God is either all-powerful or all-loving

Has it ever occured to you that if God was both all-powerful and all-loving he wouldn't create a world with suffering in it? There is unnecessary suffering, no one can doubt that. Some point out that we cause suffering to ourselves through our choices, because God gave us free will. Well, not all suffering is caused by other humans. What about natural disaters? Did hurricane Katrina happen because someone out there chose to make other humans suffer? I don't think so.
 
There is no point to having suffering on earth to teach us lessons. If God is all-powerful, he can create a world where we learn through non-painful ways. God can, if he is all-powerful, create a world where we don't suffer while still giving us free will. God has the power to shape this wordl any way he wants, but he doesn't seem to choose to do it in an all-loving way. For those that think a perfect hedonistic paradise would be boring, you don't seem to understand what God can do. God could make it so that we were always happy, and never got bored of it. You might think that God changing our desires is interferring with our free will. However, how is giving us a slightly different set of desires then the one we have any different, really? God gave us the temptation to do bad things, and then said we shouldn't do them. Hmmm, did he really expect us to be good ALL the time? It's like a parent putting a gun in the child's room, and telling them they can't touch or use it cause it's bad, even when the parent knows they gave the child the desire to use the gun.

Why is hell eternal if God loves us? Lets call God our parent for now, its a fair analogy. Parents punish their children for things they did wrong, including the choices we make. However, punishment always has a reason: it's to teach us a lesson. If hell is eternal, then there is no point to it, because we never get out. If I am sent to hell for not believing in God, I wouldn't learn the error of my ways. I would learn to hate God because he stuck me down in hell for eternity.

God sucks.

>God does not exist.
fixed

Don't blame God, blame Jesus!

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0085/0085_01.asp

He created the world and gave us life. Not God.

Welcome to WTF.

lol god

>>1
i stopped reading at the 2nd sentence because the assumption is retarded.

JESUS LOVES YOU

Read through the Old Testament.  That killed all my faith in God.

http://scriptures.lds.org/alma/42 Perhaps this will help?

Did hurricane Katrina happen because someone out there chose to make other humans suffer? I don't think so.

Well your answer is.  Look what happened when 9/11 happened and other events.  They all suddenly remember there god. Just like events in times of old like famines, wars ect. Stir the people up in the rememberance of the lord there god. 

And yes people have there free angecy.  It was a choice they made before coming to this earth. whether they be good or evil. Remember "Every knee will bow and every toung will confess." This world is to organized to be just a random happening. (Also notice how Humans know right from wrong and only they have a choice to choose there life no other creature does).  The truth is out there all you have to do is look. Most give up before even trying.

The same reason to not believe in God.  If humans react to disasters by looking towards God, then it becomes a reactionary condition.  It's just psychological.

Suit yourself. I'd rather remember god than burn in hell...

God is a hippie?

think of it this way. Put yourself in gods position, you are a parent with a child. now you can let that child go out into the world knowing full-well that he will probably make mistakes, get hurt etc. and hope he will learn from them. Or you can keep your child under a protective bubble and shelter him from the outside world so that he doesnt have to experience pain, suffering(emotional or physical), or have to worry about making mistakes(kinda like how siddartha was raised). If you were a parent which would you do Shelter your child completely or let him experience life and hopefully learn from any mistakes or painful experiences that they have. 

>>12 "you are a parent with a child"

sorry guess that was just a little redundant

>>1 Why is hell eternal if God loves us? Lets call God our parent for now, its a fair analogy. Parents punish their children for things they did wrong, including the choices we make. However, punishment always has a reason: it's to teach us a lesson. If hell is eternal, then there is no point to it, because we never get out. If I am sent to hell for not believing in God, I wouldn't learn the error of my ways. I would learn to hate God because he stuck me down in hell for eternity.

Actually many christian faiths including russian orthodox believe that all souls will one day be saved (even lucifer, and satan)

>>1 God gave us the temptation to do bad things, and then said we shouldn't do them. Hmmm, did he really expect us to be good ALL the time? It's like a parent putting a gun in the child's room, and telling them they can't touch or use it cause it's bad, even when the parent knows they gave the child the desire to use the gun.

god created temptation so that we could actually have a choice. if there is only one path in life that you can follow then whats the point in free will? god wanted children that would not be robots and love and honor him because he wished it to be so. he wanted our honoring of him to be genuine and because we loved him not because he wished it so. if we did'nt have temptation or free will we would be nothing but slaves. You can't know good if you have never known evil in one way or another. You can only know good as much as you know evil, you can only truly know happiness when you have experienced grief. Why do you think that after you have had somthing taken from you, you cherish it more? because you have known life without it. You do not get a full view of life from only one point of view. I have had bad experiences in my life but as much as i hated those moments in my life im damned glad that ive had them. God created temptation  so so that we could cherish our existance and our free will rather than just take it for granted.

Why do you think god has an infinite capacity for forgiveness all you have to do is repent and you are forgiven in gods eyes. He probably did not expect us to be good all the time, but he obviously didn't expect to hold our misdeeds againts us for all time did he?

>>14

Of course, those souls would be saved if they rot in hell for all eternity? I don't think mixing together with the worst of humanity forever would save any souls.

>>17
In some of the recovered Gnostic gospels Jesus tells one og his apostles that the souls of the damned can be saved by the prayers of those in Heaven, and that eventually everyone will get to heaven (but keep this hush-hush for now).

>>18
So Hell isn't eternal? Unless people in heaven get lazy. Why doesn't god just make everyone saved if he is all powerful?

>>19

You gotta work for it.

The crux of it, of course, is choice. God gave man the ability to choose and will not infringe on this ability. Basically it means he has to put man in a position where he has to make a decision to embrace or reject God.

Now you could argue that God is just playing a big cosmic bet with our souls to see which way we turn. This attitude is reinforced by the book of Job in the bible when God makes a bet with Satan to test Job's faith. It's difficult to say what God really gets out of his relationship with man.

As far as man's soul going to hell, the belief in either heaven or hell as the only options may be incorrect.

I quote from (scroll down):
http://yadayahweh.com/chapter.aspx?g=5102&i=51207

Sheol is the place of shav’—“abandonment, separation, and therefore desolation: “to be devoid of life, debilitated, joyless, miserable, sorrowful, and unsatisfied.” It is the one place “where God is not praised.” It is “the realm of the dead.”

Sha’owl shares the first three of four letters with the Hebrew word for “destructive wind storm”—a term often used in reference to Satan and his followers. The same is true for the Hebrew word, sha’own, meaning: “waste, desolation, destruction, corruption and ruin.” When combined with bowr, sha’own means: slime pit, muck hole, muddy depression and a hole in the ground that traps objects entering it.” A sha’own is a “confused state, social chaos, rebellion, and tumult.”

It could be that there is a third option: eternal death.

Also when God created the world at the beginning there was supposedly no suffering? The Garden of Eden sounds peachy.

>>15
No he doesn't expect us to be good all the time; to be redeemed is not by works but by forgiveness. Apparently God has a very high standard which is quite impossible for any man to reach on his own. That's the reason man needs God to help him.

>>18
Gnostic gospels are considered heretical; they really aren't compatible with canon.

Basically it means that hell is just an absense of god. And because god is the source of life and happiness etc. there will be none of those things in this place. (i hope i got that right)

That's not hell at all you idiots. Hell is a lake of fire. FIREWATER BITCHES!

Hell is a lake of Indian whiskey.....sounds a little too good too be true.

Have you guys learned about the war in heaven?  2 Plans Were presented.  1 Was Satans plan which was we would all have no choice and do everything right.  Thus we would return to our heavenly parents spiritually immature.  This is the plan of the Satan.  Jesus's plan was of angecy.  We have the right to make our own choices whether they be good or evil. And if we found we did wrongly then we could repent and that sin would be taken from us.  These plans were presented in the pre-existance.  1/3 of heaven choose satans plan.  And when jesus's plan was chosen for us a war broke out (because satan and his followers rebeled) thus they were casted out of heaven and became a fallen people.  Satan is allowed to tempt us to a certain degree because of our free agency.  Well this is just a breif explanion not very detailed. Read here for more. http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,792-1,00.html

As to answer your question for what happens after death.
 Read here
http//www./...

So why do we need free will? Without it, noone could debate this, it would be a moot point, and we would all be happy. Sounds good.

There is also a probationary state from the time we die and from the time we meet god. You can read more about it here: http://scriptures.lds.org/alma/12

Everyone that lives now or has lived or will live. Will have the chance to hear the gospel. Whether or not they accept it is up to them.

I dunno how many of you like reading books.  But if you want a real eye opener read "Hiding in plain sight"

God is just human like us. Ever wondered why in genesis it is said that god created man as his image?

In genesis, why are plants created before the sun?

Makes no sense :C

>>31
Bible is not to be trusted. If it was right, women were made for men and this cosmic being flooded the world because they were being stupid. So we should all be underwater now, just look at /b/.

>>32
I know it can't be trusted.

But there are people who actually do, despite all of the illogical things that go on in it.

I for one think it's absolutely mind boggling that women can support christianity, let alone participate in it willfully, with all the mysogony in the bible.

>>33 mysogony resulting from the bible is largely misinterpereted

>>31

"God does not say that He created the sun, moon and stars during the fourth day, but only that they would be “signs,” and thus would be visible at this time.

Scientifically speaking, this is an accurate chronological depiction of what actually occurred. The sun had been in its place for billions years but collectively the atmospheric debris from countless volcanoes and asteroid impacts needed to settle. Plants gradually filtered out the carbon-dioxide they had spewed into the air, creating and transforming the atmosphere into the oxygen rich and nearly transparent condition which exists today. The sun and moon could finally be seen in the fourth epoch of creation."

up to you whether it makes sense or not

>>34
>>mysogony resulting from the bible is largely because when the stuff was originally written, women were second class citizens already, so it wasn't considered mysogony. Idiots read it now and think that that stuff has some moral/ethical/spiritual meaning in the modern world.

Fixed.

GOD is a fraud,and everybody knows that but instill they pretend otherwise.Thank you very much!

Everyone, even the christians, know that there isn't a god deep down, but they desperately need some superior father figure to rely on and pretend not to know.

>>35
Things like this anger me.

>>38
A father complex? Is that why Christians, especially the Roman Catholic look down upon gays?

Just because they have their own man to be their father figure... >.>

join the orthodox church. they actually make sense

>>41
I'd rather join the unorthodox church.

God is obsolete.

>>43
No shit, that's why Church membership is falling. Religion is for medieval times and countryside ignorants

death to catholics and muslims

lol @ atheists who go into shitfits when religion is mentioned

Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
    Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)

If there were no God, there would be no Atheists.
    G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)

"If there were no God, there would be no Atheists."

That makes no sense :|

It'd make more sense if it said "If there were no religion..."

if you are an atheist you say i don't believe in god right? so obviously there has to be a god for you not to believe in. just like the boogeyman and michael jackson.

i deny square circles

Everything needs a rational basis. If you have a rational basis for god, that's fair enough, just admit you are wrong if you are crushed in debate.

>>47 Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
    Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)

this is surprisingly true

>>49

Thats like saying i dont believe pigs can fly...so there must be flying pigs for me not to believe in!

>>53 yah, it was a joke. notice the comment about the boogeyman?

>>54
It's a dumb joke that makes no sense.

He loves my anus. And his divinty hurts!

[b][u]MP