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What's up with this gay marriage bs?

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 13:30

We're supposed to be the most tolerant nation in the world electing a nigger president but we STILL can't let people marry because of their genders in more than six states? Every single argument I hear about any law regarding banning gay marriage or leaving it illegal is fucking retarded.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 16:43

Same sex marriage is the proper term. "Gay marriage" discriminates against bisexuals and transgendered people. You're a bigot, OP.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 18:53

90% of the human race is retarded, irrational, delusional, and willfully ignorant. The vast majority of them are violent, impatient, intolerant jerks. We call them "religious people".

The other 10% isn't much better.

This explains every human problem ever.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 20:54

>>3
Yeah, especially atheists. Worst religion ever, Stalin and Mao killed over 100 million people in the 20th century because their atheist god told them to.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 23:25

And atheists can't even cover up the many flaws in their religion with "God says so.  You have a problem with it, take it up with Him."  Atheists have absolutely no reason to support marriage at all, gay or otherwise.  At least the theists don't have to be logically consistent.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 2:20

>>4
>>5
0/10.

Poe's Law doesn't apply to 4chan.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 4:19

protip : Their gender is not the problem. It's the legal side of this that's hindering this in most countries.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 5:51

Marriage used to be a way of getting men to stay with their wives and support their kids but now with the child support and welfare it's pretty much obsolete. Gay marriage is pointless because the entire institution of giving tax breaks to couples and sexist pre-nuptial agreements is retarded to begin with.
>>6
Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your atheist fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 7:13

>>8
Is some other word being wordfiltered to "atheist"? What's going on, here?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 19:03

>>9
Just one person who doesn't understand

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 22:50

>>9
No. I am referring to atheists. It seems you are so far gone down the "BEING AN ATHEIST MEANS IM ALWAYS LOGICAL AND RIGHT" line you cannot even comprehend the very idea that you've turned atheism into yet another religion.
>>10
Understand what? That atheist wizardry is the true way?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 1:37

>>9
Welcome to 4chan. That's what we call a troll. See >>6.

Poe's Law states that religious fundamentalism is indistinguishable from successful trolling. Both are retarded, both take pride in staggering ignorance, neither makes any fucking sense at all, etc.

This doesn't apply on 4chan, though, because the default assumption is that we're all just trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls with varying degrees of success. Threads like this only progress because we all know we're being trolled, but we're bored enough to continue the troll fest.

Feel free to feed the trolls if you're bored, but it's more fun to troll real fundies that actually believe this shit rather than trying to troll trolls trolling you.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 10:10

>>12
NO U

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 20:52

>>12
Yeah! Since you're here to prove how "smrt" you are, you'd be better off contrasting yourself with inbred hicks instead of people who can crush you in logical debate in a heart beat. What better way to reinforce the atheist delusion?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 22:41

>>14
Trolled.

Also, drop the ad hominem attacks if you want to be taken seriously. Otherwise, you will be considered a simple troll rather than someone who actually wants to have an intelligent discussion.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 23:08

>>15 intelligent discussion

Carefag detected.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 4:04

The people voted. This is a democracy. Discussion over. Move on.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 6:17

>>15
Actually it's logically justified. You made yourself the subject at hand by claiming your faggy little atheist religion is justified because you are a self-avowed pseudo-intellectual douche with a massive superiority complex and an elitist attitude.

Feel free to change the topic when you're tired of having your ass handed to you.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 11:25

Homos can be buttbuddies in marriage no problem in england.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 15:41

>>8

Why does every atheist live in a fantasy world? What about the atheists who don't act like fucking douchebags?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 15:41

>>8

Why does every atheist live in a fantasy world? What about the atheists who don't act like fucking douchebags?

Name: Priest Joe 2009-06-03 15:55

I now pronounce you husband and... uhhhh... wha... I mean... fuck this shit, I'm outta here.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 21:45

>>19
Just get your dick in my ass now!

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 22:00

>>21
No one is omnipotent so we are all deluded and ignorant to a certain extent, thus the best measure of someone's sanity is whether they can admit they are fallible or not.

Atheism demands a complete denial of god's existence so it is pretty much a dogma.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-04 23:56

>>24

That's not true. There are 6 sects of Atheism, if you will.

First, division into strong and weak, and then subdivisions of militant, theoretical and practical. Strong atheists are the ones that completely deny existence of a god. Weak atheists (like myself) do not completely deny, we just believe that there is not one.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-07 18:42

>>17
The Constitution says all men are created equal. Why do we get to choose which rules that govern us get followed correctly? All this whining about you Conservafags not getting your votes counted but you're breaking the precious piece of paper you suck dick from 16 hours a day.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-10 22:28

>>4

4/10
Horrible attempt. Fortunately for you 4chan is 90% retards.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-10 22:29

Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your christian fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-10 22:29

Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your muslim fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-10 22:30

Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your jew fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-11 8:42

>>28-30
Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your atheist fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-22 17:18

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-22 19:00

>>31
Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your dungeons and dragons fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-22 19:01

>>32
Good point, thanks.  I hadn't thought of it that way before.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-23 4:39

The bible is not against gay marriage. fucking read it you illiterates.

A) The Ceremonial Law of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy no longer applies. Because of what is written in the book of Galatians and Paul's writings in the second chapter of Colossians, we have clear declarations that the ceremonial law is now in the field of Christian liberty. Paul uses a variety of examples to declare this and lists several portions of the law, following with the declaration that all of it was nailed to the Cross and has been removed. This belief is backed up further by the book of Romans and the speeches at the council of Jerusalem in Acts (Chapter 15), along with selected sayings by Christ concerning ceremonial practice. If we decide to pick and choose portions of the ceremonial law to continue in observance as God's will without clear relation of those parts to the commandments of God referenced in Romans, James and Revelations, then we place ourselves in danger of the ban of Galatians 1:8.

If this is the case, and most of you will find that your pastors will agree with this, unless you are members of the Seventh-day Adventist or similar denominations, then we have a big problem in the debate of homosexual sex as a sin. The problem is simple: The two clearest declarations of homosexual sex as a sin in the Bible are found in chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus. If the ceremonial law no longer applies, then neither do these.

B) Sodom and Gomorrah do not pertain to homosexual sex, and the same can be said of the related story in Judges. The sins of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are clearly huge. Have you ever seen a city in your lives where the whole male population tried to batter down doors so that they could gang rape guests to the city? I apologize for being so blunt and almost crude, but the point is not a pleasant one, and neither is the story. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were sinful beyond our understanding. These were foul places where such extreme forms of rape were accepted and where the closest thing to a righteous man offers up his daughters to their lusts. Further, the issue also comes up that this is a story more about the complete lack of hospitality and the brutality of the citizens. It is reading too far into the text to say that this passage says anything about homosexual sex. It is speaking of extreme cases that do not apply to homosexual sex.

(Note: Ezekiel 16 is the passage which refers to the sins of Sodom/Gomorrah)

C) The argument of creation (God created them Adam and Eve, so they are meant to be complimentary) suffers from a massive weakness. In chapter three of Genesis, we are told why a man leaves his father and mother to become one flesh with the woman that he loves. We are told similar things in chapter five of Paul's letter to the Ephesians. However, neither passage declares that this must be the only thing. Paul also speaks elsewhere of the joys of celibacy. This indicates that marriage is not required. Without proof that homosexual sex is considered a sin, there is no reason to automatically assume that "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" is actually said in Scripture. The passages only say why heterosexual marriages occur, not that they must be the only ones.

In fact, an important point must be made. Scripture speaks clearly about the need to save sex for marriage. If the Bible has not declared homosexual sex or marriage as sinful, then we have done a vast disservice in refusing homosexual couples the right to marriage. We are, in effect, trying to force them into sinful relationships out-of-wedlock.

D) There are three passages that may speak on homosexual sex in the New Testament. Two are lists of sins, found in chapter six of Paul's first letter to the Corinthians and chapter one of his first letter to Timothy. The third, and most important, passage is found in the first chapter of Paul's letter to the Romans.

1) The two lists are poorly translated in the cases of homosexuality. Three words are found in these passages that are used to relate to homosexual sex: Pornia, Arsenokoitas and Malakoi. Pornia means pervert. That's all it really means. It refers to sexual perversion, but makes no statement as to what that perversion is. It is far too general to relate to homosexual sex. Malakoi refers to softness or effeminacy, with implications of perversion. The term is used to refer to a man who is too passionate and emotional, and who acts upon these. It relates to the Grecian concepts of gender identity. The man was not to be emotional in this fashion. If one stretches the meaning of the word, examples are found where Malakoi may refer to the 'bottom' partner of pederasty. This is a relationship wherein a teenage boy traded sexual favors with an older man in return for guidance and training. It was common within Greek society and accepted in Roman society. Arsenokoitas is a compound word derived from the Greek words for man and bed. While this sounds like a clear reference to homosexuality to our modern ears, there is a problem. The word does not appear at any point prior to Paul's letters. To our knowledge, he created the term himself. Its usage in all other cases I am aware of either represents something akin to an aggressive sexual predator or, more commonly, the "top" partner in pederasty. At most these verses could possibly have listed pederasty as a crime, but not homosexual sex alone. You cannot read into the text the fact that, because something condemned includes another thing, that other thing is automatically condemned as well. For example, a person who breaks the commandment about not bearing false testimony against one's neighbor must communicate to do so. Communication is not condemned, is it? The condemnation of pederasty cannot be clearly related, even in consideration of Jewish morals that Paul is familiar with, to a condemnation of homosexual sex. Look at http://www.clgs.org/5/5_4_3.html for further details on the specifics of Arsenokoites and Malakoi.

2) Romans 1:18-32 is the key to the argument. However, there are a series of problems with the classic interpretation of the passage.

One, we rarely take verses 26-27 in context with the rest of the passage. The lusts spoken of are the result of godlessness and the refusal of the gospel of God. The godless ones are described as being given over to their passions. This loss of control is key and important to the Greeks and Romans Paul is writing to, and was considered a very bad thing. It is important to realize that the passage is not centered on homosexual relations, no matter how you interpret it.

Two, the relationships are referred to as being unnatural. The term pushin is the Greek word for natural and refers, in general, to that which is according either to socially accepted morals or to one's innate nature. The society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexual relationships to be quite natural. What would have been considered unnatural to the Romans would specifically have been something where a citizen was 'on bottom.' Such a position degrades the citizen's status and was considered to be a horrible thing.

Three, the shameful lusts that are spoken of are not specifically described. Unlike Leviticus, where they are listed, the passage assumes that its audience knows what is being spoken of. While Paul is a born and trained Jew, familiar with the ceremonial law, he is preaching to newly converted Christians in Rome and Greece. These people, though somewhat familiar with Jewish beliefs, could not have been considered familiar enough to assume that "shameful lusts" meant what is said in Leviticus. Paul is not a man to leave explanations unclear. When necessary, he goes into great detail and repetition to make his point absolutely clear and understood. Therefore, by context it seems he is speaking to the Roman's understanding of shameful, the subjugation of a citizen for example. Further, pathos (lusts) does not necessitate a sexual connotation.

Four, the fact that we have women doing things with women instead of men and that we have men doing things with men instead of women is clear from what Paul says in verses 26-27. However, Paul does not at any point say what is being done. He lacks the clarity of Leviticus. Any number of things could be occurring, and without a clear indication that the text is specifically speaking of homosexual sex acts on any level we are familiar with today we cannot claim that Romans 1 clearly declares that the ceremonial law still applies in this case.

My arguments are quite basic. This is only an overview of them. I have far more detailed descriptions of the issues involved and will happily offer them. This argument is also not new. You can find websites offering similar interpretations themselves. I came to these conclusions, however, through prayer and consideration with friends, not a website. These positions, also, are hardly universally accepted. There is strong evidence in both directions with regards Romans 1. Some churches still make the claim that parts of the ceremonial law remain intact. There are strong arguments both for and against this.

My single greatest point is this: Can you honestly declare something a sin when you cannot clearly show without serious contention that the Bible declares it to be a sin? When we look at the Ten Commandments, we know basically what they say and don't argue over them. Christ further explains them during his life, giving us more information about what they mean. We know these things to be sins, and there is little debate. Homosexual sex is found in the ceremonial laws and what few verses speak of it outside of that set of laws are hotly contested. How can we clearly state, based upon these facts, that homosexuality is indeed a sin?

No. I don't think it's wrong, and I'll be happy to stand on Scripture to that effect.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-23 9:45

>>33
anyone who still plays dungeons and dragons in the age of WOW must be some kind of ultranerd
>>35
Open to interpretation, I interpret it as exploit the proletariat so I can live in opulent splendor.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-30 9:57

JUST LET THE COEDS MARRY

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-30 12:06

>>1
* African American

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-30 15:11

Every gay marriage argument is so weak. Good luck with your choice being protected by law.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-30 16:51

>>40
Good thing that every argument against it is weak, also.  Enjoy randomly outlawing crap.  "That wallpaper is so tacky, it offends me.  THERE OUGHTA BE A LAW."

Name: The Ultranerd 2009-10-01 5:39

>>36
Back in /newpol/ just to grab my rightful crown.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-02 6:07

>>41

Fistfuck a cat. Enjoy randomly changing definitions. "I dont think animals are a specific type of living thing. ANYTHING THAT IS ALIVE IS AN ANIMAL NOW"

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-02 8:42

>>43
There ought to be a law making the fistfucking of cats mandatory.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-02 13:16

meow?

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-03 0:56

Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the f up and go back to your evolutionist fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-03 1:04

Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity (Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:8-11.), tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-13 13:51

I always wonder,how can something found in nature be against natural law? Its an oxymoron.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-13 17:22

Thats pretty damn halarious how it is found in nature so cant be against the natural law, because it isnt. Humans are the only species on this earth that have the ability to question their own sexuality and then go against it. Man was meant to be with woman. If man was meant to be when man or woman were ment to be with woman the genders would be compatable with themselves. But they are not, they are different, why? because we dont go together, homosexuality goes against the laws of nature for the very point of sex is off spring and two men, nor two women can have children. Thus if nature allowed, say two men to be in love and have sex, the two men should be able to produce fetile offspring, but they cant. Homosexuality is a disease, a learned trait if you will. No one is born gay, they simply become gay and this can happen for multiple reasons. One reason is that they want attention, it's an identity crisis! These people see this and want to be this, they arnt "chosen" or any such nonsense, they are homosexual because they want to be homosexual. They became homosexual as a cry for help. Also while we are on the topic of identity crises' we can talk about the people who love fence posts and bridges, and feel that the object loves them back. Are you too tell me that these people are not also mentally ill? Should we give them rights too? Off course not! Giving homosexuals rights is just another step on the road to chaos! Once we give homosexuals rights, these people will demand rights also, and will we not have to give the rights to them? Would it not make sense to just say no to homosexuals and not "set the ball rolling"? We as a society have become to corrupt as is, why take another step down the path to insanity?

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-13 17:54

>>49
Humans are the only species on this earth that have the ability to question their own sexuality and then go against it.

You mean like Priests?

Though reproduction is the most significant "point" of sex, if you believe it's the only point then I assume you have the integrity to forgo it in any other circumstance.  I hope you're just another troll, 'cause that makes your post kind of funny.  The perfect image of a poorly educated tool, echoing things he's heard but doesn't really understand, trying to drown out the cries of the cocksucker deep within.  That would just be sad.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-13 20:34

The reason the most significant point of sex is reproduction was brought up was to kill the fact that homosexuality is "natural", because it isnt. No one said it was the only point of sex, you are just assuming they believe that and assumptions good sir, make and ass out of you.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-13 21:04

>>51
No, the exact words were "the very point of sex", and regarding homosexuality's status as "natural" behavior, we're gonna need some explanation, 'cause we all know that in nature, damn near anything with genitals will rub them up against anything they can. 
I assume nothing, but I will speculate that you are very likely the samefag, trollish, repressed cock smoker as >>49.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-13 21:54

First, "samefag, trollish, repressed cock smoker", thats very mature. Also in that insult when you use the terms "samefag" and "cock smoker" you imply that the action of sucking cock is a bad thing, but then you defend homosexuality. How can you use it as an insult but then defend it as if you could care less. Here you give us two opposing opinions at once. You advocate for the gays and are trying to defend them, but at the same time you use them as a curse as if they are a lower form of life. I do believe that will need some explaining on your part.

Second are you implying that every creature on earth with genitals lacks self control? Also your making a broad generalization, we cannot just say that they will "rub them up" on everything, especially considering that not everything is rub worthy. A dog would find out very quickly that a trees bark is no good for that action would it not? Not only that but most animals in nature have better things to do for the good majority of the time. That is why there is "breeding season" for most animals, they only mate once a year. If these animals only mate once a year and are only built to mate once a year they are surely not in heat the rest of the year, otherwise there would be no breeding season. If these animals only breed once a year, and then for the rest of the year they are busy hunting, sleeping, and avoiding being hunted I do not believe that they spend most of their time "rubbing up" things.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-13 22:46

>>53
I'm sorry, but you're just not smart enough to be any fun.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-13 23:31

i can't wait until we have a black andogynous bisexual prostitute presiden.

Name: Anonymous 2009-10-13 23:32

t

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-21 6:34

Ten reasons gay marriage is not legal and should not be legal.


01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will makes you tall.

03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets, because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, Infertile couples, and Old people, shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

07) Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we, as a society, expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-22 13:35

>>57

they see me trollin

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-22 15:46

>>58
It's trolling but #6 is a good point.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-22 17:47

6 makes no sense

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-22 17:50

It makes plenty of sense. Your mind is just deluded by the propaganda, that's why it wouldn't at first.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-22 18:05

stop trolling.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-22 18:06

The rest is trolling, but #6 makes some good points.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-22 20:00

uh, no. if you continue the logic in 6, then it would be apparent that those unions SHOULD be allowed, so that they can adopt children in orphanages. seriously, stop trolling.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-22 23:32

No, not trolling. Heterosexual couples produce new children in the world. If going by your logic, homosexual couples still require that heterosexual couples produce children for them to adopt. Therefore gay marriage is flawed as it still requires some kind of relationship between a heterosexual couple to produce the children that they would want to adopt, even if it's just a one night stand.

Unless of course, they never want children in the first place. Civil unions I feel are enough honestly. This gay marriage BS is just one more way to chisel out the traditional family unit. Don't buy into this crap.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 0:23

oh, i read it as the world doesnt need more children, which is actually true.

sorry, didnt see the blatant satire in the post.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 0:50

Yes that is true. That's mostly the third world's fault. The world could use more White children though.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 7:36

>>67
Not if they grow up like you.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 11:23

>>68
Not if "who" "grows up" like me? You do realize that the global European descended population is going to be facing near extinction this century? The other races have more children than they'll need. Let the White folks have some as well so things are more balanced out.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 11:26

>>69
Whites are racist so they should be exterminated.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 11:33

>>70
But I don't advocate the extermination of any other race. So that doesn't make me racist. And I shouldn't be retroactively punished for what my asshole ancestors did.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 20:55

>>69
The white children you want.  That should have been clear.  I guess you believe that being obtuse is some sort of clever literary device.  It's not.  Nor is the use of ridiculous and alarmist statistical projections.  What you fail to realize is that what's important about the "global European descended population"[sic] is its culture, not its color, and if that color is destined to vanish as the result of fatal cultural flaws, then so be it.  The only way to prevent this is to recognize the flaws and correct them.  Blaming others is the folly of the impotent.
>>70
Sounds like you've been staring into the abyss too long.
>>71
"retroactively punished"? No.  But just as you enjoy the fruits of your ancestors successes, you must take responsibility for their mistakes.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 21:34

>>72
I believe that culture is a product of racial attributes. Preserving the race and preserving the culture go hand in hand. I'd object if any other race were suffering from some sort of anti bias against them as well. That to me is real diversity, not the current culture that says that in a few centuries we should all end up looking like one huge mixed race of orange people. That's not "diverse" at all.

global European descended population"[sic]
I'm no grammar expert, but the [sic] indicates that what I wrote is grammatically incorrect in some way. How so?

The only way to prevent this is to recognize the flaws and correct them.  Blaming others is the folly of the impotent.
I never blamed any outside force for this. But there is a lot of anti-White bias in one way or another. Media, film, television, etc.

But just as you enjoy the fruits of your ancestors successes, you must take responsibility for their mistakes.
I'm not being apologetic for their actions, but my ancestors are always being treated like tyrants and selfish aristocrats. This is as if no other race had ancestors that did the same thing. I've noticed that there is a lot of bias towards that, and it shouldn't be like that.

I shouldn't have to feel personally responsible for things that happened centuries ago. I wasn't born then, I didn't participate in them, and I certainly don't agree with them. But I shouldn't have to have a collective and retroactive guilt towards what my ancestors did so many many years ago. That's just simply wrong, and holds back progress.

I do agree that the history should never be forgotten.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 21:41

>>72
Oh forgot to add.

I guess you believe that being obtuse is some sort of clever literary device.  It's not.
There was no clever angle or approach being implied here. I am being sincere in what I say. If you don't believe me, that's fine.

Nor is the use of ridiculous and alarmist statistical projections.
It's not "alarmist". If current immigration levels continue unabated, the global European and European descended population will be .9% by 2090, thus facing extinction.

Everything else, I answered in >>73

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 22:48

>>72
Sounds like your mother is a whore.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 23:33

>>73
Though race may influence some aspects of culture, the idea that "culture is a product of racial attributes" is profoundly inaccurate.  In fact, anthropologically speaking, culture is the manifested phenomena of human beings not related directly to genetics, putting the issue of race right out.  Though both are founded first in response to the environment(geography, climate, diet, etc.)they mostly diverge from there, race remaining mostly constant, and culture continuing to develop based on the groups history, knowledge, beliefs, pursuits, etc.  Personally, as a man who is proud of his culture(mostly), I believe that one of our greatest ideals is that a persons ideals, integrity, and actions are what determine their value.  Not their race, sex, hair, number of fingers, or any other genetically determined circumstance of birth.
"Global European descended population" is verbose and clumsy.  Try Caucasian, or, if you must, the global population of European descent.
Perhaps you don't "blame the niggers and the Jews", but I'm sure you understand why, especially in this place, I made that assumption.  I apologize.  However, the idea that the media has an anti-white bias is simply unsupportable. It's almost exclusively whites who own, control, and produce the media industry in the west.  The media(which includes practically all of the information you are exposed to that does not come from your first hand personal experience) is arguably the most powerful tool in human history, and producing pro-black, or any other kind of positive content about other cultures, races, or ethnicities, is not "anti-white".  Which brings me to my final point.  Our ancestors have been, and often continue to be tyrants and selfish aristocrats.  And no, this is not to say that "other races" haven't had this problem, but the fact is that this, combined with our positive attributes, have made us the most powerful and wealthy people on Earth.  Now lets bring that a little closer to home.  Let's say that before I was born, my Father saw a nice piece of land that some other people were living on.  So he took it.  Violently, killing most of the people living there, and running the rest off to fend for themselves on nearby, less desirable pieces of land.  I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.  My dad builds a nice house, finds gold, has babies and prospers, and all the while takes pot shots at the people he displaced, and tries to convince them that their value is less than his.  Long after he's died, I'm still prosperous, owing mostly to his actions, both positive and negative.  Can I rightfully enjoy that prosperity without taking responsibility for his immoral actions?  The answer is no. Nor can I blame my Father, because I know that he didn't even know that what he did was wrong.  But I know.  And to protect his honor, and my own, it's my responsibility to try to make it right.  The emotion of guilt is irrelevant.  It's about responsibility, and nothing retards progress like a failure to take responsibility.  What do I have to do?  How much is enough?  I don't know.  But I do know that we're not there yet, because many of the descendants of the people that our ancestors used as slaves, and damaged otherwise still show clear scars.  And there are still so many of my fellow whites who continue to damage them.  Sure, we didn't make this bed, but if we want to continue to lie in it, we still have some work to do to make it comfy.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-23 23:50

>>76
I agree with many of your points, but I still believe that preserving the race is a good thing. Yes, my ancestors have most likely done bad things in the past to bring prosperity, and yes it is terrible that it happened. I feel in being responsible, it is not forgetting that. History must never be forgotten, no matter what.

I'm glad that we're having this intellectually stimulating conversation on race and race relations. Instead of the usual "nigger nigger Jew KIKE lol" crap that plagues this board these days. I do feel though that as the media and other information celebrates pro Black or pro another race, they are excluding contributions that Whites have made. I guess in that case then, it's more accurately exclusionary White and not "anti-White". But it still carries with it quite a powerful effect.

But yes, otherwise I am in agreement.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-24 0:13

>>77
Amen Brother!

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-24 0:35

>>74
If the 20th century taught us anything, it's that in the current age very few human activities, much less something as subject to variation as immigration levels, can continue unabated for the better part of a century.  I'm aware of these kinds of projections, and they're of little value.  If you ask me, we're currently on the verge of either leading the world into a technological/trans humanist age that few really appreciate the implications of(in 2 centuries there will be few strictly biological humans left), or of collapsing beneath the weight of eastern powers who are operating out of our 200 year old, antiquated playbook.  You give me hope that it will be the former.  >>75 makes me believe that the latter is inevitable.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-24 1:30

>>79
There's also the third possibility of colonizing other planetary bodies. The beginning of which could very well happen within this century. Private space companies are being setup and their R&D could very well allow us to achieve that.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-24 7:03

Unfettered free trade and open borders would be ideal, but too many people in the 3rd world are political extremists and criminals. So we'll just do free trade until they unfuck themselves.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-24 7:17

>>76
No no no, it's almost exlusively JEWS who own and controll the media.

What you have to realise is that this "guilt" you are feeling is an exclusively white phenomenon, Mongolians still celebrate their "Genghis Khan" who caused up to 100 million foreign deaths, even though he was restricted to bows and arrows at his time. Turks still deny the "Armenian Holocaust" and celebrate their pointless and savage "Ottoman Empire". Moslems still support the slave trade governed by them going from Africa into Arabia, abducting aprox. 30 mil africans, quite a sizeable amount if you compare it the amount seized by europeans. Not to mention that the man worshiped by muslims as the final prophet of their little god, engaged in a variety of actions that would fall in the spectrum of "colonialism" and "savagery" aswell.

This slavery thing is interesting aswell, in all epochs of history, slavery was not at all a questionable thing, slavery was. This of course lasted untill a group of europeans, decided that slavery was baaaad. They then fought a bloody war that claimed half a million dead in order to reinforce this moral sentiment.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-24 10:18

>>82
No no no, you wish it was the Jews.  Then you'd have somebody to blame.  But the truth is that though they may be disproportionately represented throughout the industry, the Forbes list of top 400 media moguls shows how many Jews in the top 15?  Care to guess?  Zero.  Jews are always disproportionately represented in most professions because...why?  Care to guess?  Because they have a higher cultural focus on study.  That would be "book learnin'" to you.  I suggest you try it some time, and quit spreading unsupportable lies.
And regarding "guilt", did you read my post?  You know, the one in which I said "The emotion of guilt is irrelevant",  that it's about responsibility?  Though your history is unreliable, I'll stipulate to all of it, 'cause the fact is that the information you present is irrelevant.  I don't give a damn what anybody else, or any other people are responsible for, or whether they recognize that responsibility.  I concern myself with my own responsibility.  Something that you try desperately to avoid. 
So desperately that you dare mock the immorality of slavery and disparage our commitment to this value.
You are a woefully ignorant and disgusting example of a person.  Do try to be a little more "white" about things.  You're embarrassing the race.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-24 11:09

>>83
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-stein19-2008dec19,0,4676183.column
Marlon Brando, a man who knows quite a bit more about the workings of hollywood than you, my mosaic little friend, expressed the same sentiments aswell.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-24 14:03

Actually I know a lot more about the "workings" of Hollywood than Marlon Brando.  Like the fact that he's been dead for quite a while(thus my currently superior level of expertise), and the fact that Brando was, in addition to being anti semitic,  generally regarded to be kind of nuts, had homosexual affairs, and was an avid civil rights activist.  So not the kind of guy your kind usually like to represent as a fellow. 
So the opinion column... You're actually citing a Jew.  Nice.  The column is mostly tongue-in-cheek, but to save our dear readers some work, here's the most damning quote:"What is true is that there are a lot of Jews in Hollywood," he said. Instead of "control," Foxman would prefer people say that many executives in the industry "happen to be Jewish," as in "all eight major film studios are run by men who happen to be Jewish."  Administrators.  How about the actors?  Directors?  Everyone else?  I've already stipulated to the fact that Jews are disproportionately represented(language I was pleased to see used in your Jew article) and explained why.  Your biggest mistake is your intentionally deceptive implication that Hollywood and the Media are the same thing.  Hollywood is just a part of the media, and most of the major studios are owned by larger media conglomerates(like Time/Warner, Disney, and Viacom) who are owned, and controlled, by good old WASPs.
So here we are again, more sophistry from an impotent, butthurt, little white trash bitch.  Seriously, do yourself a favor, either educate yourself and get some perspective, or go have another coors light and climb back on top of your sister, but stop pretending you have anything of any value to say to anyone.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-24 15:37

>>85
little white trash bitch
"typically Jewish fear and loathing of Anglo-America as the culture of an outgroup"?
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-KaufmannII.html
Perish the tought!

Also... shut up jew

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 3:21

>>86
Your responses are so pathetic that I'm beginning to think that you're an Israeli troll.  Care to cite any more Jews or third rate academics from hate sites?  It sure is easier than thinking all by yourself.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 6:42

>>87
I am not part of this discussion but it's you who started with the "OMG U R A REDNECK WHITE TRASH", and the obnoxious psychoanalysis bullshit.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 7:14

>>88
Ya think?  Maybe you missed >>75's "Sounds like your mother is a whore."  or >>84's "my mosaic little friend" crack. 
Now honestly, do you really believe that my comments are fairly characterized by "OMG U R A REDNECK WHITE TRASH"?  And even if they are, I'm sorry, but racists, anti semites, and all of their White Power/White Nationalist/even BNP are white trash.
I have no idea what you mean by "obnoxious psychoanalysis bullshit", except perhaps that similar accusations of things sounding like gobbledygook are often leveled at writing that is beyond the comprehension of its reader.
At least my comments, and those of most of the respondents, were made within larger relevant posts.  You just decided to drop in and snipe at me.  Do you have anything to contribute?  Are you capable of contributing anything intelligent?

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 7:28

>>89
>>70 here, I wrote >>75. You said "sounds like", so I put it in my reply. Get it?

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 8:10

>>90
I get that.  Now would you care to explain why you believe that obscene belch was an appropriate response?  Did you even understand what I meant?

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 10:11

>>89
Why would anyone want to have discussion with you when you have already decided that all opposing views are "White trash"? The only thing YOU have really contributed is applying not so flattering adjectives to things. Discussion, no thank you son of a whore.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 10:53

>>92
Awwww, poor little martyr...

1.  I'm not here to have discussions.  And neither are you, you disingenuous piece of shit.  In this thread I'm here to combat ignorant hate speech.
2. The kind of racism and anti semitism that I've been arguing against does come from white trash.  They all may not shop at Wallmart in dirty sweats, and have a refrigerator on the porch, but they are damn sure intellectually backward, and their actions damage the greater good.  I'm just calling a spade a spade.
3.  My contributions have dealt with facts, effectively refuted every argument presented, and when read throughout, have pretty much kicked the shit out of all comers. 

You got anything else, punk?  Tell some more lies, misrepresent my words, and cite somebody else's work?  Maybe talk some more shit about my Mother and call me a Jew?  Grow up. Learn to be a Man. 
And Merry Christmas.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 11:49

>>91
The only difference between,

"Sounds like you've been staring into the abyss too long."

and

"Sounds like your mother is a whore."

is that I wrote it afterwards for ironic effect. I am in fact a deep intellectual while you are ignorant uneducated (despite ample opportunities provided for you by this nation's socialists at the expense of taxpaying workers) ghetto trash only capable of obscene belches.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 20:40

>>94
Hmmmmm... Deep intellectual.  Yeah.  Um... yeah.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-25 22:38

>>95
That's right.

Don't change these.
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