'Do not kill women or children or non-combatants and do not kill old people or religious people,' and he went on to mention priests, nuns and rabbis, pretty radical thinking for a "Bronze Age meme" wouldn't you agree?

The problem is not with Islam as a faith but with the perception of Islam it in the West and the interpretation of it in the Middle East. It is, ironically, differing consequences of the same problem, namely ignorance.
Our brave anonymous bigot is obviously a victim of this, i noticed none of your posts have contained quotes from the actual Koran, he is simply relying on propaganda and pseudo-intellectual analysis of dry, unrepresentative statistics and issues far too complex to lend themselves to such characterless and meaningless number crunching.

The preposterous challenge of finding a Palestinian Christian suicide bomber inside a state with only a tiny Christian majority is indicative of both the posters ignorance of Islam and the world as a whole and the child of a tiny mind.
So as an equally ridiculous counter challenge i challenge you to name an American Muslim suicide bomber.

The bombings and attacks in Israel could easily be compared to the Christian/Muslim riots in India, Indonesia or half a dozen more religious hot spots around the world, especially Africa. These acts are instigated by both Christians and Muslims, example of these crimes include a riot in which a family of five, including young children was burnt to death in their car by a Christian mob and the LRA or Lords resistance army which is known for their systematic rape and kidnap of children in the name of Jesus.

Personally i'm an atheist and i love nothing more than seeing various religious parties smacking the shit out of one another over something as childish as whose god is best while making bigots of themselves in the process, but one thing i hate is ignorance, and this topic tends to reek of it.

islam is fairly rigid, even from an impartial reading of the koran

but the particular fundamentalist sects that interpret the koran to their liking and make up insane rules are the danger

the wahab sect from saudi arabia is actually the most anti-"other"(western) than even the shiites in iraq

wahabis are well funded and connected, they setup school around the islamic world in which they teach wahabi interpertations of islam, this indoctrinates/brainwashes the various local populations with wahabism and radicalizes them

then there is the element of 'king of the hill' america is still the largest superpower in the world, naturally everyone hates the one on top

if i wasnt american, i'd probably hate america... for the simple fact that i would not be amiercan. psyhchologically it is related to envy, technically they argue we have the most responsibility.. so if we dont use our power wisely(ie exactly how they want) we are irrationally evil and probably out to get them next

but they are the irrational, this middle east thing was going to happen sooner or later.. not only did american funds prop up the last remaining dictatorships on earth but also german, russian, french funds

watch iran carefully, their oil exports to china are very large

this could be the real world war 3, an absolute resource war between consumers(america china) vs. producers (iraq iran north africa)
no nukes will fly probably, just some conventional wars by proxy... and the usual economic/political maneuverings like goes on with us-eu policy

but thats for later.. for now china is best friends economically, china is buying us debt with their slave labor profits to cement their footing in the world, and the us really uses that credit card

america makes 11 trillion a year, each year there is another 11trillion... they assume they can outspend by a trillion or so, just make up the balance later... but china gets the interest hoho

Ignorance, you say?

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." (Sura 9:73)

"Those who reject Faith fight in the cause of Evil. So fight ye against the friends of Satan." (Sura 4:76)

"Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war." (Sura 9:5)

Islam is a genocidal ideology, no better than Nazism, and equally at war with Western civilization.

>>52
JIHAD ON WALLMART!!! ALLALALALLALALALALLALALALAL

>>45
>>49
christianity never needed suicide bombers ever since Rome adopted it

>>1

Because it's fun.

DEY HETS US CUZ WE IZ FREE

>>52, read the bible some day.

Yes ignorance, any monkey can lift select passeges from Religious dogma and use them with out their context to support and justify their predudices.
This contradictory ignorance, that being the concept that someone thinks themselves more intellegent because they can use one of the many internet quote searches an use them to decry a subject is used against everything from Islam to homosexuality.

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst."   (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

  "As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace.  If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.  But these instructions apply only to distant towns, not to the towns of nations nearby.  "As for the towns of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as a special possession, destroy every living thing in them.  You must completely destroy the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, just as the LORD your God has commanded you.  This will keep the people of the land from teaching you their detestable customs in the worship of their gods, which would cause you to sin deeply against the LORD your God."      Deuteronomy 20:10-18 NLT

"During this period, Joshua destroyed all the descendants of Anak, who lived in the hill country of Hebron, Debir, Anab, and the entire hill country of Judah and Israel.  He killed them all and completely destroyed their towns.  Not one was left in all the land of Israel, though some still remained in Gaza, Gath, and Ashdod.  So Joshua took control of the entire land, just as the LORD had instructed Moses.  He gave it to the people of Israel as their special possession, dividing the land among the tribes.  So the land finally had rest from war."   (Joshua 11:21-23 NLT)

"In that day those the LORD has slaughtered will fill the earth from one end to the other.  No one will mourn for them or gather up their bodies to bury them.  They will be scattered like dung on the ground."   (Jeremiah 25:33 NLT)

O my G0dzz! teh bible is EEEEEVAL!!!

Ah, but the difference is that European Christianity went through the Reformation and then the Renaissance, and had most of the worst of the stupidity beaten out of it, at least to the point where it's mostly no longer displayed in public.

The Arab world, on the other hand, is still mostly stuck in the Iron Age.  And no, I do not view the acts of groups like Al-Qaeda as isolated incidents carried out by a tiny handful of malcontents, not when every time they do this, five hundred million Moslems burn American flags and dance in the streets from Casablanca to Cairo to Tehran to Lahore to Jakarta--if that isn't a declaration of war, what is it?  In any case, there is no Reformation or Renaissance on the horizon for them, and I think it is far too late.  As I said, the die is cast, and sooner or later the world is going to see an object lesson on the unwisdom of provoking a nuclear superpower.  The only question remaining is whether it's going to happen before the Iranians get the bomb and finish Osama's attempt to destroy New York City, or afterwards.  Either way, I have no pity left for inbred IQ-80 Iron Age throwbacks who aren't content to keep their disgusting backward ways to themselves.  They are cavemen with AK-47s, and they have no right to whine when the rules of engagement they so enthusiastically chose are used against them.

They have sown the wind, and they will reap the whirlwind.

How can you be so juvenile as to label and generalize an entire race of people?

Your arrogance is quite astounding, are you an American per chance?

Do you realise just how much medaling America and the west has done in the Middle East?
America has fought two wars in four years, both against enemies armed and used to fight America's own enemies in the past, that says alot and of course going into Iran would be no exception, apart from they were armed in a seriously dodgy deal via the CIA.
America is and has always been the aggressor in the Middle East, its medaling in the affairs of other nations around the world has resulted in the recent upsurge of hatred, to put it plainly it is totally the fault of successive administrations that the world trade center was destroyed.

As for reaping the whirlwind, American is isolated and over stretched, it is drowning in debt and has a permanent underclass with facilities including healthcare and welfare far worse for the poorest citizen in America than those of many Arab countries, including Libya, which has a lower infant mortality rate than downtown Detroit.

Finally Christianity was dragged kicking and screaming through the major advancements in science throughout history from Darwinism to the heliocentric theory, it is no coincidence that to this day while only eight percent of the population of the world are atheists ninety percent of scientists consider themselves to be atheists or agnostics so stop clinging to this false notion of Christian superiority.

>>58
your statement evidences a truly misguided premise, the vast majority of muslims are just normal people who want better for their families and wish no one harm

but your conclusion is pretty much accurate, the fundamentalist radicals must all be killed in the same way they kill. there is no reasoning with a die hard radical _of any faith_. if their goal is to destroy you, you must destroy them first. the light at the end of the tunnel is that fundamentalism is learned.. the first fresh generation of muslims, educted properly in the secular realm, will appreciate their freedom just like anyone else..

>>59
OHNO AMERICANS!!!!!!
its ok, dont be scared...
and america hasn't been the only one meddling in the middle east , military action aside.. this whole thing is about the viability of switching oil from dollar to euro denomination, watch the currency markets carefully

there is a subtext of economic war in all middle eastern affairs.. in which the germans/frech(eu) have as active and as "meddling" a part as the other superpowers do(russia china usa)

>>59  Libya, which has a lower infant mortality rate than downtown Detroit.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  Sure it does.  Comrade Qaddafi's Ministry of Truth says so.

>>60
"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about how hard it is, he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home. He knows only The Cause."

>>62
i am not afraid

Awww... You Americans bless ya, i'm sure you don't like being generalized do you? Then perhaps we should all stop using generalization about the Middle East.

And so says the the world health organization 61, not that you know what that is.

It is true that The Europeans have been interfering in the Middle East since Britain’s aid to the Ottoman Empire, this interference intensified further at the turn of the century, but then died down after the Second World War, but of course this is all history.
However America still fuel virtually all terrorist acts in the Arab world by their unilateral support for Israel and the less than enlightened Saudis, not to mention the billion dollars worth of arms they supply each year.

Ah, yes.  Blame Israel.  The US should reward terrorists by abandoning our only ally in the Middle East, and one of only five or six allies this country has had since World War II that are more than just dead weight, to people whose stated intent is to "drive the Jews into the sea," i.e., total extermination, to the last man, woman, and child.

Reward terrorists and you guarantee that it will never, ever, ever stop.  Show terrorists that they can get what they want by killing Americans and you guarantee that no American will ever be safe, anywhere on Earth, again.

Islam is a terrorist ideology.

And yes, Christianity is as preposterous and ridiculous as Islam, but no Popes have called for the total extermination of all non-Christians lately.  The difference between Christianity and Islam is the difference between influenza and ebola.  Both are unpleasant and debilitating, but one is lethal.

>>65
Lessons in history please. They weren't always like that.

Israel is a spark-point, and the problem does not seem to be going away. And why do you think the Arabs hate the US? Hey, they could all be our allies! Whee! Who woulda thunk?

I don't begrudge Israel the right to exist, but neither side in the conflict over there is helping. Perhaps letting themselves jihad and nuke themselves to death would spare the rest of us pain. They'll have to learn how to live in peace.

>>66
They've been like that since the Eighth Century.  They're still pissed off that the Spanish dared to throw off the Moslem yoke and reconquer their lands five centuries ago.  They're still outraged that Charles the Hammer defeated their invading armies at Tours in 711 AD.

They have never stopped hating us, and will never stop hating us.  There is no point in trying to appease people who think that refusing to cut off your eight-year-old daughter's clitoris with a broken Coca-Cola bottle and sew up her vagina with an old shoelace is blasphemy.

>>67
Hahaha. Nice try.

>>68
I'm glad you find clitoridectomies and infibulation to be amusing.

>>69
On the contrary. Your vibrant and inspiring hyperbole, masterful google skills, excellent displacement, and brilliant false dichotomies will be forever remembered. Encore I say!

>>70
Your surrender is noted.

Neener, neener.

Now stop bumping this shit already.

Request denied.  As Dubya says, bring it on.

I never knew Dubya was in the WWF.

>>73
Its easier to troll when you're not obivously trolling ya know.

>>50
The Middle East has historically been predominately Muslem, with about %20 religous minorities.  Why should that be different in the Holy Land?  If it's all about displaced land, then yes, some Christians should be blowning people to wherever as well.

Islam has something to do with it.  You can't bring up the "Christians Were Bad Too" card because this is the precent, and they aren't bombing people for God like they are.

>>59
Doctors are typically theists to some extent, and they deal with life and death on a regular basis.

Now Saddam(Nasser-wannabe), yeah we supported him by giving him satellite picture, but it Russia was selling him and Iran the weapons.  That and everyone but Syria was against Iran, so what, isn't the US supposed to be Middle East friendly?

>>76
iran-contra was a war by proxy between superpowers.... russia only supplied one of the sides, the other side was america's proxy

similar to how vietnam was a proxy war, and again in afghanistan in the 80s(russia's "vietnam")

iraq is not a proxy war directly, though the eu and china are now closely watching their middle eastern oil assets(they are inadvertently on the other side of the proxy war model as a result of a superpower vacuum... it is no longer bi-polar as with the "cold" war ie. post-wwii/pre-911)

any time large scale wars are on... all superpowers have some level of interest in the re-shuffling of assets, eu(germany/france) china japan russia currently

My dad, who has actually been over in Iraq this last year, told me most of the people are glad to have us. The people who are still fighting are people who hate us and love Saddam. If Iraq becomes a democracy, they will lose their power. Therefore, they try to kill us.

>>78

your dad is a retard who believes what the DoD tells him to. Muslims, especially the arabs, all hate america. Even the muslims living in america just want the wealth, but hate the "decadence" and lack of oppression of other faiths and women.

Its totally a backwards muslim world vs. modern west issue in iraq.

>>79
the radical religious muslims do mostly hate the west, but secularized muslims just want better for their families and mean no one any harm... like any other secular people

i'm white, 3rd generation american.. my grandfather came over from germany in like 1895..
i hate the "decadence" of america too. it desensitizes everything. everything. its a function of shameless massmedia whoring blasting psychologically focus-group tested advertisements in your face non. stop.
each year getting cheaper and sluttier... its abjectly revolting by anyone's standards

americas problem is it commoditizes everything, sex = $$$, hamburgers = $$$, anniversary rings = $$$, laundry detergent = $$$

eventually you get sick of all the whoring. but i still love the freedom... and the opportunity, so whatever

wouldnt trade my american passport for anything...  the hate from secular non-americans is mostly resentment based on envy
the hate from radical religious muslims is just insane jihad... so we gotta kill them before they kill us, no reasoning with that kind of hate, just have to educate their kids properly the next time around

>opportunity, so whatever
Your post should have ended there.  Before you typed that last paragraph you basically said you understood why people hate america.  Then you ran off to say they're wrong for it.

There is fighting in iraq because no one wants to be the next America.  Hell, not even America wants to be America. (am I even spelling that right? It looks so alien now...) Democracy = McDonalds and sex shops on every corner as far as they're concerned. And shit, It looks like they're right.

>>81
whatever country youre from has succumbed to the same force

its called global capitalism, even chinas doing it.... it is no longer unique to america

choke on it, america does it best and strongest and therefore here is where i will stay... irrespective of your bitching. further i will be proud of capitalism's  originating nationstate, we won. communism lost. play our game or lose by default

>>82
typical clueless american prick

Hah. America is drowning in debt and the worth of it's currency is resting on the value of lead... you've sold everything to foreigners, you think you are rich because you spend, because your houses appreciate in price(not value!)... it's all fake wealth. You're depending on the kindness of strangers.

lol i love trolling angry euros >>81 >>83 >>84

americas debt is wholly manageable, it is a fractional percent of an 11 trillion dollar per year gdp.... 500 billion here, 500 billion there... it is nothing in context. 2 trillion is the largest estimate of cumulative debt... and still, it is nothing in the context of 11 trillion in inflows EVERY YEAR

china NEEDS america to legitimize itself. the bonds they buy from america out of 'kindness' are essential to their economy. america is integral to global trade, europe can not replace america. the dollar is low on purpose, it is a controlled strategic devaluation. the euro-zone can barely export anything anymore with its artificially overvalued euro... they want the dollar to get stronger relative to the euro but the fed is keeping it low artificially. the american consumer can do what it wants with houses and so forth, they are not a government structure

>>85 "america isn't floundering, its all part of a PLAN"

...

>>85
america can handle the magnitude of the current issues with barely any deviation from the plan: leading the world to democracy through any means(including viral capitalism)

the cause of democracy is noble regardless. if a publicly elected government combined with a free press and a general culture of freedom existed in the rest of the world... there would be no terrorism, issues of critical dissent would be learned from and remedied internally

capitalism gets democracy through the door by exploiting the legitimacy offered via legal opportunity to the prevailing consolidated powers in <name your region>

if the packaged product of 'capitalist democracy w/ free press' is what it takes to sell democracy to the entire world. more power to it. it is a self critical system and the entire world would benefit from the freedom and modernization that it allows

>>87 "there would be no terrorism, issues of critical dissent would be learned from and remedied internally "

Yea, and things like racism would end as well. So would hunger and poverty.

...

Sorry, people will always disagree with the majority. People will always disagree strongly enough to blow shit up.  They'll be braned as terrorists while they call themselves whatever they want.  Now, throw any insecure desperately self-perserving religion into the mix (read: any religion) and people will start thinking god's on their side.   These people will tell other people god's on their side.  Thus, more terrorism.

Terrorism is an abstract concept used to describe suprise geurilla warfare against military and non-military targets by a force of no set nationality.  It has no set cause or goal.  Its not something that can be ended. 

I was gonna post a pointless sage about the evil and all, but then again, post numero 2 and 33 said it all. eod.

Christianity started off with the golden rule and love thy neighbor.  Now it's all about gettin' the cash and telling everybody to look the other way while Father O'Malley diddles the choirboys.

Islam is supposed to be a "religion of peace", but instead after a long hard day of bombing the fuck out of people it's followes come home and stone their wives to death (AFTER cutting off their clitorii of course)

What the fuck happened?

>>1

It's plain and simple:

72% are glad we are there, support democracy, and don't fear terrorists. My dad is a soldier in the National Guard and he has been there. Not one civilian was not glad to see him.

The other 28% is composed of two groups:
1. Terrorists who love Saddam and hate America simply because we don't force everyone here to follow Islam. These are the people who attack us. What's sad is they also go after American civilians (And sometimes their fellow Iraqi civilians)
2. People who are glad America is there, but are still afraid of the terrorists.

>>15 the Administration knew the WMD threat was bogus.

WTF? That is total bullshit. Question for you: Why can't we trust our own intellegence agents but we can trust bias liberal propaganda?

We knew they had wmd, what we didnt know was they got rid of it somehow. If the wmd threat wasnt real, it was well invented since most everyone believed in it.
Not to mention alot of people in high places wanted saddam gone for many reasons. If you dont believe wmd then choose another one. oil for food, genocide, threatening his neighbors, nuclear aspirations, being a 1st class dick, pick whichever you want.
One wasnt real? whoops...

I dont think the UN can justify its lack of action because a US lead war didnt turn out 100% ideally. Few wars are started for as good a reason or come to a conclusion as smoothly.

>>93
So, when did he destroy it?

If he had destroyed it before intelligence came in, intelligence would have said there was no WMD. What about after? Sure... Iraq is going to be invaded, so he (somehow) destroyed a large pile of weapons that would have been useful.

Right.

As for a smooth conclusion - you must have your head in a gutter (or Fox). Guerilla warfare isn't 'smooth' or 'concluded'.

>>92
The word you're looking for is groupthink. Hello uneducated.

Question for you: Why can't we trust our own intellegence agents but we can trust bias liberal propaganda?

When the "liberal propaganda" was 100% right and the intelligence was 100% wrong, we've got a problem.

oil for food

Most overblown "scandal" ever. Saddam was getting 10 times more money by smuggling that got wink-wink-nod-nod approval from the US government.

genocide

Most halfassed "genocide" in history, then. Saddam ruled Iraq for twice as long as Hitler ruled Germany, but he barely put a dent in the Kurdish and Shiite populations.

threatening his neighbors

When, 1991? We dealt with that already.

nuclear aspirations

I know there's only one letter difference, but Iraq is not Iran. Iraq had NO nuclear program at any time after 1991.

>being a 1st class dick

Then you need to be invaded next, if that's agood reason.

I dont think the UN can justify its lack of action because a US lead war didnt turn out 100% ideally.

No, the UN can justify its lack of action because there was no valid reason for the US invasion beyond "Dubya wanted to".

Few wars are started for as good a reason

LMAO. There was no good reason for this war.

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>>97
>>98
gb2/4-ch/

100GET

>>99

I am pretty sure they are from ex10.2ch.net lol

because people who were in power before the invasion want it back and are doing whatever they can, using whatever influence they can muster, to get it back. how hard is it to see that? "Iraqi people" just like "american people" can be as split about the occupation as  any body of diverse ethinicity/tribal history can get-- there is no unifided "iraqi people" unified people is an illusion in any country.

The onley reason they kill is becaous they are not humans. They are muslims they have left there humanatey for a lie witch will destroy it self.

>>103

Please raise America's average IQ by leaving the country forever.

>> 102
Actually, Baath is defunct. You need to read up a little on the cultural background of the Middle East.

It is really because :
it is every Fundamentalist Muslims' dream to remove arab borders and have a single unified Islamic state. These borders were only formed by the european powers in a caretaking capacity in the early 20th century.

The Religious and Powerful across the Middle East recruit and equip young idealistic men to fight and die in the name of an undivided, single, worshipping mass.

Of course many people of these countries (Iran, Iraq, Lebanon) are rather westernised and would rather be free than live under Sharia law. Who wouldn't?

But in a situation where the Mujhedeen are making life a load of shit, people will turn to the first thing that offers stability  - even if that means makeing a deal with the devil - in this case whatever local powerful religious figure that pops up and promises a stable life in exchange for votes.

Great innit?

The fighters in Iraq arent even from Iraq. They are from Iran and Saudi Arabia. They arent trying to give freedom to Iraq they are trying to kill the emerging Democracy there that opposes their Islamic nature.

OMAERA WAROSU wwwwwwwwueuewwwwwwww

to quote Immortal Technique, capatalism and democracy are not synonomous.

It has been discovered that many people in Iraq that are attacking US Armymen are not from Iraq but from Iran...

Holy fuck, talk about resurrecting a thread...

HAY GUYS 111get!

fuck, I forgot world doesn't save my name in cookies. faild.

>>108
A LIE WAS TOLD

29 Dec 2005 GET

>>76

Oh but Christians are bombing for God. If not outright at abortion clinics they do so psychologically in American culture.

>>37

Truth is 100% told and while I personally agree with spreading Modernism (A global modernism which will lead to America's eventual non-relevance in world affairs) I don't know if the ends justify the means.

I also think that America making itself synomious with Modernism/Capitalism/Etc might serve America's interest in that it de-stablizes other non-Christian cultures and makes them hate the idea of Modernism itself. So that's it's seen as something alien and apart of an invading culture.

I mean, sure, show these people democracy and modernism...but you can't force them operate "The American Way". And yes, it's percieved like this because we didn't go in there with the world backing us up. We went, basically solo. 

>>108
|capatalism and democracy are not compatible.

Fixed.

CAPATALISM IS EVAL

Capitalism is good, becuase it is the balance of yin and yang, socialism and communism.
Balance is good.

>>119 better be joking.

>>34
islam in a pure form is as peaceful as a crazed warmonger practicing genocides for fun, before coming back to his cave to rape his preteen harem and order that dogs are evil and must be killed.

>>119
Balance is superstition. You are either logical or you are not. All these ass wads running around saying "EVERYTHING IS A GREY AREA!!!1 NOTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE" are all fucktards, don't listen to them, they are trying to mongle your mind so you believe in their fallacious beliefs.

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