Return Styles: Pseud0ch, Terminal, Valhalla, NES, Geocities, Blue Moon. Entire thread

What's up with this gay marriage bs?

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 13:30

We're supposed to be the most tolerant nation in the world electing a nigger president but we STILL can't let people marry because of their genders in more than six states? Every single argument I hear about any law regarding banning gay marriage or leaving it illegal is fucking retarded.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 16:43

Same sex marriage is the proper term. "Gay marriage" discriminates against bisexuals and transgendered people. You're a bigot, OP.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 18:53

90% of the human race is retarded, irrational, delusional, and willfully ignorant. The vast majority of them are violent, impatient, intolerant jerks. We call them "religious people".

The other 10% isn't much better.

This explains every human problem ever.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 20:54

>>3
Yeah, especially atheists. Worst religion ever, Stalin and Mao killed over 100 million people in the 20th century because their atheist god told them to.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 23:25

And atheists can't even cover up the many flaws in their religion with "God says so.  You have a problem with it, take it up with Him."  Atheists have absolutely no reason to support marriage at all, gay or otherwise.  At least the theists don't have to be logically consistent.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 2:20

>>4
>>5
0/10.

Poe's Law doesn't apply to 4chan.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 4:19

protip : Their gender is not the problem. It's the legal side of this that's hindering this in most countries.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 5:51

Marriage used to be a way of getting men to stay with their wives and support their kids but now with the child support and welfare it's pretty much obsolete. Gay marriage is pointless because the entire institution of giving tax breaks to couples and sexist pre-nuptial agreements is retarded to begin with.
>>6
Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your atheist fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 7:13

>>8
Is some other word being wordfiltered to "atheist"? What's going on, here?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 19:03

>>9
Just one person who doesn't understand

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 22:50

>>9
No. I am referring to atheists. It seems you are so far gone down the "BEING AN ATHEIST MEANS IM ALWAYS LOGICAL AND RIGHT" line you cannot even comprehend the very idea that you've turned atheism into yet another religion.
>>10
Understand what? That atheist wizardry is the true way?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 1:37

>>9
Welcome to 4chan. That's what we call a troll. See >>6.

Poe's Law states that religious fundamentalism is indistinguishable from successful trolling. Both are retarded, both take pride in staggering ignorance, neither makes any fucking sense at all, etc.

This doesn't apply on 4chan, though, because the default assumption is that we're all just trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls with varying degrees of success. Threads like this only progress because we all know we're being trolled, but we're bored enough to continue the troll fest.

Feel free to feed the trolls if you're bored, but it's more fun to troll real fundies that actually believe this shit rather than trying to troll trolls trolling you.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 10:10

>>12
NO U

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 20:52

>>12
Yeah! Since you're here to prove how "smrt" you are, you'd be better off contrasting yourself with inbred hicks instead of people who can crush you in logical debate in a heart beat. What better way to reinforce the atheist delusion?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 22:41

>>14
Trolled.

Also, drop the ad hominem attacks if you want to be taken seriously. Otherwise, you will be considered a simple troll rather than someone who actually wants to have an intelligent discussion.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-02 23:08

>>15 intelligent discussion

Carefag detected.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 4:04

The people voted. This is a democracy. Discussion over. Move on.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 6:17

>>15
Actually it's logically justified. You made yourself the subject at hand by claiming your faggy little atheist religion is justified because you are a self-avowed pseudo-intellectual douche with a massive superiority complex and an elitist attitude.

Feel free to change the topic when you're tired of having your ass handed to you.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 11:25

Homos can be buttbuddies in marriage no problem in england.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 15:41

>>8

Why does every atheist live in a fantasy world? What about the atheists who don't act like fucking douchebags?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 15:41

>>8

Why does every atheist live in a fantasy world? What about the atheists who don't act like fucking douchebags?

Name: Priest Joe 2009-06-03 15:55

I now pronounce you husband and... uhhhh... wha... I mean... fuck this shit, I'm outta here.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 21:45

>>19
Just get your dick in my ass now!

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-03 22:00

>>21
No one is omnipotent so we are all deluded and ignorant to a certain extent, thus the best measure of someone's sanity is whether they can admit they are fallible or not.

Atheism demands a complete denial of god's existence so it is pretty much a dogma.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-04 23:56

>>24

That's not true. There are 6 sects of Atheism, if you will.

First, division into strong and weak, and then subdivisions of militant, theoretical and practical. Strong atheists are the ones that completely deny existence of a god. Weak atheists (like myself) do not completely deny, we just believe that there is not one.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-07 18:42

>>17
The Constitution says all men are created equal. Why do we get to choose which rules that govern us get followed correctly? All this whining about you Conservafags not getting your votes counted but you're breaking the precious piece of paper you suck dick from 16 hours a day.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-10 22:28

>>4

4/10
Horrible attempt. Fortunately for you 4chan is 90% retards.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-10 22:29

Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your christian fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-10 22:29

Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your muslim fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-10 22:30

Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your jew fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-11 8:42

>>28-30
Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your atheist fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-22 17:18

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-22 19:00

>>31
Wow, stop crying. It's not my fault you find the real world with all it's unpredictability to be terrifying instead of stimulating, if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go back to your dungeons and dragons fantasy world where you can pretend you've found a little rule book that infallibly distinguishes fact from fiction.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-22 19:01

>>32
Good point, thanks.  I hadn't thought of it that way before.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-23 4:39

The bible is not against gay marriage. fucking read it you illiterates.

A) The Ceremonial Law of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy no longer applies. Because of what is written in the book of Galatians and Paul's writings in the second chapter of Colossians, we have clear declarations that the ceremonial law is now in the field of Christian liberty. Paul uses a variety of examples to declare this and lists several portions of the law, following with the declaration that all of it was nailed to the Cross and has been removed. This belief is backed up further by the book of Romans and the speeches at the council of Jerusalem in Acts (Chapter 15), along with selected sayings by Christ concerning ceremonial practice. If we decide to pick and choose portions of the ceremonial law to continue in observance as God's will without clear relation of those parts to the commandments of God referenced in Romans, James and Revelations, then we place ourselves in danger of the ban of Galatians 1:8.

If this is the case, and most of you will find that your pastors will agree with this, unless you are members of the Seventh-day Adventist or similar denominations, then we have a big problem in the debate of homosexual sex as a sin. The problem is simple: The two clearest declarations of homosexual sex as a sin in the Bible are found in chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus. If the ceremonial law no longer applies, then neither do these.

B) Sodom and Gomorrah do not pertain to homosexual sex, and the same can be said of the related story in Judges. The sins of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are clearly huge. Have you ever seen a city in your lives where the whole male population tried to batter down doors so that they could gang rape guests to the city? I apologize for being so blunt and almost crude, but the point is not a pleasant one, and neither is the story. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were sinful beyond our understanding. These were foul places where such extreme forms of rape were accepted and where the closest thing to a righteous man offers up his daughters to their lusts. Further, the issue also comes up that this is a story more about the complete lack of hospitality and the brutality of the citizens. It is reading too far into the text to say that this passage says anything about homosexual sex. It is speaking of extreme cases that do not apply to homosexual sex.

(Note: Ezekiel 16 is the passage which refers to the sins of Sodom/Gomorrah)

C) The argument of creation (God created them Adam and Eve, so they are meant to be complimentary) suffers from a massive weakness. In chapter three of Genesis, we are told why a man leaves his father and mother to become one flesh with the woman that he loves. We are told similar things in chapter five of Paul's letter to the Ephesians. However, neither passage declares that this must be the only thing. Paul also speaks elsewhere of the joys of celibacy. This indicates that marriage is not required. Without proof that homosexual sex is considered a sin, there is no reason to automatically assume that "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" is actually said in Scripture. The passages only say why heterosexual marriages occur, not that they must be the only ones.

In fact, an important point must be made. Scripture speaks clearly about the need to save sex for marriage. If the Bible has not declared homosexual sex or marriage as sinful, then we have done a vast disservice in refusing homosexual couples the right to marriage. We are, in effect, trying to force them into sinful relationships out-of-wedlock.

D) There are three passages that may speak on homosexual sex in the New Testament. Two are lists of sins, found in chapter six of Paul's first letter to the Corinthians and chapter one of his first letter to Timothy. The third, and most important, passage is found in the first chapter of Paul's letter to the Romans.

1) The two lists are poorly translated in the cases of homosexuality. Three words are found in these passages that are used to relate to homosexual sex: Pornia, Arsenokoitas and Malakoi. Pornia means pervert. That's all it really means. It refers to sexual perversion, but makes no statement as to what that perversion is. It is far too general to relate to homosexual sex. Malakoi refers to softness or effeminacy, with implications of perversion. The term is used to refer to a man who is too passionate and emotional, and who acts upon these. It relates to the Grecian concepts of gender identity. The man was not to be emotional in this fashion. If one stretches the meaning of the word, examples are found where Malakoi may refer to the 'bottom' partner of pederasty. This is a relationship wherein a teenage boy traded sexual favors with an older man in return for guidance and training. It was common within Greek society and accepted in Roman society. Arsenokoitas is a compound word derived from the Greek words for man and bed. While this sounds like a clear reference to homosexuality to our modern ears, there is a problem. The word does not appear at any point prior to Paul's letters. To our knowledge, he created the term himself. Its usage in all other cases I am aware of either represents something akin to an aggressive sexual predator or, more commonly, the "top" partner in pederasty. At most these verses could possibly have listed pederasty as a crime, but not homosexual sex alone. You cannot read into the text the fact that, because something condemned includes another thing, that other thing is automatically condemned as well. For example, a person who breaks the commandment about not bearing false testimony against one's neighbor must communicate to do so. Communication is not condemned, is it? The condemnation of pederasty cannot be clearly related, even in consideration of Jewish morals that Paul is familiar with, to a condemnation of homosexual sex. Look at http://www.clgs.org/5/5_4_3.html for further details on the specifics of Arsenokoites and Malakoi.

2) Romans 1:18-32 is the key to the argument. However, there are a series of problems with the classic interpretation of the passage.

One, we rarely take verses 26-27 in context with the rest of the passage. The lusts spoken of are the result of godlessness and the refusal of the gospel of God. The godless ones are described as being given over to their passions. This loss of control is key and important to the Greeks and Romans Paul is writing to, and was considered a very bad thing. It is important to realize that the passage is not centered on homosexual relations, no matter how you interpret it.

Two, the relationships are referred to as being unnatural. The term pushin is the Greek word for natural and refers, in general, to that which is according either to socially accepted morals or to one's innate nature. The society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexual relationships to be quite natural. What would have been considered unnatural to the Romans would specifically have been something where a citizen was 'on bottom.' Such a position degrades the citizen's status and was considered to be a horrible thing.

Three, the shameful lusts that are spoken of are not specifically described. Unlike Leviticus, where they are listed, the passage assumes that its audience knows what is being spoken of. While Paul is a born and trained Jew, familiar with the ceremonial law, he is preaching to newly converted Christians in Rome and Greece. These people, though somewhat familiar with Jewish beliefs, could not have been considered familiar enough to assume that "shameful lusts" meant what is said in Leviticus. Paul is not a man to leave explanations unclear. When necessary, he goes into great detail and repetition to make his point absolutely clear and understood. Therefore, by context it seems he is speaking to the Roman's understanding of shameful, the subjugation of a citizen for example. Further, pathos (lusts) does not necessitate a sexual connotation.

Four, the fact that we have women doing things with women instead of men and that we have men doing things with men instead of women is clear from what Paul says in verses 26-27. However, Paul does not at any point say what is being done. He lacks the clarity of Leviticus. Any number of things could be occurring, and without a clear indication that the text is specifically speaking of homosexual sex acts on any level we are familiar with today we cannot claim that Romans 1 clearly declares that the ceremonial law still applies in this case.

My arguments are quite basic. This is only an overview of them. I have far more detailed descriptions of the issues involved and will happily offer them. This argument is also not new. You can find websites offering similar interpretations themselves. I came to these conclusions, however, through prayer and consideration with friends, not a website. These positions, also, are hardly universally accepted. There is strong evidence in both directions with regards Romans 1. Some churches still make the claim that parts of the ceremonial law remain intact. There are strong arguments both for and against this.

My single greatest point is this: Can you honestly declare something a sin when you cannot clearly show without serious contention that the Bible declares it to be a sin? When we look at the Ten Commandments, we know basically what they say and don't argue over them. Christ further explains them during his life, giving us more information about what they mean. We know these things to be sins, and there is little debate. Homosexual sex is found in the ceremonial laws and what few verses speak of it outside of that set of laws are hotly contested. How can we clearly state, based upon these facts, that homosexuality is indeed a sin?

No. I don't think it's wrong, and I'll be happy to stand on Scripture to that effect.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-23 9:45

>>33
anyone who still plays dungeons and dragons in the age of WOW must be some kind of ultranerd
>>35
Open to interpretation, I interpret it as exploit the proletariat so I can live in opulent splendor.

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-30 9:57

JUST LET THE COEDS MARRY

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-30 12:06

>>1
* African American

Name: Anonymous 2009-09-30 15:11

Every gay marriage argument is so weak. Good luck with your choice being protected by law.

Newer Posts
Don't change these.
Name: Email:
Entire Thread Thread List