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IS Pi a finite or infinite number?

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-29 22:29

What do you guys think???

Also when do you think mankind will discover the answer to this most important question?

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-29 22:32

2GET

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-29 22:48

my four boxes enclose your pi boxes lol

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-29 22:49

huh?

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-29 22:58

>>1
>>2
>>4

same person I.E ME!!!

Now can i get some real discussion pleasse

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 0:16

>>5

you are a good troll A+

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 1:03 (sage)

its infinte, duh

It just doesn't need to be infinite for most (if not all) calculations.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 1:48 (sage)

>>7

yeah, you fail at english too.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 2:10

pi isn't infinite, you dorks. it's 3.14 and so on. that looks pretty fucking finite to me

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 3:03

>>9
You have been learned stupid.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 10:11

pi < 4 therefore pi is not infinite

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 10:54

>>9
lol
true
I wish my Math teachers spoke like that

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 14:07

>>1

I think you meant transcendental, i.e. with infinite digits.

Name: dv 2005-11-30 14:18

>>13

No that's "irrational", transcendental means it's not the root of any algebraic equation. Actually all numbers have infinite digits, for some of them they just happen to be 0 after some point.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 14:35

Pi is trancendental.

Name: zeppy !GuxAK3zcH. 2005-11-30 15:46

Pi is not infinite, but irrational. Infinite in the sense that there are no end to the decimals, yes. Otherwise, no.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 16:45

Pi in base Pi is "1"

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 16:46

>>17
Er, make that "10"

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-30 16:53 (sage)

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-08 0:38

Considering that the circumference of a circle is something multiplied by pi, it's kind of.. impossible that pi is infinite, since it's possible to put things outside the circle.

=)

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-08 5:33

>>20

you made up that second bit, didnt you?

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-08 8:47

>>23
SHUT UP!

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-08 9:25

:(

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-08 11:37

GET

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-29 12:43

Well, PI is finite because it is a number and infinite numbers don't exist alright

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-30 3:14

>>25
Yeah they do,  as much as negative numbers exist.  I mean shit, just cause you can't find infinity on the earth, just like you can't find negative pie, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Do negative numbers exist then?  I guess not...

Math is an abstract symbolic language for dealing with things outside our minds normal comprehension  The math for infinity exists for this reason, cause we can't deal with it in everyday life.  We need symbols and rules to deal with it.  Rules that have been debated and proven, etc, etc. 

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-30 22:48

hey god why did you make pi something so hard to figure out

Name: God 2006-04-30 23:11

π is an entirely abstract concept. Its value is not something I can change.

Name: Boring person 2006-05-01 2:42

Pi is irracional because it cannot be described as a divison of two integers (racional).
It has infinite digits as proved by the algorithms to calculate them.
It is described by a symbol.
It's value is the perimeter of a circumference of 1 unit in diameter.
With Pi and the other trigonometry you can relate the space of the Complex numbers and the Real numbers (not the only way).
Pi digits don't repeat themselves, it's common to find curious patterns in Pi, but they usually don't go very far.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-01 11:25

>>29
>It has infinite digits as proved by the algorithms to calculate them.

lolol
you don't need algorithms have prove irrational have infinite decimal expansion. it just follows from the theorem that a number if finite iff it has a periodic or finite decimal expansion.

Name: J3ph42 2006-05-01 14:44 (sage)

>>1

By "infinite" one can only hope you only failed to say that it has an infinite number of decimal places, not that it has a value of infinity, because obviously it is finite, otherwise all circles (and anything made of circles) would be found infinitely large and it would just be a part of that vague concept called "infinity" and we wouldn't bother giving it the name 'Pi'.

Assuming you did mean infinitely long in terms of decimal places, if it has a finite number of decimal places, we will find out when we calculate the final decimal place. If not, then we would never know for sure. We do know that it has yet to be described as a divison of two rational numbers. Grade school teachers may use 22/7 (somewhat close for a few digits), I forget why...

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-01 16:22

But wait, infinite is not a number, right?

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-01 18:15

>>32
You are a number and you are finite!

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-02 2:57 (sage)

>>31 We do know that it has yet to be described as a divison of two rational numbers.

Pi is in the set of irrationals (the proof is elementary) thus that can never described as the ratio of rationals.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-02 6:43

After 32 didgets (something like that) it becomes mathematically insegnificant.  But 3.14... is only an approximate, the exact value is something like (14-square root of 2)/4.  Usually you will use the exact value rather than messy approx. decimals.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-02 7:10

>>35
you're an idiot or a physicist if you think the digits become insignificant after 32 digits.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-02 7:28

sry it was 34 decimals (forgive me) it becomes insignificant, based on planck's constant.  There is no need to go out further than that because the decimals mean pretty much nothing.  For Physics 34 decimals is the furthest you go (unless you finds out observation has an effect on the expiriment, then it might go out further). 

Although that wasn't my point, because 3.14... is an approx value for Pi, I already stated the exact value for Pi.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-02 7:32

>>37
yeah right. lolol. try finding out the simple continued fraction representation of pi with just 34 decimals.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-02 7:42

>>38
You don't use the decimal value! that's what I'm saying!  Can you fucking read?

The approx value of Pi is mathematically insegnificant after 34 decimal placed that's what rounding is for buddy.

Use the exact value: (14-square root of 2)/4  <--- that is the exact value of Pi.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-02 7:45

>>39
>>Use the exact value: (14-square root of 2)/4  <--- that is the exact value of Pi.

What the fuck are you on about. pi is transcendental and hence cannot be a quadratic surd. gtfo.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-02 17:51

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND >>40
MATH DOESNT MATTER SO WE CAN REDEFINE PI TO WHAT THE FUCK WE FEEL LIKE IN PHYSICS.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-06 22:15

The Alabama state legislature tried to redefine π to be exactly 3, because they thought irrational numbers were "ungodly" and harmful to the chillun'.

ONLY IN THE U.S.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-07 0:13

>>41
Don't be a dumbass, precision is everything in physics. The more precise your experiments are, the closer to reality your theories are.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-07 6:03

>>43
Newton failed his experiments, yet he won his theories

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-07 8:35

However, pi can be expressed as a continued fraction, or an infinitely nested radical.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-07 13:13

>>45

zomg, anything can be expressed as a continued fraction.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-08 2:42

This is such a retarded question.  Pi is a number, that's all there is to it.  A static, normal number.  The only reason one might view it as "continuing" in some way is because of the way we write it.  It's just as "infinite" as the number 5.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-08 3:34

>>47
Not true. Pi has infinite decimals in any base because it's an irrational number and as such it cannot be expressed as an integer or a periodic decimal in any base, lol.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-08 12:15

>>48

Pi = 1 in base Pi lol.

Yes, I know that's wrong.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-08 18:06

>>46


You say that like it is some trivial observation. Care to give a proof that all numbers can be expressed as a continued fraction?

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-08 18:33

>>49
The only possible bases are decimal, binary, hexadecimal and octal

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-08 18:34

>>50

zomg. everything can be written as a simple continued fraction. the continued fraction algorithm guarantees that for rationals you get a finite expansion. for irrationals you get infinite expansion. In the finite case expansions with the last term greater than 1 are unique. in the infinite case any two distinct continued fractions have different values. how do i know this? I am doing my 3rd year uni maths project on simple continued fractions.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-08 23:11

>>51
Then explain how Douglas Adams was able to write jokes in base 13, or the Babylonians to count in base 60. You can have a radix in terms of any integer.
Hence there is no base pi, although if there were π would equal 10.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-09 5:17 (sage)

>>51
GTFO you can arbitrarily choose any base you wish.  Those you mentioned are used more frequently because they are convenient to use.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-09 10:17

>>53
Hence there is no base pi, although if there were π would equal 10.
That you are able to make such an observation should tell you that you can indeed extend the concept of bases to non-integers.

123 in base π would be 1*π^2+2*π^1+3*π^0, or π^2+2π+3. Though you run into problems with selecting allowed digits.

And base φ is kind of interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-09 10:58

>>55
You beat me to it.  Indeed, you can use any number as a base, with quite facinating results.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-12 1:22

>>52

"for irrationals you get infinite expansion"

pi = 1 (base pi). There, I wrote an irrational number in finite expansion :]

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-12 1:27

>>57

Sorry, I just realised someone else had already said that back around >>17.. And that it would be 10 base pi... But I argue it is possible to write in base pi

Name: Astantia 2006-05-13 10:49

Base pi could not be rationally used to depict other numbers though, just instances of pi.

Amazingly enough, in most basic mathematics, we use something similar.  Most equations dealing with pi will be written:

1pi, 2pi, pi^2 etc. 

Beyond counting pi, it really has no uses, because the calculation to configure any number into the base would have to utilize a formula with 'pi' in it.

Base Pi... lol.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-16 15:38

"Yeah they do,  as much as negative numbers exist.  I mean shit, just cause you can't find infinity on the earth, just like you can't find negative pie, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Do negative numbers exist then?  I guess not..."

*shudders* 4chan is a scary place...

Arts students should stay out of /sci/.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-16 21:35

I know the last digit of pi. It's 3. Proove me wrong.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-16 22:43

>>61

Pi is irrational (see lots of proofs for that). Let there exist some digit dn, such that all digits dk k>n are zero. Write pi as

(d0*10^n+d1*10^(n-1)+...+dn)/10^n = p/q, p and q integers. Pi is rational. Contradiction. Last digit dn does not exist. Last digit is not equal to 3.

Name: Anonymous 2006-05-17 1:00

>>61
>>62
pwned

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