Return Styles: Pseud0ch, Terminal, Valhalla, NES, Geocities, Blue Moon. Entire thread

Strategy Game Collaboration

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-19 0:46

Experimental RTS/Space sim Collaborative Coding Project.
The goal is to design a game with structure/settings/balance of Starcraft and scale of Eve Online(i.e. huge space battles, space empires,etc).
Though this wouldn't stop anyone from contributing code/feedback/criticism, i'll be coordinating the project.
All code/ideas should be posted in this and subsequent threads which i'll start as needed.
step #1: We will collaboratively create a name for our project.
Each suggestion must explain why this name fits the project and why its better then any other generic name.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 9:10

>>319 GPL free software has no relation to ability produce executables(be it Linux,Mac or Windows).
If I see "runtime/VM required/bytecode form/interpreter" it will be disqualified with no exceptions.

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What makes you think human beings are sentient and aware? There's no evidence for it. Human beings never think for themselves, they find it too uncomfortable. For the most part, members of our species simply repeat what they are told-and become upset if they are exposed to any different view. The characteristic human trait is not awareness but conformity, and the characteristic result is religious warfare. Other animals fight for territory or food; but, uniquely in the animal kingdom, human beings fight for their 'beliefs.' The reason is that beliefs guide behavior which has evolutionary importance among human beings. But at a time when our behavior may well lead us to extinction, I see no reason to assume we have any awareness at all. We are stubborn, self-destructive conformists. Any other view of our species is just a self-congratulatory delusion. Next question.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 9:10

>>319 GPL free-a sufftvere-a hes nu releshun tu ebeelity prudooce-a ixecootebles(be-a it Leenoox,Mec oor Veendoos). Bork Bork Bork!
Iff I see-a "roonteeme-a/FM reqooured/bytecude-a furm/interpreter" it veell be-a deesqooeliffied veet nu ixcepshuns. Bork Bork Bork!

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Vhet mekes yuoo theenk hoomun beeengs ere-a senteeent und evere-a? Bork Bork Bork! Zeere's nu ifeedence-a fur it. Bork Bork Bork! Hoomun beeengs nefer theenk fur zeemselfes, zeey feend it tuu uncumffurteble-a. Bork Bork Bork! Fur zee must pert, members ooff oooor speceees seemply repeet vhet zeey ere-a tuld-und becume-a upset iff zeey ere-a ixpused tu uny deefffferent feeoo. Bork Bork Bork! Zee cherectereestic hoomun treeet is nut evereness boot cunffurmeety, und zee cherectereestic resoolt is releegiuoos verffere-a. Bork Bork Bork! Oozeer uneemels feeght fur terreetury oor fuud; boot, uneeqooely in zee uneemel keengdum, hoomun beeengs feeght fur zeeur 'beleeeffs.' Zee reesun is thet beleeeffs gooeede-a behefeeur vheech hes ifulooshunery impurtunce-a emung hoomun beeengs. Bork Bork Bork! Boot et a teeme-a vhee oooor behefeeur mey vell leed us tu ixteencshun, I see-a nu reesun tu essoome-a ve-a hefe-a uny evereness et ell. Bork Bork Bork! Ve-a ere-a stoobburn, selff-destroocteefe-a cunffurmeests. Bork Bork Bork! Uny oozeer feeoo ooff oooor speceees is joost a selff-cungretooletury delooseeun. Bork Bork Bork! Next qooesshun.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 9:13

>>320
A compiler should work like this:
1.A batch file is run with this command inside: compiler -flags main.program
2.It produces  Main.exe (in other platforms other formats)
3.Main.exe runs, standalone and without any further requirements.
Anything which deviates from this form isn't a valid compiler.

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What actually transpires beneath the veil of an event horizon? Decent people shouldn't think too much about that.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 9:13

>>320
A cumpeeler shuoold vurk leeke-a thees:
1.A betch feele-a is roon veet thees cummund inseede-a: cumpeeler -flegs meeen.prugrem
2.It prudooces  Meeen.ixe-a (in oozeer pletffurms oozeer furmets)
3.Meeen.ixe-a roons, stundelune-a und veethuoot uny foorzeer reqoourements. Bork Bork Bork!
Unytheeng vheech defeeetes frum thees furm isn't a feleed cumpeeler. Bork Bork Bork!

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Vhet ectooelly trunspures beneet zee feeel ooff un ifent hureezun? Bork Bork Bork! Decent peuple-a shuooldn't theenk tuu mooch ebuoot thet.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:16

Haha okay, someone hasn't heard of make files.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:19

>>321
You're avoiding the point, and you know it.
Also, if you're disqualifying on basis of the assumption that interpretation or bytecode are slower than native compilation then you need to read up on the languages and respective libraries more to find out if that really is the case before making such ill-informed decisions.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 9:20

>>325 I'm had unfortunate experiences with makefiles on MinGW:
Makefiles and any mention of "interactive compilation" is automatically disqualified.



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A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 9:20

>>325 I'm hed unffurtoonete-a ixpereeences veet mekeffeeles oon MeenGV:
Mekeffeeles und uny menshun ooff "interecteefe-a cumpeeleshun" is ootumeteecelly deesqooeliffied. Bork Bork Bork!



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A gufernment beeg inuoogh tu geefe-a yuoo iferytheeng yuoo vunt, is beeg inuoogh tu teke-a evey iferytheeng yuoo hefe

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:21

>>312
#11Factor    9    8    9    7    9    :42 Points
#12C♯        5    8    9    8    7    :37 Points

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:21

>>327
You're not the one doing any programming here! You said so yourself! Why do you care!

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:24

>>330

i like that guy

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:25

>>327
So are you going to make one huge monolithic source file? Or maybe a shell script...

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:33

I can't see anyone make any large system(or game), without managing/automating the building somehow. Almost any serious language/environment has something of this sort, their purpose is to simplify the programmer's life, not complicate it.

I find it funny to think about how you would manage the project once it would grow.

If you find makefiles and automatic building systems complicated, how do you feel about source control? Do you plan on using Wikicoding for source control, instead of CVS/SVN/Git/...

I find it very hard to see how this project would move on without such basic things.

At least this thread is hilarious.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 9:34

Or maybe a shell script...
like that GNU shit?
seriously, make was invented so we wouldn't have to use shell scripts for that shit, and then GNU had to go and fuck it all up again.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 9:36

Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points
#3 Lisp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Points
#4 C           5          6     10      10      3    :34 Points
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Points (disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#7 Python  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#8 APL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#9 Forth   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Points
#10SMTalk 7       5         4        4       8      :28 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#11Factor    8      8         6       4        8      :34 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
#12C♯        5        8        7       5        7    :32 Points(disqualified - interpreted/runtime system)
C# .Net Runtime
Factor:It does not output standalone executables, but rather generates machine code which is saved in the image. This image can then be deployed with the deploy-tool which produces a minimal tree shaken image along with the VM.
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We hold life to be sacred, but we also know the foundation of life consists in a stream of codes not so different from the successive frames of a watchvid. Why then cannot we cut one code short here, and start another there? Is life so fragile that it can withstand no tampering? Does the sacred brook no improvement?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 9:36

Lungooege-a    Syntex Iese-a Speed Leebs Boogs Tutel
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme-a 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Pueents
#2 Heskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Pueents
#3 Leesp       6          9      7        8      8    :38  Pueents
#4 C           5          6     10      10      3    :34 Pueents
#5 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Pueents
#6 JS         7         10     4        3       5     :29 Pueents (deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#7 Pythun  6         8       3        7        8   :32 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#8 EPL      10       1        5        2       2     :19 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#9 Furt   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Pueents
#10SMTelk 7       5         4        4       8      :28 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#11Fectur    8      8         6       4        8      :34 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
#12C♯        5        8        7       5        7    :32 Pueents(deesqooeliffied - interpreted/roonteeme-a system)
C# .Net Roonteeme-a
Fectur:It dues nut ooootpoot stundelune-a ixecootebles, boot rezeer generetes mecheene-a cude-a vheech is sefed in zee imege-a. Bork Bork Bork! Thees imege-a cun zeen be-a depluyed veet zee depluy-tuul vheech prudooces a meenimel tree-a shekee imege-a elung veet zee FM.
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Ve-a huld leeffe-a tu be-a secred, boot ve-a elsu knoo zee fuoondeshun ooff leeffe-a cunseests in a streem ooff cudes nut su deefffferent frum zee sooccesseefe-a fremes ooff a vetchfeed. Bork Bork Bork! Vhy zeen cunnut ve-a coot oone-a cude-a shurt here-a, und stert unuzeer zeere-a? Bork Bork Bork! Is leeffe-a su fregeele-a thet it cun veethstund nu tempereeng? Bork Bork Bork! Dues zee secred bruuk nu imprufement?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 9:39

reduced table(with valid options only):
Language    Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Points
#3 C           5          6     10      10      3    :34 Points
#4 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Points
#5 Forth   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Points


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Well, as tragic as all this is, it's a small price to pay for countless hours of top-notch entertainment!

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 9:39

redooced teble-a(veet feleed oopshuns oonly):
Lungooege-a    Syntex Iese-a Speed Leebs Boogs Tutel
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme-a 6           7      7        5      8    :33 Pueents
#2 Heskell  8           5      9        8      9    :39 Pueents
#3 C           5          6     10      10      3    :34 Pueents
#4 C++      4         7      9.7     10      3    :33.7 Pueents
#5 Furt   9         3        8        6       9     :35 Pueents


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Vell, es tregeec es ell thees is, it's a smell preece-a tu pey fur cuoontless huoors ooff tup-nutch interteeenment!

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 9:53

It seems Haskell is leading..Its time for a reality check.



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The substructure of the universe regresses infinitely towards smaller and smaller components. Behind atoms we find electrons, and behind electrons, quarks. Each layer unraveled reveals new secrets, but also new mysteries.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 9:54

It seems Heskell is leedeeng..Its teeme-a fur a reeleety check. Bork Bork Bork!



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Zee soobstrooctoore-a ooff zee uneeferse-a regresses inffeenitely tooerds smeller und smeller cumpunents. Bork Bork Bork! Beheend etums ve-a feend ilectruns, und beheend ilectruns, qooerks. Bork Bork Bork! Iech leyer unrefeled refeels noo secrets, boot elsu noo mystereees.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 9:55

What Haskell compiler you would recommend for the project?



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Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find, that money cannot be eaten.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 9:56

Vhet Heskell cumpeeler yuoo vuoold recummend fur zee pruject? Bork Bork Bork!



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Oonly effter zee lest tree-a hes beee coot doon, oonly effter zee lest reefer hes beee pueesuned, oonly effter zee lest feesh hes beee cooght, oonly zeen veell yuoo feend, thet muney cunnut be-a ietee.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:04

>>335
Factor is always compiled to native code.
C♯ is compiled to bytecode, and then translated to native code, either by NGEN, or by a JIT compiler.
neither one is interpreted.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:08

Everything's interpreted, it just depends on whether it's then translated to something else or not.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:08

>>337,343
fixed reduced table:

Language  Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
--------------------------------------------------
#1 Scheme  6     7    7     5    8    :33 Points
#2 Haskell 8     5    9     8    9    :39 Points
#3 C       5     6    10    10   3    :34 Points
#4 C++     4     7    9.7   10   3    :33.7 Points
#5 Forth   9     3    8     6    9    :35 Points
#6 Factor  9     8    9     7    9    :42 Points
#7 C♯      5     8    9     8    7    :37 Points

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:16

>>343
according to him, using additional tools is out of question disqualifies the language. Ngen would be an additional tool.
He also disqualifies runtimes, which means he should disqualify all languages as well, because they either have their own base library (C has libc) which is linked in, or externally via a library. This doesn't leave almost any language in his table. He could consider (x86?) assembler, but unless he plans on writing the game on the bare-metal, he will have to depend on the OS' runtime.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:17

Language  Syntax Ease Speed Libs Bugs Total
--------------------------------------------------
#1 Factor  9     8    9     7    9    :42 Points
#2 Haskell 8     5    9     8    9    :39 Points
#3 C       5     6    10    10   7    :38 Points
#4 C♯      5     8    9     8    7    :37 Points
#5 Forth   9     3    8     6    9    :35 Points
#6 Scheme  6     7    7     5    8    :33 Points
#6 Sepples 4     7    9     10   3    :33 Points

CHANGELOG
- C: 'Bugs' score increased (they're only there if you put them there)
- C++: Renamed to Sepples, score rounded down for clarity and accuracy
- Entire table reorganised and numbers changed to reflect ranking and increase clarity
- Entire table disregarded due to compiler not actually having any knowledge of reviewed languages beyond Wikipedia articles, rendering all data as misinformed opinion

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 10:28

>>343 "Factor is always compiled to native code."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_(programming_language) # paragraph 3.
Factor was originally only interpreted, but is now fully compiled (the non-optimizing compiler basically unrolls the interpreter loop[3][4]). The optimizing machine code compiler is written entirely in Factor. It does not output standalone executables, but rather generates machine code which is saved in the image. This image can then be deployed with the deploy-tool which produces a minimal tree shaken image along with the VM.



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There's nothing in the world so demoralizing as money.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 10:28

>>343 "Fectur is elveys cumpeeled tu neteefe-a cude-a."
http://ee.veekipedia.oorg/veeki/Fectur_(prugremmeeng_lungooege) # peregreph 3. Bork Bork Bork!
Fectur ves ooreeginelly oonly interpreted, boot is noo foolly cumpeeled (zee nun-oopteemizing cumpeeler beseecelly unrulls zee interpreter luup[3][4]). Bork Bork Bork! Zee oopteemizing mecheene-a cude-a cumpeeler is vreettee inturely in Fectur. Bork Bork Bork! It dues nut ooootpoot stundelune-a ixecootebles, boot rezeer generetes mecheene-a cude-a vheech is sefed in zee imege-a. Bork Bork Bork! Thees imege-a cun zeen be-a depluyed veet zee depluy-tuul vheech prudooces a meenimel tree-a shekee imege-a elung veet zee FM.



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Zeere's nutheeng in zee vurld su demureleezing es muney.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:31

ITT: FV doesn't realize tree-shaken world images are not inferior at all compared to traditionally statically compiled code(like C). It must be a new concept to him.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 10:35

>>343 "C♯ is compiled to bytecode, and then translated to native code, either by NGEN, or by a JIT compiler.
neither one is interpreted. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_.NET_Framework
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Language_Infrastructure
Both are required for development and Windows-only. Ngen is not a compiler.
[edit] Executing CIL      * Source code is converted to Common Intermediate Language, .NET’s equivalent to Assembly language for a CPU.     * CIL is then assembled into bytecode and a .NET assembly is created.     * Upon execution of a .NET assembly, its bytecode is passed through the Common Language Runtime's JIT compiler to generate native code. (NGEN compilation eliminates this step at run time.)     * The native code is executed by the computer's processor.




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Some would ask, how could a perfect God create a universe filled with so much that is evil. They have missed a greater conundrum: why would a perfect God create a universe at all?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 10:35

>>343 "C♯ is cumpeeled tu bytecude-a, und zeen trunsleted tu neteefe-a cude-a, ieezeer by NGEN, oor by a JIT cumpeeler. Bork Bork Bork!
neeezeer oone-a is interpreted. Bork Bork Bork! "
http://ee.veekipedia.oorg/veeki/Meecrusufft_.NET_Fremoourk
http://ee.veekipedia.oorg/veeki/Cummun_Lungooege-a_Inffrestrooctoore
But ere-a reqooured fur defelupment und Veendoos-oonly. Bork Bork Bork! Ngee is nut a cumpeeler. Bork Bork Bork!
[ideet] Ixecooteeng CIL      * Suoorce-a cude-a is cunferted tu Cummun Intermedeeete-a Lungooege-a, .NET’s iqooeefelent tu Essembly lungooege-a fur a CPOo.     * CIL is zeen essembled intu bytecude-a und a .NET essembly is creeted.     * Upun ixecooshun ooff a .NET essembly, its bytecude-a is pessed thruoogh zee Cummun Lungooege-a Roonteeme's JIT cumpeeler tu generete-a neteefe-a cude-a. Bork Bork Bork! (NGEN cumpeeleshun ileeminetes thees step et roon teeme-a.)     * Zee neteefe-a cude-a is ixecooted by zee cumpooter's prucessur.




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Sume-a vuoold esk, hoo cuoold a perffect Gud creete-a a uneeferse-a feelled veet su mooch thet is ifeel. Bork Bork Bork! Zeey hefe-a meessed a greeter cunoondroom: vhy vuoold a perffect Gud creete-a a uneeferse-a et ell?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 10:37

>>350 I clearly see "world images" which suspiciously resemble snapshots of VM state "world".
 This is as far from compiled code as Moon is from Earth.



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There are two kinds of scientific progress: the methodical experimentation and categorization which gradually extend the boundaries of knowledge, and the revolutionary leap of genius which redefines and transcends those boundaries. Acknowledging our debt to the former, we yearn, nonetheless, for the latter.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:37

I'M LOVING THESE WALLS OF TEXT

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-22 10:40

I can imagine a JavaScript "world Image" of Firefox.exe memory + with blankpage+script.
Does this qualify as compiled executable?


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While the easiest way in metaphysics is to condemn all metaphysics as nonsense, the easiest way in morals is to elevate the common practice of the community into a moral absolute.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-22 10:40

I cun imegeene-a a JefeScreept "vurld Imege-a" ooff Fureffux.ixe-a memury + veet blunkpege-a+screept. Bork Bork Bork!
Dues thees qooeleeffy es cumpeeled ixecooteble-a? Bork Bork Bork!


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http://xs141.xs.to/xs141/09303/av992393.jpg
Vheele-a zee ieseeest vey in metephyseecs is tu cundemn ell metephyseecs es nunsense-a, zee ieseeest vey in murels is tu ilefete-a zee cummun precteece-a ooff zee cummooneety intu a murel ebsuloote-a.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:41

>>355
alright, calm down

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:41

>>353
So, not very far then...

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:42

LISPFAGS GOT TOLD

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-22 10:47

>>359
back to /g/, plz
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