I am convinced, no matter how much wannabe-anime style art I've seen, that one has to at least have some Asian in them to draw the anime/manga style. Yes, it's also cultural, but culture and genes go hand in hand. The "L/R" misconception is actually the ear and brain processing the letters a certain way, and Japanese people are also more responsive to higher pitched sounds rather than low bass, as seen in a lot of their music. So call me a eugenics Nazi, I don't care.
Most US or Europe art tends to have square or straight eyes, to denote seriousness or "toughness." The anime round eye style seems to be a perception of femininity, a welcoming of it even in males, that allows the character to look naturally gentle or naive. The sense of 2D moving fluidly in 3D is also different in some way. US animators tend to focus on the whole body at once, from disney to Hanna Barbera to South Park to any show made for Adult Swim.
The closest thing to anime art is Pinup girls of the mid twentieth century (when females could be oggled without complaint) and some US comics, especially Image, but even these aren't pure manga style (they are unique, but some try to resemble anime).
There is some perception of what a character "should" look like to manga artists, which creates the style, and can be seen in Korean anime style art where the heads are wider or more squished. Somehow, the us perception of what a charracter should look like in 2D either ends up very two dimensional, or like Furry art. Something in US artists makes a lot of them predisposed to drawing Furry art, or cartoon animals, but not humans. Humans have always been the most awkward, strangest things to draw, and either must look photorealistic as in fantasy art, or be abstract and cartoony.
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Anonymous2005-11-02 4:22 (sage)
Did someone say Weeaboo?
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Anonymous2005-11-03 2:08
Weeabo or not(and there are some whoppers in there); I often feel like normal human movement in anime tends to feel more natural somehow even though it tends to use less frames per second. This is after watching a lot of american cartoons then later getting hooked on anime, and looking at cartoons again. By normal human I mean people drawn reasonably close to real life proportions in shape and whose movements aren't usually exagerrated except in certain cases, like extreme shock or anger. I don't include the bouncy looney tunes type of animation in this comparison because that's an entirely different style.
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Anonymous2005-11-03 14:57
>>1 It certainly is not genes. You have not studied science if you think it's genetic.
Culture can explain everything in your list. Everything.
More things to consider:
- There were lots of "furry" Disney cartoons in the 80's and 90's to which Americans and Canadians were exposed at a young young age. This exposure creates a gut level reaction and ability to draw furry style. This easily explains its popularity!!
- You are grouping a lot of manga styles into one category. You've looked at the older 60's and 70's era manga, I'm sure? Quite a lot looks in no way similar to the modern sharp-and-angled style.
- European comics. It doesn't look american, it doesn't look japanese. What if Hergé's style were as insanely popular as manga? Would we ("we" because I am one of you) be striving to get it to look "right" and cursing ourselves for not being as good as the weird and exotic people of Belgium? Would we be able to tell instantly if a particular drawing were a genuine belgish creation, or a cheap US wannabe?
I think so. We would do that.
- You have, hopefully, seen spanish, french, and latin american doujinshi? They look exactly, EXACTLY like "real" manga, and trust me, I have as discerning an eye as you, if not more. These artists are not asian in any way, no asian blood, yet they draw well enough to even draw the notice of fellow artists in Japan.
In my view, the reason why Americans and Canadians cannot draw manga-style is because we have a different tradition of art. We tend more towards the abstract, the individual style, learning from scratch how to interpret the world on paper. We are immersed in, and trained from birth to hold, this mindset.
We are not trained to copy. We are not trained (except in certain graphic professions in the past) to study closely the exact technique and shape of a drawn symbol. We have no centuries-old tradition of artistic apprenticeship comparable to that of Europe, Latin America and Japan. (Not to say there haven't been artists produced comparable to those nations, but I simplify it.)
In general, then, we don't even know where to begin when attempting to emulate a style. And the few artists who can do it, must not be interested in manga or anime as serious storytelling techniques, although I wish it were otherwise.
Please >>1, look at what I have said and study up on the avenues of research I have suggested. It's fine to be a eugenics Nazi for genetic things, but in this case I do not believe it fits.
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12005-11-03 21:05
>You have, hopefully, seen spanish, french, and latin american doujinshi?
Link to some plz?
Would an art school dedicated to manga/anime style ork in the US? No, it would only produce US art in a wannaba anime style. No matter how many How to Draw Manga books people buy, or how much anime style art they post on Deviantart, it will generally be US style art with blocky/straight lines and narrow eyes.
The concept art for this game reminds me of the Wonder Woman drawing in Excel Saga. Artists still can't evolve past He-man. Unless they're 50-100% Asian.
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Anonymous2006-01-11 2:07
The general style of anime can be traced back to Disney. Japanese art of the 19th century bears almost no relation to what we see in any cartoon today, regardless of where it came from.
I suspect the Anonymous that came up with this ridiculous idea doesn't draw himself or he would recognize that EVERY ARTIST DOES HAVE A UNIQUE STYLE, even if there are great similarities across professional anime and manga art. The difference between Japan and the U.S. is that Japan, being a small and dense country with a different market structure, has developed a tighter set of definitions on character design. When U.S. artists try to incorporate the style into their OWN characters, they end up with a blend of disparate influences, some their own, and others from Japan, and they don't have the same artistic community available to bring their work into line with the norm of Japan's art. But there are many, many artists anywhere in the world capable of faithfully emulating EXISTING characters from Japanese manga and anime. The style is set up such that emulation is easy. Style differences, when the artists involved are skilled, get reduced to small variations in line weight and curvature.
In U.S. comics you can often clearly tell a difference in pencilling/inking styles in a long-running series. With superheros, in particular, the anatomy varies widely and some characters end up looking chubby in one story and ripped in another. This is because the character design in superheroes usually isn't very tight - costumes are important, faces are important, but nobody pays much attention to the shape of the sixpack or the bulge of the bicep. In U.S. animated works this difference probably contributes a lot to the percieved weak animation of many cartoons. On the other hand, U.S. animation has very deep problems in terms of how it currently gets funded, and in general the budgets are pushed down, not up.
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Anonymous2006-01-11 3:07
anime was inspired by betty boop - an american cartoon.
There's no ridiculous jap ancient history behind it you waps.
And I'm pretty sure most of the early anime was taken from Walt Disney, recreating classics into the distinctive japanese style.
It could be the other way around though, I'm not sure.
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Anonymous2006-01-11 14:46
>>15
yeah, early anime has pretty heavy disney influences. tezuka was a huge fan.
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Anonymous2006-01-12 13:06
I keep trying to give US adult comics a chance, from the US stuff brought out by mangerotica, penthouse comics, and other independents, but it just doesn't match up to the quality of manga artists, who have a keen understanding of angle usage, motion, conflict, and emotional response. US comics lack something, and a lot of times it looks like the artist is drawing a profile or anatomical figure without concern for scene or situation.
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Anonymous2006-01-12 18:37
>>mangerotica, penthouse comics,
hahahahahha
read more, fag
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Anonymous2006-01-12 23:57
I swear, people just dig to the bottom of the barrel just so they can have something to bitch about. OMG LOOK AT MEGATOKYO, STUPID AMERICANS FAIL AT TEH MANGA.
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Anonymous2006-01-17 0:42
Come on thats bullshit. Yeah I have not seen any american anime on the level of authentic japanese anime. But I have seen plenty of indipendent and syndicated work that is just as good. There is talent out there. They may not have the culture thing on their side, but whatever. Not all manga must take place in japan, have japanese characters etc.. It depends if they have been working in the style for a while or they are a non manga artist trying their hand at the style. Thats where the true mangakas talent will shine. And I'm pretty sure anyone who grew up in japan and is well ruited in the culture will be able to produce a very authentic and good manga or anime.
And so on. whatever man.
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Anonymous2006-01-22 13:38
c'mon! Americans can so draw anime! I'm american and I've been drawing anime style ever scince I was still in grade school! Japanime especially!!! I mom always said I was good and I thought I was, too!
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Anonymous2006-01-30 7:43
>>1
Casue they don't want to they are afraid that people will just call them nubz who can only copy. Add to the fact that Anime is still quite unpopular in the majroity of America and thus people are afraid that theyir work will no get interest if they are Anime like.
Or the otehr case scenario is that in the US people place a lot of emphasis on self identification and thus tehy always draw something in between cause they want to show that "hey I can do a perfect combination of the 2 styles I created my owbn style that take the good from both I am soo awesome!!!"
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Anonymous2006-01-30 18:18
If by anime you mean cartoons, then Americans are superior. Japan cartoons are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of artistic quality. Maybe they have good ideas, but the art is shit.
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Anonymous by choice2006-01-30 20:11
I am going to remain anonymous. But I am of Irish descent no asian in me at all and I sign all of my art with a made up korean name and am hailed on message boards as a great artist, now, the rason I started using an asian name is because I was getting so/so comments under my real name, since I changed my name to a korean name my art is great. so is it prjudice.
that's what i'd do if i went into wap-centered art; IMMEDIATELY take up a japanese pen-name. being japanese, in this fandom, is a magical commodity that will allow you to get away with anything.
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Anonymous2006-02-01 15:01
i think it has to do with the way asians learn to write, which is different to westerners... the manga charas can be seen as a prolongation of kanji and ideograms, same goes for their emoticons...
it's not only about an asian penname, you know many japs have english-based pennames and such...
>>4
only one thing: not everything in Europe looks like franco-belgian.
And yes, in Europe we have wannabes that try to make it look like Hergè, and they fail.
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Anonymous2006-02-02 6:41
>>30
Certainly not, but there are failures in every place, even Japan mind you!
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Anonymous2006-02-02 14:10
>>31
In Japan, there are many artists that try to emulate the styles they've seen in Europe too... the results are weird indeed. It's what they call "nouvelle manga"... anybody ever heard of Taniguchi?
And it's not like all Japanese people know how to draw manga. Many (thousands) actually suck at doing it.
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Anonymous2006-02-03 4:15
>>32
.... Have you read Jiro Taniguchi?
Have you read Katsuhiro Otomo?
Have you read Hayao Miyazaki?
If you have and still say 'the results are weird indeed.', then I really admire your talent.
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Anonymous2006-02-03 19:12
Well, I think their results are unusual (in fact, that is the appeal they have as authors). Personally, i'm tired of the flat generic manga, and of course, of all the wapanese that follow it...
True, "weird" wasn't the most appropiate word for it.
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Anonymous2006-02-04 19:57
...
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Anonymous2006-02-05 11:17
Manga artists have individual styles. I think Masamune Shirow’s (Ghost in the Shell) glossy artwork looks very different from Range Murata’s (Last Exile) clean retro-styled artwork which looks very different from Yoshitoshi Abe’s (Haibane Renmei) sketchy artwork.
The problem is, while American Superhero and Fantasy fans idolize individual artists, American Anime fans idolize shows and genres. American Anime image galleries and image boards rarely mention the artist’s name. Instead, Anime is consumed as if there is a giant pipeline running from Japan to the U.S., sucking all Japanese artists’ work into one stream and mixing them all together. How can American Anime fans be critical of anime art when they consume it like candy by the handful, without even knowing the names of the artists?
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Anonymous2006-02-07 17:16
It's not only the Japanese who have an 'anime' style you retards. But to have a point, the differences between Korean, Chinese and Japanese 'anime' are subtle and tend to only be recognizable to those who either pursue art or grew up in the culture
Wapanese is an unfortunate current trend because people are forgetting old comics and things and worshipping anime/manga/Japs too much
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Anonymous2006-02-07 19:18
FUCK YOU YOU DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT JAPAN OR ANIME SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH YOU QUEER.ANIME IS BULL SHIT ITS NOT REAL IM FROM TOKYO YOU ASS HOLE YOU SOUND LIKE YOUR GAY.WELL I GOT NEWS FOR YA FAG WE KICKED YOUR ASS IN PERL HABER YA BITCH!!!!!!!!!
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Anonymous2006-02-07 19:43
FUCKING GOOKS
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Anonymous2006-02-07 19:53
Sushi, the key word here is sushi.
If an American learned how to make sushi, and he lived in a small town ala South Park, he would end starving because people around him wouldn't want his sushi. But if this person lived in a big city like New York, he could afford his living with a sushi bar/restaurant.
Still, in this city a Japanese chef would still be more popular.
And of course, if the American wanted to earn more money, he could try moving to Japan, if sushi can be popular and is expensive in the US, it's popular and expensive in Japan too.
Anyway, he wouldn't be as popular and well paid as local sushi experts.
As some1 stated above if you read amanga and didn;t know wherer the artist name. And it was good, does it matter. NOOOOOO. Fuck, manga can come from anywhere in the world. Yes its homeland is Japan. But that dont make a difference. So. Think about that.
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Anonymous2006-02-11 15:18
Manga made out of Japan always suck.
That doesn't mean manga made in Japan is good. Most Japanese manga sucks too.
Everything sucks.
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Anonymous2006-02-12 11:26
Americans can't do anything right.
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Anonymous2006-02-12 16:29
Lol
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Anonymous2006-02-13 15:04
Has anyone ever noticed that when they first start drawing anime style it looks like how the first mangas looked, and as you get better, your art starts looking like manga from time periods further ahead? I did. I looked at my old work, and it looked simaler to some manga I'd seen just recently that was from the 60's.
drawing japanese fashioned pictures is like writing kanji without knowing the meaning of words...
that's why westerners most of the times don't get it right
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t got shit on me!2006-02-23 17:22
Hey....I live in New York....not far from a sushi bar.....*gets hungry* time to get some grub! >:}
Japanese cannot draw anime either, as they outsource all the animation work.
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Anonymous2006-02-28 15:26
Race has nothing to do with whether or not you can draw anime. Yes Anime originated in the east. No one is disputing that fact, there fore the majority of all anime and manga come from there. But people of non asian descent can do anime, as long as they are well familira with anime. I bet you, if dead leaves was done by some westerner or samn, most of you would be saying, that it is not anime and might even say it sucks animation wise. Just my thoughts.
Out.
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Anonymous2006-02-28 21:54
>>1
kikaider is done by the maker of astro boy, who invented his art style as a ripoff of american cartoons. this si similar for a substantial ammount fo animu and amnga artists.
just because a chink draws it, does not make it superior.
thats the storyline's job.
stop being a fag.
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Anonymous2006-02-28 22:14
>>56
Kikaider is made by a different guy, genius. And he didn't say the art was superior he said America can't duplicate the manga/anime artstyle (which isn't true). Learn to read and...
stop being a moron.
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Anonymous2006-03-01 3:18
The reason why Japanese comics are better is because of the existance of MOE in them.
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Anonymous2006-03-01 12:02
Asian Americans tend to have some kinda genetic ability to do it
Joe Madureira and the guys at Blizzard making World of Warcraft can draw anime style. Plenty of people can it's not genetic. The only reason you're seeing terrible copies of manga/anime style artwork alot from Americans is because the people that are doing it can't draw in the first place or is (very unlikely) consciously trying not to ape someone else's style. Ben Dunn, Megatokyo, and most of Tokyopop's OEL comics can't draw for shit period and are just fan made crap passing off as professional work. If you look at doujins from Japan not all of them, but a huge number of them can't draw either.
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Anonymous2006-03-01 18:52
Madureira is imitative of anime style, seen in a lot of Image/Top Cow and independent comics. It's still not "anime style," but it comes close.
Yeah! Madureira I can say is manga influenced. If he sat down and said Ok I am gonna make a manga that is truer to the traditional style, I am sure he could do it and do it very well.
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Anonymous2006-03-02 12:21
Samwise's concept art looked Capcom influenced to me. I could imagine his Blademaster fitting in with Warzard and Shadow over Mystara
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Anonymous2006-03-03 20:32
Have you ever notice that most cartoons, Japanese or American, would have korean names for animation in the credits?
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Anonymous2006-03-04 3:38
>>67
Yes, but it doesn't mean anything to the general public with no eye for animation. Simpsons and Pokemon both have Korean involvement and they're nothing alike. Korean studios mostly do grunt work and have no effect on the key parts of development like storyboards, dialogue, character design, voice acting, or directing. They're a necessary step to a finish product and their contribution is important, but it shouldn't take over the spotlight on the main creators.
Notice the use of perspective in the above post. You can see their faces are turned at a slight angle, even the middle figure has a face that expresses roundness in three dimensional space, all form a series of two dimensional characters.
American emotes, on the other hand, tend to be flat with no perspective in comparison. This is due to the inability for Americans to comprehend three dimensional space in the same way anime does, ie South Park and Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
I heard a Japanese College Teacher say that anime was flat and two dimesional compared to other forms of art around the world
the Japanese ukiyo-e is all about flat narrative and representation
this teacher also said that "it can be said that two dimensional representation is inherent to Japanese people" and added that it was "practically genetic"
three dimensional art (perspective, chiaro-oscuro) only appeared in Japan AFTER western art was introduced to them
BTW South Park is a bad example because one of the creators did live in Japan and wanted to make a parody of anime (hence the jokes on Japanese people like Chinpokomon or the Mega Streissand episode)
>>73
Beacause this particular troll has benn linking to it in a few other threads.
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Anonymous2006-03-05 20:45
Yow!! u better stop fucking around. I pray i meet you one day so I can break your face, hiding behind a computer screen doin shit like that. fuckin bastard. Its people like you who should be shot on sight. infact If I c your mother, Ima slap her for putting you on this earth, ok. Sod off. prick.
Bah. Fuck genetics and culture. It's clearly handwriting. When an artist draws it's virtually the same to them as writing. Western art is generally curvier and flows well. Such is our handwriting, where you can write entire sentances without taking your pen off the page. It just comes much easier to us to do something in one swift movement.
Asian countries are stuck with kanji, small little pictures involving complex stocky lines and a lot of short muscle contractions. If you look at their art, it's full of short lines everywhere and couldn't draw a flowing line any longer than an average person lenght, worth shit.
>>77
Exactly why I love the likes of Maruo, artists like he shuns most of the cliche techniques of anime style. Its good to fap too but rarely makes for good serious storytelling. I mean, do you have any idea how fucking hard I laughed at Maus? I thought Art was some wacko dadaist trying to destroy the holocaust movement when I saw that.
>>79
Yes, destroy the Holocaust movement because you think his style sucks...
I really don't think he created Maus with art fags like you in mind.
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Anonymous2006-03-14 9:29
Actually i take that back, Madureira can draw manga style. Any of you guys seen the street fighter series by Udon. Awesome, even though very western style. But I consider that all out manga, and madureiras guest piece of the fight between Ryu and Sagat was just classic. Google it...Madureira + street fighter. Out.
Oh another example of non japanese manga comics. Rotogin junkbotz and swordsmen by sunscript studios. Aiit. gone.
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Anonymous2006-03-16 7:02
>>81
don't matter, shit still sux, fag.
and it should be but that's another rant entirely.
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Anonymous2006-03-19 2:33
>>58
Hey dumb ass look at every female Super-Hero it's just like that in the US
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Anonymous2006-03-25 1:26
>>50
This is, by far, the best answer in this entire thread.
But are you saying some one who has been reading manga and watching anime all his life does npt understand the mechanics of manga. Manga does not have to be about Japanese people or the east at all. I know most of the time the aforementioned statement is tru, but hey, not all da time.
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Anonymous2006-03-28 22:57
Let me ask you this: If there were no black people to ever set foot in America, would there ever be rap in the US?
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Anonymous2006-03-29 9:33
Probably not, because rap ws something that spawned from the living conditions that the black people underwent while livin back in the day. Check the history. But who knows, it could have. It may just have looked different from what it does now, for the factors to influence the content and style would be totaly diff. And a good topic u brought up. It originated in the states right, but does rap have to be by Africa americans to be considered, tru or real rap. NOOOO. All over the world Rap styles have evolved, some similar to that found in the states some with their on distinct flow. Britain has its hip hop and now its own version of the generer 'Grime', France has always had its hip hop, Africa from all different countrys has its own adaptions to hip hop, EVEN JAPAN is getting into it now. They all have hip hop artists and hip hop music. But do people go around saying coz its not from The states its not hip hop, its an immitation noooo. If they are trying to mock it with American accents and rapping about thins only in America without them a) either having lived there or b) understanding the culture, then you will hear the criticism. But if they keep it tru to their surrounding then it come out original, fresh and tackling new content. And its the same for any kind of music....Rock, jazz, whatever. And Incidedntly, I see it the same way with Manga or ainme. If you are there trying to imitate then sure u can call it fake if u want. But If u have a good understatnding of the style, why not tackle content akin to your surrounding. Anc maybe even create a hybrid style, the examples I have dropped above did. (Madureira, and one of my new favourites LeSean Thomas).
Nuff sed.
Peace.
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Anonymous2006-03-29 10:20
Oh and one more thing, I know this is not the manga boards or whatever, but just to show a diff scenario. Look at works By Santa Inoue such as Tokyo Tribes. He is Not black, or american, but full japanese and he is creats comics very much infused with the hip hop culture. Yes there are a few quirks here and there, but he knows his stuff, yet in japan there are no real, hoods, or gangs as he depicts in his comics, for him to relate to. He just Understands the hip hop culture and has followed it from way back in the day. He understands whats really going on. So all of you above who have been saying stuff like, ohh, you cant do something if you are not from there, should recognize. And im Not some America fanboy trying to defend American comics, nah. Heck I ain't even American, nor do I live in the States. But I am speaking as an individual, defending artists who are capable, and get bashed for doing awesome work by the people who dont appreciate. No wars intended, you know, jus making a point.
Kool,
I'm out.
Peace.
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Anonymous2006-03-29 10:40
With all the How to Draw Manga books sold in stores I wish I saw more results
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Anonymous2006-03-29 18:41
Its not just the "style" but the attention to detail. You rarely see femenine characters, with a wide range of emotions such as frailty or concern. Rather, everyone has to act tough and kick ass or be a Red Sonya sexpot.
Take any CG page and imagine if Western artists could get it right.
>>92
What the fuck? The only thing indicating any emotion on those pics are the mouths and in few cases the eyes. Yes that's an enormous attention to detail. And not every western artist does what you say, actually, most of them doesn't. Read some comics beyond Archie and 90's Image stuff you found behind your bed before talking out your ass.
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Anonymous2006-03-30 2:19
>>93
Agreed. He could have at least picked a renowned source with more references.
Or at least a good fan page, like http://www.geocities.jp/nekkeau/, as brain mangling as seeing female versions of popular male game characters may be.
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crooger2006-03-30 19:37
dunno 'bout u guys..but i do not think "trying" to copy whether
a US or JAP style is bad thing for a starter . i personly
think "if the stuff is good , then IT'S GOOD" , and forget 'bout whom and whose the dude did it, his birth place..etc.
2ndly ,i should find his style , not importantly diffrent from others. and btw, i don't like ppl when they "try" to make a "manga" only will fail! but
manga + personal touch + art = pure win.
for fails : "mystery martin " and "totally spies" is made of poop. for god sake , they trying no forcing to put all jap anime elements (facial expressions, drawing style..etc)in it.
as for wins : this guy draws like god http://crybringer.deviantart.com/gallery/
i hope i didn't sage that much
ps
btw i rather watch "looney toons" than anime.
ps2
check my drawings /ic/ by crooger
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Anonymous2006-03-31 5:46 (sage)
（＊＞＜）Please make the CD1000 piece.
(´･ω･`) It becomes 500,000 yen.
（＊＞＜）Because Yurishi have only 200,000 yen, it is good by 500 pieces.
(´･ω･`) Even if it reduces the number, the press doesn't become cheap. Calculation . in it.
（＊＞＜）It is because of being the whole hypothec.
(´･ω･`) It is possible to make it in case of 100 CD-R.
（＊＞＜）Yurishi's negotiation is good.
(´･ω･`) It can reel and is good in 200,000 yen in reality for 180,000 yen.
（＊＞＜）The whole hypothec became 20,000 yen and it exists.
(´；ω；`) It is poor.
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Anonymous2006-03-31 15:02
I actually know a couple of americans that folks here think are japanese. For the most part, Manga and anime is a cultural thing. There are specific cultural reasons why things look the way they do.
Personally, I'm not a fan of much of the new Manga/Anime stuff that's out there (Chobits...Bleh), too much cute, too little substance. Tho, there are older series which I love and some newer ones have the needed substance.
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Anonymous2006-03-31 19:56
>>85 Seconded. It is important to know why a artist does something instead of just copying it. Tho, I think that it is more of a culture thing. Handwriting could be a factor to this.
>>100
Except for books on real drawing, neither manga nor comic books:
photo source books
classics study books (book of a hundred hands)
Andrew Loomis!
Only after learning to draw and forming an individual approach, read Comics & Sequential Art by Will Eisner. Then (if you haven't already) read Understanding Comics, by Scott McCloud. Then READ Titan Books' Artists on Comic Book Art, the Dark Horse books on technique (for chrissakes don't even glance at the Antarctic Press comic-size guides), up to date stuff like DRAW! and Sketch mags including best-of compilations, and Comic Book Lettering the Comicraft Way. Then, when you are finally ready to make your comic, find a little book called True Facts: Comics' Righteous Anger, a collection of editorials by Larry Young.
Or... just toss drawing out the window and hope you're the next Gary Larson/Matt Groening.
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Anonymous2006-04-09 3:57
its not genes you asshole
give it 10 years when anime is everywhere, i bet there'll be plenty that can
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Alice2006-04-09 6:00
I hate it when i find "how to drow manga/anime" books that are by american authors. some bullshit name like "Ted Williams" or something. I don't know why. It just pisses me off.
Mentally translate it to "Akira Harada" or something else fairly generic. There's no more problem with a Western artist teaching how to draw with manga conventions than there is some run of the mill Japanese artist teaching oil painting, except for technical knowledge without inspired artistry (which is the usual problem with classroom teachers and book authors).
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Alice2006-04-09 18:47
>>105
I didnt say that was bad at all. My point was people just use the "Anime" gimmick to line their pockets.
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Anonymous2006-04-09 23:30
>>92
thos girls, they all have the SAME moé expressions...
my advice to the typical american pseudo-manga artist is to go the whole way and make up a japanese pen-name. that way, you gain instant credibility from suckers who judge artwork by its ethnicity.
i'd call myself takenobu mitsuyoshi. owait--
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chrisatron2006-05-12 18:03
w8 then can english draw anime cos im drawing it =P
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Anonymous2006-05-13 11:55
I draw anime every night, hentai to be exact. I scribble up a picture, then masturbate profusely with my powerful right hand until, after several long, satisfying orgasms, the page is thoroughly drenched. I then rub it all over my body, and go into my little sister's room and rub it on her lips.
Is that bad?
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Anonymous2006-05-13 12:11
>>112
The only thing bad about it is that you're not taking pictures of it and sharing them with us
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Anonymous2006-05-16 7:49
>>112
Damn it junior where the hell is those pictures!! Pronto im waiting with my right hand eagerly to forcefully masturbate.
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Anonymous2006-05-25 19:06 (sage)
i shit my pants
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Anonymous2006-06-03 17:37
>>104
What pissed me off more than that is that the artwork is shitty.
These people have no right teaching people how to draw anything.
>>104
It's not just the American-made "manga" books (which are by far, the worst) but also the Japanese Kodansha ones (How to Draw Manga) that aren't done very well either. Most of the people who write these books aren't exactly the greatest manga artists (in fact, a lot of them haven't even written manga, and have mainly worked as either animators or assistants to other manga-ka).
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Anonymous2006-06-08 5:56
manga discussions are retarded. enjoy whatever you like but keep it to yourself.
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Anonymous2006-06-08 23:57 (sage)
>>121
yes thats the thread about
LEARN TO READ FAG
2D or 3D women in adult games tend to look like crap.
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Anonymous2006-06-16 1:13
>>62
speaks the truth
the reason nearly all western anime style looks shit is because the people drawing it have no talent, go look on deviantart for examples. All the Western artists with talent have their own style they draw in, its mostly no talent weeaboo fags that copy animu style
I MEAN FUCK EVEN ANCIENT INDIAN ARTWORK AND PERSIAN SHIT WAS SIMILAR
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Anonymous2006-07-09 19:33
oh but wait indians are a cross between ancient middle easterns and asians and ancient australian aborigines
and persians are closely related to europeans OOPS THERE GOES THE GENETIC ARGUEMENT LOL
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Anonymous2006-07-09 19:36
also that arguement about hearing or whatever is shit too
almost all modern music is derived from the work songs and shit nigra slaves did in america, which were a combination of west african tribal music and european music
all that techno and jpop shit broke off from rock music, which broke off from the blues, which all came from america yeah youre a faggot ok
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Anonymous2006-07-09 19:41
Yeah seriously, older manga and anime from the 60's and 70's and 80's and all that looks nothing like the styles today
The stuff back then was fucking UGLY and way more comic-book styled than it is today
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Anonymous2006-07-10 3:25
Bazooka Joe comics were the fuckin shit!
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Anonymous2006-07-10 3:57
lOl THEY GOT U GOOD!!..
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Anonymous2006-07-10 6:25
ESURANCE
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Anonymous2006-07-17 1:46
IM TIRED AND I DONT KNOW WHY IM WRITING HERE....
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Anonymous2006-07-19 5:21
Inspector Gadget!
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Anonymous2006-07-25 2:09
It's not impossible for americans or europeans to draw in the anime/manga style and draw it well. People just have different styles of drawing and most of it is so tired and over-done anyways. Just because a person has no asian ethnicity, does not mean they cannot draw anime/manga well. It usually just means people won't give their anime/manga art the time of day.
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Anonymous2006-08-04 20:53
Asains draw better anime style crap because they grew up around it. They see it evey day and absorb it. But to say their art is better is retarded. For example anything drawn by Ed Benes far surpasses anything drawn by Masashi Kishimoto(the creator of naruto). But you have to give manga artists credit. A lot of the time they are both the writer and artist of their book.
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Anonymous2006-08-04 22:52
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If you have hands you can draw whatever the fuck you want. This thread is owned.
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Anonymous2006-08-27 15:40
yup, it's a question of market return for the job.
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Anonymous2006-08-28 20:33
Agree'd. America doesn't make good anime. Period. (I'm American)
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Anonymous2006-09-01 11:17
AMERICANTS
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Anonymous2006-09-01 13:21
AMERICUNTS
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Anonymous2006-09-01 15:59
LAWD GIVE ME STRENGTH
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Anonymous2006-09-01 19:55
>>1
of course not they are americans
anime must be done by japanese
anime made by americans is as mexicans tacos made by taco bell
failure and not equal to the originals
i dont think it matters what kind of stuff you grew up with. what and how you draw is your choice.
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Anonymous2006-09-09 7:42
I preferred it when everyone wasn't trying to imitate Japanese comic styles in order to cash in on it. I think everything would be a lot more interesting if cultures worked more on trying to develop their own art style instead of imitating other ones. American stuff seems to be degrading now that they're trying to be something they're not.
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Anonymous2006-09-09 21:28
Nouvelle Manga. Do you know it?.
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Anonymous2006-10-02 7:20
I really don't think that America has a semi-decent if at all culture... really its just stolen from other cultures and commercialised.
Outside Japan, the term most popularly refers to animation originating in Japan, with distinctive character and background aesthetics that visually set it apart from other forms of animation
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Anonymous2006-10-08 18:25
>>161
Influence on Western animation
Eventually some Western animators will emulate anime at the professional level. Some Western animation use anime methods described in anime physics. Such examples exist in Totally Spies and The Boondocks. In addition, works such as Avatar: The Last Airbender featured Asian themes. While these examples are not particularly considered as anime, they are best noted for being "influenced by anime".
TO OP:
Genetic? Do you draw at all? As has been said, art and illustration both have more ties to cultural understandings and visual & artistic "norms" than genes. Read an art history book. I command you. (Though I do agree that Americans tend to focus on showing the body rather than just the face and expressions when we animate, it ain't freakin' genetic.)
Also:
>Something in US artists makes a lot of them predisposed to drawing Furry art, or cartoon animals, but not humans. Humans have always been the most awkward, strangest things to draw, and either must look photorealistic as in fantasy art, or be abstract and cartoony.<
Hilarious thing is, if you look at the history of Western art compared to the history of Japanese art, generally speaking our humans look LESS abstracted (until the last century or so).
And just to be a pretentious ass...
a--you're using "photorealistic" wrong. "Naturalistic" would be right in this case, or perhaps "Humans drawn in a more realistic style". "Photorealistic" describes ONLY art that looks 100% like a photograph. It does exist, some crazy fanatic artists DO paint like that.
b--"Anime", "Cartoons", "Comics", etc, are generally not considered Art (with a capital "A"). They are considered Illustration. If you want to argue that some of the finer pieces in a Shirow or Clamp illustration book rival the works of actual contemporary artists, go on ahead (I kind of agree in a way)... B-U-T. Straight up animation or straight up comic book work isn't "Art" anyway.
While art now in the western world is all about breaking that last wall and just creating beauty/meaning/Art with the basest elements of art, illustration in the western world tends to move in funky "loops" around what is and isn't popular. Oddly enough "weeaboo" crap is currently pretty damned popular. Mostly because the sad and sorry doodlers don't understand general anatomy and bring those issues into their illustrations, and these issues eventually become conventions. Like the funky on-the-cheek mouths. Expressions used for the hell of it. Etc.
Anyway that's enough for now; chew on it if you feel like.
You should shut the fuck up, you're overloading the internet with such stupid cunt-talk.
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Anonymous2006-10-27 1:15
well the only ppl i've ever seen that draw pretty good anime who are none japanese are asians and hispanics, i have no fucking idea why that is but white ppl generally suck balls at anime, i've found some talented none japanese anime artist and they're usually chinese or from brazil or some shit.
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Anonymous2006-10-30 19:08
I don't think people should try to draw anime. The style doesn't allow much room for creativity
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anon2006-11-21 10:54
I have a friend who is american who con draw better than some japanese manga shows!!! :( Screw you all!!!
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anon2006-11-21 10:56
I have a friend who is american who can draw better than some japanese manga shows!!! :( Screw you all!!!
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anon2006-11-21 10:59
I apologize for being so rude but my friend is very good at drawing anime and it angers me for you to say that so sorry:(
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anon 2006-11-28 10:46
I still dont like what you say about americans not being able to draw anime
>>166
You're going to have to to alot better than that. How about learn to draw, rather than make excuses for why you can't draw as good as some Japanese dude.
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Anonymous2007-01-03 20:15
2 words: bix-nood.
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Anonymous2007-01-03 20:50
Look at TokyoPop's stuff. If you want to see the best of what America has to offer in regards to "manga," sadly, that's about all there is. It's not much.
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Anonymous2007-01-05 16:55
I am British. I can draw anime pretty damn well. Still learning, but I'm at a level where my stuff looks like what it's actually meant to look like. As in, anime/manga style of artwork. Not complete shite. Yay.
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Anonymous2007-01-07 2:15
>>189
It's hard to draw when you have to stop yourself from drooling on your own paper. Gay retard.
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sammie2007-01-10 16:49
Im america and i can draw anime perfectly fine, no forget fine, i can draw anime as good as any Japanese artist. im the best drawer in my school, im in 7th grade too! if you could see my art you would stop saying this shit.
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sammie2007-01-10 16:54
you have some good points but some americans can draw anime(not Japanese american either) and i have had alot of practice. i dont use no stupid 'How to draw Anime/Manga' shit. i get it from my ability to see things the way they are and draw them the way i see them. i dont copy either.
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Anonymous2007-01-10 17:01
I can draw anime.
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Anonymous2007-01-16 12:06
FUCKING GOONS
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Anonymous2007-02-25 10:07 ID:7M1r8g+I
DEY CA DRAW ANINEME< BUT NO MAKE AMNIEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm an artist and animator and I'll settle this once and for all. I grew up on American cartoons so my first exposure to DBZ was a mind blower. At the time I couldn't tell the difference, but I was still pretty much into American cartoons but there was clearly a distinction. Eventually I saw the Anime influence in certain American cartoons only to learn that they were outsourced to japanese animation studios.
But more than that, even the content matter is completely different. The japanese (not Asian) take on animation stems from something specific to Japan, whether it be culture or genetics (though we have yet to prove what genetics are and exactly what influences evolution in DNA etc) This was very interesting to me even though I still couldn't properly articulate the differences. Disney, my long time favorite animation studio, who I've come to know as having near life like animation still just didnt come close to the "choppy" japanese style of animating. This is illustrated further even in motion capture brought on by CG imagery. Western animators tend to be following some kind of rigid polka while the Japanese have this free following waltzy feel to their characters.
I can just look at any animation and tell you where it's from, even if an artist copied an original anime frame for frame (maybe not) but I can always tell it's origins. The French have their own style, and Chinese do too. My favorite Manga-ka is Ogure Ito, I just love his art style, but what I'm getting at is even in the manga stills the whole animation sequence is laid out. You can feel some kind of energy emanating from the storyboard-like sequences. I'm a pretty good artist I think, but I don't really have a personal style. I live in a 3rd world country with barely 200K people and there is absolutely no animation studio here. My major influences have been American animators/Marvel/DC comics but I'm planning on stealing someone's art style for my own and I choose Oh Great!
Maybe one day I'll be able to define what separates Western from Eastern Artists/Animators but until then I think it's foolish to even compare the two. Even if you could copy the art style, the concepts covered in the average manga or anime are light years ahead of anything I've ever seen from American graphic literature.
I AM NOT FROM THE US OR Japan.... but I'm Canadian :D and no, I don't live in an igloo ):<
I draw anime, shonen realisticish style(wird cuz im a girl lolz)
I'm not the best, but not half bad but then again when i was little my fav shows were sailor moon, card captor sakura and pokemon and I perfer Studio ghibli ofer disney.
now im 16 and watch normal tv + all kindes of anime like:
Hetalia
Black Butler
Deathnote
Baccano
Durarara
ouron highscool host club
Narut
Naruto shippuden
Blech
melancholy of haruhi suzumia
.hack//
D.grayman
Code geass
ghost hunt
Luck Star
xxxholic
*gasp* ;A; I could go on forever!!!
... wait o30 what was i talking about,
>>216
This reminds me of reading that "penguin of doom" copypasta/kopipe.
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Octos2011-02-17 14:58
It's simple, really. Americans draw Anime that they see, and try to get that style. Japanese Artists are churned through an unholy machine to spit out Manga. Really, most of the Manga artists were raised in backrooms of Anime studios spending ungodly hours creating and cleaning frames. If an American went through the same process, they'd be ace too. But since the Industry here is so different, only the most recognized graduates get the jobs, instead of having hundreds of little frame slaves. So called American Manga is usually just some fanboy.
>>216
I'm Canadian and live in an igloo. Where's your fucking igloo sir.
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Anonymous2011-08-29 15:08
If this post is post 221, we will get actual lives.
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Anonymous2011-08-29 19:43
If trips, I get trips.
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Excuse me....2011-09-25 0:32
As my nickname says, excuse me, but at least Americans draw at all, and I'm pretty sure that in some cases, our art is better than anime. Spiky hair and sparkely, big eyes aren't always the best. And I belive that if I can draw pokemon, than goddamnit, America can draw pokemon! I belive they already are... And I also think that 2011 thunder cats is currently being made by Americans. And the original was good too! Most American art today is kinda Bleh, but back in the no-worries, no-problems years of our proud country, we made some damn fine comics and cartoons. Sure, colors weren't as bright as they are today, but that retro feeling always has a warm spot in my heart. Oh, and that thing about animals, of course that's true! The human body is fucking hard to draw! Do you know just how hard it is to draw hands?! DO YOU?!?! I feel like american art is smarter because we find different ways to draw things, like how we found that hands don't need 4 fingers and a thumb, it could be 3 fingers and a thumb! XD
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Excuse me.... 2011-09-25 0:46
Oh, and I must also say that anime animation SUX ASS! Seriously? Most anime is just mouths moving, alot of the same drawings used over and over again, but with different backgrounds sometimes, anime also has alot of stories based off of one another, very repetitive, I must say. You think Americans are bad with cartoons? At least we make smooth transitions, we aren't lazy, and we actually bother to make some of the best animated cartoons out there, sure, you might have hetalia, fooly cooly, full metal alchemist and other animes that I throughly enjoy, but some childrens cartoons I see on tv is just a relief to see compared to anime that I start to feel all tense like I've been that way for a week or something, and than it just releases..
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Excuse me....2011-09-25 0:48
As my nickname says, excuse me, but at least Americans draw at all, and I'm pretty sure that in some cases, our art is better than anime. Spiky hair and sparkely, big eyes aren't always the best. And I belive that if I can draw pokemon, than goddamnit, America can draw pokemon! I belive they already are... And I also think that 2011 thunder cats is currently being made by Americans. And the original was good too! Most American art today is kinda Bleh, but back in the no-worries, no-problems years of our proud country, we made some damn fine comics and cartoons. Sure, colors weren't as bright as they are today, but that retro feeling always has a warm spot in my heart. Oh, and that thing about animals, of course that's true! The human body is fucking hard to draw! Do you know just how hard it is to draw hands?! DO YOU?!?! I feel like american art is smarter because we find different ways to draw things, like how we found that hands don't need 4 fingers and a thumb, it could be 3 fingers and a thumb! XD
Yeah um,I am american but I can draw anime/manga whatever very well and funny thing is I am part Japanese and to draw anime you really have to pay close attention to how they are drawn, i'm pretty sure even americans with non-asian decent can draw in the japanese caroon style decent enough oh and also i think anime is kinda lame and over used(except for Astro Boy, I really like that for some reason) anyway I recently started making my own style of drawing that is actually getting popular oh and get this it's based off of American cartoons drawn over 90 years ago like Kewpie and all that. Being an artist is being your self, that's why anime became so popular because it was very different from what the rest of the world was used to, but if we were to make our own styles(talking about EVERY artist out there world wide)we would all be popular just be your self and do what you do :)
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Anonymous2013-08-30 12:06
yeah it's a matter of genes
Black people invented rap , so you have to have black genes to sing rap like Eminem