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Observation:

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-26 22:54

OpenAL kind of sucks.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-26 23:31

>>1
EXPERT UBANTO/PULSEAUDIO USER

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 0:07

Is this the random observations thread? Because gvim's .xpm support kind of took me by surprise recently.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 0:15

>>2
Holy shit have you ever got me wrong. I wouldn't ever use either of those.

>>3
You can if you want. My intentions were restricted to OpenAL, but I don't mind a hijack.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 2:06

>>4
but I don't mind a hijack.
Okay then. This thread is now about expressing your inner rage against PulseAudio.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 2:09

Audio will be phased out by 2014.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 3:54

>>6
Not while I still have my ears it won't!

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 4:21

I recall in the DOS days, many various sound systems struggling to reach dominance. It was much worse than Lunix and you could crash often with the slightest reason.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 4:32

>>8
i have a DOS system here that i use for some old games (most of which have sound)... my current uptime is over 7 years.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 4:52

>>9
way to needlessly consume the world's power resources

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 6:01

>>9
just use dosbox bitch.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 8:54

>>5
Yeah, PulseAudio is much worse. I can see someone shipping OpenAL for all its problems, but not PulseAudio. Yet they do.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 11:47

Random Obersations: hg rules!

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 11:50

>>12
Stop using Ubuntu. Problem solved.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 11:55

>>14
Listen here, jerkface.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 12:19

>>12
Apples to Oranges.
OpenAL can't stream audio over the network, handle bluetooth gadgets and usb sound cards with zero configuration.
That said I'd like Lennart to fix my volume slider he broke.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 13:24

>>6
Only with tone differences of like 1pHz, though.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 14:05

>>16
You misunderstand. I wasn't comparing OpenAL to PulseAudio as a product, I was comparing their sins. But you did highlight the problem with OpenAL:

OpenAL can't stream audio over the network
OpenAL can't even use network streamed audio properly. It won't accept a callback, so the only way to manage real time audio with it is to write your own complete sound system that uses OpenAL as a backend (which is probably already using something else as a backend), by stuffing its buffers very carefully.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 14:09

OSS bitches.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 14:15

>>19
I'm stuck with OpenAL, and not Loki's version. If I could pick and choose I wouldn't have any problems here (and I wouldn't have OSS either. We left that shit back in the '90s for a reason.)

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 15:06

>>11
name one operating system that dosbox can run on that anyone has managed to have running for over 7 years

>>10
how do you think i've managed to keep it from going down whenever there's a blackout? it's hooked up to a fucking solar panel and a bunch of batteries.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 15:06

>>19
I remember when they ditched OSS for ALSA in the kernel, and sound on Linux gradually started not sucking so much. That sure was nice.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 15:41

>>22
It still sucked pretty much. I think the biggest problem right now are quirks. For example: every sound card seems to have a different idea of what 0 dbA volume means. PulseAudio assumes it means "maximum volume" and uses for the "composite volume control". Result? My earlobes get raped whenever I set volume above 20%. The developer doesn't give a shit about my bug reports because he's busy implementing support for every new bluetooth gadget he can get his hands on.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 15:53

Feels good being on Windows.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 15:55

>>21
Solaris

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 16:16

OH LOL LUSERS I USE A MAC AND ITS SO COOL AND EVERYTHING JUST WORKS! LOL LOL ITS SO KAWAII AND IM TOTALLY HIPSTER AND HAVE LOADS OF FRIENDS AND I'm LEARNING RUBY!  BRB GOING TO GET A DOUBLE MOCCA LATTE

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 16:30

>>22
I wish they'd switch back. OSS4 is worlds better than ALSA.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 16:35

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Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 16:36


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Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 16:37


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Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 16:39

@ Starbucks!

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 16:43

I sure am glad I use FreeBSD instead of that broken Linux shit.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 17:01

For you guys pimping FreeBSD and OSS, I'd like to point out that I'm stuck with OpenAL for portability reasons.

>>23
0db really really should be max volume.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 17:32

>>10
STFU greentard.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 17:33

>>23
Try explaining that to the audio expert behind PulseAudio.
You will be surprised how much he can write about the things he WON'T FIX and why he doesn't give a shit about your arguments.

It's like he really intends on keeping it broken.1
___
[1] http://0pointer.de/lennart/

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 18:14

>>35
Two problems.

1. He bitches when people (rightly and accurately) complain that his shit is broken (not to mention 'baroque', to put it politely.) For not giving a shit, he sure is a crybaby.
2. His shit gets shipped by various maintainers who should know better.

I don't care if PulseAudio is broken, what bothers me is that I'm expected to use it.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 18:26

>>36
Stop being a faggot and bitch to him about it.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 18:31

>>36
Who "expects" you to use it? Any reasonable Linux distro doesn't have that garbage shipped. Ubuntu is not reasonable.

By the way, try installing OSS4Free. Fantastic audio system. Better audio quality than ALSA, low latency, and a vastly better documentation and simpler API. Really - you can't make it any easier than open() and read()/write(), and some ioctl()s to set up.

http://4front-tech.com/hannublog/?p=5

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 18:37

Let's ask Xarn to revolutionize Linux sound systems.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 18:37

jackd or gtfo

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 18:51

>>40
Listen here, jerkface.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 18:53

>>38
In some cases the distributions even try to prevent users from removing ALSA and installing OSS by keeping ALSA’s mixer interface busy (the Gnome/GTK mixer appled is immediately relaunched if it gets killed).
Wow.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 19:16

>>37
No. I don't care about his software. I don't want to use it, and bitching to him has the precedent of going unappreciated.

>>38
It's not just distributions that ship it, it's projects that use it as a backend. You'll probably find it in just about every distribution's repo for that reason.

Ubuntu is not reasonable.
Correct.

OSS
Not ported to Windows. See, this really isn't about backend sound systems, it's about that necessary evil in Linux: the intermediary sound system. Most of these do double-duty so it's easy to be confused about what you want and what you need. OpenAL here is acting as the intermediary, the API. The scenario is easy enough to describe:

1. Assume the user has working sound.
2. Talk to that using a suitable intermediary.

I don't care what drives #1. If the user chooses a terrible backend that's their problem. OSS is unsuitable for use in #2, which is my concern: abstraction. The conveniences you list are what I try to avoid.

>>40
Hahaha. Go argue with the PulseAudio users.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 19:43

>>43
"Try to avoid"? I could understand that it may be of little consequence to you that an API is simple and well-documented, but to avoid it for that is nonsensical. Much less that you would want to avoid low latency or good quality mixing different streams with different sample rates.

Oh and did I mention that each application gets a separate volume control? Kickass feature.

And OpenAL works fine with OSS, I'm not sure how you say it's unsuitable. Regardless, I brought up OSS in regards to all the silly comments about PulseAudio, not necessarily because it had anything to do with >>1.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 20:36

>>44
I was fairly explicit about not caring about the backend. As I said, I don't care what backend the user supplies: it can be OSS or PulseAudio or ALSA or anything else that will talk to the hardware. Using OSS in my application as my intermediary is what is unsuitable.

By the way: I get latencies less than 2ms using ALSA as a backend, with interpolation. ALSA is pretty gross as far as interfaces go, however as an abstraction it is much better than a Unix character device.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 21:30

>>45
2ms is pretty horrendous if you're trying to play a softsynth.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-27 22:39

>>46
It's fantastic for a softsynth.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-28 0:47

>>47
If you like the Haas effect.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-28 8:39

>>48
I'm going to bump this everyone will see this wonderfully relevant post you just made.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-28 9:21

CoreAudio fuck yeah!

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-23 8:58

Don't change these.
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