America kills innocent civilians

And you Americans all condone it. What a bunch of savages.

     WE AREN'T TRYING TO EXCUSE THE BEHAVIOR OF CRIMINALS ON OUR SIDE.  all we are saying is that we atleast don't promote those actions by our soldiers while other nations do.  our soldiers do far less than those of other nations, not to mention if you factior in army size and figure our soldier to violent ciminal act ratio we fall far below any nation that has a substantially active military.  WE ARE SIMPLY ASKING WHY YOU PICKED US OUT OF ALL THE NATIONS ON EARTH AND SAID "ITS ALL THEM".  I understand that you hate america and that we are so well off, fine.  if you are american you hate america an feel guilty about being so well off, fine.  just don't confuse jelousy and guilt for evidence that america is all evil all the time.

>>41

If you actually believe in what you're saying, you're a retard.

>>42
I believe it. I think most of the hate for America is unjustified. Ik ben een Nederlander BTW.

I think you're all morons. Your undying loyality to the ideals of your country (or political party) is a pathetic misplacement of your core values. You guys are still using cold war rhetoric (socialism fails, capitalism fails, communism fails) to address problems that very simply go beyond which system we used to the govern the people.

I think one guy hit the nail on the head when he said that once a group of people ok a certain kind of behavior- then it becomes truth. "It's human nature" no longer serves as an adequate excuse when you know that what's being done is not only ethically wrong, but overall determental to the survival of the "humaness" of the species (it's spirt and it's soul - what it means to even BE human).

Every day you ignore the higher brain functions and resort to the primate and reptailan way of thinking- you send mankind further away from "humaness" and closer to being likened to animals. There is a choice. There is a difference between us and beasts.

Acts and reactions from both sides are a product of not human nature, but the nature of beasts.

>>44
Translation:
All other [insert random ideals/religions here] suck on assholes.

Become a [insert random ideal/religion here] instead!


Face it, there is no true way, just a load of stupid ass ways and the one you think is not stupid ass.

The only reason why democracy works is because people contend their stupid ways with words instead of bombs and bullets, it's not because democracy comes to the right conclusions.

>>44
You sound like a Christian. Fucking failure.

>>44
STFU STUPID CHRISTIAN THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SOULS AND FREE WILL WE ARE ALL MACHINES WE DON'T ESIST NOTHING EXIST WE ARE BUT A BLACK MELANCHOLY CHIMERA OF DOOOOOMMMM!!!!

Replace "it's spirt and it's soul" with "life" and it's a good argument

>>44
>Acts and reactions from both sides are a product of not human nature, but the nature of beasts.
Are you really surprised, with all the people admitting they are furries?

All people from all nations are savages!!  Especially the ones who aren't in the military!
I know so cause I read this article in newspaper and it said that people got killed by soldiers in a war zone!  And then no body made a big fucking deal about it, so I know now that all those people from that nation are evil and heartless!!!111.

>>1 and any other people who think Americans are bad are stupid for making assumptions and generalizing about millions of people they don't even know.  Fuck you.

>>50
hi5!

>>45

You're not getting it. There is a common thread of decency and ethical common sense that comes *before* "random ideals and religions". It takes a circumstance for one to throw those ideas out. This doesn't have anything to do with religion. I'm talking about simple fucking co-existence. I'm referring towards reaching at something else other than trying to make your world view win out over others. If you reply with some bullshit about 'oh this is just you trying to say your ideals are better' --- then you are apart of the problem!!! Not only do you acknowledge and agree to playing the game of "let's see who I can make live by my rules" but you accuse me of playing that same game and you're basically telling me: "NO *I'm* going to win!" ---This is the paranoid state we live in.

>>46

Christianity? Hahaha. Ok. Part of the reason we are the way we are in this 'modern era' is due to Christianity- more to a point- "The Dark Ages". The problem with this is that many of you are under the impression that because we have the internet, civil rights and can vote...that we're out of the Dark ages.

Guess what: We're not.

yah, how so?

>>53
serious if you have to ask how that is- that's part of the Dark Ages' ignorace playing out.

>>52
>>54
zOMG there's still warz going on?!!1  This must be teh Dark Ages +2!111

Sorry we're not living in the 'world of tomrrow,' but this era is far from "dark."  Certainly there are plenty of stupid fuckers out there (lots of them in the middle east), but considering science is rapidly advancing in the areas of genetics and nanotechnology as well as many other important things, we're doing alright.

Maybe after some stupid fuck unloads an EMP weapon upon the world we might experience some dark times.

>>55
Do you suck dick or take it up the ass?

>>55

You simply do not understand.

The delusion that "we're doing alright" is apart of the condition of habitual ignorance that comes from living in a dark age. The notion that you think I'm merely referring to "wars", is more ignorance again. We are living in an era of Trahsion De Clerc. Translation: Treason of the Clerics, a phrase that came *gasp* FROM THE DARK AGES. Even our scientists, politicians and greatest intellectuals are being turned into commodities and in turn, making their own bid for controlling someone else's world view.

Scientist no longer merely put forth ideas or give skeptism, they imply policy- make implications about the way humans should live and be ruled.

This is the shit I'm referring to and this is the shit that has to stop. "It's human nature" isn't no long an excuse or a reason. A huge part of what it means to be human is to defy logic, nature and sometimes "reason". Human nature is decided by us- we are not animals, we do have a choice.

>>52
You have a good point here. I didn't understand what you meant in your earlier post, but now I see what you're getting at. It's the current nature of people that of two opposing views, one has to "win", correct? When there's a discussion between people with different opinions, one side has to WIN and that is the one most people will be rooting for. Like it's a football match. There's hardly any discussion being done for the sake of sharing different viewpoints, it's all a battle to see which side is "superior". Live and let live is a concept that has lost out too many times, I guess.

if we're going to start to judge others based on whatever group they fit into and what individuals in that group have done then sure we can assume that americans kill innocent civilians. We can also agree that the muslim religion is extremely violent and all members will strap bombs to themselves or buildings or hijack airplanes to kill anyone not muslim, i'm only going by what i've seen right?

>>58
>>59

Now you're getting it. :)

>>60
"You guys agree with my world view.  You're alright!"

>>61

You stating this, is you trying to "win". What your dense faggot-brain can't seem to comprehend is that I'm not endorsing any world view. If so then you should have no problem in telling me what my world view is. At the MOST all I'm doing is asking people to *think* in a civil manner. I haven't outlined any policies, I haven't suggested any different systems of government, I haven't given anyone a model to live by. I just brought forth a single fucking thought. And the ONLY reason it irks you is because you are operating under the DELUSION that I'm trying to threaten your or someone's else way of life or world view. But, I'm not. Like I said: If you're >>53 then you are apart of your own problem. The only reason human conflict is apart of human nature is because we (you) will it so. We have the ability to change. That's all I'm saying and I frankly don't see where that comes off as representing a world view or controlling the views of others. 

>>62
Well, I'm not 53, and quite frankly I'm amused, not irked.  Maybe I'm just a jerk, but it's funny how upset you are.  And I think you're wrong.  Our 'nature' is highly engrained into every fiber of our beings.  Changing millions of years worth of programming and instict is going to take a little more than willing it to be.  Human conflict in particular.  People without gifts/advantages will always envy who do have them.  And those who are gifted will never really understand those who aren't.  And for one person to gain something, another person somewhere, must lose it.  It's a condition of living in a world of limited things and resources.  And if you think there's some magical solution to curing Greed, Envy, Hatred, and other such things you're living in a world of idealism.
Now, that said, I must mention that at heart I really am a humanist.  I believe that ALL people have incredible potential and a limitless capasity for growth.  But, the human race isn't going to change over night.

>>63

...and how does this apply at all to what I've been saying? Do you even know? I never said change would be easy, but it's defeatist to say that we will never change. By virtue of the nature of change and the nature of evolution itself- the human race *has* to change and *has* changed from being cavemen. Did I say it would be easy? No. Did I say with would be soon? No.

You're talking all this bollocks about human conflict, gifts/advantages, envy, greed, hatred, pride. These are *human* emotions and *human* ideals- taking these things and making them an irreversable or even attaching a negative connotation on them in the first place- is the type of stuff I'm talking about.

Well, the way you're bitching about it, it seems like you want it to change immediately.

>>64
Also, you seem to imply that fighting and human conflict are wrong and that they need to go away; that people should no longer find them acceptable.  Then you try to tell me that giving them a negative connotation is somehow wrong.  Well by the very nature of those actions they are negative.

chinese soldier slaughter fellow chinese and now practicing hard to do it to foreigner, American is already good in slaughtering foreigners and doesnt seem to be very fond about slaughtering fellow american, which one is better? you decide

"You want monsters? Look at what some of the chinese soldiers are doing to their own people. Oh yeah, you can't because they won't fucking tell you."

Source?

China doesn't claim to be "the protector of freedom" however. That's the main difference. America doesn't practice what it preaches.

ya all we do is free people from oppressive regimes and evil dicatators. What a bunch of goddamned hippocrites!

So your saying it's alright to be a massmurderer as long as you don't claim to be something else.  and if you claim to be a "protecor of freedom" you better be as clean as a virgin clit or you will get attacked on every little thing you do wrong.  Ok, i get it.

>>71
Neither is acceptable, but people with self-righteous airs are far more annoying (especially when they believe their own bullshit).

Well it's better to believe your own bullshit and expect others to believe it too, than to disbelieve your own bullshit and still expect others to believe it.

And it's even better if you don't believe your bullshit and don't expect others to either. Think about it.

>>74.  Actually I guess what I really meant is that everyone has their little corner of the bullshit market covered.  And I would rather hear from the christian that believes in creationism, the vegan that believes in animal liberty, or the environmental nutjob that believes in not burning any fosial fuels, than 1 high ranking scientologist, Celebrity PeTA member, televised Psyhic, or televangellist/faith healer.  There is a huge difference if preaching the bullshit that you actually believe, and taking advantage that people will believe the bullshit that you are feeding them.  Although, to be completely honest, I often have the urge to try to start my own cult just to see if I can(not an insane suicide cult, just a "you will worship me" cult).  We all have that little piece of bullshit that helps us get though the day.  We all have our little diluted fantasy.  Just because you keep yours quiet, or don't preach it as loudly, doesn't mean others don't have the right to.  Despite what many believe I don't think the complete abolishment of religion will make human societies somehow different, and certianlly not magially better.  People will simply attach their faith to new things, equally as dangerous.

>>65

If that's the way you comprehended it, then that your fucking problem. Unless I actually say something, then guess what? It hasn't been said by me, you dumbfuck.

>>66

The thing I'm implying is that there are human conflicts that lack reason. Like >>75 says, it's for the most part- been bullshit. These are bullshit wars fought for bullshit reasons and everyone seems to acting like the war in Iraq, the psychologically and economical war on socialism, communism are actual meaningful conflicts and *actually* the war against Tyranny, Dictators and systems of government that do not work. But they're not- they're really not.

>>39
No, it's not an excuse. However there is no excuse for refusing to fight tyranny. If you are standing in shit and have to walk through a field of shit to get out, it is better to walk through the shit than to continue standing in it. Thus it is better to get rid of tyranny than to stand and watch them abuse their citizens. You mights get your trousers coverred in shit as you slosh through, but it's better than standing there forever.

>>77

I don't see America attacking China or Zimbabwe. What happenned to  there not being excuse for refusing to fight tyranny.

Also the OP was about the massacre that is taking place in Iraq right now by the American soldiers.

>>76
So tell me, what is a good reason for a war?
And don't you dare give me some bullshit like, "There is never a good reason for war."