China: An emerging super power?

I keep hearing that China is going to become so very powerful and soon.

I honestly don't think China will be a super power soon, they have too many internal problems (rift between rich and poor, corruption, enviornment, various social issues, etc...)

Is it just people talking about things they don't really know anything about or is there some truth to this?  Thoughts?

East Asia can rule the world! But only if they unite under a new greater East Asian co-prosperity sphere.

>>2
But they'll eat your precious dog!

>>3
Yeah. And how will you be able to blow your dog then, huh?

Dear America:

You forgot.  It was your final mission.  Nothing can save you now.

The answer to that question has, with varying degrees of accuracy, filled many books.  My first thought, as an American who has lived in China, is that the idea of global superpowers is Western, and analyzing them based on our contemporary political/economic ideas leaves a woefully incomplete picture.
First some perspective.  China's population accounts for about 20% of the population of the world.  They are followed by India, representing about 17%.  For perspective the USA comes in third, representing about 5%.  So China is 1/5th and the USA is 1/20th.  Add to this the fact that the Chinese are flat out a more highly socialized(I mean culturally, not political/economically) and cohesive society, and you have a force to be reckoned with.  They have the largest army in the world, the USA is around the 6th, and the fourth largest number of nukes, the USA is of course #1 there, so China is a country that is already, undeniably, a "Super Power".  There's no emerging about it.
Regarding the internal problems you mentioned:  I'd like to see the statistics on the distribution of wealth in China, and in the USA normalized and compared.  I think it would surprise many people.  Corruption?  There's certainly a lot of what we would call corruption there.  The difference is in China it's practically institutionalized.  They know how to deal with it, and it's mostly about getting around the government.  Here there's tremendous corruption, but we pretend that it's unacceptable and the exception in our nations of laws.  We act surprised and indignant when someone goes too far, or makes a mistake and gets caught. Personally, though the methods are different, I don't think we are any less corrupt, and actually are more hypocritical.  The environment?  Sure the environment is worse there.  Not only are they supporting 4 times as many people in an area geographically comparable to the US, but they're also supporting us, in all the heavy industry we've farmed out to them.  Still, I'd stack up the effort they are actually putting into improving the situation against ours any day.  You don't see many Hummers in China, and you see people everywhere using solar power.  Never forget that in the overall consumption of resources, The USA and Western Europe are way out in the lead.
Two things I think about when considering China.  One, they are so cohesive that it's said that whenever they want to do something, they do it.  Quickly.  As compared to the USA, a country whose constitution is designed to slow things down, and two, the Chinese have never in their history, the longest cultural history in world history, tried to dominate the world.  They just want to be part of a community.  It's they're nature.  It's why communism was so appealing to them.  That's actually kind of funny, 'cause they love money.  They use it in some of their religious rituals!  Now that they've built themselves, in a few generations, into a modern Western style nation they're ready for the next step.  Are we ready to coexist, and continue leading in a positive direction when it's wise?  If so, then they will be great friends.  But if we fuck it up... well, lets just say you reap what you sew.

No, America.  You are the impoverished and overpopulated nation with a corrupt and imbalanced political-economic system.  And then America was the impoverished and overpopulated nation with a corrupt and imbalanced political-economic system.

>>3-4
I don't have a dog what are you talking about

>>8
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lounge/1241815379/1

>>9
That's not me I don't even knwo how to use small font.

>>10
Lol, liar. Enjoy your dog dick.

>>11
Why do you keep fantasizing about me fellating a dog? That's not healthy, you should seek professional help!!

>>12
Oh ho ho! It's not fantasy, it's fact. Enjoy your bestiality.

>>6
Great post.

"According to U.N. statistics, the poorest 20 percent of China's 1.3 billion citizens account for only 4.7 percent of total income, while the richest 20 percent account for more than half. Moreover, that gap has been widening steadily over the last three years. It was cited as China's most serious social problem in a survey conducted by the Central Party School last year."

>>10
That's not me I don't even knwo how to use small font.
knwo
lol fail

>>6
awesome post, thanks

>>6
Just wondering, what would the Chinese government do if you were to post something like this while in China?  Would you even be able to go on 4chan?

China is not even close to being as cohesive as the US (ot that the US is amazingly cohesive) China is an honest to god empire, a the Han rule over dozens of *highly* resentful countrys and ethnic groups who spend a great deal of there time rioting. The Tibetens and the Muslims in the west for just two recent welll know examples.

>>14
Thanks.  I just looked at some statistics on Wikipedia(I know, a questionable source)that places 80% of all the assets of the USA in the hands of the top 10%.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States
See what I mean?  Meaningful reliable statistics are hard to find, and I know, "There are three kinds of lies...", but I swear, sometimes I think that this kind of shit is deliberately obfuscated.

>>6  The Great Fire Wall, eh?  Yeah, I ran into it.  There were even times when I was there that Google was blocked, but it's not terribly effective, and many of the people are pretty computer savvy. They know how to use mirrors and tunnels and all kinds of stuff that I know nothing about.  Most of the computing is done in internet cafes, and if you want to do stuff that's dodgy, it's a pretty simple matter of not staying in one place too long.  It's not like they could ever possibly monitor all the activity, or that there are "spies" in the cafes.  I'd add this:  I'm a bit of a shithouse sociologist, and I've noticed that the Chinese people know how to mind their own business more than any other people I've ever lived among.  I don't know whether it can be attributed to having to live in such close proximity to others, or lessons learned during the cultural revolution, or a combination, or what, but if you fulfill your responsibilities within your community, they don't give a damn what you do behind closed doors.  They're also not the kind to call the police.  I think that's because the police there are kind of like mean Andy Taylor's.  As I've said, they are far more highly socialized, and the cops are members of the community who are more concerned with fulfilling their proper Confucianist bureaucratic role.  The Chinese know that if you call the police, they're just as likely to kick your ass for bringing a problem into their field of view.  Kick the shit out of everybody, and let the Magistrate sort it out seems to be their motto. Someday maybe we'll(Americans) figure out that the police are not our friends. Back to your question, what I'm trying to say is if I posted something critical about the government there, and was loud and obvious about it, I'd get a visit, maybe a beating, and certainly most of my punishment would come from my own community. If I kept it up, then things would get worse quickly until I was completely ostracized by my community, and I was taken away.  But it's pretty easy to do what you want if you keep a low profile.  Oh, and the Banner(sort of a flag) is a pretty powerful thing there.  I wouldn't write anything on a banner and start waving it around.  That would bring 'em down hard and fast.

  >>18  An "honest to god empire"???  First of all, China is over 90% Han.  I lived in an ethnically divers area in the north that had many Koreans, Uyghur's(the people you called Muslims), Mongols, and Manchus, and you're just wrong.  The Uyghur's causing the trouble are few, and far in the northwest, and the only thing I'm going to say about Tibet is that the arguments the Chinese use about Tibet sound remarkably similar to Great Britain talking about Northern Ireland.  And the USA cohesive?  That's pure nonsense.  The entire history of western civilization and America has been geared towards making us more individualistic.  It's our greatest strength, and our greatest weakness, and representative of the greatest difference between us:  They have a culture that has been developing for at least 4000 years that binds them together.  They know that governments and laws come and go.  We, on the other hand, have sacrificed the social cultures of ethnicity for the law.  It is our laws that bind us together as a people, and if you believe that it's created a society that's as cohesive as China, then, well, I can only wonder whether you've ever been there, or anywhere else to have a frame of reference.

>>19

I don't know much about the American or Chinese rift between classes but I'm sure the poor Americans are much better off than the poor Chinese.

>>20
"Better off" is a pretty subjective standard.  Poor Americans certainly have more stuff.

(rift between rich and poor, corruption, enviornment, various social issues, etc...)

That's every freeeking nation

>>21
If you mean more stuff as in sanitation and electricity, then yes, they are better off.

lemon lady

I wish it was more like the historical empire.  As far as dynasties go, this one is pretty lame in comparison.

Cohesion of a society has nothing to do with how indvidualistic it is. As far as I am aware its more to do with the common bonds of a society. America is a free country and there are no movements even approcing mainstream that call for parts of it to break away. 
China obviously enforces its cohesion from the barrel of a gun and for the past 20 years though getting a chunk of the population much richer. Now no one knows for sure what would happen if all the people in China were given a choice to stick with it or not it seems quite likely you are likely to see somthing like post Russian empire in the 90's. At least more likely than the US.

>>26
I believe China's political environment means we will not be seeing a break up of the PRC or any large scale attempt at democratisation.

The regime has managed to implement succesful free market economics and undergo industrial development similiar to that of the asian tigers while maintaining an authoritarian regime, we will probably see political reforms on a provincial basis but nothing that will undermine the authority of the communist party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_China#Province_level
There are just under 3 million people in Tibet and only 20 million in Xinjiang out of 1300 million in total, most likely China will take a machiavellian approach to quelling resistance here, with it's newfound wealth it can afford to loosen it's purse strings and encourage development in these areas, but even if the population becomes militant and decides to wage a continuous and vicious guerilla campaign they have enormous military resources to drawn apon to quell resistance.

China knows how to treat its muslims.

I want to see rival communities selecting champions of the highest skill to determine laws and justice using fierce Wuxia battles taught by competing schools.

>>26
America is a free country eh?  I have a favorite story for illustrating the difference between personal and political freedom, the nature of society, and politics in China.  I lived near a small town.  Some years before the government had built a nice big highway to it from the nearest mid sized city (about 35k's).  Like they do in the US, they made it a toll road and told the people that when the road was paid for, it would be free.  Like in the US, at least in my state, they lied.  Eventually the toll revenue met and exceeded the construction costs but the booths and collectors remained.  The people objected and petitioned, yet the booths and collectors remained.  One day the people had enough.  Thousands marched to the booths with a crane and a bulldozer, politely asked the collectors to vacate the booths, and ripped them out of the road.  The government was aware of the act of civil disobedience while it was happening, and had actually threatened a military response, but it did not act.  There is, in fact, a sizable military installation on the very road.  Eventually the government sent out a small crew to set warning signs in front of the gaping holes in the road where the booths had been, but no other action was taken. Imagine what would happen in a similar situation in the US.  Can you imagine that many people in the US getting together to do anything.  The Chinese are generally happy with their government because it's effective.  They understand that progress can hurt, but this very thread is proof that progress is happening.  Every day the Chinese people get a little richer, and a little smarter.  Conversely, we grow poorer and dumber.  Every day our government shoves it's cock a little deeper into our asses and all we do is complain and shift around a bit so we can continue to see the TV and reach the chips and dip.  Believe me, when the government of China fails to serve it's purpose, they will change it.  Quickly.

>>30
That's just a consequence of having less money, paying a toll is a bigger deal for them.

>>30
this is a true, blue, faggot
'baaaawww, my government sucks because it doesnt represent my views'
why dont you go out and try to change it, you little bitch?

>>32
This is a perfect example of typical American arrogance, and the sort of thinking best represented by George Bush's "You're either with us, or against us..." mentality.  The fool assumes, in his ignorance, that I do not "work to change it", when in fact I have spent over 13 years in direct service to my country, have had four medal pinned to my chest, and have a stack of documents attesting to my positive contributions.  More importantly, I have lived like a true American, seeking my own answers, exploring, and at all times, attempting to contribute positively to discussion.  His knee jerk reaction is the kind of thing I have come to expect from the kind of people who have been led to believe that there are really only two ways to view politics.  The kind of people who confuse the world view they have built based on the media environments they have been exposed to by the forces that control them, with the real world that they have seen little, or nothing of.  Proles and Huxlean zombies.  America is more than a flag, a constitution, and an economic standard of living, but because it's enough for most people, and because most people can't even define the word integrity, much less recognize it, we are bleeding to death. 
Why don't you try a little Preparation-H on that butthurt.  It will also help with lubrication while that cock slides deeper into your ass.  I hear they're 2 for 1 at Wallmart.  Blot the bleeding with your flag, and be quick about it; WWE Raw is on tonight.

>>31 here
I get the impression you have some self-asteem issues. Kudos on all those poor chinese not taking shit from their government, but it doesn't mean they are superior and their achievements do not reflect on you just because you share their culture. When the Chinese are as rich as us they will be just as decadent.

Of course if you have any personal achievements then that means you as an individual do indeed have more merits, of course whether you do have 4 medals or not I don't know, but I know you know, so if you do have 4 medals, congrats, if not then you obviously have self-asteem issues and should probably see a therapist or get laid or something.

>>34
I do have four medals, you're missing the forest for the trees, and I can spell self esteem.  Personally I'm not particularly proud of the medals, but most people accept them as having value, so I trot them out when I'm interacting with those who question my sense of civic duty.  Now can we get back to issues and ideas, and leave the personalities and ad hominem attacks behind? 
You believe that it was poverty that precipitated the incident on the road.  It was certainly about money, but poor people in China don't drive cars.  If there weren't a significant number of prominent citizens involved, it never would have gotten off the ground.  One of the main points is that the people, contrary to the common misconception in America, hold their government accountable.  It's not criticizing the governments actions that's taboo, it's challenging the government itself.  The Chinese have a culture and social structures that predate the government, and they have, relatively recently, chosen the current one.  In fact, many living citizens were involved building it.  Let's contrast this with the United States.  Our government predates our "culture", and, in fact, it is that system of government, it's laws, and its scant 230 year history that are the only things that bind us together.  This is not a criticism.  That people from other cultures from all over the world have been able to come together and build the most powerful and influential nation the world had ever known speaks for itself.  But it is becoming clear to more and more Americans that something is missing.  The first, and most obvious thing is the average American's understanding of our system.  And how do we respond?  By producing and watching TV shows like Judge Judy, Law and Order, and CSI.  Why? Because the most revolutionary and egalitarian system of governance in the history of mankind has been tied to a destructive and inherently unethical economic system.  Don't get me wrong; I'm no communist.  What I am is a member of the society that has produced largest group of innovative, creative, and independent people who ever walked the face of the Earth.  And therein lies the answer.  We need to admit that things are not working the way they should, the way they can, and innovate the next step. 
    The best way to understand a thing is to contrast it with another similar thing.  This is not an adversarial process, but when done honestly, it can be painful.  Particularly when, as I stated before, and as few can disagree with as it can be statistically supported, every day the Chinese get a little richer and a little smarter, and everyday we get a little poorer, and a little dumber.

>>35
>The Chinese have a culture and social structures that predate the government
All cultures and social structures predate the government. Do you think immigrants came to America then instantly lost their memory? The idea that cultures have unique magical properties belongs to an age when rulers had to foster clan loyalties among their subjects in the same way gang members tattoo shit over their faces. When the Chinese no longer have need of them they will discard them like used tampons and if there is a need for them again new ones will be conjured up out of thin air and followed as vehemently as though they were 1000s of years old.

You also forget one major factor, there was no way the Chinese were ever going to get rid of the toll booth through political means.

>>36
No, immigrants come to America and a process begins wherein over a few generations some of their cultural traits are added to the whole, and the rest are supplanted by the existing culture that is founded in the law.

The idea that cultures have unique magical properties...
Ahem.

Civil disobedience is a political means.  The point I'm trying to communicate is that, contrary to what most Americans have been led to believe, it not only exists in China, but may even be more common and dramatic than it is here.

>>37
The first red indians to set foot on America were from China so by your reasoning America is essentially Chinese culture with some european cultures thrown in. Civil disobedience has political ends but it has physical means.

>>38
>>The first red indians to set foot on America were from China

Wat

>>39
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations

China has been working for Yankee-Dollars during the last 20 years. They hold the biggest single amount of dollars ever seen. If they happen to go shopping with their dollars, they could buy the complete USA industry twice, except the Military-Industrial-Complex of course. The dollar wouldn't even be worth the paper it's printed on then. That's why we hear voices calling for a new world currency lately.

>>38
By my reasoning eh?  This is /newpol/ not /newanthropol/.  I was addressing the United States of America, not the American Continents, and you know it.  If you want to play like that I could counter with the idea that casting a vote is a physical means to a political end.  Come on... if you have something intelligent to contribute, you are welcome.  Otherwise I suggest you go back and read this thread as carefully as you are able.  You might learn something, despite your contrary nature. 

>>41
I'd like to hear more.  I know little about global economics, and the idea of a "new world currency" sounds awful to me.

>>42
America consists of people and those people had a culture before they formed the American government. This should have been obvious.

Casting a vote is a political means since voting is permitted, the chinese government doesn't want people tearing down their property. This should have been obvious.

You are fillibustering because you know you are wrong or can't admit it. This is obvious. Would you rather I be a tool, don't think for myself, don't criticise and just agree with everything you say like >>41 ?

>>43
The culture of the United States of America began with the ratification of its constitution.
You need to read up on civil disobedience.  The term ‘civil disobedience’ was coined by Henry David Thoreau in 1848. Here's a nice link.    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/civil-disobedience/
>>41 was an independent assertion that neither agreed, or disagreed with anything I said.
I don't mind trolls.  As I have said here before, they only serve to facilitate discussion.  The only thing in this thread that's "obvious" is that you have been outclassed.

>>40

Right.. but they weren't all from the area that is now China.

>>44
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you don't think previous culture has any effect?

>>44
So your argument is essentially that Americans don't commit civil disobedience because their culture is inferior and you have succesfully disproven and outclassed me and I'm the troll?

>>46

See above

No, immigrants come to America and a process begins wherein over a few generations some of their cultural traits are added to the whole, and the rest are supplanted by the existing culture that is founded in the law.

Prior to the establishment of the USA there were already significant populations of English, Germans, Swedes, Dutch, French, Spaniards(primarily in the south and west of what would become the contemporary USA), and African Slaves in the mix.  The framers of the constitution were fully aware of the fact that they were creating a "Nation of Laws" for an already culturally and religiously divers population.  Of course culture has an effect.  That we speak English is an example of the profound influence the cultures some of the earliest settlers/immigrants had, but ultimately, and as it was intended, the law is the one and only thing that binds us together into a single entity.  It is the focal point, and when everybody's looking at the same thing, they eventually begin to see the same thing. 
This is a fundamental principle of constitutional law that many people fail to grasp.  You hear people claiming that the USA is a christian nation, or a white nation, while the writings of many of the framers specifically contradict these notions, as do the actions of the govt. over the last 230 years.

>>48
Is this 1923? Who the fuck is claiming America is a white christian nation except a bunch of hicks no one cares about?

>>48
You blow culture way out of proportion, cuisine and music isn't going to influence whether I commit civil disobedience or not, things like whether I can change the system by lobbying and voting and the likelyhood of the government killing or imprisoning me do.

What are you over-compensating for that drives you to warp reality to fit around something as irrelevant and narrow as culture?

by 2020 china will surpass the economic power of the United States and European Union

by 2030 china will surpass both....combined

Even with internal strife and all the social problems often cited, it is inevitable. With over a billion people the population of china only needs to reach a modest living standard to dwarf the US and European economies. On a individual basis, the US and EU will be far better off for many many years, but as an economic power china will easily surpass us. The good news is the US will probably end up being chinas strongest ally as both economies are interwoven and dependant on eachother.

The US was the worlds first hyper-power, china will be the second.