America kills innocent civilians

And you Americans all condone it. What a bunch of savages.

We are doing it because God wants us to do it. 

If being as savage is wrong, then I don't wanna be right. :P

My lifestyle really is a savage, brutish one.  I wake up each morning in a soft warm bed, in a temperature controlled house.  I'm usually hungry so I go hunting.  For my fridge.  Whatever I eat, it's usually tasty and in some cases good for me.  Afterward I savagely use running water and toothpaste to brush my teeth.  Then I take a shower, using gallons of pure, clean water to keep myself from smelling like an old sock that's been jizzed in and left in the sun.  During the school year I go to a nice safe university where I learn the savage ways of accounting, media ethics, and *gasp* English.  At noon I find the nearest food vendor and savagely order, pay for, and eat what is usually a cheeseburger.  I then stand up and proclaim that I hate all things and all people and that the military should do more to destroy them.  Then it's back to class, savagely.  In the evenings I eat again.  Because as a savage I'm morally bound to eat three meals a day (fuck praying 5 times a day, that shit sucks).  I spend the rest of the evening watching savage television programs, fapping savagely to hentai, and making fun of stupid fucks.  Then I drift off to sleep as bullets don't fly over my head and as cultured islamabombers don't blow themselves up across the street.

At the expense of third world countries who get paid shit, and pollutant byproducts dumped into water sources from the companies you rely on. 

>>4
lol, hippy.  How's your quality of life?  You seem to be on the interweb?  I wonder how you have access to it.  You must be peacefully sitting somewhere in quite, totally self-reliant tribal village using a steam powered generator to create the electricity for your wooden laptop.  Oh wait, that's silly, you're just a dumb faggot using his parent's Dell.  Do they know you browse 4chan?

>>4
Third world countries we abuse like Vietnam and north Korea.

Hey... Compare those countries to South Korea and Singapore and it is obvious you must be completely wrong and socialism is a grand failure!

We rest on others' poverty.

>>7
No, we rest on our ability to use the market to our advantage. Other's are impoverished by their inability to either produce a managable economy, or by their inability to not pick dictators as leaders.

Either way, it's not our problem.

hmm, and i suppose you would have acted a lot different?? Your friend that youve been serving w/ gets blown up out of nowhere and you dunno where it came from and you what? wait and ask questions? no you shoot first ask questions later. Its unfortunate but im not going to condemn those soldiers who are out there doing what others like yourself are not willing to.  So fuck off

>>7
so are you.  wheter you are right or wrong you have to realize you are living in a glass house before you start throwing stones.  Most liberals in the media don't realize this, and you don't either.  you are living off of them as well.  there is no such thing as a classless society in the world, and ther never has.  only THEORIES of potential classless societies exist, nothing has ever succeded.  there will allways be poor, even if you gave the poor money, they would still be poor.  You realize in america even our welfare bums get to have telivision and cable.  does that mean they aren't poor.  no it means they are getting that much more given to them without earning it.

>>1
china is killing innocent civilians as well, and in much larger numbers than america could if it wanted to.  we just don't have acess to that many.  and give us a case of a particular civilian we have killed ON PURPOSE.  we don't have civilian season like we have deer season.  How many civilains did the World Trade Center terrorist attack kill??  how are we more evil than them???  where are you from and what prospective are you looking at us from????  there are much worse people than us in the world, we get the bad rap because were are the bigest kid on the block, not cause we bully others the most.

>>7
see >>6

Why is south korea rich if it is occupied by the US army? Surely if the US was evil it would turn it into a giant slave camp stripping resources for the homeland. If you want to find the real cause of poverty, look at your own ideals! Socialism causes poverty because it is one big lie by despots who want the government to own everything including people.

wow >>7 got a lot of responses. Excellent socialist trolling, now say something about Finland.

Finland blows

France Sucks Finland

>>10
>and give us a case of a particular civilian we have killed ON PURPOSE

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5030960.stm

"Iraq will investigate allegations that US marines carried out a massacre of civilians in Haditha in November, the country's prime minister has said."

Fucking savages.

too true

The Corporation explains it well. 

oh well, at the end of the day they're still durkas

>>15
Do you honestly care?  Or are you just trying to sit yourself upon a throne of morals and righteousness so you can look down upon others and feel good about yourself?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_imperialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Man%27s_Burden

>>19

yes i do care. i saw on the news about the soldier who was ordered to collect the bodies of those victims including a young girl shot through her head. he was mentally scarred and his mom couldn't stopped crying in the interview.

>>1
Fuck you.
Do you have any idea how many people live in America?  Who are you to make sweeping generalizations about us?  Do you even know any Americans personally?  What do you know about Americans?  Nothing except what the media tells you, and if you believe everything in the media you're an idiot.
Fuck you for saying we are savages.  Fuck you for buying into the idea that an entire nation is base and without emotions.

http://www.refuseandresist.org/resist_this/041998somalia.html
http://www.atimes.com/koreas/BG13Dg01.html

>>15

     Yes yes, i read that and my response in your other thread was
   "yay investigate.  and if they did it take the ones responsible and put them in front of a fireing squad.  thats what you do with animals.  just like what you do with the animals they were sent there to get rid of in the first place.  I am not going to defend them if they did it.  but they did it not america.  It's war and attrocities happen, and those that order the attrosities should be eliminated.  that doesn't mean the war was unjust."

      do you know what this means.  it means that it is war.  there are casualties and victims.  those that become victims need protected and there is no question about that.  however that doesn't mean the war should end.  it means those wrongdoers on both sides should be punnished.  there has never been a war where there hasn't been evil commited on each side.  but the wars go on.  and do you really blame only america for killing everyone in the world??? answer whether you really belive we kill more people than everyone else.

South Korea is more succesful than North Korea because the USA is good.

>>1
>>2
>>4
>>7
>>15
>>16
>>17
>>18
>>20
>>21
Troll/same person

The USA isn't perfect, but it's better than some other fucktards that have and still exist. Most people who posted here are dumb or pretending ot be dumb, the US army's acts of brutality are unexcusable and thhe murderers should be considerred traitors and not excused. However the US has deposed Saddam Hussein and has not taken Iraq's sovereignty like Saddam tried to do to Kuwait and the CCCP tried to do to Afghanistan. It is a temporary occupation for the better good of the people of Iraq, shit like this happenning is nothing compared to decades of tyranny under Saddam's dynasty.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
   
    John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)
This is one of my favorite quotes because it remains true to day and >>1 is the person that better men are keeping free and predictably all he can do is bitch.

American Savages? Sure Jerks, morons and assholes exist everywhere.  Japanese throw themselves and their children from buildings, Israelis shoot Palestinians-shoot Israelis. We've only been around for 230 years, The french twice made the streets of their own capital run with blood, first the huguenots and then the 'anti-revolutionists'  No country is without sin in the mass killing market.
Does 'America' order some people dead? Sure, why not, if they are aiming to mass kill the people of the US.
Do 'Americans' indiscriminately kill others, Sure the occasional mass murderer, but again not alone in the world, Japanese boy killed a younger boy once and left his head in front of the elementary school.  Don't get me started on African or Muslim mass murderers. 

>>28
It is human nature, it doesn't matter whether American, France, Muslim, or whatever

>>29
habeeb it.

>>27
John Stuart Mill for the win!

Why isn't utilitarianism very popular?

>>27
British Imperialism ftw, oh wait its dead

>>32
Back then Britain was actually hawt and big Empire. Too bad it's now pretty much dying country nowadays.

>>15

Yea, but the main difference between the U.S military and the militaries of our enemies is that........................

OUR MILITARY ACTUALLY CONSIDERS KILLING CIVILIANS A CRIME!!!!

>>21

     EXACTLY  you saw a AMERICAN SOILDER who in your words

   "who was ordered to collect the bodies of those victims including a young girl shot through her head. he was mentally scarred and his mom couldn't stopped crying in the interview."

        your own words PROVE that we aren't all mindless savages and that even our soldiers aren't.  that was a work by individuals not america as a whole.  while we have to take responsibility for sending those individuals into that situation where they did that.  we are not all to blame for the death of those people.

http//news.yahoo.com/...

A preliminary military inquiry found evidence that U.S. Marines killed two dozen Iraqi civilians in an unprovoked attack in November, contradicting the troops' account, U.S. officials said on Wednesday.

is this really the only instance you can find.  y is this instance the only one you show us that all americans are monsters.  i mean shouldn't there be hundreds of reports like this one??

You want monsters? Look at what some of the chinese soldiers are doing to their own people. Oh yeah, you can't because they won't fucking tell you.

>>38

oh boo hoo, that's not a excuse for American behavious is it.

>>39

If you actually believe in what you're saying, you're a retard.

     WE AREN'T TRYING TO EXCUSE THE BEHAVIOR OF CRIMINALS ON OUR SIDE.  all we are saying is that we atleast don't promote those actions by our soldiers while other nations do.  our soldiers do far less than those of other nations, not to mention if you factior in army size and figure our soldier to violent ciminal act ratio we fall far below any nation that has a substantially active military.  WE ARE SIMPLY ASKING WHY YOU PICKED US OUT OF ALL THE NATIONS ON EARTH AND SAID "ITS ALL THEM".  I understand that you hate america and that we are so well off, fine.  if you are american you hate america an feel guilty about being so well off, fine.  just don't confuse jelousy and guilt for evidence that america is all evil all the time.

>>41

If you actually believe in what you're saying, you're a retard.

>>42
I believe it. I think most of the hate for America is unjustified. Ik ben een Nederlander BTW.

I think you're all morons. Your undying loyality to the ideals of your country (or political party) is a pathetic misplacement of your core values. You guys are still using cold war rhetoric (socialism fails, capitalism fails, communism fails) to address problems that very simply go beyond which system we used to the govern the people.

I think one guy hit the nail on the head when he said that once a group of people ok a certain kind of behavior- then it becomes truth. "It's human nature" no longer serves as an adequate excuse when you know that what's being done is not only ethically wrong, but overall determental to the survival of the "humaness" of the species (it's spirt and it's soul - what it means to even BE human).

Every day you ignore the higher brain functions and resort to the primate and reptailan way of thinking- you send mankind further away from "humaness" and closer to being likened to animals. There is a choice. There is a difference between us and beasts.

Acts and reactions from both sides are a product of not human nature, but the nature of beasts.

>>44
Translation:
All other [insert random ideals/religions here] suck on assholes.

Become a [insert random ideal/religion here] instead!


Face it, there is no true way, just a load of stupid ass ways and the one you think is not stupid ass.

The only reason why democracy works is because people contend their stupid ways with words instead of bombs and bullets, it's not because democracy comes to the right conclusions.

>>44
You sound like a Christian. Fucking failure.

>>44
STFU STUPID CHRISTIAN THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SOULS AND FREE WILL WE ARE ALL MACHINES WE DON'T ESIST NOTHING EXIST WE ARE BUT A BLACK MELANCHOLY CHIMERA OF DOOOOOMMMM!!!!

Replace "it's spirt and it's soul" with "life" and it's a good argument

>>44
>Acts and reactions from both sides are a product of not human nature, but the nature of beasts.
Are you really surprised, with all the people admitting they are furries?

All people from all nations are savages!!  Especially the ones who aren't in the military!
I know so cause I read this article in newspaper and it said that people got killed by soldiers in a war zone!  And then no body made a big fucking deal about it, so I know now that all those people from that nation are evil and heartless!!!111.

>>1 and any other people who think Americans are bad are stupid for making assumptions and generalizing about millions of people they don't even know.  Fuck you.

>>50
hi5!

>>45

You're not getting it. There is a common thread of decency and ethical common sense that comes *before* "random ideals and religions". It takes a circumstance for one to throw those ideas out. This doesn't have anything to do with religion. I'm talking about simple fucking co-existence. I'm referring towards reaching at something else other than trying to make your world view win out over others. If you reply with some bullshit about 'oh this is just you trying to say your ideals are better' --- then you are apart of the problem!!! Not only do you acknowledge and agree to playing the game of "let's see who I can make live by my rules" but you accuse me of playing that same game and you're basically telling me: "NO *I'm* going to win!" ---This is the paranoid state we live in.

>>46

Christianity? Hahaha. Ok. Part of the reason we are the way we are in this 'modern era' is due to Christianity- more to a point- "The Dark Ages". The problem with this is that many of you are under the impression that because we have the internet, civil rights and can vote...that we're out of the Dark ages.

Guess what: We're not.

yah, how so?

>>53
serious if you have to ask how that is- that's part of the Dark Ages' ignorace playing out.

>>52
>>54
zOMG there's still warz going on?!!1  This must be teh Dark Ages +2!111

Sorry we're not living in the 'world of tomrrow,' but this era is far from "dark."  Certainly there are plenty of stupid fuckers out there (lots of them in the middle east), but considering science is rapidly advancing in the areas of genetics and nanotechnology as well as many other important things, we're doing alright.

Maybe after some stupid fuck unloads an EMP weapon upon the world we might experience some dark times.

>>55
Do you suck dick or take it up the ass?

>>55

You simply do not understand.

The delusion that "we're doing alright" is apart of the condition of habitual ignorance that comes from living in a dark age. The notion that you think I'm merely referring to "wars", is more ignorance again. We are living in an era of Trahsion De Clerc. Translation: Treason of the Clerics, a phrase that came *gasp* FROM THE DARK AGES. Even our scientists, politicians and greatest intellectuals are being turned into commodities and in turn, making their own bid for controlling someone else's world view.

Scientist no longer merely put forth ideas or give skeptism, they imply policy- make implications about the way humans should live and be ruled.

This is the shit I'm referring to and this is the shit that has to stop. "It's human nature" isn't no long an excuse or a reason. A huge part of what it means to be human is to defy logic, nature and sometimes "reason". Human nature is decided by us- we are not animals, we do have a choice.

>>52
You have a good point here. I didn't understand what you meant in your earlier post, but now I see what you're getting at. It's the current nature of people that of two opposing views, one has to "win", correct? When there's a discussion between people with different opinions, one side has to WIN and that is the one most people will be rooting for. Like it's a football match. There's hardly any discussion being done for the sake of sharing different viewpoints, it's all a battle to see which side is "superior". Live and let live is a concept that has lost out too many times, I guess.

if we're going to start to judge others based on whatever group they fit into and what individuals in that group have done then sure we can assume that americans kill innocent civilians. We can also agree that the muslim religion is extremely violent and all members will strap bombs to themselves or buildings or hijack airplanes to kill anyone not muslim, i'm only going by what i've seen right?

>>58
>>59

Now you're getting it. :)

>>60
"You guys agree with my world view.  You're alright!"

>>61

You stating this, is you trying to "win". What your dense faggot-brain can't seem to comprehend is that I'm not endorsing any world view. If so then you should have no problem in telling me what my world view is. At the MOST all I'm doing is asking people to *think* in a civil manner. I haven't outlined any policies, I haven't suggested any different systems of government, I haven't given anyone a model to live by. I just brought forth a single fucking thought. And the ONLY reason it irks you is because you are operating under the DELUSION that I'm trying to threaten your or someone's else way of life or world view. But, I'm not. Like I said: If you're >>53 then you are apart of your own problem. The only reason human conflict is apart of human nature is because we (you) will it so. We have the ability to change. That's all I'm saying and I frankly don't see where that comes off as representing a world view or controlling the views of others. 

>>62
Well, I'm not 53, and quite frankly I'm amused, not irked.  Maybe I'm just a jerk, but it's funny how upset you are.  And I think you're wrong.  Our 'nature' is highly engrained into every fiber of our beings.  Changing millions of years worth of programming and instict is going to take a little more than willing it to be.  Human conflict in particular.  People without gifts/advantages will always envy who do have them.  And those who are gifted will never really understand those who aren't.  And for one person to gain something, another person somewhere, must lose it.  It's a condition of living in a world of limited things and resources.  And if you think there's some magical solution to curing Greed, Envy, Hatred, and other such things you're living in a world of idealism.
Now, that said, I must mention that at heart I really am a humanist.  I believe that ALL people have incredible potential and a limitless capasity for growth.  But, the human race isn't going to change over night.

>>63

...and how does this apply at all to what I've been saying? Do you even know? I never said change would be easy, but it's defeatist to say that we will never change. By virtue of the nature of change and the nature of evolution itself- the human race *has* to change and *has* changed from being cavemen. Did I say it would be easy? No. Did I say with would be soon? No.

You're talking all this bollocks about human conflict, gifts/advantages, envy, greed, hatred, pride. These are *human* emotions and *human* ideals- taking these things and making them an irreversable or even attaching a negative connotation on them in the first place- is the type of stuff I'm talking about.

Well, the way you're bitching about it, it seems like you want it to change immediately.

>>64
Also, you seem to imply that fighting and human conflict are wrong and that they need to go away; that people should no longer find them acceptable.  Then you try to tell me that giving them a negative connotation is somehow wrong.  Well by the very nature of those actions they are negative.

chinese soldier slaughter fellow chinese and now practicing hard to do it to foreigner, American is already good in slaughtering foreigners and doesnt seem to be very fond about slaughtering fellow american, which one is better? you decide

"You want monsters? Look at what some of the chinese soldiers are doing to their own people. Oh yeah, you can't because they won't fucking tell you."

Source?

China doesn't claim to be "the protector of freedom" however. That's the main difference. America doesn't practice what it preaches.

ya all we do is free people from oppressive regimes and evil dicatators. What a bunch of goddamned hippocrites!

So your saying it's alright to be a massmurderer as long as you don't claim to be something else.  and if you claim to be a "protecor of freedom" you better be as clean as a virgin clit or you will get attacked on every little thing you do wrong.  Ok, i get it.

>>71
Neither is acceptable, but people with self-righteous airs are far more annoying (especially when they believe their own bullshit).

Well it's better to believe your own bullshit and expect others to believe it too, than to disbelieve your own bullshit and still expect others to believe it.

And it's even better if you don't believe your bullshit and don't expect others to either. Think about it.

>>74.  Actually I guess what I really meant is that everyone has their little corner of the bullshit market covered.  And I would rather hear from the christian that believes in creationism, the vegan that believes in animal liberty, or the environmental nutjob that believes in not burning any fosial fuels, than 1 high ranking scientologist, Celebrity PeTA member, televised Psyhic, or televangellist/faith healer.  There is a huge difference if preaching the bullshit that you actually believe, and taking advantage that people will believe the bullshit that you are feeding them.  Although, to be completely honest, I often have the urge to try to start my own cult just to see if I can(not an insane suicide cult, just a "you will worship me" cult).  We all have that little piece of bullshit that helps us get though the day.  We all have our little diluted fantasy.  Just because you keep yours quiet, or don't preach it as loudly, doesn't mean others don't have the right to.  Despite what many believe I don't think the complete abolishment of religion will make human societies somehow different, and certianlly not magially better.  People will simply attach their faith to new things, equally as dangerous.

>>65

If that's the way you comprehended it, then that your fucking problem. Unless I actually say something, then guess what? It hasn't been said by me, you dumbfuck.

>>66

The thing I'm implying is that there are human conflicts that lack reason. Like >>75 says, it's for the most part- been bullshit. These are bullshit wars fought for bullshit reasons and everyone seems to acting like the war in Iraq, the psychologically and economical war on socialism, communism are actual meaningful conflicts and *actually* the war against Tyranny, Dictators and systems of government that do not work. But they're not- they're really not.

>>39
No, it's not an excuse. However there is no excuse for refusing to fight tyranny. If you are standing in shit and have to walk through a field of shit to get out, it is better to walk through the shit than to continue standing in it. Thus it is better to get rid of tyranny than to stand and watch them abuse their citizens. You mights get your trousers coverred in shit as you slosh through, but it's better than standing there forever.

>>77

I don't see America attacking China or Zimbabwe. What happenned to  there not being excuse for refusing to fight tyranny.

Also the OP was about the massacre that is taking place in Iraq right now by the American soldiers.

>>76
So tell me, what is a good reason for a war?
And don't you dare give me some bullshit like, "There is never a good reason for war."

>>78
It's really difficult to fight a war on more than 1 or 2 fronts.
That and China is a bit different.  They have a horrible government, but it's bound to change eventually considering their growing economy.  Also, fighting China would be fucking insane.

In the case of the middle east, there's almost no fuckig chance of reform unless someone for the outside interviens.  If you left the middle eat alone for 100 years it would still be a shit hole ruled by despotic mad men.

>>80

Something that poses an existential threat to all of mankind. For example- if our ozone is paper thin and the rest of the world has committed itself to never using oil again and so on and let's just say CHINA is still doing nuclear tests and letting high emissions into the atomsphere- then we go to war. And try and demantle their infrastructure if diplomacy doesn't work.

If someone is planning to take over the whole world, no matter WHO it is or WHAT system of government they use- then we go to war. If there's mass genocide (racial, religions, any reason), then we go to war.

We do not go to war to spread our system governments, we do not go to war to cover our asses economically, we don't go to war because we need to protect our natural resources-interests. These are bullshit reasons to go to war.

I mean come on, they should be pretty obvious. And even WHEN we go to war we should weild our power with wisdom, patience, restraint and be able to treat our enemies with some fucking dignity- instead of resorting to petty racism, propgandist smear tactices, critiques of their culture and society, etc etc etc. Things, I might add, that we frequently accuse the enemy of to this very day.

And to conclude this, there are realistically in an 'adult world' there are Very, VERY few instances where war or the inklings of war were even nessacary, history tells us this over and over and over. Isn't it about time we looked at things differently?

If you left the middle eat alone for 100 years it would still be a shit hole ruled by despotic mad men.

BZZZZZZZZZZZ. WRONG.

It is because we didn't leave the middle east alone that it turned into a shit hole ruled by despotic mad men. Who do you think the Saudis are? The greatest democratic minds of our era? GET A FUCKING CLUE ALREADY.

>we are not animals, we do have a choice.
Actually, we are animals. gb2/elementary school kthxbai

>>everyone that is saying that "america isn't going here or here where there is a facist regime, a dictator, or a political terrorist,  would you really shut up if we went to those places, or would you just bitch more? 

>>85 ultimate truth, these people are the ultimate paradox, no matter what they say, and no matter what you do you're wrong

>>85
 ultimate fail.
this doesn't nothing to address the fact that there are far more pressing dictators and political terrorist threats than Iraq. Darfur poses the biggest threat to America's image as anti-facist to date. You guys can bitch all you want, but the inactivity is just plain fucking wrong. we shouldn't be in Iraq. we should be in Saudi Arabia, maybe Iran, we should be kicking all of the Arabs out of North Africa. instead your argument is basically: "you hippies are the ultimate paradox so stfu". this isn't about hippies, you dumb fucks. why is that so fucking hard to understand? are you going against common sense and obvious ethics just so you can stand out? so you can feel special?

>>87
But how would american celebrities have a chance to look charitable if the US solved all the problems in the world? You have to think about these things, people must suffer so celbrities look charitable when the US finally helps them. That's how she goes.

>>88
LOL, This one speaks the truth.

>>82
      So we don't go to war to spread our government politics but we do go to war to spread our environmental policies and other politics.  That is just compareing apples to oranges.  You have the right to run your nation however you want as long as you run it the way we tell you.  You just want everyone to go to war on your issues and not somebody elses.  And it is a bad example anyways.  If the rest of the world decided to stop using and producing oil, where the fuck would china get it from?

>>83
     It is because we didn't take out Stalin right after Hitler and had to deal with the Solviet union for the next 50 years that we have the problems in the middle east.  That and we handed Isreal to the Jews which really pissed them off as well.  We were fighting the Solviet Union throughout all that time, and we only had interest in nations that they were going after.  If Stalin hadn't been so paranoid and intent on spreading communism with force, we wouldn't have gone to those nations and interfered.  True that we could have done a better job cleaning up after the conflicts were over, but in many ways that's what we are dealing with doing now and you are still bitching.

>>87
     My point was that your argument was invalid because dealing with it wouldn't change the issue any.  If you were to say that we shouldn't drive cars because they are dirty and polute the environment, making a car that was clean and didn't polute the environement would deal with that side of that issus.  You are bitching that we are selecting our battles and only going into certain nations and pointing out that we aren't going into every facist regime, when you know perfectly well if we did you would then be bitching about that, therefore it is a invalid argument.    You are right that we should finish up iraq, then go into Iran, however I would much rather just back out of Isreal and just let the destroy eachother.  Saudi Arabia is something that we need them for an ally, and the Saudis know this.  It is a more sensitive situation.  China I belive can be handled best with economic pressure.  However I agree that all facist regimes that threaten the US need gone. 

>>88
       I personally don't care about celebrity politics and don't pay attention.  If they make a good movie fine I will see it, but that doesn't mean I want to hear your speaches about politics when you pat eachother on the back and say what a good job you did.  You aren't real people, and

>>90

combo fail. i'm not talking about 'politics' dumb-dumb. I'm talking about systems of governing people under a set of core ideals. <====== that, is not compariable to environmental policies and SCIENTIFIC DATA. who gives a fuck where China gets the oil from? the whole point is that oil use is an EXISTENTIAL TREAT TO HUMAN KIND. if China or any other country doesn't want to get with the program- then that is a good reason to go to war.

second: we are NOT dealing with shit now, you douche-vomit. dealing with it would be attacking the Saudis, Iran, dismantling all the despotic regimes in North Africa that we stray away from for economic reasons. what we're doing now is just so fucking sad that it's rediculous for you defend it. this proves that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

thirdly: you seem to be suffering from flawed logic. i'm not "bitching" that we're "selecting our battles" or "not fighting every battle" you shitbrain. we are selecting THE WRONG BATTLES. and me "bitching" about something doesn't immediately make my argument invalid- did you even attend college? are you really this fucking stupid?

>>90
and... what? I'm sorry I don't make the rules, if I could I'd turn the wolrd into a giant theme park and everyone would shit chocolate fondue, since I can't we just have to make the best of what we have to work with.

>>91
       "i'm not talking about 'politics' dumb-dumb. I'm talking about systems of governing people under a set of core ideals." that definately makes one of the top ten dumbest things ever said.    And you are forcing your politics and psudo-science environmentalism down everyones throat.
         Like I said I would take care of those issues if I was in power, I am not.  I have to live with the fact that bush is taking care of more of them than kerry would have.  I pick the one that will deal with more of the things I care about and fuck me over the least for the next four years.  And the lesser of the two assholes.  However stop pretending that if we were in all those regions that you wouldn't bitch.  Hell I would bitch.  We don't need to go to all of them at the same time.  Systematic elimination of one after another is in order.  Howeveer Bush isn't going that far, and that is fully his fault and the congress isn't willing to let him go that far.
          I am in college now btw.  And I am pointing out that your bitching isn't invalid.  It is the fact that your bitching about a detail you would still be bitching about if it were changed.  If you want to bitch about the hipocracy of it and point this out as an example it would be one thing, but very few do.  It  would actually be a great retorical argument if you actually let it be known as such.  But your politicans spread to be a simple attack about the lack of force being used, knowing perfectly well that we can't act to do what they are suggesting without them bitching even more.  We are going after the ones with the most power that have the most direct threat to us.  Although in complete honesty this is an argument against a general group of people so using it on you in particular is probably foolish and making me too fast to pass judgment.  If You honestly don't fall into that group than sorry, I was stupid to make the generalization that you were.
       I wish we would go after all the African dictators.  I think we should hang them from the trees by their testicles and watch them flap in the wind.  they are monsters, just like Sudam was.  I will admit that economics and politics made Iraq a more attractive target for Bush.  However stop acting like we are getting huge oil profits from them and we are just carrying away all their resorces and going to abandon them afterwards.  And china can be handled better with economic pressure.  They can outman us by several times, but all those men need to eat and everything else that ours do, that is where we should apply pressure.
       I may be being too hard on you here by catagorizing you as thee people that are bitching that us killing these people won't make the world better.  Kind of like the people that say the world isn't better without Sudam in power, or that Iraq isn't.  However we SHOULD finish in Iraq before we start going everywhere else.  The information that we had going into Iraq was wrong, that doesn't mean we don't still have a job to finish there before we move on.  And Sudam not having WMDs doesn't make him a good person and a fair rulers.  He needs to be handed back to the Iraq government, given a trial by his people, and quickly and cleanly executed.

USA FAILS HARD MOTHERFUCKER

"that definately makes one of the top ten dumbest things ever said.    And you are forcing your politics and psudo-science environmentalism down everyones throat."

no i'm not, you fucking crybaby. "psuedo science environmentalism"---where the fuck do you get this shit from? the situation posed was a HYPOTHETICAL, in the first place!! in the second place- the environment is an entirely different debate that has cold hard facts backing it up. there's no religion about destroying the planet, it's not even a question of IF we're doing it or not, it's more like: "how bad it be?"

as for the rest, all I have to say is that "the stuff you care about" is dictated by whoever's been a polarizing force in America for the last 40 years. you may care very deeply about alot of different shit, but you don't have a clue about what actually matters

What about you damn Europeans and your diseases and wars and slavery and empire and ... nevermind.

>>96
We've already been through this, whites aren't more or less immoral, it's just that they are better at everything they do. I don't think whites are more moral, to begin with, but as their civilisation grew and learned they began to generate new ideas of morality and become more moral, though the large scale effects of this only occurred recently. Civil rights are dependant on democracy and liberty. Would Nazi Germany have permitted civil rights? Would China have ever seen liberty if whites weren't around? Which is worse?

Since China would never even touch liberty and the nazis would at least have the concept of liberty, this means they were closer to achieving it (if it isn't even a possibility, how can you be close to achieving it in the first place? the nazis were more libertarian than the chinese) and thus China is more evil than the nazis.

So the best form of govenrment is a white or northern mongoloid majority democracy which allows immigration and emmigration, but only from the best and brightest from across the globe and  the forced emmigration of all criminals. The best form of world rule would see a eugenics program that would humanely see the extinction of inferior races (contraception), to create places for lower populations of people selected for being free from genetic disease and having at least an acceptable level of intelligence.

>>83

Exactly.  The instability in the Middle East is precisely because of interventionist meddling and sticking our nose in their business that we did previously this century. 

Interventionism is fucking stupid. 

>>97

That isn't a very libertarian idea at all.  You'd enforce this with big-government?

>>97
My question is how the Chinese is more evil? They never believed in "ethnic cleansing" and killed millions of Jews.

>>100

The Chinese government is communist.  They are authoritarian communists... the most absolutely anti-freedom form of government possible.  Or, authoritarian socialist, whatever.  It's beside the point.  Not only is their government horribly corrupt, pisses all over the individual and civil rights of it's citizens, it has been responsible for MILLIONS of deaths over the last century, and continues to be oppressive even now. 

http//www.amazon.com/...